I have already been quoted for a Coolingmist system with the varicool controller that is a very good quote, I am interested in all of my options though.

1 - I want clog detection and a check valve - safety valve
2 - I want to mount the tank in my engine bay or use my stock washer fluid tank
3 - I want it to ramp up when I get on boost (kick in at 9 psi, full injection at 16psi or something like that)
4 - I want low-level indicators

So, who on here wants to post their purchase 'experience' with a water/meth injection system. I am not on this forum much and to not interact with vendors here. I am pretty sure the vendor I got a quote from is also on this board. I want to give them my business... I am cool with them... but I also want to hear thoughts and pricing on other kits. Just something I like to do before spending my money.

Thank you in advance for any purchasing advice.

Oh FYI..
yes I am installing this on my own
yes I am getting it tuned (COBB AP)
I am stage II - uppipe, downpipe, stock TMIC, stock turbo, stock CBE
I plan to install the injector on the bottom side of my TMIC exit endtank facing up.

For what it's worth, coolingmist has no product for sale that will tell you if a nozzle is clogged(if that's what you're looking for), so you should add the price of that to whatever they quoted you if you didn't already.

peace

CasopoliS ,

Our "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" will tell you if your system is clogged. its a simple set up and if your nozzle is clogged the system will tell you. We guarantee it or your money back.

CasopoliS ,

Our "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" will tell you if your system is clogged. its a simple set up and if your nozzle is clogged the system will tell you. We guarantee it or your money back.

Please explain how your "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" operates?

I will. It's a pressure switch(seriously). If the pressure is above a given amount, it thinks everything is ok. If it's not, it doesn't. The problem with this is that it will only detect if there's a problem before the sensor. Since the nozzle is after the sensor(on every system in the world), the "clog nozzle detector"(edit, inserted nozzle:)) will not be able to tell you if the nozzle is clogged or not. That's why I said that coolingmist doesn't sell anything which can detect if a nozzle is clogged:).

peace

Please explain how your "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" operates?

The status detector is placed in between the checkvalve and the injector. It will light the led when it flows by detecting the pressure in the line. After you let off the gas and get out of boost the led will go out as the pressure will bleed from the line. If the nozzle is clogged the pressure will be held in the line between the checkvalve and the nozzle as it cant escape from either side.

The clog nozzle/status detector is simply something to tell you if there is an issue. If it doesn't light up when it should or if it is lit up when it should not be there is a problem.

I'm not getting on this site to debate the merrits of the detector. We are simply saying that it does what we say and its an option, if someone doesn't like it, thats fine. There are "Failsafes" on the market that have easily been integrated into our system, for those customers that want to take advantage of our advanced controller , but want a "fail safe" device, it makes a good option.

It will light the led when it flows by detecting the pressure in the line.

............

hippy I do not see a problem with that. if an injector is clogged it WILL increase the pressure in the line. Its a means of detection that works. If the nozzle is clogged, and there ISNT a pressure increase.... then you are relieving pressure elsewhere and you have another problem altogether and a clogged nozzle is the least of your issues.

I understand it is not flow based like some I have seen. These are obviously a more robust option that tells you more... and thus they cost more. So there are other options... I understand that and so does CM.

To be honest I am surprised by your 'tone' / attitude. Its like the campaign comercials that just rag on the opponent..... so you sell something better?

hippy I do not see a problem with that. if an injector is clogged it WILL increase the pressure in the line...

The pressure won't necessarily increase since the system has a max pressure, and when running it might already be at that max pressure. Even if the system was running lower then max pressure before it got upto max pressure for one reason or another, running the max pressure of the system is nothing that people are warned about. This is why coolingmists pressure sensor tells you when the pressure is too low, not too high. A flow sensor can tell you when there's no flow going through the system. A pressure sensor cannot. There are places to get pressure sensors, and no I do not sell them. I'm not trying to sell you anything other then the truth(as I see it), and all it will cost you is a little time.

Someone in a recent thread said he got two flow sensors/switches for $25 off ebay. You can get a pressure sensor/switch for less then $20(that's less then $45 together). Coolingmist sells their "Clog Nozzle/Flow Detector"(quote from website) for $50. It was $70 before I posted on here that it was a pressure sensor/switch, and did not detect flow or if a nozzle was clogged.

peace

ok got it. I understand what you are saying. I have not seen pressure switches that low in price before, but I usually deal with transducers and switches direct with the company (like Transducers Direct). Thanks for trying to look out. The things you said will be noted. I understand your intentions now.

It seems a pressure gauge would also get you what you want. Flow is a function of pressure and I think a gauge would show you quite a bit too... I guess an LED is more obvious if something is wrong though.

I agree flow measurement might be ideal. I will look into my different options regarding safety..... and might tackle that on my own... but I still need info on the base systems.

CM - thanks for the details. Your newest distributor out in the New England states is promoting the product quite well over at legacygt.com

Snow - thanks for the quote via PM

The pressure won't necessarily increase since the system has a max pressure, and when running it might already be at that max pressure. Even if the system was running lower then max pressure before it got upto max pressure for one reason or another, running the max pressure of the system is nothing that people are warned about. This is why coolingmists pressure sensor tells you when the pressure is too low, not too high. A flow sensor can tell you when there's no flow going through the system. A pressure sensor cannot. There are places to get pressure sensors, and no I do not sell them. I'm not trying to sell you anything other then the truth(as I see it), and all it will cost you is a little time.

Someone in a recent thread said he got two flow sensors/switches for $25 off ebay. You can get a pressure sensor/switch for less then $20(that's less then $45 together). Coolingmist sells their "Clog Nozzle/Flow Detector"(quote from website) for $50. It was $70 before I posted on here that it was a pressure sensor/switch, and did not detect flow or if a nozzle was clogged.

peace

For the record, it was NOT $70 before you posted here. We used to sell 2 for $79.95, but discontinued that, had nothing to do with you. Good luck on getting 2 of ours for $25. The ones you get on ebay are plastic and will not handle the high pressure. Ours are made of solid brass and designed for high pressure.

For the record, our detectors are NOT designed to warn you if the flow is too low, they are NOT designed to tell you the flow is TOO HIGH. We never advertised that. They will do the 2 things we discussed in detail earlier.


I have seen you time after time bashing the company I work for. Our clog nozzle detectors work, PERIOD. They will light up when the system is flowing or NOT light up when they should be... and they will indicate a clog when installed correctly. Please get off your ego and let it go.

.....It seems a pressure gauge would also get you what you want. Flow is a function of pressure and I think a gauge would show you quite a bit too... I guess an LED is more obvious if something is wrong though.

I agree flow measurement might be ideal. I will look into my different options regarding safety..... and might tackle that on my own... but I still need info on the base systems........

Yes, a pressure gauge can show you a lot(not if the system is flowing), help tell you when some things are wrong(not a clogged nozzle, but some things) and/or diagnose a problem. A flow sensor/switch and pressure sensor/switch would help you better know if your system is working normally, and I thought that might have been what you wanted when you said clog detection. <explination>That's why I pointed out that coolingmist doesn't offer flow sensor/switches even though they make it seem like they do.

peace

My vote right now is still for CM.

Thanks hippy for your opinion.

Thanks CM for being up front, honest, and informative via PM. Like I said... I understand what I am getting with CM, and what they say is true. And that works for me.

CasopoliS ,

Our "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" will tell you if your system is clogged. its a simple set up and if your nozzle is clogged the system will tell you. We guarantee it or your money back.

My vote right now is still for CM.....

..Thanks CM for being up front, honest, and............what they say is true.......

Think about this. Not only do they lie, but they have you lying about them. It's like some kinda cult:).

peace

Is this pressure switch:
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/gfx/large/3460kc1l.gif

http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/gfx/large/3460kc1l.gif

similar to the one on the cooling mist site- it appears to work in the same way......

Repeatability: Not rated
• Pressure Sensing Element: Buna-N
diaphragm-sealed piston
• Single adjustable setpoint with fixed
deadband (see table)
• Electrical Switch: SPDT, 10 amps at 125/250 VAC
• Pressure Connection: 1/8" NPT male,
1/8" BSPP, or 1/8" BSPT brass
• Electrical Connection: 1/4" spade
• Temperature Range: Ambient and Process:
-40° to +250° F
• Maximum Pressure: 250 psi
• UL listed

You mean the one that sells for $19.80 and is adjustable between 20 and 120psi? Yes, that's probably the exact one coolingmist sells. Here's a screen shot I put in a thread about 2 months back (http://www.wrxhackers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=176&d=1153987584). Wish I took a screen shot of the price:).

Here's a link to mcmaster, and the part number for anyone who's interested(3460K15) (http://www.mcmaster.com/). Like I said, less then $20. It's little brothers(3460K11 and 3460K13) which have lower adjustable setpoints can be used to activate systems.

peace

FYI Ben,

That is not our switch. We used to use that one a few years ago. That is a company called NAISON. Its the generic version of the one we use. We switched to the better unit after having problems with that one. That is a very good price though and it will serve the same function.

We dont purchase anything from McMaster. We either design our own products and have them manufactured or go to the manufacturer directly for everything.

If anyone cares, the switch we use for the clog nozzle detector is from Transducers Direct.

David

I have already been quoted for a Coolingmist system with the varicool controller that is a very good quote, I am interested in all of my options though.

1 - I want clog detection and a check valve - safety valve
2 - I want to mount the tank in my engine bay or use my stock washer fluid tank
3 - I want it to ramp up when I get on boost (kick in at 9 psi, full injection at 16psi or something like that)
4 - I want low-level indicators

So, who on here wants to post their purchase 'experience' with a water/meth injection system. I am not on this forum much and to not interact with vendors here. I am pretty sure the vendor I got a quote from is also on this board. I want to give them my business... I am cool with them... but I also want to hear thoughts and pricing on other kits. Just something I like to do before spending my money.

Thank you in advance for any purchasing advice.

Oh FYI..
yes I am installing this on my own
yes I am getting it tuned (COBB AP)
I am stage II - uppipe, downpipe, stock TMIC, stock turbo, stock CBE
I plan to install the injector on the bottom side of my TMIC exit endtank facing up.

You have a huge amount of choices, you are looking for a 2-dimensional system where the flow is taged to a single variable such as boost, MAF etc. If Boost is your choosen variable, the system cease to increase flow beyond the wastegate setting as RPM continues to climb.

If you want to consider a setup with a 3-dimensional capabilities where the flow varies with RPM and boost. Aquiamist system is capable of do this.

FYI Ben,

That is not our switch. We used to use that one a few years ago. That is a company called NAISON. Its the generic version of the one we use. We switched to the better unit after having problems with that one. That is a very good price though and it will serve the same function.

We dont purchase anything from McMaster. We either design our own products and have them manufactured or go to the manufacturer directly for everything.

If anyone cares, the switch we use for the clog nozzle detector is from Transducers Direct.

David

............$19.80, and it doesn't detect if a nozzle is clogged.

peace

ha... Transducer's Direct calls me at least once a month because I got a quote from them on a project I ran last year. That and I talked with them at a trade show and they somehow got my office number. :confused:

I have seen and almost used their full lineup. Good products and they put R&D into them.

That being said, $50 is not bad for a Transducer's Direct pressure switch, retail is around $40 for a standard TD switch. They (coolingmist) make little money on this component in the grand scheme of things. Sure they probably pay less than $40 but who cares. They are a business. You want to make your own kit, make your own kit.

As far as 2-D vs 3-D... I just want to ramp mist as a funciton of boost (i.e. varicool controller). That would work for my needs. No RPM input or anything. To be perfectly honest I could design my own controller, I have the resources and skills to do so. But I don't want to spend the time and effort and would rather purchase a supported product.

ha... Transducer's Direct calls me at least once a month because I got a quote from them on a project I ran last year. That and I talked with them at a trade show and they somehow got my office number. :confused:

I have seen and almost used their full lineup. Good products and they put R&D into them.

That being said, $50 is not bad for a Transducer's Direct pressure switch, retail is around $40 for a standard TD switch. They (coolingmist) make little money on this component in the grand scheme of things. Sure they probably pay less than $40 but who cares. They are a business. You want to make your own kit, make your own kit.

As far as 2-D vs 3-D... I just want to ramp mist as a funciton of boost (i.e. varicool controller). That would work for my needs. No RPM input or anything. To be perfectly honest I could design my own controller, I have the resources and skills to do so. But I don't want to spend the time and effort.

Thanks again for your support.

We not only supply the switch, but we supply the T, quick disconnect fittings and the led for the CND.

About our "2d system"

The vari-cool controller has a boost input AND a 0-5 V input. With this you can run the system off Boost only like you want, but in addition you have the following choices as well (some require extra components). You can run using a true 2d MAP using boost as your primary input or your secondary and 1 choice from below.


MAF/TPS
Exhaust Gas Temps
Intake Temperatures
any device that gives a 0-5V linear feed.

And coming soon
Wideband correction.

Yea whatever WB I ever get will have a 0-5 output so I can plug that right in, do the math, and have it kick on or off at specific AFRs. So down the road this might prove to be handy.

......They (coolingmist) make little money on this component in the grand scheme of things.......

This is why they probably pay less then $19.80 for the sensor, not just less then $40.

...I just want to ramp mist as a funciton of boost (i.e. varicool controller). That would work for my needs.....

The snow performance controller would work for your needs and cost $100 less. They also sell a flow switch which would actually work as a clog nozzle detector. It can be baught with the $100 dollars you save.

peace

Hippy,
In your opinion, why does the Snow flow controller work in a manner you deem acceptable as a clogged nozzle detector?

Their flow controller doesn't. I was saying that their controller costs $100 less then coolingmists vari-cool controller, and it will effectively do the same thing with boost as an input.

Snows flow sensor/switch(which costs $100 and can be baught with the money saved on controller) will work as a clog nozzle detector because it detects if the flow is above a given level. If the nozzle gets clogged, or there's any other type of problem that causes less then the set flow, the flow switch will know about it. A pressure switch on the other hand will never know what kind of flow is actually going out of the nozzle. The pressure in the line can be fine, but the nozzle can still be clogged. Not saying that a pressure switch is a bad form of warning device, cause it can help people detect certain types of problems, and help them know how much liquid they might be flowing. It's just won't be able to detect if there's no flow because a nozzle is clogged. A flow sensor can.

peace

Just to add the Snow product is a flow switch. That is all. Flow switch is better I think just because it directly represents the liquid that is entering the nozzle. I am not sure how to figure out what level of flow becomes critical. Snows displays a light if under 0.1 GPM.

An $80 flow switch does the same thing, and can also switch power to a boost solenoid, ignition timer, etc.

Anyone can add a flow switch to their current system if they want. Its a tiny little thing too.

Just to add the Snow product is a flow switch. That is all. Flow switch is better I think just because it directly represents the liquid that is entering the nozzle. I am not sure how to figure out what level of flow becomes critical. Snows displays a light if under 0.1 GPM.

An $80 flow switch does the same thing, and can also switch power to a boost solenoid, ignition timer, etc.

Anyone can add a flow switch to their current system if they want. Its a tiny little thing too.


For a progressive system, a flow switch has limited ability to serve the entire flow range. A partial clogged nozzle or a weak pump can be tricky. It is however only good for a single stage system. Ideally you need two, one for clogged nozzle and the other for a severed hose. In keeping with the group appearance, have one detecting the mid point to coincide with a 50% pump duty cycle if the system is linear enough.

If one were to change nozzle or change boost, the fixed flow suitch has to be changed.

Gem system sells a flow switch for a mere 30 or so dollars, I think:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/FS3.jpg

Why not use a turbine sensor that is able to detect the whole range. It will save money in the long term.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/rfs.jpg




.

Here is a direct link to your soruce of low cost flow switch.

http://www.gemsensors.com/TOCResults.asp?nContentsID=77

Funny, I was just on Gem Sensors today. Looked at all of those.

Yeh, I was lookin last night:). The problem with the plastic ones is they aren't rated upto 150psi(from what I've heard). They would be fine for setups that run water(not sure about compatability with alc), don't run higher then 125psi(from what I remember that's the limit), and need to be placed in a not so warm place. Most of their other flow sensors don't detect low enough flow rates for our needs though, and the ones that do are pretty expensive. The snow performance one really is a pretty good deal at $100 given that it does what it claims(and I beleive it does).

I did see a turbine sensor/sensor like above for sale on ebay for $18 used. Not sure if it was functional, or a rip-off, or what, because I looked it up on the manufacturers site and it cost $178......

peace

A flow switch is about $85 for what we need. This is a really robust unit that is made of brass and handles up to 2000 psi. You can get it preset from the factory and can get 0.1 GPM, 0.5 GPM, 1 GPM ect.

A system is only as smart as the operator with LED indicating feedback.

.1gpm is 6gph. You'd need a nozzle bigger then an m9 to be able to use the full range of the nozzle without the flow sensor thinking something is wrong. That's why I said the sensors don't flow low enough for our needs(at least many of us, including me). Something like .05gpm would make it so you could almost use the full range(maybe 99.9%) of a 6gph nozzle without thinking something is wrong. This is cause the low flow on a 6gph nozzle(an m5...) is 3gph which is .05gpm, and running that flow might set off a sensor set for .05gpm.

Some sensing-switches are used to turn something off above a given flow, then on above a higher given flow(they basically have two trigger points). Like richard said, you could also get two trigger flow points with two flow sensor switches. By having a high and low flow detection(using one detector or two), someone would be able to make sure the flow is within a given window. A pressure-switch wouldn't be as useful with this setup for safety as it would be with one flow trigger point, but a gauge/sensor might be more useful for tuning, cause at least ya know the flow is within a certain range.

On the note of led feedback to the driver, I don't think it's as important as some kind of safety device being triggered. Here are a few that might be possible, and might get the drivers attention at the same time.

Fuel cut+injection cut
Ignition cut
solenoid that closes the throttle body(or opens wastegate, or....)...
turns off primary injection system and turns on secondary:)

peace

CasolpoliS,
Why not consider the DDS3 flow monitoring system that is capable of detecting flow between 100cc/min to 1000cc/min. (user scaleable), fully compatible with methanol or ethanoll. It comes with a 52mm dash guage. user definable upper and lower flow limits. Two switched outputs.

I suggest this after reading your first post, it appears that it fits your requirement pretty well.

Richard

CasolpoliS,
Why not consider the DDS3 flow monitoring system that is capable of detecting flow between 100cc/min to 1000cc/min. (user scaleable), fully compatible with methanol or ethanoll. It comes with a 52mm dash guage. user definable upper and lower flow limits. Two switched outputs.

I suggest this after reading your first post, it appears that it fits your requirement pretty well.

Richard

Never heard of it. Guess I will have to go searching.... got a link?

DDS3 image:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?p=3057461#post3057461
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1069914
User manual:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/press/DDS3-manual.pdf

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Richard

CasolpoliS,
Why not consider the DDS3 flow monitoring system that is capable of detecting flow between 100cc/min to 1000cc/min. (user scaleable), fully compatible with methanol or ethanoll. It comes with a 52mm dash guage. user definable upper and lower flow limits. Two switched outputs.

I suggest this after reading your first post, it appears that it fits your requirement pretty well.

Richard

^^^^ Agreed!!

We have installed several Aquamist DDS3's at the shop along with the Aquamist 2d system. It doesnt get any more full proof than that. The DDS3 guage shows the flow rate and will warn the user when the system is not functioning properly. It will also limit boost to wastegate pressure when it senses an error with the system. If it were me I would purchase the Aquamist system. If you are looking to run more than a 50/50 water/meth mix then wait a bit for Aquamist to release their new kits which are the same as the old kits but with a new pump which can handle running 100% meth. I believe there will be a drop in price as well.

-Matt

Imo aquamist stuff is very good quality, and well thought out. Only prob a lot of the time is the price. I mean, it seems like most companies are concerned with people thinking they got a good deal more then they're concerned about how functional their systems are while aquamist seems to care more about quality and function then if people think they're getting a good deal. In some ways this can be really good, and some not so good. Like if you don't want or use some of the options a certain system gives ya, paying for those options is basically a waste of money. Having them pay more for something that you might not normally because they think it's a good idea can also be bothersome when you're trying to get injection for a low cost.

Their new kit with the shurflo pump is said to cost less then their kits with their old pumps, and it might, but I really wouldn't know(not what I'm getting at anways). Their shurflo pumps us a 150w motor(as far as I know), unlike many companies which use a 100w pump to run 150psi. Imo this is another example of how they think more about function then cost, and could be good or bad depending on who's judging. I for one would rather have the 150w pump(even though I do have a 100w pump), course the 100w pump would probably cost them $20 less, and in turn cost the customer less on their kit. Same thing with the high speed valve. I have one, and it's nice, but not everyone would want to pay over $100(or $200 as the case may be) for a solenoid when they can make a system that works the way they want for less. It's all about knowing what you need, what you want, what stuff should cost, and what you want and/or are willing to spend for one reason or another. Yes, imo aquamist is great stuff, and they put a lot of care/thought into their packages/systems. Sometimes people don't need or want all that care and thought though, and end up paying for it. Being a little expensive really seems like the only downside of their kits though(other then not being able to run more then 50/50 as far as I know), and that's better then paying for something that you think does one thing when it doesn't.

Imo the new less expensive pump is a good first step. A choice between a 100 and 150 wat pump might be a good step, and a less expensive solenoid or pump controller package without the solenoid might be a nice step. The dds3 setup looks sweeeeeeeeeet, and it would be awesome with a 2d kit. Course I think that would cost over $1000 new. No matter what you get, it's always good to question what your getting and how it works. Like, does the dds3 come with a solenoid to limit boost, or do people have to buy them(I dunno the answer, just wonderin myself:) )? Just a little advice I guess, before you make the plunge.

peace

Snows flow sensor/switch(which costs $100 and can be baught with the money saved on controller) will work as a clog nozzle detector because it detects if the flow is above a given level. If the nozzle gets clogged, or there's any other type of problem that causes less then the set flow, the flow switch will know about it. A pressure switch on the other hand will never know what kind of flow is actually going out of the nozzle. The pressure in the line can be fine, but the nozzle can still be clogged. Not saying that a pressure switch is a bad form of warning device, cause it can help people detect certain types of problems, and help them know how much liquid they might be flowing. It's just won't be able to detect if there's no flow because a nozzle is clogged. A flow sensor can.

peace[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry I don't quite get why you say the coolingmist pressure switch won't detect the clogged nozzle, I agree a flow sensor may be better, but if as cmtech said when you let off the throttle and the pressure does not go down the led will stay lit, so you have a clogged nozzle, or the pump continued to run, what other reason could keep pressure in the system?

The idea of a warning device is so it warns you when something bad happens. Learning that there's a clogged nozzle after you let off the throttle is a little late. Yes, a pressure sensor can help determine if a nozzle is clogged, and that there is no flow after the system has been run then turns off, but that kinda defeats the purpose of a clog nozzle detector.

peace

Yes, I agree. It sounds better when you say it that way. Now moving on to the flow switch, as was said earlier, in a progressive system flow goes up with pressure so having just a flow meter isn't telling you a whole lot unless you have a complete blockage or pretty darn close. Does anybody make anything that will read pump pressure and system flow and calculate it and maybe give you a reading as a percentage of what flow should be for the given pressure? Maybe I am just being to cautious.

You can use a electronic comparator to read water pressure against flow, but you will end up with two progressive sensors. Full time tracking is not going to be simple especially there is checkvalve involved, manifold pressure fluctuation and irrregular water pressure pulses produced by pump speed controlled systems.

Aquamist (should stop using this word soon - high cost implied) offers a system that tracks the duty cycle of the water and compares it with the duty cycle of the inline valve. If the two curves deviate outside a preset limit from each other, it will flag out a fault. This kind of diagniostic function is incorporated as standard in the system2d and system2s - no need to purchase a separate failsafe mechanism.

As Hippy pointed out, there is little goes against the aquamist product except cost. All aquamist system can run 100% methanol from the outset but we refused to declare it due to the health and safety risk in this kind of (very exciting) afternmarket industry. Some effort has been done with the help from Shurflo to keep the cost down (some raw materials for the aquamist component has risen two-fold in the past 8 months); Poor Dollar/British pound exchange rate also means the aquamist system is tagged with a 36% rise!!! Shurflo has managed to produce a pump suitable for our use at a reasonable cost (extremely nice people). Like all busineses, if the demand grows, the cost of the pump will go down, discount will be passed on. This is our first attempt to reduce cost without compromising reliability, so we bundle a DDS3 system to every Shurflo based system. It will soon be available.

Hydramist (Element tuning) is one such example. At present, they are offering it at ? (checkup yourself). Their NASIOC forum is only a few click away from here.

High standard was set right in the very beginning when the WRC operator demanded a pump weighs no more than 1 kilo (aquamist pump weighs 850g), ability to supply 7 bar of pressure instantly. We set out to meet that demand and developed the Aquamist pump based system along side the high speed valve. The aquamist system has been used by all teams (except the French teams) from 1993 to 2003. A few teams started to develop their own after that year. Subaru WRC + two other continued using it until it was banned this year by FIA.

A 200 dollar difference on a good failsafe setup only cost you 6c per day for the first year only. Expense of having your engine rebuild should fully justify the extra start-up cost. Most people just assume evey failsafe is the same.

Ever wonder why the cost-led motor industry never uses a pump speed controlled fuel injection system?

.....flow meter isn't telling you a whole lot unless you have a complete blockage or pretty darn close. Does anybody make anything that will read pump pressure and system flow and calculate it and maybe give you a reading as a percentage of what flow should be for the given pressure? Maybe I am just being to cautious.

Not true. If your flow sensor is set for under your lowest flow, it will detect when there's a partial clog because at low flow the sensor would get tripped. Imagine an aquamist nozzle changing from a 1mm hole to a .5. The flow is gonna change. You do make sense though. A pressure sensor would help ya with detecting that the problem is a clogged nozzle, but the flow sensor would tell ya that it's something that is making the system flow less then it should. Maybe only at low flow though, which many people never really notice or even use.

Yes, you could probably make a monitor that referenced flow, and pressure, and decided weather they were all within an acceptable range for the boost(or whatever), and have it switch something on when they aren't. It would probably be pretty sweet too. My point was more that a pressure sensor doesn't act as a flow or clog nozzle detector, because it doesn't detect either while the system is running. Like richard said, it's probably good to get what you want the first time......

peace

Hippy, do you ever sleep?

I have a plot that will clarify this part of discussion. Ignore the non-linearity of the ramp.

You can see quite clearly the initial flow between the jets has little difference. Regard the 0.4mm jet as a clogged 1mm jet if you like. a single stage flow switch will not be able to detect a partial clogged jet reliably.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/pwm vs flow.gif

So how can I get accurate Aquamist pricing? Stuff looks terrific.

You can go the the "Supplier listing" link from the link below:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk

CasopoliS,

Correction, the DDS3 is not yet put up on the Catalogue. But if you contact any one of the reseller on the right, they will give you an accurate pricing.

Hippy,

The DDS3 is quite competitive because it comes with a 52mm Dash gauge with many useful user configurable "failsafe" setting. Don't forget it comes with a flow sensor with inbuilt microchip to linearise the turbine speed to 0-5V output. I believe a simple commercial pulsed-only flow sensor costs in the region of 150-180 dollars. The complete DDS3 system is less than a 100 dollars above that.



http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/FS.jpg

very professional looking products and engineering

if the dash display system works on any setup, they alone are worth the price.

I saw something like $225 USD for one of these? For a flow sensor and bar-readout that is a good price. That is the DDS2 though, not the 3.

if the dash display system works on any setup, they alone are worth the price.

I saw something like $225 USD for one of these? For a flow sensor and bar-readout that is a good price. That is the DDS2 though, not the 3.

The DDS3 replaces the DDS2. DDS2 is no longer in production. I believe the DDS3 is 50 dollars more. The entire gauge is CNC machined from solid aluminmum and no pressed parts, even the tightening bracket is CNC machined, compared to the DDS2, in a plastic box.

The DDS3 can be used for any alcohol (100%) and water, it can be used for any WIA system (99%).

Gauge pod is not included:


Richard

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/DDS3-2.jpg

Just a reminder to everyone, don't think the vendors are being difficult about not directly posting prices. They are not allowed to post pricing in any forum other than the classifieds.

yap, I am not sure if I am allow to add or substract something that is already there.

It is very difficult to post a accurate price directly.

Richard

The dds2 is $193 on a wrx website I checked, and the dds3 is $269. Another vendor sells the dss2 for $210, but the dss3 for the same price. Kinda makes me think the $193 is an ok deal. Both setups seem really nice....

peace

Thank you hippy, so difficult to post prices here...

Thank you hippy, so difficult to post prices here...

But it keeps the tech forums free of all the "Where is the best DEALZ?!?!??" posts. :)

[hijack]

As an aside I think the WI forum is the best one on the site due to vendor involvement and the technical information posted by the regulars. I don't run WI but I read in here everyday as there is usually something to learn. :)

So thanks to the core people who contribute.

[/end hijack]

I agree, when prices are posted, it looses the main issues very quickly.

Thanks for clarifying this.

The DDS3 is a good deal for what you get. For sure. There is no doubt about that. I might add this to my system.

But it keeps the tech forums free of all the "Where is the best DEALZ?!?!??" posts. :)

[hijack]

As an aside I think the WI forum is the best one on the site due to vendor involvement and the technical information posted by the regulars. I don't run WI but I read in here everyday as there is usually something to learn. :)

So thanks to the core people who contribute.

[/end hijack]

Agreed. I have learned a LOT from a few of the guys in/around the WI forum. It's just really refreshing to hear guys talk about ultimate truths....what's best?...what's best for the application?....what's best for the easiest tuning?..etc, etc.
Thanks again guys!

If anyone has any further questions on the snow kits failsafe let me know, I just saw this thread but it seems most questions were answered...