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Fubaru
05-27-2001, 09:34 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/28/national/28STIC.html

May 28, 2001


The Demise of the Stick Shift Is Accelerating

By PETER T. KILBORN

LEN BURNIE, Md., May 26 — With a wicked grin slicing his jaw, Curtis Preston, 38, turns up the ramp to the highway. Wham! He crushes the accelerator to the floor and holds it there. With his left foot, he pounds down the clutch. With his fist, he slams the gear shift into second, then third, then fourth.

The engine howls, then wheezes, howls and wheezes. In six seconds of a heavy-metal symphony of muscle and motion, Mr. Preston's red 1986 Chrysler Laser hits 60. In 14 seconds, he goes a quarter of a mile.

"When you used that clutch in my '61 Impala, you ended up with a calf that looked like Popeye's," Mr. Preston said. "I believe that rolling a four-speed is an art form. It's something you have to think about. It's not God-given."

But the Laser with its manual transmission is a 20th-century artifact, and so might be most rubber- peeling Popeyes.

The true clutch-equipped, stick- shifting manual transmission — even today called the standard transmission — has shrunk to a mere toy. Six decades since the debut of the Oldsmobile Hydra-Matic, the demise of the manual transmission has accelerated, forced along by stop-and- go highways, brutal commutes, hard- to-handle cell phones and, most recently, make-believe five-speeds that do not even have clutches.






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"I wouldn't say it's necessarily our objective to phase out the stick," said Matt Kester, a spokesman for General Motors Powertrain, the G.M. division that makes engines and transmissions.

"It's a cultural issue," Mr. Kester said. "It's just that much more work" to operate a stick shift.

Other developments are undermining the stick. Cars with automatic transmissions usually cost $500 to $1,000 more than stick-shift cars, but that gap is shrinking. And manual transmissions used to be peppier and more fuel efficient than their automatic counterparts. Now, automatics, governed by sophisticated computers, are burning gas more wisely. "That fuel economy penalty is largely disappearing," said Paul Taylor, chief economist at the National Automobile Dealers Association in Washington.

Hertz, Avis and National no longer carry cars with manual transmissions. State motor vehicle regulators do not require training in stick shifts, and high school driver education programs do not offer it. Some driving schools do, but they charge a premium for it.

At the extremes of the marketplace, the $9,000-to-$15,000 bare- bones low-powered cars and sporty $40,000-and-up high-performance road burners, drivers can still readily find manual transmissions.

But by last year, according to Ward's Automotive Reports, manual transmissions accounted for just 8.7 percent of cars made in the United States, down from 12.4 percent in 1996.

Two decades ago, 20 to 25 percent of all new vans had manual transmissions, the Environmental Protection Agency reports. Now none do. Ten percent of sport utility vehicles have stick shifts, compared with 40 percent of similar vehicles in 1975. Throaty Mustangs, Camaros and Trans Ams, a new Lincoln LS and a Volvo V70 have them. But they have disappeared from popular full-size cars like the Ford Taurus and the Pontiac Bonneville and from all Buicks. Last year, Chrysler dropped them from the Jeep Cherokee.

Curt Preston works at the mid- Atlantic's high temple of transmission service and repair, Glen Burnie Transmissions, a 40-year-old business on Ritchie Highway in Glen Burnie, a suburb south of Baltimore. Chain operators like Aamco are bigger, but Marvin Keyser, 72, the owner and co-founder, says his suppliers tell him the shop, with its 24 bays and 50 mechanics, is the biggest in the nation under one roof.

The mechanics here say an automatic is still no match for a stick. "You can keep control of the power better," Mr. Preston said. "You can use the engine to pull it down" — slowing the car by shifting to a lower gear rather than relying solely on the brakes and wearing them down.

"They also last a lot longer than automatics," Mr. Preston said. Repair usually entails little more than replacing a clutch, at a cost of $100 to $300. Today's much more complex electronic-controlled automatics require more work, typically costing $900 or more.

But cars with manual transmissions have declined to less than 4 percent of all those the shop sees. Even the mechanics here prefer automatics. Only 10 of the 50 drive stick shifts. One of the two who specialize in servicing sticks, Jack Bell, drives a Ford 150 pickup with an automatic transmission.

Until he bought that, he said, "I had three or four cars with sticks." But on the highway outside Baltimore, he said, "they're terrible."

"You go two feet, push the clutch, go two feet, push the clutch," he added.

The dominance of automatic transmissions is an American phenomenon, Mr. Kester of General Motors said. They have captured only 12 percent of the European market. Europeans drive cars. Americans eat, drink and live in them during ever- longer commutes. They also talk, and the impossibility of shifting, steering and dialing a cell phone has further imperiled the stick.

"The European mind-set," Mr. Kester, "is A, you can't get good mileage with an automatic, and B, only weenies drive them."

"I don't want to be stereotyping," he added, "but Europeans prefer the acoustic acceleration experience, whereas for Americans the big selling point is a quiet car."

Stop in the automobile dealerships stretched along the six lanes of Ritchie Highway, and you can feel the stick's doom. One dealer carries the Kia Rio, a bare-bones Korean car, with a manual transmission. But it appeals only to the thinnest wallets. It gets 32 miles a gallon on the highway, and at a price of $9,390, less a rebate of $500, it is the cheapest, and sparest, automobile in America.

To shoppers who come in looking for manual transmissions, Rick Melzer, a salesman at Bob Bell Ford, which also sells Korean Daewoos, said: "First I would say, `Why do you want a stick?' Sticks are popular with 16- and 18-year-old kids." But mostly for reasons of economic necessity. The least expensive car Mr. Melzer sells is a Daewoo with a stick, which goes for $9,900.

At Tate Chrysler Plymouth, nearly all the 40 Jeep Wranglers have manual transmissions. Jack Hodges, a salesman, attributes that to the car's unique appeal to young buyers who drive them on beaches — and also to their price, typically below $15,000. But once buyers get older, and are able to afford more expensive machines, Mr. Hodges said, they are happy to leave the stick behind.

He cites Chrysler's PT Cruiser, a nostalgia car with a big toothy grill and boxy rear that would not be out of place in a 50's drag race.

But there is a limit to consumers' retro impulses. The Cruisers have been flying out the door, except for one. "It's a stick shift," Mr. Hodges said, "and the only reason it's here is that it's stick shift."

Crouching like a tiger in the showroom's prime spot is a car that does have a manual transmission — of sorts. It is a $47,000 midnight blue Chrysler Prowler, a descendant of the low-slung hot rods that had manual transmissions. In a cruel twist, though, the Prowler is equipped with a technology that could spell the end of the true manual transmission.

The gearbox looks as if it has a stick. But the car has no clutch. Drivers can push the stick from gear to gear, allowing them some of the control of a manual transmission, but they can also slip it into automatic. And if they rev it up too high, the automatic kicks in and slows the engine down.

This is what Chrysler calls the AutoStick, introduced five years ago and now appearing in the company's Sebring and Stratus lines. Over the last three years, all the German cars have introduced variations — even Porsche, which stunned the hard- driving faithful three years ago when it introduced something it calls the Tiptronic. It is now offered in Audis and Volkswagens.

"What you have is a clutchless, driver-influenced transmission that you up- and downshift with the press or a button and movement of the shifter," explained James Sanfilippo, executive vice president of Automotive Marketing Consultants in Warren, Mich. "At first, dyed-in-the-wool Porschephiles wouldn't have it. But they're finding it a joy to drive."

Mr. Sanfilippo calls these transmissions "manumatics."

Now they, too, have a challenger. In its new and highly fuel-efficient Civic HX, Honda has introduced the "continuously variable transmission." "You get no sensation at all of gears changing," Mr. Sanfilippo said.

For all that, said Mr. Keyser of Glen Burnie Transmissions, there will always be a place for the manual transmission. "You'll still need them in the bigger trucks," he said.

ChrisW
05-27-2001, 10:10 PM
FUD

grimlock
05-27-2001, 10:13 PM
You can have my stickshift when you pry it from my COLD DEAD HAND!!!

MrHorspwer
05-27-2001, 10:25 PM
If find it very disturbing that Americans can no longer put there cell phones down to change gears... although I am sure there are some who still try.

Shinji N
05-27-2001, 10:37 PM
My name is Shinji; yes, I used to be an automatic abuser, but hallelujah! I have seen the light!

Oh wait, (/me throws out stock shifter sticks in kartboy shifter) Hallelujah! I have seen Heaven!

North Ursalia
05-27-2001, 10:53 PM
<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">My first car was an auto. I will never go back to one again unless someone cuts off my left leg and my right arm http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif.

Brian
AIM: captaindamorgan ICQ: 84483950
http://ravensblade.cjb.net
Come See The Magic World Inside the Abandoned Refrigerator!</FONT f>

Sanguine
05-27-2001, 11:14 PM
I will never go back to one again unless someone cuts off my left leg and my right arm


nah, you'd just move to a RHD country =)

North Ursalia
05-27-2001, 11:46 PM
<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">You know, you're probably right. My dad is from England, so I am technically a British citizen... http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

Brian
AIM: captaindamorgan ICQ: 84483950
http://ravensblade.cjb.net
NASIOC: Now with 20% more caffeine!</FONT f>

asusimpreza
05-28-2001, 12:04 AM
Well, a female friend of mine drives an Integra TypeR and says she's changing to an auto. Reason? Because she's tired of having a huge right wrist, haha.


Ben

Jessie James
05-28-2001, 12:31 AM
I just got my race shifter from LevelTen, so now I have both an automatic AND a stick.

Beat that! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

DoomEquation
05-28-2001, 12:36 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm still laughing at the yuppie "Autostick" that has been forced on so many capable cars (Lexus IS, Acura TL typeS) Oh what a sad world it is when we are so damn lazy we want the "performance of a stick in an auto"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

this explains why my wee lil 4 cylander hath smitten 6 cylander variable valve timed monsters chained up by a pathetic slush box.
hey make all new cars auto......ill have a 20 year old my00 turbo RS that will own the roads. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

HondaH8er
05-28-2001, 01:01 AM
I've owned 4 cars (75 Datsun 710, 85 VW Golf, 91 Chevy Camaro, 00 Impreza RS), and only one the Camaro was an automatic. True, it was nice to drive in traffic, but boring anywhere else. Just pushing the gas pedal to go is for people who just want to get from one place to another. Traded that sucka in for my Subie, and even though I wanted the BRP, the only one I found was an auto, but they had my silver in the stick, and silver is faster, anyways http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif If I can help it, I'm not getting an auto in anything else again, unless it's just a big-ol' cruiser!

finksta
05-28-2001, 01:07 AM
for you guys that think stick is faster than auto.autos are proven to be quicker in the 1/4.think about it,a computer can shift faster than man.i have had a couple sticks ,a eclipse and a cobra and i love sticks but i hate sticks in traffic and i love those 5 grand power brake launches you can do with an auto.maybe thats why all your pro drag racing is done with auto trannies.

Kostamojen
05-28-2001, 01:33 AM
Notice that its mostly the American Car Manufacturers that are making the automatics all over the place http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif (especially SUV's and Minivans)

Red-Impreza
05-28-2001, 01:46 AM
I gotta' go with grimlock on this one.

http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif

Godmal
05-28-2001, 01:55 AM
First of all, sticks will always be better than automatics. Second, sticks will always be faster because of the better control over the power band + ability to launch better. Third, sticks will always get better gas milage because of the control over the power band/ RPM. Fourth, I've driven a lot of "manumatics" and they all suck. Not one of them has a solid shift where you want it to be. If you rev to redline, they will shift for you before you get there, and they never shift exactly where you want them to. Might as well just leave it in auto and put it in sport mode.
Also, sticks are just plain more fun!

Sorry about the seriousness of this post, it is out of character for me, its just the way I feel. Manumatics are nothing more than marketing ploys. Now, if they start making "manumatics" like the Ferrari F1 system, now you're talking! Snappy paddle shifting would be very cool.

bemani
05-28-2001, 02:13 AM
"The European mind-set," Mr. Kester, "is A, you can't get good mileage with an automatic,
and B, only weenies drive them."


I'll drink to that.

wrxboi
05-28-2001, 02:28 AM
I have had 2 autos, 2 sticks and now my WRX 5 Sp. Will never go back to the autos, just too dam slow and boring. Plus its hella more fun!

kaos200
05-28-2001, 02:40 AM
I traded in an AUTO RS to get a 5spd RS...
so yeah I agree with Grimlock...


You can have my stickshift when you pry it from my COLD DEAD HAND!!!

Fred Zaplitny
05-28-2001, 03:51 AM
sticks rule.....

auto's suck!

Technic
05-28-2001, 03:58 AM
Almost every WRX I have seen on a dealer lot or in their website inventory was an automatic. What does that tell you?

(it tells me all the sticks were sold)

Patrick Olsen
05-28-2001, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by finksta:
for you guys that think stick is faster than auto.autos are proven to be quicker in the 1/4.think about it,a computer can shift faster than man....maybe thats why all your pro drag racing is done with auto trannies.

Yes, when you start to talk about hard-core drag racing (I'll say 10sec and quicker) an automatic is quicker. It has nothing to do with the shifting speed of the transmission, though. It's all about traction. A torque converter kind of cushions the blow to the drivetrain, allowing you to put more power to the wheels at launch without blowing off the tires. You can't duplicate the same effect with a clutch unless you want to absolutely fry your clutch.

With all that said, if you compare production cars, manuals are always quicker than automatics. Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Subarus, BMWs, Porsches, whatever, you run 'em side-by-side down the 1/4mi and the stick will win every time by a few tenths of a second. Every article I've ever read about a Porsche equipped with the Tiptronic has commented about how it is a few steps behind the manual in acceleration.

I'm all for the "real" clutchless manual transmissions (ie Ferrari's F1 paddle shift option on the 355 and now the 360 Modena). I just picked up a CAR magazine the other day and apparently in Europe the Toyota MR2 Spyder is available with a sequential clutchless manual, and the new Aston Martin Vanquish supercar will also have a clutchless manual. Who knows, maybe a Celica GTS with the same system as the MR2 Spyder is on the horizon? And if Toyota does it, others would follow suit.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

subymamma
05-28-2001, 09:10 AM
I drove a stick for almost 30 years. It messed up my left foot and it was either live with the pain or get an automatic. Would I rather drive a stick. Yeah. Am I glad there is a coice? You bet.

Don't be quick to judge or look down on those who must drive automatics. You may be in that place some day, too. Then I'll be there to say, "I told you so!"

WonderDude
05-28-2001, 10:00 AM
side-issue: ya can't push-start an automatic! if ya ever have a battery "issue," it's the difference between major inconvenience (calling a tow truck, late to work, etc.) and one minute of 'ol fashioned elbow grease! push-starting has saved my azz more than a couple times in 16 years of driving.

also, sticks train ya to pay more attention to yer car and the road. ya just don't have the opportunity to space out, flip thru all yer CDs, or get too wrapped up in a cell-phone chat.

Beanboy
05-28-2001, 10:32 AM
Hmm, good time to mention my site www.standardshift.com? (http://www.standardshift.com?) College project of mine that hasn't been updated in a long time. Articles like these give me the kick in the ass I need, tehe.

-Beanboy

jmott
05-28-2001, 10:51 AM
camaros and firebirds are not always quicker at drag racing.

the GM autos work nicely and they seem to get the same times.

Fords are another matter entirely.

anyway, autos drive me mad in the turns, and from a stop.

cant have that, no no.

HamFist
05-28-2001, 11:26 AM
Personally, I love the feeling of all four tires chirping when I shift hard into a turn. Ask, JJ! The wheel jerks on the one-two shift. Go grimlock! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif G

Retsyn
05-28-2001, 11:47 AM
I have never bought a new car with an automatic and I doubt that I ever will (unless given no choice). I had a couple of crap cars before/in college only one of them was an auto, and I HATED that f'n car. '76 Monte Carlo. What a piece of crap. Beggars can't be choosers though and it was only 300.00...

rsholland
05-28-2001, 06:53 PM
A somewhat amusing side effect of all of this, is that more and more trucking companies are now ordering trucks with automatics, because they can't find enough drivers who can drive a vehicle with a manual transmission.

I do think the 5-speed manual's days are numbered. I do see a future for 6-speeds in high=performance sports cars though.

Bob

Fubaru
05-28-2001, 07:43 PM
The only problem I have with this trend
is that it depresses re-sale value of any of my cars. I had a hard time selling my 5spd Forester when it seemed like 9 out of 10 people calling wanted to find out if it were automatic tranny.

GC8Monkey
05-28-2001, 07:50 PM
To each their own. Manual trannies are more fun for sure but to some they are a hassle.
I still think the manuals today are nothing compared to older cars.My 68 beatle with its crappy seat and pedals coming through the floor,now that is a manual. If you can drive one of those well, you can drive anycar.

HamFist
05-28-2001, 08:34 PM
What is it that's so sexy about a woman who can drive a stick and slide a car sideways? Some part of that is a turn on http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif I know a girl that does that in her VW bug. What was fun was watching that concentrated look turn into a smile. G

AllWheelsDriven
05-28-2001, 08:51 PM
Funny how that works with women...My friends and sister are trying to set me up on dates and the first thing I want to know is can she drive a stick and is she on a first name basis with her body shop? Worse yet does she get a Christmas card from them? Now if she is on a first name basis with any Washington State Patrolmen/women...now thats extra-cool http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Mike

Now if she knows what the 555 on the back of my car is all about....major bonus points!!

Dave99
05-28-2001, 09:02 PM
Wow, did that article ever spark a debate!

Despite the author's allegations that the manual transmission is only a step away from extinction, this latest rash of commentary would suggest that said author has his head shoved way up his ass!

Give me a break - not everybody needs to yap and shove bon-bons down while crawling along the congested freeway! There's more to owning a car than gridlock. I don't think that the vast majority of folks are simply A to B drivers (read as glazed zombies at the wheel). I believe there are a lot of people who still enjoy the sensation of a real drive along a twisty road and you'll never substitute that feeling with a "tiptronic" style auto. This technology has only recently invaded the marketplace. I think it's a little premature to assume it's here to stay based on initial sales penetration. Once people live with it for a while and dispell that novelty, I think the people really in the know will return to the stick where they belong and correct this ridiculous market imbalance.

Dave.

tcs007
05-28-2001, 09:37 PM
Well, if it makes you feel any better, when I bought my car, I discontinued my cell phone.http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gifhttp://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gifhttp://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif
I hate auto's. They take all the fun out of driving.
On the other hand, if I had the money, I'd buy a Ferrari with the paddle shifter, just cause it can shift faster than I can. (.15 sec. between shifts)

JaiMak
05-28-2001, 09:42 PM
I have to say that the article is pretty obvious. The big decline in manuals are in trucks and vans, no big deal.

But if you've noticed lately, there has been something of a resurgence in small, sporty MANUAL tranny cars, many sporting 6 speed trannys (SE-R Spec V, Celica, New STI, etc.). Think back a couple of years, how many cars could you get with a 6 speed?

Then there is the previously unavailable in a manual tranny cars- CL type S, IS300, that are now being or going to be offered with manual trannies. I wouldn't worry about the demise, the market has just readjusted itself.

WonderDude
05-28-2001, 10:26 PM
fubaru,

if you buy a WRX and are concerned about resale value, buy the stick! manual WRXs are in high demand because the typical WRX buyer is a stick driver. not to dis anybody who bought an auto WRX, but you see plenty more of them on the dealer lots. wagons too http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif this trend will definitely continue on the resale market.

the forester is a different story because the typical buyer prefers automatics.

allow me to use possibly offensive stereotypes to illusrate my point:

forester buyer: meek college professor who wears tweed jackets with leather elbow patches; views his car as a practical means to transport him to where he needs to go (prefers auto tranny)

WRX buyer: college professor's intense son who wears adidas and tatoos; views his car as a performance machine that is fun to just drive around and sometimes get to places he wants to go, but cannot shake all of his practicality-based upbringing (prefers manual)

before anyone gets all freaky about my hopefully humorous example, please note that this example does not intentionally reflect anybody's actual situation...except, uhm...me. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Kostamojen
05-28-2001, 10:48 PM
Note:

Manual will not ALWAYS be better than Auto, nor are ALL current Autos slower than the Manuals...

Take CVT's for instance, especially in the new A4.

Heck, even indy-cars with CVT are 2-3 seconds faster per lap EVERY lap than the manual of the same car...

Why? Constant peak power http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif Gotta love it!

I just wish I could get CVT in a rex http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif

Fubaru
05-28-2001, 11:03 PM
WonderDude,

That's hilarious... I'm trading my Forester in for a WRX. I think the stereotypical Forester owner is female though.

I agree that the type of car will dictate which tranny is more popular. I'm sure glad that the 5spd WRX is $1000 less than the automatic. The 5spd WRX should have better re-sale than auto.

OldWRXr
05-29-2001, 01:01 AM
Out of 11 cars only 2 of mine have been autos. One wasn't a choice, but a hand me down.
There's a big difference between riding & driving. Since the article came from "The Times" it is apparent the writer is in bumper to bumperland too often.
If I want a cup of coffee or talk on the phone I'll stop at a diner. I drive during "rush-hour" 1% of the time, so an auto is just boring.

Slvrblt
05-29-2001, 01:09 AM
I'm of the belief that certain cars should not even have an automatic offered in the options, and yes they all happen to be "sports" cars or even just sporty cars. but driving stick is definately becoming a lost art. glad I can handle such a thing, even though I've only been doing so for the past year or so of my driving life, I still think I do better than most that have been driving much longer. oh well my 1/2 cent. (that's all I can afford)

speed safely http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif

Brian

twend
05-29-2001, 02:30 AM
CVTs are not auto transmisions.Any way, the ones currently on the market can not handle much power. If and when they can make them stronger with out adding much weight or robbing to much power, I belive they will replace both stick and dogmatics. Infinite gear ratios means your always in the power (sweet spot) of the rpm range.

micah
05-29-2001, 07:01 AM
The belt-driven CVT's do have trouble handling much more than 100-150 hp (Justy, Civic).

Some of the big makers are working on toroidal CVT's. These things are sick. I have to run but do a web search on Toroidal CVT. Nissan is one of the frontrunners I believe.

Imagine having your engine at its peak power point the whole time you're accelerating, and at it's exact peak economy point the whole time you're cruising.

Those "autostick" slushboxes are lame. There is a review of the IS300 on formen.ign. com and the guy refers to the tranny as being "straight from F1". Hmmm, I don't recall seeing too many F1 cars with torque convertors... DOPE.

cheers
mbs

Mike Smith
05-29-2001, 11:21 AM
I have been saying for years that the automatic transmission is the one thing most responsible for the general decay of driving ability in the U.S. The less involved you are with the operation of your vehicle, the less skill you use in it's operation.

"For all that, said Mr. Keyser of Glen Burnie Transmissions, there will always be a place for the manual transmission. "You'll still need them in the bigger trucks," he said."

Big trucks have had auto trannies available for quite awhile now, so that statement kinda blows the credibility of the rest of the article. (Not that the NY Times has much credibility in the automotive department, anyway)

96Lconversion
05-29-2001, 12:21 PM
LONG LIVE THE STICK!!! I WILL NEVER OWN AN AUTOMATIC!!!! NEVER!!!!!!

Ryouga
05-29-2001, 02:36 PM
This article is nothing new. The Detroit News ran an article about this a long time ago. I think Car and Driver touched upon it either in their editorials or in the letters section a while back.

Yeah, the numbers say for the U.S. market as a whole, manuals are on the way out, but so long as it makes financial sense for manufacturers to cater to that part of the market that likes shifting their own gears, well, long live the manual tranny. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

DN
05-29-2001, 03:00 PM
From the land of bloated truck worship,v-8's stuffed into garden tractors(mustang) and poorly trained/skilled drivers I'd have to say I live on the wrong side of the pond.The love for automatics in the US of A is perfectly understandable after all how can you floss your teeth while shifting a manual?Yes,I've seen it with my own eyes.

David

RigdenZW
05-29-2001, 03:30 PM
Heh. I have a (get ready for this) a 1950's navy jeep with a chevy engine, ford clutch, and a jeep transmission.. talk about fun driving a stick. Or should I say three sticks. 3 gears + reverse.. then throw in hi and low.. and direct and overdrive.. for a possibility of a 12 gears combinations. (Did I mention that you have to get out and turn the front wheel locks to engage 4wd?) hehe

mmMMMmmm..

http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

P2x
05-29-2001, 03:58 PM
Well I don't think there will be a demise of stick shift.. but there will probably be a transition to something like this.. http://www.bmwworld.com/models/config/m3_smg.htm

harrydog
05-29-2001, 06:54 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with the European's.
Also, if a car salesman asked me why I wanted a manual, I'd ask the manager for a different salesman or go to another dealer. What arrogance.

rsholland
05-30-2001, 01:47 AM
As I mentioned above, I think 6-speed manuals will be the big thing as far as sports cars are concerned. The Acuru RSX S-Type will only come with a 6-speed. Same with the S2000. Of course, those cars have torque bands narrower than a test tube. Also, the new Acura CL/TL models will be coming with a 6-speed option shortly. So, 6-speed, IMHO, are where it's at for the performance-minded.

However, I think it's kind of funny seeing a Viper with a 6-speed. It could probably do just fine with one gear. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Bob

Yotsuya
05-30-2001, 01:50 AM
To read this article, you would think Honda recently invented the CVT, rather than it being around for decades.

I did like the point that only 12% of European cars are automatics, and I would be even more interested if they looked at other car-blanketed areas (particularly Australia and Asia) to see the typical transmission selection. Even GM knows better than to run that automatic crap in Europe. If they were to bring something like the Astra turbo over here they would have serious competition to go against the Focus/Sentra/Civic types. The Cavalier and its cousins are way to old, and unlike the Integra, unable to rely on performance to keep them going.

But I'm sure they'll just spend more money making their pick-ups look like cheap plastic APCs.

ba_feitl
05-30-2001, 01:59 AM
Hmm, good time to mention my site www.standardshift.com? (http://www.standardshift.com?) College project of mine that hasn't been updated in a long time. Articles like these give me the kick in the ass I need, tehe.


Yeah ... and I notive that the i-club is NOT on your links page ! I think it need updating now ...

Brad

hsolo
05-31-2001, 10:00 PM
Sorry for the late reply to this thread......I've been away on business. I don't usually bump messages, but I feel the need to comment on this one. Automatics are prevalent in the USA, and almost exclusively to the USA. I am still amazed every time I see a pick-up with an auto transmission.....that is just not something that is available in my original home country!! Give me a manual transmission eight days a week!! The simple question is: Do you drive solely to get to your destination? Or do you drive for the sheer thrill of driving? As a previous post mentioned....those who are looking to buy a WRX enjoy driving.....hence the number of autos left on the dealer lot!