So I guess I'll be the idiot to try it- no IC = no lag instant turbo response - Page 3

LastResort · 11-02-2009, 01:02 AM

I'm curious to see the end results. Any reason why you did not consider the Spec C tank that fits in the trunk?

woodys77 · 11-02-2009, 12:01 PM

heat sinks would not be the same as an IC because its not adding any volume to the system.i think what hes thinking is adding some fins to the charge pipes like an air cooled engines cylinder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxdrvr

Heat sink, Yea, that's exactly what an IC is....

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxdrvr

But that's what he is trying to "get rid off"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jkmaynard

Mmmmmm hmmmm

wrxdrvr · 11-02-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodys77

heat sinks would not be the same as an IC because its not adding any volume to the system.i think what hes thinking is adding some fins to the charge pipes like an air cooled engines cylinder.

Yes that is true... But while under boost the IC does "act" like and is a heat sink, and while not under boost it dissipates the heat that it collected...

Turbo Bill · 11-02-2009, 01:48 PM

The whole idea with this project is to remove as much intake runner volume as possible eliminating turbo lag issues and increasing throttle response. Remember, the longer the intake runner the hotter the mixture gets. Also, our pipe will remove all outside heat influences due to it's heat resistant powedercoated exterior. One tuner is indeed interested to see the benefits and thinks low RPM response and spool up will benefit greatly due to the power band extending much lower then it presently is. We are very excited about this project and can't wait to get the system on the car. Understand that this project is dependent on a good alcohol/H2O system.

Imaudi · 11-02-2009, 08:37 PM

you arent going extend your power band by much at all. Your lag isn't from your TMIC, its from your turbo itself.

edit: im not saying your TMIC doesn't create some lag but it's not much AT ALL

White out · 11-02-2009, 09:44 PM

why is the alky spraying before the turbos on that el camino?

I wish you the best of luck with this, but it's been going on for 20+ years in the turbo buick community. The non-i/c cars never make as much power as the i/c cars. Even when running alky.

Nick

vet · 11-02-2009, 10:26 PM

^ I believe his goal is response not big numbers.

Turbo Bill · 11-02-2009, 11:31 PM

Why not spray before the turbos? That twin turbo motor is now eight years old and the turbos have absolutely zero wear on the compressor blades at all. The spray is extremely fine and most of it is in vapor form before it gets to the turbo. This is on a stock 350 GM Goodwrench engine with no mods and cast pistons and crank at 9.5-1 static compression running up to 18psi boost on 87 octane with full timing, no boost retard at all. Our new alcohol/water system in developement, and now progressed to in-car testing, sprays before the turbo and works just as good and better then the twin turbo setup. Also we don't have to worry about pumps leaking or seizing up or burning out as our system uses no pump, no relays, no electrical componants, that require failsafes. The main reason is because at some point these componants have.....well.......failed or worse yet, have actually failed enough to require the failsafe. Nothing sucks more then having your motor go into limp mode, or worse yet grenading in the middle of a run or when taking a buddy for a ride. If your system is fail proof then you don't have to worry if or when your meth system will let you down. Ask SMC, oh, right, they're out of business because their pumps were so unreliable they went broke replacing them. How many motors got damaged because of a pump failure?? Our soon-to-be released alcohol/water system is not a universal kit that uses plastic tanks and lines and slip fittings. It is designed and tuned and built specifically for the Subaru WRX and STI motors. Oh, and unlike those other outfits, we actually own a WRX and it gets the **** run out of it and begs for more. Our system only has one moving part and it's the most expensive highest quality piece we could find. It's aviation approved which means it must have a zero failure rate. Not some cheap $5.00 internet acquired part which would have been the easier route. Our lines are 2000psi braided steel teflon cored lines with positive seal screw fittings that are secured to the lines using approx. 3 tons of pressure. These are the same lines/fittings that are used on high performance/high end brake systems, another instance were anything less then zero failure is unacceptable. Every item is steel, stainless steel or brass in construction never has to be primed and never loses it's prime. In other words.......failsafe. In years of hard use I have had a zero failure rate from this system concept itself. The only blown engine I've had in thousands of miles of hard driving was due to my own mistake and missing a clamp on the old school alc/H2O piping system that's on that twin turbo motor. I replaced those eight broken cast pistons with a $35.00 set of used TRW heavyweight forged pistons and they are still in the motor to this very day. I learned my lesson and designed our system to be idiot proof in it's construction and installation and took the overkill/failsafe mentality to the extreme on each and every component. But I am digressing from the topic of this thread.

Now in regards to the intake temps, and our I/C eliminator piping, remember one thing, those Buicks are using automatic transmissions. All you do is powerbrake to rev up the motor and to spool up the turbo and go, lag is immaterial. It's an automatic, the turbos don't blow off and respool between shifts because those shifts are instant and the throttle is never lifted and they don't launch until intake manifold pressure is achieved. With a manual transmission, which ALL WRX's and STI's are equipped with, you have to blow off and respool between each shift, unless you know how to speed shift without lifting, which few know how to do properly. You also don't get boost until the clutch is engaged the pedal is floored, the turbo spools up, the I/C tank and it's added piping is pressurized along with the intake and the motor is under load and trying to move the car. System pressurization lag is there whether you admit it or not. I know, I was a physics major in school and I was a locomotive engineer where pressurized air brake systems and chamber volume charging time calculations and management mean the difference between a safely stopped train and a runaway wreck. If you remove even 1/2 second of lag per shift plus the launch, in a quarter of a mile, that can equal 2 seconds or more. It's bad enough that your not accelerating when you shift manually but to also not accelerate because you have to wait for the turbo to fill that I/C, that you may not even need because you have a meth system, is senseless too. The power difference due to cooling is just not that great. Also don't fail to remember the other benefits of Alcohol/water injection, namely increased octane, cylinder cleaning, thermal expansion, detonation control, and a smoother more efficient flame propagation. It's generally known that an airstream containing Alcohol/H2O hinders the I/C's efficiency and those I/C's don't do much at all below 40 some MPH. So the I/C in essence is negating some of the gains you get with an Alcohol/H20 system. With an intercooler and high boost, you do have to have an ignition retard system in place or tune in less ignition advance and that is a power robber. With meth you can advance your timing which equals power. Also your engine lasts much longer with a meth system then without while making more power. And those that say all your intake charge cooling is only from water are blowing smoke out their butt. Dip your finger in some alcohol and blow on it and do the same with water trust me you will see what I'm talking about. Also,if you get the chance, take a close look at a top alcohol funny car or dragster at the end of a run. Every single one of them will have a coating of frost/ice on the injector hat and even the blower due to alcohol's cooling properties. These motors have no cooling system whatsoever because the Alcohol does the cooling. When I built my twin turbo setup, I was going to inject the alcohol/water mixture directly into the carb throat. I discussed this with more then one forced induction expert and they asked what I was going to do if the carb's throttle blades froze in the WOT throttle position due to the alcohol? Why does every single top alcohol's throttle butterflies get sprayed with a lubricant/antifreeze solution before each run and these butterflies are located before the injectors? Another reason I inject before the turbo, to make sure all the cooling is done before the mixture reaches the throttle plate/blades/body. Also, the alcohol cools the compressor blades, which do make contact with the airstream as it pressurizes it, and thus transfers no heat or very little heat to the intake charge.

saab-on-the-cobb · 11-03-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaudi

you arent going extend your power band by much at all. Your lag isn't from your TMIC, its from your turbo itself.

edit: im not saying your TMIC doesn't create some lag but it's not much AT ALL

I have to agree.

Restriction, however, is another monster.

My car = slower with TMIC. (Way.)

sotc

blkscooby · 11-03-2009, 05:46 PM

Can't wait to see the results of this kit.

rjburner · 11-03-2009, 08:26 PM

I'll be pretty surprised if no IC + water injection > STI TMIC but interesting none the less.

Imaudi · 11-03-2009, 09:22 PM

Im not even going to get into the difference b/t your WRX and top fuel cars (and motors) because that would just take to long.

You don't want lag? get nitrous. Youre sacrificing reliability, this is so impractical on the street.

Just get this done post the results this way you can put your IC back on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-on-the-cobb

I have to agree.

Restriction, however, is another monster.

My car = slower with TMIC. (Way.)

sotc

On what turbo? An STI TMIC provides more then enough flow for an OEM turbo.

woodys77 · 11-03-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Bill

With a manual transmission, which ALL WRX's and STI's are equipped with, you have to blow off and respool between each shift, unless you know how to speed shift without lifting, which few know how to do properly. You also don't get boost until the clutch is engaged the pedal is floored, the turbo spools up.

FYI most of us have FFS and LC in our ecu's

FFS= flat foot shifting
LC= launch control

those that have it can spool in neutral and have no "blow off" during shifts. Also if you inject meth pre-turbo it will vent meth under your hood when you bov opens and if you have a bpv(OEM Subaru) it would recirculate the meth into your intake as the engine idles down after lifting from boost,,, wont it? i may have missed something in your long winded post.

WReXd · 11-04-2009, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Bill

the turbos have absolutely zero wear on the turbine blades at all.

Well of course, it's the compressor wheel you should be worried about. I thought it was a typo at first, but you did it twice:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Bill

the alcohol cools the turbine blades, which do make contact with the airstream as it pressurizes it, and thus transfers no heat or very little heat to the intake charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Bill

It's generally known that an airstream containing Alcohol/H2O hinders the I/C's efficiency

Yeah, if you spray before the intercooler... most people don't, so it is a non-issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Bill

Dip your finger in some alcohol and blow on it and do the same with water trust me you will see what I'm talking about.

That is a REALLY bad example. Your finger feels colder after dipping it in alcohol because it (alcohol) has a lower specific heat capacity, so more of it evaporates with less heat/energy. However, the heat from the intake air is more than enough to vaporize the majority of the injected water droplets. Alcohol DOES cool the air, but less than half per unit of volume.

Turbo Bill · 11-04-2009, 02:04 AM

I do know that full blown racing engines are very different from our street counterparts, the point I was making is that alcohol has excellent cooling properties. I don't see any reliability loss as your replacing the I/C with your installed meth system. As anyone with any smarts will admit, this setup will require a proper tune which we fully intend on doing.

You are correct WReXD, I really did mean the compressor vanes, I spaced out and incorrectly wrote turbine blades. Thank you for correcting me.

I have seen some pictures posted of alcohol/H2O injectors mounted upstream of the I/C or mounted in the upper tank.

We have seen no ill effects of the blown off air containing a 50/50 or even higher meth solution back into the intake track with the stock bpv. We've also run a vent to air bov and true it does vent some alcohol into the engine compartment but it is a very small amount and again we have had zero incident. But, I do not like venting any fuel into a hot engine compartment and made Ben add the optional tubing that came with the bov, so all blown off air was routed back into the intake track so it just gets burned in the engine and exited out the exhaust pipe. With the short I/C eliminator that blown off volume will drop drastically.

I apologize for the long winded post.

MENU · 11-04-2009, 05:06 PM

so any results yet?

downpipe12 · 11-04-2009, 05:46 PM

I am extremely interested in the details of how this custom setup works. I guess you can't really give any secrets away just yet, but if you can spare any more pics or details I await them anxiously.

Turbo Bill · 11-04-2009, 06:16 PM

Our prototype pipe order is on the production floor of our supplier. As soon as we get the pieces I will let you all know. I'm very excited about the company we chose to aid us in this project and feel the quality is worth the wait. Once I have all the parts in hand, I then will fit the pieces to our mule WRX and weld them up. We will post pics once it is installed on the car. Then it's off to the tuner and see what we can wring out of it.

downpipe12 · 11-04-2009, 06:27 PM

maybe I misunderstood your earlier posts, but what are you using to get the necessary pressure for atomization without using a pump or other electrical components?

woodys77 · 11-04-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Bill

I apologize for the long winded post.

I was just kidding and actually i respect anyone who tries to reinvent something, hey if i could reinvent the wheel trust me i would. good luck to you. where would or passion/sport be (Subaru's) if everyone said "ahh thats good enough".

Turbo Bill · 11-04-2009, 09:08 PM

I did mention that speed shifting (FFS) as us "Old Heads" call it eliminates the spool up between shifts. I did not know about the LC and when I asked Ben he did explain it to me. Thanks.

downpipe12 · 11-10-2009, 06:17 PM

updates?

Turbo Bill · 11-10-2009, 06:26 PM

Still waiting on the pieces from the supplier. I will be calling them here in the next day or two.

Mecka20000 · 11-11-2009, 06:35 AM

Wouldn't a tuned ecu w/ FFS setup just solve the lag problem through shifting? seeing as you never have to lift off during shift.

Turbo Bill · 11-11-2009, 02:17 PM

Not everyone has a tune like that and really how often does one FFS with the problematic 5 speed? Our project is still looking/testing to see how responsive the throttle is in any driving situation. Most car owners live in populated areas which is were the bulk of the driving is done. Here is where this project is expected to show great results. Giving you that nice crisp near instant throttle response and fully utilize that alcohol/H2O kit.

11-02-2009, 11:31 PM	#58
Turbo Bill Scooby Newbie Member#: 225078 Join Date: Sep 2009	Why not spray before the turbos? That twin turbo motor is now eight years old and the turbos have absolutely zero wear on the compressor blades at all. The spray is extremely fine and most of it is in vapor form before it gets to the turbo. This is on a stock 350 GM Goodwrench engine with no mods and cast pistons and crank at 9.5-1 static compression running up to 18psi boost on 87 octane with full timing, no boost retard at all. Our new alcohol/water system in developement, and now progressed to in-car testing, sprays before the turbo and works just as good and better then the twin turbo setup. Also we don't have to worry about pumps leaking or seizing up or burning out as our system uses no pump, no relays, no electrical componants, that require failsafes. The main reason is because at some point these componants have.....well.......failed or worse yet, have actually failed enough to require the failsafe. Nothing sucks more then having your motor go into limp mode, or worse yet grenading in the middle of a run or when taking a buddy for a ride. If your system is fail proof then you don't have to worry if or when your meth system will let you down. Ask SMC, oh, right, they're out of business because their pumps were so unreliable they went broke replacing them. How many motors got damaged because of a pump failure?? Our soon-to-be released alcohol/water system is not a universal kit that uses plastic tanks and lines and slip fittings. It is designed and tuned and built specifically for the Subaru WRX and STI motors. Oh, and unlike those other outfits, we actually own a WRX and it gets the **** run out of it and begs for more. Our system only has one moving part and it's the most expensive highest quality piece we could find. It's aviation approved which means it must have a zero failure rate. Not some cheap $5.00 internet acquired part which would have been the easier route. Our lines are 2000psi braided steel teflon cored lines with positive seal screw fittings that are secured to the lines using approx. 3 tons of pressure. These are the same lines/fittings that are used on high performance/high end brake systems, another instance were anything less then zero failure is unacceptable. Every item is steel, stainless steel or brass in construction never has to be primed and never loses it's prime. In other words.......failsafe. In years of hard use I have had a zero failure rate from this system concept itself. The only blown engine I've had in thousands of miles of hard driving was due to my own mistake and missing a clamp on the old school alc/H2O piping system that's on that twin turbo motor. I replaced those eight broken cast pistons with a $35.00 set of used TRW heavyweight forged pistons and they are still in the motor to this very day. I learned my lesson and designed our system to be idiot proof in it's construction and installation and took the overkill/failsafe mentality to the extreme on each and every component. But I am digressing from the topic of this thread. Now in regards to the intake temps, and our I/C eliminator piping, remember one thing, those Buicks are using automatic transmissions. All you do is powerbrake to rev up the motor and to spool up the turbo and go, lag is immaterial. It's an automatic, the turbos don't blow off and respool between shifts because those shifts are instant and the throttle is never lifted and they don't launch until intake manifold pressure is achieved. With a manual transmission, which ALL WRX's and STI's are equipped with, you have to blow off and respool between each shift, unless you know how to speed shift without lifting, which few know how to do properly. You also don't get boost until the clutch is engaged the pedal is floored, the turbo spools up, the I/C tank and it's added piping is pressurized along with the intake and the motor is under load and trying to move the car. System pressurization lag is there whether you admit it or not. I know, I was a physics major in school and I was a locomotive engineer where pressurized air brake systems and chamber volume charging time calculations and management mean the difference between a safely stopped train and a runaway wreck. If you remove even 1/2 second of lag per shift plus the launch, in a quarter of a mile, that can equal 2 seconds or more. It's bad enough that your not accelerating when you shift manually but to also not accelerate because you have to wait for the turbo to fill that I/C, that you may not even need because you have a meth system, is senseless too. The power difference due to cooling is just not that great. Also don't fail to remember the other benefits of Alcohol/water injection, namely increased octane, cylinder cleaning, thermal expansion, detonation control, and a smoother more efficient flame propagation. It's generally known that an airstream containing Alcohol/H2O hinders the I/C's efficiency and those I/C's don't do much at all below 40 some MPH. So the I/C in essence is negating some of the gains you get with an Alcohol/H20 system. With an intercooler and high boost, you do have to have an ignition retard system in place or tune in less ignition advance and that is a power robber. With meth you can advance your timing which equals power. Also your engine lasts much longer with a meth system then without while making more power. And those that say all your intake charge cooling is only from water are blowing smoke out their butt. Dip your finger in some alcohol and blow on it and do the same with water trust me you will see what I'm talking about. Also,if you get the chance, take a close look at a top alcohol funny car or dragster at the end of a run. Every single one of them will have a coating of frost/ice on the injector hat and even the blower due to alcohol's cooling properties. These motors have no cooling system whatsoever because the Alcohol does the cooling. When I built my twin turbo setup, I was going to inject the alcohol/water mixture directly into the carb throat. I discussed this with more then one forced induction expert and they asked what I was going to do if the carb's throttle blades froze in the WOT throttle position due to the alcohol? Why does every single top alcohol's throttle butterflies get sprayed with a lubricant/antifreeze solution before each run and these butterflies are located before the injectors? Another reason I inject before the turbo, to make sure all the cooling is done before the mixture reaches the throttle plate/blades/body. Also, the alcohol cools the compressor blades, which do make contact with the airstream as it pressurizes it, and thus transfers no heat or very little heat to the intake charge. Last edited by Turbo Bill; 11-04-2009 at 02:54 PM.

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11-02-2009, 01:02 AM	#51
LastResort Scooby Guru Member#: 99289 Join Date: Oct 2005 Chapter/Region: International Location: House of Pancakes	I'm curious to see the end results. Any reason why you did not consider the Spec C tank that fits in the trunk?

11-02-2009, 01:48 PM	#54
Turbo Bill Scooby Newbie Member#: 225078 Join Date: Sep 2009	The whole idea with this project is to remove as much intake runner volume as possible eliminating turbo lag issues and increasing throttle response. Remember, the longer the intake runner the hotter the mixture gets. Also, our pipe will remove all outside heat influences due to it's heat resistant powedercoated exterior. One tuner is indeed interested to see the benefits and thinks low RPM response and spool up will benefit greatly due to the power band extending much lower then it presently is. We are very excited about this project and can't wait to get the system on the car. Understand that this project is dependent on a good alcohol/H2O system.

11-02-2009, 08:37 PM	#55
Imaudi Scooby Newbie Member#: 202084 Join Date: Feb 2009	you arent going extend your power band by much at all. Your lag isn't from your TMIC, its from your turbo itself. edit: im not saying your TMIC doesn't create some lag but it's not much AT ALL

11-02-2009, 09:44 PM	#56
White out Scooby Guru Member#: 46277 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Michigan Vehicle: 1998 Hummer OpenTop 1999 Dodge Viper GTS ACR	why is the alky spraying before the turbos on that el camino? I wish you the best of luck with this, but it's been going on for 20+ years in the turbo buick community. The non-i/c cars never make as much power as the i/c cars. Even when running alky. Nick

11-02-2009, 10:26 PM	#57
vet Scooby Newbie Member#: 42194 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: MD Vehicle: 05 LGT Wagon GRP, sold 98 2.5rs Acadia	^ I believe his goal is response not big numbers.

11-03-2009, 05:46 PM	#60
blkscooby Scooby Specialist Member#: 44422 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: In ur ECU Vehicle: 08 STI FP 20g 91 and E85 #'s soon	Can't wait to see the results of this kit.

11-03-2009, 08:26 PM	#61
rjburner NASIOC Supporter Member#: 167014 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dayton,Ohio Vehicle: 2005 WRX Crystal Grey Metallic	I'll be pretty surprised if no IC + water injection > STI TMIC but interesting none the less.

11-04-2009, 02:04 AM	#65
Turbo Bill Scooby Newbie Member#: 225078 Join Date: Sep 2009	I do know that full blown racing engines are very different from our street counterparts, the point I was making is that alcohol has excellent cooling properties. I don't see any reliability loss as your replacing the I/C with your installed meth system. As anyone with any smarts will admit, this setup will require a proper tune which we fully intend on doing. You are correct WReXD, I really did mean the compressor vanes, I spaced out and incorrectly wrote turbine blades. Thank you for correcting me. I have seen some pictures posted of alcohol/H2O injectors mounted upstream of the I/C or mounted in the upper tank. We have seen no ill effects of the blown off air containing a 50/50 or even higher meth solution back into the intake track with the stock bpv. We've also run a vent to air bov and true it does vent some alcohol into the engine compartment but it is a very small amount and again we have had zero incident. But, I do not like venting any fuel into a hot engine compartment and made Ben add the optional tubing that came with the bov, so all blown off air was routed back into the intake track so it just gets burned in the engine and exited out the exhaust pipe. With the short I/C eliminator that blown off volume will drop drastically. I apologize for the long winded post.

11-04-2009, 05:06 PM	#66
MENU Scooby Newbie Member#: 208002 Join Date: Apr 2009 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Neenah, Wi Vehicle: 2004 WRX Brack stage roflcopter	so any results yet?

11-04-2009, 05:46 PM	#67
downpipe12 Scooby Newbie Member#: 212666 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Rocky Point Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon, Black, EVO III 16G	I am extremely interested in the details of how this custom setup works. I guess you can't really give any secrets away just yet, but if you can spare any more pics or details I await them anxiously.

11-04-2009, 06:16 PM	#68
Turbo Bill Scooby Newbie Member#: 225078 Join Date: Sep 2009	Our prototype pipe order is on the production floor of our supplier. As soon as we get the pieces I will let you all know. I'm very excited about the company we chose to aid us in this project and feel the quality is worth the wait. Once I have all the parts in hand, I then will fit the pieces to our mule WRX and weld them up. We will post pics once it is installed on the car. Then it's off to the tuner and see what we can wring out of it.

11-04-2009, 06:27 PM	#69
downpipe12 Scooby Newbie Member#: 212666 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Rocky Point Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon, Black, EVO III 16G	maybe I misunderstood your earlier posts, but what are you using to get the necessary pressure for atomization without using a pump or other electrical components?

11-04-2009, 09:08 PM	#71
Turbo Bill Scooby Newbie Member#: 225078 Join Date: Sep 2009	I did mention that speed shifting (FFS) as us "Old Heads" call it eliminates the spool up between shifts. I did not know about the LC and when I asked Ben he did explain it to me. Thanks.

11-10-2009, 06:17 PM	#72
downpipe12 Scooby Newbie Member#: 212666 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Rocky Point Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon, Black, EVO III 16G	updates?

11-10-2009, 06:26 PM	#73
Turbo Bill Scooby Newbie Member#: 225078 Join Date: Sep 2009	Still waiting on the pieces from the supplier. I will be calling them here in the next day or two.

11-11-2009, 06:35 AM	#74
Mecka20000 Scooby Specialist Member#: 176162 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: South Torrance, CA Vehicle: MY02 EJ207 w/ GT35R Cosworth Stroked 2.2L :)	Wouldn't a tuned ecu w/ FFS setup just solve the lag problem through shifting? seeing as you never have to lift off during shift.

11-11-2009, 02:17 PM	#75
Turbo Bill Scooby Newbie Member#: 225078 Join Date: Sep 2009	Not everyone has a tune like that and really how often does one FFS with the problematic 5 speed? Our project is still looking/testing to see how responsive the throttle is in any driving situation. Most car owners live in populated areas which is were the bulk of the driving is done. Here is where this project is expected to show great results. Giving you that nice crisp near instant throttle response and fully utilize that alcohol/H2O kit.