I WAS AT BUTTONWILLOW TRACK RUNNING 070 TIRE. THE TIRE MADE LOTS OF NOISE AT THE LIMIT BUT STEERING WAS QUICK RESPONSIVE BUT NOT ENOUGH GRIP, I WAS DROPING TWO WHEEL ON THE DIRT AND LOT'S OF CORECTION, IT MADE ME VERY BUSY. SO I DICIEDE TO PURCHASE THE TOYO RA1 235-40-17 AT THE TRACK. I RAN THE 2ND SESSION WITH THE TOYO AND GRIP WAS VERY GOOD, BUT MY STEERING WAS VERY SLOW AND WITH EXTRA GRIP MY CAR START TO DIP MORE THAN I LIKE SO MY NEXT TRANSTION FOR THE NEXT CONER WAS LATE. :mad: THE CAR FELT LIKE LOOSEY GOOSEY. I'M RUNNING STOCK SHOCK AND SWAY BAR WITH EBIC SPRING. I WAS WONDERING IF THE STOCK TIRE NARROW WIDTH IS MORE FIRMER SIDEWALL THAN DOT RACE TIRE?
IS IT SUPENSION IS TOO SOFT FOR DOT RACE TIRE?
IF I GO WITH THICKER SWAY BAR WHAT MM OVER STOCK RECOMMENDED WITHOUT PUTING TOO MUCH STRESS ON TIRES?

How many track events have you done?

Last Year I Done About 3 Event With 070 This Year 4 Event So Far

stop yelling please :(

There are a few things going on here. Your brand spankin' new RA'1 s are not really going to perform all that well on the track until they've been heat cycled. Second, they are at full tread depth so they are going to be pretty squirmy feeling until you wear them down or have them shaved to a respectible level. lastly, as you mentioned, because the RA1's have more ulitmate stick than the 070's you will experience much more body roll due to the higher traction and lateral forces. Running any r-compound tire will induce much more body roll on a stock suspension.

so yes, the stock suspension setup will be much too soft for an R-compound tire. At the least upgrade your front and rear swaybars.

The RA-1 sidewall is not as stiff as the RE070. That plus the fact that the RA-1's were new, have a lot to do with why the car felt "loosey goosey".

I have 25mm hollow front and rear Cobb anti-swaybars. I like them a lot. They reduce body roll a lot.

What is your setup? Stock? Original factory alignment settings? What was your tire pressure?

The RE-070 is a great tire that is fine for track days with enough grip to take a persons skills well past 3 - 5 track days. You would have been better off with an alignment and proper tire pressure than competition tires (sorry I still can't consider the RA-1 an R compound but "competition" tire fits).

Your driving can improve significantly on RE-070's for well past 30 track days. Your RA-1 money woulda been better spent on an alignment, an air gauge and more seat time.

Improve your lap times not your car's lap time ability. That is what driver's events are about the driver not the car. Even if you turn faster laps with RA-1s it doesn't mean you are driving faster. I bet you are farther from the fastest lapt time RA-1s would take your car than how far you are from the fastest time the 070's would turn. Consistently go as fast as the 070's can - then you are ready for the tires to be upgraded.

Don't worry about the noise.

I'd go back to the RE070s and wear them out. They are great tires for a track day, especially if you can get some good negative camber up front (use camber bolts or adjustable strut tops if possible). Sure they are noisy, who cares? Your RAs may get noisy too as they get heat cycled and worn. My Dunlop Super sport Races got to be loud as heck as time went on.

Once they're gone you'll be able to get more out of the RAs.

Todd

when I was using toyo I went close to same time as 070. I was running 44 hot F and 43 hot R. Yes I am running -2.75 camber f and - 1.45 r with 0 tow with perrian caster upgrade. But I was little less agressive on turns because it was new. My 070 wore out point that I was going to replace the tire anyway. I have to wait till when I go to willow spring with aftermarket sway bar and see how car handles. My 070 was a great tire when new, like I said it was heat cycled too many times at the track and street and the traction went away. I thought toyo R compund tire would have more stiffer side wall but not in this case. so the steering was bit slower than 070. I hope sway bar would correct this problem. The toyo changed their tread rating from 50 to 100. They told me couple years ago they didn't chage the compound but I could tell it wasn't same.

Supposedly Toyo did not change their compound, they found that it was wearing much longer than they previously expected so they simply raised the tread wear rating.

The Toyo's do have a softer sidewall, especially compared to other R-comps and even the 070. However you might be comparing your 070's with minimum tread deapth to a full tread deapth Toyo. There is definitely going to be slower steering response due to tread squirm. You should have had them shaved! They would also last longer as well.

235/40/17 RA1's ... what the World Speed Challenge cars use, as well as some other spec tire racing series. Good enough for them ... with cars set-up to use them. They do start with shaved RA1's of course ...

Pretty much nothing has a stiffer side wall then the 070's. With a softer sidewalled tire you need to start your inputs a bit earlier.

In case you didn't pick up on it ... writing in Caps is the equivalent of yelling.

Um.. any more

just one ..............

i like my 070's. you should try to pick up a slightly used set so it's much cheaper than new ones and especially cheaper than the toyos. im taking my 070's to their 3rd track day and they still have some good meat left, hopefully they'll last for a 4th.

and if it matters, i have -1 in the front, whatever stock is in the back, with zero toe all around.

cap is yelling? ooops sorry

I have used stock 070s and 235/40r17 RA1s on the track on my '04 STi. The RA1s clearly have much superior cornering grip, and do not get slippery during a long session like the 070s or other street tires.

I have to agree with others that it's driving experience, and that you're not even close to the performance envelope of your 070s let alone the RA1s. A few years ago, when I was much "greener", I co-drove Patrick Olsen's car at the OTC with Yokohama's 032R. At that time, I also didn't find that much difference between the R compounds and a good street tire like the S-03s or T1-S. Of course there was a huge difference (I believe Pat was about 2 seconds faster with the 032Rs on the 60-sec Las Vegas infield course), just that I couldn't appreciate it at that time.

I also think the preassure in the Toyo's is to high...

Ray

I also think the preassure in the Toyo's is to high...

Ray
I totaly agree. I run my ra-1 lower and they provide much better grip and steering response.

I tend to run them no more than 40-41 psi hot (front & rear). I have coilovers with a low spring rate, aftermarket bars and a couple of degrees of negative camber up front - and I still destroy the edges of the tires - and I still can't spell :-)

The Toyo site has some info, but if you get to high, the tires have lousey traction, and the other point mentioned, these tires LOVE being heat cycled...

HTH

Ray