Formula One 2010 Thread. The Skinny in the front Fat in the back Era - Page 3

bikerwriter · 11-04-2009, 02:39 PM

Based on Bernie's "pay to play" attitude towards tracks (Indy was out because they wouldn't pay $30 million to host the race and upgrade the facilities), Bernie sure as ***** ain't paying for tires. I am sure that any F1 tire company would have to supply tires at a loss. In exchange, they would get the rights to advertise their tires as the official tire of F1. The question is what companies are making enough money to afford pissing a bunch of it away on F1.

Right now, based on the cash pouring in from Asia and the Middle East as they try to buy the prestige of F1 (Abu Dhabi paid through the nose for the rights to their race and built an entire facility from scratch), I'd wager that a tire supplier is going to come from there. Will it be Ling Long tires? I have no idea. But it isn't going be any company currently losing money, especially a tire company that provides OEM tires to the Western world where car sales suck and the future isn't so rosy.

StuBeck · 11-04-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autosport

Ferrari: Pull-outs not due to downturn

By Matt Beer Wednesday, November 4th 2009, 17:30 GMT

Ferrari has suggested that the departure of Toyota, BMW and Honda from Formula 1 in the past year is due to the actions of the sport's bosses rather than the economic downturn.

Toyota announced its decision to pull out of the world championship earlier today, citing the "current severe economic realities" as the reason for its abrupt exit.

But an item published on Ferrari's official website argued that Toyota and its fellow car makers' decisions had been prompted by a 'war on manufacturers' in F1.

"In reality the steady trickle of desertion is more the result of a war against the big car manufacturers by those who managed the sport, than the effects of the economical that affected Formula 1 over the last years," it read.

The article reiterated Ferrari's belief that the independent teams that have been granted 2010 entries are not of the calibre of the manufacturer outfits.

"Formula 1 continues losing important parts: over the last 12 months Honda, BMW, Bridgestone and this morning Toyota announced their retirements. In exchange, if one could call it that, Manor, Lotus [because of the team of Colin Chapman, Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna, to name a few, there is hardly more than the name], USF1 and Campos Meta arrived.

"You might say 'same-same', because it is enough if there are participants. But that's not entirely true and then we've got to see if next year we'll be really as many in Bahrain for the first starting grid of the 2010 season and how many will make it to the end of the season."

The piece also made a cryptic comparison between F1's situation and an Agatha Christie mystery novel, and urged the sport to take action against those responsible for the pull-outs.

"It seems like a parody of Agatha Christie's 'Ten Little Indians', published in England for the first time in the year 1939, but reality is much more serious.

"In Christie's detective novel the guilty person is only discovered when everybody else is dead, one after the other. Do we want to wait until this happens or should we write Formula 1's book with a different closing chapter?"

Ferrari's statement comes on a day when Renault - one of only three manufacturers left in F1 alongside Ferrari and Mercedes - is also evaluating its F1 future. The company is discussing its plans at an extraordinary meeting.

WTF is Ferrari talking about with Agatha Christie? Wouldn't they be the ones left, considering everyone else pays them money to have the honor of competing in the same sport as them...I'm just confused.

djosbun · 11-04-2009, 03:25 PM

I feel that F1 is pretty much killing itself. They are charging the tracks such astronomical fees that in a few years most of the old stalwarts will fall aside and half the events will be running in super-rich (ie: oil) countries. It seems everybody involved in F1 are only concerned about money, which is why it'll be tough for them to break back into racing in the USA, since nobody is going to be bullied (track promotors and fans) into massive fees. I just wish they could roll the racing clocks back to the 70's or 80's.

StuBeck · 11-04-2009, 04:48 PM

People have been saying that for years, its still pretty much fine. The manufactuer era lasted about as long as it could with this global climate, and I'm sure a few more will be back in a few years. Remember, 10 years ago there weren't many manufactuer teams either and it was still very fun.

rallymaniac · 11-04-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatLA

I thought WRC was Pirelli only?

you are correct and Pirelli is acutally debating the notion of not renewing the contract with WRC after 2010 season.
Everyone is strapped for cash

StuBeck · 11-04-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC Sports

Renault considers Formula 1 exit
By Andrew Benson

Fernando Alonso's Renault at the season-ending Abu Dhabi Grand Prix
Renault could become the fourth manufacturer to quit F1 in a year

Renault have held an emergency board meeting in Paris to discuss pulling out of Formula 1 with immediate effect.

The French car company was considering whether to remain in the sport with its own team, switch to simply being an engine supplier or quit altogether.

The outcome of Wednesday's meeting was not immediately forthcoming.

News of Renault's possible exit comes on the day Toyota said it was quitting F1, becoming the third car company to leave the sport in the last 11 months.

Renault's emergency board meeting was attended by F1 team bosses Bob Bell and Jean-Francois Caubet, although neither man was allowed to take part in the debate about the team's future.

ANDREW BENSON BLOG
Renault have motorsport in their blood

Renault have had their least competitive F1 season since 2002 and finished eighth out of 10 teams in the constructors' championship after Sunday's final race of the season in Abu Dhabi.

The company came under scrutiny for the team's involvement in the Singapore 2008 race-fixing scandal, in which they decided not to contest charges that they had asked Nelson Piquet Jr to crash to aid team-mate Fernando Alonso's bid for victory.
Renault F1 car

I believe Renault will continue - Jordan

Motorsport's governing body the FIA gave Renault a ban from F1, suspended for two years, as punishment, while team bosses Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds were forbidden from attending FIA-sanctioned events.

Last month, Renault signed the highly-rated Polish driver Robert Kubica to lead their team in 2010 as a replacement for double world champion Alonso, who has moved to Ferrari.

Well **** them too! If they pull out, I hope that the FIA fines them instead of continuing their suspended ban.

Ferg · 11-04-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuBeck

At least BMW was smart about it and didn't sign the agreement.

That's hung the team out to dry. Even with Toyota's withdraw there's no guarantee for the former BMW team of getting a slot. Toyota has a spot for next year to whomever buys the team, BMW did not.

Renault almost need to stay in for another two season is only to rescue their reputation.

Bottom Feeder · 11-04-2009, 06:22 PM

Curious...

Where does all the money go that the FIA collects for companies, teams and tracks to have the 'privilege' of racing in F1?

Someone mentioned above (or somewhere else) that Indy had to pay something like 30 million to host the race, for example. What actually costs that much? If all the teams are paying for everything (cars, drivers, crew, etc.), and have to actually pay the FIA to take part, does the FIA just sit back and collect checks and... that's it? While the teams and track owners put on the show?

So the FIA is now saying they probably will fine Toyota for leaving? The whole reason for leaving is lack of funding so why punush them (or anyone else) further?

Also, a tire company would have to pay the FIA to supply tires to everyone to put on the show that the FIA owns?

Has this been the problem all along and I just haven't thought about it hard enough?

StuBeck · 11-04-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferg

That's hung the team out to dry. Even with Toyota's withdraw there's no guarantee for the former BMW team of getting a slot. Toyota has a spot for next year to whomever buys the team, BMW did not.

Renault almost need to stay in for another two season is only to rescue their reputation.

I know legally it was the right option, but the lies from Toyota all this time is really pissing me off. Not that it matters to them, but its going to take a lot for me to get a Toyota from now on.

William WRX · 11-04-2009, 06:55 PM

There is more pulling out in F1 than in a Porn movie...

StuBeck · 11-04-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottom Feeder

Curious...

Where does all the money go that the FIA collects for companies, teams and tracks to have the 'privilege' of racing in F1?

Someone mentioned above (or somewhere else) that Indy had to pay something like 30 million to host the race, for example. What actually costs that much? If all the teams are paying for everything (cars, drivers, crew, etc.), and have to actually pay the FIA to take part, does the FIA just sit back and collect checks and... that's it? While the teams and track owners put on the show?

So the FIA is now saying they probably will fine Toyota for leaving? The whole reason for leaving is lack of funding so why punush them (or anyone else) further?

Also, a tire company would have to pay the FIA to supply tires to everyone to put on the show that the FIA owns?

Has this been the problem all along and I just haven't thought about it hard enough?

Its been a problem all along and you haven't thought about it.

The tracks pay because the FIA brings in the stewards, and runs the events. All that the tracks do is pay for security and get money from selling food and crap. With the amount of surrounding areas, and increased income which is brought in, while the track doesn't make money, the surrounding areas make tons.

Indy never had to pay $30 mil, thats why there wasn't a race there in 08, because that is what they were having to pay (the standard rate for tracks at the time) and they went crazy...cuz thats what TG does.

Toyota signed a legal agreement saying they would be in F1 until 2012. This was a lie, and now they are in a breach of contract. If they don't have someone take their spot, then they are in breach of contract for the next 3 years. Minimally, it has meant that Sauber has had many issues with entering for next year that they shouldn't have had, and I really hope they don't get a spot on the grid at the expense of Sauber because of it.

The tire supplier gets a lot of free publicity for being the F1 tire supplier, so yes, they do have to pay for it.

48mpg · 11-04-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikerwriter

Will it be Ling Long tires?

Ling Long Tires FTMFW. where can I get me a set. I'm about due

edit: :O Ling Longs do exist. unbelievable.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32899266...-autos/page/2/

CoreyLKN · 11-04-2009, 10:22 PM

Wait, no refueling?

i mean i watched a ton of formula 1 this year, and miss that detail about next season..

labcoat · 11-04-2009, 10:25 PM

I wish Fota would have split from F1. I know the series has to make money but this is ridiculous.

Ry-

Ferg · 11-04-2009, 10:52 PM

So we started 2009 with five manufacturers in the sport and we could end it with two if Renault pulls out.

Add to that the loss of Ron and Flavio and it's starting to look like Max's Hit List is being checked off.

Ferg · 11-04-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djosbun

I just wish they could roll the racing clocks back to the 70's or 80's.

Um...with a lack of manufacturers and a bunch of small teams running Cosworth engines that's exactly where we're heading.

centurion · 11-04-2009, 11:01 PM

I can't wait for the USF1 team debut. I will cheer them until the end of their time for sure. Here's to hoping they make it to Bahrain in 2010

bikerwriter · 11-04-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 48mpg

Ling Long Tires FTMFW. where can I get me a set. I'm about due

edit: :O Ling Longs do exist. unbelievable.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32899266...-autos/page/2/

I was joking about the Ling Longs being a supplier, but in a world where a Chinese heavy industrial company buys Hummer or Tata buys Jaguar, I don't think it's a far stretch to imagine some company deciding to buy a tire company and become an F1 supplier.

"A fool and his money are soon parted. They were lucky to get together in the first place."

Ferg · 11-05-2009, 02:20 PM

Motorsport's November podcast with John Watson and Nigel Roebuck. Absolutely required listening for the Grand Prix anorak.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/...h-john-watson/

JM530 · 11-06-2009, 01:07 PM

I'm surprised at Rubens leaving/getting ousted from Brawn, but totally see Kovalinen going bye-bye from Mercedes. Who knows where the Iceman will go tho.. maybe back to rallying, maybe to Mercedes.. he obviously doesn't give a ****, lol... love it!

Yeah, FIA just gets too greedy with some of this stuff.. really wish they would come back to Indy.. its too bad. Tires.. Sumitomo! haha...

I agree with no KERS or all KERS and think the more teams and newer teams should make for perhaps an even more interesting and different season next year.

bikerwriter · 11-06-2009, 06:28 PM

Man, Renault needs to make an announcement so we have something to talk about...

Ferg · 11-06-2009, 06:46 PM

From the sound of it there won't be any news for some time. I think they're staying around to be honest so I'm not so worried.

KAX · 11-06-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferg

From the sound of it there won't be any news for some time. I think they're staying around to be honest so I'm not so worried.

I think so too. We've got alot of time before we need to start worrying about next year, anyway.

Ferg · 11-06-2009, 07:53 PM

127 days, 12 hours, and about 6 minutes before the lights go out in Bahrain.

REX8 · 11-06-2009, 08:49 PM

Off Topic:

JPM just gave a long Nascar interview...and he didn't come off as a dick.

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11-04-2009, 02:39 PM	#51
bikerwriter Scooby Newbie Member#: 113125 Join Date: Apr 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Somewhere in Wisconsin Vehicle: 2005 Saabaru Red please!	Based on Bernie's "pay to play" attitude towards tracks (Indy was out because they wouldn't pay $30 million to host the race and upgrade the facilities), Bernie sure as ***** ain't paying for tires. I am sure that any F1 tire company would have to supply tires at a loss. In exchange, they would get the rights to advertise their tires as the official tire of F1. The question is what companies are making enough money to afford pissing a bunch of it away on F1. Right now, based on the cash pouring in from Asia and the Middle East as they try to buy the prestige of F1 (Abu Dhabi paid through the nose for the rights to their race and built an entire facility from scratch), I'd wager that a tire supplier is going to come from there. Will it be Ling Long tires? I have no idea. But it isn't going be any company currently losing money, especially a tire company that provides OEM tires to the Western world where car sales suck and the future isn't so rosy.

11-04-2009, 03:25 PM	#53
djosbun NASIOC Supporter Member#: 202176 Join Date: Feb 2009 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Hamilton, Ohio Vehicle: 2004 WRX wagon '07 Tribeca	I feel that F1 is pretty much killing itself. They are charging the tracks such astronomical fees that in a few years most of the old stalwarts will fall aside and half the events will be running in super-rich (ie: oil) countries. It seems everybody involved in F1 are only concerned about money, which is why it'll be tough for them to break back into racing in the USA, since nobody is going to be bullied (track promotors and fans) into massive fees. I just wish they could roll the racing clocks back to the 70's or 80's.

11-04-2009, 04:48 PM	#54
StuBeck Scooby Specialist Member#: 19546 Join Date: Jun 2002 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Rochester, NY Vehicle: 2009 VW Rabbit	People have been saying that for years, its still pretty much fine. The manufactuer era lasted about as long as it could with this global climate, and I'm sure a few more will be back in a few years. Remember, 10 years ago there weren't many manufactuer teams either and it was still very fun.

11-04-2009, 06:22 PM	#58
Bottom Feeder Scooby Specialist Member#: 2808 Join Date: Nov 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Northern VA Vehicle: 2001 2.5 RS Sedan Door Dinged Silver	Curious... Where does all the money go that the FIA collects for companies, teams and tracks to have the 'privilege' of racing in F1? Someone mentioned above (or somewhere else) that Indy had to pay something like 30 million to host the race, for example. What actually costs that much? If all the teams are paying for everything (cars, drivers, crew, etc.), and have to actually pay the FIA to take part, does the FIA just sit back and collect checks and... that's it? While the teams and track owners put on the show? So the FIA is now saying they probably will fine Toyota for leaving? The whole reason for leaving is lack of funding so why punush them (or anyone else) further? Also, a tire company would have to pay the FIA to supply tires to everyone to put on the show that the FIA owns? Has this been the problem all along and I just haven't thought about it hard enough?

11-04-2009, 06:55 PM	#60
William WRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 291 Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Caguas, Puerto Rico Vehicle: 2007 G35 S Waiting for L STi	There is more pulling out in F1 than in a Porn movie...

11-04-2009, 10:22 PM	#63
CoreyLKN Scooby Newbie Member#: 200012 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Devner, NC	Wait, no refueling? i mean i watched a ton of formula 1 this year, and miss that detail about next season..

11-04-2009, 10:25 PM	#64
labcoat NASIOC Supporter Member#: 33629 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Arlington VA Vehicle: 03 WRX Wagon WR Blue	I wish Fota would have split from F1. I know the series has to make money but this is ridiculous. Ry-

11-04-2009, 10:52 PM	#65
Ferg coma pony Moderator Member#: 14145 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle Portland TopScoob HQ Vehicle: '02 WRX '97 Tacoma Hitting big mit der Lama	So we started 2009 with five manufacturers in the sport and we could end it with two if Renault pulls out. Add to that the loss of Ron and Flavio and it's starting to look like Max's Hit List is being checked off.

11-04-2009, 11:01 PM	#67
centurion Scooby Newbie Member#: 107690 Join Date: Feb 2006 Chapter/Region: South East	I can't wait for the USF1 team debut. I will cheer them until the end of their time for sure. Here's to hoping they make it to Bahrain in 2010

11-05-2009, 02:20 PM	#69
Ferg coma pony Moderator Member#: 14145 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle Portland TopScoob HQ Vehicle: '02 WRX '97 Tacoma Hitting big mit der Lama	Motorsport's November podcast with John Watson and Nigel Roebuck. Absolutely required listening for the Grand Prix anorak. http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/...h-john-watson/

11-06-2009, 01:07 PM	#70
JM530 Scooby Specialist Member#: 69212 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Lombard, IL Vehicle: '08 STI SSM '08 FZ6, '06 Tribeca	I'm surprised at Rubens leaving/getting ousted from Brawn, but totally see Kovalinen going bye-bye from Mercedes. Who knows where the Iceman will go tho.. maybe back to rallying, maybe to Mercedes.. he obviously doesn't give a ****, lol... love it! Yeah, FIA just gets too greedy with some of this stuff.. really wish they would come back to Indy.. its too bad. Tires.. Sumitomo! haha... I agree with no KERS or all KERS and think the more teams and newer teams should make for perhaps an even more interesting and different season next year.

11-06-2009, 06:28 PM	#71
bikerwriter Scooby Newbie Member#: 113125 Join Date: Apr 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Somewhere in Wisconsin Vehicle: 2005 Saabaru Red please!	Man, Renault needs to make an announcement so we have something to talk about...

11-06-2009, 06:46 PM	#72
Ferg coma pony Moderator Member#: 14145 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle Portland TopScoob HQ Vehicle: '02 WRX '97 Tacoma Hitting big mit der Lama	From the sound of it there won't be any news for some time. I think they're staying around to be honest so I'm not so worried.

11-06-2009, 07:53 PM	#74
Ferg coma pony Moderator Member#: 14145 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle Portland TopScoob HQ Vehicle: '02 WRX '97 Tacoma Hitting big mit der Lama	127 days, 12 hours, and about 6 minutes before the lights go out in Bahrain.

11-06-2009, 08:49 PM	#75
REX8 Scooby Guru Member#: 24038 Join Date: Sep 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Philadelphia PA Vehicle: E46 /// ****box Godspeed Cale...	Off Topic: JPM just gave a long Nascar interview...and he didn't come off as a dick.