The PPG helical, synchro gearbox along with the ACT SB3-HD00 clutch/pressure plate represents the finest driveline upgrade for 90% of Subaru WRX owners. Since I just got this combo, I thought I'd lend my thoughts to the masses.

ACT SB3-HD00 clutch/pressure plate

Why? Holds 411 ft/lbs of torque. Remember kiddies....clutches hold torque, NOT horsepower. 411 is enough for most people.

Why not Exedy? Price check on aisle nine! The ACT unit vs. the stage 1 Exedy....there's like a $100+ price difference.

How does the clutch feel? It IS heavier than stock. It's terribly hard to judge just how hard, but it's harder to push down than the OEM unit due to the harder clamping of the pressure plate. I still think it's wife friendly, but my wife hasn't driven my car yet. I'll post her impressions too, but I honestly don't think it will be the cause of a huge fight.

Engagement vs. OEM clutch? In my case, the engagement is closer to the floor vs. OEM. It engages terribly smooth though. It almost feels like the clutch in an ecobox car. Though I haven't tried it, it feels like you could give it no gas and let up the clutch and the car would take off. Big surprise for me as I was suspecting some engagement funny business.

Anything else? Other than the firmer pedal, there are no downsides to this clutch. It still has an organic face, so the engagement is nice and the face is gear friendly though I don't necessarily need that now that I have PPG gears. :) But I didn't want make the mistake most do and buy too much clutch, which is bad.

Cost? $450ish depending on the Vendor.

PPG helical cut synchro 1-4 box

Why? It is the most popular upgrade that is bulletproof. Yes, there are plenty of other aftermarket gears available, but the only one I've seen with any amount of US support is through PPG. RAs are cheaper and though we can debate till we are blue in the face about wether they are stronger than the newer/wider OEM gears, I could also point out quite a few broken RA box owners. To date, there's only been one failure (attributed to and fixed by the manufacturer) of PPG gears and that was by Phil on a 2 year old box with OMG levels of HP.

Helical cut gears are loud aren't they? This is the wife friendly box. The gears are cut just like your OEM gears. I've heard a straight cut box and it whines just like reverse. In my helical cut box, there is a slight whine, but NOTHING like straight cuts gears. Once my wife hears it, I'll update this, but I'm sure it's no big deal. Like the whine? Get straight cut gears, or a 1/2 straight, 3/4 helical combo.

Aren't PPG gears hard to drive? No. My box is the synchro box. This means it uses the OEM synchros and drives just like a stock car. Want dog engagement so you can shift in .000034 seconds? Get a dog box.

How do you go about getting them? I chose www.gearboxtech.com as my Vendor. You either send them your tranny and the swap the gears out, or they offer a core service where they send you a box and you return your old box to them. In my case, I went there with a core and left with a complete box in person as I live somewhat close to their home in Gaithersburg, MD.

How hard is it to swap out trannys? To be honest, I had a good friend and NASIOC Vendor local to me ALL ASPECTS do all that business. He took his time and we goofed off a lot during the install as about 10 locals showed up to mack on my PPG goodness. Install started at 10 and I drove off with my new tranny at 3, with a break for lunch. Cost would probably be around $500-$700 for most shops to do a R&R of the trannys depending on your area.

Blaa, blaaa, blaaa......how does it drive? To be honest, I haven't driven it all that much and didn't do that much before and after comparo, but here's my views so far that I remember:

1. There is a slight whine to the gears inside the car. The radio EASILY overpowers the whine though. Not sure about outside the car whine though and I'll update when I know.
2. Synchro noise. I can hear the syncros spin up much easier now, especially going into 2nd and 3rd gear. I'm a touch shy on tranny fluid, so I'll fill it up and update as to wether this is a fluid issue or perhaps they need to bed in slightly since all the synchros are new.
3. Gotcha item. No one makes replacement synchros, so you still have to use the right fluids such as Redline, Motul, Uncle Scotty's etc. for the best synchro engagement. Right now I'm using Motul 300 as that's all that they had in stock, though I'm a Redline lightweight shockproof man myself.
4. Top speed in 2nd gear? 65 MPH
5. Top speed in 3rd gear? 95 MPH
6. Top speed in 4th gear? I dont know. I got up to 110 with about 2k of redline left and got skeerd as I don't like to go that fast on country roads where I did my test.
7. Boost comes on harder. With the OEM box, I used to see like 5 PSI in first gear. Now I'm seeing 9 PSI.

Cost? $4300.

I'll update this later with more data/opinions.

Thanks for the great review. I actually just picked up a spare tranny to ship to them to have built up when I get the cash. You are the one (well, and your FAQs) that turned me onto the PPG gears, and I really want a set now so I can stop worrying about the tranny and start worrying about easy to replace things like axles. Anyways, congrats, I know you have been wanting this for a while...

Well, that didn't take all that long to get installed. Very nice. I'll bet you've got the biggest stupid grin on your face right now.

BTW, with that upgraded pressure plate you might want to start thinking about upgrading the clutch line to something a little less expandable (says the guy who needs to do the same).

You make me want that gearset sooo bad....

Unabomber is teh Newb;) This should be in the Car part Review forum, lol.

$3500....!?!? well U got a sweet deal..... That is definetly way lower than the average joe is goin to shell out for 1-4 PPG straight, helix or mixed....and i got a good deal myself

thanks for the review... i didnt go with a PPG because my projected costs were quite a bit more than that after factoring in a case, 5th gear, synchros, assembly, etc. would have loved to go PPG but the cashmoney pointed toward a 6 speed... if you really only spent $3500 and thats what others can expect to spend on everything besides a clutch/flywheel then maybe they'd pick up a lot of prospective 6 speed purchasers, or current owners

<--- hint hint ;)

Nice write up Ron. Update us soon with the wifes input.

i reallly need to buy these.. at least 1st and 2nd.. so i can drive my car how its suppose to be driven and not have to worry about anything

Subscribed. Straight cut 1-2 and helical 3-4 are in the future....far future I hope.

yes prob. 3500 for the gears alone..then you need installation of gears in trans, a trans case IF you dont have one, any bearings or whatever might need to be replaced in it, (removal and installation of the trans itself,IF you cant do it by yourself) am i correct?

Yes you are correct. . . . $2400 for 1-2 $4700 1-4 ( including syncrhos in either case ) THATS WITH VERY LITTLE LAYBOR COST. $1000 for a frount LSD. For the guys at Anderws to pull your tranz and reinstall its $500. If you bring the tranz out of the car they will smile and just might let you have a piece of their 10 chicken nugets that magicly tuned into a 10 chicken

Very sweet... I can't wait to get my setup finished sporting the PPG goodness.

How much better or stronger would straight cut gears be over helical?

Is the difference large? Would straight only benefit stupid high hp cars?

also intrested would straight hold more power than helical. how much power are you running on your gears now?

also intrested would straight hold more power than helical. how much power are you running on your gears now?

straight cut will hold more power over helical, how much more I am not sure... Since no one has broken (through power) a set of PPG gears that I know of, there is little data to support conclusions. I would bet andrewtech/gearboxtech would know the theoretical numbers...

From what Andrew at Andrewtechautomotive says they are fairly close in terms of power handeling. The straight cuts have a bit more surface area contact when it comes to the individual tooth to tooth contact ( hence the louder whine ) So in saying that I would think that yes, the straights are some what stronger. Yet its the tourque that you put to then and not the HP that will slice off teeth. You would have to be a 500+hp Subby that races daily and does 6500rpm launches when ever there is a Honda or car full of hottys near by to rilly kill a PPG gear set straight or helical.......keep in mind that there still isnt a PPG gear set in the USA to be busted, on the account of driver stupidity and massive TQ-HP. ( U could be the first though!?! ) Only one I know of was manufacture defect and PPG took real good care of that problem. If you are rilly worried about strength get the straights if U dont want the whine get helical if you want the best of both worlds get 1-2 straight and 3-4 helical

To date, there's only been one failure (attributed to and fixed by the manufacturer) of PPG gears and that was by Phil on a 2 year old box with OMG levels of HP.


My friend met a bugeye WRX at Nopi Dragwars in Rockingham a few months back that was insanely fast running very low 11's. The owner told him he had a PPG equipped tranny and that they took all the beating in the world. Then on his last drag launch he shredded that tranny and blew one of the gears (I think it was 2nd). It had a noticable whine in 1st and 2nd in the vid I saw of it and it sounded just like straight cut gears.

Whether there really were PPG's in there or something else I don't know but I am just stating what we were told. I bet they were Kaaz gears or something. This bugeye was from Virginia I think.

also intrested would straight hold more power than helical. how much power are you running on your gears now?

For a given gear width, helical will be stronger than straight cut. This is due to the fact that helical gears have an overlap of around 2 while straight cut gears have an overlap of about 1.35. The reason straight cut gears are percieved to be stronger is that most often straight cut gears are found without synchros thus letting the gear, wither straight cut or helical, be wider. This is all in one of the stickied FAQs around here somewhere.

My friend met a bugeye WRX at Nopi Dragwars in Rockingham a few months back that was insanely fast running very low 11's. The owner told him he had a PPG equipped tranny and that they took all the beating in the world. Then on his last drag launch he shredded that tranny and blew one of the gears (I think it was 2nd). It had a noticable whine in 1st and 2nd in the vid I saw of it and it sounded just like straight cut gears.

Whether there really were PPG's in there or something else I don't know but I am just stating what we were told. I bet they were Kaaz gears or something. This bugeye was from Virginia I think.

There was a very high hp bugeye running PPGs that would be at an event like that (s/n 500hpwrx or something like that, shawn lozy).


You have me very curious now.

There was a very high hp bugeye running PPGs that would be at an event like that (s/n 500hpwrx or something like that, shawn lozy).


You have me very curious now.

Do you know if he was at the Rockingham, NC Nopi event this year? Like I said this is all coming from friends as I was at another event in VA that weekend proving my 11 sec stock block times:lol: .

Funny he was in my neck of the woods and I was in his neck of the woods on the same weekend.:alien:

For a given gear width, helical will be stronger than straight cut. This is due to the fact that helical gears have an overlap of around 2 while straight cut gears have an overlap of about 1.35. The reason straight cut gears are percieved to be stronger is that most often straight cut gears are found without synchros thus letting the gear, wither straight cut or helical, be wider. This is all in one of the stickied FAQs around here somewhere.

Typically yes, but what we don't know is the tooth root width for the heli vs the straight. The rw of the straight cut may be big enough to offset the difference in strength when compared to the heli.

Another thing to consider is that with straight cut you're going to see lower thrust loads when compared to heli cut. I'm not sure how much of a bearing this would have on the gear strength though. Instead it's more of interest for longevity of the bearings and shaft trueness.

Typically yes, but what we don't know is the tooth root width for the heli vs the straight. The rw of the straight cut may be big enough to offset the difference in strength when compared to the heli.

Another thing to consider is that with straight cut you're going to see lower thrust loads when compared to heli cut. I'm not sure how much of a bearing this would have on the gear strength though. Instead it's more of interest for longevity of the bearings and shaft trueness.

If the consideration expands to thrust loads, then you also have to look at the direction of the vector, not just just magnitude. Helical gears direct some of the thrust longitudinally down the shaft and some of it perpendicular to the shaft. Straight cut gears direct it all perpendicular to the shaft. With as flexible as the Subaru shafts are, this thrust force may be enough to bow the shafts to the point that the gears move away from each other far enough that the teeth are only meshing with part of their height and thus can shear off.

If the consideration expands to thrust loads, then you also have to look at the direction of the vector, not just just magnitude. Helical gears direct some of the thrust longitudinally down the shaft and some of it perpendicular to the shaft. Straight cut gears direct it all perpendicular to the shaft. With as flexible as the Subaru shafts are, this thrust force may be enough to bow the shafts to the point that the gears move away from each other far enough that the teeth are only meshing with part of their height and thus can shear off.

AH! Good point. I had not thought of that.

My friend met a bugeye WRX at Nopi Dragwars in Rockingham a few months back that was insanely fast running very low 11's. The owner told him he had a PPG equipped tranny and that they took all the beating in the world. Then on his last drag launch he shredded that tranny and blew one of the gears (I think it was 2nd). It had a noticable whine in 1st and 2nd in the vid I saw of it and it sounded just like straight cut gears.

Whether there really were PPG's in there or something else I don't know but I am just stating what we were told. I bet they were Kaaz gears or something. This bugeye was from Virginia I think.

This is probably out of date but from fastwrx.com, Lozy's car has:

-Challack dog box trans w/ 3.91 final gear

I agree with Unabomber's review as far as the strength of the PPG gears, but I just want to set the record straight as far as the whining noise of the PPG gears. I have the PPG 1-4 helical synchro box, and the whine is Most Certainly NOT WIFE FRIENDLY. (I gave my GF a ride back from the airport and she says it felt like she was still on the airplane).
While it is quieter than straight cut dog box, it is still MUCH louder than stock. Especially 3rd and 4th gear in low rpms. The high pitched sound takes quite a few turns of my stock radio to drown it out.

I still like my new transmission, in fact I enjoy the whine to a certain degree, and also since PPG is a good preparation step toward a 2.5 torque monster, but I just don't want any fellow members to get mislead on the noise like I did.

I rode in his car the day it was installed, and it was very quiet :confused:


Ron, has it gotten any louder? And do you know about any HR/va beach residents that might have broken a ppg?

Not to be rude Unabomber but I think you are gravely miss repersenting PPG gears by saying you only paid $3500.00. You make people like myself think that I can just give http://www.andrewtechautomotive.com a call and $3500.00 later I have PPG 1-4 tranny and new clutch.

Give us a final TOTAL price or edit your post. :furious:

All the crap threads that are in this forum make it hard enough to pick which route to take we don't need another one confusing people more.

I rode in his car the day it was installed, and it was very quiet :confused:


Ron, has it gotten any louder? And do you know about any HR/va beach residents that might have broken a ppg?

Hmmm, maybe install issue or just subjective hearing differences? Cuz I know I'm not the only one. This is from another member, cwarcup:
--------------------------------
Anyway, 1) the gear whine is pretty loud, loud enough that when people ride in my car they ask what's wrong with it. From what I've read and heard it's completely normal. 4) The car sounds exactly the same today as it did when I drover it home from andrewtech. I've put about 2500 miles on the new tranny and it still whines, a lot, but I don't really mind it.
-------------------------------
No problems as far as driving goes. The whine actually gets better in the higher rpms.

As far as accurate pricing, I can tell you if you bring your car to andrewtech, drop it off, and pick it up later with 1-4 helical cut ppg syncros, you're looking at 4500 total. Not sure about clutches.

How much better or stronger would straight cut gears be over helical?

Is the difference large? Would straight only benefit stupid high hp cars?

No one really knows. In theory, helicals might be stronger than straight due to greater contact patch and more teeth engaging vs. straight cut. This is all theory though. If you are interested, contact Andrewtech to see if they know the differences from PPG as I just know the theory.

also intrested would straight hold more power than helical. how much power are you running on your gears now?

On my last tune, I was roughly 250HP/250TQ. This tranny might be overkill, but hey why not?

My friend met a bugeye WRX at Nopi Dragwars in Rockingham a few months back that was insanely fast running very low 11's. The owner told him he had a PPG equipped tranny and that they took all the beating in the world. Then on his last drag launch he shredded that tranny and blew one of the gears (I think it was 2nd). It had a noticable whine in 1st and 2nd in the vid I saw of it and it sounded just like straight cut gears.

Whether there really were PPG's in there or something else I don't know but I am just stating what we were told. I bet they were Kaaz gears or something. This bugeye was from Virginia I think.

I'm willing to bet he was running something else. If someone did shred PPGs, I'm damn sure Andrewtech would know about it and be the first to offer the customer a deal from hell to find out what went wrong.

I agree with Unabomber's review as far as the strength of the PPG gears, but I just want to set the record straight as far as the whining noise of the PPG gears. I have the PPG 1-4 helical synchro box, and the whine is Most Certainly NOT WIFE FRIENDLY. (I gave my GF a ride back from the airport and she says it felt like she was still on the airplane).
While it is quieter than straight cut dog box, it is still MUCH louder than stock. Especially 3rd and 4th gear in low rpms. The high pitched sound takes quite a few turns of my stock radio to drown it out.

I still like my new transmission, in fact I enjoy the whine to a certain degree, and also since PPG is a good preparation step toward a 2.5 torque monster, but I just don't want any fellow members to get mislead on the noise like I did.

Noise is TERRIBLY relative, I'll be the first to admit. To my ears, it's not that bad at all. I can best akin it to say Borla Hush owners who think they have a quiet exhaust. Once I whip out my dB meter and show them the facts.....they find out it ain't so quiet. Subjectively speaking though, from my viewpoint, they are louder than OEM, but not in the least bit annoying.

I rode in his car the day it was installed, and it was very quiet :confused:

Ron, has it gotten any louder? And do you know about any HR/va beach residents that might have broken a ppg?

Nope and nope.

Not to be rude Unabomber but I think you are gravely miss repersenting PPG gears by saying you only paid $3500.00. You make people like myself think that I can just give http://www.andrewtechautomotive.com a call and $3500.00 later I have PPG 1-4 tranny and new clutch.

Give us a final TOTAL price or edit your post. :furious:

All the crap threads that are in this forum make it hard enough to pick which route to take we don't need another one confusing people more.

Sorry for the confusion as there's a difference between MY price and the price that the rest of the nation pays. :( I priced the clutch at $450, but I only paid $250 through a buddy. $3500 is the price I paid from Andrew, plus $60 for Motul 300. I'll find out the real cost and edit it with my "lie" so the info is accurate for others.

$4300 is the price for those who want to know and I edited my first post. Mind you....I got a special deal through Andrew. As to a TOTAL price....that I don't know as I got my clutch from a buddy and same said buddy did the R&R of my tranny for a song.

$4300 is the price for those who want to know and I edited my first post. Mind you....I got a special deal through Andrew. As to a TOTAL price....that I don't know as I got my clutch from a buddy and same said buddy did the R&R of my tranny for a song.

Is this $4300 the quote is if I took my tranny out MYSELF, and drove MYSELF up to Andrew's and dropped the tranny off and when he was done I came back and picked it up MYSELF and reinstalled the tranny MYSELF?...:lol:

In otherwords all Andrew is doing is installing the gears and other stuff.

Really....I don't know all the ins and outs of each situation....call Andrewtech and ask them.

Is this $4300 the quote is if I took my tranny out MYSELF, and drove MYSELF up to Andrew's and dropped the tranny off and when he was done I came back and picked it up MYSELF and reinstalled the tranny MYSELF?...:lol:

In other words all Andrew is doing is installing the gears and other stuff.

thats what i did, drove from NH to MD and back with the trans. they installed the gears, helped me load it back into the truck and handed me a bill. OMG i wanted to RUN :lol: mine was FAR more money than what Ron paid but then again, i have and sti and also installed a better front diff at the same time.

my 1-4 straight cut dog set was incredibly loud for the first 800-1k. now it is loud but not that bad, imo.

ted

thats what i did, drove from NH to MD and back with the trans. they installed the gears, helped me load it back into the truck and handed me a bill. OMG i wanted to RUN :lol: mine was FAR more money than what Ron paid but then again, i have and sti and also installed a better front diff at the same time.

my 1-4 straight cut dog set was incredibly loud for the first 800-1k. now it is loud but not that bad, imo.

ted

Be quiet you!!! I'm jealous that I'm going to have to save for so long to get mine set up like yours. :mad:

also, what ratio's did you get?

higher boost because of the gearbox seems strange? if anything, wouldn't it be because of the higher clamping force of the clutch?

As you are using the OEM synchro's, did you upgrade to the 06 first gear synchro to get away from the double clutch action (is that possible?). And why no 5th PPG? Cost?

Be quiet you!!! I'm jealous that I'm going to have to save for so long to get mine set up like yours. :mad:

you guys need to say hell with it and spend the money. stop trying to build a strong backbone for your company, you could write it off anyhow. :devil: :lol:

also, what ratio's did you get?

higher boost because of the gearbox seems strange? if anything, wouldn't it be because of the higher clamping force of the clutch?

this is going to sound rude i think....do you even know why boost is built? it has almost nothing to do with the clutch, that is unless it is slipping a lot. boost builds due to load vs rpm, if you get taller gearing the load will be higher thus allowing the load to be increased. with the 6sp ppg 1-4 i am building at least 17psi in first.

Hello everyone. I'm gonna put up prices in the vensor section so there is no question of what is how much.

Andrew Yates

As you are using the OEM synchro's, did you upgrade to the 06 first gear synchro to get away from the double clutch action (is that possible?). And why no 5th PPG? Cost?

Honestly with the PPG gears and good fluid we've had very good feedback on the improvement of first engagement. We use the single syncro with PPG first.
Andrew Yates

Is this $4300 the quote is if I took my tranny out MYSELF, and drove MYSELF up to Andrew's and dropped the tranny off and when he was done I came back and picked it up MYSELF and reinstalled the tranny MYSELF?...:lol:

In otherwords all Andrew is doing is installing the gears and other stuff.

Yup. That would be for a 1-4 syncro gearset ($3500), install parts ($95), 1 syncro ($20) since PPG doesnt use factory 3rd, installed in a loose unit ($650).

Andrew Yates

Been running PPG helical /synchro 1-4th and all i can say....brilliant gearset

I ve gone from OEM breaking 2nd to Kaaz and now to PPG
Replace my kaaz gearset mainly of the short gear ratio and shifting issues,not to mention the wear after just 8 months....no worth a penny!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since i had the ppg done 120+ passes with car running last week 12.03@115.33mph...dont know what it does on dyno
As for noise with PPG helical....well nothing compare to Kaaz straight cuts!!!

If I am not mistaken one should expect to pay 4500-5500 for a complete PPG set up with a good clutch...

It seems to me that if you are interested in Drag racing only that this is a great set up and the one you must have... however for nearly half the price you can have a 6mt that has beed shown to be very strong, but with less "drag race" friendly gearing.

So would it be safe to say the PPG gears are realy drag race gears?

If I am not mistaken one should expect to pay 4500-5500 for a complete PPG set up with a good clutch...

It seems to me that if you are interested in Drag racing only that this is a great set up and the one you must have... however for nearly half the price you can have a 6mt that has beed shown to be very strong, but with less "drag race" friendly gearing.

So would it be safe to say the PPG gears are realy drag race gears?

Not to burst any 6 sp fanboy's pride but I think the 6sp is junk. Too busy shifting and all. The only thing I see them being good for is AutoX where you are in short bursts all the time. I have a buddy here that went from the 5 sp to the 6 sp and to tell you the truth, his car feels slow with the 6 sp. When he had the 5 sp it just pulled and pulled. Now it pulls, shift, pulls, shift.:lol:


And to 2000wrx you can't get a 6 speed for half the price. 6 speeds go for 3000-3800 and then you have to get driveshaft, rear end and all that ish. Yeah you can go cheaper and get the 3.9 R160 R&P but then before too long you'll snap those spider gears if you have decent power. I agree with Unabomber.....get PPG's and be done with it.

I got a 1-4 Straight cut synchro done by Andrew, and it was 4700 just for the transmission repair/install, that didn't include having the tranny dropped and put back in. Which I think was $400.

this is going to sound rude i think....do you even know why boost is built? it has almost nothing to do with the clutch, that is unless it is slipping a lot. boost builds due to load vs rpm, if you get taller gearing the load will be higher thus allowing the load to be increased. with the 6sp ppg 1-4 i am building at least 17psi in first.

yes it does sound rude, i also realize that his previous clutch may have been slipping in relation to his new clutch which may not be. less load vs. more load. thanks and come again:rolleyes:

edit: and I do realize that the different boost could be attributed to his gear's which is why I asked what ratio's because I didnt know what they were... two variables were changed so its really not a controlled enviroment.

also, what ratio's did you get?

higher boost because of the gearbox seems strange? if anything, wouldn't it be because of the higher clamping force of the clutch?

The ratios are in the Transmission FAQ, I don't know them off the top of my head. The are pretty close to OEM, except first, which is much longer. Andrew and I have been cooking up theorys as to what ratios would do to boost. It would seem (honestly, I didn't get a good before and after comparo) that longer ratios stress the motor more. This would equate into more PSI based on load. As I recall, my old first gear blasts netted 5 PSI and the new longer ratio blasts net 9 PSI, so longer ratios = more boost in lower gears without tuning. This isn't a good or bad thing mind you, just a side effect of the ratios.

Previously, I used an OEM clutch and honestly changed it for NO REASON as the tranny was out, a buddy had one, and I might as well do it in one shot. The higher clamping force/new clutch would have no effect on the boost.

As you are using the OEM synchro's, did you upgrade to the 06 first gear synchro to get away from the double clutch action (is that possible?). And why no 5th PPG? Cost?

I'm pretty sure PPG doesn't make a 5th gear. If they did, I wouldn't have gotten it unless it was a better ratio for cruising than OEM. OEM = nearly bullet proof, deadly quiet, and free.

Still have the old synchro style. In order to go to the 06 version, it's a huge and expensive PITA from what Andrew told me. First gear with that Motul 300 is very nice. Admittadly, I hate the Motul 300 dorks here as they seem to look down their noses at the rest of us (sorry for the generalization Motul 300 dorks), but I will admit, its a damn nice fluid. I prefer the blingy blue of the Redline superlight shockproof vs. the clear 300 though.

If I am not mistaken one should expect to pay 4500-5500 for a complete PPG set up with a good clutch...

It seems to me that if you are interested in Drag racing only that this is a great set up and the one you must have... however for nearly half the price you can have a 6mt that has beed shown to be very strong, but with less "drag race" friendly gearing.

So would it be safe to say the PPG gears are realy drag race gears?

That's a short sighted attitude as PPG gears are cheaper than a 6MT swap. Yes, there is a thread here where someone did it for under $3000....the odds of someone doing it for under $6000 in real life is very low though. I've seen them done by many people and the figure of $6000-$7000 is most common when the dust settles.

PPG gears are great for drag, but also perfect for autocross. HPDE events or road courses....then it starts to lean to the USDM or JDM 6MT though as they are best for them and there's never a best for all gearbox as we all know.

Why are the 6mt's better for hpde/road racing?

The 6-speed is just a better designed transmission, and the gears are ridiculous.

But don't fret InfamousDX, your 5-speed dogbox is nothing to sneeze at. It's still an amazing transmission!

Phil
Andrewtech Automotive

I for one prefer a 5-speed, but I love the fact that 6-speeds have upgraded diffs. There's more to a six speed other than the extra gear and strength.

Not to burst any 6 sp fanboy's pride but I think the 6sp is junk. Too busy shifting and all. The only thing I see them being good for is AutoX where you are in short bursts all the time. Except on the 6-speed, 2nd gear is too short, so may have to go back and forth between 2nd and 3rd, which doesn't help your times. That's one of the few advantages the 5 speed has over the 6-speed :)

john

I have an 06 STI and I have driven a friend's brother's WRX w/ the 5 speed. I didnt go on a track or anything with it so I have no comment with that, but driving around I can tell you I enjoyed not feeling rushed to shift with 1st and 2nd because the wider ratios...
If I sold the 6 speed what would be needed to get the 5 speed in? A new front diff because mines in the case being sold?

Good points, I guess I just don't have deep enough pockets for a fast Subaru. I have been on the fence weather to keep the scooby or move to something that doesn't cost a first born to go fast.

5000-7000 for a viable trans just doesn't seem right to me, not when you can get a RWD 600ftlb rate trans for under 2k and an equally strong rear end for 1500.

I love my Subaru but I can't get over spending that kind of money on just a trans... let alone all the other cost associated with making a subaru move.

I appreciate the info though... :(

I have to agree. I've been spoiled by dirt cheap chevy small block parts. An extra beefy muncie 4 speed would run about $800 around here. I love this car, but man, the price of gaining some confidence in my my driveline makes selling for an 02 z28 5 speed more and more attractive. And no, not all of us can just run by the stealership and trade up to a $35,000 STi without loosing the roof over our head. And damn, $2500 + shipping and core for a rebuilt RA box that I'm still not super confindent in. Crazy. But those PPGs... a guy can dream eh?

I have an 06 STI and I have driven a friend's brother's WRX w/ the 5 speed. I didnt go on a track or anything with it so I have no comment with that, but driving around I can tell you I enjoyed not feeling rushed to shift with 1st and 2nd because the wider ratios...
If I sold the 6 speed what would be needed to get the 5 speed in? A new front diff because mines in the case being sold?

Err...

Hey, I'm the first to say that the ratios aren't the most desireable for 6-speeds, but your tranny is fine. Much stronger than stock 5-speeds, plus the differentials are far superior over the 5-speed differentials. I would just keep it, not worth the hassle or dough.

The only update I have after driving a week now is that the clutch has broken in/bedded in or something and it's much easier now. While not OEM in the firmness department, it's (pure guess here) only about 20% stiffer than what it was.

Still loving the box though. :)

And I'll also agree and forgot to mention that the 6MT differentials (for those that use them) are better when considering a PPG vs. 6MT swap.

this thread is great.. i started my saving for a PPG gear box a few months ago... and hope by early 07 to be adding to this thread as an owner..

For those of you above me that are getting discouraged by the price of making a subaru fast.. dont think about it like that... out of all the members on Nasioc how many have PPG gears.. NOT MANY.. its a big upgrade... not something every suby owner will do.. dont think you cant have a fast suby just cause you cant upgrade your tranny... i have an 02 with a vf-34 and some other mods and LOVE the car.. just got my new clutch and flywheel and remember why i love it even more.. granted there was an autox today and i couldnt participate because i know my gears arent up for that right now..

If you love your suby save for the gears if you really want them.. if not save for an STi.. or just have a nice stage 2 WRX.. that is always clean, looks good and start to pay it off..

Most people that buy these cars take out a 4-5 year loan.. thats 4 or 5 years you can save for a mod like this..

David

I definitely love the car, but it seems that you have to not only refrain from abuse, but go extra easy on the thing for it to last more than a couple of years without catastrophic driveline woes while putting out above-stock power. It just seems to me that a company that could offer a much stronger gearset for an reasonable retail cost would make some great money. I mean andrewtech posted $2000+ for just 1-2 gears?!? That's like a $1000 for just the mainshaft and another $500 for each of 2 driven gears (sound like a fair distribution?). That's crazy. I just can't comprehend how the materials and and some machining could equate to that kind of money. Seems like they could cut the price in half and sell 3-5 times and many. I'll admit that I don't know the first thing about what the production cost of a single cog is from beginning to end, but it can't be anywhere near $500.

I honestly don't mean to be a whining newbie, but retailers can't even keep the $1400 RA sets in stock... imagine how well a stronger set of gears at a reasonable price would sell? Any of you gear manufacturers listening :D ?

^^True. I know if the cost was lower, about three friends and I would be all over a PPG gearset.

From what I have seen in the last nearly 10 years here is that Subaru performance is a rich mans game, (if you want serious power/performance). I equate Suabru cost with Porsche as they seem to be on par for the most part.

I love my Subaru, but I think it will be relagate to daily drive and not street/track terror. I feel I have to search for a more wallet friendly platform. I just want swallor 5-7K for a viable trans option, not when domestics can have the same for under 3K. :( Subaru must use unobtainum in the trans gears.

Porsche? Hell, I'm off to trade in my wrx for a shiny new 911 today ;) True, subie might just match porsche part for part... But hey, the lgt is coming here with the 6 speed too! Maybe more of these 6mt boxes will be in the market soon with increased production, bringing down prices of both 6mts and competition from ppg? I know I live in a dream world... but I can hope, can't I?

yeah it just depends on what you want... you saw unabomber posted hes only making 250hp/250 lbs torque.. i am making a little bit over that on stock gears.. its a nice accomplishment to say you have a 6 speed swap, or to say you have PPG gears.. that is why not everyone has them... i cant wait for mine.. might take me another 6 months.. but they will come

David

lol you haven't accomplished anything... you just wrote a check if you have either... it's just a question of spending your money. If you think it’s worth it to spend 5-6K on a trans so be it.

I can not justify that kind of spending when I know of many other platforms that do not require such an out lay of cash.

To me Subaru's are just inherently difficult (expensive) to make fast, they work against you be design.

Do I love me car sure, but I know that for my to make the power I really want I would have to spend 50% more compared to other cars.

This is a bummer, and if I had lots of cash to throw around I would have a crazy lil scooby, but I do not :(

lol you haven't accomplished anything... you just wrote a check if you have either.

That in my opinion is an immature statement. It's all about what you want. Not whether you spent xxxx dollars on something. If ya want something cheap that can go fast for cheap then go buy a DSM. We all have our hobbies and we all have things we spend tons of money. Some people spend tons of money on their cars, some spend it on houses, some spend on alcohol, some on women, some on drugs, you get the jist.

thats interesting, I consider saying "I have X part on my car is an achievment" to be a little immature. Supporting a family, helping people who need help, educating those who need education, these are achievments. Spending money on car parts is not an achievment.

It isn't about cheap, it is about reasonable... I understand this is subjective. So for me and my budget 5-6k for a trans in unreasonable. Like I have already said if I had more money to spend I'm sure I would have a nastly lil scooby.

Well not that I have trashed an otherwise great thread, I will appoligze and take my leave.

No worries folks..... we all have our OPINIONS and the expense is a fact that needs discussion. I will say this though.....I have been somewhat privy to the cost of PPG gears as I have had some intimate involvement with PPG's pricing structure. Their profit margin is probably the lowest of all aftermarket parts on the Subaru market. So hopes of sales or price reductions is very low as of right now. Plus duty and shipping from Australia is a big killer as well (AKA APS sticker shock).

One update I have though about the tranny that didn't click until yesterday though:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1093638

While this post deals with my firm rear end, it goes without saying that removing movement to the rear will increase HP to the road. Since the gears can now take the bangin', I'm bangin' gears like crazy and having an AWD car squat is really, really bad ass! :banana:

Ron

I understand that you have to pay to play, but I'm still thinking things should be reasonable. A transmission being nearly 1/4 of the cost of a new wrx is not reasonable. I want LOTs of things for my wrx, but I don't have that kind of money. It's not what you want, it's what you can afford.

OK, so with all of this talk about driving like a asshat being allowable... What exactly makes the helical synchro PPGs THAT much stronger than stock or RA gears? I don't see how they could be too much wider with synchros still in the way. Is it root width of the teeth? Materials? Shotpeening/heat/cryo treating? What's the deal?

I understand that you have to pay to play, but I'm still thinking things should be reasonable. A transmission being nearly 1/4 of the cost of a new wrx is not reasonable. I want LOTs of things for my wrx, but I don't have that kind of money. There are other options that are cheaper. They are just not as good.

If you can't meet your goals within your budget it means you didn't do enough research before you bought your car (or you bought it before there WAS research).

john

The root width is larger and the teeth profiles are much fatter and more rounded. With the teeth not being so thin up top you get much more strength.

There are other options that are cheaper. They are just not as good.

If you can't meet your goals within your budget it means you didn't do enough research before you bought your car (or you bought it before there WAS research).

john

Very well put!

I did research the car. I was under the impression that the 5mt would hold together if I don't flog it. I didn't flog it, and it's blown up twice. After putting 450 crank hp through a gm th350 in a 4300lb twin turbo jaguar, and about 300hp in a turbocharged 2.6L mbz 190E (16 year old car at the time mind you) without a single transmission problem, i was hoping that the wrx could handle it's own power + a catback and K&N... I learned the hard way, what can I say? My goal: I want to be able to take the car down a twisty road with reasonable confidence that it won't spit gear teeth all over the pavement. I don't race civics at every stop-light, and I'm really not concerned with the 1/4. Living pretty close to the mountains, handling and reasonable midrange was the idea, hence my purchase of a subaru. If gear dimensions are the major difference, I'm not sure why subaru didn't put down a better gear profile in the first place. Sounds like PPG simply did what subaru should have done long before production of the 6mt.

twice? Without drag racing? I'm skeptical in the least. This transmission has been sold not only here, but in many other countries for a long time.

The strength lies in heat treatment and tooth width. I WISH I had a side by side comparo, but maybe later. Using just a guess, I'd say there are 50% less PPG teeth to OEM in most gears. I'd say they are 3-4 times the width.

You were doing 110 mph on a public street!?!?!!?

Ok now that I can bring that up for the rest of our lives. How would you rate gearboxtech? I've only heard good things about them, its would be nice to know for sure they are THAT good.

When it comes to this transmission when I want to do my PPG's I want only the best and its soooooo convient that they are so close to me...

Keep in mind, I bought the car knowing the transmission should be treated nicely. My friend has an '02 wagon with 130K on it now, trans lasted till 120ish, then a bearing failure, and he is hard on it.

My used wrx w/ 74k miles: first trans went soon after purchase, I figured the guy before had beaten it into submission. And the gears were fine, the front bearing on the mainshaft went bad, scuffing the journal, and it was making some awful noises. Second transmission: low mile used unit... 2 teeth popped cleanly off of only the mainshaft side of second gear while pulling into the driveway, even the subaru tech said this didn't look like abuse as all other gears/bearings/synchros looked really clean. I was extra careful with that second box after the first experience. I've never "stripped" any gears on any car. No I don't drag race, and I woudn't dare to EVER launch a 5mt (even nicely), it's not a crazy-fast car once you're moving anyway. This is why I'm frustrated. Like I said, I prefer the twisties.

One thing I like about the PPGs is that the mainshaft looks thicker over the span that runs from the front of the trans to the first bearing in the case (at least in the picture I saw). I'm thinking this type of flex certainly could contribute to the problems I've had. Yet another thing that should have been done from the factory to keep mainshaft flex to a minimum for a very small increase in re-tooling cost. After seeing how cleanly 2 teeth snapped off of second, I'd say bigger teeth = good. Seems like you guy's with the PPGs say they whine a bit more. Maybe Subaru was trying to keep gear noise to a minimum with the tooth profile?

True, the 5mt has been around, but go to the forums for guys in the UK, Poland, etc. Guys in other countries have been blowing up the 5mt for years too, even with shorter final drive ratios. Americans may be retarded and hard on our automobiles, but other people are hard on the WRX as well. PPGs ftw!

^^ Anderwtech's shop is probably the most knowlageable shop I have been in since I bought my car in May of 02. When it comes to Subaru Transmission Wisdom they are at the top of any "subby shop" list. I was there inperson to watch my tranz get built, they did it rite and knew exactly what they where doing.......they probably would have let me work along side them if I had asked. Besides tranz they know how to do pertymuch whatever U could want done to your car, and they will stand by what ever they do and the products the carry and install. If U where to bring them something to put on your car and asked then if it where a peice of crap and they knew it was....they would tell you ( but only if U asked ) not because its junk but they are about doin it rite the first time with the rite stuff

How would you rate gearboxtech?

You know that feeling you get in your stomach when you learn a bunch of good information here? Then you think, "Man, I'd really like to meet so and so or XXX user as I wonder if he's that cool and knowledgeable in real life?". Imagine meeting that person in real life when you speak to Andrew, Dan, Phil, or any of the guys at Andrewtech. They REALLY are that good. And since you are local....you need to know the BEST thing about Andrewtech, which is the close proximity to the restaurant called the Nibbler. Its a Peruvian place that sells the Butafari, a Peruvian steak sandwich. It's so good, you will drive home and smack yo momma and that's no lie. Each gearset comes with a free Butafari and Inca Cola (offer valid to locals only).

(offer valid to locals only).:mad:

:mad: indeed

:mad: indeed

I'll tell you what....you send me a Carne Asada Burrito and I'll send you a Peruvian steak sandwich.

I'm in Southern California... I'll hook you up with a couple of months supply of carne asada burritos if you can get me your price on those PPGs ;)

Dude, I don't think you can afford a months supply to me and that's no lie. I ate 2-4 of them every day while I was in San Diego for 4 months.

2-4 a day? :huh: ouch. On a another note... what's the next weakest link in the driveline? Center diff, axles? I'd imagine if you get gears that allow asshat driving, other parts of the driveline may become a bit stressed.

Next weakest would be (these are guesses only) spider gears in the rear end or one of the axles. This is based on drivetrain failures I've heard of other than gears in a WRX. Spider gears usually blow due to RWD conversion Subaur guys doing Mustang burnouts and occasionally someone will pop on axle for various odd reasons.

Next weakest would be (these are guesses only) spider gears in the rear end or one of the axles. This is based on drivetrain failures I've heard of other than gears in a WRX. Spider gears usually blow due to RWD conversion Subaur guys doing Mustang burnouts and occasionally someone will pop on axle for various odd reasons.

Have a friend that broke his axle on only a 280 hp WRX. He launches hard and like an asshat popping the clutch. What else would you expect when you shock the drivetrain like that? This was after he got the 6 sp and wasn't scared of the tranny anymore.

Spider gear weakness can be solved with a good LSD in the rear like the Cusco or Quaife.

burnin4 i think killed his spider in the rear but this is at like 600hp and crazy launches

I know a guy who broke an axle at the drag strip on an sti with stg2 power levels so I assume thats probably the next weakest link (no pun intended :D ). Are Sti axles and wrx axles the same or similar?

Congrats bomber, wish I had the loot for a box. I guess I'll just have to wait until my current one explodes (I have repair insurance ;) )...

how do u get repair insureance and what is it? or am i missing something lol

how do u get repair insureance and what is it? or am i missing something lol

All you have to do is ask. I have Geico and they offer it. Basically when my car breaks, they pay for it (minus the deductible). Its only available until a car reaches 100,000 miles or until its 7 years old. I haven't even used it yet though because the factory warranty covered me for the first three years (held off on the mods until the bumper-to-bumper warranty was gone) and the easy stuff I just do myself with a buddy. I think a wheel bearing just went though so I'll be using it for the first time soon.

All you have to do is ask. I have Geico and they offer it. Basically when my car breaks, they pay for it (minus the deductible). Its only available until a car reaches 100,000 miles or until its 7 years old. I haven't even used it yet though because the factory warranty covered me for the first three years (held off on the mods until the bumper-to-bumper warranty was gone) and the easy stuff I just do myself with a buddy. I think a wheel bearing just went though so I'll be using it for the first time soon.

Really? How much extra is it?

Really? How much extra is it?

Obviously it will vary per insurance company/owner/car/circumstances/deductible but mine is only like $78 every six months...thats around the number, I have to check for the exact value. And don't forget, you have to pay the deductible every time you need a repair, but its still well worth it IMO.

Sounds like a good write up. Lots of honest opinions on here. While I am by no means a rich guy, this sounds like something worth saving for. Might even make the drive up there just to see how this is all acomplished. I have to say while I could get another old late 80's early 90's mustang and build it up way cheaper, the experience of launching hard in an AWD car is like nothing else. I like the lill rex and love how it handles even stock. I could also buy an Sti and maybe have it hold up to the power I want to put down, but for the extra $10k I could have a nice tranny, a better engine and probably some more go fast goodies to throw in. Plus my insurance company still just sees a plain jane wrx.

What kind of modification needs to be done to the WRX transmission case to run PPG straight cut 1-2 helical 3-4???

No modification needed.