Going from Ecutek to OpenSource (HB Speed v Crawford Tune)

thecleaner691 · 11-01-2009, 01:30 AM

I just bought a nearly fully built 04 STI. Ive been reading the forums for a while and have some questions regarding tuning.
-Axis Stage II block, sti forged rods, CP pistons, Swaintech coated
-PE1825 twin scroll, APO JDM headers, Espilar Catless catback, Perrin up and downpipe, butterfly delete, APS FMIC, APS BOV, Tial 44mm wastegate, ARP head studs
-Ecutek

Im getting what the tuner (who tuned it) calls compressor surge. Basicaly, the car sometimes bucks or hesitates on acceleration when the turbo begins pushing boost. The car was an AZ car (100F every day), and is now in San Diego (70 every day), so I thought it was this, but he tells me its the elevation change that caused the problem.

So, I can go to Crawford, keep the Ecutek, and pay 650 to get it dynod, or take it to HB Speed and get it done for 450. The difference is because Crawford charges more, and you pay to use the Ecutek license every time. This car has been running Ecutek since it was built, and its been running good (I had leakdown and compression tests done to prove it). I read about how opensource works, and it seems that opensource tunes may allow me to change the tuning itself with the tex-something connector and a laptop, kind of like deltadash for Ecutek, except now I can uctually change stuff (not that I want to, but in case something fails I would like to be able to simply turn the turbo off or someting)

Who has experience with getting thier vehicles tuned with one versus the other? Also, Crawford is highly unavailable, to talk to, and to schedule, and HB speed is the opposite. HB also specializes in Subies, and I think thats all they do.

Longarm · 11-01-2009, 01:24 AM

John at HB Speed is a Subi God. he knows his stuff and it is done right the first time. I was hesitant about spending the cash for the dyno tune, but once he was done, he went over everything and also told me that they would adj the boost when winter kicked in for free if it needed it. Car runs true and strong. +1 for HB you wont be unhappy...

quazimoto · 11-01-2009, 12:33 PM

You will need to get the Ecutek tune removed if you use Opensource.

thecleaner691 · 11-01-2009, 05:36 PM

Cant they remove the Ecutek tune themselves? I mean the ecutek tune is flashed onto the ECM the same way as opensource. Wont they know how to do this? I'm not having my Ecutek tune removing and then driving 1.5 hours on a factory tune to GET my CAR TUNED.

The bottom line question of this post, which Longarm actually understood, is what kind of diferences in terms of service, results, and reliability, Im going to get with an Opensource vs ECU tune....Does it all really boil down to the tuner, or the the software? If tuner X and tuner Y are both equally experienced, are given a car to tune, but one only tunes opensource and one only Ecutek, what kind of performance/reliability issues am I gonna see, if any, with one tuning program vs. the other?

Crawford Performance · 11-01-2009, 06:48 PM

If you go to the race track and ask some questions, you will find that Crawford tunes the fastest Subarus at the track. If you ask Tarzan Yamada he will say that we tune the fastest Subarus in the world

I think Ken Block has a similar feeling...

Team Crawford

wrxsti.l · 11-01-2009, 09:26 PM

I'm pro opensource, BUT, since you already have the ECUTEK licence, you don't have to pay the huge initial outlay, and hence you only have to pay for the tuner/dyno time for future tunes anyhoo.

And it isn't like Crawford are bad tuners by any means

Leslie

mattminer · 11-02-2009, 11:11 AM

You shouldnt be paying an ecutek license everytime you get tuned, only the first time.

M@

quazimoto · 11-02-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

Cant they remove the Ecutek tune themselves? I mean the ecutek tune is flashed onto the ECM the same way as opensource. Wont they know how to do this? I'm not having my Ecutek tune removing and then driving 1.5 hours on a factory tune to GET my CAR TUNED.

Ecutek software has the ability to "lock" the ECU to protect the tuners proprietary property (the tune). So basicly no you cannot just remove the tune yourself. Were you not aware of this already?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1869104

Nuke209 · 11-02-2009, 01:47 PM

Buy another 2004 sti ecu (they have no immobilizers)
Get that tuned!
Then you have both to try, haha

thecleaner691 · 11-02-2009, 09:33 PM

Dear Crawford,
I would prefer to go there but I get poor customer service on you telephones and email (it was over 6 days to respond to a phone call and email. None of my questions were answered. I asked your secretary to give me the extension to your tuner, but she told me "well your gonna have to go through me anyway".

I again then emailed your tuner about some specific questions, over a week ago, and he still hasnt responded.

If im going to spend over 400 bucks on a tune, I want customer service to go with it, free of charge. If I have problems, I refuse to wait 2-3 weeks everytime you guys either a. Go to an event or b. Simply choose not to respond to my specific emails.

Yes, Crawford gets rave reviews for building the best subies, and Ken Block is an awesome racer, but Im not Ken. Im kevin. If you cant give me the same level of customer service, then Ill take my business elseware. Im not paying top dollar for top HP. Im paying top dollar for top CUSTOMER SERVICE and top POWERBAND.

thecleaner691 · 11-02-2009, 09:35 PM

DumDum,
No, I didnt know it could be locked, I just bought this car, and the tuner never told me such. It cant be that complicated. Also, I dont think this one IS locked because the tuner made 2 maps, one for 91 oct and one for 100 oct, which I can switch myself. Therefore, how can the map be 'LOCKED' onto the ecu?

quazimoto · 11-04-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

DumDum,
No, I didnt know it could be locked, I just bought this car, and the tuner never told me such. It cant be that complicated. Also, I dont think this one IS locked because the tuner made 2 maps, one for 91 oct and one for 100 oct, which I can switch myself. Therefore, how can the map be 'LOCKED' onto the ecu?

Ok........the link I posted is YOU asking a question where some replied answering that Ecuteck "locks" the ECU. Ecutek allows map switching,which has nothing to do with how they lock the ECU. Maybe you should try using the search button if you don't believe me. Or how about this............
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1027462
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...cutek+lock+ecu

Seriously, everybody and their brother knows about this.

NSFW · 11-05-2009, 01:49 AM

EcuTek customers: the flashed and the furious.

thecleaner691 · 11-05-2009, 03:41 PM

DumDum,

I saw that post about it being locked...After I bought the car...However, I have no proof that it actually is 'locked', and secondly, I need to find out if a non-ecutek tuner can remove the ecutek flash or if im stuck sending the ecu to ecutek.

And no, everybody and thier brother does not 'know about this'.

quazimoto · 11-05-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

DumDum,

I saw that post about it being locked...After I bought the car...However, I have no proof that it actually is 'locked', and secondly, I need to find out if a non-ecutek tuner can remove the ecutek flash or if im stuck sending the ecu to ecutek.

And no, everybody and thier brother does not 'know about this'.

Yes,everybody and their brother does know about this. And yes a licensed Ecutek dealer does have to reflash your ECU back to stock. Maybe you should try using the search feature then...........I mean seriously try actually looking for info on your own. You would be surprised at what you find. I love people that debate information with out even trying to find supporting data themselves........

SVT_WRX · 11-05-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

Dear Crawford,
I would prefer to go there but I get poor customer service on you telephones and email (it was over 6 days to respond to a phone call and email. None of my questions were answered. I asked your secretary to give me the extension to your tuner, but she told me "well your gonna have to go through me anyway".

I again then emailed your tuner about some specific questions, over a week ago, and he still hasnt responded.

If im going to spend over 400 bucks on a tune, I want customer service to go with it, free of charge. If I have problems, I refuse to wait 2-3 weeks everytime you guys either a. Go to an event or b. Simply choose not to respond to my specific emails.

Yes, Crawford gets rave reviews for building the best subies, and Ken Block is an awesome racer, but Im not Ken. Im kevin. If you cant give me the same level of customer service, then Ill take my business elseware. Im not paying top dollar for top HP. Im paying top dollar for top CUSTOMER SERVICE and top POWERBAND.

Hopefully, this is a wake up call to the folks at Crawford. Customer service is extremely important no "if's" "ands" or "buts" about it.

thecleaner691 · 11-05-2009, 06:30 PM

Dum Dum,

I did not know when I bought the car that Ecutek gets locked onto ECUs. Im someone, and I didn't know, therefore "everybody and thier brother" doesn't know about it.

preacher#1 · 11-06-2009, 01:47 AM

Either company is more than capable to tune your car, but the decision is on you, as far as what EM you want to use...so basically what kind of EM & customer service do you want?

Shops (tuners) now days need to return calls, answer e-mails with valid and specific answers to customers questions, and treat the customers with respect, because afterall we have the $$$.

I have an AP, so that basically leaves 2 solid tuners in s0-cal..HB and Yimi. I choose HB because they are semi-close, and Jon does know a thing or two about subes and mitsus. If Crawford has a Cobb license...that would be great...more options ftw.

Spoolin415 · 11-07-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

Dear Crawford,
I would prefer to go there but I get poor customer service on you telephones and email (it was over 6 days to respond to a phone call and email. None of my questions were answered. I asked your secretary to give me the extension to your tuner, but she told me "well your gonna have to go through me anyway".

I again then emailed your tuner about some specific questions, over a week ago, and he still hasnt responded.

If im going to spend over 400 bucks on a tune, I want customer service to go with it, free of charge. If I have problems, I refuse to wait 2-3 weeks everytime you guys either a. Go to an event or b. Simply choose not to respond to my specific emails.

Yes, Crawford gets rave reviews for building the best subies, and Ken Block is an awesome racer, but Im not Ken. Im kevin. If you cant give me the same level of customer service, then Ill take my business elseware. Im not paying top dollar for top HP. Im paying top dollar for top CUSTOMER SERVICE and top POWERBAND.

+1 on Crawford sucking ass.

socalLGT · 11-07-2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

Dum Dum,

I did not know when I bought the car that Ecutek gets locked onto ECUs. Im someone, and I didn't know, therefore "everybody and thier brother" doesn't know about it.

The Ecutek license is not "locked" to the ECU per se. What is locked out is the ability to read from and write to the ECU. On drive-by-wire Subarus with an Ecutek license, this "lock-out" can be removed by an Ecutek dealer/tuner by flashing on the stock ROM.

I can do exactly that for you and then tune the car with opensource, or tune the car with Ecutek. Another option is to purchase a Cobb Accessport which does have the ability to flash over an existing Ecutek tune and then offers the convenience of easy map switching, launch control, flat foot shifting, realtime tuning etc...

As for what the OP is feeling from his car as it enters boost, it may be compressor surge, which can be somewhat tuned around, but is by and large a physical phenomenon. I sometimes cannot be avoided when you have a turbo capable of moving a fair amount of air mass while spooling quickly coupled to a motor with relatively poor volumetric efficiency. This is not to say that it is something that can't be tuned out though.

Paul L
Yimi Sport Tuning

thecleaner691 · 11-07-2009, 04:37 PM

Paul L of Yimi,

Thank you very much for your reply and addressing my concerns..I have done more research about opensource v Ecutek, and it seems the only difference is the price (I found out I do NOT actually have a license), and what the tuner is capable of...

Therefore, I would rather go Opensource, unless the Tuner X tells me he's way better with Ecutek than Opensource. I really do want a 'set it and forget it' system because I don't want to tune it myself, but DO want to learn, and know enough about cars to do it (I was a light mechanic for 7 years)....

Paul, if you would like to tell me your tuning preference, Im curious. Also, I would like to know your rate for a full dyno tune for Opensource vs Ecutek vs AP. If you prefer opensource, then I would prefer it. I have a laptop and will be getting all necessary gauges..

Also, do you install gauge pods and gauges, as well as do trans and diff flushes? Also, I bought a Perrin ECBS because I dont like the bleed type OEM setup, and need that installed before tuning...

socalLGT · 11-07-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

Paul L of Yimi,

Thank you very much for your reply and addressing my concerns..I have done more research about opensource v Ecutek, and it seems the only difference is the price (I found out I do NOT actually have a license), and what the tuner is capable of...

Therefore, I would rather go Opensource, unless the Tuner X tells me he's way better with Ecutek than Opensource. I really do want a 'set it and forget it' system because I don't want to tune it myself, but DO want to learn, and know enough about cars to do it (I was a light mechanic for 7 years)....

Paul, if you would like to tell me your tuning preference, Im curious. Also, I would like to know your rate for a full dyno tune for Opensource vs Ecutek vs AP. If you prefer opensource, then I would prefer it. I have a laptop and will be getting all necessary gauges..

Also, do you install gauge pods and gauges, as well as do trans and diff flushes? Also, I bought a Perrin ECBS because I dont like the bleed type OEM setup, and need that installed before tuning...

I actually prefer OS to Ecutek. The interface is far more user friendly. My top preference would an AP, but if the hardware cost is too much for you right now I can give you an equally excellent tune with OS. Please PM me for pricing as the mods do not like vendors quoting price in anything other than the vendor classifieds.

We can install any of your parts for you as well as perform routine maintenance.

thecleaner691 · 11-08-2009, 12:38 AM

Paul,

Doesn't Open Source have 'real time tuning' as well if have a laptop hooked up and are using OpenSource software?

NSFW · 11-08-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecleaner691

Doesn't Open Source have 'real time tuning' as well if have a laptop hooked up and are using OpenSource software?

Nope. It's been discussed, but nothing has come of it yet.

11-02-2009, 09:35 PM	#11
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	DumDum, No, I didnt know it could be locked, I just bought this car, and the tuner never told me such. It cant be that complicated. Also, I dont think this one IS locked because the tuner made 2 maps, one for 91 oct and one for 100 oct, which I can switch myself. Therefore, how can the map be 'LOCKED' onto the ecu? Last edited by thecleaner691; 11-03-2009 at 07:37 PM.

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11-01-2009, 01:30 AM	#1
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	Going from Ecutek to OpenSource (HB Speed v Crawford Tune) I just bought a nearly fully built 04 STI. Ive been reading the forums for a while and have some questions regarding tuning. -Axis Stage II block, sti forged rods, CP pistons, Swaintech coated -PE1825 twin scroll, APO JDM headers, Espilar Catless catback, Perrin up and downpipe, butterfly delete, APS FMIC, APS BOV, Tial 44mm wastegate, ARP head studs -Ecutek Im getting what the tuner (who tuned it) calls compressor surge. Basicaly, the car sometimes bucks or hesitates on acceleration when the turbo begins pushing boost. The car was an AZ car (100F every day), and is now in San Diego (70 every day), so I thought it was this, but he tells me its the elevation change that caused the problem. So, I can go to Crawford, keep the Ecutek, and pay 650 to get it dynod, or take it to HB Speed and get it done for 450. The difference is because Crawford charges more, and you pay to use the Ecutek license every time. This car has been running Ecutek since it was built, and its been running good (I had leakdown and compression tests done to prove it). I read about how opensource works, and it seems that opensource tunes may allow me to change the tuning itself with the tex-something connector and a laptop, kind of like deltadash for Ecutek, except now I can uctually change stuff (not that I want to, but in case something fails I would like to be able to simply turn the turbo off or someting) Who has experience with getting thier vehicles tuned with one versus the other? Also, Crawford is highly unavailable, to talk to, and to schedule, and HB speed is the opposite. HB also specializes in Subies, and I think thats all they do.

11-01-2009, 01:24 AM	#2
Longarm Scooby Newbie Member#: 132140 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: So.Cal Vehicle: '06 WRX - Stage 2.5 HB Speed Tuned	John at HB Speed is a Subi God. he knows his stuff and it is done right the first time. I was hesitant about spending the cash for the dyno tune, but once he was done, he went over everything and also told me that they would adj the boost when winter kicked in for free if it needed it. Car runs true and strong. +1 for HB you wont be unhappy...

11-01-2009, 12:33 PM	#3
quazimoto NASIOC Supporter Member#: 70395 Join Date: Sep 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Midland,Va Vehicle: 02 wrx whitey	You will need to get the Ecutek tune removed if you use Opensource.

11-01-2009, 05:36 PM	#4
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	Cant they remove the Ecutek tune themselves? I mean the ecutek tune is flashed onto the ECM the same way as opensource. Wont they know how to do this? I'm not having my Ecutek tune removing and then driving 1.5 hours on a factory tune to GET my CAR TUNED. The bottom line question of this post, which Longarm actually understood, is what kind of diferences in terms of service, results, and reliability, Im going to get with an Opensource vs ECU tune....Does it all really boil down to the tuner, or the the software? If tuner X and tuner Y are both equally experienced, are given a car to tune, but one only tunes opensource and one only Ecutek, what kind of performance/reliability issues am I gonna see, if any, with one tuning program vs. the other?

11-01-2009, 06:48 PM	#5
Crawford Performance NASIOC Vendor Member#: 42075 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vista	If you go to the race track and ask some questions, you will find that Crawford tunes the fastest Subarus at the track. If you ask Tarzan Yamada he will say that we tune the fastest Subarus in the world I think Ken Block has a similar feeling... Team Crawford

11-01-2009, 09:26 PM	#6
wrxsti.l Scooby Specialist Member#: 156973 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: International Location: Adelaide, Australia Vehicle: 2002 ADM WRX STi STi Black/Blue	I'm pro opensource, BUT, since you already have the ECUTEK licence, you don't have to pay the huge initial outlay, and hence you only have to pay for the tuner/dyno time for future tunes anyhoo. And it isn't like Crawford are bad tuners by any means Leslie

11-02-2009, 11:11 AM	#7
mattminer Scooby Specialist Member#: 90642 Join Date: Jul 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Gansett, RI Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon WRB 02C	You shouldnt be paying an ecutek license everytime you get tuned, only the first time. M@

11-02-2009, 01:47 PM	#9
Nuke209 Scooby Specialist Member#: 108089 Join Date: Feb 2006 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Minnesota Vehicle: 2003 WRX NF Performance	Buy another 2004 sti ecu (they have no immobilizers) Get that tuned! Then you have both to try, haha

11-02-2009, 09:33 PM	#10
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	Dear Crawford, I would prefer to go there but I get poor customer service on you telephones and email (it was over 6 days to respond to a phone call and email. None of my questions were answered. I asked your secretary to give me the extension to your tuner, but she told me "well your gonna have to go through me anyway". I again then emailed your tuner about some specific questions, over a week ago, and he still hasnt responded. If im going to spend over 400 bucks on a tune, I want customer service to go with it, free of charge. If I have problems, I refuse to wait 2-3 weeks everytime you guys either a. Go to an event or b. Simply choose not to respond to my specific emails. Yes, Crawford gets rave reviews for building the best subies, and Ken Block is an awesome racer, but Im not Ken. Im kevin. If you cant give me the same level of customer service, then Ill take my business elseware. Im not paying top dollar for top HP. Im paying top dollar for top CUSTOMER SERVICE and top POWERBAND.

11-05-2009, 01:49 AM	#13
NSFW Scooby Specialist Member#: 140444 Join Date: Feb 2007 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Near Seattle, WA Vehicle: 05 Legacy GT Wagon ATP 3076 + AVO FMIC	EcuTek customers: the flashed and the furious.

11-05-2009, 03:41 PM	#14
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	DumDum, I saw that post about it being locked...After I bought the car...However, I have no proof that it actually is 'locked', and secondly, I need to find out if a non-ecutek tuner can remove the ecutek flash or if im stuck sending the ecu to ecutek. And no, everybody and thier brother does not 'know about this'.

11-05-2009, 06:30 PM	#17
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	Dum Dum, I did not know when I bought the car that Ecutek gets locked onto ECUs. Im someone, and I didn't know, therefore "everybody and thier brother" doesn't know about it.

11-06-2009, 01:47 AM	#18
preacher#1 Scooby Specialist Member#: 129894 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Laguna Beach CA Vehicle: 04 ForesterSTI SGM 08 Acura RDX	Either company is more than capable to tune your car, but the decision is on you, as far as what EM you want to use...so basically what kind of EM & customer service do you want? Shops (tuners) now days need to return calls, answer e-mails with valid and specific answers to customers questions, and treat the customers with respect, because afterall we have the $$$. I have an AP, so that basically leaves 2 solid tuners in s0-cal..HB and Yimi. I choose HB because they are semi-close, and Jon does know a thing or two about subes and mitsus. If Crawford has a Cobb license...that would be great...more options ftw.

11-07-2009, 04:37 PM	#21
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	Paul L of Yimi, Thank you very much for your reply and addressing my concerns..I have done more research about opensource v Ecutek, and it seems the only difference is the price (I found out I do NOT actually have a license), and what the tuner is capable of... Therefore, I would rather go Opensource, unless the Tuner X tells me he's way better with Ecutek than Opensource. I really do want a 'set it and forget it' system because I don't want to tune it myself, but DO want to learn, and know enough about cars to do it (I was a light mechanic for 7 years).... Paul, if you would like to tell me your tuning preference, Im curious. Also, I would like to know your rate for a full dyno tune for Opensource vs Ecutek vs AP. If you prefer opensource, then I would prefer it. I have a laptop and will be getting all necessary gauges.. Also, do you install gauge pods and gauges, as well as do trans and diff flushes? Also, I bought a Perrin ECBS because I dont like the bleed type OEM setup, and need that installed before tuning...

11-08-2009, 12:38 AM	#23
thecleaner691 Scooby Newbie Member#: 224641 Join Date: Sep 2009	Paul, Doesn't Open Source have 'real time tuning' as well if have a laptop hooked up and are using OpenSource software?