I live about an hour from Martinsville VA, where today's race was rained out. I have the day off tomorrow and was thinking about going up and picking up a cheap ticket and watching the race. It's supposed to be a beautiful day, and it's NASCAR's oldest and most historic track (as well as one of the most exciting.) I'm not much of a NASCAR fan, but it's a chance to see a WInston Cup race nearby at an exciting venue.

My question is this: Has anyone here ever attended a rained-out Winston Cup event on a Monday, and do you know if there were cheap tix to be had? I'm not enough of a fan of "stand on it and turn left" racing to pay $50, but if I could go watch a motorsports event on a beautiful fall Monday for $20 or so, I'm there!! I don't really want to drive there and back and find out I can't get a ticket though.. anyone have any experience at this?

I tried a NASCAR chat room, but there were too many moroans to get a word in edgewise...

Good luck finding a NASCAR fan here man.. NASCAR is to motorsport as the XFL was to football.. It's just all bad. I can understand that it is pretty cool to go see a "race" (more like a marketing exposition) on a nice fall day.. But I'm thinking that you're probably looking in the wrong place for fans of NASCAR.

Uhhh, I already knew that (you may have noticed that my member #'s a little lower than your's...) That's why I addressed this thread to "NASCAR fans" If you're not one, why the hell did you waste your time reading the thread?!? FWIW the whole NASCAR fan vs. NASCAR hater thing has been discussed here a few times in the past, and there are a few fans here. Me, I think they put on a good show. Would I rather be going to a rally or superbike race? Yes. But they're not running at Martinsville tomorrow...

Proud fan of NASCAR here! I would guess that there would be a few people looking to get rifd of their tickets because they could not make Monday's race. But the majority of the fans would just stay and make the race :). Wouldn't hurt to try and get a seat, seeing any type of race in person is a million times better than watching on TV. The sound of 42 - 800HP cars rush by when they wave the green flag is something to see. Good luck, let me know how it is...I can't get TNT at work to watch it! :(

I went to the Fall race at Martinsville a few years back. The track is a blast and a real throwback. The smell of brakes at the turns is fabulous. I think you could probably walk right up and get a good ticket for cheap. Do it. The sound alone is worth it.

motorob: Wow.. Sorry, and just for reference, your member number may be lower (which I failed to notice untill you so tactfully pointed it out..) but that doesn't give you the right to be mean to people.. Like you've never replied to a thread that wasn't expressly intended for you?:(

Check online. I'm sure the track has an online site with ticket info. I've been to a Nascar race before, never again! I had free tickets otherwise I wouldn't have gone. :) Actually, it was ok, but I couldn't see myself sitting there for 5 hours. I stayed maybe a little more than an hour and left. It was too boring for me. Maybe because I don't drink it wasn't any fun. :lol: I'm just kidding! :p

If you really have nothing to do and you can spend about $20, then go do it. Even just go for the experience and see how it is. But I know I wouldn't pay $50.

AScooby25rs - I hardly think motorob was being "mean", it seems to me his comments were completely justified. You clearly posted your "NASCAR sucks" opinion in a thread that specifically asked for NASCAR fans. If you want to read the thread, that's fine, but your reply was completely uncalled for.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

Oh come now, You're being ridiculous. You can't possibly be serious in believing that all NASCAR drivers are beer-bellied hicks, can you? I'd like to see you drive a huge aerodynamic-as-a-brick piece of history (iron block, carburetor, solid rear axle) around an oval for 500 miles.

While I thoroughly despise everything about NASCAR, I still recognize that the drivers have to be in some semblance of shape. You simply can't be some out of shape couch potato and be able to drive a race car very well. It can't happen, even if all you have to do is turn left.

And yes, you are entitled to your opinion. But your comments were more than that. They were an immature and inaccurate belittling of the talents of a set of race car drivers. Driving on an oval does not require less skill than driving a road course, just different. The precision necessary lap after lap is incredible, where a tiny mistake on lap 20 means that on lap 35 the guy behind you is going to make a run and pass.

Comments that I believed could be thought of as inflamatory have been removed.

I appriciate those, Nascar fans or not, who have kept this post civil and on topic.

Opie
Moderator

first a question: Did Motorob ever make it to Martinsville?

then a comment: NASCAR is not about technology. However, it is a very evenly matched and often exciting form of racing. I admit that at this time of the season, I'm a bit bored with it. however, it is still great entertainment, and beats the heck out of watching an NFL or NBA game. Are the drivers good? You bet. Try running 500 miles at 180 mph with someone 3" from your back bumper and 3" from your door. These guys are good. the drivers are also tough. A few years ago Earnhardt broke several ribs AND his sternum in a horrific wreck, and qualified his car on the pole at Watkins Glen the next week. Where he had to turn right AND left. He became one of my heroes that day.

NASCAR is undoubtedly a marketing and merchandising machine. But those who would criticize this should look at Bernie's F1 circus. I've been to 3 - 4 NASCAR races, and 10+ F1 races. I've also been to a Petit Le Mans, Trans Am and my Saturday nite local short track. There is no shortage of marketing and merchandising hype at F1 or any of these venues. I just love racing.

Now, while I am a beer swilling redneck fat guy, I am also an Ivy league graduate, professionally employed, and a grandfather. To those that would paint a picture of NASCAR fans as toothless goobers I say: study your demographics a bit more, you're sadly mistaken. NASCAR may not be for you, but don't knock it or the people who follow it.

Well said grandpa rex.

Thanks grandpa rex. Very well spoken. I get sick and tired of reading about all the slams on NASCAR drivers. I watch just about any motorsports on 4 wheels (except the WWF of racing, monster truck racing). They all have a few details that detract from it. How often do you see brilliant driving lead to overtaking on the track in F1? Very seldom. Only the top 3 teams can contend, but even then they are separated by wya too much time on the track at the end of the race. Can CART seem to keep from looking like a bunch of bumbling idiots on & off track? No, just look at the TMS and now engine pkg. debacle. Anyway thanks again for the intelligent comments on racing as a whole.

motorob - did you go? it's good to hear Ricky Craven won after all the problems he went through early in his career.

Ok, first of all.. An apology.. I guess that my reply was unnecessary, but last I checked, it was ok to post in any thread that you so desired, regardless of whether it pertains directly to the subject.. regardless, I apologize. Second.. I think that grandpa rex said a mouthfull there.. I don't think that NASCAR is evil or anything.. I just personally don't like it so much. I lived outside of Charlotte, NC for quite some time, and I've had the pleasure (yes I did say pleasure) to attend quite a few races at the Charlotte Motor Speedway (now Lowes Motor Speedway?) Anyhow, I wasn't there to be part of the redneck festivities that are sometimes an unfortunate part of a NASCAR race (by no means an implication that all NASCAR fans are rednecks, but even as a fan, you have to admit that some are) I was there to see a race, I can't sit through 10 minutes of an NFL or NBA game, but no matter how I feel about NASCAR, it's still a race. As far as referring to the drivers as "untalented" or "fat beer swilling idiots"? That's as far from the truth as anything can be. Show me a fat untalented NASCAR driver. To the people who say that.. here's an idea.. You do it.. get in that hot, fast, loud car and drive for 500+ miles and then tell me it doesn't take talent. I couldn't do it, and I have the utmost admiration for anyone who can and does. For God's sake, a tear came to my eye when I heard about Dale Earnhardt (how many F-1 fans can say that), when I was a kid, he was my hero. I watched that race and I'll never forget it.. My main "beef" with NASCAR is not even with NASCAR, it's with the American market in general, you tell someone that you like racing, the immediate reply 60% of the time is "how on earth can you watch those stupid cars go around in circles for 3 hours??!". The other 40% of the time, you get something like this.. "oh yeah?! me to! how 'bout that race Dale Junior had last weekend"? The American general public is turned off from motorsports because they think that the only racing anywhere is on ovals. I think that's unfortunate, for two reasons.. One, they may never enjoy the thrill of motorsports, just because NASCAR doesn't necessarily appeal to them, that doesn't mean they won't like some other form of racing.. And two.. most big NASCAR fans (in my experience) are very much ignorant toward any other kind of racing and don't care much to see any other kind of racing. Unfortunately for guys like me, the American broadcasting industry seems to follow suit. How many F1 races are on ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX? One.. USGP. And now Speedvision is going to increase their NASCAR coverage? At what cost? F1? WRC? ALMS? like the other 4 networks aren't doing a good enough job? That's what irritates me.. Well, anyhow.. I've said more than enough. Sorry again..

So... Motorob! Didja go or not?

Look at the mess you left behind in here! Just by mentioning the word NASCAR, you caused one heck of a long cat fight here. :lol:

Originally posted by AScooby25rs
... Well, anyhow.. I've said more than enough...I'll say! I thought my posts were too long! :lol:

How's this for perspective. Some folks, like my wife, don't care for motorsports at all, so they think we're all goobers! In respect to grandpa rex's excellent essay, not toothless goobers of course, just regular goobers.
;)

I'm sorry for the long post.. Anyhow.. I do agree that we're probably all goobers to some people..

-Alan <<<< King Goober!!!:lol:

Yes I went!! Sorry about the mess I left behind here, but I have not been on the board too much these days, and for precisely this reason. This place has become a flame-festival, too much old vs. new Impreza, this vs. that, and general sniping. It seems that very little of the camaraderie of just a year ago remains, and it's impossible to do anything here beyond technical study. Anything of a subjective nature turns into an argument. I basically just occaisionally check out a couple of forums and scram, definitely don't post much anymore and for just this reason. Try to ask a simple "fact-based" question and get preached to - no thanks.

The race rocked, got ticket for $10, stands were c.60-70% full, so I could move to GREAT seats, almost midway on back straight. But there are no bad seats there, it was shocking, Martinsville is about the size of a high-school football stadium. The smell of brake pads is the first thing you notice that you don't get on TV. The locals were really excited that the Burton brothers did so well, that was kind of cool. I borrowed a scanner from a friend too, that was really cool. I can't post here what Kevin Harvick was saying when he had to serve that penalty!! I didn't know much about Ricky Craven, so I didn't appreciate how cool it was that he won until I got home. You know, I always think of NASCAR as being appealing because of haw simple it is, simple racing for simple people (obligatory anti-NASCAR comment ;)), but without the television to explain some of the pit strategy to you I found it kind of hard to follow. I guess I'm dumber than I thought. That, and how NASCAR changes the order around on cautions and that kind of stuff, I just find it really arbitrary and confusing. But a lot of that is exaggerated at a really short track I guess, where you have people on 5 different laps at once.

It sure beat the hell out of raking the yard!!!

PS Ascooby, I thought your long post was a very thoughtful take on "racing in America". Peace out.

Ok, totally NASCAR happened to be on Speedvision tonight as I was making dinner. I've never had a very high opionion of NASCAR (yes I realize it takes skill to drive at 180mph for hours on end, I just don't like it, especially compared to things like WRC and F1, sorry), but this show amazed me. The first thing; they've had 5 deaths in the past year and a half; is that a "typical" attrition rate for the series? I mean, I know they have a lot of drivers and teams, but 5 deaths in 18 months seems like an awful lot to me. They then proceeded to spend a large portion of the show on the HANS(and the like) debate. Really, with 5 deaths in 18 months, what's left to debate?! Use the damn things, shut up about it, and drive; if you don't want to, I'm sure there're thousands of eager young Americans that would kill for the chance at a NASCAR drive. What kind of racing series is this anyway? I guess I just find it odd when contrasted to the changes that took place in F1 in 1994 immediately following "only" 2(I believe) deaths. Oh well, I've never really liked NASCAR, so maybe I'm just seeing this from too negative a point of view?

Originally posted by motorob
...The race rocked, got ticket for $10, stands were c.60-70% full, so I could move to GREAT seats...Cool! I'm glad you went and had a good time. I was curious if you went because I was jealous. Even though I personally don't care much for NASCAR, I would have done the same thing. Especially since Martinsville is a half miler, so it's old school racing in there, and I find the paper-clip long-straight w/tight-turns on each end lay-out intriguing.

OT: Regarding sniping and flaming on i-club forums, I believe it will turn around. The Imprezidents are seeing the same problem I believe, and their action of closing down the WRX forum may return some of the unity that these boards had only a few months ago.

All Impreza models are unique, good cars, and I'm proud to own one. My wife likes our Impreza so much that we will probably buy another one for her as soon as we can afford to do so. My point is that the joy of driving an Impreza is something most all of us share, and in time it will bring back some unity of spirit to the i-club.

Originally posted by ForceFed4
...with 5 deaths in 18 months, what's left to debate?! Use the damn things, shut up about it, and drive... What kind of racing series is this anyway? I guess I just find it odd when contrasted to the changes that took place in F1 in 1994 immediately following "only" 2(I believe) deaths. Oh well, I've never really liked NASCAR, so maybe I'm just seeing this from too negative a point of view? You are not alone in that opinion. Many other people who follow other high level professional racing series have been surprised by NASCAR's approach to safety. Apparently, the reluctance of NASCAR to study and address safety issues stems from their culture. I think Richard Petty exemplified the thinking of NASCAR when he lost his grandson in one of those five crashes. He didn't want the accident investigated. His reaction was, "I guess it was just his time."

Perhaps NASCAR shared that attitude, or maybe they didn't have the fortitude to overcome it in their garages, but when they lost their #1 star, many of the folks in the garages changed their attitude about safety. Now, only few in the garages feel that NASCAR is shoving this down their throat. Many drivers started using the HANS device on their own accord after the Daytona 500. Plus NASCAR is such a huge circus now, that all the money involved probably forced them to take more responsibility for their competitors' safety as well.

This is a big change for these folks. I think it says alot about NASCAR that they did not raise a finger about this issue until what is apparently the 5th death from basalar skull fracture (http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=189135&highlight=basalar#post189135), and only because he was their biggest star, and he bought it so dramatically in their #1 race on the last lap, last turn. It is disappointing because the technology they are starting to implement now, (black boxes, HANS devices, etc.) was there the whole time, and being actively used in other series. To have lost so much good talent... it is an inexcusable waste.
:(

That, IMHO, is the worst thing about NASCAR. I can ramble on about lack of technology all day, but to have such disregard for driver safety is beyond irresponsible and verging on negligent. It seems they are spending too much time signing sponsorship deals and not enough realizing that the cars could be made safer.

Speaking of 1994 and F1, have they had any deaths since then? Sorry for my ignorance, but while I thoroughly enjoy F1 I'm not the afficionado that many here seem to be.

On topic: That's great that you got to go for such a cheap price. I'm also glad you had fun. It's not my thing, but that's OK (isn't that what makes America great?) The only roundy-round race I've ever been to was this year's Indy 500. That was cool, but I paid the price ($75 per seat, though they were on the fifth row at the entrance to turn 3). I'm glad I went though. There's nothing quite like a real live motorsports event to get your adrenaline going.

Sorry but the people who go on about the lack of safety on nascar are spouting pig manure.

Sure they are behind in implementing things like black boxes, but hell they DON'T really need them. Cart and IRL implemented them for the sole reason that people were FREQUENTLY ending up in the hospital with head and neck injuries and they COULD NOT figure out why.

Next up 5 deaths in short period of time? Well guess what its a SPORT. No one is going off about football even though severa people have died recently. Also a good many of them are very simple to understand. Its called comming to a stop SUDDENLY from 150+ mph is going to maim and kill REGARDLESS. All the oval racing series that get up past 180mph will have these problems. You will note that on these nearly all of the deaths were when the car had a "problem" just before or at the braking point and cut across the infield and continued in a straight line to impact the wall at a large angle. There is two problems with these impacts. The distance traveled across the grass does nearly nothing to stop the car, and the sharp angle makes for a sudden and brutal stop. If you can hit at a shallow angle most of the force will cause the car to "turn" which increases the time to dissapate the total force. In otherword woudl you like a 50lb wieght put on your chest for 10 min or a 5000lb one for .1 minute?

I'll finish with the simple fact that ALL racing series restrict technology, and NASCAR simply kept it lower to reduce costs, and make the racign closer. They do not oppose DEVLOPMENT, but they don;t want $1M engines, with a huge support staff. They also don't want one maker throwing huge wads of $$ at the series and trying to run away with the sport. F1, CART and IRL could learn ALOT from NASCAR in that regard.

Its called comming to a stop SUDDENLY from 150+ mph is going to maim and kill REGARDLESS.

On a modern open-wheel car, there is mostly no such thing as a sudden stop (no matter what. The carbon structures are built to dissipate energy in a controlled fashion. There have been several crashes involving CART and F1 where they wound up merely bruised up for a couple of weeks (severely, but still just bruises) or maybe a couple of minor fractures. These same sorts of impacts in a Winston Cup car would severely injure or kill the driver. That, to me, is unsafe. Likewise, they are many years behind the times when it comes to other safety issues. For example, in F1 they use seats that are removed as a unit with the driver still in it so they can be examined before potentially suffering more spinal trauma (does CART do this as well?). That may be difficult to achieve in a car that isn't open, but there must be some solution. AFAIK, in general, there are no areas of a stock car built to dissipate crash energy in a controlled manner.

While I realize that this is after all, racing, this does not any longer imply that the driver should intentionally be placed at risk unneccesarily. If there is a way for racing to be safer, it probably should be (without ruining the intent of the sport, that is. Nobody wants racing to be so slow as to be hopelessly boring).

With regard to the technology issue, we can probably debate it forever with no resolution. My major issue is that the technology involved is many years behind what's even in a modern passenger car (even they have crumple zones). It is my belief that race cars should contain technology that points to the future (however far away) of automobiles that you or I can purchase at our local (hopefully Subaru ;) ) dealer. I therefore mourn the loss of Active in F1 long ago as much as I despise the carburetted solid-axle iron-block stock cars.