Short Block Went Out!!!..

[Saj5DJ]

Again, absolutely not. I recognize the right to demand proof of maintenance. However, I feel that the known issue should be acknowledged. OP said he changed the oil. I think we all believe him.

Moving from that basis, would the dealer and SoA be in the right to stiff him on the shortblock on the basis of oil receipts? Of course not.

Legally? Maybe. Only maybe though. A clear precendent of assploding engines that DO have proven maintenance exists, thus calling into serious question from a legal standpoint that lack of maintenance can be the cause. Do well maintained engines do this? Yes. Ergo cause cannot be proved to be lack of maintenance, receipts or no.

My real bottom line on this is: It's a faulty product, they know it's faulty. Everything else is just window dressing.

As for whats happening to 09Rex on his post... Seems receipts don't always seem to matter.

[blackfang]

Originally Posted by Saj5DJ

Again, absolutely not. I recognize the right to demand proof of maintenance. However, I feel that the known issue should be acknowledged. OP said he changed the oil. I think we all believe him.

Moving from that basis, would the dealer and SoA be in the right to stiff him on the shortblock on the basis of oil receipts? Of course not.

Legally? Maybe. Only maybe though. A clear precendent of assploding engines that DO have proven maintenance exists, thus calling into serious question from a legal standpoint that lack of maintenance can be the cause. Do well maintained engines do this? Yes. Ergo cause cannot be proved to be lack of maintenance, receipts or no.

My real bottom line on this is: It's a faulty product, they know it's faulty. Everything else is just window dressing.

As for whats happening to 09Rex on his post... Seems receipts don't always seem to matter.

You are contradicting yourself it is not funny.

First you talked about a this not being a lack of maintenance but an opportunity to weasel out of responsibility. When the other side of the story as to why they do this is given, you understand why and here we are. It is acceptable to ask for proof of maintenance to cover those grounds

If the product is faulty then it gets replace under warranty. In order to be certain, they are asking for receipts to make sure the owner is doing their part. There is only a clear precedent of assploding engines only here. That may not be the case throughout SOA and infact this may represent only a small amount of engines compared to those sold. I know all of the 09 WRX's we have sold have both the affected dates and non affected and all have had no issues. So what does that tell you? Not all of them are the case and you can never ASSume that. That is all that is being pointed out.

[Saj5DJ]

But ASSuming he didn't do the oil changes because he doesn't have the receipts is ok? And the attitude towards 09Rex who does have receipts is acceptable because...?

[Hondaslayer]

Originally Posted by Saj5DJ

But ASSuming he didn't do the oil changes because he doesn't have the receipts is ok? And the attitude towards 09Rex who does have receipts is acceptable because...?

There is no assumption though, the burden of proof of maintenance rests on the shoulders of the vehicle owner, not SOA. In court the vehicle owner would lose if they do not have any receipts.

Trust me, I was just there on Wed

[blackfang]

Originally Posted by Saj5DJ

But ASSuming he didn't do the oil changes because he doesn't have the receipts is ok? And the attitude towards 09Rex who does have receipts is acceptable because...?

It is the owners responsibility to save receipts to cover their end if it comes down to the burden of proof that maintenance was done. I am not commenting on the attitude the owner got from the dealer, nor saying it is acceptable. It is all how you present it to the customer.

[HITMAN07]

It's a new car bro and the engines from your year have problems. they should fix it no questions ask. Maybe you did beat your cars engine like when you beat a fine girl from behind lol or maybe you did not , but even if you did Subaru should fix it BECAUSE the fact is many of thos engines have many problems it's a known issue Subaru droped the ball on quality controll. Because of this they should stand by there loyal customers and fix the problem. You could have Bought any car you wanted in your price range but you picked Subaru for a reason the same reason most people and the reason that made Subaru a strong company ......reliability


Honda said he was at a court case where Subaru won

all I have to say is show the track record off failing engines in your engine build date and boom case closed easy win for you only 20k miles hahahaha cake work win for you

[09rex]

well I have ALL my receipts from all my oil changes and because the oil drain plug gasket (if it don't leak why change it)wasn't changed there basically calling me a liar. This car never leaked oil nor did it burn oil and ran great till it self destructed and the service manager even said that pictures were taken of that among other things and sent to SOA. My damage goes beyond just the rod nock it went as far as scoring the camshaft etc. See I have built quite a few engines in my time and anybody who knows engines knows that when you loose a rod and/or main bearing you are going to loose oil pressure else were in the engine which can cause scoring etc. When my rod bearing went I heard it and knew what was happening but it was late at night on my way home work so I drove it the remaining 15-20mi(I didn't have a my cell phone and was not going to walk that far with my bad hip). well by the time I got home it sounded like metal in blender. The service manager thinks I drove it with low oil at some point because of the damage.
DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN HAVE A BASIC IDEA OF HOW AN ENGINE FUNCTIONS AND OR OPERATES??????????

[blackfang]

Originally Posted by HITMAN07

It's a new car bro and the engines from your year have problems. they should fix it no questions ask. Maybe you did beat your cars engine like when you beat a fine girl from behind lol or maybe you did not , but even if you did Subaru should fix it BECAUSE the fact is many of thos engines have many problems it's a known issue Subaru droped the ball on quality controll. Because of this they should stand by there loyal customers and fix the problem. You could have Bought any car you wanted in your price range but you picked Subaru for a reason the same reason most people and the reason that made Subaru a strong company ......reliability


Honda said he was at a court case where Subaru won

all I have to say is show the track record off failing engines in your engine build date and boom case closed easy win for you only 20k miles hahahaha cake work win for you

So you are agreeing and saying that a person can buy a 09 WRX, not change the oil or take care of it for 20k miles or so, and when it fails it should be covered simply because other engines that failed were taken care of

[Saj5DJ]

What I'm saying is this: There are two guys here with wrecked engines. In one case, almost definitely not his fault, the other, most probably not his fault.

The dealers and SoA are going to challenge these people with severe finanical penalties to get their almost new cars working again. As a Subaru customer I find it disgusting that anyone believes that to be acceptable.

[HITMAN07]

For blackflang

I'm saying since there where alot of known problems with the 09 Subaru engines Subaru should not revoke a claim because of no paper evidence of oil changes. This customer has A very new car 20k miles what the dealer and or SOA is doing is making the customer guilty untill proven un guilty and that is just WRONG

I am very into business and how the retail world works I have seen people do shaddy things and I ( think they are screwing the system but ) hey the customer is why my self and many people have a job remember the old saying the customer is always rite? Well hell since many places for get this at least give the damn customer fair treatment with no scare bs s**t like got oil service work paper ...

I would say the claim should be 200% in effect for Subaru to replace the motor. Let me make it easy a punk 18 year old Kidd comes into the store and buys a new I phone. Let's say some stores have head of the I phones comming from the factory with cracked glass screens. Let's say in 15 days the kid comes in and says hey my I phone has a cracked screen is apple going to say WTF let me see your proof that you are taking care of your phone with a case cuz if your phone fell on the ground and broke is your own damn fault ..... So Bs who knows of he messed it up have to address the fact that it was a known issue of problems give the customer the upper hand

your going to win bro no worries

[blackfang]

It is pretty much pointless to continue arguing or even talking about this with you two because you are so far beyond confused and clueless it is stereotypical of this site. Your posts prove it and show you contradict yourselves. Myself and Hondaslayer have told you why SOA wants maintenance records. We are not putting blame on anyone. But some of you just can't think logically. Riddle me this... Why do ALL MANUFACTURERS do this? It is not just Subaru as i have worked for some others that many on here claim offer great service and they do it as well. That is all we are saying.

Some of us offer valuable insight from the other side of the fence that nobody else would know unless they worked for a dealer or SOA. However, the downfall is many have their blinders on and refuse to turn them off and think logically. That is why you rarely ever see us offering insight or help. It is like talking to the walls sometimes.

I could care less if I win. I don't get paid to come on here and offer help. I do it because people need it. There is a time when you just stop offering it because sometime people are just too dumb to understand.

[HITMAN07]

Now your calling us dumb yeah your real mature .... This shows me that you duno what to say anymore! You should be more positive here on NASIOC and maybe then people will give a dang about your two cents just stop being a negative little girl and stop calling people names when you get angery and mad. This shows what kind of personality you have .....

[blackfang]

Originally Posted by HITMAN07

Now your calling us dumb yeah your real mature .... This shows me that you duno what to say anymore! You should be more positive here on NASIOC and maybe then people will give a dang about your two cents just stop being a negative little girl and stop calling people names when you get angery and mad. This shows what kind of personality you have .....

Since you wanted to bring up how positive I am and my two cents....Maybe you should do a little searching into my post history and see what kind of impact I have had and those that were helped

[HITMAN07]

Nah bro I'm done with this topic I hope the guy gets his engine fixed

[blackfang]

As do I and under warranty

[quentinberg007]

How many miles was this engine on that specific oil change? Did the engine have 1 quart of oil or was it low by 1 quart (i.e. had 3.2 quarts)? The wording is unclear.

Subaru should be able to tell the quality of the oil when the vehicle came in. Also, if the engine is on 3000 miles on the current change and a quart low, that is typically within manufacturer oil consumption standards (which are, insanely, 1L/1000mi). Finally, if this guy did do the oil changes properly and it was a defect issue and SOA denies it because he can't produce receipts, this guy will NEVER EVER buy another Subaru and will slander their name to anyone he knows. I have probably had 10 people ask me what new car they should buy within the past year. I've suggested Subarus to at least 7 of those (obviously, it depended on the person's needs). I don't really recommend the VW I own to others because of the dealer problems I've had.*

* Problems include not returning calls to set up appointments, arriving to the dealer with a scheduled appointment to get a defect fixed and they don't have the part, and simply taking weeks and weeks to get parts in because they simply "forgot to order the part".

[Knotsure]

Blackfang - I, for one, have received the benefit of your knowledge in the past and I'm very appreciative of the information you share on these boards. So, don't get frustrated and give up on us, okay?

In reading these posts, I can't help but to wonder.....

Maybe the reason these dealer's are asking for copies of maintenance records is for the exact reason Quentinberg007 mentioned. Maybe the oil looked bad enough that they felt the need to question the maint. history. Both of these cars are higher mileage than the failures to the engines in the other thread. With what was happening on those, it sounds like something that would have to happen relatively early in ownership. Maybe these failures are totally unrelated to that issue and based on what the dealer is seeing, they feel something else is going on. If dealers report breakdowns to SOA (especially considering the 'cleaning process' problem, it may be an important part of the info in making sure the vehicles are maintained right - especially if there are indicators of a lack of maint.

[blackfang]

Sure thing Knotsure

The dealers ask for maintenance records because SOA requires us to. Before they pay for a motor replacement, they want to see records to show that the maintenance has been done. If there are no signs of abuse or lack of maintenance and there are records, no problems. If there are signs of lack of maintenance and no records, it gets tough. Like i said earlier, I could get an 09 WRX and not take care of it, change the oil for 20k+ miles and easily end up with the same issue as a defective motor that has been maintained.

[Saj5DJ]

And the guy who has all his receipts is getting messed around because....?

[Hondaslayer]

What the hell are you going on about?

I just read the only other 09 failure thread in the past week and all I see is the dealership following SOA's P&P manual which is pretty much industry standard practices.

[Saj5DJ]

list of events- 2009 wrx build date 08/08
-Last week had spun a bearing on the way home from work (stared as nock and by the time I got home 15mi. later it was screaching metal on metal.)
- had it towed to dealer last friday, said would look at it on monday and they would call me.
-Monday, I take a ride to the dealer and the service manager isn't there and and they said he wouldn't be back until Wed. and they know nothing and I have no loaner car (I also bring recipt copies of all oil changes.
- Monday night, I decide to call SOA to see if they new the status and of course at the time they new nothing and would call be back on tues.
- Tues. morning I get a call from SOA and say I need to call the service department to accept pontential cost for engine tear down because service tech says engine oil looks "Excessively OLD" and said they need to verify if there is excessive wear and or sludge build up. So I agreed because at the time I was at a loss for words because this car was well taken care of . Here's my oil change list with dates and mi.

Oil change #
1-Dec 10, 1000 mi.
2-Jan 22, 4500 mi.
3-Feb 20, 8542 mi.
4-March 27, 12,060
5-April 30th, 16,120
6-June 29th, 20,237
7- Last oil change was Sept 17th at 24,433 and oil has 2740mi on it
The major problem I have is the big "WHAT IF", such as what if excessive wear occured during and after the spun bearing due to loss of oil pressure caused by the spun bearing (or bearings) and as far as the oil condition, any oil that goes through this is going to look like pure hell and that the heat caused by the metal on metal grinding could easy burn the oil and make it look worse than it should
So Am I getting the shaft??? I just don't understand why I have to go through this compared to others with the same problem!
Please Help...

well I have ALL my receipts from all my oil changes and because the oil drain plug gasket (if it don't leak why change it)wasn't changed there basically calling me a liar. This car never leaked oil nor did it burn oil and ran great till it self destructed and the service manager even said that pictures were taken of that among other things and sent to SOA. My damage goes beyond just the rod nock it went as far as scoring the camshaft etc. See I have built quite a few engines in my time and anybody who knows engines knows that when you loose a rod and/or main bearing you are going to loose oil pressure else were in the engine which can cause scoring etc. When my rod bearing went I heard it and knew what was happening but it was late at night on my way home work so I drove it the remaining 15-20mi(I didn't have a my cell phone and was not going to walk that far with my bad hip). well by the time I got home it sounded like metal in blender. The service manager thinks I drove it with low oil at some point because of the damage.
DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN HAVE A BASIC IDEA OF HOW AN ENGINE FUNCTIONS AND OR OPERATES??????????

There you go. Maybe the above is in the manual. I should certainly hope not.