I am thinking about buying a 4 door Impreza and am looking for something under US$10G, preferably under $8G.

I would be "upgrading" from a zippy 91 Mazda Miata which has run like a dream for the past two years. It is now almost at 150,000 miles but the main reason is that I need a backseat for a baby.

So what I would like from you is advice on what I should be looking for. My understanding is that the 2.2L engine added a needed boost of power - what year did that option become available? Also, are any older Imprezas turbocharged from the factory? How much money/work to add a turbocharger if it's possible? Are they easy to work on? Could I do my own oil changes? How reliable has your/your friends Impreza been? The Miata was super-reliable and I really don't want something that will require many visits to a garage or lots of money spent on replacing parts. Would the wagon be a better model than the sedan? I would be thinking of taking it offroad in it's future at some time, possibly rallying it.

What other advice/opinions do you have for me?

Jon

C'mon. You're all reading the post but not answering :)

If the Subie's are such great cars, tell me about it. If not, I can only look elsewhere...

Jon

The only imprezas in America that are turbocharged are the new WRX, or old Imprezas with aftermarket kits that cost about $4K and up. For $10K you could buy a used four door Impreza L and work from there. There are members of this board that have done that. However, you should then be prepared to put money and time into the car to make it badass. There is the B-Spec car, which is a 1993 Impreza, but that car has significant work done to it. If four doors are a must, then get an old version of the Impreza and start pouring the rest of your money into converting the car into a beast. If you can live with two doors, why not try a 1998 RS? If your lucky, they can be had for $10K.
Well enough with my mumbling, good luck with what you choose to do.

Thanks jImp for some feedback. For convenience sake, I think it needs to be a four door as it will double as a family car and two doors can be pain for child seats :)

So how does a stock Impreza feel/run? I mean I am guessing it handles great with the AWD so that wouldn't need improvements. The 2.2L engine should be enough for starters right - what year was this introduced? I don't have a turbo on the Miata so it's not like I have huge horses right now, it's just a very agile car and the smaller engine seems big enough for the small car. My thinking of replacing with a Subie is the AWD will give somewhat similar/better handling in a bigger car. Right/wrong?

Anyone owned/driven a Miata and Impreza want to share their opinions on this?

Jon

In the late '80s and early 90's you could get a few diffrent turboed subarus. the GL-10 had a turbo option and so did some of the legasy cars, in your price rang you might be able to find a RX sport it had a 1.8 turbo with AWD and a lowrange transfer case. you can do the impreza thing but it will cost more than that.
you MIGHT be able to find a used RS for less than $15000 but you would have to look alot and it is still a big MIGHT.

So if I am set on a Impreza, it will have to be NA to start with and if it means that much to me, I could add an aftermarket turbo later.

Back to some of my other questions then, how is the older Impreza's AWD - reliable? Nice handling? I mean I watch the WRX commercial on Speedvision and go wow! but I am sure the WRX is beefed up considerably from say a 96 Impreza Sedan? So how much of a difference is there?

Jon

The 2.2 litre engine is lively and fun, but missing a bit off of the 2.5RS. Pre 1996 it output 135ish hp, 1997 and later about 145ish.

The AWD systems are basically the same for every Subaru, except that the manuals and automatics have very different center diffs. 2000-2001 2.5RSes got limited slip rear diffs.

I've been driving my 1996 Impreza LX for a couple of years now, and I'm still happy, even if I do want more power. I replaced the clutch with a Primitive copper clutch when the old one went out. I replaced the suspension with a used RS suspension when I blew a strut in a rallycross.

Before those two mods, the car handled great. Now it handles even better. I just took second overall in a local rallycross (with rally tires, too, heh heh heh). The leader had a fully rally prepped Galant VR-4, and the guy right behind me (conekiller) had a 2002 WRX with rally tires.

The 2.2 is still torquey and pretty nice, and the suspension is okay if it hasn't gone south. Basically, if it is all you can afford, don't be afraid.

The rest of the Impreza community will shun you though. :)

The 2.2 litre engine is lively and fun, but missing a bit off of the 2.5RS. Pre 1996 it output 135ish hp, 1997 and later about 145ish.

Good to hear. So the 96 is still at 135hp then. Still plenty for most driving needs though.


The AWD systems are basically the same for every Subaru, except that the manuals and automatics have very different center diffs. 2000-2001 2.5RSes got limited slip rear diffs.

Ok so fill me in about the difference (pros/cons) on the different diffs. I would be looking for a manual most likely because a) I prefer manual and b) I think you can get a bit more out of them.


I've been driving my 1996 Impreza LX for a couple of years now, and I'm still happy, even if I do want more power. I replaced the clutch with a Primitive copper clutch when the old one went out. I replaced the suspension with a used RS suspension when I blew a strut in a rallycross.

Before those two mods, the car handled great. Now it handles even better. I just took second overall in a local rallycross (with rally tires, too, heh heh heh). The leader had a fully rally prepped Galant VR-4, and the guy right behind me (conekiller) had a 2002 WRX with rally tires.

The 2.2 is still torquey and pretty nice, and the suspension is okay if it hasn't gone south. Basically, if it is all you can afford, don't be afraid.

The rest of the Impreza community will shun you though. :) [/B]

Hehe, I'm starting to see the WRX and RS cliques as I browse the boards :) Oh well, so be it. So it's sounding like a 96 Impreza is a decent piece of automobile machinery and with a bit of work can be made into a really nice machine. Thanks for the post jmullan.

Some unanswered questions still: How easy is it to work on yourself? How reliable overall are they? I'm sure that varies for each person but generally speaking are they reliable cars or do they spend a lot of time getting parts fixed/replaced etc?

Jon

As far as working on the car yourself, I would say that this is probably the easiest car to work on! You dont even need a jack to change the oil!!! Pretty much everything is right there in front of you and most maintenance things you could do yourself, if you have some knowledge of how things work. If you cant tell where the dip stick goes, have someone else work on the car so you dont screw up. As far as reliability, I think they're great. Also, in recent Consumers reports, Subaru is #4 in reliability. Not to knock your Mazda, but I dont think that they were even in the top ten.

Hope this helps,
Danny

As far as working on the car yourself, I would say that this is probably the easiest car to work on! You dont even need a jack to change the oil!!! Pretty much everything is right there in front of you and most maintenance things you could do yourself, if you have some knowledge of how things work. If you cant tell where the dip stick goes, have someone else work on the car so you dont screw up. As far as reliability, I think they're great. Also, in recent Consumers reports, Subaru is #4 in reliability. Not to knock your Mazda, but I dont think that they were even in the top ten.


Great, just what I wanted to hear about the ease of maintenance. Sounds ideal if I don't even need to get the ramps out to change the oil...

As for the Miata, I can't vouch for the reliability report but I believe the 91 model was #3 all around in CR after Accord and Camry I think it was. That was a strong reason why I bought it in the first place as it was such a solid performer. I am hoping to replace it with something equally as solid but also something fun to drive.

Anyone know how expensive repairs are? That's one thing someone said to me about Subies is that they are expensive to repair?

Jon

Jon, maintenance is pretty cheap. The oil filter is like $5, spark plugs are $5.50 for all 4, fuel filter is $25 from Subaru, but you can get it cheaper aftermarket which I wouldnt recomend. The stuff for this car fairly cheap, as compared to say Toyota or Honda. As far as aftermarket "performance" parts, they still arent too bad, but not as cheap as say Honda cause its not as popular.

Danny

The 2.2L engine will be all you need if you are happy running 13 sec flat in the 1/4 mile. If you want a wagon search for Kevin Thomas. He had a wild wagon (by the way all wagons, except for the new 2002 models, have the 2.2 L engines) that ran a 13.03 with turbo and NOS. This was on his car for a long time, which also goes to show you that the Imprezas are very reliable.

Welp, for reliability...

sold my '86 GL wagon with 186000 miles on it (of course, it needed some work, but still ran well)...loved that thing, you could beat the crap out of it and it still kept a'goin'

my '93 Impreza L AWD (the first year produced) has 122000+ miles and still running strong...nothing done but normal maint. (fuel filter just replaced, brakes, oil changes, etc.)

and now 2k2 WRX with almost 1000 miles on it...plan on keeping that'n for a long time

Power-wise...go with at least the 2.2 (came out around '95 or so)...my '93 is the 1.8 and is very under-powered. Perfect for gas mileage and these damn Michigan winters though!!!

The 2.2L engine will be all you need if you are happy running 13 sec flat in the 1/4 mile. If you want a wagon search for Kevin Thomas. He had a wild wagon (by the way all wagons, except for the new 2002 models, have the 2.2 L engines) that ran a 13.03 with turbo and NOS. This was on his car for a long time, which also goes to show you that the Imprezas are very reliable.


Ah well. I'm not so much into the fast quartermiles or 0-60s though it's nice to have something that gets up and goes. I am more interested in handling and ability to take a corner at a good pace and not feel like you're gonna roll. From what it sounds like, with stiff enough suspension, the Impreza will handle just great. I guess I really ought to go test drive one and see what it feels like. Then again, while I'm at it, I should just test drive the WRX at the dealers but I guess that would make everything else seem like a let down, including the Miata (-:


Power-wise...go with at least the 2.2 (came out around '95 or so)...my '93 is the 1.8 and is very under-powered. Perfect for gas mileage and these damn Michigan winters though!!!


Is there any other stock engine with more the 2.2 on the Imprezas? Apart from the Turbo?

Travman, thanks for the info on the reliability you've experienced, hope you're enjoying the WRX. Danny thank you for the maintenance and parts info, sounds reasonable enough and provided I don't have an off and wreck something, it sounds like I wont need to get many extra parts except for aftermarket stuff if I wanted to add something...

Well folks, it's sounding good. Is the 2001 the earliest WRX available over here? I'll guess there are few earlier ones around but the 2001 (or is it the 2002) is the first one to be brought in by Subaru for the general populace right? I don't think I'll find a WRX under $10 grand anyways but one can dream (-;

Jon

You're not going to find an RS under 10,000, no way-no how espc. in Denver and other high-value areas. (BTW where are you from- Subies in Denver hold value extremely well, as in other areas of the country). My best bet to you would be this:

Look for a 94-95ish Wagon :), with a 2.2 and turbo the snot out of it. :D:D:D:D:D

JJ

Own oil changes? Subaru couldn't have made it any easier! Just crawl under there and you'll see what I mean!

jonny_boy: Sent you a PM.

I've got a 98 L and l've driven the Miata. The Miata feels lighter, and is. The Miata in stock trim is definitely a quicker handling machine than the Impreza in stock trim, however for about 400.00 bucks worth of struts, (KYB AGX) and a 100.00 dollar 18mm or 20mm rear sway bar the Impreza can come pretty darn close. Though you still have the power on tendency to oversteer slightly on the edge. I've done those mods to my car and they are the best mods I've done so far. The AGXs aren't as flexible in their tuning or as stout as something like a 50mm coil over setup, but they are very nice.

I think you will be very pleased with an earlier model impreza with 2.2. The addition of a CAI right off the bat will help you the engines ability to breath greatly. The power on a stock phase 1 (before model year 99) 2.2 litre pretty much falls off after 5grand, the addition of a CAI will keep it flat up to redline. Not a huge increase in performance, but it certainly makes the engine feel more spirited. The 4 door Imprezas actually came with beefier brakes, than the 2doors. The overall weight difference isn't that significant between the two either.

Personally I wouldn't sweat getting an RS, not that I don't like them, I just think you will satisfied with the L. If I had it to do over again, I'd have looked for an older Impreza than the 98 I got, and put the extra money into performance parts. Ahh hindsite.

And the few times that you do actually have to work on the car, you will find that everything is really easy to work on and get to. Ahhh love that rally heritage.

My personal opinion (it may be biased) after test driving three seperate WRXs, is that stock, they don't handle as well as my slightly modded L. I think I can feel the extra weight, and the car just didn't transition as solidly as I liked, however I'm sure it can be made to handle with a few suspension mods. I know the WRX has a lower roll center on the rear control arms, however if the weight transfer is too quick things still seem to come unsettled. Not uncrontrollable, just unnerving. JMHO.

A 2.2l L has 142 horsepower and similar torque. The SOHC 2.2l engine is pretty bulletproof. The DOHC 2.5l engine in the 98 2.5RS is a mixed bag-if you have a phase 2 block, you're golden. If you have a phase 1 block, you aren't.

Several 98 2.5 RSs have gone for around 10-11,000. Our cars depreciate quickly... someone put up a comparison between a Neon and the Impreza, and the Neon holds its value better. Sick, huh?

If you're dead set on 4 doors, I would definitely look at the L. I would also take a look at a 95-99 Legacy GT if you'd like the extra torque of a 2.5l. Older Legacy GTs with AWD and nicer appointments will not only be more common but also more comfortable and the suspension of a 95-99 is very similar to a GC8 if you're looking to upgrade.

Jonny boy, I sent you a PM about an ebay auction that was a real steal. But it's over now, so you probably missed out.

Thanks to everyone for your responses and opinions. It has helped me learn a lot about what appears to be a great car in a short amount of time. I am going to stick with the Miata for a little longer and wait til the lack of back seat really is an issue before looking into an Impreza.

Someone mentioned getting the waon model. Was wondering if the wagon is a better buy than the sedan? And why? Also handling wise, I would think the extra back end weight might add even more tendency to oversteer? Just curious.

Jon

Wagons are arguably a better buy than the sedan when it comes to the 2002 models. The WRX wagon costs $500 less than the sedan, yet it subtracts nothing. (Well, the width is narrower by an inch and it's taller and heavier but technically not a subtraction) Older wagon models however, are more expensive than sedans/coupes, so there's no reason to prefer them unless you are into hauling your bike around or something.

Ok that's what I figured about the older ones. Interesting to note the 2002 WRX wagons are cheaper than the sedan model. Kind of strange. Especially if they are not really lacking anything.

Well I will be lurking around these here boards and trying to learn some more about these cars and who knows, maybe some day soon I'll be an owner :)

Jon