Guess I'll be the first to post here.

If you have had problems with your first gear synchro on your WRX and brought it to the dealership, could you please share your experience.

I can't shift to first unless I am going below 10 or so and want to bring it into the dealership sometime to see what they say.

Mines at aboutr 15mph, but it's the same thing since day 1 I had the car. Same when I had the RS. I kind of look at it as normal for the car with it's short 1st gear.

But if anyone's had this situation and a dealer said it's a problem, I'd love to hear about it too.

--kC

had my WRX since monday...seems a little like that going into 1st from 2nd < 10 MPH. Doesn't bother me too much..gonna see how it is after 1k breakin and before any mods.

~V

Don't you guys read your manuals?

It's not a syncrho problem. Subaru intentionally made it that way to protect the engine. If you were driving at even 30-40 and put into first gear, it's a lot of work for the engine to match up the speed. I am not sure what RPM it should be in first gear at 30mph, but if it goes above 7-8k or higher, there's a chance you will get a blown engine.

If you were even at 10mph, it won't allow you to shift to 1st unless you double clutch. If you just forcefullly shift into first, it will break the syncrho, and that's when you take it to the dealer.

If you really need to shift to 1st when moving, put the gear in neutral with the clutch engaged, blip the throttle so the rpm reaches where it should be in first gear at the speed you are travelling and then change it to first gear, it will go in. It's called double clutching.

I'm sure rev matching helps during a roll, but how about from a stop.

Occasionaly (usually when people are in the car so they can laugh at me) at a dead stop with the clutch ALLLLL the way down I try to shift into first and GRIND.

Took it to a dealer, does it less but still does it.
I don't even think the syncros are involved at a stop the input and output shafts should both be at 0.

I'm waiting for someone else with some free time to bug there dealer and get his fixed.

-Ed

this is not a problem... it's the way the subaru is made to PROTECT your car... like was stated, read your manuals.. get to know your car a bit better...

j.
www.subiegal.com

Yeah, what Subie Gal said. A properly functioning VW does the same thing.

If you get a grind trying to go into first, you have to put the clutch in first :)

seriously, though I do get this at a stop, where it doesn't want to engage. I think it is just a sweet spot (or, unsweet spot) where the engagement teeth are at just the wrong position. I have learned that when it happens, I can always select second, which moves the gears enough to get into 1st.

(at stop light)
doh!doesn't want to go to first.
(select second, and then first again)
That easy!

should it be like that? well, it isn't broken, just unrefined. They could have tuned the enagement gear to get first easier, but maybe like Jamie said, they decided to go for longevity.

:rolleyes: Hahahahaha

Originally posted by imprezadan
A properly functioning VW ...

Short of being at a dead stop, 2nd gear is a far better option in any case!

It is the same way with most of the MT cars I've driven. I've never owned an automatic. I would like to hear if anyone has experienced a MT that allows for easy shift-in into 1st at above 10, 15mph.

first always like that

mine would pop out of first when pressure was let off the acclerator. brought it in, they rebuilt 1st and 2nd gear with all the synchros being replaced and a bunch of related hardware, if I got real ambitious I could dig out the order. took about a week

speed safely

Brian :devil:

Originally posted by hkwan
It is the same way with most of the MT cars I've driven. I've never owned an automatic. I would like to hear if anyone has experienced a MT that allows for easy shift-in into 1st at above 10, 15mph.
What manual transmission cars are you talking about? Definately not Hondas, Toyotas or Nissans.
If you rev-match properly when you're double clutching there is no reason why you couldn't downshift into 1st at 30mph or so. I used to do it all the time in my Integra GS-R and my Celica and my other Integra...
It's a question of technique... and a LOT of practice... but it's doable.
As far as the WRX goes, I haven't tried very hard to do it, since the transmission is a weak point, unlike a Honda or Toyota product. However if someone says that the manual reads that there's a gear lock, I'd believe them, especially since I have unsuccessfully tried downshifting to first in an AutoX but I was blaming that on owning the car for less than 2 weeks.

I've read the manuals. On the manual transmission there is a "reverse check mechanism" which prevents a direct 5th-to-reverse shift but there is nothing designed into the transmission to prevent a shift into 1st above any particular speed.

Try this. At 25 mph in 2nd gear, depress the clutch and shift to neutral and release the clutch. Then depress the clutch again and shift into 1st. If it won't go into 1st without grinding, take it to your dealer and get it fixed.

For reference, here's the section of the 2002 Impreza Owner's Manual that describes the operation of the manual transmission:

down shift into 1st? mine does, but i do it realizing ITS A BAD
IDEA!

on a trip we were allowed to drive ferraris, porsche, audi tts, etc all moded our two rules were: take dips at angles and NEVER downshift into first until we were COMPLETLY STOPPED.

2cents

One of the reasons I bought up this issue is because in my '91 prelude which I have been driving for the past 6 years or so, I can shift to first at 30 or 40 if I want to without any problems other than the tach redlining. I've been readjusting my driving style for how the WRX functions though... It's also that when I first got the car, it used to shift into first at higher speeds than I can now without griding. I have about 3500 miles on the car.


Originally posted by hkwan
It is the same way with most of the MT cars I've driven. I've never owned an automatic. I would like to hear if anyone has experienced a MT that allows for easy shift-in into 1st at above 10, 15mph.

Never downshift into first... okay but I was in an autox the other weekend and their was this really tight hairpin turn and everytime I exited it in second the engine sort of bogged and I was exiting really slowly and I thought loosing alot of time. I tried one run downshifting to first but it didn't want to go into gear so I just put it back into second. Was there anything I can do here or just live with it and try to make the time back somewhere else??

My other two vehicals both shift into first at 25-30 without hesitation. It makes for a good jolt if you are trying to go to third. :devil:

During an autocross you cando the 2-1 downshift, but you're taking chances. Sooner or later the first gear syncro is going to fail.

For reference, here's a table from the 2002 Impreza shop manual:

jon, how can i get access to this manual

I have no problem getting my WRX to slip into 1rst at 26-27 mph consistently. I am surprised that anyone would suggest that it is "normal" for a manual trans (of any make) to behave otherwise.

It is completely unacceptable for people to have to slow down to 5-10 mph or even come to a complete stop and shift into 2nd before being able to shift into 1rst.

I would suggest that anyone who has a WRX that behaves otherwise take it into their dealer before the warranty expires. This could even be a safety issue under certain circumstances.

Why in the hell do you NEED to shift to 1st at 30-40mph? That is just stupid. Learn to drive before you start with the Subaru can't make a tranny BS.

SlideWRX

When I drove Tactical trucks in the Army, they taught us when stopped to shift into 2nd before 1st. I've always done that every since out of habit and its been over 15 years now! I've had many cars since then,both domestic and foriegn,with standard tranny's and almost all of them have seemed to not want to let me shift into first now and then...even while at a stop. Guess all those years were good for something after all-

midwest

p.s.
I've driven Porches,Maseratis,and Farraris who's trannys acted touchy now and then too.

You don't necessarily need to shift into first at 30-40 MPH, but I would say it would be *nice* to be able to downshift into first going faster than 5mph. My WRX will grind while I try downshifting going 10 MPH. I've been happy with the transmission overall, it's just the first gear syncro seems to be the weakest link. Double clutching(release the clutch between gear shifts) does not help in any way. Rev matching helps a little bit, but it's also very picky, and a lot of the time it will still grind.

Originally posted by HIHO
Why in the hell do you NEED to shift to 1st at 30-40mph? That is just stupid. Learn to drive before you start with the Subaru can't make a tranny BS.

You own an AWD now and there are some different rules involved. 10 mph is the right and only time you really need to shift into 1st. Subarus are geared lower than most other cars too.

You can say it until you're blue in the face....

What does AWD have to do with the speed at which a trans can be shifted into first gear? My wife's AWD RAV4 will easily shift into first above 20 mph.

As stated above, my WRX will slip into first consistently at 26-27 mph.

As for *why* a driver would want to do this, it may be uncommon but there are situations that call for MAX acceleration--for example, let's say you're slowing down at an intersection when you notice one of those big Leach garbage trucks come up behind you at a high rate. It's obvious it isn't going to stop and you're about to be creamed *unless* you can grab first gear and nail the throttle. But toooo bad, the syncros don't work just right and you're forced to shift back into 2nd by which time you've been rammed by a big smelly trash truck. Ag-ra-vation!

The Rav4 is not the same AWD system as the Subaru.:lol:

As stated above, my WRX will slip into first consistently at 26-27 mph.

I doubt this is a true statement. You are the one that is having a problem with their syncros.

There must be something wrong with your engine too because I can take off pretty well in 2nd at any kind of rolling speed. Hell if the garbage truck rear ends you than sue'em.

Learn something about your car before you start telling everyone theirs is broken.

http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/lancia/58/technical_school/tech_index.htm#Traction%20and%20Brake

You didn't answer my question: What does AWD (or FWD or RWD) have to do with the speed at which a trans will slip into first gear?

Think about it. When the tranny is responsible for 4 wheels turning instead of 2 there is alot more stress. It is really simple. When you jerk an AWD car from 1-2k rpms to 6-7k rpms there is alot of stress that is not there in a FWD or RWD car. A Subaru unlike alot of other AWD cars as a REAL, even, distrubution of power. 50-50% and 60-40% to front and back. Alot of other AWD cars,trucks are really FWD untill a wheel slips. So your normal rules do NOT apply when you are talking about a TRUE AWD car.

Ok, my first post (I've only had the car for a few days), but I had to respond.

The reason I found this thread was because I was searching on google to find why I was having so much trouble downshifting into first from second at a reasonable speed. This is needed, especially in critcally important situations, because this car has a LOT of turbo lag, and it's hard to pull at 10mph in 2nd gear. When you've slowed down to enter an intersection, and then realize you have time to make a left turn if you go quickly, and begin to go, can't shift to first, go back to second, floor it, and get nothing because of turbo lag... that is a serious safety problem caused by a bad transmission.

First off, the reason many people talked about going into 2nd before 1st from a standstill in other cars: most gearboxes are a combination crashbox and synchro'd box, with synchros on all gears except 1st and reverse. Since these gears are only needed (theoretically) from a standstill, you don't really need synchros. Therefore, shifting into second allows you to get the drive shaft (I believe I have this the right way) moving at close to the speed of the first gear so that you can then shift to first more easily.

The WRX, however, has a "fully sychromeshed" gearbox, according to the manual. That, I assume, means that every gear, even first and reverse, has sychnros.

Now, if there's a block, an actual bar that steps in and prevents you from going into first from above 10 mph, that would be one thing. But that's not the case, because people are reporting a grinding sound, which indicates the synchro is NOT working. No matter how you cut it, a grinding synchro is NOT a safety feature. That's called permanent damage. Anyone saying that Subaru made the car to grind in order to save the engine is making a logical mistake, because that would trade the gearbox for the engine. Further, I'd rather burn out the first gear than total the whole car because I can't hit first and the engine bogs and I get nailed making a low speed left turn. That saves the gearbox but wrecks the whole car. Not good either.

So, does first have a synchro? If so, why can't you shift into it at a reasonable speed? If the engine can stand doing 30mph in 1st (which I'm pretty sure is possible) why can't you shift into it? If I shove the hell out of the gear and make it engage, the engine can take it. So am I meant to shove the gear? This is what you'd do in a Porsche, and let their best-around synchros do the work.

As for the lag, this is not a naturally aspirated Ferrari or a twin turbo Porsche. The twin turbo can be tuned to cut down on lag. This is instead a car with a big, laggy turbo, that needs gearing to keep it in the right rev range. You don't want to be sitting at 2k rpms waiting for the turbo to hit, because you'll be waiting a long time. That's when you need to downshift. I've driven other turbos (Saab 93, Audi 1.8T, VW GTI 1.8T, and Mazda RX-7) and they have less lag, especially the RX-7 with twin sequential turbo. The WRX has more power (maybe not than the 7), but the lag is greater.

To sum it up, there are times when the 2-1 downshift is necessary, no matter how good a driver you are. The turbo lag makes the downshift necessary. Blipping might work, by why is it needed? And no, this is a bug, not a feature. So what to do? Cram it into gear? Blip, even though it's slower? Take it to the dealer? Never drive at under 30 mph?

Would anyone shift out of 1st gear at 30+ miles an hour? Why would you downshift into it at anything close to that speed? That has to be wayyyyyy up there on the tach. IIRC my RS is pushing it at 20mph in first. If you are over 15 mph, 2nd gear should respond just fine. If you need to get to first to pull out from a roll, maybe you should have waited because your probably cutting someone off. Like it has been said before. The WRX is a Subaru, not a Honda, Toyota, ect. Every Subaru I've owned has disliked down shifting to 1st, along with my 87 GTI 2 85 Ford Rangers.

There are many real world situations in which it's perfectly fine to try and use 1st gear WITHOUT coming to a stop.

Steep hills, stop-and-go traffic, pulling out in traffic, u-turns, autox, etc. are all examples.

5 mph in second gear (in the WRX) just does not cut it. It is probably fine in an RS b/c of the extra torque, but 5-20 mph in 2nd gear in the WRX is ridiculous. You might as well open the door and push the car with your foot like Fred Flintstone.

It is true that you shouldn't be pulling out in traffic (i.e. cutting someone off) if your car can't accelerate fast enough. But it's embarrassing when grandma in her '82 taurus and Chong is his 79 VW minivan have enough power to pull out in traffic, but I don't in my WRX, because I can't get into 1st gear.

1st gear goes to 30mph in the WRX. Just because the PROBLEM affects nearly everyone w/ a WRX, doesn't mean it's not a problem.

So I guess a WRX with a 2.0 liter engine off boost has less torque and horsepower than my N/A 1.8 liter 127 hp GTI did in the same RPM range? That GTI was plenty driveable considering it was gutless until about 3800 rpm.

BTW, stop and go traffic does not require you to go in and out of 1st over 15-20 mph last I checked. As I said before, if you need first to pull out from a roll, you probably shouldn't be pulling out anyways. Except for auto cross all the things you listed are done from a stop, or darn close to it speed wise.

As far as the problem issue, I have said it before. Take a look at the transmission drive train sticky in this forum. There are less than 70 posts and that covers the whole drivetrain. There are way more than 70 WRX owners on this board. A vocal few does not make something a problem for 20,000 plus WRX owners.

[Originally posted by Keith99RS
So I guess a WRX with a 2.0 liter engine off boost has less torque and horsepower than my N/A 1.8 liter 127 hp GTI did in the same RPM range?


At 1k-2k rpm? Probably so. I've driven many cars and haven't found anything as gutless as the WRX at really low rpms.

Originally posted by Keith99RS
Except for auto cross all the things you listed are done from a stop, or darn close to it speed wise.


... it's the "darn close to it speed wise" where the tranny has problems. I am in stop and go traffic every day that requires downshifting to first - preferably without stopping.

I can do it by double clutching, and I don't really mind double clutching all the time because it's second nature now. However, it shouldn't be necessary on a transmission with synchros. If it grinds or won't go in at all, then the synchro isn't doing its job. Most Subaru owners are content to live with this (like me), or they're in denial that something isn't working.

Originally posted by Keith99RS
As far as the problem issue, I have said it before. Take a look at the transmission drive train sticky in this forum. There are less than 70 posts and that covers the whole drivetrain. There are way more than 70 WRX owners on this board. A vocal few does not make something a problem for 20,000 plus WRX owners.


I haven't posted in that forum, and 20000 WRX owners haven't even heard of this board. So that's hardly meaningful. Find me a bunch of owners who CAN downshift into first while moving w/o double clutching...

The_Saintz,
First of all, welcome to the club!
First gear does in fact have a synchro, and it usually works, but it is definitely not on par with the designs used in a modern Honda or Toyota transmission. The design Subaru uses is dated, and in desperate need of an update.
To downshift into first gear try one of the following techniques:
1) rev match and double clutch. This is what I have done since the car was new and I have never had a problem getting the car in first when rolling. This has worked for me in heavy traffic on the hills of San Francisco, and will probably work for you.
2) *Gently* push the gear shifter towards first gear. The syncros will eventually do their job and you will be able to engage first. I don't recommend this because a)it takes time, time that you probably don't want to spend in the example you gave above and b) once you get it in gear, you are going to have to rev match anyway or you'll send shock through the entire drive train.

This is an emotional issue on the board. For the record, I'm not defending the sub par design, just stating what works. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can't deal with it. You shouldn't *have* to rev match in a fully syncromeshed transmission, but in this case it is what works.

Originally posted by scott_gunn
[

At 1k-2k rpm? Probably so. I've driven many cars and haven't found anything as gutless as the WRX at really low rpms.

With all due respect, Scott, I think you need to recalibrate your butt dyno. Yes the WRX is lacking below 2G, but my '97 Civic was more gutless in the same rpm range. So was my '83 Sentra. The problem is, you get used to the power on boost, and when it isn't there, your butt "feels" like the car is motivating much slower than it is. Having said that, I've had to burn the clutch rounding corners up hill in San Francisco with the A/C on. Thankfully it is rarely hot enough to need the A/C in the City!:)

Stanley, thanks, good advice. I guess I can try slowly forcing it, but it's better to rev match.

Does anyone have experience with the following:

Their WRX lets them downshift into first at reasonable speed (say, around 20mph) without doing any fancy footwork?

Has anyone taken their WRX to the dealer and actually had them fix it so they could do the above?

Does anyone have a lightened drive shaft (believe that is the right part, connecting the gearbox to the clutch)? If so, does it actually allow the synchro to work better (has less rotational inertia for the synchro to counter)? I know this must be a rare part, but I assume they make it at least for the STi.

Thanks

Mine does it at a dead stop with the clutch mashed into the floorboard. It is definately a defect. Really started showing up after the clutch shudder redo.

Shifting into 1st at <10mph is NOT uncommon and is perfectly normal and should NOT grind. It should NEVER grind. Period. (Especially when stopped :mad: )

Had 1st gear grinding/synchro issue. Have about 31k miles and full vishnu stage 2 setup. Took it to local dealer and they replaced the synchros... should get the car back today. I expect them to last another 30k ;)

I have about 46,000 miles on my stock 2002 wagon. I have just recently started having trouble shifting into 1st at about 10-15 mph. This happens for instance in parking lots where I am looking for a space, or pulling around in the drive thru. This was not a problem when I first got the car, and the car has not been beaten up. I do have the extended warranty, so I will have it looked at someday. BTW, I am 30 and have been driving sticks exclusively since I was 17. Started with my stepmothers used 1985 DL wagon I got in 1990. Drove that for five years for 20,000 miles a year without a single problem in the tranny. Car died with 197,000 miles on the odometer, so my new Subie should not have problems at 46,000 miles.

Bump, just because I found this useful, though I have read teh owners manual this did not stick in my head, anyways I figured this is why the car does that. Thanks

I think the manual also says that 35mph is the limit for first gear.

never had issues getting my Rex into 1st...
and I drive it harder than most of you will ever conceive doing.

Jamie
www.subiegal.com

dude i know what you are going through, my car only has 3600 miles on it and I have only had the car for a couple of months, these are the list of problems that I have had to bring it in for:
1. New shift nob (they gave me one where the leather boot was not attacted to the shifter and they gave me the wrong shifter too.)
2. Trunk latch problem
3. The car kept swaying to the right and I had to have them check the allignment on the car (AT 3600 FREAKING MILES !!!!!!!)
4. The wipers would not go all the way down when i used them, they like paused at the bottom and then pushed itself down, it was weird.
5. My reverse was really really really hard to get into and kept grinding everytime I shifted into it. I have had really annoying issues in parking lots with this.
6. There were times when I parked my car onto my driveway (its a slope) and put the e-brake up, but the car would still role back.

** As we speak it is still at the dealership trying to get checking the transmission and e-brake.

I've always coasted to a stop.

My 01 RS (bought used) would grind into 1st 90% of the time until I put Red Line Synthetic into the gearbox. Now it's only about 10% of the time after 1000 miles on the synthetic. Try it.

I take back what I said earlier, i feel pretty stupid, but I went to the dealership to pick up my car and they not only checked the transmission, wipers, and e-brake, but they checked like every single other part on the car, IT WAS AWESOME. Basically, they a complete huge humonguous service on the car, they even checked the tire pressure levels !!!!!! THE DEALERSHIP WAS AWESOME. However, the verdict was the transmission was just fine and so was everything else. I think I was just over-reacting.

Don't feel stupid. At least your big enough to post the end result and the truth.

Here is the deal...

1) Temp of the transmission gear oil matters.. if it is not up to (or close to) operating temp, everything is going ton be hard to get into. You may find that it takes a few seconds while stopped before you can get into first. This is caused by cold oil and every manual transmission behaves like this (assuming it is lubricated).

2) Try double clutching to get it into gear. That is the solution to autocross. If you do this and you are not exceeding the rev limit of the engine, everything will be just fine. Personally, I wouldn't shift into first above 20mph.

3) If you find these answers unacceptable, change your gear ratios.... or buy an automatic transmission.

I agree w/ Knotsure....

Here is the deal...

1) Temp of the transmission gear oil matters.. if it is not up to (or close to) operating temp, everything is going ton be hard to get into. You may find that it takes a few seconds while stopped before you can get into first. This is caused by cold oil and every manual transmission behaves like this (assuming it is lubricated).

2) Try double clutching to get it into gear. That is the solution to autocross. If you do this and you are not exceeding the rev limit of the engine, everything will be just fine. Personally, I wouldn't shift into first above 20mph.

3) If you find these answers unacceptable, change your gear ratios.... or buy an automatic transmission.

I agree w/ Knotsure....




First off, you people must live in the middle of a field or maybe in Hazzard County with Bo and Luke Duke. . . .No traffic lights, yield signs, traffic.

I think it's pretty funny that alot of you can be so blind to a major Flaw in design. I refuse to put up with this problem.

I bought this car used 3 weeks ago. . . . the day I bought it I asked the service manager about not being able to put it into first gear unless Im doing 2-3 mph or stopped, he said that is the way Subaru made these. BULL CRAP!

At the time I trusted him that this is just the way they are. I went to another dealership close to where I work to pick up some filters and belts and such, I asked him, "whats up with first gear in these cars?" he said, "What do you mean?" So I explained to him what it was doing and he said no thats not right. . . had him drive it and a mechanic drive it, . .. .out come. . . . it's at the dealership being torn down and either replacing the synchro or 1st gear.

He proceeded to explain to me that Subaru sent them a bullitin stating that if first gear is chipped, do not warranty, from abuse.

So for all of you who think you have a problem (my experinces) you do. I would advise not putting it into gear at any speed you here the grinding, for most of us, we would like to be able to put it in at 5-10 mph (20-30 is nuts).

The chipped gear is a cheap way for Subaru not covering it under warranty. . . because of their bad synchro and people trying to cope with this problem they can easily chip a gear. (grinding leads to bad things). I will scan in my repair sheet when I get the car back.

$26,000 (new) and you have to put up with this cheap --- crap!
I owned a $7,000 Toyota Tercel that had a smoother shifting tranny.

The big question here is why don't we here people that have STI's bitching about this?

Oh, you tell me to change the gear ratios or buy an automatic. . . . ah . . .no.

Accept the fact that you aslo have a crappy tranny from Subaru.

First off, you people must live in the middle of a field or maybe in Hazzard County with Bo and Luke Duke. . . .No traffic lights, yield signs, traffic.


Yup, you got me... :huh:

Anyhow, please note that I was referring to people who have transmissions that are perfectly fine and are complaining about not being able to get them into first gear above 10mph. Obviously if your synchro is damaged, you will have problems.

That being said, I'm willing to bet that your transmission went bad from abuse. Assuming that you didn't cause it, the previous owner probably did that. If not abuse, then go buy a lottery ticket because it's pretty unusual to have a transmission just go bad, but it can happen.

FYI, it did happen to me (2002 Nissan SE-R Spec-V 3rd gear went bad), so I can empathise with you... dealerships are extremely reluctant to fix transmission problems.

Well with that being said. . . .it makes me feel better knowing that my Subie might be ok after this repair.

above 10 mph is insane to shift into first.

I had many people tell me these cars are strong. . . .stronger than alot of us think.
I hope I can run around 3 years from now saying the same thing.

above 10 mph is insane to shift into first.

:confused:

so you're telling me that pulling from ~1k rpms in 2nd is better than winding out the remaining 25+mph in 1st? :huh:

fwiw, i have become friendly with the double clutch, and it is good.. as is pennzoil synchromesh MT fluid. ;)

he said that is the way Subaru made these. BULL CRAP!

Can't agree more. I have 12K on my 04 MT5 and 1st is giving me fits. My feeling, and I susspect others will concure, is that unless it is clearly stated in the owners manual that first gear may only be engaged from a dead stop, then they owe a new first gear/syncro.

I went to my local dealer and, tried, to set an appointment.

Me: "i'd like to set up and appointment for some first gear/tranny warrantee work"

Dealer: "what did you do to it?"

Me: "I drove it" "...how do you guys address the bad syncos w/ 1st gear on these?"

Dealer: "we have never had any problems with them before"

Claiming "Abuse" is so obtuse and unresponsive that it makes me want to sell the damn car. I'm hoping another dealer will respond more favorably to my situation, despite my Kartboy shifter bushing & knob. As a back up I'm researching gear swaps. We all may be stuck. Like my 98 OB clutch... (gone at 22K)

I sold my WRX because of this. I had a long standing complaint that 1st and 4th gear would grind or not go in at all. After fixing a few other problems with the car (CEL kept coming on), they finally looked at the tranny. This was about 20,000 miles after my first logged complaint. The SOA rep's official position was that it was abuse - b/c there were signs of grinding gears. My response was that's what I brought the car in for - it grinds! They agreed to replace the synchros *one time only* as a sign of goodwill. The new synchros were hard to get into 1st so I sold the car.

Just had ours at the dealer for a bad syncro. It even grinds going into 1st at a standstill. Maybe the mechanic at the dealer is dumb or something. He said there's nothing wrong. Huh?!

Took the WRX to another dealer. Right away they said there was a bad syncro. I also had a CEL after the service at the other dealer and the new place pulled the ECU and sent it to the factory (or whoever). Now I have a lot more power and it is easier to get into first, plus no crunching while it is stopped going into first.
The first dealer never had a good attitude, the second one is great. They even replaced the clutch. These dealers are located in SoCal. The mechanic at the first dealer was bragging about being a rally racer. He saw our Rim of the World Rally sticker in the back window. What the hell is a "rally racer"? I worked SCCA Pro rallys and crew for a car now. Never once did I hear the term rally racer. Me thinks the mechanic there was missing a few wrenches!

I had mine repaired by the EXCELLENT people at Stohlman. The replaced first and everything to do with it (synchros, bearings, blah. blah)

But my car is scary stock and I had a previous documented problem that I beleived caused it. So maybe I had tyhat going for me.

Took the WRX to another dealer. Right away they said there was a bad syncro. I also had a CEL after the service at the other dealer and the new place pulled the ECU and sent it to the factory (or whoever). Now I have a lot more power and it is easier to get into first, plus no crunching while it is stopped going into first.


Wow !! Thats great news. Are you sure you brought it to a Subaru dealer and not a Saturn dealer :D

If I lived <1800 miles from you I'd ask for the dealers name and head over. But the gas, hotel, and time off from work costs exceed the price of me installing RA gears. Thanks for the update.

Happy motoring!

I had two sychros go at 7k miles. Since that, I've swithched to Redline synthetic. Many of you seem to have had synchro problems from the factory, but has anyone had sychros wear out after swithching to synthetic? I'm curious if the solution to the problem is just that simple?

The original dealer is about 60 miles away. The new one is near 80. We kinda live away from civilization. But we love it.

The original dealer is about 60 miles away. The new one is near 80. We kinda live away from civilization. But we love it.

I live 1000yrds from my worthless dealer, but drive 60 miles north to another state to another dealer for work. I'm going up next week and have then check out my sycros.

if it grinds stoped going into first its a bad syncro, if you have to rev match to make it go in join the club of every wrx owner. imo the wrx has 2 "special" traits that my supras and camaro didnt have that i had to get used to. A crappy 1st syncro, and a tranny that cant be wide open throttle shifted(camaro didnt like that much either).
Is it a sign of quality, NO, is it what i expect getting the perfformace i got for 22k, YES. Want a car that is this fast with awd that is "perfect" get out your 50k and get an s4. The most of us here didnt have 50k to spend so we live with some quirks.

I too, have a hard time shifting into first without grinding. It happens when rolling at speeds less than 10mph (I don't try it above that), and even from a standstill. It doesn't happen all the time from a standstill, only about 20% of the time; but when shifting into first when moving, it's about 90% of the time.

My problem with this is that I have a rather steep driveway on my house, and I need to be in first gear to ascend it. I live on a sleepy 25mph street, that I drive down in second gear, and I of course slow down to drive into my garage, at which point I have to downshift from second into first gear to make it up the slope. It's absurd to me that I should have to come to a complete stop in the middle of the road and shift into first before moving up my driveway.

The problem first reared its ugly head about two months ago. At a stoplight, with the clutch pedal completely in, I attempted to put the tranny into first gear, and was met instead with the sound (and feeling in my hand and arm) of metal on metal grinding. I shifted into second and back to first, and it was fine, but it was the first of a number of shocking experiences I've since had of the exact same nature.

So I took it to the dealer for my 30k service, and mentioned the problem. One of their service techs happened to be standing right there, and he said that it was normal. I said it most certainly was not, and they test drove the car. The report from the test drive says that they were "Unable to reproduce at this time," and that I should bring it back when it happens all the time, so they can reproduce it. What kind of bullsh|t is that?? They're basically telling me "We know your car is on an inexorable slope toward breaking, but until it actually falls apart, we don't care." In case anyone's interested, this was Findlay Subaru in Las Vegas. It's really unfortunate, because up to this point I've had a great relationship with them. And because my nest closest Subaru dealer is in Utah. :(

Anyway, I guess I'll have to put up with the problem until it fails or at least happens every time you try to use first.

One dealer in Riverside County said there was no problem with our syncro. They basically said we didn't know how to drive. Right there we decided the dealer does not need our business anymore. Went to another dealer in San Diego and they said it was a bad syncro. It was fine, but hard shifting after they replaced the syncro. Now the ugly problem is rearing its head again. It ground going into first with the cluch in at a stop. S**t!
What's the deal with the WRX 1st gear syncro? I used to drive cars with no 1st gear syncro, so I know how to use 1st! :p

FWIW....while some low friction synthetic transmission fluids may help the 1st syncro issue (RL-Shockproof/Motul 300), the only real fix are the special cryo teated "RA" type replacement gears.
And, just this weekend I saw the new micro polished set from Rallispec @ the NESIC meet. They are SWEET!!! I'm having a set installed in two months!!! Albeit a $2,500.00 fix....

FWIW - my syncro for first gear was replaced under warranty at ~59K miles. While they were in there, they also replaced the syncro for 4th gear with "updated parts" I believe.

A huge "thumbs up" to Subaru of Santa Cruz. If every Subaru dealership had their level of service, SOA's sales would double in short order.

FWIW....while some low friction synthetic transmission fluids may help the 1st syncro issue (RL-Shockproof/Motul 300), the only real fix are the special cryo teated "RA" type replacement gears.

:confused: How do new gears (whether cryo or not) "fix" synchros? Do you mean that the smaller step between gear ratios simply requires less synchronization? Or are there actually 'RA synchros'?

With my 2.5 RS, I've been seemingly okay cruising around at 10-20 mph in 2nd gear. Is that bad? should I double clutch back into 1st or can I continue to cruise around in 2nd?

With my 2.5 RS, I've been seemingly okay cruising around at 10-20 mph in 2nd gear. Is that bad? should I double clutch back into 1st or can I continue to cruise around in 2nd?

It's fine! Especially in a 2.5RS with it's shorter final drive, extra displacement and lack of turbo lag. I can cruise at 10mph in 2nd in my WRX without any sensation of lugging my engine, so your car should be breathing easy at that speed.

Awesome, thanx a lot!!!

FWIW - my syncro for first gear was replaced under warranty at ~59K miles. While they were in there, they also replaced the syncro for 4th gear with "updated parts" I believe.

A huge "thumbs up" to Subaru of Santa Cruz. If every Subaru dealership had their level of service, SOA's sales would double in short order.


Stanley, is your Subie modded? I have 61k on my '02 and recently I can't shift into first from a roll. It worked fine for 59k, now it doesn't. I paid for the 80k warranty before I realized I wanted more out of the car, turboback exhaust, springs, swaybars, kyb shocks, camber plates etc. Santa Cruz is a few hours away, but worth the effort to have work done there if they are mod friendly.

no power mods...but from what I understand Santa Cruz is reasonable when it comes to modifications. Reasonable does not always mean covered, though. It sounds like the only power mod you have is an exhaust...I'd guess it would be covered, but it's only a guess.
does your first gear grind, or is it just difficult? Even with the warranty work, I always have to double clutch/rev match going into first at any speed above ~2mph. The car has been that way since day one.

It grinds going into first if speed is over a couple mph, but until recently it would slide in at any speed. Maintenance has been meticulous, oil every 3k, tranny and rear diff every 25k, no receipts (at least for the labor) though as I'm a mechanic by trade and do all my own work. I've driven manual transmission cars and trucks for 25 years and this is the first problem I've ever had besides the occasional worn out clutch.

im not having too too much of a prob with 1st but i recently started having a big prob with 4th grinding while normal driving and sometimes while spirited driving

Could those of you that have been lucky enough to have a dealer that will fix the problem PLEASE post those dealers. The rest of us would like to give them our business. :)

I have found the dealer has control over the info they give Subaru to get the repair authorized. Yes the transmision is an old design and Subaru says that racing causes the problem so they won't fix it. Then why do they give away a year membership to the SCCA with the car? :confused:

Racing should not cause 1st and 4th gear synchros to fail. Think about it. If you're drag racing, you start out in first gear so no hard shifting there. Plus, don't most people finish the 1/4 mile in 3rd? (I don't know I've never done it). If you're autocrossing, then maybe you downshift once or twice to first. But I never hit 4th in the few autocrosses I've done...

Logic says 2nd then 3rd would be the most abused synchos from racing.