Did he intentionally block that corner to make sure Trulli didn't get pole, or did the 7 time world champion actually mess up?



Mika

Good news is, he is under investigation. Hopefully FIA pulls their collective heads out of Ferrari's ace and penalizes him.



Mika(slightly biased)

Wait I voted wrong!


DAMN!

He's gotta be guilty. I'm a fan of his, but this type of move was class-less and potentially rather dangerous. Hang him!

Hope Kimi or Alonso wins!

Wait I voted wrong!


DAMN!


haha, it was a bit confusing there finn.

I think we know where Flav's vote goes.

haha, it was a bit confusing there finn.

I think we know where Flav's vote goes.


Darn Republicans!!!!:lol:

IbPP


Mika

Alonso sounded pissed in the conference.

yea Flav was PISSED. It was intentional....."oh I didnt want to backup cuz I couldnt see" blah blah

guilty.

a. there was no lockup as he stated in the conference. I was specifically looking for that in the replay. He wasn't going at any rate of speed for that. So that's a flat out lie.

b. he completely pointed the car in the wrong direction intentionally mid corner and exit. If he held it to the right he would have EASILY been able to get around with minimal correction.

i saw a little smoke from the front right tire, but he could have done that intetionally, no? Just a quick stab at the brakes?

Judge for yourself.
Understeer? (http://youtube.com/watch?v=blbmZO8Oz7Y&search=monaco%20gp%202006)

Is it not possible he made a mental error? Next you're going to tell me that steriods helped Barry Bonds hit all those home runs. Oh ye of little faith. ;)

That was weirder 'an ****. To my eyes, he didn't do a very good job of faking it.

If it was Panache driving I could see it, but Shumy a very poor job of faking an understeer problem. He didn't even come to a stop at the right place.

that was a very precise mental error. i just find it silly that he was braking, then coasted a little, then stopped right at the barrier. theres is no way that was a geniune mistake


oh and...

Schumacher sent to back of the grid (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=119504)

There is a nice bump going into that right hander prior to pit entrance, so I'd think it's possible. But, eh, on with the witch hunt!

Woohoo

Even if you think that he did it on purpose, he shouldn't have been sent to the back of the field. Give Alonzo the pole and put Schumacher on the outside pole and let them settle it on the track. But by putting Schumacher in the back it might effect his chances at winning the driver's championship. if there's any justice, Alonzo will crash out. Little cry baby, he shouldn't have waited until the closing seconds of the session to try for his fastest time. Or if his pit crew hadn't screwed up and had him and his team mate in the pits trying to change tires with under 2 minutes left, he would have had more time and not been effected by Schumacher. Settle it on the track. Oh, and if the FIA has there head up anyones rear it's Renault, they are doing all they can to give the championship to anyone other than Ferrari. Why else would they put Schumacher in the back? :huh:

You mean to tell us that they shouldn't try to rin there fastest lap at the end of a session when the are on the lowest fuel load. I think the great Schumacher is afraid the great Ferrari isn't fast enough to keep pace during the hole GP

PS. i don't like Alonso either but that was a pretty childish move by Schumacher




Go Kimi

I have been big Schumacher fan since 93, but this was pretty bad :(

Even if you think that he did it on purpose, he shouldn't have been sent to the back of the field. Give Alonzo the pole and put Schumacher on the outside pole and let them settle it on the track.

What about all the other drivers who were hampered?

Is it not possible he made a mental error? Next you're going to tell me that steriods helped Barry Bonds hit all those home runs. Oh ye of little faith. ;)

Ummm no.

Didn't Varsha (or someone) say Schumacher was famous for doing this type of stunt in Formula 3 and other races?

He still had space to turn after he stopped, he faked it.

Back of the field is a great place for him.

That was not an accident. I think it was funny how he did it just as the time ran out, and I mean to the second. That was pretty smart of him if he got away with it which he didn't. That was a pretty daring thing to do though, I mean if he misjudged the turn or speed he could have really lost control and crashed.

Steve

Has Senna been reincarnated??? :eek:

well, it isn't the first time he has pulled a stunt like this.... Anyone remember a few years ago when he had an intentional run in with Damon Hill, putting him out of the running for the championship on in the last race? Then again with Jaques Villeneuve again a few years later, intentionally putting him out of the race, and allowing him to win the championship both times?

Didn't Varsha (or someone) say Schumacher was famous for doing this type of stunt in Formula 3 and other races?

He still had space to turn after he stopped, he faked it.

Back of the field is a great place for him.

He is famous for stunts like these even in F1.... This is the first time that they would punish him though.....

Is the Monaco GP televised? I don't see it on the Speed schedule...

well, it isn't the first time he has pulled a stunt like this.... Anyone remember a few years ago when he had an intentional run in with Damon Hill, putting him out of the running for the championship on in the last race? Then again with Jaques Villeneuve again a few years later, intentionally putting him out of the race, and allowing him to win the championship both times?

he didnt win the tittle in 97 (villeneuve) his points were removed due to that verry incident.

Is the Monaco GP televised? I don't see it on the Speed schedule...

enjoy this race on CBS

this situation bumes me out......

Arg, they scheduled Monaco during the same timeslot as Indy? Are they ****ing stupid?

For speed you have to wait till 12am on June 2nd.

damn, since starting last, why not install a new engine, start from pits and win when everybody else has engine problems?

Shmuk!

Has Senna been reincarnated??? :eek:

You have to remember that Senna has been sainted so all of his sins have either been forgiven, forgotten, or just plain ignored. If what MS did yesterday was deliberate (I'm personally 50/50 on it), I bet Senna was watching and cracked a smile because it would of been something he would have done.

When you drive a ferrari you can act like that, but even for him that was a real dick move. :mad:


Planned for sure.

Even if you think that he did it on purpose, he shouldn't have been sent to the back of the field. Give Alonzo the pole and put Schumacher on the outside pole and let them settle it on the track. But by putting Schumacher in the back it might effect his chances at winning the driver's championship. if there's any justice, Alonzo will crash out. Little cry baby, he shouldn't have waited until the closing seconds of the session to try for his fastest time. Or if his pit crew hadn't screwed up and had him and his team mate in the pits trying to change tires with under 2 minutes left, he would have had more time and not been effected by Schumacher. Settle it on the track. Oh, and if the FIA has there head up anyones rear it's Renault, they are doing all they can to give the championship to anyone other than Ferrari. Why else would they put Schumacher in the back? :huh:

What about the rest of the field? Alonso should just benefit???

"Why else was Schumaker at the back of the field???"

THE RULES STATE THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR (intentionally causing....) sends the driver to the back. ANY CAR, no matter the color would have been put back there for doing the same thing...

I can't believe you think the FIA is targeting Schumi. The man has been given SO MANY gifts through the years, now you think the tables have turned?? :lol: Yeah right.

A natural consequence of the internal combustion engine is that it BURNS fuel. They run hard their last few laps, it just so happends that they get faster and faster as they lighten up, making their last lap the fastest....

Race Steward speaks out...

Monaco steward says decision 'painful'

By Michele Lostia Monday, May 29th 2006, 16:53 GMT

One of the race stewards at the centre of the Michael Schumacher qualifying controversy in Monaco has admitted that it was a 'painful decision' to punish the seven-time world champion, but claimed there was no choice after finding out that Schumacher had lost control of his car at just 16km/h.

Joaquin Verdegay, who is vice-president of the Spanish motorsport federation and one of the three stewards on duty last weekend, has revealed that all the evidence pointed towards Schumacher having acted deliberately in stopping his car.

He claims that the speed at which Schumacher went off, allied to the sequence of events that led to the car stalling, all pointed to the fact that the Ferrari driver had tried to deliberately block his rivals by leaving his car on the track.

"It was a painful decision because we could not make a mistake and put the reputation of a driver at risk," he told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"We don't know if the entire manoeuvre was deliberate, but in that spot he had certainly not done anything like it throughout the weekend: he braked over 50% more heavily than on the other laps.

"Then he performed some absolutely unnecessary and pathetic counter-steering, and that lasted five metres, until there was no more chances of going through the turn normally.

"He lost control of the car while travelling at 16km/h! That's something completely unjustifiable. And the engine shut off because he wanted it to, by losing enough time before hitting the clutch. And the excuse that he did not engage reverse because there was traffic doesn't make sense."

Verdegay added that if Schumacher had actually hit the barriers then the stewards would probably have given him the benefit of the doubt that the entire incident was accidental.

"If he had damaged the car we would have probably filed the matter as an error. As it is, to 'park' it that way, you only do it deliberately," he added.

"We've only applied article 116 of the sporting regulations: if a driver affects the results of other drivers by committing an error, you can cancel all his lap times."

exactly, so the next time michael does that, hell be sure to just break the wing, since thats easily replacable.

Another example of money can't buy you class...



Mika

Race Steward speaks out...

Well, he is Spanish.

Has Senna been reincarnated??? :eek:

Senna would at least tell you what he did and not sheepishly stand behind his BS pretending that he did nothing wrong. Any F1 driver who crashes at 16kph deserves to get banned for a race for not knowing how to drive.

Why bother trying to work it out, F1 is so boring it's like watching paint dry!!

Why bother trying to work it out, F1 is so boring it's like watching paint dry!!
WOW.
I only hope you are kidding.
Do you get NASCAR in the UK?

Why bother trying to work it out, F1 is so boring it's like watching paint dry!!
Good point :rolleyes:

WOW.
I only hope you are kidding.
Do you get NASCAR in the UK?

I'm not surprised.

In the UK F1 is NASCAR.

Well, he is Spanish.

Wait... are you serious? :huh:

WOW.
I only hope you are kidding.
Do you get NASCAR in the UK?

Please, you have to admit that Formula 1 is good sleeping material at times....and by no means am i supporting NASCAR in that statement.

How 'exciting' of an incident :rolleyes:

One more suggestion for the FIA - why don't you mandate that these cars be able to friggin start themselves up after stalling? (Or is that a rule change for 2009 or something?)

Isht happens in racing all the time- get over it. Some guys play dirty, some place nice, some are in between. You gotta make due with the situation and deal with it. Sometimes your luck is good, sometimes it just sucks.

I don't think there is anything in the 08 regs for on board starters. That is very strange to me. Champ Car figured it out.
I disagree w/ you about the "deal with it" factor. You have to try to make the playing field as level as possible and you can't (shouldn't) have deliberate acts of bad sportsmanship. You do have to deal with it and the FIA did. They punished him. Just like in any other sport. It's with in your rights to high stick a guy in hockey but you get to it in the box or a few minutes. You can face mask a guy in football but its going to be a 15 yarder. So if you do something underhanded just be prepared for the consequences. He's no worse then any others in the field, he just got caught.

He's no worse then any others in the field, he just got caught.
My point exactly, and goes right along with your examples. Face mask? How about holding? How many times can/do they get away with it, and how many time do they get called?

You're exactly right - he got caught one way or another. "I didn't mean to grab his facemask" - in some cases, that might be true, in others, it's obviously not. Either way, if the official sees it and makes the judgement, that's it, it's over and done with.

That's what I mean of "get over it." It happened, FIA made a decision, move on. It's not worth analysing til you're blue in the face.

That's what I mean of "get over it." It happened, FIA made a decision, move on. It's not worth analysing til you're blue in the face.

Cool, I misunderstood your comment. I think we agree 100% now.

Call me Pollyanna, and pardon me for coming to this late, but I just don't think that Schumacher/Ferrari are that stupid. Nobody could be that stupid, given the risk/reward of that situation.

At worst, with the time he'd posted, Schumacher would have ended up third on the grid. He and Ferrari knew how good that provisional time was. So he starts alongside Alonso, or perhaps in third, behind Alonso. That's a darn sight better than the back of the grid, the penalty for trying such a thing and failing.

And any driver who says that "For sure, I would have been on pole" is smoking crack. Alonso was three tenths up at the first split, I think he said. Who knows what happens the rest of the lap? Quite a few drivers were faster at the first split, then lost it during the rest of the lap.

Ultimately, who knows what Schumacher was thinking, who knows what the car was doing, or what the evidence was that was presented by Ferrari? If it was deliberate, it was astoudingly stupid and bush-league.

What I do know is that Schumacher is a great driver, and when he's gone his fans will be bummed, his detractors won't have anything to talk about, and the sport will be the poorer for it.

Kevin

Call me Pollyanna, and pardon me for coming to this late, but I just don't think that Schumacher/Ferrari are that stupid. Nobody could be that stupid, given the risk/reward of that situation.
Look at the video of the interview. He tries to act like he forgot the name of the turn ("what is it, Rascasse?"), for crying out loud! My guess is that he thought he could get away with it.

and as the race stewards said, it was his last and probably fastest lap...so why was he braking up to 50% earlier than on every other lap?? hmmm

and alonso would have poled for sure. he was only six hundredths of a second off AFTER going by michaels stalled car with yellow flags. and to think it wasnt intentional, i agree ferrari shouldnt be that stupid, but it wasnt ferrari's mistake. Michael got caught up in the heat of the moment, and whether it was intentional or not, the rule states that if they block, they can strip their times.

and alonso would have poled for sure. he was only six hundredths of a second off AFTER going by michaels stalled car with yellow flags. and to think it wasnt intentional, i agree ferrari shouldnt be that stupid, but it wasnt ferrari's mistake. Michael got caught up in the heat of the moment, and whether it was intentional or not, the rule states that if they block, they can strip their times.

I can believe the "unilateral Michael," but man, I still can't believe somebody would be that stupid. I just can't. The notion just blows me away, and smacks of deperation in the extreme, if true.

I wouldn't have minded some interpretative liberty there, similar to the Arsenal/Barcelona Champions League match, where he interpreted the rules correctly and sent off Jens Lehmann, but ruined the match by making it 10 v 11, rather than 11 v 11. You could see the quality of the match deteriorate into defense vs offense, rather than two great sides knocking heads. Post-match, the ref said that in retrospect, he should have awarded the goal to Barcelona and yellow carded Lehmann.

The Monaco decision, justifiably rooted in fair play and strict interpretation of the rules (as was the Lehmann sending off) though it was, has wrung the suspense out the remainder of the season. Certainly, Alonso/Renault shouldn't be penalized for being excellent. I just wouldn't have minded seeing more of a driver's championship fight.

Kevin

After watching it, you got to have a strong faith towards MS that the incident is purely accidental. I'm a fan of MS and after seeing that, I got a bit sad cos I think he could avoid that but I might be wrong. So I am still unsure about it. I never driven a F1 car before so can't make any judgement

- Charles

After watching it, you got to have a strong faith towards MS that the incident is purely accidental. I'm a fan of MS and after seeing that, I got a bit sad cos I think he could avoid that but I might be wrong. So I am still unsure about it. I never driven a F1 car before so can't make any judgement

- Charles

its just in the finding of the stewards, he lost control at 16km/h. Could you even lose control at 16 km/h in your car (barring panache of course with his turbo spool theory)? And that he braked 50% more at 16 km/h then he did on his other laps, where he went through the corner higher then 16 km/h (just to lock up the brakes and make it look accidental). With those findings, its hard to beleive a 7 time world champion could make a mistake like that, it had to be intentional.

Ultimately, who knows what Schumacher was thinking, who knows what the car was doing, or what the evidence was that was presented by Ferrari?

Those guys can't fart in the car without it instantly showing up on a few dozen computer screens. Seriously, there is telemetry for just about every real time parameter you can think of, plus a dozen or so that I can't understand. That's what I get out of it when the steward says "...he braked over 50% more heavily than on the other laps..." To me that means they looked at the data from that corner when he botched it and compared it to his previous laps. There is no question that MS is extremely talented, and it just does not make any sense that he made a mistake in driving. It seems the mistake he made was in thinking that people wouldn't notice such a stunt, and in thinking that he might get away with it.