http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/spinaroundtown/06.bmw.325.xi/06.bmw.325xi.act.500.jpg

Video: http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=115596/pageNumber=1#

Article:
By Caroline Pardilla
Date posted: 06-01-2006

Video Video Highlights of these vehicles

Dancing past slower-moving traffic on the coastal highway as if they're standing still, the Electric Red BMW 325xi leaves a wake of affronted motorists shaking their fists at its retreating form. But who wants to cruise at a leisurely Sunday pace when there's an agile car to play with and curvy roads to conquer? Besides, the 12 bags of groceries in the rear can sit this playtime out.

The 2006 BMW 325xi sport wagon is no excuse to be sensible. Updated alongside the 3 Series sedan for '06, the carmaker built the family car to mirror the 325i's sports-car handling and coupelike profile. Just because you can haul your brood of four and all their gear, doesn't mean tight corners and hauling you-know-what are off-limits.

Stationary no more
If anything, the sport wagon's magnesium-aluminum 3.0-liter, six-cylinder engine dares you to play around. With 31 more horsepower than last year's wagon, it can easily fly to illegal speeds, but peak output is only 215 hp at 6,250 rpm and 185 pound-feet of torque at 2,750 rpm. Sure, it's 15 hp more than you get in an Audi A4 Avant 2.0T, but 185 lb-ft of torque isn't exactly what you would call a strong bottom end. To make the most of this engine, you have to exercise its tach needle.

That thirst for revs and standard six-speed manual and short-throw shifter reaffirm that the 325xi is different from the wagons most of us grew up with. Here, grown-ups can have fun, too. A Steptronic automatic transmission is an option for $1,275, but thankfully wood side panels and whitewalls are not.

Although a rear-wheel-drive version is coming out this fall, for now the 325xi only comes with BMW's xDrive all-wheel drive, which can make hard launches in the little wagon tricky. Quick 0-to-60-mph runs require a lot of clutch slippage and 4,500 rpm, but the wagon laughed off the abuse and hit 60 mph in 7.7 seconds. It covered the quarter-mile in 15.8 seconds at 88.6 mph.

Out in the real world, there's ample pull for easy starts in traffic as the engine redlines with BMW's trademark thrum. And, with sufficient power on tap, merging onto the highway well ahead of a speeding semi is a cinch.

No loose caboose
More impressive is the 325xi's well-balanced chassis, which it showed off with a 63.6-mph quickness through our 700-foot slalom. Despite a tendency for slight oversteer, the wagon maintained just the right amount for rotation around each cone. The 325xi's precisely tuned double-pivot front suspension accounts for its agile nature, as it provides excellent roll stability.

On city streets, the car feels compact enough to push aggressively without worrying about back-end swing, and don't let its sporty suspension fool you into believing it's a jarring ride. It's sprung firmly, but manages to smooth out even the roughest roads. Impact harshness is completely dialed out.

Helping to keep things under control is xDrive, an electronically controlled all-wheel-drive system that utilizes a multidisc clutch to vary the amount of torque split between the front and rear wheels. Driving torque is always sent to the rear wheels, but sensors determine how much power, and when to shift a portion of it to the front wheels. The maximum amount sent to the rear wheels is 100 percent (clutch fully open), and 50 percent to the front when the clutch is fully locked. It's all imperceptible to the driver, however, who just enjoys seemingly endless traction.

Our tester's sportiness was further enhanced by the $1,200 sport package, which provides larger 17-inch all-season Bridgestone Turanza tires, bolstered front seats and a fat leather steering wheel. BMW has a knack for combining luxurious appointments with a sporting nature, and it's done to perfection in this little wagon. Its unusual Terra interior with Dakota leather, better known as a black dash with brown seats, took a little getting used to for some, but the Poplar natural wood trim was a hit and the materials all around are first-rate.

Interior motives
The sport wagon's base price is $34,600, which is high for the class. Our tester priced out at $40,790 because of a long list of extra-cost options like the sport package, xenon headlights, satellite radio and a premium package. Seat comfort is high, but we have to question a $41,000 vehicle without a navigation system or heated seats. We're also still coming to grips with BMW's two-maneuver push-button engine-start system, which forces you to first insert the key, and then push the button.

With the same wheelbase, length, width and height as the recently redesigned and slightly enlarged 3 Series sedans, there are small increases in shoulder, head- and legroom measurements over last year's wagon. It's no Suburban, but no one complained when they lost the "I call shotgun" battle.

Cargo volume also remains virtually the same at 60.9 cubic feet with the split-folding rear seats down (24.8 cubic feet with the seats up), leaving it one of the smallest in its class for cargo space. But the separately opening rear window and cargo cover make it useful for hauling more than just groceries.

For safety's sake
The sport wagon comes standard with BMW's new head protection system (HPS) — the first front and rear head protection system to be offered in the 3 Series — as well as front-seat-mounted side-impact airbags and automatic-locking retractors on all passenger seatbelts. And for the first time, the 3 Series wagon has LATCH attachments on the front-passenger seat.

The latest generation of Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) is also standard, offering a potpourri of braking features like brake fade compensation and brake drying. A start-off assistant prevents the car from rolling back when stopped uphill — a nice feature that takes the stress out of the uphill drive-thru.

ABS is also standard, of course, as are very powerful four-wheel disc brakes. On the test track, the car hauled to a stop from 60 mph in 122.8 feet. On the street, pedal feel is as good as it gets.

You can fly! You can fly! You can fly!
Sure, it's a wagon, but don't hold that against it. Larger, faster and bolder-looking, the new-generation 2006 BMW 325xi might not have the hauling capacity of a large SUV, but it's still an attractive option for grown-ups who aren't quite ready to trade in their penchant for flying.

If you still think wagons can't be cool, think again.

I'm starting (early) to look around at post-graduation vehicles and this one is starting to come up higher on the list. It's a good 3K cheaper than most 3-series and looks pretty damn good for a wagon.

My only worry is the weight of the thing! (Curb Weight: 3737 lbs./Gross Weight: 4839 lbs.) Is it typical for AWD BMW's to be very heavy? There's a RWD version coming out this fall. I think I would opt for that, honestly.


-Matt
Yeah, this isn't really news. But since there's no thread about this wagon ANYWHERE, I assume it's news to the forum. ;)

Crap! Move to non-Subaru! :p

move it..

Hope you like the dealer's service department... and yeah move this thread.

Edit: why on earth would you take this (base price of $34k) over a LGT or OBXT or even an FXT? :huh:

I would NEVER keep any german iron beyond the warranty period. :p

EDIT: Okay, maybe a Cayman S, but that's the ONLY one! :lol:

Edit: why on earth would you take this (base price of $34k) over a LGT or OBXT or even an FXT? :huh:

1) Manual
2) Looks badass
3) Free service for 5 years
4) I like it better
5) RWD
6) Can travel to Europe and pick it up for cheaper than MSRP


Umm... I'm sure there's even more reasons. That's just what I thought of off the top of my head.

-Matt

[size=6][b]
6) Can travel to Europe and pick it up for cheaper than MSRP

-Matt

Pretty sure if you plan on bringing it back you still need to pay luxury and import taxes on it.

BMW's are nice! Don't know why there is so much hate. I think they are also pretty reliable compared to VW, Audi, Volvo, or even Merc's. I plan on buying a older M5 someday. However I absolutley hate the new BMW front end, sorry but it looks very down syndrome'ish and choppy.

Pretty sure if you plan on bringing it back you still need to pay luxury and import taxes on it.
It actually works out quite well according to Edmunds. Link: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1018768


-Matt

I see you got the Bimmer bug after learning about the euro delivery program. That happened to me too.

A few things to consider.

1. Run flats
2. Basically not being able to mod without giving your firstborn to Dinan
3. Paying for the pricey repairs once it goes out of warranty
4. Underpowered

ninja edit, i need to rtfop

Hmm can you do this with any used car?

So could I purchase a used E39 M5 Wagon over there and ship it back?

1) Manual
2) Looks badass
3) Free service for 5 years
4) I like it better
5) RWD
6) Can travel to Europe and pick it up for cheaper than MSRP


Umm... I'm sure there's even more reasons. That's just what I thought of off the top of my head.

-Matt

First of all, whether you like something or not is subject and is solely your opinion and no one can argue that, but you should have known better to post something like this here.

If price and performance is an issue, it's not even a comparison between a BMW 325xi vs a Legacy GT. Recently, I was able to directly compare my LGT Limited Wagon 5MT to a co-worker's BMW 325 xiT (T for Touring or wagon) and I came away thinking that he pissed away over $10-14K more than I did for something that was comparible in quality and luxury, but not as fast.

BTW, I got my LGT Limited wagon for $25,300.

Granted that mine LGT is a manual and his 325xiT is an auto, but even comparing auto vs auto, I think the LGT would still have been faster if only be a little bit.

In terms of panache or cache, BMW is going to win that match hands down and if that's something you value and you think it's worth the price difference, then go for it.

In the handling department, the BMW was also better and seemed to be more connected to the pavement. The LGT likes to oversteer much more than the BMW, but better tires, springs and anti-roll bars would make the Subaru superior in this department.

In terms of tuning and aftermarket, both have brands are heavily supported, but one brand will cost a lot more to squeeze out the same power. With $5-10K in aftermarket mods and I can make my LGT into an M3 fighter and still have spent less money than my co-worker's Bimmer.

First of all, whether you like something or not is subject and is solely your opinion and no one can argue that, but you should have known better to post something like this here.
Why in the world wouldn't I post this up here? Do we not discuss new cars in this forum? Just because this one's been out a few months, that makes it ineligible for discussion? It hasn't been discussed before on NASIOC anywhere, so I think this is 100% the proper forum for it. I don't intend to buy it any time soon, so this isn't a "Should I buy it or not?" thread.. that would clearly belong in Off Topic. This thread is about the 325xi wagon, and weighing the pros and cons... which is exactly what you're doing, and I like that. But please don't insult me by saying I posted in the wrong forum, because I didn't. :o


In regards to the LGT, here's the deal. Yes, it's a great buy... but can you buy the wagon in MT? No. So it's a moot point in all regards as I would never buy an automatic.

-Matt

I read the review on that and it was pretty favorable. BMW’s in general handle very well and combine nice amenities with a solid driving experience. The 325 is a tad on the slow slide IMO if you want something sporty. Then again an LGT wagon is an auto and if you want to keep your warranty no rocket either. Resale on a manual wagon would be a bit hard as well since most BMW Wagon owners would opt for a steptronic. Another car to consider is a used S4 Avant. The 2004 is in a similar price range and has gobs of power and available in a manual not to mention is looks sweet!

+1 for the S4 Avant!!

Or M5 Touring if you can find one ha ha.

Yup, I agree with matt. A legacy GT wagon is not even on my list due to the lack of a manual transmission. A RWD BMW 325i sport wagon will get at 30 miles per gallon and have a far nicer interior (my brother's yet to see over 26 mpg on his grandmaish driven OBXT). AWD is NOT a must for me either. 6MT makes the deal sweeter. I also don't like modifying cars anymore. It is a waste of money, IMO.

At least when I'm at the BMW dealer w/ the MINI, we don't get treated like retards like at the local Subaru dealer.

~~Quentin

Gotta love red wagons, even when they're not WRXs...

Yup, I agree with matt. A legacy GT wagon is not even on my list due to the lack of a manual transmission. A RWD BMW 325i sport wagon will get at 30 miles per gallon and have a far nicer interior (my brother's yet to see over 26 mpg on his grandmaish driven OBXT). AWD is NOT a must for me either. 6MT makes the deal sweeter. I also don't like modifying cars anymore. It is a waste of money, IMO.

At least when I'm at the BMW dealer w/ the MINI, we don't get treated like retards like at the local Subaru dealer.

~~Quentin

The lack of a manual is precisely why I did not buy a legacy GT wagon. I did end up with a WRX wagon (I wanted a manual transmission, AWD wagon - it's a short list), but I'm sure Subaru would have liked that extra money from me. :Shrug: I looked at 325 Wagons as well, the price was the put-off. That and service would have been over an hr away. The Dodge Magnum (blasphemy!) would have been the best choice, had it been offered with a manual.

Why in the world wouldn't I post this up here? Do we not discuss new cars in this forum? Just because this one's been out a few months, that makes it ineligible for discussion? It hasn't been discussed before on NASIOC anywhere, so I think this is 100% the proper forum for it. I don't intend to buy it any time soon, so this isn't a "Should I buy it or not?" thread.. that would clearly belong in Off Topic. This thread is about the 325xi wagon, and weighing the pros and cons... which is exactly what you're doing, and I like that. But please don't insult me by saying I posted in the wrong forum, because I didn't. :o


In regards to the LGT, here's the deal. Yes, it's a great buy... but can you buy the wagon in MT? No. So it's a moot point in all regards as I would never buy an automatic.

-Matt

My statement was not meant to imply that you shouldn't post on this forum. It was only to reiterate that this is a pro-Subaru forum and you will get a lot of comments on the lines of 'Subarus are great, everything else sucks'. Not a flame, just a warning about the responses you might get.

If one values quality, performance and bang for the buck in an AWD package, Subarus are hard to beat.

BMWs are nice cars. There's a reason why their sales are strong all around the world. Personally, I think they are overpriced for what you get, but I also don't like paying for a nameplate. That's just my opinion that's not neccessarily shared by others.

You asked about a 325 xi which I happened to have a recent opportunity to compare first hand, side by side with my LGT. If you are already in love with the car, go ahead and buy no matter what others say. You only live once, do what makes you happy.

I see what you mean, and that's a very good point. I apologize for flying off the handle like I did. :o

However, if one doesn't plan on modifying their car and doesn't care about straight-line speed, I think the BMW beats the LGT hands down. It's kinda like the 3-Series wagon doesn't look good on paper, but it's great in real life. Like 215hp in a 3800lbs vehicle sounds slow, but I think a 0-60 of 7 seconds is quite good, especially for an Edmunds review... they're typically slower than other media. That slalom time looked quite good, as well.

And in the end, who else makes a Manual + Wagon + RWD?

Plus if I want a sports car, I'll buy a sports car. I don't need one vehicle to be able to do everything for me. I doubt I'd autocross this car if I had it.. I'd buy a Miata or S2000 or something designed to be a sports car.

-Matt

To further illustrate my point about BMW's being fun... :devil:

http://www.mattdell.com/gallery/albums/caranddriver50th/caranddriver50th03.jpg

http://www.mattdell.com/gallery/albums/caranddriver50th/caranddriver50th02.jpg

-Matt

meh ... WRX wagon (or 9-2x) is faster, bigger inside, more reliable, and MUCH cheaper

er, more money for something less reliable and slower? no thanks. 4 > 2 btw, get an xi if you can. RWD might be fun but it's not as safe and performance isn't as good.

if you want a tire burner save up for the 335i (german supra?) in september.

I still like the Audi A3 better.

^^^^^ Agreed.

er, more money for something less reliable and slower? no thanks. 4 > 2 btw, get an xi if you can. RWD might be fun but it's not as safe and performance isn't as good.

if you want a tire burner save up for the 335i (german supra?) in september.
Performance: RWD is most definitely better than AWD in performance and handling. What is AWD going to do, other than take up more horsepower and understeer half the time? Give me RWD, please. And I don't see AWD as that much safer than RWD, honestly, it just takes a more skilled driver. :o

Reliability: Let's see... my transmission on my bone stock WRX that I only drive around town like a freaking grandmother in is going in for repair for the 4th time this week. Do I get a loaner car at a Subaru dealership? Nope! Not even a thank you, an apology, or a **** you! I have to beg for rides to/from work like some kind of moocher. Would I get a loaner at a BMW dealership? You bet, and they'd kiss my ass the whole time I was in there. And free maintenance for 4 years, awesome.


My WRX sqeaks over every bump, rattles all the time. Trust me, I love my Subaru, it's a lot of fun to drive, but I've got the mindset to at least see the flaws. I would much prefer to drive a refined 6 speed with a perfectly balanced chassis than a nose-heavy 5 speed with sporatic gearing, despite a lack of horsepower.

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me. If you want a manual transmission wagon, AWD or RWD, what are you going to buy? If the Spec B had a wagon trim, I'd be dead set on that, but it doesn't.


And how would a 335i fit into this situation? It's not a wagon and it's not going to be available in a manual! Hell, you probably shouldn't look at it either... it isn't AWD so it must be dangerooos!!! :eek:


-Matt

Reliability: Let's see... my transmission on my bone stock WRX that I only drive around town like a freaking grandmother in is going in for repair for the 4th time this week. Do I get a loaner car at a Subaru dealership? Nope! Not even a thank you, an apology, or a **** you! I have to beg for rides to/from work like some kind of moocher. Would I get a loaner at a BMW dealership? You bet, and they'd kiss my ass the whole time I was in there. And free maintenance for 4 years, awesome.

And that loaner and 'free' maintenance would only cost you $10k+ more than a WRX. ;)

And that loaner and 'free' maintenance would only cost you $10k+ more than a WRX. ;)
Because people cross shop WRXs and BMW 3 series all the time. :huh:

He wants something nicer than what he already has. Subaru doesn't offer a true sporty wagon with a MT and a nice interior. A WRX wagon that is even close to a 325i sport wagon in terms of comfort is going to cost you $28,000. It is also not what I'd consider a true wagon when compared to the Legacy or 3 series. A similarly spec'ed Legacy, without a manual transmission, is going to be $31k. And I have to get the beige interior if I get white! AWESOME!!!!

Oh yeah, our local MINI dealer gives out loaners when we take it in for maintenance. It was a heck of a lot cheaper than your Legacy GT and Outback. ;)

~~Quentin

edit: you could safely assume that $2k can be saved by opting for the 325i sport wagon over the 325xi sport wagon. That is the price difference between the 330i sedan and 330xi sedan. Give me the RWD version! Oh yeah, I'll take a 3.0L diesel too. :)

the 325xi wagon is boring. the a4 3.2 or 2.0 wagon is much more fun to drive..

the 325xi wagon is boring. the a4 3.2 or 2.0 wagon is much more fun to drive..
Do you have first-hand experience?

-Matt

I would much prefer to drive a refined 6 speed with a perfectly balanced chassis than a nose-heavy 5 speed with sporatic gearing, despite a lack of horsepower.

My former Jeep Wrangler had near 50/50 weight distribution with little weight overhang ahead of the front axle, so I see we're your are comming from.

Check with edmunds.com to see what the cost to own figures look like (also include comparisons for used BMW to get an idea about repair costs.) There is a good chance that insurance may be lower than the WRX the reason being that BMW wagon owners are less likely to play bumper cars. Maintenance cost on German luxury cars can be an order of magnitude more expensive than garden variety Japanese cars. Make sure you budget accordingly.

{snip}

If you want a manual transmission wagon, AWD or RWD, what are you going to buy? If the Spec B had a wagon trim, I'd be dead set on that, but it doesn't.

And how would a 335i fit into this situation? It's not a wagon and it's not going to be available in a manual! Hell, you probably shouldn't look at it either... it isn't AWD so it must be dangerooos!!! :eek:

-Matt

Matt, I just did this dance, over the span of ~1yr. I ended up with a WRX wagon, FWIW.

AWD or RWD, wagon, manual transmission. You didn't mention whether new only, or if used was an option.

VW 4-motion Passat Wagons
Audi A4/A6 Avants, or S4/S6 Avants.
BMW 3-Series, 5 Series Wagons
Subaru WRX Wagon

The A4, AWD vs. AWD is more entertaining than the 325xi, but in my opinion the WRX is more fun than either of them. I was only really interested in the AWD wagons - my folks live in the abyss in WV, and I travel over western MD, and to upstate NY pretty frequently, so the snow ability wasn't really a "nice to have" - it was a requirement.

It isn't a manual transmission, but in the bang for the buck factor, the Dodge Magnum stacks up well here too.

Or a Mercedes AMG wagon - :banana: ;)
Sam

Performance: RWD is most definitely better than AWD in performance and handling.

so some of the world's most hyper exotics... Lamborghini... and the most expensive of them all... Bugatti... have it all wrong?



Because people cross shop WRXs and BMW 3 series all the time. :huh:

He wants something nicer than what he already has. Subaru doesn't offer a true sporty wagon with a MT and a nice interior. A WRX wagon that is even close to a 325i sport wagon in terms of comfort is going to cost you $28,000. It is also not what I'd consider a true wagon when compared to the Legacy or 3 series. A similarly spec'ed Legacy, without a manual transmission, is going to be $31k. And I have to get the beige interior if I get white! AWESOME!!!!




~~Quentin

edit: you could safely assume that $2k can be saved by opting for the 325i sport wagon over the 325xi sport wagon. That is the price difference between the 330i sedan and 330xi sedan. Give me the RWD version! Oh yeah, I'll take a 3.0L diesel too. :)

According to BMW's website... the wagon only comes in AWD


start @ 35,295... already well over the LGT's price
Ok I want silver... $475
Power seats, Leather, Lumbar support....$2,950
Heated seats......$500
17 inch wheels... $300
keyless entry...$500
carpeted floormats...$125
6cd cd changer... in the trunk... $635
I'm at $41,555

and that's without an auto transmission($1,275) which would put it very close to $45K and I'd be willing to bet incentives would play much better into the LGT's favor.

so for all that money... i get...
less power
inferior awd
No Limited slip rear diff
marginally better highway fuel economy, same city fuel economy
no active head restraints
no windshield wiper de icer
reflector beam headlights
inferior safety ratings
worse reliability
and a worse warranty...

hmmm....

The LGT truly is the steal of the century for a well made sports sedan/wagon. too bad nobody knows and even the subaru people take it for granted.

I was curious about this comparison, so I went to both the BMW and subaru website. It is not possible to compare the WRX and 325ix on BMW's website, and when you do the comparison on the Subaru site, some info is missing. This info, such as interior space and and acceleration data, is also missing from BMW's website. Although I couldn't find the dimension specs, I don't think it's fair to compare the 325 with the legacy. I haven't seen the new wagon, but my brother had a sedan, and it was pretty small inside. I would imagine the interior dimensions are similar between the 3 and the WRX, and the 5 wagon and legacy.

The one thing I did find in the comparison was that not only is the 3 a bit less powerful, it weighs 500lbs more than the WRX wagon. That must be a pretty solid interior...

I would imagine the interior dimensions are similar between the 3 and the WRX, and the 5 wagon and legacy.


the 5 series dwarfs a legacy. the legacy is marginally smaller in every dimension overall length, and front headroom compared to a 3 series. the reason why the legacy is so much longer... and looks like a bigger car... is the five mph bumpers. the legacy in japanese/uk/australian form is a 3 series sized car in length as well

According to BMW's website... the wagon only comes in AWD
According to the article in the first post, RWD will be an option this fall.

so some of the world's most hyper exotics... Lamborghini... and the most expensive of them all... Bugatti... have it all wrong?
First off, I would discount a Lamborghini as a sports car... it's merely an exotic toy for people with too much money. Overpriced tractors without a pedigree, IMO. :o

But, seriously, you are bring up extremes. The Bugatti has 1001 horsepower; it would be undriveable without AWD. Also, is a Veyron noted for its cornering abilities? No, just its top speed, which it accomplishes with tons of horsepower and that horsepower would never reach the ground with only RWD. Now, does a Lotus have AWD? Does a Corvette? Does a Ferrari? Do they have it all wrong because they don't have AWD?

The LGT truly is the steal of the century for a well made sports sedan/wagon. too bad nobody knows and even the subaru people take it for granted.
I haven't argued against the value of a LGT. It simply does not come in manual and a wagon, and that is where the BMW 3 Series Wagon comes in as the next alternative. Why is that so difficult to understand?

-Matt

According to the article in the first post, RWD will be an option this fall.


First off, I would discount a Lamborghini as a sports car... it's merely an exotic toy for people with too much money. Overpriced tractors without a pedigree, IMO. :o


But, seriously, you are bring up extremes. The Bugatti has 1001 horsepower; it would be undriveable without AWD. Also, is a Veyron noted for its cornering abilities? No, just its top speed, which it accomplishes with tons of horsepower and that horsepower would never reach the ground with only RWD. Now, does a Lotus have AWD? Does a Corvette? Does a Ferrari? Do they have it all wrong because they don't have AWD?



you said rwd was that much better.. i was refuting that


I haven't argued against the value of a LGT. It simply does not come in manual and a wagon, and that is where the BMW 3 Series Wagon comes in as the next alternative. Why is that so difficult to understand?


The ending was a general statement... call it a public service announcement.

Yeah RWD>AWD in performance, that is why Subaru and Audi get to run lower minimum weights by nearly every sanctioning organization... oh wait they dont they get hammered with penalty weight to... get ready... slow them down so the RWD and FWD can compete.

OH and on Top Gear's 5th episode of the 2005 season, yes the one with the Bugatti, the Stig takes 2 Porsches around a rally special stage in a rugby arena. Identical 911s except one is RWD and one is AWD. The result the AWD is a .5 second quicker. Though the Stip felt the RWD was lighter and more nimble in the tight sections, the AWD Carrera was better at getting power to the ground and came out of the corners faster. The winner... AWD again.

Do you have first-hand experience?

-Matt

yes.. just did a bunch of test drives with my gf.. she went with the s4 avant, though.

Yeah RWD>AWD in performance, that is why Subaru and Audi get to run lower minimum weights by nearly every sanctioning organization... oh wait they dont they get hammered with penalty weight to... get ready... slow them down so the RWD and FWD can compete.

OH and on Top Gear's 5th episode of the 2005 season, yes the one with the Bugatti, the Stig takes 2 Porsches around a rally special stage in a rugby arena. Identical 911s except one is RWD and one is AWD. The result the AWD is a .5 second quicker. Though the Stip felt the RWD was lighter and more nimble in the tight sections, the AWD Carrera was better at getting power to the ground and came out of the corners faster. The winner... AWD again.
I give up... AWD Subaru > * on this forum. :rolleyes:


Thanks for all the realistic replies in this thread. I appreciate it.

-Matt

so some of the world's most hyper exotics... Lamborghini... and the most expensive of them all... Bugatti... have it all wrong?





According to BMW's website... the wagon only comes in AWD


start @ 35,295... already well over the LGT's price
Ok I want silver... $475
Power seats, Leather, Lumbar support....$2,950
Heated seats......$500
17 inch wheels... $300
keyless entry...$500
carpeted floormats...$125
6cd cd changer... in the trunk... $635
I'm at $41,555

and that's without an auto transmission($1,275) which would put it very close to $45K and I'd be willing to bet incentives would play much better into the LGT's favor.

so for all that money... i get...
less power
inferior awd
No Limited slip rear diff
marginally better highway fuel economy, same city fuel economy
no active head restraints
no windshield wiper de icer
reflector beam headlights
inferior safety ratings
worse reliability
and a worse warranty...

hmmm....

The LGT truly is the steal of the century for a well made sports sedan/wagon. too bad nobody knows and even the subaru people take it for granted.
Until the Legacy WAGON comes with a MANUAL TRANSMISSION, I don't want it. That is a deal breaker. Heated seats for $500 isn't. The Outback XT is close, but I'd be unhappy with the high ride and floaty handling. You have to change out a crapload of parts to even get the legacy GT suspension on it. My brother has deamed it too much work and not worth it on his OBXT.

I've always loved BMWs. Why is it a crime (on these forums) to get/want something that isn't awd or turbo? I want a plush interior, smooth engine, and a great day-to-day suspension. I should be able to afford one in the next couple years and I'm not going to limit my search to Subarus as I feel that AWD isn't necessary.

~~Quentin

Some people just do not understand what desires and requirements are. I too will be looking for a manual wagon in the next year or so. Unless SOA will sell a few of the manual wagons that they make in NA to the US, I too will have to go else where. However AWD is a requirement for me, so my list is shorter than yours. I love my BH, it is a great car, just wish they made a new version of it. I find it kind-of funny how passionate us manual wagon guys are.

The full service of the bimmer is a big deal. Never own an Audi that is out of warranty.

Peace,

Greg

I thought that the 'Free Service' on the BMW was much the same as with the Audi. Basically that it is free when they want it to be, on certain intervals. For example:

3k Service - Free
5k Service - You Pay
8K Service - Free

Etc.

I am pulling those numbers out of the air, but that was my understanding of what the German automakers considered, "Free".

- Chris

No car is for everyone... enjoy whatever you get.

the 5 series dwarfs a legacy. the legacy is marginally smaller in every dimension overall length, and front headroom compared to a 3 series. the reason why the legacy is so much longer... and looks like a bigger car... is the five mph bumpers. the legacy in japanese/uk/australian form is a 3 series sized car in length as well



I'd like to see the numbers on those dimensions. Dwarfing and being marginally bigger are two different things. I'll agree it probably dwarfs weight-wise, though.

The xi is a really boring vehicle. I haven't driven a manual wagon, but I have a sedan. I was completely underwhelmed--you are paying for the BMW "name" becaue the car is dull.

Dimensions:

LGT_____325xi_____525xi
105.1____108.7____113.7 Wheelbase (inches)
186.2____178.2____191.1 Length (inches)
68.1_____71.5_____72.7 Width (inches)
56.1_____56.1_____57.8 Height (inches)
58.9_____59.1_____61.3 Height (inches)
58.5_____59.6_____62.3 Track (Rear)
5.9_______NA______NA Minimum Road Clearance (inches)
37.6_____37.4_____37.7 Headroom (Front)
36.5_____37.1_____37.9 Headroom (Rear)
44.1_____41.5_____41.5 Legroom (Front)
33.9_____34.6_____36.0 Legroom (Rear)
54.2_____55.4_____57.3 Shoulder Room (Front)
54.2_____55.4_____57.3 Shoulder Room (Front)
53.7_____55.1_____57.2 Shoulder Room (Rear)
3365____3560_____3627 Curb Weight (pounds) Manual Transmission
3435____3605_____3660 Curb Weight (pounds) Automatic Transmission
93.1____93.0______99.1 Manufacturer Passenger Volume (cubic feet)
11.4____12.0______14.0 Manufacturer Cargo Volume (cubic feet)
2700 Not Recommended Not Recommended Towing Capacity (pounds)

I have to admit that I haven't driven the current generation 3-series but as someone who owns a Legacy GT and has been driving an E46 3-series wagon for the past couple of weeks I can definitely see why someone would go the BMW route. And the BMW I've been driving has an automatic and the little 2 liter diesel engine (which would really benefit from a manual). The BMW has a nicer interior than the LGT, doesn't have a ridiculously soft suspension like the LGT has, has steering that feels a huge amount better(thats probably the understatement of the century), is more stable at high speeds, and with over 60,000 miles on the odometer feels more solid and is more rattle free than any brand new Subaru that I've ever been in. And even with the automatic, underwhelming engine, stability control that kicks in too early(you can disable that) and snow tires its still a blast to drive.

The only major differences seem to be the rear shoulder room, which doesn't seem to be that big a deal unless you plan on putting three people back there. The legroom numbers are pretty funny, someone had the LGT seat all the way back. How do they set up the seats for interior dimensions? I'm surprised that the differences between the 5 and the 3 aren't larger. With the weight, I was thinking of the 530xi, which is more comparable to the LGT in terms of engine output and acceleration, although it starts at 52k!!

I have to admit that I haven't driven the current generation 3-series but as someone who owns a Legacy GT and has been driving an E46 3-series wagon for the past couple of weeks I can definitely see why someone would go the BMW route. And the BMW I've been driving has an automatic and the little 2 liter diesel engine (which would really benefit from a manual). The BMW has a nicer interior than the LGT, doesn't have a ridiculously soft suspension like the LGT has, has steering that feels a huge amount better(thats probably the understatement of the century), is more stable at high speeds, and with over 60,000 miles on the odometer feels more solid and is more rattle free than any brand new Subaru that I've ever been in. And even with the automatic, underwhelming engine, stability control that kicks in too early(you can disable that) and snow tires its still a blast to drive.

LGT v BMW... I'd probably go BMW.. but I'd take the Audi A4 over the latest 3 series. The Audi is more fun to drive and looks better inside and out. If I wanted raw performance, I wouldn't pick any of them.. and If I wanted pure luxury, I probably wouldn't pick any of them either. I just think the Audi does the best in the luxo-sport arena.

And yes, I've driven the 2006 A4 (2.0, 3.2, and S4), 2006 325xi, and 2005 LGT