I spoke to a large Subaru dismantler today and they verified this. They said the car is basiclly the same as the RS but of course new sheet metal,engine so it should swap right up. Just thought I would post this since I have asked a million times and no one knew. Estimated price on engine,trans etc 3000.00
John,


EDIT:

[This message has been edited by MichiganRS (edited April 19, 2001).]

Everyone knew this as this is well known that any EJ20 (besides the twin turbo one) can be dropped into ANY impreza with the use of factory parts. But, the engine, tranny and the rest of the needed parts will be way more than 3k unless you are very very lucky.

I wish someone would have posted everytime I asked previously. ahh oh well
Thanks,

I'll have a WRX engine and tranny in a couple of years. Just waiting to pay off the car and then start saving up for the transplant.

Snoopy, Ditto to that. I come from the VW world where people talk and do engine swaps all the time. This sounds like a R&R setup like a G60 into a Golf. I can't wait till I drive out of the powertrain Warrenty. Only 53k more till that time.

i don't see the gain in transplanting an EJ20 versus just adding a turbo to your existing EJ25... cost or performance wise. Surely a dealer wouldn't do this and give you a warranty...? (don't call me Sherleyhttp://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif)

Well, just throwing a turbo in will still cost thousands, plus you are still going to need a new clutch, and the fuel map is tricky to get just right. The EJ20 swap already has all the parts properly matched, and I don't think it would cost any more than a good turbo install, especially when you consider the cost of the turbo kit, new computer and clutch.

Plus an EJ20 turbo crate motor would have a factory warranty.

[This message has been edited by jlyttle (edited April 20, 2001).]

Aftermarket turbos on an EJ25 require on an a bit more maintenance than the factory installed turbos on the EJ20.

Besides, if Subaru decided to export the turbo Impreza 2 years ago, this would be the same engine.

Here's a link to a place in Australia that will send you a full turbo charged engine and tranny with all the stuff that is needed for around $3000

http://www.adelaidejap.com.au/parts.htm


Justin

no no.. a transplant is gonna run much much more than just turboing a car. either way, its not just dropping in a new engine/adding a turbo. clutch? no.. you mean clutch and a new set of gears. the stock RS gears suck. they cant hold power at all. ask Shiv. either way, your looking at a good bit of money just in installing stuff if you get it all done for you. the average Joe could probably fumble his way around a turbo install, but from what i hear even seasoned mechanics would hate to do the WRX engine swap.

When I mentioned engine/tranny swap....I thought it included the gears and clutch.

It can be done. Still a lot cheaper than $24,000.

Well let's compare associated costs of doing either- properly:

Turbo 2.5RS
Good Kit, with engine management - $6000 (hopefully including everything, bigger injectors, fuel pump, etc.)
Performance clutch - $400
Hardened Gearset - $3000 +installation

Total so far - $9400 +labour

Engine swap

Engine, Tranny, ECU, harness (basically front clip) Varies, so this is all speculation but maybe around $5000-$6000 for a used example?
Labour, well depends where you go, but I can't imagine more than $2500.

Total $8500 (speculation)

It really depends on what you want, I'd prefer the swap, It's just something I'd be more comfortable with. I also think the RS is geared really short, and wouldn't mind WRX gear ratios if I were to go turbo, It's also easier to bolt the tranny up than it is to disassemble and install (and machine in) a new gearset.

Not to mention all the new parts will be able to be serviced or replaced by subaru if the need arose.

this will all be solved in a years time, I'm sure.

Snoopy, no it's not really cheaper than a $24,000 new WRX. It will destroy the resale value of the car, it will have no warranty (I've already saved $2000 due to my new WRX warranty.), and it will not run correctly until after a lot of tuning is done. The RS is almost a $20,000 car. Put another $8-10K into it and you have a $30,000 USED car that has the poor resale value of a used Subaru Impreza. Not worth it. It would have great performance, but if you want an all around good car that sacrifices some performance for reliability, get the WRX. If you have lots of money to blow and lots of time to spend, and you want to have some fun, go with the RS Turbo.

Jeremy

And what about the smog legality? Here in Illinois, they're pretty strict about that stuff. How are turbo RS folk getting around that?

Kevin

I paid $18,300 for mine. It'll be paid off in two years. By that time, the car's value will be around $8,000 to $13,000? That'll be another $11,000 or $16,000 to buy a WRX?

Nah....I'll do the swap. I have no intention of selling the car after the swap anyway. This body shell is rare compared to most cars so I'll have that at least, plus the WRX engine(what it should have been to begin with).

Who says that an aftermarket turbo has to be a full-on kit making 300 HP? If all you want is to be faster than a stock WRX, you can achieve that for much less than $9k.

Goal = 220HP @ 5psi
$279 kevlar clutch disk
$140 fuel pump
$2700 ASR stage 1 or
$2500 Ludespeed stage 1 or
<$1000 in Legacy junkyard parts
+ labor or install it yourself.

Of course you can add-on from there, with options like gauges, big exhaust, J&S Safeguard, etc., but you don't HAVE to to support 5psi.

So, for $12-14k for a used RS + $4k in mods you can run with the WRX.

And guess what? Except for the clutch, the whole mess unbolts in an afternoon and you're back to stock when it's time to sell or trade for the WRX STi you really want. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif And you can sell your turbo kit right here.

Again, it's what your comfortable with, I already have a car with full suspension upgrades, and It still looks better than the new shell IMHO.

Besides, it's 300 lbs lighter, and I don't care what anyone says, to run a turbo with a high degree of reliability in your car is tough to do without seriously addressing the weak stock RS transmission- no matter what PSI, didn't Larry Ganz blow second gear coasting to a stop on 5 psi?


edit: In terms of smog legality, I believe in most places if you put an engine in your car that is from a newer version, and it goes largely untouched, it shouldn't have a problem with emissions. And even if you toyed with it, some places would consider the car a hot rod/engine swap when it comes time to emmission tests (they do in TO).

James

[This message has been edited by JaiMak (edited April 20, 2001).]

Wouldn't a stock WRX tranny mount up directly in place of the RS tranny w/o modification to the drivelines?

Wouldn't that be cheaper than buying the hardened gears and all the labor of rebuilding the RS transmission?

JaiMak,

Your price estimates are way high for EJ25 turbo kits.

For $6K, ASR can put together a built shortblock with turbo kit and a Haltech or new Link ECU, and be capable of turning out close to 400HP on premium unleaded pump gas.

The estimate on the gears is high for just a gearset. A Chalak full dogbox is $2650 plus shipping. $3000-3500 is about right for an installed set in a tranny.

This is not, however, an apples to apples comparo to swapping in a WRX engine. IMO, an apples to apples would be a low boost EJ25 kit, which, with a Haltech or Wolfe ECU, would run around $3500-4K, and would still give better torque/HP than a WRX swap, and would not mandate a tranny swap.

A modded EJ20 turbo would also require beefy gears, so that adds that same $3500 price to the WRX swap.

Anyone have any idea about swapping in a 2.2L turbo engine from a turbo Legacy? Curious what this would cost and how much effort you think it would be? Could be worth building up?

One alternative is N/A power. Cobb Tuning Power Package Stage 3 will give you 50-60 hp. That would probably make you a little faster than a WRX and is cheaper ($4295) and a hell of a lot more reliable than a turbo.
http://www.cobbtuning.com/impreza/engine-packages.html

[This message has been edited by bryanw (edited April 20, 2001).]

>>>Anyone have any idea about swapping in a 2.2L turbo engine from a turbo Legacy? Curious what this would cost and how much effort you think it would be? Could be worth building up?

Considering that its peak HP (160) is less than an RS and its overall power curve is much lower than the 2.5, what's the point?

I think Larry blew his tranny when he tried going on 7psi. Mind you adam bloom's stage II turbo was running on stock RS tranny for the longest time and so did Sean McElderry (sp?)'s RS. So it varies from car to car and driver to driver. Having said that, a stock WRX would always be easier to go from a 0 standpoint (no RS or WRX). But for those of us who already have a capable Impreza, and want more oomph...well do whatever you wish. Both are great. But I sure don't like the idea of putting on a used engine on my car. Who knows what the previous owner did to it right?

I remember talk of a "plug and play" wiring harness adapter for the EJ20 swap. What ever happened to that project? I beleive a company in Japan was working on this...

-Mike.

Bloom blew his stock trany pretty quick and had an WRX one imported. Then it arrived all messed up and he was wating on the dealer for a while to get it repaired. Then he got it in.

Then he got STi motor and trany and then he sold his car.

Eugene

Don't you guys know where to get the good prices and everything you need? this is my plan as I'm sure it is or will others': wait a couple years for my engine to get out of warrenty and then find a wrecked WRX buy it for a couple of thousand $2k-$4 then swap over everything necasary. Warrenty what it will be the same as buying a used car buyer berware. If you want piece of mind have the engine rebuilt. Engine swaps aren't all that difficult esspecially if the mounting points are the same.

Besides FI motors are a better starting point for upgrading and this is why one would start with the EJ20.

anyone go the cobb tuning route? if it's really cranking out 50hp and reliable, i'll do that till i can afford my ferrari http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Jeff

As BRYANW said about the cobb stage 3, wouldnt this be just as good if not better then a turbo kit?? Any opinions on that?

The Cobb Tuning N/A Stage 3 setup totals out at 5475.00 before install!!! For 50-60 hp, that sucks, I think. A brand new and crated WRX engine wouldn't cost more than this. Install would probably end up being about the same as far as money is concerned...
This is speculation...

http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif RONIN http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif