We are having a streek of cars with the fitting on the steering rack under the engine that the fitings for the power steering fluid gets loose and leaks all of it!

Since the weekend there are 5 reported cases here, including mine!

Lets get a log or a trace on the cars to see what batch it is happening to!

Leo

Im not sure if i do have this but , how can i check if i have this problem or what should i check to see if its loose?

I had this happen. Lost all PS fluid... very hard to steer without power steering.

I took it to the dealer just to get it documented, so that if and when the pump develops problems, there is a history.

Yep - hit me too. Didn't lose all fluid, but enough to make the steering wonky.

Happened to me. Lost all fluid and had it replaced under warranty so dealer is aware of it in case of future problems.

Happened to me too, at about 7500 miles on a Saturday back in August in the middle of Colorado, :(
barely made it to dealer in Golden (3 hours driving w/o power assist- got there 5 minutes before they closed shop) but they tightened it up, topped it off and it's been trouble free in that regard ever since.

I had it happen to my old car too. Akiata did too.

Pretty common problem - seems mostly in first allocation.

I posted earlier about all the lines hoses on the car not being tight. I spent 6 hours going through every hose clamp and tightening them. When I last posted someone flamed me saying they all have a torque spec and I have overtightened them.

Check your turbo inlet hose clamp and the rad clamps.

Lee.

lost all my fluid on the track. lots of smoke coming from the car. all the fluid bled out. found the loose jam nut and fitting, cleaned off the threads with contact cleaner, applied high temp loctite to threads, torqued it up and then filled the res up. so far so good.

mike shields told me this even happens to the rally cars.

duckboy

I think a few guys in the NESIC forum have posted about this happening to their WRX cars also.

Paul G.

SOA, if you are reading this, do a recall of al rexes so far on the street to have them re-touqed!

The dealer here is doing it and checking every car on the lot too!

Leo

I had it happen to me too. So did Glenn. ;)

1st allocation and appx 10,000 miles.

My dealer said they'd seen it on some Legacies too, which is odd, because they are made in different countries.

This happen to me too. Dealer fixed it then it started loosening again several days later. The dealer then moved the lines. They think they might be too close to the exhaust which is heating the lines and loosening them. That was about a week ago. So far so good.

A question for all with power steering problems - have all of your PS problems been evidenced by actual fluid? Reason being is that I'm experiencing loss of PS, too, but I haven't been able to see any fluid. I ran the car pretty hard (and hot) this weekend, which goes along with the theory that the lines run close to the exhaust ... the loss of PS seems to be at slower turns that require 1/4 or more turns of the steering wheel.

For those that have taken their cars in to be fixed - how long has it taken? Or is there a 'quick' fix for this?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm travelling this weekend and would like to do so with functioning power steering!:( I'll be calling Subaru tomorrow to see what they say. Any and all advice/insight is appreciated!

Edit: Forgot to mention - my WRX is also first allocation and I have ~10400 miles on it.

Yes, fluid loss was evidenced by smoking from the engine compartment (burns off exhaust pipes) and a sheen of fluid on the trunk... YUK!

If you think you're losing fluid, check the PS fluid reservior.

I can't see any visible fluid anywhere, and the level in the reservoir has not decreased (nor has there been any smoke from anywhere). This morning, when I first started driving and everything was still a little cold, the steering worked fine, but once I got to work and was maneuvering in the parking lot, the steering started to stick. Could it be there's a kink in the line from the reservoir to ... the actually steering mechanisms? I don't know much at all how thhe system works ... I just know that mine isn't working very well right now... :(

I just got back from the dealer. The first guy I talked to tried to convince me that a technical bulletin said my situation was 'normal'. A technician then came out, fired up the car, and tried out the steering and said 'that's not normal'. He said he's 99% sure it's the PS pump, so they're ordering me a new one that'll hopefully get installed Thursday. FYI: I haven't seen any loss of fluid, so I'm not sure if all the PS problems are in the same boat. Either way, hopefully SOA is taking note of this ...

me too. started having "weird" loss-of-centering problems with the steering at about 3500 miles. dealer blew me off until 7000 miles later when SOA actually sent a rep out to deal with me directly. guess calling their 1-800 line to complain actually worked!

ironically, while the car was in their shop, the line came loose during an evaluation drive. they called to tell me that my car had a complete power steering system failure and that they were replacing the pump, lines, and rack.

since getting the car back, everything has been 100%.

for the record, the car was one of the first shipped over - took delivery in early march. thank goodness it didn't come off at watkins glen last month!

Yup, it happened to rkkwan after we came back form the track. He had about 7500 miles.

Without going into too much detail (that would be too upsetting) ... I took my car in yesterday morning. The service guy told me it would be done by noon. I told him that I would come back at the end of the day because I have to work (an hour from the dealer) and don't have time then. I go about my day ... thinking it'll all be over soon. I call them late in the day and they say it's not done yet. O-K ... They tell me they're going to have to get me a rental. :mad: I go out to the dealer, and they tell me they got the wrong part! (And that they didn't do a single thing, but yet neglected to tell me any of this during the day.) I'm now the proud driver of a freakin' Ford Focus. I can't believe how bad it is. I'm just really upset at this dealer for their lack of quality service and well, I'm wondering what kind of recourse there is here. They've made so many empty promises, and it's starting to get frustrating. (I can't count how many times the service guy told me he'd call me, and not once has he.) Do I go to their management or to SOA directly? Or both? I'm not looking for any compensation, I just want them to know they're not doing a very good job taking care of their customers. Any help? :confused:

Add my June allocation wagon with 7,500 miles to the list of loose hose fittings.

I called SOA with the info from i-Club and the rep told me that there are no Technical Service Bullitens about this issue.

Took 2 days at the dealer, one getting into line with all the other Monday cars and another one to make sure the PS was quiet after sitting over night.

Nice that they fix it under warrenty and provide a rental car, but dealers should be checking the hoses on all WRXs as they come in for other stuff.

4 days, 2 weekend days and 2 work days ain't fun. Driving the red Tracker was fun for about 3 minutes.:-}

While I haven't had many problems with my car, I can't help but be concerned with future quality issues since subaru isn't exactly a "mass" producer of cars like Honda or Toyota is.

Even the initial brochures subaru sent me, when I was still contemplating the purchase of the subaru, stated that subaru was a niche market manufacturer. I concluded that they are not accustomed to producing large numbers with minimal lead times and if forced to produce larger numbers, their quality would likely deteriorate.

So, other than the clutch, how many other problems are there that are known publicly?

Originally posted by Shaggee
Im not sure if i do have this but , how can i check if i have this problem or what should i check to see if its loose?

I second this. How can this be checked? Where are the lines etc.? Is this an issue with cars delivered early in 2001 only, or are there cases of later produced cars? Is there any note of SOA dealing with this issues in later production cars?

Mark

Get the car up on ramps. You may need to remove the small jacking plate (4 bolts, 2 nuts).

Just use a short 12mm wrench. There are four lines with nuts exposed. I've posted a pick before.

BE VERY GENTLE. Don't overtighten.

My first car had a line fall off, I know 3 or 4 people locally affected.

On my new car and TT_TTF's car we both had loose fittings which I tightened. It isn't much, basically about 1/8 of a turn to take em up.

But given vibration, the pressure they're under, they eventually do "undo".

Glenn

Happened on my Sedan after approx 20k miles. 1st allocation. It was the fastest fix I have ever seen. I had the car trucked in, and 45 minutes later, I was on my way. They really didn't like that yellow car sitting WAY up there on that flatbed for the world to see.

Curt

I got bit by the power steering bug! lol. Today at Buttonwillow coming hot into turn 1 at the end of the front straight I was braking and then turned in...uh oh.....I see smoke billowing out the back end...I thought I blew the motor until I kept turning and realized that it had become extremely stiff... whew! I pulled in and jacked the car up and sure enough one of the jam nuts was so loose I could spin it around with one finger. Luckily I tightened it up and wrapped teflon tape against it so it couldn't back out again, then had a friend drive me to get more fluid to replace. No problems the rest of the day with that, but I'm taking it in next week to get a full inspection and fix.

ps: during this run my passenger had commented that his coworker who has a wrx wagon had this happen to him on the street just recently. I laughed and said I knew that people had been experiencing this problem, but personally had not yet checked on it. One lap later murphy's law took affect... :P

It happened to my WRX too.

Hey, I have a sedan!

doh! sorry i forgot...that's what frye said. what's new with your car? did you get the lines fixed/tightened at the dealer?

i just went to an independant right by Honda and they tightened it up. I didn't know what was wrong but my steering just started going away when I was getting lunch. (on a brighter note, my unichip and exhaust should be here next week)

Can someone post a pic of what to look for under the car?

So, other than the clutch, how many other problems are there that are known publicly?

Check the problem poll thread in this forum. Common problems include clutch/tranny (17%). Potentially serious problems include ABS malfunction (3%). Also noted in "Lemon-Aid, New Cars 2001" publication.

JD Powers 2001 Initial Quality Survey ranks the Impreza at 185 if 195 models, with about 200 defects per 100 cars. This polls 50,000+ owners as problems encountered in the first 3 months.

Consumer Reports puts them on the recommended list, so if you can get your dealer to fix your initial defects, it seems a good car for long term durability.

Originally posted by codger


......with about 200 defects per 100 cars. ....
:lol: :lol: :lol: That's gotta suck!!



heheheee- I'm sure it was a mis-type, but it read in a very amusing way. :)

my power steering went out as well but the diagnosis was faulty pump, party wasnt available so they had to special order said would take few days but ended up taking few weeks because part was on " national back order"

shane and fernando hernandez`

jamz,

200 defects per 100 cars mean 2 defects per car on average. Keep in mind some cars will have no defects at all, some will have a dozen. :p

Here is some experience I have gained from working in the OEM automotive industry, on steering systems.

It was recommended never to run the pump when dry. Whether you were preparing a pump or car for test, or testing the engine which just happened to have a pump attached. I don't know if the pump on our WRXs uses a bushing or bearing for driveshaft support, but neither likes to spin without oil. For those that fixed their cars at home after the fluid had leaked out, you might want to call this out to your dealer so that if you have pump problems in the future he might be inclined to help you out. For the owner who drove 3 hours in colorado without power assist, did the dealer replace the pump? Should have.

If you have loss of assist when the engine and pump are hot, I think you have lost some "compression" in your pump. They do not use pistons but the analogy is a good one. I believe the pump is a vane style pump. The pump rotor spins and in the process intakes fluid into a volume bounded by two vanes, the rotor, the ring, and the pressure and thrust plates which sandwhich the rotor, ring, and vanes. The rotor and vanes spin between the plates. The clearance between the rotating parts and the plates is very small which limits pressure losses once the fluid is compressed. As the fluid heats up it becomes thinner, so more susceptible to leaking through these clearances and not providing assist. As you steer the car, more pressure is required to provide assist as you turn further into the corner. Your steering lifts the car due to kingpin angle, more turn - more lift required. Your car may have enough pressure to handle assist near center, but not near the corner.

If you run the pump without oil, it will heat up. The metal parts will expand. This may cause the rotating parts to contact the stationary parts, scoring them. This will limit the pump's ability to provide pressure the next time, because you have created leak paths.

Lastly, it appears that the fittings on or near the gear do need to be checked and maybe tightened. They likely use o-ring fittings, so don't reef on them as you will crush them and they will leak. They *should not* loosen over time, even with vibration. All the big 3, and likely the major import makers too, test cars to 100k miles and beyond. During this time you aren't allowed to retorque bolts or fittings so they pass test. Now maybe they do loosen on * this car*, but that would indicate some bad test planning and results gathering on Subaru's part.

Good info from all, thanks.

Originally posted by markyrob
For the owner who drove 3 hours in colorado without power assist, did the dealer replace the pump? Should have.Don't think you were talking about me, but I drove for about 3 hours after losing all fluid. I took it into the dealer (so I could get it documented), they refilled the system and verified that the pump wasn't making any noises, but they wouldn't replace the pump at that time... The main thing is I have it on record now in case the pump goes bad in the future.

Does this loss of PS fluid cause any long-term damage to the steering system?

Austin, I was talking about you. If you were driving highway, the rpms were fairly low which is good. And, if you lose all the fluid except a residual amount in the pump bearing or bushing, the pump won't be making any pressure which is good in one way. Without pressure the pump's plates aren't forced together as hard, so any scoring may be less. Its probably worse than it is good, because if the pump is a bushing pump (vs bearing), the bushing will have minimal hydrodynamic support without some pressure in the pump, and the driveshaft will probably wear the bushing prematurely, because the belt load is pulling on the shaft loading up the bushing. If its a ball or roller bearing pump you aren't relying on this hydrodynamic support in the same way. I don't know what effect it may have on the bearings.

I think any long term damage would be confined to the pump. The steering gear can steer just fine without any fluid in it, tho your arms will get tired. I suppose if you drove with no fluid in the gear for a long time you could cause some wear in the rack tube area due to a dry piston. The lines will have an easier time of it if there is no pressurized hot hydraulic fluid in them, so they will be ok.

I would be concerned about the pump if run without fluid for anything over a couple of minutes. After all, its a Subaru warranty problem that led to the no-fluid condition, not an oversight of the owner. The higher the rpms the quicker the pump will heat up due to internal friction so the potential for scoring is greater.

Any Subie experts know if the pump uses bearings or a bushing to support the shaft?

Mark

Actually- you were talking about me- in reference to 3 hours across Colorado anyway, and yes I tried to keep the revs down as low as I reasonably could.

I was a little worried about the pump at the time, (they were closing their shop so I had no chance of getting any service beyond tightening and topping off) but it has been trouble free for over 25,000 miles since then.

Both the dealer I bought it from and the one that does most of my regular service have been made aware of the incident and neither has suggested the need for pump replacement- especially since it seems to be working fine.

I figure the pump will probably just give up the ghost the day after the warranty lapses

Originally posted by psoper
I figure the pump will probably just give up the ghost the day after the warranty lapses Mine probably will too!

Just went out to the garage to go for the morning drive and when i turn the steering the pump makes all kinds of loud noises and left a trace of fluid on the ground.. Im gonna go try and see if i can tighten her up so i can drive this weekend..

Car has 9500 miles.

Clutch slipping already also. Throw out bearing making noise too when engagement in nuetral like in a garage or something quiet..

Just went outside and when your looking under the car where the line comes down from the resevior i take it there is a little 14mm inline nut thingy.. Hard to explain but once ya get under there just follow the line going up and you'll see it. tighten her up as i did. took 2 minutes and now all i need is to get some dextron auto tranny fluid as they reccomend.

All fixed :D

Put me on the list. I was on the track and got black-flagged because of all the smoke. Before I could reach the paddock, all the fluid was on the track and the power steering was gone. The dealer fixed it, but they didn't let on for a second that they had ever seen the problem. Huh.

G

OK, ok

After reading all of these posts, what have we determined/learned, if anything?

Was there just a bad batch or is this really happening to everyone? AND if it has not happened to YOU yet, don't worry because it will?

Thanks

Hmm, happened to me this morning. I drove home from work last night in a lot of snow, having a little bit of fun on the road. Nothing serious, but just some small, slow drifting (<15 MPH) around corners.

This morning, I wake up to find PS fluid all over the ground. I'm taking it into the dealer to see what the deal is.

Edit: car has 16.5K miles, first allotment, built March '01.

OK, brought it to a non-mod-freindly dealer this am. They said that it was related to the underdrive pulley somehow but were not going to look at it further due to the engine being "half-aftermarket". Is anyone else running an UD pulley? Mine is a vishnu, so it's not too underdriven. Only other engine mods are ITG filter and an SBC-id EBC.

Originally posted by gertman
everyone, please ignore that last post. It has NOTHING to do with power steering.

Thank You I only read the first few lines anyway... just enough to let me know it was another silly internet rant.

Your a smart man Austin,

Thank You

So again, is anyone else with this problem running any kind of aftermarket pulley?

Last week, my 1986 Toyota Corolla power steering rack developed an unrepairable leak. Since, I have been driving it without power steering. It is really good for upper body muscle development and fitness.

Ok, I did my first oil change two weeks ago and noticed the power steering hard lines were leaking. Didn't surprise me 'cause I had read this post before even buying the car.

BTW, this is the break in period oil change. Car had 1300 miles and reservoir was below minimum level by two inches.

Took it to the dealer this morning thinking they would just tighten it up. I simply could not get a wrench on the things 'cause the passenger side half shaft was in the way.

Dealer says the rack itself is leaking ( not what I saw) and that a new one has been ordred and expected in in 4 days.

I bought the car in May, so it's definitely not just a first batch problem.


Gonzalo.

Found the thread on power steering lines leaking...

Mine finally leaked...already posted in the service forum.

Maybe my question on alternate ps fluid should be posted there instead of here....off I go!

Ted

My 2nd WRX (10/02 delivery) developed a slow leak two weeks ago (I tightened up the fitting but the o-ring was damaged so had to take to dealer).

So, I'm 2/2 on leaky WRX PS!

I had snugged up the pipes under the engine x-member, but this was in the coupling up to the pump/res.

Glenn

I too had this problem about a month ago, lines came loose took it in and had them fix it. happened at about 13k

I shall see in 2 days (that's when i can stop by a dealer with the car), but so far i have no power anywhere under 2000rpm and i know that means trouble

i haven't checked the lines yet, but will do so 1st thing in the daylight


Bart

I had the power steering fail tiday. Looks like the same problem. Loose fittings. I haven't crawled under the car yet, but there was a lot of smoke and after I sat for about 5 minutes, you could see it dripping out. Time to go see if I can fix it.

Glenn Wallace posted this:

Get the car up on ramps. You may need to remove the small jacking plate (4 bolts, 2 nuts).

Just use a short 12mm wrench. There are four lines with nuts exposed. I've posted a pick before.

BE VERY GENTLE. Don't overtighten.


I don't see 4 bolts and 2 nuts. The leak seams to be coming from one of the lines that has a 17mm banjo style nut. This is up on the right side of the car, next to the tranny, and below the Down-pipe where the PS hard line connects to the softer rubber hose leading into the steering rack. The other line right next to it is a 14mm banjo style nut. I assume these are the supply and return lines from the PS pump?

Sure enough it was so loose I could turn it with my fingers. Tightened it down, along with the 14mm nut, and replaced the PS fluid, but I still seem to have a small leak. Is there some sort of gasket I need to replace here? Where are the 4 bolts and 2 nuts that Glenn's talking about?

Thanks,

Tim

I had some fitting come loose on the power steering pressure line too. The jack plate was covered in fluid along with the passenger side control arm. It looks pretty tough to get to. I can see the leaky fitting from a half-dollar sized hole on the passenger side next to the jack plate. I caught the leak before my PS went out and I topped off the tank with some Cheap ATF dextron III. I dont think that taking off the Jack plate will make it easier to get to theis fitting, but I'll check it out tomarrow again.

Lost all my fluid from the rubber hose connection to the hard line just past the intake tonight, lots of smoke and fluid on the passenger side of the engine bay, will top up and take it to the dealer on Monday.
Floyd

My power steering failed yesterday. Lots of smoke. Scary. Anyway, drove it to the dealership and they tightened the lines, flushed the system and refilled it. They then charged me $114. I have 36.5k on the car (03 WRX wagon). With the # of posts here there should be a TSB out for this issue.....

Just happened to me, too, at 52K miles. Fortunately it happened in a parking lot full of people with jacks and tools! :) One person even knew about this problem, so he told me I probably had a loose PSF line nut. I was able to tighten the high-pressure hose nut, full it up, and limp it home.

It's still leaking fluid, though, so I guess I'll get it up on ramps and try to clean it up and tighten it better. If that doesn't work, is there a more permanent fix? I'm not willing to keep tightening that stupid bolt every 3 weeks.

Turned out both of mine had it - wagon had loose lines as well

My problem now is the bushes on the rack itself - rack has 2mm wide clean patches on each side where the rack is shifting


Get the car up on ramps. You may need to remove the small jacking plate (4 bolts, 2 nuts).

Just use a short 12mm wrench. There are four lines with nuts exposed. I've posted a pick before.

BE VERY GENTLE. Don't overtighten.

My first car had a line fall off, I know 3 or 4 people locally affected.

On my new car and TT_TTF's car we both had loose fittings which I tightened. It isn't much, basically about 1/8 of a turn to take em up.

But given vibration, the pressure they're under, they eventually do "undo".

Glenn

Just happened to me, too, at 52K miles. Fortunately it happened in a parking lot full of people with jacks and tools! :) One person even knew about this problem, so he told me I probably had a loose PSF line nut. I was able to tighten the high-pressure hose nut, full it up, and limp it home.

It's still leaking fluid, though, so I guess I'll get it up on ramps and try to clean it up and tighten it better. If that doesn't work, is there a more permanent fix? I'm not willing to keep tightening that stupid bolt every 3 weeks.

No, generally once it is tightened you should be ok. The issue you have is probably that the O-ring is damaged. You'll need to get the O-ring replaced.

Glenn

Yes, I simply tighted mine (high pressure line) It did work for a day, Then it failed miserably. Im talking fluid literally pouring on to the ground once the motor started. Intense smokeing since all the fluid just leaked on to the downpipe (probably dangerous). I had no choice other than let the pump run dry. I took it to the dealer and this was covered on my warranty. Indeed...the o-ring was fouled.

Yep. Leaks at the hard line to rubber hose connection on my '04 STi... Taking it to dealer tomorrow.

Adam

Anybody have a picture of what I need to look for?

It's in the vicinity of the front right axle... To the left of the downpipe... IIRC.


I'll snap a few pics tommorrow for you.

Im a pot head so send me a PM to remind me,
Adam

It's been months, but the lines have held and my PS Fluid levels are steady. I guess tightening it does the trick as long as you are careful and don't damage anything when you tighten it back up.

Good luck, everyone!

my cars in the shop right now cause my powersteering pump broke and my resovior(however you spell it)

Yes, I simply tighted mine (high pressure line) It did work for a day, Then it failed miserably. Im talking fluid literally pouring on to the ground once the motor started. Intense smokeing since all the fluid just leaked on to the downpipe (probably dangerous). I had no choice other than let the pump run dry. I took it to the dealer and this was covered on my warranty. Indeed...the o-ring was fouled.

Dangerous - yes!!

That's basically what happened to Subie Gal. Lines let loose and started an engine bay fire - still having electrical issues as a result

Hey, reviving an old thread, did anybody ever find a new fitting or did you guys just try to tighten?

I made a very costly mistake when I overtightened the fitting and it stripped the hole...

Any help will be greatly appreciated

I just tightened the fitting, didn't change any parts. It's still holding, 5 years, 80,000 miles, 3 autocross championships, and 20 track days later.

Agreed.

Dealer took care of it at that time and it was fine.