Ok, here is the story...

Just an hour ago, I went to fill the car up with the usual does of 94 octane sunoco juice. As soon as I was done, and went to start the car, the CEL came on. I had not even moved from the pumps and the CEL came on :furious:

I went straight to the local parts store and picked up an OBDII scanner, hoping that it will pull the code for me. I know that without a code, finding the problem is like pissing in the wind.

I bought the scanner and connected it only to find that it is unable to connect to the ecu. I have used this same brand scanner in the past, and it was successful, so I am confused.

I just got the ecu reflashed 3 months ago at a new ECUTEK tuner (before that I was running ecutek but from a diff tuner).

Here is the kicker...

Before I got my ecu reflashed at the new tuner, I was able to pull CEL codes from the ecu without issue. Last year I was able to pull codes without issue.

Fast forward to this year and a new reflash, and the scanner cannot connect...

Ideas?

hmm no responses..

Anyway, I found from a few tuners that the reflash does not lock you out with regard to trying to pull CEL codes from the ecu. I suspected this since I was able to pull codes last year summer with the previous reflash, but not now with the new reflash on there..

I think i will be returning the OBD2 scanner to try out another one.

I guess the mods can close this thread now :o

We have had no problems checking OBD2 codes with a various automotive scanners with the any EcuTeK tuned vehicles. If you seem to be having problems I would suggest trying another scan tool as that one may not be working.

Just to test to see if the reflash is really causing the problem, try using someone else's scan tool that works on their untouched ECU and please post your results.

Cheers,
Crawford Performance / I-Speed USA

Yes, please use the reader you have now on a friends car to see if it works. Let us know.

okay... Here is what happened... With the first scanner that used to be able to connect to my ecu on the old ecutek flash, there was no connection. That was on a 250 dollar scanner that had worked on the ecu with my previous ecutek flash from a different tuner.

I had to go purchase a 350 dollar scanner for CANOBD2, which was able to connect with the ecu which had been reflashed 3 months ago at a new tuner.

I found this confusing since the same manufacturer makes both scanners, and my car is on their list of compatible ecu's for the cheaper OBD2 scanner.

The other thing that i don't get is that since my car is an 02 car, it does not make use of the CAN system. I know it is obd2, but not canobd2. So seems that i needed a CanOBD2 scanner to be able to interface with my ecu.

Am I the only one that finds that odd?

I am a little hesitant as to whether i want to hold on to the scanner since know it can read the ecu, but forkingout almost 400 dollars for an obdII scanner seems a little steep no? I bought it in the first place just to see if it would be able to connect with the ecu, which it did. The price i paid though eats away at my conscience though... :furious:

You really need to try and use the other simple OBD2 scanner you had. If it doesn't work on yours, but it does work on a friend's WRX then you know where you are. Keep your variables to a minimum to be able to find the exact problem.

i would try it on someone else's car, but there aren't too many wrx owners around my neck of the woods.

The same scanner worked fine on the car just over a year ago with a different ecutek flash from a different tuner from what i am using now.

And then fast forward to now, the same model scanner would not work anymore.

Initially, I thought that there had to be something wrong with my car, but when I exchanged the scanner for a second unit with same model number, I got the same "Error" code come up on screen. It wasn't until I went to the higher end unit that it could connect.

The autostore told me that since the units are constantly being changed by the manufacturer, one of the changes they made meant that my car would not be compatible with the system (even though previous versions were). This was kinda supported by the list of cars that the unit was supposed to be NOT compatible with. The 02 Impreza 2.0L turbo was not on the list. Guess they need to update it now...

Only thing that changed on the car was the mods and the reflash from a new ecutek tuner...

I mean, as long as I found a scanner that can connect, I am happy.... I guess my bank account isn't as happy about it since the $$ could have been spent on hookers and booze... I just don't understand why it should take such an expensive scan tool to be able to connect to the ecu. I am sure i would not end up using 1/5th of the extra features that the scanner has over the cheaper one..... except it's uncanny ability to talk to my ecu, which the cheaper one cannot do anymore...:D

Go by Autozone and see if their cheap scanner will connect. If it doesn't, you know your answer and you know what you'll have to do. I would certainly try another "generic" OBD2 scanner first... just to be sure.

will do...

Thanks for the tip :)

Just so if I understand what you are saying.....you used a CANBUS/OBD2 based scanner and were able to connect to the 2002 ecutek reflashed ecu?

That ecu should be using ISO not CANBUS for its OBD2. Maybe the change is related to what ecutek did to obfuscate?

Just goto autozone and they wil llend you the tool.

That ecu should be using ISO not CANBUS for its OBD2. Maybe the change is related to what ecutek did to obfuscate?

If that's the case it certainly nothing orginal in what EcuTek did to lock things down. I read somewhere that CAN was supposed to be used in the newest Subarus or something to that effect. If that's the case all they did is copied Subaru's OEM standards and pushed them to the earlier ECUs. This would certainly explain why they are so adamant about their lockout not interfearing with "SSM" Subaru handheld diag tools. All of those have been updated to use CAN for the newer vehicles so it would obviously support the old with the changes they made.

What was that about everyone saying that EcuTek and Cobb don't copy Subaru's standards to make things work? :lol: Who's calling the kettle black now huh?

Of course the CAN thing is really all educated speculation at the moment...

Just so if I understand what you are saying.....you used a CANBUS/OBD2 based scanner and were able to connect to the 2002 ecutek reflashed ecu?

That ecu should be using ISO not CANBUS for its OBD2. Maybe the change is related to what ecutek did to obfuscate?


Correct.... I used a CANBUS/OBDII scanner to connect to my 02 ecutek reflashed ecu. The OBDII scanner from the same manufacturer would not connect....

only difference i could see between both scanners apart from price is that one was a canbus/obdII unit, and the other was just an obdII unit.

I read somewhere that CAN was supposed to be used in the newest Subarus or something to that effect....


that was my understanding as well, which was why i was thrown aback when i found that i needed a canbus obdII scanner to connect to the ecu.

subaru did not start using the CAN bus until the '05 model year----NOBODY used it until the '05 MY, AFAIK

subaru did not start using the CAN bus until the '05 model year----NOBODY used it until the '05 MY, AFAIK


my thought as well too! It was a very recent introduction.... A very confusing situation to say the least...Hopefully after the long weekend i can get my hands on another generic obdII scanner and try that out

My Actron 9135 has never failed to scan ANY car that I have plugged it into....and that includes LOTS of Subaru's and non-Subaru's---including my '02 WRX and my '06 WRX

My Actron 9135 has never failed to scan ANY car that I have plugged it into....and that includes LOTS of Subaru's and non-Subaru's---including my '02 WRX and my '06 WRX

That is the make of scanner that i am looking to try next on the car. I am told that it would work perfectly with no issues at all.

I am trying to find where i can get one from. The thing about the current scanner that bugs me however is how much i had to fork out for it... If i were a professional shop that would charge others to pull their codes, I would not mind.. But since I will rarely use the thing, I would rather have paid less for something that works..

This one i have has the ability to test for emmisions readiness as well as give a readout of the conditions under which the cel was triggered (ie closed/open loop operation, revs, a/f ratio, coolant temp and throttle position i believe... ) and a few other things. A very interesting device, but i fear i won't use 1/8th of its features which is why i wouldn't mind getting something simpler and cheaper. Until i find one though, i'll likely hold on to this one, but i am on the hunt for the actron unit.

You definatly need to get to Autozone and see if a cheapy cheap scanner will work. Now I'm interested to know the truth as well.

Over the course of time, SOA has created 5 different ROM updates for the 2002 WRX. Also, Subaru began using the KWP2000 OBD-II protocol in 2003. It's possible that, when creating one of the later ROM updates for the 2002 WRX, Subaru incorporated the new KWP2000 OBD-II protocol into the fix. Your EcuTeK tuner may have based his tune on the most recently available Subaru ROM update.

Some scan tools which work fine with the older ISO 9141 protocol don't work at all with the KWP2000 protocol.

It might be useful if jigga would hook up his fancy new scan tool and tell us what it reports for Calibration ID, which is usually part of the Vehicle Information data.

']Over the course of time, SOA has created 5 different ROM updates for the 2002 WRX. Also, Subaru began using the KWP2000 OBD-II protocol in 2003. It's possible that, when creating one of the later ROM updates for the 2002 WRX, Subaru incorporated the new KWP2000 OBD-II protocol into the fix. Your EcuTeK tuner may have based his tune on the most recently available Subaru ROM update.

Some scan tools which work fine with the older ISO 9141 protocol don't work at all with the KWP2000 protocol.

It might be useful if jigga would hook up his fancy new scan tool and tell us what it reports for Calibration ID, which is usually part of the Vehicle Information data.
I've reflashed my 02 with A4SGE01C, the latest known revision for the 02s, and my 5+ year old Auterra PDA OBDII logger has no trouble connecting and reading codes.

I've reflashed my 02 with A4SGE01C, the latest known revision for the 02s, and my 5+ year old Auterra PDA OBDII logger has no trouble connecting and reading codes.This tells us nothing about why jigga's scanner wouldn't work. I wonder why jigga doesn't want to tell us the make and model of the scanner that doesn't work.

']This tells us nothing about why jigga's scanner wouldn't work. I wonder why jigga doesn't want to tell us the make and model of the scanner that doesn't work.
Maybe not, but it goes against the idea that Subaru applied the newer OBDII protocol to later revisions. Besides, every 02 Ecutek'd ROM that I've seen uses A4SGC00C, even recent ones.

I was talking with another WRX owner on this board with a recent Ecutek custom tune, and he had taken his car to the dealer to check out a failed O2 sensor. The Subaru tech said he could not connect to his car at all. He has the Ecutek dash monitor which works fine, but the tech couldn't do any diagnostics.

']This tells us nothing about why jigga's scanner wouldn't work. I wonder why jigga doesn't want to tell us the make and model of the scanner that doesn't work.


No reason at all, I can give the model of the scanner... I just did not know it off the top of my head while posting...

The first one i got was the Inova 3100 which could not connect to the ecu at all..

The second scanner which was the Inova 3110F which is the obdII CAN reader which is able to connect to the ecu and read codes.

To my knowlege, the ecu has not been swapped out at all since i bought the car new. Just reflashed by 3 ecutek tuners.

I was talking with another WRX owner on this board with a recent Ecutek custom tune, and he had taken his car to the dealer to check out a failed O2 sensor. The Subaru tech said he could not connect to his car at all. He has the Ecutek dash monitor which works fine, but the tech couldn't do any diagnostics.

and the plot thickens....

I have not taken my car in to get any diagnostics done or anything, so I cannot comment as to what happens when the dealer tries to connect to the ecu.

The first one i got was the Inova 3100 which could not connect to the ecu at all..

The second scanner which was the Inova 3110F which is the obdII CAN reader which is able to connect to the ecu and read codes.The 3100F probably worked not because it has CAN capabability, but because it has a more recent microcode level. Innova 3100 scanners frequently seem to have trouble scanning newly introduced Subarus (e.g. STi in 2003) and the company blames it on Subaru's OBD implementation. Eventually they get ahold of whatever Subaru isn't working and revise the microcode in the scanner so that it does work.

Do a search of the Tech forums for Innova (two Ns) and or Equus. It's conceivable that every Innova faliure to connect was with an EcuTeK'd ECU, but I doubt it.

BTW, jigga, what's your ECU's current Calibration ID?

']The 3100F probably worked not because it has CAN capabability, but because it has a more recent microcode level. Innova 3100 scanners frequently seem to have trouble scanning newly introduced Subarus (e.g. STi in 2003) and the company blames it on Subaru's OBD implementation. Eventually they get ahold of whatever Subaru isn't working and revise the microcode in the scanner so that it does work.

Do a search of the Tech forums for Innova (two Ns) and or Equus. It's conceivable that every Innova faliure to connect was with an EcuTeK'd ECU, but I doubt it.

BTW, jigga, what's your ECU's current Calibration ID?

Jon, you might be right on this one. Unfortunately Innova's scanner is the only one that I have access to.

Oddly enough though, I used an innova scanner a couple of years ago, and it was able to connect to the ecu.

Where do i find the current calibration ID? Do you mean the current tuner?

Jon,

I think you might be right bout the scanner. I connected it again yesterday and saw that it was connecting using the iso protocol. Which means that it is not using the can capability to connect.

i am still confused though since i have used the cheaaper version just over a year ago to connect successfully to the ecu.

I still would be curious to see if the dealer can connect their scanners to the ecu, but that will have to wait until i next go in for an oil change.

Ok, so I think we have it summarised that the OBD2 functions are probably untouched. According to ecutek's press on this stuff, the OBD2 and SSM access is unaffected.

Thats why ecuexplorer and Deltadash are unaffected and the dealer SSM tools are also unaffected for every function except reflashing. AP is also unable to reflash over top of ecutek as well which further supports what we know.

All that is left for them to have changed is the reflash init sequence.....someone needs to put a scope on and record some waveforms during a reflash if they want to code a tool that will be able to help these people stuck with a tune they cannot get rid of or alter.

Who really cares from a user-tuning perspective? No one is really interested in seeing what other tuners are doing, we already know what they are doing or not doing from what we have already seen out there. Some of it is brilliant, some of it is bordering on fraudulent. Too late on that, the cats already out of the bag regarding the tuner's precious secrets. No one in the opensource community gives a damn about that info or accessing those tunes unless it is someone who just wants to tweak something on their own car.

There has been much in the ECUtek community lately that is scary. There is a sticky on IWSTI talking about the inability of any scan/reflash tool to connect to the ECU at all after an Ecutek reflash. Definitely not cool.

There has been much in the ECUtek community lately that is scary. There is a sticky on IWSTI talking about the inability of any scan/reflash tool to connect to the ECU at all after an Ecutek reflash. Definitely not cool.

Yeh, definitely understandable since one still needs to be able to pull a code if the CEL comes on...

I am glad though that i was able to get a scanner to conect eventually. I initially had that odd feeling of one being locked out of their own home at first... :eek: