Saludos,

Three months ago we started working with logistics of preparing a car for the Time Trials events by NASA and Super Street Time Attacks. Edo Performance (512) 462-0125 located at Austin, Texas and a second wharehouse in California is the Distributor of Zerosports in USA and other very respected brands such as TOMEI, DEFI, J's Racing, Power Enterprise etc. Edwin owner of this company is a very dedicated enthusiast to the JDM Motorsport comunity. He loves cars and does business in a very personalize style. Behind him is a very dedicated personel that always is looking to go the extra mile for the customers. APTuners is located at Puerto Rico and we have been working with Subaru's since 2000. Winning locally 3 FIA road racing championships and competing in local time trials events. APTuners is own by myself, Miguel Alcrudo, wich I've tried with time to understand every time the dynamics of the Subaru's we built them, tune them and race them (drag/ Road race).

The goal was to built a full trim street car with A/C and everything that can go to shows, drive every day on the streets and hit the track to every event we can participate. This was going to be done on 6 days, from stock to track tested in a week!
Last saturday we arrived at austin at 11am and went directly to their facilities to work on the car. With the help of a few comapanies wich supported this project from first day this was going to be done. There were no options of failure.
Companies such as TURBO XS wich provided with their excellent products such as UTEC w/ switch, TMIC, Downpipe w/ CBA and Tuner Pro Equip.. 5ZIGEN who provided us with the good N01R-c 18" wheels, Performance Friction wich understood perfectly our needs and provided with the excellent 2-piece front rotors and great compounds on the pads front and rear and Forced Performance by building and excellent RED turbo to help us on power and COSWORTH with great pistons and head studs.
Here some picks form the process:
http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2237.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2257.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2268.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2319.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2319.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2350.jpg

Then on thuersday, DYNO!!!. The great people of Mohammad @ MZM Performance were very open and rent us there dyno facilities so I could tune our project car. First time for me to visit their shop wich is very clean, well organized and very professional. They were always looking for a way so we can feel conftable working. Again, Thanks alot Mr. Mohammad for your professional attencion to us! Hope we see again soon!. We used their Mustang dyno and the end results were 325.7whp and 304.7Torque @ 19psi on pump gas then we did a race tune with race gas getting out of it a nice 451.1whp and 421.1Torque @ 28psi.

Pics!
http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/cimg6268.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/cimg6269.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/cimg6270.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/cimg6271.jpg

Then on friday our track day test. We went to the Texas World Speedway and used the 1.8mile course running clockwise. There we met some nice men on Z06 Corvettes, great driver, fast vette's wich gave us nice hints on the track since it was my first time at that track. After 4 25minutes session the car was perfect! Excellent brakes, Great balance on the suspencion and good progressive power band. We were doing as much as 153mph on the straights and finally going into the high 1.12:xx. The vette's were running low 1.15:xx.
We didn't have any problem with the car and felt very fast.
We are on schedule for the NASA TT in Aug. 12th-13th @ Thunderhill Raceway Park to do our debut.

Pics!

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2364.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2378.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2359.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2395.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2404.jpg

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/100_2384.jpg

We will keep posting!

Very familiar with this dyno. 451 is truly amazing and a lot of power. Your car should make an 11 second pass @ 120 + MPH easy.

MZM truley an awesome shop.

Miss Austin.

Cheers

I went for a ride in that car. It was pretty quick/fast. Quite impressive.

Please put a real cage in that car and take that riceboy piece of crap out and make an exhaust out of it or something.

You will die, and by die, I mean actually die and not exist anymore, if you wreck with that cage.

-Tom

When it comes to roll cages... Bolts = Bad! Welds = Good

Especially POS bolts for a ricer cage with NO triangulation and bars just sitting there waiting to kill you in case of a rollover.

-Tom

I asked them about the cage when I went for a ride and they said it was just temp.

Car look extemely good!! keep us posted.

I asked them about the cage when I went for a ride and they said it was just temp.
Hopefully by "temp" you mean they'll rip it out of the car by this Wednesday, urinate on it, and then set it on fire.

Hopefully by "temp" you mean they'll rip it out of the car by this Wednesday, urinate on it, and then set it on fire.

Everyone here in the states on nasioc that talks trash about the Cusco roll cages should slow down a little or even stop. The cage is nothing you post/read about here on nasioc by all the haters. It's approved in Japan as safe, not to mention how much it stiffens up the chassis for better handling.

Japanese MOT recognized roll bar.

"Japanese MOT (known as "SHAKEN", pronounced shakken) which is very severe and he has to be ready to support the car, since consumer protection is fierce. "

And the car is out there trying to set lap records, not wheel to wheel racing(though I don't know what the future plan is). So right now it doesn't need to worry about side impact braces. It just needs the light weight chassis rigidity it provides.

Not to mention, doesn't anyone on here watch JDM Options videos? I see cars on it all the time going around the track w/ Cusco cages.

Everyone here in the states on nasioc that talks trash about the Cusco roll cages should slow down a little or even stop. The cage is nothing you post/read about here on nasioc by all the haters. It's approved in Japan as safe, not to mention how much it stiffens up the chassis for better handling.

Japanese MOT recognized roll bar.

"Japanese MOT (known as "SHAKEN", pronounced shakken) which is very severe and he has to be ready to support the car, since consumer protection is fierce. "

And the car is out there trying to set lap records, not wheel to wheel racing(though I don't know what the future plan is). So right now it doesn't need to worry about side impact braces. It just needs the light weight chassis rigidity it provides.

Not to mention, doesn't anyone on here watch JDM Options videos? I see cars on it all the time going around the track w/ Cusco cages.


Agreed with Proto.

Cusco does not make a product because it looks pretty in the car. They make products that function. A roll bar does not have to have 459858478563 points to be the best. You can have a "race shop" make monkey bars all day long, doesn't mean they're gonna get recognized by major racing associations.

Cusco has taken the time to get recognized in Japan as a leading manufacturer of quality racing components. I really don't think professional racers would put their live's at risk if they weren't confident in the product.

Chris

And the car is out there trying to set lap records, not wheel to wheel racing (though I don't know what the future plan is). So right now it doesn't need to worry about side impact braces. It just needs the light weight chassis rigidity it provides.
Good luck with that side impact thing.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/02/26/27s_brundle_wideweb__430x295.jpg


If it doesn't meet sanctioning regs for any North American or European sanctioning body, it's probably not safe. :lol:

Cusco has taken the time to get recognized in Japan as a leading manufacturer of quality racing components. I really don't think professional racers would put their live's at risk if they weren't confident in the product.

Chris
Show me a single vehicle running in a real (sanctioned) series in Japan that is using a bolt-in Cusco cage. Please.


Look, I'm not trying to attack anybody. The car looks fantastic and sounds like it has the "go" to back it up. Just for the love of god, put a real cage in the car.

Show me a single vehicle running in a real series in Japan that is using a bolt-in Cusco cage. Please.
You're missing the whole point, it's not being used in that type of racing. Go grab some Options videos(as previously mentioned) and you'll find the Cusco cage in all sorts of cars drifting and doing time attacks.

You're missing the whole point, it's not being used in that type of racing. Go grab some Options videos(as previously mentioned) and you'll find the Cusco cage in all sorts of cars drifting and doing time attacks.
Options videos? I thought we were talking about motorsport. That is what this forum is titled, yes?

Along with the Options vids, I'll go grab a copy of Legend Of Speed while I'm at it. :lol:

Ok! Thanks to everybody worried about the safety. This is obviously not the safest cage in the market but this car is not going to road racing yet! Since doors are stock and no weight reduction was performed we dont want a heavier cage on it! This would do for our needs until the moment. We are considering to upgrade it later. Our first event will be on August and we really want the subaru comunity to be part of the team on the event, until now is on the 5 and 6th on Texas World Speedway. This was a base setup since it was built on 5 days and there's a lot of thing that are on the upgrade/ delopment list. We are happy with what we have but going for much more.

Any coments or question are well received!

Miguel Jr.

Door to door racing or not. That cage is a piece of junk and is not approved by ANY sanctioning body in the US for *anything*. Good Luck with that. On a roll or a hit with a tire wall, that cage will collapse, killing you in the process.

-Tom
who doesn't want to see people with nice cars die.

edit: If you don't want side protection, you would be much better off with a cheap light bolt in ROLL BAR, that is reinforced in the proper locations and will protect you during an unintended off on track while you are going 10/10ths trying to set lap records.

^ What Tom said.

I'm surprised that the track would let you use their facility with that thing in the car, waiver or not. It's actually less safe than running without a cage.

A triangulated roll bar would be perfect for your purposes I would think.


Best of luck to you with the project! I'll be following the car's development, keep us posted as things come together.

Show me a single vehicle running in a real (sanctioned) series in Japan that is using a bolt-in Cusco cage. Please.


Look, I'm not trying to attack anybody. The car looks fantastic and sounds like it has the "go" to back it up. Just for the love of god, put a real cage in the car.

Not taking offense at any comments...public forum, i know the name of the game. We're all adults here...

http://www.cusco.co.jp/04m_sport/04gt/04gt_top1.html
^
Uses a Safety21 cage, manufactured along side the Cusco cage. Proper bracing and proper bends will protect the driver. Show me what parts of this cage will collapse during a roll.

It's actually less safe than running without a cage.

If that were true it would not be MOT recognized in Japan would it?

You think the JGCT car uses a bolt in cage? or somethign that is "manufactured" rather then build from scratch and correctly engineered? Come on man, common sense here.

As far as the cusco cage. Look at it. There is no triangulation and those tubes will bend like pretzels on an impact. The main hoop will collapse as there is nothing holding it up, the front downtubes will collapse as ditto, there is nothing there. Gah. I'm done :) Its your guys' lives. Whatever.

-Tom

So you are saying that a manufacturer would not use a product they sell? You are also stating they will not allow public use of a correctly engineered bar? So all the Cusco bars out there are incorrectly designed and they have no place anywhere except the street?

Chris

You can lead a horse to water , but you can't make him drink.

What type of rotors are those and where can I get the thermometers that are stuck onto the calipers?

And if by the street you mean a show car that DOES NOT see the street or actually be driven, then yes you are correct. In no way is that cage allowed on US roads.

-Tom

And if by the street you mean a show car that DOES NOT see the street or actually be driven, then yes you are correct. In no way is that cage allowed on US roads.

-Tom
Sorry, but my old '02 WRX driven daily on the streets had the same cage in it and passed safety inspections both in CA and TX. You're wrong.

But back more on topic with the original thread, what's lined up next on the modifications list?

So you are saying that a manufacturer would not use a product they sell?

Oh, I'm sure they'd use it on a show car. On a race car they'd put in a proper roll cage.


You are also stating they will not allow public use of a correctly engineered bar?


Who ever said it was "correctly engineered" to increase the safety of the car? It's a show piece from the get go. It's designed to be a piece that bolts in the car without welding, which is a separate design goal from a piece that actually increases the safety of the vehicle.



So all the Cusco bars out there are incorrectly designed and they have no place anywhere except the street?


If, when you say "cusco bars" you mean "cusco roll cages that look like this one", then yes. Let's not slide down any slippery slopes here, or put any words in anybody's mouth.

That thing doesn't even belong on the street, it only belongs on a trailered show car.

Sorry, but my old '02 WRX driven daily on the streets had the same cage in it and passed safety inspections both in CA and TX. You're wrong.

But back more on topic with the original thread, what's lined up next on the modifications list? Sure buddy :lol: :lol:

-Tom

Safety inspections in Calif??? What are you talking about, we don't have those here. We have Smog inspections, and nothing more.

Not debating on if it is the best or not or the safest or not but this the info I got from cusco's web page:

Cusco D1 Roll Cage

-40mm chromoly pipes used, which are 33% lighter compared to other conventional steel cages.
-Lightweight joints used to increase safety with competition roll bar design layout.
-Strategically mounted to increase maximum body rigidity.
-Bar layout is designed from extensive hands on experience. Bar structures designs are based on feedback directly from the racetrack, which is proven to be effective. Not only are you going to recieve a stylish bar, but you will also be receiving a bar with a purpose.
-Japanese MOT recognized/certified roll bars.

By the way as soon as we get rip of some unecesary weight we will go with a more sofisticated roll cage.

Back on topic...

It's a nice performing vehicle. I'm anxious to see how the car does in future events.

Chris

Thanks,

It's good to here people like it!

Hello,

As Chief Technical Steward for the United States Touring Car Championship, I can tell you that you would not pass tech at one of our races or at a NASA sanctioned racing event with that cage. That said, at an HPDE, they'd probably let you go, because they allow anything that isn't absurd and some things that are (S2000s should be required to have real roll bars).

Personally, I would not want a Time Trial car to have a fake cage in it. As several others have said, I would rather have no cage than have some big bars that are available for my helmet to smack into and that get in the way of the proper deployment of the stock airbags.

If I was not ready to install a real cage, I would leave in place the stock seats and airbags and rely on real engineered safety instead of a fake cage. I would, if I valued my life, install a roll bar rearward of the seat bolsters so that the roll bar didn't interfere with the side airbags.

That Cusco cage has so many problems it's not even worth a detailed discussion. Don't drive that car on the street without a helmet, though, because in an accident, you've now created a skull-splitting safety hazard that will turn a 15-30 mph "mild" impact into a certain death.

Moving beyond the cage discussion, great power numbers and really clean looking TT car! Congrats and once you make it safe, have some serious fun at the upcoming events.

Joel Gat
Chief Technical Steward
USTCC

and

Crew
GOTO:Racing
Grand Am Cup ST
Legacy GT

Not taking offense at any comments...public forum, i know the name of the game. We're all adults here...

http://www.cusco.co.jp/04m_sport/04gt/04gt_top1.html
^
Uses a Safety21 cage, manufactured along side the Cusco cage. Proper bracing and proper bends will protect the driver. Show me what parts of this cage will collapse during a roll.
You do realize that the JGTC car you linked to is a full tube framed car with a carbon fiber body on it that covers a suspension based on a double-wishbone suspension design instead of struts and is not AWD right? :)

I also vote no on the Cusco cage.

-Biggly

Ok! Thanks to everybody worried about the safety. This is obviously not the safest cage in the market but this car is not going to road racing yet! Since doors are stock and no weight reduction was performed we dont want a heavier cage on it! This would do for our needs until the moment. We are considering to upgrade it later. Our first event will be on August and we really want the subaru comunity to be part of the team on the event, until now is on the 5 and 6th on Texas World Speedway. This was a base setup since it was built on 5 days and there's a lot of thing that are on the upgrade/ delopment list. We are happy with what we have but going for much more.

Any coments or question are well received!

Miguel Jr.
Hey Miguel--a bit of advice from someone that's seen many people die at the race track, and had his own drivers die on track: forget all of the 'this isn't W2W racing, so he doesn't need a real cage' talk.

A failed tire at an inopportune time, brake failure, hub failure, wheel failure, stud failure, bad off that causes the car to roll, or anyone of a hundred other unexpected scenarios can have you on your lid. That's then the bolted joints start coming at your head and torso. That's bad.

I'm a big fan of Cusco products--my SPEED GT STI carries a few, but despite what the Japanese consider to be safe, what everyone on the 'Option' DVD's might do, or anyone else that isn't a racing professional might say, I've seen enough random, silly, 'damn, I never would have expected that to happen' type problems cause cars to have serious impacts. The 'other people use it and think it's OK' mentality is silly. It comes from not knowing any better.

Any bolt-in cage isn't going to give you the best chance at survival. That's what we're talking about anyways, isn't it. The goal is to do everything possible to ensure you go home safely at the end of each day, and that Cusco cage isn't going to give you the greatest odds of doing so.

With the power and grip you've now got to play with, cornering speeds and strain on your drivetrain will be a lot higher than before--the odds of an off or component failure are greater as a result, no matter how good your crew is or your parts are--it's just part of the game.

Knowing that, I'd rather have you be overly safe than minimally safe.

If you'd like the contact info for some VERY experienced road racing roll cage fabricators (even just to talk to and get ideas from), shoot me a PM.

aside from it being a bolt in, the main issue is that the cage is not triangulated in any way, it will collapse like an accordian

aside from it being a bolt in, the main issue is that the cage is not triangulated in any way, it will collapse like an accordian
Sheesh, come on. WHATEVER!

Don't you know anything shown in a 'JDM Option' video is by nature impervious to triangulation? The cage is made from a blend of kryptonite and adamantium anyways.

pio, bro, you SERIOUSLY gotta do your research before posting luch lunacy.

keke ^_^

henceforth all cages and meshes shall hexagon based, as commandeth by ye Holy Saint of Greater than Triple Sided Polygon.

Just curious, why did you stay with a TMIC?

Japanese shaken doesn't allow a roll cage, afaik, in a street car. What they may mean by that statement is that, because it is bolt-in, they can remove it before the shaken inspection. :)

Besides, many of the "inspection" systems in Japan are made up by the manufacturers themselves, we found this out towards some other areas of parts manufacture.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com | www.sevenphotos.com

Joel Gat and MPME, really apreciate your advice. I was aware of the mechanical failures I can have and all of those things but I think never took two minutes to analize that safety issue, I think I just went with "brand" description and did not give any extra effort on those details. It will be change for the next event on august. Again thanks for a proper describe advice!

Why TMIC? I like quick response instead of laggy FMIC and I haven't seen such a big performance loss thru sessions.

Just curious, why did you stay with a TMIC?
less lag with the top mount. they may go to v mount later. it's posted in this thread or the intitial one somewhere.

Rode in "Project STI" last weekend. This beast sounds awesome and pulls like crazy. Good work by the people at EDO. Can't wait to see it in action on the track (with a new roll cage).

Here's the dyno graph of the engine:

http://s04.picshome.com/fc3/dscf0066.jpg

Question: Is your FP red has a 7 cm exhaust housing with the standard internal waste gate? Also you using the FP supplied actuator?

Thank you.

Sheesh, come on. WHATEVER!

Don't you know anything shown in a 'JDM Option' video is by nature impervious to triangulation? The cage is made from a blend of kryptonite and adamantium anyways.

pio, bro, you SERIOUSLY gotta do your research before posting luch lunacy.

d00d, come on. triangulation? Isn't that some Greek thing, like Pythagorus or sumthin'? When is the last time you heard of someone putting some Grecian part on their car? Never, that's when! JDM FTW!!1212`


ok, I admit, I suck at teh 7334.

Anyway, being serious, the car seems pretty cool (minus the cage). I checked out some the lap records for TWS and I must say, I'm quite impressed! Granted, it doesn't look like the SCCA runs that configuration much lately, but still, being faster than T1 by a fair margin is impressive, as well as only being ~4sec off of FF and GT1 :) Good job, guys!

keyser_soze:
We are using 7cm3 exh. housing with a Tial 44mm external WG, I'll like to thanks Robert from Forced Performance for the great turbo :banana:.

10th Warrior:
Where can I get this type of data?
I still think we can take a second off, since I never driven the track before there were two corners I know I can do faster.

Thanks,

here you are:

http://www.sowdivscca.org/trackrecords.aspx

These are the SCCA track records. I have no idea what, if any, other sanctioning bodies run timed events on the road courses there. Keep up the good work :)

Thanks a lot!

Japanese shaken doesn't allow a roll cage, afaik, in a street car. What they may mean by that statement is that, because it is bolt-in, they can remove it before the shaken inspection. :)

Besides, many of the "inspection" systems in Japan are made up by the manufacturers themselves, we found this out towards some other areas of parts manufacture.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com | www.sevenphotos.com

Japanese "shaken" allows a roll cage in a car as long as the vehicle has been inspected, and approved, as a "kaizosha", ie, modified vehicle

We have a GC-8 4-Door highly modified with back seat removed, welded in roll cage, etc. etc. and it breezes through "shaken", we've sold dozens of other vehicles with roll cages welded in that had "shaken" and were 100% street-legal

With regard to regular JDM production models; manufacturer safety standards are entirely self-regulatory in Japan; the only "Federal" requirement is for exhaust emissions regulations, which are strictly monitored for both new and used vehicles, and noise.

For aftermarket exhausts, dB limits are generally observed to JASMA ( JIS standards ) and marked + certified as such. A JASMA exhaust will come with a certificate which makes MOT acceptance a given ( s'long as you don't lose it! )

Otherwise modifications are amazingly liberal; it would make life very difficult for aftermarket manufacturers if that wasn't the case
The majority of "swap the parts out before the shaken" is done by owners who either can't be bothered applying for "kaizosha" status for their ride, or know the parts hanging on the vehicle won't pass the test

If a Unit is a low volume production item, like the NISMO Skyline 400R or Subaru 22B, the manufacturers present the supplying Dealership with a "Kaizosha" certification which is then presented to the DMV where the Unit is first registered

This includes overall dimensions of the vehicle, a photograph of the underside showing what suspension and exhaust modifications have been done, and the full specification of exhaust dB's, torque and HP, top speed in each gear shown in graph form

When the vehicle is subsequently "shaken" inspected; the inspectors are supposed to compare the filed certification with the vehicle and make sure it's the same as what was manufactured. If it isn't, additional modifications can either be approved and added to the "kaizosha" cert. OR, if modifications aren't approved, the vehicle has to be repaired to the satisfaction of the "shaken" inspectors

Sorry to hijack your thread; been importing, exporting, and been "shaken, but never stirred" here since 1991....

Graham Ware
www.japanvehicles.com

Note Graham's specific use of the term "welded" when referring to the roll cages which pass kaizosha shaken.

Nice dyno numbers.... I driven that car when it was in stock form and I couldn't handle the power. Now must be a damn beast!

Nice dyno! Btw the front scoop is really cool!

Thanks Quad3d@work for the compliment. We went back to the Texas World Speedway for Testing. We got 1min 12sec on the track.

Did you still remember the straight away on the speedway, when it was stock, you achieved the max speed at around 110mph? The last time when we tested it, it was 153mph. Hope you can come drive again for us!