I am setting up my 05 STi for an AEM standalone. Does anyone else run this setup on their STi? Is anyone interested in an AEM standalone for their STi?

I have a potential hook-up on one. Didn't know the STi version was out. Definitely curious so please, keep us informed. What outstanding capabilities does it have? W/B integration? OBDII inspections an issue? I have done no research on this at all, but I'll start looking again.

So have they got the DBW figured out now (doubtful)?

offset

This is not put out by AEM technically. I have a custom jumper harness being made that makes an AEM unit plug and play for the STi. It jumps the AEM to the stock ecu to allow it to maintain the drive by wire throttle. The only other option would be to convert the dbw to a cable setup. I opted for the jumper harness. Cleaner install. I just want to get a feel for interest on this. If response is good, I'll look into having kits made available.
It will do everything the hydra does and more. How about 2 step launch control? It is going to be awesome launching with like 20 psi of boost and whatever rpm I want.
If you read up on the AEM units you will have a good idea of what it is capable of.

how much would it cost? is it going to plug into the wiring harness like the hydra at the ecu?

It will end up being plug and play like the hydra with a much nicer interface for the tuning software. Cost depends on your setup. I am running 1600cc top feeds so I had to go with an injector driver box which adds a little cost. It will end up costing more than the hydra, but you can set up to measure inlet temps, ind. cylinder temps, egts, and many other perks depending on the sensors and options you want to use.
I'll try to find out general prices on some of the basic components.

What about the avcs? The aem wont control it

The factory ecu will also be in place so this may also take on control of avcs I think. On the other hand, from what I understand, the only reason you would really want control is to turn it off sooner as it will probably end up hurting top end power. Seeing as I have a 9500 rev limit and a magnus intake manifold, I'm looking for a lot of top end power. Also, the AEM gives you more control of the timing than you need.

The factory ecu will also be in place so this may also take on control of avcs I think. On the other hand, from what I understand, the only reason you would really want control is to turn it off sooner as it will probably end up hurting top end power. Seeing as I have a 9500 rev limit and a magnus intake manifold, I'm looking for a lot of top end power. Also, the AEM gives you more control of the timing than you need.

It really sounds like you don't know what the hell you are talking about and your motor will soon be paying the price.

the AEM will control the AVCS, it will also control the DWB, it has been done and tested.

no it is not available to the public at this time.

Brad

Ok, well currently in a form that is available to the public the AEM does not control avcs nor dbw. Hopefully they get on the ball and release it as they continue to lose out on sales of that unit. As for running it as a piggyback to the factory ecu I really do not see that working very well at all. And no- you don't want avcs control to turn it off- you want avcs controls to adjust the map for things like better spool and better top end power.

I spoke with my tuner and yes the AEM will control avcs and has the capabilities for drive by wire, but liabilities for the throttle opening up on it's own has prolonged the release of this for the STi. They were talking maybe early next year for release at AEM. Maybe it is the wrx AEM that does not control avcs. And if the Utec does not control avcs and I was running this for the last year on 20+psi boost then that means that either the factory ecu was running it or the avcs was not active, either way, I have never had any issues. If this is so detrimental why did'nt my engine blow rjrutzky

next year is a long time. I don't think I want to wait. If the release date is early next year then that really means around June. What are the legal issues with the drive by wire? why doesn't phil have those same issues?

next year is a long time. I don't think I want to wait. If the release date is early next year then that really means around June. What are the legal issues with the drive by wire? why doesn't phil have those same issues?
Cuz Phil kicks serious ass :banana:

offset

Just get a Hydra and be done with it. Here's one for sale too
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1022001

I spoke with my tuner and yes the AEM will control avcs and has the capabilities for drive by wire, but liabilities for the throttle opening up on it's own has prolonged the release of this for the STi. They were talking maybe early next year for release at AEM. Maybe it is the wrx AEM that does not control avcs. And if the Utec does not control avcs and I was running this for the last year on 20+psi boost then that means that either the factory ecu was running it or the avcs was not active, either way, I have never had any issues. If this is so detrimental why did'nt my engine blow rjrutzky


Yes the factory ECU was controlling the AVCS.

The AEM is a completely different beast compared to the UTEC. Think of the UTEC as old school, and eventually the AEM as new school. (when all of it's bugs are worked out)

I will keep people updated as to potential issues or downfalls. This setup should be plug and play and does a lot of things the hydra cannot. I'll get pics of install and jumper harness when it goes in. As far as the drive by wire, from what I understand, it is built into the aem unit but they will not release it as such until all variables have been taken into consideration and careful testing done. I have to say though, when I talked to an AEM rep, he did'nt sound to promising for next year, so your probably right about a june release. Sorry, was wrong earlier and it is the factory ecu that will control avcs with the AEM unit. If you are in doubt of the AEM compatibility, it has already been done and tested on another STi down in florida where I have the custom jumper harness being wired up. Compare the hydra to the AEM and there are many similarities, but the AEM is a much more powerful standalone.

This setup should be plug and play and does a lot of things the hydra cannot.

Name one thing ;)

Two step rev limiter. Can you launch with your turbo fully spooled to any set psi.?
Not to mention multiple inputs for AFR, can you get an accurate afr from both sides of your engine? I'm sorry, but the AEM offers everything the hydra does and more.

Two step rev limiter. Can you launch with your turbo fully spooled to any set psi.?
Why do you think the Hydra doesn't have this? The two step rev limiter is usually referred to as launch control around here though.

Does the AEM have an anti-lag feature availble?

offset

yes hyrda does have the 2 step limiter. as offset has mentioned it is called launch control. I have also heard it called anti lag, I am not sure if they are the same thing or if I was misinterpretting what that is. To be honest launch control is the main reason I want the stand alone which cobb (what i am currently running) does not. Also hydra has a built in timing retard for nitrous which is another good selling point in my opinion. I know that AEM does this, but what does it do that the hydra doesn't. The main downfall that I have heard with the hydra is the buggy interface which is why I was inquiring. June is a long time from now for a more expensive product with no explanation to why they can't get something working that hydra has had working for at least a year and a half, really more like 2 years being how I started inquiring about it before I moved to GA. At anyrate, I thought aem engineers were top notch, why are they having so many problems getting this to work with the sti when we have so many other choices. Are they going to address the different year sti's with different versions of there stand alone?

Yes hydra has launch control, but not two step! They have soft and hard rev limiter, maybe thats what you are mistaking for two step launch control. With AEM I can run a dry nitrous system (I'm guessing you would have to run a wet system with hydra)and have full control at all times and then I still have another 6 dedicated defineable switch inputs. I did'nt see programmable traction control with the hydra either. 4 egt inputs with fuel control allowing for fuel adjustment based on these and 16 general purpose outputs. Aem can control basically everything at once and have future inputs/outputs to spare! As far as AEM not releasing their unit for the STi, I have no clue, I am just a private consumer putting together a better way of engine management for the STi than what is out there. The AEM is'nt available and I did'nt want to go hydra as My utech has most of the capabilities of the hydra from what I have seen, maybe with the exception of individual injector control and a few perks. I just would like more out of my standalone than what is out there and I feel that AEM will have the capacity to take on way more in the future.

How is the launch control on the utec? what about lag when crossing over maps?

The launch control on the utech is great. If you use the ignition based cut for the launch control, you will also build a little boost before launching. I really did not notice any issues with lag when crossing over maps. The utec worked very well set up with the SR 55 turbo and spool was very quick. I have one available for the 05 STi along with the ABC and the switch for the maps to switch on the fly. All you have to do is drop the rpm's and hit a button to choose from 5 maps. I'm dumping the utech due to only tunable up to 9000 rpms. I now have a 9500 rev limit.

The utech is very capable. I believe Big Valley STi was running a 10.6 1/4 mi. and about 745 hp with the utech last year.

Yes hydra has launch control, but not two step! They have soft and hard rev limiter, maybe thats what you are mistaking for two step launch control. With AEM I can run a dry nitrous system (I'm guessing you would have to run a wet system with hydra)and have full control at all times and then I still have another 6 dedicated defineable switch inputs. I did'nt see programmable traction control with the hydra either. 4 egt inputs with fuel control allowing for fuel adjustment based on these and 16 general purpose outputs. Aem can control basically everything at once and have future inputs/outputs to spare! As far as AEM not releasing their unit for the STi, I have no clue, I am just a private consumer putting together a better way of engine management for the STi than what is out there. The AEM is'nt available and I did'nt want to go hydra as My utech has most of the capabilities of the hydra from what I have seen, maybe with the exception of individual injector control and a few perks. I just would like more out of my standalone than what is out there and I feel that AEM will have the capacity to take on way more in the future.

I normally avoid threads like this but when there is so much misinformation I have to interject. You are speaking like you know the Hydra EMS but you have no clue honestly. You have been filled with way too much misinformation and you are speaking it like you actually know what you are talking about. First you say the Hydra doesn't have launch control and then you say it does but no two-step. Here are some facts:

The Hydra has a two step rev limiter definable with fuel cut and or ignition cut, flat-foot shifting, flat-foot shifting with N20 control. Big Valley is using it I’m using it, and about 4 other 10 and 9 second Subarus.
The Hydra can run low impendence injectors without additional hardware.
The Hydra has Autotune for fuel tuning that actually works. AFR targets are definable over 1024 load sites compared to 357.
The Hydra has 1024 load sites for each fuel map and each spark compared to 357.
The Hydra not only has definable knock control, amount of timing to be retarded, amount of fuel to be added but the other system doesn't have the ability to switch to a definable backup ignition map when knock exceeds a definable limit.
The Hydra is plug-and-play for the drive by wire STI
The Hydra has fully closed loop DBW control with sensor feedback from the sub, main, and TPS sensor with OEM style failsafe.
The Hydra is a full stand-alone and not a piggy-back EMS
The Hydra runs fully closed loop AVCS for the STI
The Hydra has 3 Motorola processors for the STI unit compared to other unit which has 1 Motorola processor.
The Hydra has Gear based boost control
The Hydra has Gear based fuel control
The Hydra has Gear based ignition control
The Hydra has individual cylinder tuning.
The Hydra can data log 17 parameters and display them all at once compared to only being able to display 3 at once.
The Hydra has programming level PID control over the idle system and boost control system the other does not.

The Element Hydra EMS has a proven track record in the Subaru application with numerous 10 second cars a 9 second cars. The Element Hydra EMS offers tuned base maps for most of the popular combinations including 1000cc low impendence injectors, GT35R, Cams, build engines and more plus we have a base map for a stock STI with an exhaust system. The retail price of and Element Hydra EMS with WB/Autotune is $2048 the AEM EMS with WB/Uego retails at $2604.53 and if you want to run low impedance injectors you have to buy the module for $408.33 and if you want the EGT feed back then that’s $406.25 and then you need the STI jumper harness so you can attempt to use it on your STI and we could go on and on. You’re well over $3500 for your proposed setup. An off the shelf Element Hydra EMS has run 9s with a $59 additional Accessory harness.

I’m not saying anything bad about the AEM EMS and unlike you I have tuned all the systems and more and am fully aware of each unit’s capabilities. I’m also not saying the AEM doesn’t have some features the Hydra doesn’t like the ability to tune 10 fuel injectors but this is a Subaru forum and who cares. I wish you good luck with what you are attempting as others have already tried and failed.

Thanks,
Phil
http://www.elementtuning.com

Thanks for the info phil. This thread was never intended to be a shootout between AEM and hydra, that was done last month in the hydra forum, which it sounds like AEM had to come on and correct you on a few things so I guess most of us don't know everything about every EMS. This was simply a thread to see if anyone was interested in the possibility of running an AEM in their STi as I will be doing. Anyone interested, once this has been accomplished can let me know and I can put them in touch with the person to make this happen. Nothing more and never an intention to take away from the hydra crowd, but rather to let people know that there are choices in EMS besides the hydra that are worthwhile. I never said hydra didn't have launch control, but rather refered to launching with boost. maybe misworded, sorry. I like the idea of launching with 20psi boost or whatever I want. Doing this and coupling it with traction control of the AEM should be fun. I never claimed to be an expert tuner or know everything about the hydra, but I can tell you that there are more AEM tuners out there than hydra and more people not familiar with tuning than there are familiar with it. Being able to find a tuner other than flying one in seems to me a logical choice. As far as expense goes, the hydra is cheaper, but cost is not my main concern, longevity, expandability and power are my concerns. I don't think that anyone who is looking for 800 hp before shooting nitrous is all that concerned about a $400 or $500 or even a $1000 difference when it comes down to something as crucial as engine management. I am looking for the most versatile, powerful and reliable solution out there and I feel for me that the AEM is the choice. Anyone else who feels the same will be able to accomplish this with ease in the near future, with or without the release from AEM themselves. Anyone interested, check back and I will post updates. As far as trying this and failing, like I said before in a previous post, this has already been done. Just because it is not common knowledge, does not mean that it is not out there and has not been done. Where would the aftermarket car industry be if many vendors took the attitude of it's been tried and met with failure, so lets just forget about it. Fortunately for us, that is not the typical attitude in the industry. I see more people with an anything is possible attitude than not and that is part of why the industry has come so far. Look up the AEM units and read up on them. If you have hydra questions, obviously phil is your guy. Now can we get back to what this thread was intended for and let me know your interest in running an AEM in your STi.

Thanks for the info phil. This thread was never intended to be a shootout between AEM and hydra, that was done last month in the hydra forum, which it sounds like AEM had to come on and correct you on a few things so I guess most of us don't know everything about every EMS.

Where are you getting this misinformation from? I have never drawn a comparison anywhere on the entire internet in regards to the AEM system vs. the Hydra prior to this thread and AEM has never corrected me on any post I’ve ever made. This is the first time ever in this post because of the misinformation you have posted. Please post up a link and prove me wrong.

This was simply a thread to see if anyone was interested in the possibility of running an AEM in their STi as I will be doing. Now can we get back to what this thread was intended for and let me know your interest in running an AEM in your STi

Carry on as you wish and I would have never posted had no misinformation about the Hydra EMS been given. Talk about the AEM and your testing all you like but if you post misinformation about the Hydra EMS I will chime in. I honestly have no intention of stealing this thread or turning it into an AEM vs Hydra debate and I will go away but please stop posting hearsay.

Phil
http://www.elementtuning.com

This thread was a complete waste of time and bandwidth. The "STi AEM Standalone" in the title turns out to be nothing more than a piggyback.

:mad:

Michael what kind of engine setup do you have? I would imagine it has to be something pretty special if your going through all this money, and trouble for an EM?

Get a Hydra... tried and true has run the numbers.. Its made for your car!
Leave the AEMs for the EVOs and Supras

Under hydra and other ems engine management systems
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723459

Sorry phil my mistake this was the thread I was thinking of and you did not post as I thought. My apologies, and I am glad to hear info on the hydra as I am sure others are. Feel free to offer input at any time. The more the merrier. If the AEM is not up to my standards, I will look into a hydra myself, but I kind of enjoy going a route that others have not taken.

From reading the thread that you have posted it appears to me that Hydra would be the best solution for me, since I am a diy type of guy. It has all of the features that I need thus far so I am pretty much set once I sell this gsx.