I'm irked at SOA for charging $250.+ for the Impreza service manual.

I see that somebody's already posted the maintenance schedule, which is super, but not even the tip of the iceberg.

Seems to me that one of you guys that knows so much about computers ought to be able to post the entire service manual on the web so that I can download it for free.

Yes, I know this is probably some form of copyright infringement, but if SOA really wants to get after me then they can explain to twelve of my peers why they're charging $250.+ for something that really should've come free with the car.

I think you might spend $250 at the copy machine. OK, not really, but its a lot of paper.

I have the set for the MY 2000 Impreza... 8 volumes. They total about 6 inches thick. My estimation is its somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 pages if you print it out single sided.

If this is something you want to do, I suggest finding someone local and copying the pages you want, rather than the whole set. Don't get me wrong, its very useful. But how often are you going to need the 600 pages of OBD II?

It seems to me someone needs to buck up and get real. The service manual is not meant for the average Joe- hence the hefty price tag ;). Try buying the 1999RS Manuals... you have to buy 1993 to 1999 to get it all (~$800 ;)). I have 0 problems hosting the service manual, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $250 to buy it myself just so you can have it for free ;).


Brian
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com
http://www.imprezamods.com
http://www.scoobymods.com
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?

Originally posted by North Ursalia
I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $250 to buy it myself just so you can have it for free ;).


and face the wrath of FHI lawyers trying to close your website down for copyright violations!

Ed

Bah, someone at SOA already gave me shiznats for the part numbers on my site... too bad that's public information :). For every site that can be shut, 4 more can be in it's place within hours :). I'll just host it in Khazakstan or something ;).

Brian
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com
http://www.imprezamods.com
http://www.scoobymods.com
Prune juice: two out of three proctologists can't be wrong!

"The crows flies at midnight....."

Let me know when to 'flip the switch' on my new site in Armenia! :lol:

Everyone,
I am also looking for a service manual or at least a website that will provide access to the manual for a 2002 WRX Sport Wagon. I just purchased accessories from SubaruParts.com and it is interesting to note that there are no instructions with the short throw shifter and the instructions that were packaged with the shift knob were in japanese only.
For everyone who owns a 1999 or older Subaru, if you point and click on www.alldatadiy.com , you can purchase a one year subscription for access to a service manual for $25. Unfortunately, only professional mechanics that subscribe to the entire service get access to the newest manuals.

Steve Galper, MD

sgalper, how do they present the manual online? Is it downloadable? Are individual pages downloadable? Or is it all non-saveable and online only?

Well, if you go to the site, they have a demo of the program using a Tempo and a Ranger ;). It's good, but not great if you have dialup like me :(.

Brian
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com
http://www.imprezamods.com
http://www.scoobymods.com
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?

That's a clunky interface!

If someone wants to loan the manuals, I'll scan the pages and make a PDF out of it.

Julian,
Instead of a pirate, why not a partnership? I am willing to pay $ 25. toward the cost of a copy of the service manual for the WRX. If nine other people who are interested will e-mail me, then I will front the cost of the manual. Everyone who pays their $25. will then get a copy. I propose that Julian gets a free copy for doing all the work.

Steve Galper, MD
sgalper@u.arizona.edu

hmm... a friend of mine was telling me about these IRC bookwarez channels that he found... i'm at work now but i'll check it out and see what i can find when i get home today. He says that he can find pretty much anything there, so keep your fingers crossed. Of course this information is strictly for evaluational purposes and if you like the product you must purchase it within 48 hours of downloading it :) :)

sgalper, now that's an idea! And it would seem legal-ish (fair use clause), to boot.

It'll take a while, but is certainly possible.

Originally posted by sgalper
Julian,
Instead of a pirate, why not a partnership? I am willing to pay $ 25. toward the cost of a copy of the service manual for the WRX. If nine other people who are interested will e-mail me, then I will front the cost of the manual. Everyone who pays their $25. will then get a copy. I propose that Julian gets a free copy for doing all the work.

Steve Galper, MD
sgalper@u.arizona.edu

put me on the list. Plus, there isn't a site to prove that a copy exists.

-C

I'm on as well for $25 for the copy. Are you talking about copy on CD-ROM or copy on regular paper from a print shop? Either case, I'm in the GB.

I'm in for 25.00 don't know if it is legal thought.

The partnership idea is interesting, but do you realize what you're up against?

I have 7 of the 8 manuals on my desk right now. The stack is over 6" high, and the last manual is at least another inch thick. That's several Thousand pages to photocopy. The pages are bound, so you can't run them through an automatic feeder, you'll have to stand there and manually press each page down on the glass.

If this gets done, I'll be truly impressed.:eek:

Dr. Galper, you've proposed just what I wanted in the original post!

I'll gladly put up $25.- to get the thing as a PDF, I sent you an e-mail.

RE: Photocopying it... I don't really want a print version, I probably won't use most of the pages anyway, and those few that come in handy I'll print off the old ink jet at home.

BUT, somebody's still going to have to scan in all thos pages... this is probably worth more than a free copy of what we've hopefully reduced to a $25.- manual.

Julian,
I am ready to purchase the manual for the partnership. Enough interest has been shown that I am ready to order the service manual and front the cost. Are you ready to scan all the volumes and make a PDF file for the ten individuals who are in the partnership? Once I receive your post that you are still willing to move forward, I will place the order and mail the manuals to you. No member of the partnership has to mail any money to me until the project is complete. I will account for all the costs involved in the transaction and expect that each person will contribute 10 percent of the cost. There will be no profit in this transaction and I will not make any material available to anyone that is not in the partnership.

Steve

Hmm.. After measuring the thickness of one manual and counting the pages, I estimate that the complete set is about 3500 pages.

How much time will it take a person to scan a page, fiddle with it in software and print it to a PDF file? I'd guess 2 minutes is very optimistic, probably more like 3 minutes. Let's use 2.5 minutes as an example. Maybe someone with some programming skills could write a macro or script to automate the process.

3500 x 2.5 minutes is 8750 minutes, or 146 hours. At 8 hrs/day, that's over 18 days as a 'fulltime' job.

I'd guess running them off on a copier might take 15 seconds per page to print one copy, more copies could be run later from the 1st copy, on an automatic copier to save time. 3500 x 15 sec = almost 15 hours standing at the copier.

BTW, I could not find any copyright notices in any of the manuals, so one could argue that copying them violates no copyright laws.

Who will be going to countries like Taiwan or Korea. You can get the whole manual copied and bounded for around 20 bucks. They do a wonderful job. We can have that shipped back afterward. The total cost should not be more than 35 bucks, with shipping back to our door steps. Don't know if they have places where they can scan it into CD-ROM, which is the preferred way. I would imagine if they do, it will probably cost twice the amount to copy.

Well, I go away for the weekend, then come back to find another project waiting for me!

To answer some of the questions:

I can do it. In fact, I have done it before. It will not be 18 days, however. It will take me a couple months (2-3) to get everything scanned in and processed/PDFed, and the CDs made and tested.

If I did it, what you would end up with is this:

A CD-ROM with all the manuals on PDF, in sections as is appropriate. There'd be an autorun for PCs (though the PDFs would be viewable on any computer (Mac) that can read ISO CD-ROMs and has an Acrobat Reader program available for it. The PDF files wouldn't be searchable, since I'd be scanning it in as a graphic (OCR would take longer, and I don't have the best software for that); however, the PDFs would all have bookmarks as is appropriate. The quality should be very good, and the page zoomable (default on-screen display would be like 70%, so you could magnify the remaining to 100% to see detail).

Also, I'd have to lop the binding off the manuals, but if it is already drilled for three-hole binders, then they'd go right back in.

Thoughts?

Julian

2-3 months, 3500 pages, 8" thick this gives a whole new meaning to manual labor.
:lol:

No copyright notes on the original manuals? Interesting.

One thing to think about is a "payment plan." Since these are available in volumes and you don't need ALL the volumes, you may want to just purchase them as required. Maybe you only need the engine manual now. You certainly won't need BOTH the automatic and manual transmission volumes. So next time you need the Body Electrical manual. Just pay as you go.

If were organizing this, I would start a thread on another board or communicate via PM & email. Better safe than sorry. Maybe I'm just paranoid.

M, if different people start asking for different configurations of the CD-ROM, then it will become more difficult to manage administratively. If there is only one choice, then the person who is managing this huge task won't have to keep track of who wants what.

The auto guys don't have to go into the MT section, and vice versa for the MT guys. You aren't going to save that much anyways. You are talking about less than $50 for the whole thing.

Julian, I'm in for a couple bucks! We are talking about the 2002 Impreza manuals, right? All models, not just WRX?

"manual labor" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :alien:

sgalper has actually taken on the front end of this operation (if, indeed, it progresses), I'm just planning on doing the grunt work.

It would be the entire manual set for the 2002 MY. I'm only going to organize one CD-ROM!:)

Most likely what I see happening is that sgalper provides the hard copy to me, I do the work, burn the CDs, then ship those back to sgalper for him to distribute to those who pay him.

JS

Sounds good, Julian.

Bimmer has mentioned that someone has posted the maintenance portion of the manual. Would someone tell me where it is posted?

ok sgalper

I'm in.. let me know when/how you need the money

Everyone,
I ordered the service manual from SubaruParts.com. The WRX manual only is $266.65 and it consists of seven volumes. The manual for all 2002 Imprezas is 330.39 and consists of eight volumes. Shipping is $24. and Handling is $0.95. I can amend my order and receive all eight volumes if that is what the partnership requires. I placed all persons that are interested on my buddy list. I will be using that for messages to members of the partnership. There are still partnership places available, but once the number necessary to keep the partnership cost to $25.00 is reached, the partnership will close.
The proceedure that will be used is that I will mail one volume to Julian at a time. When finished with that volume, he will return it to me and the next volume will be sent. I will use FedEx or an equivalent carrier. Julian states that his best estimate is that the CD will take two to three months to complete. Given the estimate of work necessary, it is my opinion that time frame is reasonable.
Anyone not in the partnership that wants to join send me a private e-mail. Your name will be added to my buddy list and you will start to receive status updates. Any questions can be directed to my personal e-mail address.
General information only will be on this thead. Notification when the partnership closes will be on the thread.

Steve Galper, MD sgalper@u.arizona.edu

Steve, you probably want the 8th manual (Manual #2 to be precise). I assumed the same thing that you did, until I got the turbo manual (#3) and realized that #2 covers many of the common engine systems and parts that the turbo-specific manual does not (e.g. cooling, lubrication, starter, alternator, etc.)

I have 7 manuals, all but the transmission manual. Didn't figure I'd ever have the guts to tear the transmission down, so I skipped it.

Here is the 2002 Impreza Maintenance Schedule (http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102163&highlight=maintenance+schedule)

Will the CD be compatible with non Mac PCs, ie IBM
standard PCs?

Julian,
Can you reply to the above post. Given the number of IBM machines vs. Macs, I would think that the Windows version is what will be produced.

Steve Galper

Originally posted by sgalper
Julian,
Can you reply to the above post. Given the number of IBM machines vs. Macs, I would think that the Windows version is what will be produced.

Steve Galper

if you'd re-read the above post, you'll see that it is readable with both OS.

-C

The CD-ROM will be authored on a PC, so it will definitely be able to be read on a PC. The confusion, I guess, comes from my mention of the Autorun capability. PCs will have Autorun capability, while Macs will not. However, it is viewable/useable on both computers. It'll just be a little bit better on a PC.

There was mention in previous WRX threads that the "WRX" set isn't as complete as they would lead you to believe. There are vital parts of information contained within the "2.5L Only" manual as well.

Julian

This sounds great, I can't wait to get my copy (well, I guess I can wait 2-3 months).

I'm getting a 2.5 TS, and I'm a Mac guy, so I REALLY need that eighth volume and Mac compatibility. It sounds like both of these issues have been resolved, anyway.

Thanks for doing this Steve and Julian!

Everyone,
There are now ten members of the partnership, including Julian. I am willing to entertain the idea of adding 3-5 additional members as the entire manual cost approx. $350. In addition there will be the cost of delivery of the volumes to Julian. I am willing to absorb some of those costs since I will retain possession of the original manuals. However a percentage of the costs will need to be absorbed by the partnership and a necessary cost of getting the work completed. My expectation at this time is total costs to be under $400. for the manuals the CDs and shipping of the volumes between Julian and me.

Cordially,
Steve Galper

Certainly very reasonable. I can't believe this project is on, almost too good to be true. Many thanks to Steve & Julian.

I hope to god you guys are not going to try to use a desktop scanner to do this. You'll go crazy first. In addition, 3500 pages won't fit on a CD rom in any appreciable resolution. Maybe 2 or 3 :).

You need to find access to high speed duplex scanners. Kinda like the super high speed duplex bell and howell scanners we have at work. If they were unbound, I could probably scan and TIF them in a day.

-jb

If there's an open slot, sign me up for a copy too.

Shaun

jimb, you know not of what you speak;) . Check it:

http://www.jetlink.net/~okayfine/su/TMP17.gif and
http://www.jetlink.net/~okayfine/su/Emission.pdf

The pages in the Subaru manual are line drawings, not pictures. So a scan as a 300dpi TIF, drop that down to 100dpi and save as a grayscale GIF bring page sizes down to 100K per page. When all is said and done, 4000+ pages can fit on a CD. "Trust me. I know what I'm doing." It's not the fastest or best way, but not everyone has access to the best equipment.

And if it DOES go over one CD, CDs are cheap. I anticipate I can fit everything on one CD, however.
;)

I am in if there is still a slot available. WRX 5MT.

Wilkey

Me too, if you can.

Can i please get in this !!
Shaggee118@hotmail.com
AIM Shaggee118

Everyone,
The partnership is closed. If anyone would like to get onto the waiting list, then please e-mail me on personal messaging and not on the thread.

Thanks,
Steve Galper

i dont care about the partnership or anything, but i'd be willing to pay for a copy of the cd.....please let me know.....

Everyone,
I have received several e-mails from interested parties requesting admission to the partnership. For many reasons, I am compelled to limit the partnership size. However, I would be happy to consult with anyone and help to establish additional partnerships. I would not expect or accept any compensation for my assistance. I can be e-mailed at sgalper@u.arizona.edu

Cordially
Steve Galper, MD, JD

wrx182, it's the partnership that makes this process somewhat legal. Everyone in the partnership is paying a portion of the full costs to gain access to the manuals among the partners.

Originally posted by Julian
wrx182, it's the partnership that makes this process somewhat legal. Everyone in the partnership is paying a portion of the full costs to gain access to the manuals among the partners.

This project is not even slightly legal. The service manuals are copyrighted material (even if they lack copyright notices), and you just can't produce copies legally. Dr. Galpin, being an attorney, should know that.

A partnership could legally buy a copy of the manuals to be physically shared, but not copied.

The notion that paying part of the cost makes it partially legal is pure nonsense. There's nothing in the copyright law that allows partnerships to make copies. If there was such a provision, why not allow the partnership to expand beyond the 10-15 members and divide the costs equally?

-Dave

sorry folks... legal complaints are coming in and I am shutting this down.