how well will this combo work? im asking because i called cosworth and ken told me there 2.5 with there special 79mm crank can hold high rpms.

cosworth 2.5 and crank
cosworth heads
cosworth cams
hidra ems
ur gt40r
and eliminate the mas
aps dr725 fm
aps race fuel system
2 sets of 565 for the race system

what is the potintial and spool? what would be the useable rpmband?

don't tell me i should use a 35r because i dont consider lag to be how long it takes to start spooling. if i shift and its right back in power then it doesn't lag.

Can the 725 FMIC support that much flow efficienty? I'm not sure if it can so you may need someone to build you a custom FMIC, but I could be wrong.

The DR725 is the biggest fmic you'll ever need. I used to have it and it's retarded big. I don't think you could max it out.

The DR725 is the biggest fmic you'll ever need. I used to have it and it's retarded big. I don't think you could max it out.

With a 40r and running it like a 40r should be run (33+psi)... i'm sure it could be maxxed out. Hell, add some giggle gas and it'll max out. A 1000hp core couldn't hurt if you want headroom.

how well will this combo work?
AFAIK, no one here has tried that combo yet, so you're in unknown territory. I suggest you call Cosworth and ask them to recommend a good high-end tuner (hopefully in your locale) that is familiar with working with those components and then see whether or not he wants to tune that system. Not all 'em out there will want to, and fewer still will have the knowledge.

But, I do have a question. What does this mean: "2 sets of 565 for the race system?"

He's going to be running dual injectors instead of single 1000's. I think. Sounds like a pretty badass custom setup, I'm looking forward to seeing pics of the build.

A slight OT question... Did the guys from Cosworth by any chance tell you what that particular engine setup is good for powerwise?

With a 40r and running it like a 40r should be run (33+psi)... i'm sure it could be maxxed out. Hell, add some giggle gas and it'll max out. A 1000hp core couldn't hurt if you want headroom.


i would love to see someone max it out . i have it and i know of people making monster power and they use it ,and they have not come close to maxing it out. the boys in pr are using it on the 750 whp stis and have not maxed it out. this car will make around 490-500 whp maybe a little bit more.he will be fine. i have a freind that was going to do the 4 injector deal ,and tunning is going to be a major pain in the a55 good luck ,and keep us posted

hidra ems


Is that the EBay knock off of the Hydra EMS??

i would love to see someone max it out . i have it and i know of people making monster power and they use it ,and they have not come close to maxing it out. the boys in pr are using it on the 750 whp stis and have not maxed it out. this car will make around 490-500 whp maybe a little bit more.he will be fine. i have a freind that was going to do the 4 injector deal ,and tunning is going to be a major pain in the a55 good luck ,and keep us posted


If he's only making 490 - 500whp with a 40R and a combined injector flow of over 1000cc, then he has some problems.

If he's only making 490 - 500whp with a 40R and a combined injector flow of over 1000cc, then he has some problems.

i have never really seen the 8 injector setup be very efficient,and i will not be a an of it till it is proven. i hope he does more ,but i think he will be sitting in that area. when he makes more you can say i told ya so. i hope it is not tuned on a dynojet becuase he will see inflated #'s:) so don't get all defensive;)

I think one of the keys is to get your motor to rev higher. It's pretty generic to say you will have a built motor/heads. Be sure it's built to rev, because you may not be able to see the difference between a 40R and a 35R with the stock redline.

The new APS twin-scroll rotated setup basically is a GT40R with a twin-inlet, so I'm pretty sure the 725 fmic will work fine.

I remember talking to Phil when he had a 75lb prototype model of the Element GT65 (basically a prototype Element GT75) and he said he needed a bigger power range, and that the bigger turbo actually made him slower because it spooled later and couldn't get more power. I think the housing was also too small for that size compressor, which I believe was a .78.

I'm thinking the reason why APS designed their 70lb rotated setup to be twin-scroll is to get faster spool from a larger turbo so it's more useable. It's hard to tell how much the twin-scroll helps because the piping for twin-scroll headers is longer.

hey bryan

i'm going to be useing a similar set up but with a little more stuff;)

will be useing 8 injectors but with autronic ecu:D
also a kingpin gt40r

should be done next week.

i'll let you know what power i make

should be way over 600whp:D


maybe some spray;)

...It's hard to tell how much the twin-scroll helps because the piping for twin-scroll headers is longer.
I hadn't noticed the longer piping before - good observation.

yea cosworth ken said that the engine will take what ever i throw at it. i don't really care about dyno numbers because they are really inconsistant. and the engine should be good to 9000+. the twin injectors are for the street 1200cc will idal like a55. and this is a street car not a race car. we'll not really a street car more like a street race car ha ha. well i have a local fish i would like to fry and its not a subie.
does anyone know where i can grt a wrc box intake i want to go reverse thrttle body but i don't know if the stock will flow enough.

Are you considering throwing some spray in the mix? That'll go REALLY well with the 40r.

maybe i do have a few NX kits laying around but if i do it won't be much 75 100 somthing like that.

well i have a local fish i would like to fry and its not a subie.

Sounds like someone's shooting for either a certain MR2 or a certain Mustang I know of around here ;)

Dude that setup would rock but hell if it won't cost a pretty penny.

coolrex u remember me telling u i was going for broke now u see why, but no its not a mustang or mr2 its a 383 firebird with a 250 shot. he is local to me hes talking $h1t and its pissing me off he needs to be taught a lesson and i need a excuse

you will need a fat wallet .. I sure you have a payment and what you're gonna do is going to cost well over 25k . Good luck with your build.

Buy a C6 Z06 and spray and call it a day.

Exactly. Buying all that crap for that much is waaaay to much. Let him talk crap and just ignore it. Plus the streetability of a daily driver will flat out suck.

well i like the subie and would not stup to his level. and it is about time to take my car off the daily drivers list its paid off now

Well if you are thinking of getting a daily grind and can do the swap then I say to stop talking and GO DO IT!

thats alot of $$$ to be proving a point with. maybe compinsating for ........

I have tuned setups very close to this one. I think you are taking a nice setup and down grading it with the APS parts.

Get the UR FMIC with the 40R kit.
choose the .85 AR turbine housing
Run 1200cc fuel injectors. If you must run 8 then use two sets of 750's.
choose a very high rpm camshaft.

Fuel system:
2l surge tank in trunk using stock pump to fill
High flow external pump and regulator

Expect full boost about 4500-5000 rpm.
Turbo needs to run 30-40 psi.

Estimation on power:
500whp on pump 93
700whp on C16

The most important part of all of this is hiring the right man to tune the Hydra.

Clark

yea cosworth ken said that the engine will take what ever i throw at it. i don't really care about dyno numbers because they are really inconsistant. and the engine should be good to 9000+.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but more curious since i was under the impression that an engine that could take anything one throws at it would be armed with iron sleeves, which the cosworth engine is not.

I wonder if anyone can chime in on this.

I'm sorry if I am derailing this thread..:o

The appropriate statement is that it'll take anything you can throw at it within reason. I don't care WHO builds it or WHAT it is made of.....anything can be broken.

I don't care WHO builds it or WHAT it is made of.....anything can be broken.
Heh, all you have to do is turn on any race on tv to see proof of that statement.

Heh, all you have to do is turn on any race on tv to see proof of that statement.

aye tru.... but it makes me wonder though what the point of putting in iron sleeves are then... Is there something Cosworth knows about the stock liners that others who sell sleeved setups don't?:confused:

too true coolrex within reason and clark i will take your advise

"We better sleeve this Subaru motor, The hondas we normaly build wont take 20 psi withouth cracking"

"But the Subaru liners are supported in the STI and dont seem to fail."

"Those stock liners are thin, We are sleeving it."

"If you say so..."

Clark

what do u mean buy that clark

I think he means that Cosworth might be unnecessarily sleeving the motors when the stock Subaru liners have rarely failed even under high boost applications.

Yeah. It was a joke. I dont see the liners fail that much. I think if the engine is tuned right its ok. But add in Road racing and high boost and I believe it might be needed. Its all about duty cycle.

Clark

34 PSI on my 2.5l and slight damage to the sleeve. 15thous took care of it.

Bent 2 stock suby rods (one went 2 directions no break) bent the crank.

no spun bearings, no blown headgaskets, no valve damage nothing else.

This was no surprise to Clark. Consider Clark's word about suby motors accurate.

Yeah.. I remember that. Tuning accident by unamed person on the dyno! Detonation can bend a stock sleeve.. So can super boost with to much timing advance sending the pressure wave at the wrong time. Thats evident with the bent rods :) Timing for 20 psi with the boost of 34 does nasty things :(

Clark

doesn't help that the WG plumbing was setup for my old internal setup. The Boost controller wouldn't do it's job. Silly building / tuning mistakes do VERY nasty things. gotta be mindfull of the simple things . :)