Trying to get a consensus as to when to add synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 into my WRX. I just got the 2nd oil change done last week. I currently have 7100 miles on the odometer. I thought about having the dealership (I have free oil changes for life of car) put in Mobil 1 if I supplied them w/the oil but haven't yet. Any thoughts as to when to do this...like next oil change?

Thanks,
Stephen

I've been using m1 since my first change...
love that stuff

its been recommened to wait until 10,000 miles before you switch over to synthetic....there have been some leaky gaskets reported from switching before....

Thanks wrx182, :)

I remembered reading something like that so I think that's why I didn't switch to synthetic on my 2nd oil change. I think the earliest I'll do it is the next oil change.

Stephen

I changed at my first oil change and so far everything is fine. Nothing is wrong and I will continue to do that. I recommend Mobil 1 10W30. Good Stuff. I use mobil 1 in both my Legacy GT and WRX.

scooby specialist in california suggested waiting between 15 and 20 k . by then alll the wear on the engine should be set so that would be a good time. im at 4500 miles and i cant wait thaat long . im torn as well. i d probably do it around 10 k which is waht you are thinking

will probably switch next change- I'm at a little over 12000 now
definately mobil1

speed safely

Brian :devil:

You are all crazy.

I changed at 1000 miles. The car should be fine. If you change to synthetic and gaskets start leaking I would be very scared. Oil should not cause that to heppen. If it does happen then something is wrong with the car and the dealer should fix the problem. Synthetic oil is better than regular oil and why not put it in at the begining. You are dumb if you don't. If you wait 10000 miles then you have 10000 miles of wear with a sub par oil. I would rather have 10000 miles with a real quality oil in my car.

Originally posted by H8YNERS
Trying to get a consensus as to when to add synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 into my WRX.



Well you're never going to get a consensus on this issue because everyone has a different opinion. There is a poll on this subject here: http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76169

IMHO the issue is blown out of proportion. The important thing is that you change your oil often enough but then how often to change is another debate.

i heard that if you are running a turbo it is best to use sythetic..is this true or stick to the 10,000 miles thing?

how come something as trivial as a stupid oil change gets 10 million response and a multitude of cross-threads, but a technical question, such as the one I posted kinda recently and the many others I've posted neeeever get answered, I don't even get the time of day for a, 'I dunno'........oooh welll

I changed at 1200 miles and ever since. I now have 18k miles and zero problems.

I was told by mechanics and a sythetic manufacturer back in the late 80's, that the only time the synthetics will cause leaks is if you switch to synthetics for a while and then try to go back to regular oils. Mainly because the gaskets have adapted to blocking it and will promptly leak like crazy if you go back.

Not that any regular sythetic user would want to go back, but would be a helpful note to second owner if you ever sell the car, or find yourself without access to synthetic.

my $0.02

If I remember correctly, the WRX owner's manual says that synthetic is NOT recommended. Does anyone know why? If you change to a "non-recommended" oil then shouldn't your warranty be comprimised?

It doesn't really matter if you change your oil often. If you change your oil every 3000 miles or so, you are fine with either dino or synthetic.
synthetic is suppose to last longer, but you should change the oil because of the dirty particles that gets trapped in the oil during use. Not because the oil degraded so much that you need to replace it.

Here is what I know from my ASE class on internal combustion engines. "Dino" oil, is made from crude oil, and has to be refined to get out the impurities. It is impossible to get out all impurities though, and those that make it into your engine contribute to oil getting dirty because they burn, discolor, and attract carbon. Also, crude oil was not "created" to be used in engines. Today's refinement processes and additives help a lot, but don't make the oil flawless. It was because of that that some scientist said "I wonder if I could "make" an oil that has only what you need, and nothing you don't need. Tada!! Synthetic! Synthetic, because it is man made, doesn't have impurities that burn or discolor or turn into sludge, and is SPECIFICALLY designed for internal combustion engines. There for, in theory, you can drive a lot longer before changing your oil if you have synthetic. As a test, put a drop of regular dino oil in a frying pan over high heat. See how long it takes before the oil turns black and hardens. Now do the same test with synthetic. You will be impressed.

Now, about when to switch. The only reason I THINK you might not want to switch to synthetic until after break-in is done is because the synthetic lubricates to well and would keep the enigne from ever truly breaking in all the way. (More friction in dino oil means more thorough break-in)

Let me know what you think.

-Andy

Read this months R&T someone wrote in this question and it was answered pretty thoroughly. I think that some justify using synthetic right away because cars like Porshe & BMW do it from the factory. I know that Porshe's are thoroughly tested before being sold so that might be the reason for using synthetic. For my car, I waited till 12k oil change.

M_Annequin

"If I remember correctly, the WRX owner's manual says that synthetic is NOT recommended. Does anyone know why? If you change to a "non-recommended" oil then shouldn't your warranty be comprimised?"


WHERE IN THE MANUAL DOES IT SAY THAT SYNTHETIC IS NOT RECOMENDED?

They can not void your warranty if you run synthetic because they are not paying for your oil changes. Go ahead and run synthetic if you like. I've noticed an improvement over dino-oil.

-JOE

You really should let your rings and such wear in before using synthetic. Here are my observations. YMMV.

Over the first year of ownership, MY99 RS experienced 14-18 miles per gallon for the first 7k-8k miles. Shifting proved very notchy and baulky for the first 7k miles.

Thereafter I had much improved shifting and mileage in the 21-23 mpg range.

Changed to Redline all around at 9k miles.

At about 30k miles noticed another improvement in mileage hitting an all time high of 26-27 mpg in daily driving.

Comments I've recieved from long-time Legacy drivers suggest that the EJ engines don't truely start to wear in until about 30k miles.

Currently at 53k miles. Experiencing no issues with the tranny clutch or engine. Also getting about 24-25 mpg in daily driving. I have to keep track of miles and $$ spent on gas for business purposes so this is fairly accurate.

Again YMMV.

YMMV= Your milage may vary?

I wish had kept better track of my car like that. What method do you use to record your data? Excel? or just a notebook and pen? Do you also keep a little pad of paper in your car for notes on gas payed? Let me know...I want to try and keep better track.

-Andy

I got tired of all the opinions on when to change to synthetic so I emailed SOA. Their answer is paraphrased here (until I get permission to actually post their email):



If you are going to switch to synthetic, switch at the first oil change - at the recommended 3000 miles.

That Fuji Heavy Industries has relaxed thier position on synthetic oil but the owner should follow the manual in regards to oil weight, API classification and when to change the oil.

Subaru has not tested all synthetic oils and thier effects on engine seals but the petro industry follows standards that meet Subaru's specifications. Subaru does not guarantee the performance of any brand of motor oil.

Use only use engine oil that meets or exceeds the API classification designated in the Owner's Manual for the vehicle.

Use engine oil that meets the VISCOSITY requirements for the ambient temperatures under which the vehicle will be operated as outlined in the Owner's Manual.

(The following was emphasised in the response)
Follow the maintaince schedule outlined the service and warrenty manual - don't deviate. Some sythetic motor oils recommend extending the change intervals. Subaru does not recommend this - stay with the schedule in the manual.

Mark

Yes, I got a similar response from SOA so I switched at my first oil change and have not experienced any leaks. I agree with Jasno999, if changing to synthetic caused leaks I would be very worried. I believe oil leaks is not something common with Japanese cars and I better stop there less I be accused of being unpatriotic. :p

Originally posted by Jasno999
M_Annequin

"If I remember correctly, the WRX owner's manual says that synthetic is NOT recommended. Does anyone know why? If you change to a "non-recommended" oil then shouldn't your warranty be comprimised?"


WHERE IN THE MANUAL DOES IT SAY THAT SYNTHETIC IS NOT RECOMENDED?


If I remember correctly...
I looked again and I did not remember correctly.

Why, oh why arte thou yelling?

That's all good the Subaru says 3000 miles, but what about owners that do the first at 1,000? Dino oil 'til 3 and then synthetic?

Roger

The Subaru Manual says Not recommended because the Subaru engineers havn't tested the engine with synthetics yet. It is just in there for liabiliy reasons.

Currently Subaru doesn't really care about synthetics because nearly all synthetic oils have the same or better spec as dino oil. But if you bring your car in for a problem that MAY have been caused by use of synthetics, you bet they will try to avoid paying for it.

I keep track of miles for business purposes. For that reason, I have to keep track of all costs pertaining to my transportation. And I always fill up completely. So it is very easy to calculate MPG from the time I bought the car. :)

Any item be it brakes or cars will work usually as advertised. How well they work and how long they last all depend on how much care was spent in braking them in.

The Subaru Manual says Not recommended because the Subaru engineers havn't tested the engine with synthetics yet.

Which manual are you talking about?
If this language isn't in the 2002 WRX manual, can we assume it is now safe to use synthetic oil in older Subies with the same general engine specs?

I'll just throw this out here since no one has mentioned it. It is suprising to me that more people on here havent read Training WRX that is available from MRT. Anyway, there is a warning in there about switching to synthetic before 6000-10000 kilometers. They say this allows better break in for the very hard bores in the ej20. Ones they have seen cheange earlier end up with increased oil consumption later in life.
I know everyone has pretty good anecdotal info about how there cousin's car did such and such with no problems but I think to a certain extent you have to respect MRT's experience with these cars and figure they have seen more of these engines under a wider variety of conditions than any of us.
Just my two bits
Ryun

Originally posted by M_Annequin
If I remember correctly, the WRX owner's manual says that synthetic is NOT recommended. Does anyone know why? If you change to a "non-recommended" oil then shouldn't your warranty be comprimised?

I can't find any recommendation for or against synthetic oil in my manual (2002 WRX). Is there a reference in yours?

Not to get off topic or anything, but for those who have switched to synthetic motor oil do you notice a different sound from your engine while idling? I just made the switch today (@ ~4500mi on the odo) and noticed that the idle sounded different....it sort of had a burbling sound, for lack of a better description. Anyone have a similar experience when they switched?

-Lyle

Read last Road&Track about this very issue. They say that break-in occurs in the first 5-15 minutes where the rings and cylinder bore seat. That is it. I changed my oil at 500 miles to Mobile One and continue to change it every 1-3K WITH a filter each time. Just use whatever you want (Dino-synthetic) but keep it changed on a regular basis ~3k miles. I cannot believe that the manual says every 7500 miles. If in doubt, always follow the "severe driving" recomendations. Let your car idle after hard driving to allow the turbo to cool some although Subaru says this is no longer needed but I am taking no chance of shutting of my engine after a spirited drive. Ever see your turbo at night after hard driving??? It glowing nice and red.
Happy Holidays!
Greg

Well I changed at 3700, the dealer recommend putting syntetic in at 3K. they used mobil 1 5W30

this was my 3rd oil change becuase they recommend changing it at 1250 which was done with standard oil..

and I changed it again at around 2700 when I put the oil temp probe in the oil plug.

Here is what I know from my ASE class on internal combustion engines. "Dino" oil, is made from crude oil, and has to be refined to get out the impurities. It is impossible to get out all impurities though, and those that make it into your engine contribute to oil getting dirty because they burn, discolor, and attract carbon. Also, crude oil was not "created" to be used in engines. Today's refinement processes and additives help a lot, but don't make the oil flawless. It was because of that that some scientist said "I wonder if I could "make" an oil that has only what you need, and nothing you don't need. Tada!! Synthetic! Synthetic, because it is man made, doesn't have impurities that burn or discolor or turn into sludge, and is SPECIFICALLY designed for internal combustion engines. There for, in theory, you can drive a lot longer before changing your oil if you have synthetic. As a test, put a drop of regular dino oil in a frying pan over high heat. See how long it takes before the oil turns black and hardens. Now do the same test with synthetic. You will be impressed.

Now, about when to switch. The only reason I THINK you might not want to switch to synthetic until after break-in is done is because the synthetic lubricates to well and would keep the enigne from ever truly breaking in all the way. (More friction in dino oil means more thorough break-in)

Let me know what you think.

-Andy

Hmm...
First off I'd like to inform you Andy that synthetic oil also come from "DINO OIL" originally. The same crude goes from oil field to refinery, and then with different processes it's refined/distilled/transformed into PAO. PAO is the cornerstone for synthetic oils, engine as well as transmission oils.

So, with that said, mineral oil AND synthetics comes from the same hole in the ground :o)

Next, I've noticed that there is a discussion going on about using synthetics vs. mineral oils in your Subarus. Well, I agree with those saying "go ahead". The synthetic oil gives you lower friction, fuel economy, less wear and of course a longer lifespan for your engines! The running in problems (stating mineral oils) you won't have to worry about. 99% of the running in takes place the first 1 hr of driving - and not even at high speeds you can amount too much mileage during that 1 hr...

And just for fun, in Europe we have drain intervals of around 7.500 miles for ordinary cars (i.e. Toyota, Mazda..) and the usual drain interval is 15.000 miles for most other makes. Why, oh why, do you still have 1960's intervals in the states?? ;o)

Don't hesitate to ask questions concerning lubes - it's my job :o)

/Mac

....'break in' can NOT occure in 5-10 minutes :lol:


Jesus christ.....there are some REAL idiots perpetuating one of the biggest wives tales of all time, here....:rolleyes:

Well...considering every engine is pre-run before leaving the plant, just so that the owner won't have to worry about running-in problems, the main running-in is already done. That explains it... Please leave the 60's and it's chaos theories about engines.

As for the 'idiot' statement ... you could use a little more manners, right?

/Mac

Knowledge rules - not habits from the ol' days

Well...considering every engine is pre-run before leaving the plant, just so that the owner won't have to worry about running-in problems, the main running-in is already done.
Not true. A used oil analysis will show you that the engine is still breaking in anywhere from 10-20k miles. Put M1 5W30 in the engine at 1,000 miles at it will be a 20 weight in no time from the engine metals wearing in.

European oils are different than N. American oils. Even the M1 5W30 there is thicker than the most popular Mobil1 here and has a better High Temp High Shear viscosity. The M1 EP here is thicker but not as popular here.

-Dennis

FWIW, when hot, M1 10W30 is thinner than M1 5W30. :huh:
That would make it their thinnest oil after their xW20's.
NOT a good choice for a turbo car. :devil:

www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html BITOG viscosity chart
www.texacoxpresslube.com/carcare/article_viscosity.html
xW30 starts at 9.3cst@ 100c and goes to 12.49cst.
M1 10W30 is barely a 30wt.


www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.asp
5W20, cst @ 100C = 8.8
www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_10W-30.asp
10W30, cst @ 100C = 10.0
www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-30.asp
0W30, cst@ 100C = 11.0 (I haven't seen this in stores yet)
www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp
5W30, cst @ 100C = 11.3 (Truck& SUV is the same thickness)


And from what I gather from the BITOG forums, none of the current M1 formulations have been doing well in the wear protection dept.


www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf
(German) Castrol Syntec 0W30 would be a better choice.
In Europe it's Castrol Edge 0W30, a FULL synthetic, unlike most Syntec.
very high HTHS #. and ACEA A3/B3, VW 502/503.01/505, MB 229.1/229.3/229.5 rated.
It's BITOG approved :disco: (even has it's own forum)


And European cars (BMW, MB, etc) don't do that well with 15k OCI's.
They are MUCH happier with 7-8k, 10-12k max, OCI's. Our E39 is...

I have used mobil 1 since my second oil change, and no problems. I have 7,700 miles on my car and I'm going to continue using mobil 1. I work in an oil lube center, and the things i've noticed is conventional oil is very light and thin and syn is darker and thicker, so that tells you how well the oil will lubricate. as far as when to change your oil,I tell everyone that asks me to still change every 3,000m simply that the oil is still getting dirty, and you want to keep your engine from gettin dirty or build up.

I have used mobil 1 since my second oil change, and no problems. I have 7,700 miles on my car and I'm going to continue using mobil 1. I work in an oil lube center, and the things i've noticed is conventional oil is very light and thin and syn is darker and thicker, so that tells you how well the oil will lubricate. as far as when to change your oil,I tell everyone that asks me to still change every 3,000m simply that the oil is still getting dirty, and you want to keep your engine from gettin dirty or build up.

...oh boy...another Jiffy Lube d0000d

I have used mobil 1 since my second oil change, and no problems. I have 7,700 miles on my car and I'm going to continue using mobil 1. I work in an oil lube center, and the things i've noticed is conventional oil is very light and thin and syn is darker and thicker, so that tells you how well the oil will lubricate. as far as when to change your oil,I tell everyone that asks me to still change every 3,000m simply that the oil is still getting dirty, and you want to keep your engine from gettin dirty or build up.
You dug up a six year old thread to say this??!!?
Please post some supporting evidence showing that conventional is light and thin and synthetic is darker and thicker, telling you how well the oil lubricates. Synthetic is not necessarily thicker regardless if it's hot, cold, new or used.

-Dennis

Nevermind...