Not that I am actively consideirng this option, but I owuld like to know what the comunity has heard about it, since I just heard about it and it peaked my intrest a little.

The Break Down: If you dont know what I am talking about...

Standalone or Piggy Back ECU.
Build it your self or have it shipped pre built, (200-310 USD)
Featured this month in Import Tuner Magazine.

Features.

12x12 fuel tables
12x12 Spark Tables
DualTable Code
Roger Enns' Injector stageing code
Rev limited
Overboost protection
Mappable A/F ration target for those with Wideband
Coolant temp timing retard
Inlet Air Timing retard
MAPdot accel/decel enrichment
Anti-Rev/traction control feature
Over-run fuel cut
After Start enrichments
Cranking/Primary Settings
Hybrid Alpha-N
Air Density Correction
RPM based Accel enrichment

Ignition Control Options
No Ignition (Fuel Only)
Distributer for even-fire 2 stroke 1-4 cylinders and 4 stroke 1-16 cylinders
Ford EDIS
GM 7 pin HEI
Toothed wheel decoder
Dual wheel decoder/2nd trigger
GM DIS
Buick C31
Oddfire wheel decoder ALPHA TEST

Boost Control
Water injection control
Dual EGO sensor support
Shift Lights
Launch Control/Flat shift
Realtime Barometric Correction

in/outputs

Outputs 1,2,3, and 4
Knock Sensor input
PWM idle for use with variable valves TEST
Nitrous Control (Min rpm, new timing map or fixed retard)
EGT logging
Tacho Output Pin
Mass Air Flow Meter use with a MAF for fueling Calculations
Debug Option
Tooth and Trigger logger.

I am quite limited in my knowledge of standalone, but was thinking if I were to go this direction (Standalone) would this be a good option? I dont even know yet what they have for subaru as of yet but you down load all the software/firmware, from the website etc. Besides how cool would it be to build your very own ECU?

I've used it on a non Subaru project. Drove me nuts. It works well but there are a million different versions of the firmware and tuning software. Standlone takes a while to get the startup and spark settings...there are a LOT that you probably haven't even heard of. Putting in the wrong settings also breaks stuff easily. Gotta know what you are doin or have lots of $ for spare parts :D

Knock control isn't very good yet, no filtering is built into the box. You gotta get a system that will do its own filtering and send a signal to the box. Alpha-N fueling sucks but there should be other load variables available.

Here's a question...

Would you want to run something on your car that sounds like a sex toy? :lol:

Cool I am just trying to see hwat people think, I would consider it based on the fact that I get to learn how to build an ECU I might not even use it just sell it on ebay after or something..... but thought it was an interesting atricle none the less... keep em coming (Coments that is)

A lot of support here Megasquirt (http://msefi.com/)

I did some research on it my self and came up with:


1. stock water temp. (2 wire) there is a 1 wire sensor just for the stock gauge you need the 2 wire sensor
2. stock crank sensor with modified crank pully. (36-1)
3. i used the GM intake air temp sensor (open element) listed in MS sensors.
4. i used the stock relay and power supply for the injectors-- MS just grounds them to fire them off.
5. i used the ford edis-4 and it works perfectly

i got the car running easily on the basic program and had ran a couple of Mega Tune sessions before giving the car to a friend. he is a rally mechanic and is building it into a rally car

My buddy ran MS on his MX-6 and he loved it. He said he never had any probs with it.


Thats what I found out about getting it to work on a Subaru.

Thanks Guys

... keep em coming (Coments that is)

:lol: You freaking kill me! :lol:

Good standalone for the $$$. My bro. has one installed on his 75 Datsun Z. He's shooting for 550whp or over with his newly aquired 35R on the L series motor.

-Jon

:lol: Don't forget the stimulator :lol:
http://www.megamanual.com/system.gif

No drive by wire--good by STI and new WRXs.
No sequential fuel injection, unless you have two cylinders.
No coil on plug control--distributor based timing.

No camshaft signal.

There is lots of other stuff that is not so great. It would be fine for a simple fuel inected NA car, but put a turbo on and you need more precision than Megasquirt offers.

Want a stand alone, buy an Element Hydra and you'll never look back. Want to tune the stock ECU? I don't have an informed enough opinion on ST, EcuTek, or UTEC. UTEC is pretty tough to tune in the "in between" sites, between low load and high load.

bboy, I think you missed the point about the project being open source. Everything you mentioned is possible if you're willing to do some work yourself, and everything you mentioned is under development.
Look into the router board or even the microsquirt(not mega, but micro) form factor system.
However, I will admit that as of right now, I haven't seen any of it working, but looking over the code and the hardware, there's no reason it couldn't, except time.
You can look at it another, way, the hardware on the MS is, in many ways, more powerful than the 2.0L WRX ECU's. The Subaru's 2.5L ECU's, on the other hand are quite advanced, so getting something to that level would take some doing. Either way, tho, moving away from the Subaru ECU's will be throwing away years and years of development that gives a good combination of safety, economy, and power.

^^^bboy

No drive by wire - since the MS can control an IAC, it should be able to control an electronic throttle plate, but you might be stuck developing code for the controller, but here is a great knowledge base at MSEFI.COM (http://msefi.com)

No sequential fuel injection - true that MS does not have SFI, but if you can forfeit a "possible" 2% increase in part throttle mileage, then you are good to go.

No coil on plug control--distributor based timing - http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/images/smilies/bs.gif There is MS-EDIS which uses the Ford EDIS system for ignition and the MS controls the timing. And if you have COP, one just fires the COP like a waste-spark setup.

No camshaft signal - true, but since injection is batch fire and a waste-spark system is used on subie engines, there is no need to know the position of the camshaft.

There are plenty of forced induction success stories - Sucess stories (http://msefi.com/viewforum.php?f=63&sid=1e0e593cf35da3c51fa66859c9d5a337)

Now with MS one losses the functionality of the stock ECU, so emission control will be forfeited.

The downside to MS is one has to install and fab up sensors to make it work. But for $200, you get a fuel injection controller and a lot of on-line support from a knowledgeable forum.

Now with MS one losses the functionality of the stock ECU, so emission control will be forfeited.

Bzzt. You can keep the stock ECU in place.

Bzzt. You can keep the stock ECU in place.

Yeah, but I find it very silly to be running two ECUs in a car.

You said you lose the functionality, thats not true. Now if you find it silly, why? Use the MS for as little as possible to keep the complexity down. Let the stock ECU control things like fans ect. Also you then don't lose OBD and other functions.

You said you lose the functionality, thats not true. Now if you find it silly, why? Use the MS for as little as possible to keep the complexity down. Let the stock ECU control things like fans ect. Also you then don't lose OBD and other functions.

A stock ECU program has been beat on by MANY engineers over countless hours so that engine responds to the ECU like an orchestra responds to the maestro.

When you take out the functionality of the ECU, IMHO nothing good can come of it. The ECU is looking for a response when a command is given. If there is something else controlling the engine then it is a sure bet that the ECU will not get the correct feedback and perform poorly.

The only way two independent controllers can work harmonious together is if they were designed from scratch that way.

As of the last 2 weeks there is a code that was developed to use the 6/7 wheel setup. Now you 36-2-2-2 wheel people have to change to the older kind or wait til it is decoded. There are many people running EJ engines with EDIS and have no problems. There are some making 300-400 whp. Some are making 1000whp and have won expensive EMSs and sold them because they like the MS better.

There is a GPIO board in the works too. General Perpose Input Output board.
It will have 4 vr inputs, 4 egt inputs, 4 general purpose outputs, 4 pwm outputs, 4+ high current circuits. This is just the start it will be able to do much more as time goes on.

For most people that dont mind alittle work its works great and works like a OBD1 car when tuned right.

There are some people on here that have and still do use it in there DD and can help you with any questions if you really want to try it. Here is a good read too. http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mtabcon.htm

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=16963&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 You have to register to view.

wow thanks for all the information you guys rock, it is good to get some useful info, i still dont know if this is something i may use or not but i deffinately know more about it now.....

Kris

There is an article on it in this month's Import Tuner as well. I have a copy Kris if you want to read it. JC

SPOBI!

While megasquirt isn't necessarily the best solution out of all availible, it is by far the best for the money. At least for people with the technical aptitude to work with it. So its not for everybody, but most automotive enthusiasts have the ability to get it up and running with a little time, patience and dedication to learning.

bboy:
You either need to read more about Megasquirt or stop spreading incorrect information.

While megasquirt doesn't support drive by wire directly (yet), adding a throttle cable is not really that difficult and its only a short matter of time before somebody develops a DBW interface. As this becomes more and more common you can expect support.

Megasquirt does support both COP ignition and dual trigger crank/cam systems. Right now in code. Not all wheel pattern combinations have been decoded, but its coming. Besides, changing/modifying trigger wheels is not out of the scope of most people that are going to stand alone engine mangagement.

Sequential injection would not be a hard thing to implement but research has shown there is virtually zero performance difference between a batch fire and fully timed sequential system. Imagine this. At 6000rpm you have at roughly 50 injection events per second. Add that unless your injectors are really oversized 70-80% duty cycle is not uncommon so your injector is open basically 80% of the time. Think about how fast 50 squirts a second is at say 15ms pulse width and it becomes clear that its basically just a continuous fog of fuel coming out. Why would sequential injection really make any difference?

The benefit is largely related to emissions at low RPM and pulse widths where the injection timing may effect event-to-event A/F ratios enough to have negative impact on emissions. For the average person looking for high horsepower and standalone engine management I don't think emissions are their first concern...

I think it would make a good PWM WI injection controller.

But I wouldn't choose the MS over another even cheaper and more powerful alternative, Openecu, if available for your car.

I think it would make a good PWM WI injection controller.

But I wouldn't choose the MS over another even cheaper and more powerful alternative, Openecu, if available for your car.

Here's a question I have concerning that. I don't have a compatible car so I haven't spent much time on the subject but I would assume you're still limited to a rather low number of flashes before the hardware cashes out? Or has that been worked around somehow?

Here's a question I have concerning that. I don't have a compatible car so I haven't spent much time on the subject but I would assume you're still limited to a rather low number of flashes before the hardware cashes out? Or has that been worked around somehow?

There are a few cars have well over 100 flashes on them, some with over 500 so I don't think its a "real" issue.

When you take out the functionality of the ECU, IMHO nothing good can come of it. The ECU is looking for a response when a command is given. If there is something else controlling the engine then it is a sure bet that the ECU will not get the correct feedback and perform poorly.

The only way two independent controllers can work harmonious together is if they were designed from scratch that way.

:lol: :lol: Tell that to countless UTEC users, people who replace the boost control system, running aftermarket ignitions or the countless people on other platforms who leave the stock ECU in. Also you think the Perfect Power SMT-6 will cause "nothing good"? Two independent controllers can work in harmony and there is lots out there to prove that. I've used a MS in a standalone and in a half-functionality configuration as well as used piggyback systems for years, trust me it does work if its setup properly.

can you pass obd2 inspection with something else controlling fuel and ignition?

can you pass obd2 inspection with something else controlling fuel and ignition?

Yes and it doesn't involve any trickery.

alot of people are skeptical because of price, but it is an open forum type software/hardware that will grow as time goes on. i have been watching megasquirt popularity grow through the years and i am going to be purchasing two units within the next month. I come from the turbo mustang world, people have had great sucess on their cars over there, so having a turbo is NOT an issue. Im glad the subaru world is finally getting some code to use the megasquirt, ive been waiting for this.
jay

74 porsche 911 ej20 turbo project

Yeah, Turbos are NOT a problem for Megasquirt at all. I've built/tuned three cars now with Turbos on megasquirt. Two DSMs and one Audi. One of the DSMs is on a GT35 at about 20psi. The Audi is on a Holset HX-35 (for which I built the 5-cylinder twin scroll header for) running about the same. Both of them are rockets with great success on megasquirt.

I have some great tricks up my sleve for my implementation of Megasquirt on my car. Everybody better watch out ;)