OK... I need everyone here that has a new WRX that is having this tranny issue to e-mail me. I am going to go to my regional Subaru rep this month. I had to wait for a month and a half for her to drive my car because the mechanics assesment of the situation wasn't good enough for Subaru Tech. Crap I tell you, well please send me and e-mail if you are experiencing the same trouble as many of us are send and e-mail to Nick@WRXTuner.com I would like to take as many cases of this problem with me if you can include the last 8 digits of your VIN that would be great as well this way they may actually contact you about the problem if they can't resolve it after 3 tries they have to lemon law the car... or if I get my way...our way... I want the STI 6 speed gear box. You see it would be cheaper for them to replace the tranny with the 6 speed then to give me every penny I paid for the car including interest. Just some food for thought. Send me an e-mail so we can fight this thing together maybe we can get a resolution.

Nick

Nick,

Out of curiousity, it this your first Subaru?

Ed

What is the problem?

hey...yeah, this is quite obviously your first Subaru. It's normal!!!! They all do this!!

ugh, sorry, had to say it, because there have been way too many complaints on this. You have NO argument. Why waste your time?

Hi,

Just out of curiousity, is the 2nd to 1st downshift issue limited to people who practice dropping the clutch at high revs and stuff like that, or there any gentle drivers with the same problem?
For the record, my WRX is at 3400 miles and can downshift to 1st without a problem.

What I'd like to know is at what mileage did people begin having problems? If anything, my car is loosening up nicely in all areas (not just transmission) and is running better than when it was new, hence my curiousity.

David

Why would you ever downshift to first? Are you trying for a fater time out of the hairpin at Long Beach?

Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but do any of you "non down-shifters" live in a hilly area and drive in rush hour traffic. The WRX tranny is geared very low in first with a wide split into second. In stop and go traffic, especially going up hills, it is really impractical to stop or almost stop to shift down into first gear. Doing this would assure some semi trailer would have a blue Subaru hood ornament on its grill.
The big problem is the spacing of gear ratios ... wind out first gear to 4K and you are barely into second gear enough to keep from stalling on a hill. (I think the 5-MT started life as a 6-MT with the cost accountants removing the real second gear to save a few yen.!) :D

The wide gear spacing and the way the input shaft drives the low gear synchros is the source of the problem. It would be nice of SOA if they would give us credit for our faulty 5-MT's in trade for a 6-MT). Personally, I'd feel a whole lot better about the whole situation!
:lol:

For the past 16 years driving a MT, I've never downshifted from 2nd to 1st in normal driving or even open highway sprinting.

Living in the city of hills, I still don't downshift from 2nd to 1st. I go from 2nd to neutral to 1st. Don't use the ebrake either. Learned from the start to be fast off the clutch. In fact, I thought it was a no-no to downshift into 1st from 2nd.

6500+ miles driving with this philosophy and the tranny and shifting remains stable and smooth (even better with the Kartboy and bushings!).



:confused:

Just because "they all do this" or "its normal" or you personally dont find the need to shift from second to first, doesnt mean there is not a design flaw or a problem that could be rendered. Every other car I have driven must have some magical technology in it that allows the driver to go into first from second at 10-15mph that my WRX does not. How come every other car company has figured this out and Subaru hasn't? Because our transmissions are weak and outdated, and should not be included in a car meant for performance? If the tranny in a stock car can not handle occasional hard driving (not clutch dumps mind you, but simply spirited driving) then why put it in the car.

I have already had my tranny replaced once, because REVERSE gear blew while I was backing out of my driveway. Not going fast, simply backing out of my driveway. This is inexcusable, and thank god has not happened again. I dont abuse my (completly stock)car, and yet I still will not be suprised if something else goes wrong, let alone the inability to shift from 2nd to 1st at a reasonable 10-15 mph.

Rick

but what you are missing is that it's NOT a design flaw...and it's NOT a problem with YOUR particular car. They were built to be like this. If you don't like it...then maybe you shouldn't have bought a Subaru.

Subies have always been niche cars, they cater to only a certain few... The coming over of the WRX has shown the reasons why it is this way.

JGard18,
I believe the car is advertised as having a 5 speed synchromeshed transmission. That means the average driver should be able to shift up and down through the gears at speeds normal for the gear selected without having to know about rev matching or double clutching. The car wasn't sold as having a 5 speed with synchros only on gears 2-5.

The dealership here in Tallahasee Fl. replaced my transmission's 1st and 2nd gear synchos when I brought it in with a grinding problem while shifting to 1st from 2nd at any speed. They didn't tell me the transmission was designed to make grinding noises when attempting to downshift into first at anything more than a roll.

If Subaru set out to design a 5 speed synchromeshed transmission they have suceeded. However, they didn't quite make their transmission bullet proof. The transmission does its job in a 'so so' fasion if you ask me. It's not especially smooth, nor does it have great 'feel'. I've had better shifting experiences in both Hondas (I know everyone here hates Hondas) and Mazdas. I'm not going to bash the tranny in the Suby cause it get's the job done. I will go as far as calling it the weak link in an otherwise awesome car. I think Subaru should take note of this and get a better tranny in their newer cars as they come to market.

And JGard18, here's one of the definitions of Niche:
"A special area of demand for a product or service". I don't think Subaru is attempting to corner the market on bulky shifting (or not shifting in some cases) transmissions. If Subarus have always had poorly designed transmissions that don't like shifting to first maybe it's time they fix the problem. By stating they are all this way you are admitting it's a problem. No one would design such an annoyance into a product.

I can engage 1st gear at 20 mph... haven't let off the clutch to see what happens, but it does go into gear. My car is brand new though... only 400 miles. I do know that Subaru has a limiter on downshifting into 1st, but you guys seem to be having trouble even doing 10 mph.

if it's constantly grinding on you, that could be a problem. but they have designed these cars so that they don't shift into first going much more than 5-10mph.

as many have said before "this is obviously your first Subaru".

and as I meant to say, but you seemed to have to take it word for word, but whatever. Subaru's are not for everyone. They don't make many cars, and don't sell many cars. The people that DO buy them, love them, and that's that. They accept them for what they are, and are content. They don't compare it to the Civic or Accord they just sold, and think all of a sudden something is wrong.

I'm just trying to tell you people...don't get your hopes up about getting the 6-speed tranny in the car as a warranty replacement. I can tell you know it won't happen, and if it does, you can come to my house and kick me in the balls or something :)

if it's constantly grinding on you, that could be a problem. but they have designed these cars so that they don't shift into first going much more than 5-10mph.

hooey... I can put my wrx into first at about 22 mph..

If I go into second and take it to 40 and put the clutch in and gently try to put it in first.. (even gentle pressure) it will not pop in until the speed drops to 20-22 mph..

I have not let out the clutch at this speed but it will go in..

I believe you cannot just slam it into 1st gear even at 10 mph you have to put gentle pressure on for about 1 - 1.5 seconds before it slips in.. this was the same as my eagle talon awd and I belive this is by design...

I think I'll wreck my tranny and try to get a 6 MT gearbox so I can have a shot at kicking jgard in the balls.;)

My WRX is the third Subaru I've owned (including a '98 and a '99 RS). I downshift into first at maybe 10MPH on a regular basis. The car has over 12,000mi on it, and never a problem. Yes, 1st gear is important here in Seattle. I've done this on all of my Sube's and never once had an issue... I can downshift into 1st at 20MPH after double-clutching, and it slides into gear easily.

I do no abuse my transmission -- I never do a drop-clutch launch; I will always ride the clutch slightly in first so as to save the gears (besides, building boost is important).

Rule #1. NEVER FORCE THE CAR INTO GEAR.
Rule #2. DON'T DROP THE CLUTCH.
Rule #3. IF YOU IGNORE THE ABOVE, DON'T B17CH WHEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

If you have a problem and you're treating the car right, well then, that's an issue. Unfortunately, when dealing with complex mechanicals, one must first rule out user error.

gi.

There is no lockout device built into your tranny. If it is functioning properly you should be able to shift down into first at any rpm in its range w/o double cluthing.

There is no lockout device to prevent your tranny from shifting into first gear at any speed in its rpm range while your car is moving.

They do *not* all do this. I now have TWO subarus in my driveway that do not do this. BOTH of those subarus can downshift into first while moving, because they both have functioning first gear synchros.

And, yes, shifting into first while moving is generally not a good idea and does cause synchro ring tooth wear. If you have to shift into first while moving, double clutch.

Once again, there is no lockout device that prevents the car from downshifting into first. Read the manual. If you can find it (in the MY01 manual or the MY02 manual) then you can come to my house and kick me in the nuts. One interesting thing you might come across in the manual, though, is the claim that your new Subaru has a fully synchromeshed transmission...

Originally posted by NIN2001
contact you about the problem if they can't resolve it after 3 tries they have to lemon law the car...
Nick


:lol: Yeah good luck with that one....I'm on my way to the dealership for the fourth time for a CEL. All supposedly caused by the same issue.

Oh the lemon law? Well they'll work on it at least 8 times before even mentioning that. Don't like it? Well then spend the thousands of dollars and take them to court. :rolleyes:

My concern, as I have posted on another thread about this same subject, is the fact that so many tranny's are having this problem, but there are also a lot that are not. Therefore, this means there is some sort of failure rate. X have the problem, Y dont , therefore X/(X+Y) and you get the failure rate (which in this case is very high). So, what does everyone who says "they're suposed to do this" or "this must be your first subaru" have to say to this.

Obviously for some people this is not a problem, and obviously there is not logical reason for subaru to design the transmission to not go into first at these speeds. Also, there is not lockout device. So, because there is in fact a failure rate (read: people with and without the problem) , and no logical reason for this to be happening, that constitutes a problem.

Rick

yea, I tend to agree with the above statements. WHY !?!? would you downshift into first. Most cars do have a lot of resistance when you try to do that...because you're not supposed to! The only time you should go back into first is near or at a stop...not to slow your car down or get your revs up.
I live in Los Angeles, sometimes drive from LA to Palm Springs on firday nights (tons of traffic) and San Diego to LA same thing. But no downshifting!!! If they can prove you're doing that..you're gonna be paying after awhile. NO lemon law!

By the way...you get interest on your money back if your car's a lemon? I'm from cali...so the same 3 times applies...but no interest. You get your money back, or the same car again. I don't think they'll swap trannies, cuz that doesn't work with inventory...but you might as well try I guess.
Just make sure you don't downshif in that one too!
Sarah

my WRX is my FIRST manual tranny car, i learned on it, i race around with it, never a problem i never grind anything or jerk it...

i dont see what the problem is... the only thing that troubled me was that i didnt know that if im in 5th and floor it i wont go anywere but now i know to downshift to pass cars...:D

but i would like to try a 6 speed..

Originally posted by PrezzieBaby
WHY !?!? would you downshift into first.Who cares why! Some people do, some people don't, but that's not the point...

The point is that ALL of these cars are sold w/a fully synchromeshed transmission, and ALL of these cars should have a functioning first gear synchro.

Damn Austin, that was just a question.
These cars can have issues just like any other.
Sarah

Yes this is my first Subaru that I have owned... it is also about my 15th car that I have owned. Out of those 15 cars about half were manual transmissions, I hear you saying that’s the way they are, well, I hate to say it, BUT YOUR WRONG! When I first drove the car I was able to down shift the car ( when I say down shift I mean when I am coming up to a light and it's red I take the car out of gear and coast to the light with my foot lightly on the brake to come to a smooth stop... Oh look at that the light just turned green, Dilemma... :eek: I am only going 10 mph if I put it into 2nd the car that is behind me that is going faster then me might rear end me :confused: whatever should I do, I put my car into first and step on the gas. ) Now with over 11,000 miles I can down shift or put the car into first at 10-15mph but it grinds. In the beginning it sounded like every other manual transmission, the familiar whine of the syncros speeding up the gears to match the RPM to keep the car from grinding, Now it's gone... WHY? you ask... CAUSE THE FREAKIN SYNCROS ARE TOAST!!

This is a problem, some of you have just learned to accept it because you either have no choice because Subaru has told you it's normal... well, as a car enthusiast from a generation of many car enthusiasts this is not a normal occurrence on any vehicle on the planet accept for Subaru and if that means that they are building an inferior product then ya know what... they should fix it.


Just so I don't get someone who want's to be a wise ass and say "there are cars on the planet that grind going into first gear for whatever reason" I want to be the first to say "Your right" although those vehicles are not production model cars available in the US. Transmissions with few or no syncros are available as well as the gears to replace your originals with limited or no syncros. But remember we are talking about a STOCK off the showroom floor car that everyone can buy.

I'm back in a '93 Legacy with the same gear ratios as a WRX, final drive is 4.11.

No problems starting from 2nd or acceleraing from 5 or 10 mph in 2nd.

I was told that 2nd to 1st is a no-no by a dealer.

Roger

CAUSE THE FREAKIN SYNCROS ARE TOAST!!

Were you rev matching when shifting into first and moving?
I already know you're going to say: "I shouldn't have to rev match with a syncromesh transmission." But I am here to tell you that you should do it anyway if you want your first gear syncro to last.:rolleyes:

wind out first gear to 4K and you are barely into second gear enough to keep from stalling on a hill.
Sorry dude, but that is ridiculous unless you are taking 5+ seconds to get it into second gear and gravity has slowed your car down below 10 miles an hour...

I have 8,500 miles on my car and occasionally will downshift to first from second at 10-15mph when entering a parking lot or going up a hill in traffic. I won't sit here and type that you guys don't have a problem, but I don't and if I did I sure wouldn't expect an upgraded tranny.

Originally posted by Stanley
Were you rev matching when shifting into first and moving?
I already know you're going to say: "I shouldn't have to rev match with a syncromesh transmission." But I am here to tell you that you should do it anyway if you want your first gear syncro to last.:rolleyes:Rev matching does nothing to help the synchro. You must double clutch to spin the first driven gear and reduce synchro wear.

Rev matching will make for a smoother transition when releasing the clutch, but won't help synchro wear.

Rev matching does nothing to help the synchro. You must double clutch to spin the first driven gear and reduce synchro wear.

OK, let's see whose transmission lasts longer.:rolleyes:

If you are not getting satisfaction from your dealer, take it to an independent mechanic you trust. If he thinks there is a problem, document his opinion and pursue SOA. If he thinks you need some practice shifting into first, take his advice. I can't tell you if you have a problem or not sitting here at my computer, but I can tell you that rev matching for downshifts into first gear is absolutely necessary in a manual transmission.
I was able to do it in my Nissan without using the clutch...no syncro action involved there, eh?

I'm out.

First, add my name to the list of those who can't downshift to first without double clutching. I've got less than 3000 miles on my car, and this just started being a problem in the past week. I haven't complained to the dealer yet.

Originally posted by Stanley


If you are not getting satisfaction from your dealer, take it to an independent mechanic you trust. If he thinks there is a problem, document his opinion and pursue SOA. If he thinks you need some practice shifting into first, take his advice. I can't tell you if you have a problem or not sitting here at my computer, but I can tell you that rev matching for downshifts into first gear is absolutely necessary in a manual transmission.
I was able to do it in my Nissan without using the clutch...no syncro action involved there, eh?


Rev matching is unnecessary when downshifting into first, as is double clutching--with properly functioning synchros.

I've got ~300k under my belt on two manual transmission vehicles, and I never had synchro trouble or needed to double clutch to downshift into first.

If you're not having problems, consider yourself lucky, but don't assume it's due to your superior technique.

-Dave

First off, I want to say that I think my car is operating as intended - I can shift into first without revmatching, it does take time but it does happen. However, I was driving around today trying to listen for noises in the engine, and was finally able to get a grinding in first gear (not intentionally, mind you) :)

Instructions:
1.drive in 1st gear ~20mph.
2.Clutch in, pull out of first, but not quite into neutral.
3.try first again, grind gear.

The first couple times I did this, I immediately tried to rev match, which did nothing. Here is what I figured out (I think):

In terms of notches in the gear selection, there is neutral, first gear and a space in the middle. When the syncros have to match speeds, they do thier work when you shift into the middle space. Then speeds are matched and you shift into first.
When you pull out of first, until you've gone all the way into neutral, the syncros don't reengage to keep first gear matched. Pull all the way into neutral try first again, and get syncromesh. Why it happens this way, I don't know. Don't have a transmission available to tear apart ad figure it out.

I suppose my next step should be to try this with second or third gear. If I get the same result, it is design intent, if different, I'll take it to the dealer.

Yes, all manuals are different. I remember driving trucks, and having to listen to the synchros while they spooled up. I just got the chance to drive a BMW 528, and it went into first without effort. I couldn't distinctly feel the synchro the spool was so fast.

I am dropping off my WRX on Monday to get the trany fixed. Just so everybody knows it is not supposed to do what I have been telling you it is. For those of you who have a WRX if you read the manual and go to section 7 page 11 it says that you can and should shift up or down at 15 MPH this came directly from Subaru. This was what I was told by the service manager here in Orlando. So I promptly brought in the car and said "well thats great, cause I cant shift at 5 MPH from 2nd to 1st without it grinding". He test drove the car and sure enough he said "that's not right, when can you leave the car with us for 2 to 3 weeks". YAY! I don't have my car for 2 to 3 weeks :(

I guess it's good that they finally realized that there is a problem.

So if you are having the same problem described in this post, it's not a Subaru normality it is a defect and if this is common throughout all Subaru's then I think we should all get together and get new trany's.

If you still want to think this is normal then go ahead no skin off my teeth. But realize this whoever told you that is was normal for your transmission to grind going into gear at a reasonable speed that the gear was designed to operate in LIED TO YOU!!!!

Please keep the e-mails comming I am compiling a list and passing it on to Subaru as they come in and they are very happy to recieve them so that this can be documented don't be supprised if you get a recall letter soon.

Nick

Nick,
You know to add me on the list right? :D I'll e-mail you with the vin info and stuff. Whoo hoo, maybe I'll get a third tranny :rolleyes:

Rick

Originally posted by NIN2001
So if you are having the same problem described in this post, it's not a Subaru normality it is a defect and if this is common throughout all Subaru's then I think we should all get together and get new trany's.Nick There's a good chance you'll get your tranny repaired under warranty, but if you think SOA is going to dole out new trannsmissions to anyone with a first gear synchro problem, you're chasing a rainbow. IMHO

Originally posted by NIN2001
"well thats great, cause I cant shift at 5 MPH from 2nd to 1st without it grinding".

Well, your car grinds going into first, thats a little different than the people who are saying that the car won't go into first above 5mph but it doesn't grind at all when shifting into first under 5mph.

Originally posted by SoLo OnE


Well, your car grinds going into first, thats a little different than the people who are saying that the car won't go into first above 5mph but it doesn't grind at all when shifting into first under 5mph.

Actually... the car has trouble going into first at almost any speed within the Subaru recomended guide lines this includes speeds under even 5 MPH. As I said in an earlier post "In your WRX manual the thick one, Section 7 page 11 tells you the proper operating speed of the manual gear box as even pointed out to me by Subaru technical support, and the cars are supposed to shift up or down into first starting at 15 MPH". If anyone is having the problem of not being able to shift into first at all e-mail me about this as well I am sure this is a related issue after all it is still a shifting problem.

Please remember to include the last 8 digits of the VIN and a detailed description.

For those of you not content to actually listen to the drible handed out by the dealers and Subaru tech I and many others thank you.

On another note, not related to the WRX issue anyone who has an impreza that is still under warranty and is experiencing the same problem with the trany as well as other model Subaru's please let me know as well. The information provided to Subaru may fix this for past present and future Subaru owners and make the owning of a Subaru that much better.

Just to make a note I think some of you don't realize I LOVE MY CAR!!! And for those of you who may think I am just some newbie kid that hasn't clue. I am a 30+ year old business owner and car buff I am currently working on http://www.SubaruTuner.com:8080 and http://www.WRXTuner.com:8080

This may be my first Subaru and I may have only had it a short while, but I'm in love and am going to work hard to provide all Die hard Subaru owners with a place to go to exclusively get Subaru parts and accessories.

Thanks again,
Nick

Nick@WRXTuner.com

I agree with Nick. My WRX has started grinding 1st gear at any speed above zero. I have about 6000 miles on it, and it started about 500 miles ago and has progressively gotten worse. Anyone that thinks "grinding metal" is normal is crazy. I feel sorry for anyone that has had to deal with this their whole life becuause they were so hip to buy Subaru's since they were born.

Ok, I got my baby back after about a week and a half in the shop. Well I will say this, Allen my service tech at Subaru was shocked as was I when not even the slightest bit of metal was found in the tranny and the gears were all in tact!! Apperently and this is all speculation because Subaru won't actually admit this or fix this unless you complain and won't listen to "this is normal" or "All Subaru's do this" Allen my awesome service tech and Bill my awesome service manager who is also an ASE Master Technician both said in dealing with Subaru tech over the phone they were very secretive about the tranny issue. Bill said "I hate all this secrecy just tell us what's wrong then we'll fix it". Once the new gears and syncros came in guess what same part # different part in the box!! Subaru has change the part as was apparent. So now my tranny shifts AWESOME no grinding at all (Yet).

I had to plug the guys at Bill Bryan Subaru they actually went to bat for me and stood up for what was right if you plead your case firmly, sincerely and calmly to your dealer I don't doubt they will do the same for you.

I say yet because I don't know if it will last I hope it does and want it too, I just hope that this fix by Subaru is permanent one and was thought out and engineered correctly.

I would still like everyone with a problem to e-mail me with the last 8 of there VIN # and the problem they are having in detail I am still passing this on to Subaru if you go to your dealer and have the same problem I had in the begining let me know and I will see who I can contact to help.

Also just so everyone understands the Lemon Law, your car needs to break 3 times and be in the shop for at least 2 weeks total before you can Lemon law it. I don't want to, as I have said in the past, and I don't want to have to go through the head ache of trying to get a six speed but would if this continues to be an issue.

Keep the e-mails comming I have compiled about 20 cases so far of the same thing, and counting.

Nick :cool:

Nick@WRXTuner.com

So you're saying the grinding didn't hurt the transmission? Can any of the early model Subie owners confirm or deny this--by which I mean has anyone with this problem run up 150k+ miles on their original transmission?

For all the people who are calling this "normal" for Subarus, do you mean the grinding isn't doing anything bad or that all Subaru owners are expected to rev-match/double clutch everywhere?

If this really is a harmless quirk I might be able to live with it but the grinding sounds like *damage* to me. With my luck this will translate into a complete tranny rebuild at 15 feet past 30k miles. That prospect does put a crimp in my otherwise high pride of ownership.

Kapwi

btw...my car grinds into first gear from a stop maybe 5-10% of the time. And yes, the clutch is in. It doesn't happen often enough to be reliably reproducable but it does happen often enough to be really annoying. Maybe Nick's crusade will get a TSB out so I don't have to keep trying to convince people that it's not all in my head.

Originally posted by PrezzieBaby
WHY !?!? would you downshift into first. Most cars do have a lot of resistance when you try to do that...because you're not supposed to!

I know someone said who cares...and I agree...but I'm still going to answer the "why" question...

I know you're in CA...but I live in Ithaca, NY...The city is built on the side of a hill - a very steep hill. Try coming up said hill and making a left hand turn onto an even steeper hill in second gear. Good luck getting up the hill without lugging your engine to death.

That is why you need to downshift into first. Yes, the Subaru tranny takes some gentle coaxing to moving into first, but it is often necessary.

And, I cannot find it in my owners manual where it says "don't downshift into first." It says that I shouldn't skip gears when downshifting, or downshift at high revs...nothing about first gear being bad.

Originally posted by AaronBBrown
And, I cannot find it in my owners manual where it says "don't downshift into first." Because it doesn't say *anywhere* in the owners manual not to downshift into first. If anyone on this board tells you to "read the owners manual" or "learn your car" ask them what page on the owners manual it says not to downshift into first... shuts 'em up every time.

***, It gets tiring sometimes seeing the same recurring threads that lead to griping about the WRX trannies. It appears some people complaining have never owned Subaru's before and view the WRX as a $50K sport sedan like a M3 BMW. Guess what? It's not! The built quality and smoothness of this car was never meant to rival the high end sport sedans. There is a reason why the car cost $25K or so. Even still the perfomance for the buck offered by the WRX is great when compared to it's competitors. Fact of the matter is a lot of these complaints would be swept under the rug if this car were a 2002 RS. I noticed that most people reporting problems have WRX's and not RS's. It would be logical to assume horsepower has nothing to do with the down shift problem and if it would be poorly designed syncos one would think a lot more Subaru's would be affected. Also, don't forget that the WRX has been selling in Europe and Japan for years before coming here and with the following they have achieved, Subaru can't be building a piece of junk. As far as getting replacement STI 6 speed trannies get real!!!!!

Just had to vent, this subject and the WRX vs. anything with 4 wheels (or sometimes 2) are really getting annoying and degrade into nothing but insult matches.

Sorry if I offended anyone.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Keith99RS
***, It gets tiring sometimes seeing the same recurring threads that lead to griping about the WRX trannies.Then don't read them. If your tranny is good, ****.

Originally posted by Keith99RS
I noticed that most people reporting problems have WRX's and not RS's.*clears throat*

Originally posted by Keith99RS
Subaru can't be building a piece of junk.Where's that 'I believe' button? I want to push it too.

At 5k miles, I have yet to grind my tranny. However, I can't get into 1st at anything faster than a full stop unless I double clutch. Should I take it in to fix it? To be honest, it doesn't bother me all that much now that I've gotten used to it. But, I don't want to be stuck with a bum tranny.

Originally posted by no_rex_yet
Should I take it in to fix it?Yes. Why? Because you paid for a warranty on your new fully synchromeshed transmission and it's not operating like a synchromeshed transmission should. Your tranny is operating like a tranny with no first gear synchro, which is not what you bought.

As for the whole tranny being bum... it's not. They're fine units, just need a little TLC on the first gear synchro.

and view the WRX as a $50K sport sedan like a M3 BMW

Well, I can't speak for the M3, but I have a good friend who owns both a M6 and a M5. You cannot shift into first on either of those cars when moving unless you rev match...sorry Austin, that's just the way it works.

Allow myself to quote... myself.
Originally posted by Austin
They do *not* all do this. I now have TWO subarus in my driveway that do not do this. BOTH of those subarus can downshift into first while moving, because they both have functioning first gear synchros.

I understand that a lot of you are loyal Scoobie owners, I am now as well and LOVE MY CAR!!! I don't think I can stress this more. I have had people that own 2.5 RS' and they say it's normal... why... Because the dealer told them so and or thier friend said "Mine does it and so does thier's and the dealer said" I just want to have a car that works the way it's supposed to.

For the person who seems to think that I am comparing my car to a BMW I'm not I own one of those too, it's older but I can down shift it, it's a 320is 4cyl turbo as well.

I would, and have asked that anyone with a 2.5RS with the same problem e-mail me as well because with all the people that are having this argument that it's normal may have the same design flaw as us WRX owners.

Please read my post prior to this one it will explain what was done.

And I did baby my car after it started grinding, so the damage was minimal and as I reported almost not existant.

I am attaching the dealer warranty paper work that I was given to show what was done so you can show your dealer as well.

I am not sure but I think I said this before a quote from the service manager (Bill) at Bill Bryan Subaru said "This thing now shifts smoother than the new one's on the lot" I have to agree it is better then when it was new. It is soooo smooth now and I can even put the car in 1st and everything at reasonable speeds.

Just a note the car will go into gear at 25 to 30 MPH and so you know NO I DIDN'T LET OUT THE CLUTCH! just wanted to see what the limitation was for down shifting to first and NO I DIDN'T HAVE TO FORCE IT INTO GEAR!

Sorry bout the yelling just wanted that to stand out so those who wish to tell me that it's not supposed to do that DON'T! :D

Keep the e-mails coming!

Nick

Nick@WRXTuner.com

http://www.WRXTuner.com/Warranty/warranty.jpg

I have wrx and i only downshift in to first while creeping downhill at like 5mph to keep the car from rolling fast for whatever reason, howevr i have downshifted one time into first while i was going 20mph. but whenevr i downshift i always try to blip the throttle to match revs and then i quickly slid the clutch out immediatly after this so it feels smooth(sometimes) i think by matching revs it lessons the impact on the gears(syncros).. and it sounds cool too
But sometimes my shifter can be soo notchy is feels really uncool. But then other times it feels nice and smooth.. wassup with that?? I guess i should post in the transmission forum

You got a new clutch under warranty too! nice

To those of you who say you shouldn't need to downshift into first, you must have never driven in really hilly areas. I HAVE tried turning on and going up certain hills in second, guess what? I stalled because it was either hit the hill at a high speed=bottom out or downshift into first, I think ill take the downshift into first option, when my car lets me that is.

Just last night I came upon one of those hills and I slowed down to about 5 mph and I had the clutch in the whole way, the shifter was in neutral for about 5 seconds while i slowed down and then I tried to put it into first, thats when i heard gh;asdhfj;fja;, or the best I coudl describe is the painful ear wrenching grinding sound. Followed by another wiggle to get it into first I could finally do so.

Last, If I try to shift into first at any other speed than below about 2 mph, I can get into first, sometimes it grinds and other times I have to wiggle it shake it or force it to get into first, no other way to describe it but it doesnt like to go into first. Now last night I got a CEL for whatever reason, i dont know? but its going in today and im going to tell them to look at the synchros for first.

Well thats my ranting.

Bryan

To those of you who say you shouldn't need to downshift into first, you must have never driven in really hilly areas.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Um, ever heard of San Francisco? Perhaps you've seen some of the roads here in the movies? How about the Santa Cruz Mountains? Roads with names like "Bear Creek", "Summit" and "Empire Grade" are how I get to my girlfriend's house several times a month.
As I've said before, I have no problem getting my car into first gear at speeds up to 15 MPH if I rev match. If you people cannot, document it with your dealer and get it fixed.

i hope its not too late but i just emailed you....

6 speed tranny, huh. get real bro. subaru is going to tell you to stick in your ass, as they should. All I have ever driven are manual tranny cars. I can't remember ever being able to shift any of them in to first at more than 10 mph. If you can't handle it, buy an auto tranny.

I'm going to join in...

I drive in stop-and-go traffic daily. (Seattle-Redmond on SR520)

I very occasionally downshift into first. The only reason I ever shift into first while moving is when I've been slowed down to a *crawl* on an uphill grade when the car ahead of me starts accellerating again. When I say crawl, I mean barely moving, certainly less than 5mph.

Even at this speed my WRX downshifts into first the way many previous cars I've owned do. It balks at it... It does not just slide into first, it takes quite a bit of time til the resistance drops and the lever will finally slip into gear.

Has anyone having shifting problems tried different transmission lubricants? My Miata is extremely sensitive to transmission oil. Oils which are too slick don't provide enough friction for the synchros...

I'm totally happy with the way my WRX shifts.

this is not a wrx only problem, my 2.5ts does it as well. i have owned 4 manual cars before this and none of them did this, because the synchros were working properly, and obviously it is not in my ts. i seem to have more problems getting it into reverse though, 1st is a mild annoyance, occasionally reverse can be a real *****. anybody had that prob yet?

Originally posted by jasona
i seem to have more problems getting it into reverse though, 1st is a mild annoyance, occasionally reverse can be a real *****. anybody had that prob yet?

i have somthing like that, its not too bad but you really have to slam it into reverse because if you just push it in then let off the clutch it will grind and pop right out...but it feels like its in....

My WRX is probably the most sensitive car I have ever driven in terms of downshifting into 1st. At this point I guess I would say that any car has a combination of great points and good points and a few not so wonderful points. Overall the WRX is a hoot to own and drive. Yes, I feel that "all things considered" the overall transmission element is the "weakest link" but my current (personal) strategy is to "put up with it" until "down the road" I switch into an STi 6-speed setup. GoodFinder :)

I'm going to weigh in here...

In cold weather (less than -10 Celcius) shifting into first is very difficult; it takes a very hard push to get into 1st. This is for nothing more than going into 1st at a stop, say 5 mph. But in truth, my '98 Legacy GT was the same.


I suppose you could argue that if you don't like it, don't buy it. But part of any major corporations quality improvement process involves listening to customer complaints and responding. Not "If you don't like it, buy a Honda".

Steve

Good point. This is definitely one element that Subaru should listen to, indeed. GoodFinder :)

Originally posted by YaZahX


i have somthing like that, its not too bad but you really have to slam it into reverse because if you just push it in then let off the clutch it will grind and pop right out...but it feels like its in....

FWIW - i find that if i depress the clutch all the way and then let it out slightly while trying to shift into reverse, it will go in, even if it balked when i tried to shift with the clutch all the way out.

I think my reverse is doing pretty well. I had my ebrake on and the clutch all the way out and wasnt thinking too hard slammed it into reverse, no grind no nothin cept it stalled immediatly. =) oops! :rolleyes: :p

Well let me say this, I lived in Cincinnati for 4yrs and downshifted from 2nd to 1st a lot, more from 3rd to 2nd tho, that was a Probe GT, you could wind the gears out pretty good in those, but let me tell you this my friend has a 2001 BMW something XI, so its and AWD and ~180-190hp, It's tranny will let you do ANYTHING, I was going 70mph up a hill and missed 4th and put it into 2nd, hit the rev limiter hence the next morning car was hurting, the oil pump blew, then the engine blew on the way to the dealer, he was happy about getting a new engine at 10,000 miles though, hehehe, the BMW's have nojoke syncro's....

do any of you think that i should go through the hassle of dealing with SOA about this. A lot of you seem to say that this is normal (downshifting into first being hard) All the people that I have talked to say that they don't know of any car that doesn't do that (there being a lot of resistance when trying to downshift into first) I know that I've had grinding occur when trying to downshift into 1st or 2nd with the clutch fully depressed when I wasn't even near exceeding the maximum speed of either of those gears. I'm now worried that if I don't get this so called problem fixed that it will only get worse and I'll ot of warranty coverage. Is this really related to the syncromeshing.

my turn, my turn....

i see you all have the same problem as i do (i will be emailing you NIN) BUT.......can any of you do the following......

get you car warmed up....maybe a half hour of driving...nice and warm....go to a stop light and come to a complete stop. make sure you are in neutral and the clutch is out. push in the clutch and shift into first....as you try to wrestle the shifter into first you hear a *pop/grind/thump*. do you get that too? brought it to the dealer (lynnes in NJ) and they said there was noooooo problem. I changed service managers and went back 3 weeks later. now there's a problem they say. But they also say i voided my warranty by changing the tranny and diff fluids. they may not fix it...... what to do. what to do...

if you did change the fluids and replaced them with the proper spec fluids, they cannot deny warranty service based on that. Its just like changing your own oil.

Provided the fluids you used are within Subaru specs...

I rebuilt my first Subaru transmission sometime around 1980 and have since then probably built 100 of them. Let me tell you, my new WRX is worlds better than any previous Subaru box! I'm amazed at how effortless it shifts especially when cold. Try shifting a cold early Subaru 4x4 trans and you will be amazed of the required effort to do so. In fact I completed a rebuild of an 84 4x4 this week with new syncro rings bearings and seals and it works like crap downshifting into 1st when cold but will go when warm if done so at a reasonable speed. The WRX box is light years better than the old set-up. I really do not think you will get anywhere with Subaru reps regarding this complaint. Lemon law does not cover normal characteristics which I believe to be the situation here. I work closely with factory reps on another car line and we deal with issues like this weekly. In most cases if the vehicle is behaving similar to like kind vehicles its normal. The fact that a good number of owners are experiencing this hurts your chances of any action. You may be dissapointed, the 6 speed update will never happen. When this new 6 speed arrives in any future Subaru products you can be assured many certification hoops will have jumped through! Please dont be angry at me I'm just being realistic as I deal with this stuff on a daily basis. Best of luck.

Originally posted by SubEd
Provided the fluids you used are within Subaru specs...

i bought the correct fluids from another dealer and lynnes wants me to provide a reciept...long tossed...lol

dropped the car off this morning. i told my rep about what i had learned on this forum. let's see what happens..
NIN....did you get my email?

The service manager was just giving you a load of BS. Because if they make less money on warranty service. So if they can convince you that its your fault and get your to pay for it they make more money. Plus most dealerships pay their service reps comission so they more they charge you the more they make.


This is one problem subaru should listen to and do something about. If you took all the posts about this first gear problem on I-club and put them all together it would probably amount to a few thousand pages.

I took my 2002 WRX 4 times to the dealer. They replaced the diff, clutch, etc. and the problem is still there. I am currently talking with the subaru rep (but they are taking there time to get things moving) and may have to use the Lemon law depending on what they do. The noise came back 100mi after they made the last fix. Let me know if anyone else still does not have their car fixed, even after subaru's replacement parts.

I havnt been able to get them to find anything wrong.. I had them check it last time I was there and they said nothing out of the ordianry. Should I try and leave it there overnight sometime? As the problems dont occur much when its been driven and the dealership is 150 miles from home.

I almost killed myself twice the first two days I owned my WRX because I couldn't get the car into first gear, and trying to roll into second gear caused me to nearly stall out. The first time I was in the process of stopping at a stop sign and realized that I had a chance to go, was maybe going 5 mph (if even) and started to go (in second), almost stalled out, tried to get it into first, had to STOP in the middle of a 3 lane road to get it into first, slammed it into first finally (god, what a noise) and floored it to avoid getting hit by oncoming traffic. Luckily, it's got some acceleration power. ;-) That just should NOT have happened.

I love the car, but I can't even go over speedbumps anymore. My apartment complex has huge speedbumps that you can't go over any faster than a slow roll, so I usually put it in first after my front tires go over it. Now I literally come to a stop after the front tires go over as the second tires are going up the bump, then I can get it into first. Those of you asking why you would put it into first ever from second have never been to my parking lot. My old car (98 jetta GLX) could go from a dead stop in second gear, so it wasn't such an issue, this car has to be rolling quite fast to be able to go in second gear.

I'm glad to hear that others are having this problem, I'm going to call my dealer on Monday, definitely. I'm turning into a granny driver, afraid to go if I'm not at a complete stop or going at least 20 mph in second, and where I live (metro area) it's stop and go very often. And god, those speed bumps, they're like a foot high. heh.

ktb

In response to Isit24 who told the story of his freinds BMW mishifting into 2nd gear and subsequently blowing the engine and the oil pump etc.. I did the same thing in my WRX while driving on the highway.. i hit redline in 3rd gear went to shift into fourth and pulled 2nd by accident(hit a bump:o) and the ej20 hit almost 7,600rpms when i popped the clutch out.. i immediatly put the clutch in and put the car in neutral.. got a CEL and drove home.. the next day the CEL went off, and its been fine ever since then.. that was at 5,000miles now i'm at 15,250k..i'm suprised the BMW fell apart like that..

Also, i find that if i can't get my car into reverse or first gear i have to either 1. pump the clutch once while in neutral or 2. try another gear and then go to neutral and then 1st or reverse which seems to align everything right

re: love the car, but I can't even go over speedbumps anymore. My apartment complex has huge speedbumps that you can't go over any faster than a slow roll, so I usually put it in first after my front tires go over it. Now I literally come to a stop after the front tires go over as the second tires are going up the bump, then I can get it into first. Those of you asking why you would put it into first ever from second have never been to my parking lot. My old car (98 jetta GLX) could go from a dead stop in second gear, so it wasn't such an issue, this car has to be rolling quite fast to be able to go in second gear. >>>>>>>>>>

That's strange. I can start my car from a dead stop in second gear. In fact, in street traffic I sometimes do 2/4 upshifts.
Of course you have to slip the clutch a little, but nothing ridicules
or annoying.

One thing i've found is the hydraulic clutch really doesn't have the best feel. It's hard finding the catch point.
I didn't like it when I 1st got the car, but I've gotten used to it.

If you're sure you can't get the car going from a stop in 1st, and
can't downshift into 1st, go to your dealer, make them do it, if they can't then it proves somethings wrong and the car is undrivable.

I agree though you should be able to downshift into first if you're
at 5 - 10 miles per hour.

Do you know how to double clutch? In theory, you should be able
to double clutch your way into 1st at any legitimate 1st gear speed. The tranny is being spared and there is no more
where on it than if you were starting from a dead stop.

I've had some situations where I was caught in really bad traffic
in the right lane at 5 - 10 miles per hour, had to squirt into a
small opening in the much faster left lane.
This situation calls for no ***** double clutching.
I've tried to work on my double clutching to the point where i'm
confident that I can do it in an emergency. It takes time, and
i'm still not all the way there yet.

I'm able to shift to 1st from second at anything below 20mph. I always double clutch because I hate the lurch if you don't.

I experience a little resistance going into first from a standstill or from 2nd to 1st, but nothing too bad and no grinding at all ever!!

I ocasionally get a little graaaunch or resistance going into reverse.

I bought my car on November 1st. I wonder if this was a problem with the first couple of manufacturing runs on this car?

Overall I love my little blue WReX, it's by far the best car I've ever owned.

Allan

I've read and heard that you don't need to double clutch on modern cars (synchro) when shifting to whatever gear...
It seems there is a problem with the WRX trans...

One reason that I haven't yet seen mentioned as to why one would want to go from 2nd to 1st with any kind of speed is AutoX. You slow for some sharp turn and drop waaaay out of 2nd's power band, so you try to get into 1st for more power. (I could be letting my AutoX inexperience show here....) I have found the WRX, or at least mine, to be _extremely_ resistant to going into 1st at anything more than the slightest of speed.

Approaching stoplights that turn green at the last second is another one, but I think that has been mentioned already.

Can somebody explain to me exactly what a double-clutch is? It might be something I do already without realizing it, but if someone told me to go out and demonstrate what it is, I wouldn't know what to do!

Originally posted by BSLICKOH
Can somebody explain to me exactly what a double-clutch is? It might be something I do already without realizing it, but if someone told me to go out and demonstrate what it is, I wouldn't know what to do! A double clutch downshift is used to spin the input shaft of the tranny, to greatly reduce wear on the synchros. Clutch in, gear selector to neutral, clutch out, blip throttle (to approx rpms in next lower gear), clutch in, gear selectror to next lower gear, clutch out.

I am new to the WRX and love it but I have noticed that the shift into 1st and reverse is really tough. I have also noticed that all of the synchros tend to be tight. I do love the notchiness but the sychros need work. I used to have a Ford Contour that had tight and difficult sychros, especially when cold. The solution was to add friction modified from ford or to replace the fluid with a syntechic ATF, like redline or funny enough Chrysler ATF-III. THat helped wonders, especially when cold and caused no problems. I am wondering if this will help this problem. What are the subaru guidelines for the tranny? Their fluid may be too thick and causing this problem. I am exploring this ASAP cause this is the only thing I don't like and should be easy to fix.

Alright so i'm just being mean at this point, but hey.... you guys will still love me right?

1. My subey DOES have an issue going into first from second, double clutching or not... if i am rolling higher than 5MPH I get that painful sounding grrrraaauuuuuup shift into first. I even have times where from a cold start I can't get the car into first, so i have to jack with the tranny, clutch a few times, go into second first, then first, etc.

Here's the mean part, and maybe i'm just a retard. This has been the case with EVERY MT car i have ever driven with the exception of some very few high dollar guys.

Subaru does claim that the 5MT is fully synchro'd and sometimes I begin to wonder, it sure acts a bit more like a dogbox (not quite that rough though) - Maybe it is a warranty issue, maybe I'll have my car looked at this upcoming Tuesday while I'm in for some other stuff....

2. I had a ducati 996 that I could slam shift to first at about 72 and cause a partial tire lockup for some REALLY cool lookin tail slides hehe... how come my subey can't do the same? Well - I do think that a lot of this is attributed to the nature of AWD vehicles. take a trip with me if you will. As a former supra owner, I abused the CRAP out of that transmission. More than once I dropped it into first at 60+ MPH while cornering, causing not a lockup slide but more like an ABS on the rear only slide.... pretty controlled However, driving a supra is very much like driving a pickup truck in this regard, most of the drive train weight is in the front, the rear tires slide easy enough, etc... Not really that big of a deal. However let's just suppose that I COULD do that with a subaru - and at 60MPH i throw my not so shiny blaze yellow WRX into first, the nature of the mechanical AWD is that all my wheels are going to WANT To spin a the same speed - not such a huge deal, However this is PURE TORTURE for the engine because the weight of the car, and the traction of all four wheels gripping the road means that sliding the tires to prevent 10k RPM revs on the engine won't happen.... THEREFORE I think you have to conclude it's designed to at the very least prevent this type of behaviour (where the duck and supra didn't really make much of a deal out of it, they just started to slide).

If you live in an area that has snow, you can get a better idea of this. Borrow a friends RWD front engine car (or pickup), get up to 30mph or so in a parking lot, downshift to first (it will probably let you) and let go of the clutch, what happens to the RPM? they stay around 1500-2500 because the rear tires basically lockup. Now hop back into your subaru and do this.... The result on ice or snow is basically the same but you'll notice the RPM on the subey will climb faster because the nature of AWD is that all the traction of the drive wheels (all 4, rather than 2 in the rear) are going to convert that to RPMs in the engine. Now imagine if the cohesion were on dry pavement. In the 2WD vehicle the result would be nearly the same, the car would slow down quicker because of more friction and RPM would come up quicker but above a certain speed the rear would still lock up or skip. In the sube because you will have dry pavement and all four wheels applying their traction to the drivetrain you won't slide AT all and RPM's will just from 1000 to 6000 in a split second.

Not sure how else to explain this. this could also be demonstrated on snow or gravel if you were to accelerate to near redline depress the clutch and let RPMs fall then release the clutch... 2WD=lockup AWD = convert all that inertia back into RPMs

However.... All that being said, designed that way or not, I do think the Subaru should be able to switch into first from ANY gear (rather than rowing through all 5) at any speed with in the gearings range (I believe like 34 or something is redline in 1st? though that sounds pretty low)... That to me would be fully syncrhomeshed, however I have adapted my driving style (not so much just because of the subey) to match RPMs or double clutch whenever I drive ANY MT so I guess it's not such a big deal for me. I have even thought about going to a 6MT dogbox because I do this by second nature... but it sure would be loud.

-Z

Originally posted by zmw
2. I had a ducati 996 that I could slam shift to first at about 72 and cause a partial tire lockup for some REALLY cool lookin tail slides hehe...

72 mph?

so, you are telling me that, hypothetically speaking, you are at, say 3000 rpm in 5th gear (assuming it is a 5MT), slam the shifter into first and your engine DOESN'T explode? Most cars would be in the 20k+ rpm range in first gear at that point...Since most 4 cyl engines redline in the 6k-8k range, that is, in a word, bad. Did that Ducati have some sort of failsafe? If I were to do that on any MT I've ever driven, my transmission would literally drop out onto the ground and my engine would throw the pistons through the engine block.

Perhaps there are some basic car mechanics I don't understand here, but this seems like bs to me.

Or, perhaps, I have been bitten by a troll and I'm the fool.

Originally posted by AaronBBrown

Or, perhaps, I have been bitten by a troll and I'm the fool.

lol :)

PS my entire tranny is being replaced.

6 more days with no scooby. :(

Just an update, I had the shifting problem at a little over 2,000 miles with my WRX. The dealer said the syncros, both 1st and 2nd needed replacing. They did the repairs under warranty, and it helped a lot. Now, at about 5,000 miles, it is starting to get hard to shift into first again. Since the repairs, I have driven like an old lady, only shifting to first at under 5mph.

I've own 3 other manual cars now, one has over 300,000 miles.
(a Ford) you can downshift to first at up to 15-18mph, as smooth as silk. Original tranny, has never been gone into. There is something wrong with the Subaru. It's not my driving style.

They should recall them....

Aaron:

Ducati is a motorcycle. the 996 SP was designed mostly as a street legal race bike. 67MPH in first gear was pretty easy to attain, so slam shifting into 1st at 72 while it would be a redline condition certainly wouldn't explode the bike by any means

Plus as i tried to explain lower in the post because there is little weight on the backend the tire woud just lock up and slide rather than convert all that back into engine RPM

-Z

yeah - i've got the first gear shifting problem. sometimes double clutching helps, sometimes it grinds anyway. it's going in next week so the dealer can take it apart. the head mechanic was going to call SOA, but i was wondering what others' experiences have been, and if there's anything else i should tell him . . . let's get this *&%# problem solved.

I too have the 2-1 grinding but not all the time. I thought this might be my driving but this is my second stick car and my last one did not do this. My last car was a saturn about half the price of my WRX. I would never trade back but if this is a legitimate problem I would just like it fixed. I will be emailing my VIN. A six speed STI tranny would sure be nice though! I can dream anyway!!

Alright so I did like I said, took my car to the dealer complained about going from 2nd to first at any speed greater than 5mph w/o double clutching or rev matching. Dealer confirmed a problem in my transmission - And generally slandered the subaru transmissions as a whole... So needless to say I get a rebuilt tranny, should have it back today. Vroom vroom... Driving the Maxima just isn't cutting it... though it's pretty quick for a family sedan

I'll find out more about exactly what was fixed when I pick up the car, will let you all know.

-Z

Well it has been about 7,000 miles since I got it back after the repacement of the 1st and 2nd gears and syncros. Guess what? I am going in tomorrow 1-30-2002 to have a regional service rep. drive my car. The manager of the service department as usual has been nothing but helpful. My car is in mint condition and taken care of above and beyond what is recommended. However, the tranny is grinding from second to first again. This time I think it is a new tranny rather then just a replacement of parts. I just hope that the new tranny has been re-engineered, I hate to say I am not holding my breath. I will keep everyone posted. I am also turning in a book that has all the e-mails and posts to this thread. I am also including a few of the other threads that are about the what seems to be more drivetrane issues i.e. tranny and clutch problems.

Just incase everyone was wondering what happend to me I was out of town for the holidays. Can you say ROAD TRIP IN THE SUBIE!!! here's a pic for those of you who care.

Remember please keep the e-mails comming, if you have already sent one there is no need to send another, unless you have new information for me, or if you just want to say hi.

Nick :)

I wasn't worried about this on my WRX because my previous car, a 5 speed Mazda 626, always did this. I thought it was normal.

The next time you get into your new WRX, I want you to get up to about 10MPH and put the car into neutral. I want you to then coast for a few feet then I want you to depress the clutch and try to slide it into first gear. Repeat this also at 5MPH. If your car grinds, guess what you have the problem. If not, consider yourself lucky.

At this point anyone who has not e-mailed me about this problem please do so.

I was told today that they would replace my transmission only if when I recieved the invoice I would have to sign it would say that they would not repair the car ever again for the same problem. I promptly told them NO that was not acceptable. I purchased the extended warranty for my car so I am covered to 75,000 bumper to bumper and I have 19,000 miles on my car.

I have also found out that the cause of this problem is a brass ring gear (I am guessing to the actuall part name but it is close to acurate) is the problem. I can only speculate that this gear is to soft and cannot handle the cars power. Therfore needs to be redesigned possible out of another material that won't wear as easily.

My cousins' dealer told him they would not fix the car under warranty and if he did fix it there is would be over $2000 and that they would give him a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty on the repair. Sound fishy to anyone else.

Originally posted by T-WRX-02

The wide gear spacing and the way the input shaft drives the low gear synchros is the source of the problem.

Umm, not to sound stupid, but could you explain that one to me? The part about the input shaft driving the low gear synchros, I mean? If your input shaft is driving your synchros, YOU GOT A PROBLEM! If you are thinking of the gear teeth on the 1-2 synchro sleeve, you are thinking of reverse driven gear.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Keith99RS
***, It gets tiring sometimes seeing the same recurring threads that lead to griping about the WRX trannies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Originally posted by Austin
"Then don't read them. If your tranny is good, ****. "

Yeah, Keith99RS, how DARE you say something that goes against the collective whining.......
:D

I've had the 2nd -> 1st downshift problem since <2000 miles (I'm at 7800 now), but I never got around to taking it in to the dealer. I've also had a loud chugging/thunking engine noise when the engine was cold and at low revs. At first I thought it was normal, but it's gotten worse and now does it sometimes happens even when the engine is hot. So I broke down and took it in last Thursday.

Surpise, surprise, the 1st/2nd synchro is being replaced and the replacement parts aren't expected till midweek.

No word yet on the engine noise diagnosis.

-Dave

I need your support people if we are going to get this problem licked.

Here is a web site that will let you voice your opinion to the Center for auto safty.

http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/SUBARU-What.htm

http://www.autosafety.org/complaint.html

Thank's
Nick

Hey Nick,
Check your email. Never thought my first post would be in the warranty section. :(

Nick, just sent you an email about my own tranny problem. The car's in the shop as we speak. It's a different problem than you guys are having (pops out of first gear when you let off the gas in parking garage type situations), but it too is having gears and synchros replaced. United We Stand!

I tried to put my car into first gear today on an onramp(to highway) to have some fun merging, i was only going 10mph and it seemed like the shifter would not go into first; let clutch out, went to nuetral, put clutch in and tried to select first gear again and it seemed reluctant, then it went in with a grind.. the worst grind sound i've ever heard my tranny make. Everything seems to be in working order but if that keeps happening something is sure to break. Despite this problem i really enjoy the tranny, i went to track for first time and did some very quick shifting/driving and it was flawless.

Originally posted by davesill
I've had the 2nd -> 1st downshift problem since <2000 miles (I'm at 7800 now),

Dealer confirmed the problem, removed the transmission, disassembled it, and found nothing wrong. The decided to replace the 1/2 synchro, and Subaru either recommended or required replacing the complete 1/2 gear set, which they did. I'm now able to downshift to 1st again. The service manager did recommend going easy on it, though.

I've also had a loud chugging/thunking engine noise when the engine was cold and at low revs. At first I thought it was normal, but it's gotten worse and now does it sometimes happens even when the engine is hot.

Turned out to be the cam belt tensioner, which wasn't working right. They replaced it. Had the part in stock.

-Dave

I you can, get your old gears and synchro's from the dealer after they fix them and keep them in a box. I may need them as part of a case that is possibly going to be mounted on SOA. I greatly appreciate all that everyone is contributing to this post. Even with this problem I LOVE MY SCOOBIE! :)

Keep the e-mails flowing I am getting them it will only benefit all of us in the end. I won't stand for anything less then a recall on the gear box.

I have a friend who's WRX is having the same problem yet he is opting to change the gears with another manufactures gears to see if they work better I am going to document this and see what the out-come is. It may not be overnight but at least if and/or when this goes to arbitration I will have more proof of the inferior gears and synchro's that Subaru is using. The gear set he is going to use is fully synchromeshed and will be the same gear ratio's that Subaru has just stronger and NO BRASS!!!

I look forward to hearing from everyone,
Nick

P.S. I took 2nd place at the Central Florida Nationals in the Subaru devision YAY!!! :D

Now at about 6500 I'm starting to get a little graunch every once in a while...hope this is not the problem you describe...I love my little Subie too..but if it needs new gears consumer pressure in the states will almost certainly make it happen!!!

Just linking up my thread in here so that all issues can be documented in one thread.


http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130057

Cheers!!!

It's nice to see that the '..Subarus all do that..' '..it's normal..' '..don't downshift..' posters have shut the hell up and gone home. This thread was started to communicate with other affected owners, not start a discussion on whether it's really a problem, or whether you have undying loyalty for SOA. :rolleyes:

I think we would all be well advised to pay careful attention to this topic, because these warranty issues are setting a tone and a precedent for future claims; transmission or otherwise.

You think you live in a hilly area, yet you never need to downshift to first? I live in a state full of fourteen-thousand-foot hills, and I have to shift to first several times on my 55-mile drive home from work. Right now it will reluctantly shift into first if I'm near standstill, which makes for some rapid tap-dancing on these gradients. The vehicle is at 8,000 miles. No grinding yet, but I'm wary of this problem and hoping that if my transmission gives up the ghost, it does it inside the warranty period.

Please keep us informed of how all these claims proceed. Thanks.

-Pace

I am glad to have your support.

I am making a very nice package to send to all the major networks, i.e. MSNBC, Date Line NBC, CBS, ABC, Car and Driver, Consumer Reports, as well as The Bureau of Consumer Protection.
I am also sending a package to SOJ, in hopes to make them aware of the way the company is handling it's customers in the US this car came here and is breaking sales records for Subaru and we are quickly being shunned. I DON'T THINK SO!


I am not playing anymore, my rep. had two weeks to call me back I gave her an extra 2 days. I had the dealership leave messages for her and still didn't get any response. This is the worst customer service I have ever received anywhere.

I really don't want to smear Subaru I just wanted this car fixed right. Now, I hope I don't make any problems for anyone else. I need you all to know what is going to happen will make it better for all of us in the end, yet may be slow to come, unless there is a major realization within SOA.

Nick

I drove a honda civic last night and wow... um WHAT IS WRONG w/ our tranny? I could flop that gearbox all over the place like it was nothing. It's been years since I drove a stick prior to the WRX so I didn't remember much on how it felt, but after driving the civic I'm beginning to understand more on what you all have been saying. the honda shifts EASILY in to first at 20 mph... my WRX will fight me 75% of the time at any speed under 20mph.

I've been down shifting into first @ 20+ mph for 23,000 miles and guess what my transmisson is in perfect health. If you learn to double clutch the transmisson will easily slip into first gear without a single complaint. As far as this being normal, I've had 3 Imprezas since 1993 and they all have been reluctant to shift into first gear if I didn't double clutch. For everyone that is having trouble down shifting into first, double clutch it and you and your transmisson will live happily together.

Yeah double clutching works but you shouldn't have to do it.

I have the same trouble shifting into 1st, if my car is going fast then five miles/h. Also 5/10 have trouble shifting into fifth. I am hoping it will get better after a couple months; however I don't think so. It is my first subaru, but have driven many 5pds before. I think subaru needs to fix its problem soon. I will see dealer this monday. I install an after market short shifter and hope that does not void my warrenty. What do you guys think? subaru sucks big time if compare to my old 84 toyota supra becuase it shifts smooth like hell


peng

hey kids-

just wanted to let y'all know that i took my car to the dealer a couple of weeks ago and had the head tech drive it. we went on a 5 minute drive after which he said 'all right - i just have to order some parts.'

i just got my car back today with a new first gear assembly, new idler gear and shift rail for reverse (separate problem) and a new clutch assembly: about $2000 in parts alone, all covered by warranty. the moral of this story? i'm guessing that SOA is NOT the problem - they are more than happy to cover this (and other) problems under warranty. i figure that i am lucky - i have a great dealer (so far, at least. flemington subaru, for those that are interested.) for those of you who don't? call SOA and let them know that you're getting shafted, or try another dealer. i didn't have to do anything to convince the dealer that this was a problem or that it was a warranty issue. the best news? my car now happily downshifts (always with dbl-clutching) into first at speeds over a dead stop. :D FWIW, my dealer said that this was a very unusual problem in their experience.) good luck to the rest of you and hope for me that this fix lasts.

Nick (and everyone else) --

i just figured i'd jump in here and comment on this problem, as my car has many more miles (102,xxx) on the transmission than anyone else in this thread.

i have the same problem, and it's very annoying having to drop the car into 2nd when rolling up to a light at 2mph, especially since my car is a little, as they say, "weaker" in the power department compared to the WRX. any grinds that may have occurred when trying to get it into 1st haven't affected the tranny yet.

however, none of the cars i've owned or driven like being downshifted into 1st, but they would reluctantly do it, provided you were gentle with it or double clutched. the VW i owned before my subaru had a full synchro racing box in it...this was something designed to be slammed around and abused, and yet it too could not be downshifted into 1st in the same manner as the other gears.

having said that, i CAN get my car into 1st during a slow roll, but it's usually more work than it's worth considering i'm not on a track. but my commute takes me through one of the rare hilly spots in central FL, and there are times that i really do wish i could get it to work easily and consistently. however, understand that this is more often than not the nature of the beast when driving a manual transmission, and if someone is going to rear end you for rolling away from a light a little more slowly, then that's THEIR problem. think about it this way, if that DOES happen, find a quack doctor to provide testimony for the lawsuit, and then you can definitely get that STi 6-speed and have change left over. :D :devil:

what do you people who live in colder climates do about starting up in 2nd gear in the winter? i've had to roll my car from almost a complete stop in 2nd hundreds of times, and never had a problem lugging the engine or stalling. as long as you know what you're doing, you should be able to drive the car in 2nd from a dead stop. if you're lacking in clutch technique, go into an empty parking lot and learn to get your car rolling without using the gas...then manuvers like slipping the clutch to get the car rolling in 2nd should be second nature (no pun intended).

i'm not taking sides on this, as this thread can be argued either way (manufacturer's defect or operator error), but the subaru trannies are a bit more finicky than the norm when it comes to getting them into 1st. just chalk this up as a quirk of the brand. motor journalists constantly complained for years about the clumsy action of ferrari's gated shifters (up until they started phasing them out for the F1 paddles), but it was pretty much considered a trait of the breed, even on a $100,000+ car.

-adam-

Nick -- BTW, how are the tanabe springs? :D

I made the right choice in buying them I like the ride and the look of the springs. The car sits like a normal height car and has a better handling characteristic through turns. I think most of all I like that there isn't so much gap in the front fender well.

As for your argument about leaving the line in second gear. If you are referring to your 2.5RS I must remind you that you are driving a much different car and taking off in 2nd gear is a lot easier for you then those of us that drive WRX's because of the fact that we have less torque unless we are in the turbo.

I know I am comming ina t the end of this thread but with some hydraulic slave cyl. vehicles it is possible to get an air bubble in them, this does not allow the clutch to fully disengage and then you will have more trouble getting into first on a downshift. Upshifting is usually not a problem because the engine rpms are on your side.....I am new to teh Subaru thing...btu hydraulic systems are all about the same....so I say try to bleed it or have someone you trust do it. If you want it done right ya just have to do it yoruself......;)

Originally posted by NIN2001
If you are referring to your 2.5RS I must remind you that you are driving a much different car and taking off in 2nd gear is a lot easier for you then those of us that drive WRX's because of the fact that we have less torque unless we are in the turbo.

<---------------------- shhhhh...don't tell anyone... ;)

no seriously, though i completely understand and agree with your poitn...subaru's engineers SHOULD be able to design a smooth operating tranny, but certain cars have certain "quirks"...hondas have great shift action, but would i be willing to put up with an engine that makes no power below 5 grand and a rubbery chassis to get that? of course not. :D

best of luck in getting this resolved. if people never speak up against poorly designed products, nothing will ever be done to remedy the situation.

-adam-

I was wondering if this problem is also true for us Legacy folk. I tend to be with the majority here claiming "it's natural" I have been driving sticks for a while, infact I have never owned an automatic out of my 8 cars. Yet I don't remember avewr having a problem going into first, infact I don't ever really remember downshifting into first ever. (except at a stop:rolleyes: )

So after reading this thread, then trying to downshift this past weekend, I wonder if I too have the same problem, because I can not get into first unless it is like 2MPH or lower.

So, should I take mine into the dealer for this same problem? Or is it covoered?

Hey Boys,
Those (why do you have to downshift into first?) really upset me. I feel as long as your not going to hit the rev limiter you shouln't have a problem.
My wrx is only 7 months new and it actually belongs to my wife, and currently has no modifications. The service manager at my local dealer DELRAY SUBARU told me that it is my driving style. That's a load of BULL!!!!
Apparently they don't like the fact that I downshift into first, But know that I found out about the shifting section in the manual
( THANKS NICK) I will take my case to the next level.

When I get it fixed I will comment about is also.....

Just got my car back from the dealer after they replaced first gear and the first gear synchro. As per my previous post, I had a problem with the shifter popping into neutral when I was trolling along in first gear, like you would in a tight parking lot or parking garage. Well, I'm happy to report the problem seems to be fixed. I should say that my car too is reluctant to go into first above five miles an hour, but I never seem to need to put it in first above that speed anyways, so I haven't worried about it. Anyhow, just thought I'd report on a positive dealer/SOA experience, and hope you all eventually get the same response and results I (hope I) got.

After reading this post, I have been checking the highest speed at which I can downshift into first. Best so far is 32-33 mph.

Of course I don't let out the clutch at that speed--I'm simply braking to a stop and rowing down thru the gears. No double-clutching, just gentle pressure and letting the syncros do their job.

I have noticed that there is a big difference in the speed at which most manual transmissions will go into 1rst depending on whether they are cold or hot.

Bottom line: Don't let SOA tell you, "They all do that". My WRX sedan will easily downshift into first at 25 mph.

Originally posted by sajohnson
My WRX sedan will easily downshift into first at 25 mph. As does mine, post repairs.

Well it seems that I might be joining the club. My WRX has nearly 30k on it now and when the trany is cold it will not shift into first above about 5mph. When the car was new there was no problem downshifting to first at 15-20.

For those asking about why a WRX owner would want to shift into first from second during normal driving an answer: "Subaru - in the owners manual - says that second should not be used below 15."

Originally posted by tnbd
For those asking about why a WRX owner would want to shift into first from second during normal driving an answer: "Subaru - in the owners manual - says that second should not be used below 15."

Those people must live in relatively flat areas. It would be impossible to drive in my area without downshifting to first. Try turning from a steep hill onto a side road that's on an even steeper hill. Second gear would stall.

re: For those asking about why a WRX owner would want to shift into first from second during normal driving an answer: "Subaru - in the owners manual - says that second should not be used below 15.">

Where is this in the manual.

Closest I can come is page 7-11 which recommends upshifting
to 2nd at 15.

Originally posted by Judge
I know I am comming ina t the end of this thread but with some hydraulic slave cyl. vehicles it is possible to get an air bubble in them, this does not allow the clutch to fully disengage and then you will have more trouble getting into first on a downshift. Upshifting is usually not a problem because the engine rpms are on your side.....I am new to teh Subaru thing...btu hydraulic systems are all about the same....so I say try to bleed it or have someone you trust do it. If you want it done right ya just have to do it yoruself......;)

actually, this is what my dealer just came up with(or something similar). i dropped the WRX off AGAIN on tues. today, they say the clutch is not fully disengaging(sp?) at all...i will toss the fluid bubble thing at them. at my last conversation, my service rep said the mechanic was dissasembling the tranny for the 4th time cause something doesn't "sound right". I am at least glad that the tech cares enough to keep it until it's right (this time around).

i'll keep all informed..

-=GuS=-

Greg I and SubieNut are right, you should double clutch when shifting down into first gear. And this applies to any manual transmission car, not just a Subaru. Just a good old habit.

V.

Can somebody tell me if this is the same issue? It's been happening for a while and its driving me nuts!

My car has never made a grinding noise when down shifting into first from second and I almost always wait till I'm going less than five ph/h. However, sometimes, especially if I'm braking hard but almost at a dead stop, there is a distinct "clank-clank" type resistance as it goes into first. This isn't the normal notchiness. It feels almost like something is grabbing with the second clank and pushing back? It's not violent and the car still goes into gear, but it feels weird. Has anybody else experienced this?

Thanks,
Tim

Quick update!!!!!!!!!



SOA is going to my dealership on monday to check out my car and it's troubles. i can't wait to see whay the hell they say..


-=GuS=-

i recently discovered that, after double clutching and holding the stick at the first gear gate, i can gently wiggle the stick left and right and it slips immediately into 1st. for a while i was just holding it there saying to myself, "ok, any day now...any day..." waiting for the stick to slip into 1st. now i give it a slight jiggle and i'm in. (i wonder how bad that is for the gearbox)...anyways, i hate getting honked at by impatient automatic transmission drivers, so that's my newly discovered shortcut.

I cannot downshift from 2nd to 1st until 5mph...I think this is normal for a subaru and it doesn't really bother me anymore.

You know how sometimes reverse get stuck and you just slowly let the cluth out and it goes right in? Well try it for first gear when it is being stubborn.

Hi,
I just bought my car on Monday and it seeems to be just like the other two 5 speed cars that I have had (honda civic and VW Jetta). I have been driving a stick for 9 years and I never down shift to 1st. I always downshift to second if I am moving even a little. I was always told to only be in 1st after a complete stop. I am sorrry to hear about your problems but I really don't understand the actual problem. My 1993 Honda civic hated to go into 1st if I was moving, it would start to lurch forward and want to stall. My VW had a better time with it but I never tried it much. I would usually downshift to second if I was moving a little.

Again, I am very sorry to hear about your problems,

Dave

You were misinformed. While it is normally not necessary to downshift to 1rst while moving, it is perfectly OK and sometimes necessary. Especially with the WRX which has very little torque below 3,500 rpm.

"Especially with the WRX which has very little torque below 3,500 rpm."

Do you really think a 93 Civic has more torque? :lol:

My WRX has the same issue that you mention and also squaks when shifting from 4th to 5th. Yes I know how to rev match and double clutch. This does alleviate the symptom but the problem is still there. All you posters that say "That's just the way subies are" should be ashamed. If it's not right it should be fixed. I should also note, I love my WRX, I think it's the most fun car I've owned. But it would be better without the annoying trannie squaks. Looks like it's time to visit the dealer

I doubt that a '93 Civic has *more* torque, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's not a whole lot less (at lower rpm's) and it's a lighter vehicle.

However, my point was not to compare the WRX with a Honda Civic. Any car or truck may require first gear in certain situations. 1rst gear in the WRX is good to approx. 30 mph. 2nd is good to about 60 mph. Yes, there is some overlap--2nd can be used down to maybe 5-10 mph if you are just cruising thru a level parking lot or something.

Try accelerating from 5 or 10 mph in 2nd gear though--you might as well be driving a lawn tractor. If you need to either accelerate quickly for safety or climb a steep grade you will need to be able to shift into 1rst at a moderate speed.

I currently have 4 vehicles on the road--an '85 Toyota Truck, a '93 NX2000, a '97 RAV4, and the WRX. All have manual transmissions. All will downshift into first (when warm) at 20-30 mph. The WRX will actually slip into 1rst at 33 mph (although I obviously would not let the clutch out at that speed).

I apologize for not posting sooner I have been busy if you can keep the e-mails flowing I am about ready to send out my packages of doom! :)

I am putting together booklets with all of our posts, e-mails, vin #'s, and any other information provided by everyone and sending it out to all the major news stations, magazines, etc.

Nick

Really just a recap post.

What's the plan Nick? This is the first I've heard of it.

The first post in this thread:

Originally posted by NIN2001
OK... I need everyone here that has a new WRX that is having this tranny issue to e-mail me. I am going to go to my regional Subaru rep this month. I had to wait for a month and a half for her to drive my car because the mechanics assesment of the situation wasn't good enough for Subaru Tech. Crap I tell you, well please send me and e-mail if you are experiencing the same trouble as many of us are send and e-mail to Nick@WRXTuner.com I would like to take as many cases of this problem with me if you can include the last 8 digits of your VIN that would be great as well this way they may actually contact you about the problem if they can't resolve it after 3 tries they have to lemon law the car... or if I get my way...our way... I want the STI 6 speed gear box. You see it would be cheaper for them to replace the tranny with the 6 speed then to give me every penny I paid for the car including interest. Just some food for thought. Send me an e-mail so we can fight this thing together maybe we can get a resolution.

Nick

Thanks Austin.

For we non-US members this forum comes across as a real hoot. If I were a car manufacturer I would avoid selling my cars into such a litigous society for fear of being sued because the carpets were not exactly the right color.

From the first Scooby I owned (six years with them now), as well as the many other manual cars I have driven over the last twenty odd years, I have never owned one here in the UK that you could sensibly push from 2nd to 1st at above 5, maybe 10 if you are lucky. You are asking for something it was never designed to do. You bought it knowing the gear ratios (you did look at the spec, didn't you?) as well as test driving it I assume?

If you think they will replace it with the 6-speed, dream on. This requires different diffs and drive shafts to start with. Not a practical solution. Maybe they can shoe-horn the auto in there for you, no worries then about the down-shift.

Ken
UK

PS: I hope you understand sarcasm.

KenG, I agree with your point regarding the lunacy of this thread but your sarcasm would best be left in the U.K where it is very much needed. I'm happy for you that we here at i-Club can provide you with such entertainment, I guess it's awfully boring back home euh ?, same ole' perfect U.K.
It must be difficult having to go round straightening everyone out all the time telling them like it is through the eyes of your limitless wisdom.
Beware of labeling societies and or people before taking a closer look at your own first. But please come again we would love to be enlightened some more, I know I would.
P.S. Get the sarcasm ?, I bet you did.
Cheers from another typical American.:monkey:
Tom....

^
^
^
Now that is a real hoot!

Actually, I thought Ken's post was pretty funny.

I disagree on the 2-1 downshift speed however. As I've posted I can always get my WRX to slip into 1rst above 30 mph, usually at around 33 mph. Of course I would never engage the clutch at that speed, but it is possible.

It is no problem at all to get it to go into 1rst at a more reasonable speed, like say 15-20 mph.

My car wouldn't shift into first w/o double clutching at anything over 5mph. Had the 1st/2nd gear synchros replaces, and now 20,000 miles later it's still operating flawlessly.

Just like a 5-speed fully synchromeshed transmission should.

Originally posted by KenG
For we non-US members this forum comes across as a real hoot. If I were a car manufacturer I would avoid selling my cars into such a litigous society for fear of being sued because the carpets were not exactly the right color.
..


And Brits feel that it is their lot as consumers to subject themselves to needless and repeated shafting at the hands of various industries - especially the auto makers. Ever wondered why your entire economy is saturated with shoddy quality goods, 99% of which are made in Taiwan? Or why you pay a premium for the exact same cars sold in Europe? Or why the UK has no real industry of it's own any more, except for a few flagging steel mills in Scotland? :rolleyes: US consumers have come to expect, and therefore assert their right to a higher quality product, and our economy reflects this.

Other than poking fun at the expense of some unfortunate WRX owners, did you actually have any constructive contribution to this thread?

-Pace

I almost hate to post here, I DIDN't KNOW that first gear downshifts was an emotional issue (but my wife says I'm stupid that way, so there you go)... anyway... my subie is like other small japanese tranny's that I've driven, to do a first gear downshidt, first shift to neutral, then shift back into second and then straightaway into first. Aligning the second grear synchros and change rods makes the first gesr shift go smooth. I thought everyone already knew this technique. I consider it normal operation. Peace.
Sam

Sam,

Thanks for the post. First I had heard of this technique. I gotta go try it out!

GoodFinder :)

So....when shifting down the gearbox you go...3rd to 2nd, 2nd to neutral, neutral to 2nd, 2nd to neutral, neutral to 1st...and the point of a synchromesh gearbox is? .....sounds a little awkward to me..I think you are achieving the same thing as double clutching...maybe you should listen to your wife... lol

I've got about 9k on my WRX there is still some resitance going into 1st but a couple of things have helped. STI Shifter, kartboy bushings, STI transmission mount, mobil synthetic gear lube and of course I always double clutch(despite the synchromesh).

I've found something that definetely helps if you feel a lot of resistance start to let the clutch out slowly, usually(not every time) it will pop immediately into 1st. If that does not work double clutch again and repeat. This always works...eventually ;-)

I've driven many many manual transmissions. There is certainly something strange about the 1st gear synchros on the 5speed Subaru transmission. Funny the 6 speed STI does not have this problem. If this is the way it's supposed to be why did they design this "feature" out of the 6speed box?

Allan

"So....when shifting down the gearbox you go...3rd to 2nd, 2nd to neutral, neutral to 2nd, 2nd to neutral, neutral to 1st...and the point of a synchromesh gearbox is?"

Why do some people consider stupid rhetorical questions as elegant arguement? You know I don't do this.

I can only think of three or four I've driven, not a useful survey, but every small japanese 5-speed I can remember driving (Honda, Suzuki, Mitsu, other Subies, other makes??) doesn't downshift to first in a manner equal to downshift to other gears. It's sorta hard to remember back that far, but I think old all-syncro four speeds didn't do this. I'm not saying 'right' or 'wrong', I'm just saying pretty common attribute, I think.

On all manual transmissions it IS more difficult to shift into 1st. But, not significantly more difficult. I and many others here have experienced difficulty shifting into 1st at low speed and at low revs.

All we are saying is that "in our collective experience" the Subaru 5sp transmission is difficult to shift into 1st, at least more so than other manufacturers transmissions.

I prefer to think that I was giving you a good natured tongue in cheek jab. But clearly the impact was greater than the intent.

As for rhetoric it was good enough for Aristotle, it is certainly good enough for me.

Please, enlighten us with a more succinct explanation of how you execute your gear change manuever. It's clear, that the first explanation that you gave, left us with more questions than answers!

Allan

;-0

Originally posted by Sam2
... to do a first gear downshidt, first shift to neutral, then shift back into second and then straightaway into first.

Also, for downshift from 3rd,4th,5th to 1st, instead of trying to go right to 1st, rather, first shift into second, and while still holding cluth, then shift to 1st. If this technique seems to help you, then great, if not, then consider this suggestion worth exactly what it cost you.

I once (well, twice actually) owned Saab Sonnett with a freewheel clutch, when in gear and release gas, engine went to idle and could change to any gear without clutch. Only time clutch needed was complete stop. Clutch useful for best acceleration up-shifts. Freewheel could be defeated with a lever if engine braking desired (for snow or whatever). I don't know why freewheel clutch designs have never become more common.

And I would like to apologize for this...

But re-iterating my argument, sorry I am about to yell again :)

I CAN'T GET MY CAR INTO FIRST GEAR AT 2-3MPH!!!!!! WHITHOUT IT GOING GGGGRRRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNDDDDDDD!!!!!! IT WILL EVEN DO THIS SOMTIMES AT ALMOST A COMPLETE STOP!!
AND YES THE CLUTCH IS COMPLETELY DEPRESSED!!!!

I'm 32 not 16, 17,18 etc. not my first car was a stick 79 Datsun 510 4 door hatchback to be exact. I beat the living piss outa that car and never once had a problem with the tranny and I put 250,000 miles on that little beast. The way I drove it, it should have fallen apart, as I look back in retrospect.

My Scooby is a show car I drive it "quickly" not abusively hell it's a freakin sports car! I have also owned:
All stick shifts:
79 Porche 924
92 Mazda 626 LX
94 Nissan Sentra XE
81 BMW Alpina
(3) VW sand rails years are not applicable here if you know what I mean :)

Even the VW didn't grind when I was down shifting into first while sliding around a corner so I could throw mass amounts of mud sand gravel what ever I was traveling over at the moment :)

And I know I wasn't easy on those things we used to do everything we could to break them :) "Timex" I guess and FUN!!!

Now if I drove my Scooby like that I could understand having problems, I DON'T!

I had the gears fixed and about 7000 miles or so later the problem was back and instead of Subaru acknowledging a problem the tried to say "It must be the way you drive, not that you beat on your car just that you don't know how to properly drive a stick shift" yeah right. The Nation service manager even said "I drive my WRX spiritedly and I can down shift into first at 5-10MPH"

We went back and forth for awhile and I tired of dealing with his repeating himself and me repeating myself and gave up with him. So now I am compiling all the posts and e-mails of people to mount an all out assault on SOA. It wont be for a couple of months but I think I will have enough to at least get some kind of response to the transmission problem even if it's better gears.

I'm tired and need sleep good night for now.

Nick

Here's a solution: learn to drive.

Sorry, but this is stupid. I keep reading about all these old cars that people CLAIM to just jam into first at any old speed without hurting the tranny. Right.

My Rex drops into 1st at speed quite easily with proper technique. It doesn't with improper technique. That's not a defective box, I'm just not a defective driver. If you don't want to learn to use a manual transmission properly, get an auto.

I posted my own thread on this here (http://i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174535) ... As usual, I got a lot of the "you don't know how to drive, it is supposed to be that way" responses.

To go along with the small Japanese car aspect of this, I had a '91 Honda Prelude for 7 years, and I could shift into first going 30 MPH easily. The car had 120,000 miles on it when I got rid of it, still on the original clutch and tranmission. The car was going strong when I sold it(I miss it now:( ).

NIN, it's great what you are doing, and you will be getting a PM from me shortly!

:monkey: <-- Subaru transmission

Originally posted by chmoorewrx
Here's a solution: learn to drive.

Sorry, but this is stupid.

You're right: it's stupid to suggest that people who's cars have this problem don't know how to drive.

Would Suburu have replaced my 1st/2nd gears if the problem was with my driving? No, of course not.

Does your transmission have this problem? No, or you'd be complaining too.


My Rex drops into 1st at speed quite easily with proper technique. It doesn't with improper technique. That's not a defective box, I'm just not a defective driver. If you don't want to learn to use a manual transmission properly, get an auto.

Yeah, but mine wouldn't go into 1st even with the proper technique. That's the point. This is a mechanical problem.

If your car doesn't have it, consider yourself lucky--not superior.

-Dave

Any updates?

As soon as I get somthing worth while to post I will get it to everyone ASAP.

Nick

Well, I think I'll jump on the bandwagon for this issue too! I've had my WRX for 13 months and I've had the balky 2nd-into-1st issue since I drove the car off the lot !!! I've had many "small Japanese cars", and have driven the hell out of every one, putting over 100k miles on each, and have NEVER had ANY transmission issues with any of them. Now, I've been aware of this tranny issue since the first month of ownership, and I've been careful not to drop the clutch, force the car into gear, and have tried all sorts of "expert driver" tricks to get the tranny to act smoothly, but without success.

I agree with those of us who find this an unacceptable transmission glitch in any car, let alone a high-performance vehicle that has been marketted as one that can be driven enthusiastically and at the limit (isn't that what the sexy TV ads and the complimentary SCCA membership convey).

For those of you who think it odd that someone would want to downshift from 2nd-into-1st, you must not have many hairpin turns in your autocross courses, or you just don't care about obtaining low times.

For those of you who feel that this is an acceptable quirk of all Subarus, it is just this complacent attitude that has allowed Subaru to get away with such a crappy design flaw. With the increasing popularity and market share Subaru is enjoying with their products it is time they act like a global auto manufacturer and correct the common problems that were inherent in their "niche" vehicles.

Christ, you would never find a similar problem to be so long-lasting and ignored by Audi, BMW, Toyota, Honda, or even Chrysler, nor would you find such a cadre of owners that have been so accepting of an obviously poorly designed tranny! Can you imagine an M3 owner speaking understandingly about his inability to downshift in his car???

NIN, I will PM you my particulars soon.

BTW, does this problem happen with the 6-speed as well???
:p

Can you imagine an M3 owner speaking understandingly about his inability to downshift in his car???

I work with one, he sits right next to me in the office. We have not only talked cars, but have swapped cars. He also has a M5 and a M6 (grey market - European bumpers and German guages, so sweet). None of his cars shift to first easily while moving...

I'm not saying some of you don't have a real problem, and yes, I do consider myself lucky that my car seems to work as I expected. However, when someone says: "tried all sorts of "expert driver" tricks to get the tranny to act smoothly" followed by this: "For those of you who think it odd that someone would want to downshift from 2nd-into-1st, you must not have many hairpin turns in your autocross courses" it just rubs me the wrong way. Executing a hair pin turn on an autocross course is an "expert driver" maneuver...:rolleyes:

Have you brought your transmission problem up with your dealer? If it's a real problem that can be repeated there is no reason you should not be getting it fixed.

Sorry for the double post as I this was posted in the transmission forum in response to a similar thread.
First let me clarify myself by saying that I love my WRX and have nothing but praise for the most part. However, the issue of shifting into first at speeds over 2 mph really bothers me. I want to have my car checked but everyone on this board seems to believe that not being able to shift into first without some sort of double clutching, rev matching, etc.... is normal. To clarify this it is not normal... My most recent car was a 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S. I have also owned a older Celica, as well as a manual Ford and Saturn. None, let me repeat, none of these cars gave me any trouble with shifting into first at a (reasonable) speed. There was no rev matching, double clutching, putting car in different gears first to accomplish this. Even the 2000 Celica could shift into first at 25-30 with NO PROBLEM.
Sorry if it seems that I am angry but sometimes it gets frustrating riding the clutch in 2nd in order to get moving from 5-10 mph, especially on hills or when someone is right behind you. In my opinion there is something definately wrong with at least my car, and I will most likely bring it in for service, although I am not optimistic about the service I will receive based on prior posts. I also have trouble with reverse as I have to play with the shifter and try 2 or 3 times to get it to go into gear. To me, this does not seem normal as none of my previous cars were this difficult to put into reverse. Like I said, I love my WRX but my next manual car will not be a Subaru unless I can get this issue resolved. Sorry for the long (and first) post

Any wisdom on the 2nd-to-1st grinding when the car is stationary? It occasionally surprises/irritates me when I'm putting it in gear from a complete stop. Also, the 2nd-to-1st shift when coasting under 5 mph is not as it should be. Seems similar to what others have described.

I do now think something needs to be remedied. I'll probably get my dealer involved. However, it's extremely inconvenient as the dealer is 2.5 hours away. I'm also wondering what complications a transmission R&R might cause. That's why I've been willing to live with the problem for months.

(I have 40 years of driving experience including 10 years of racing. 98% with manual transmission-equipped vehicles. Have owned more than 30 cars, trucks and motorcycles including two other Subarus.)

Happy Motoring :cool:

Good posts. At the risk of being redundant, I have 25 years (and approx. 750k miles) experience driving manual trans vehicles. None of them have had a problem downshifting into first at any speed under say 25 mph.

My WRX will actually downshift to first at 32-33 mph. See my post on page 5 of this thread. Needless to say I would not actually engage the clutch at that speed but it is possible.

Alright, here's my idea of getting it fixed. Go to your dealership give them a ride in your car and demonstrate that it doesn't go into first when moving. Then hop in one of their new cars and do the same thing, if it goes into first, make them fix your car, if it doesn't, then quit whining and move on...

Sounds simple enough...

Originally posted by jhonas
Alright, here's my idea of getting it fixed. Go to your dealership give them a ride in your car and demonstrate that it doesn't go into first when moving. Then hop in one of their new cars and do the same thing, if it goes into first, make them fix your car, if it doesn't, then quit whining and move on...

Sounds simple enough... Except that there's no guarantee that the new cars on the lot will shift into first. I tried what you suggested w/the head tech at the local dealer when I got mine repaired - of the three on the lot, one had no problems, one wouldn't shift into first at even 5mph, and the other would grind at anything above 10mph.

Doesn't matter.

All the literature Subaru has published about the MY02 WRX/RS says that it has a five speed fully synchromeshed transmission. That means that it should slide into first gear if you give the synchros time to work.

Originally posted by Ken Levin
Any wisdom on the 2nd-to-1st grinding when the car is stationary? ...

Ken, what you're describing sounds pretty far out of the 'typical' range. (I almost used the word 'normal', but knew that would draw flames). Suggest have it looked at. Dealer 2+ hours away, you have a tranny shop or a local service shop you trust? Then if its something costly drive the 2+ hrs with 2nd opinion already in-hand for the warrenty work.

Sam2 -

Yes, it's neither normal nor typical. However, it hasn't happened enough to warrant warranty work .. yet. I do plan to inform my dealer.

I had hoped someone with similar experience would comment. I remember there being at least one mention of it on this thread. Perhaps it's the dreaded slave cylinder bubble. :confused:

Happy Motoring!

i got 1100 miles on my wrx. >50% of time it grind when shift to reverse. the solution? i shift before i start the engine!
and now i wont even dare try shift from 2nd to 1 after hearing what u guys say, altho mine doesnt grind if i do it very very very gently.
I think we need to publicize this to the media, like car magazine or something so subaru will deal with it, either through a recall or something. We need consumer review, edmunds to know about the problem so next time someone buy the car they know about the behaviour(if not design flaw) of the gearbox.
fyi, this is my first subaru.

Originally posted by hkingkong
i got 1100 miles on my wrx. >50% of time it grind when shift to reverse. the solution? i shift before i start the engine!
and now i wont even dare try shift from 2nd to 1 after hearing what u guys say, altho mine doesnt grind if i do it very very very gently.
I think we need to publicize this to the media, like car magazine or something so subaru will deal with it, either through a recall or something. We need consumer review, edmunds to know about the problem so next time someone buy the car they know about the behaviour(if not design flaw) of the gearbox.
fyi, this is my first subaru.

You got a point there :D it might just work and we all get new
gears.

I have the same problem with reverse......there is something that sometimes helps.....as you pull the shifter gently back into reverse and feel resistance like it's going to stick or grind....very slowly start to let the clutch out...9 times out of 10 mine pops right into reverse!!

This sometimes works when the car won't go into first while stationary too!!!

Before anybody flames me!!

I know this is only a workaround SOA should fix these gearbox problems....too many people have reported this now for it to be anything other than a design problem[SIC].

We can't ALL be shifting incorrectly can we?

For the record. I double clutch on EVERY gear shift....and have twenty years of experience driving manual transmissions.....so i'm pretty damn sure I'm doing it right!!!!

Why double clutch on every shift?

Sorry....I should better qualify that statement.....just on the down shifts!!!

Clearly, this problem isn't related to all cars, so publicizing your particular problem and instigating a recall wouldn't help those of us who have transmissions that:

Go into reverse first time, every time.
Never grind.
Go into first at any speed below 25 mph (above 25, second is fine)
Slot into gear neatly while stationary, from 2-1.

I have over 19,000 miles on the car, fyi.

I'm sorry that the folks who are having problems are having to deal with that stuff. But the presumption that every Subaru has that problem, and therefore the car/gearbox/company must be flawed, is erroneous.

Kevin

Kevin is right as far I'm concerned. Even though my car is exhibiting symptoms, I don't think bad-mouthing Subarus or SOA is the way to go. If you have a problem, take it to the dealer and deal with it on an individual basis.

Not every car has the problem, so a recall is not in order. Some on this thread have already had the problem fixed by Subaru without making too big a fuss. Then too, the bigger the stink, the lower the resale value on our Subarus will be. Not that I have any intention of ever selling my WRX, with or without the grinding. ;)

Happy Motoring

>"I'm sorry that the folks who are having problems are having to deal with that stuff. But the presumption that every Subaru has that problem, and therefore the car/gearbox/company must be flawed, is erroneous."

I guess the thing is, those of us without problems think like this, but those unhappy with their shifting think differently.

I never even thought of trying it until somebody posted it above, I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, can engage shift to first at 30 mph (given bit of patience and a throttle blib. Even at stop , mine doesn't just slide into first). I guess part of the question/problem here is this - as far as I can tell, what I've been told is - "Subaru Tranny's Do This". The question/problem is, what part of it is 'mechanically-based', and what part is 'expectation-based'. I do not claim to know the answer.

However, it would seem if there was pervuasive mechanical problem and one clear-cut mechanical fix, then this thread would have shown it by now. Pattern of mechanical problem/fix is not evident, at least to me.

Whatever. I hope those having problems are able to resolve the problem to their satisfaction. I think the best way to approach that is locally and individually. If dissatisfied, then escalate the problem one layer/level at a time. In my experience, the higher you go, the less they care about satisfying you individually.

Would suggest Subaru car dealer service may not be the only or best place to go. My personal opionion of average dealer service dept is not good. If not for 'sales', would the 'service' be in business? Most cases clearly "No!". Suggest best service is from places that services autos as their only business.

Good-luck and god-speed!

I've had my car for little over 6 months. After a month or two, I said the same thing: it's not defective, just learn how to drive! But the symptom got a bit worse after that. I get the grinding more often now when shifting from 2nd to 1st. It sometimes happens when not moving at all, when I try to shift right after a complete stop. For more than 17 years I have been driving nothing but manual cars so I know how to drive a manual car. This can't be normal.
I hope this issue gets the attention of SOA.

Doug

QUIT WHINING!

It makes the Subaru reps jaded, and they become initially suspicious when people come to them with REAL problems.

Learn to double-clutch. The Subaru tranny is not very nice, but it gets the job done AND THEY ALL COME THAT WAY.

You are wasting everybody's time, and you are thinning SOA's resources. I want them to be generous when I have a genuine warranty claim, and I don't want you dipping into that pool of money on some nonsense tranny swapping exercise.

Originally posted by hkingkong
i got 1100 miles on my wrx. >50% of time it grind when shift to reverse. the solution? i shift before i start the engine! [b]

1. Go to www.howstuffworks.com and look up manual transmission
2. Put the clutch in and HOLD IT THERE for a few seconds to allow the shaft to spin down. Shift into reverse. 100% of the time it will NOT grind.

[b]fyi, this is my first subaru.

:rolleyes:

A bit testy, eh?!

They don't "All come that way". Mine works fine.

My guess is that human nature being what it is, we aren't hearing from the owners whose WRX's are perfect.

Originally posted by Necromancer
[b]Learn to double-clutch. The Subaru tranny is not very nice, but it gets the job done AND THEY ALL COME THAT WAY.It wouldn't hurt to tone it down Necro.

They *don't* all come that way, and it's *not* how they're made!

My RS - it shifts fine into first gear at any speed in first gear's range if you give the synchros a second to work... No double clutching, no rev matching... in other words, it acts just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should.

My wrx - As it came from the factory, it wouldn't shift into first gear while moving without double clutching. Even with double clutching, you had to be spot on perfect or you'd grind. I had the first and second gear synchros replace by the dealer. Since it's been repaired, it shifts just like the RS - just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should shift.

Originally posted by sajohnson

My guess is that human nature being what it is, we aren't hearing from the owners whose WRX's are perfect.


Actually I think it's more like this...

There have been over 16,000 WRX's sold nationwide and we have a very small percentage on this site. Fortunately most of them are reporting a problem. Which in turn means that it is not an isolated incident where only a few people are having this problem.


Nick

Originally posted by Austin
It wouldn't hurt to tone it down Necro.

They *don't* all come that way, and it's *not* how they're made!

My RS - it shifts fine into first gear at any speed in first gear's range if you give the synchros a second to work... No double clutching, no rev matching... in other words, it acts just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should.

My wrx - As it came from the factory, it wouldn't shift into first gear while moving without double clutching. Even with double clutching, you had to be spot on perfect or you'd grind. I had the first and second gear synchros replace by the dealer. Since it's been repaired, it shifts just like the RS - just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should shift.


Here's my guess as to what's going on.

As with most manual transmissions downshifting into 1st puts
added stress on the tranny.

I believe the problem is worse in the rex due to:

* lots of power
* too widely spaced 1st and 2nd gear (meant to allow you to
acheive 60 in 2nd and guarantee the precious 0-60 time in less
than 6 seconds)
* weak syncros.

I think the syncros wear esp. if you don't double clutch and eventually you reach a point wherein they refuse to allow the 2,1
downshift.

My preffered solution?

Free six speeds for everyone.:alien:

Meanwhile back on the planet earth -
I recommend you double clutch the 2/1 shift and be gentle with it,
and hopefully the problem won't materalize for you.
That's what I do, and so far (15k+ miles) my 2-1 shift works fine.

Originally posted by strangerq



Here's my guess as to what's going on.

As with most manual transmissions downshifting into 1st puts
added stress on the tranny.

I believe the problem is worse in the rex due to:

* lots of power
* too widely spaced 1st and 2nd gear (meant to allow you to
acheive 60 in 2nd and guarantee the precious 0-60 time in less
than 6 seconds)
* weak syncros.




It's amazing that even when someone try's to say were all wrong for wanting the problem fixed that guess what? They end up saying the tranny is "weak", "Badly designed", or "They're all that way" lets get it together people.

1. I understand there are a few people out there that are learning how to drive a stick properly and there are some out there that abuse the car.

2. I didn't start this thread to actually try to get a 6 Speed, it would be nice, but I doubt it.

3. I just want to get this resolved. By the end of summer I should have the time to get my new gears in the car. Then you know what? We will just have to see if someone else can build a better gear box than Subaru.

4. When I prove that there is a better designed gear out there that won't produce this problem. I would have to guess that there is only on step after this.

5. We shall see what Subaru has to say to my lawyer. When he slaps them with a class action lawsuit for not resolving a known problem for the Impreza line-up of cars.

6. And to all you supporters of this "WEAK" gear box :monkey:


Nick

Mine grinds on 2-1 downshift randomly - for 4 different experienced stick drivers in my family.

It seems to happen more often when driving the car for a while, so it could be that the heat over time thins out the fluid, causing pressure loss and erratic clutch control. I admit that I certainly am no mechanic. The heat problem was the case on my Grand National - after a few runs smoking Vettes and Mustangs, the tranny would start to slip a little on the shifts (yes, it's an auto- not a stick). A big external (secondary) tranny cooler fixed the slipping ...

Keep it up Nick!

Is this 2-1 downshift problem possibly brought on by the fact that the WRX has a turbocharged engine that makes little torque down low in the rev range?

If people are saying that they're have problems in traffic, I mean most cars can be brought up to speed from a standstill in second gear. Can this not be done in the WRX? Is the compression of the motor too low for a comfortable second gear start from a near-standstill, where the turbo is not on boost?

I'm asking because of a couple reasons:

I have a '99 M3 coming off lease and am seriously considering getting a WRX. I think it's the next E30 BMW M3. The '99 M3 has plenty of torque down low and I almost never go to first, even in bumper to bumper traffic (but I do when it comes to a dead stop). My rule of thumb is start in second if the car is rolling at all. Will the Subie disappoint me? Can it not do this?

I guess what I'm saying is I can't understand downshifting to first while the car is still moving. It's not like it's a performance situation; it usually just means you're coming to a stop. Why wear on the clutch/engine/gearbox like that?

I've driven a couple of WRX's and don't remember noticing a problem. Looks like I'll have to check it out.

edit: Would Redline MTL in the gearbox help? I've seen it work wonders in BMW gearboxes!

My rule of thumb is start in second if the car is rolling at all. Will the Subie disappoint me? Can it not do this?

Go drive one, if you can shift the car into first at reasonable speeds to you, then you found a good one!
The torque from ~1K-2.3K is on par with many small four cylinder cars, definitely feels anemic compared to the power this motor puts out at higher rpm's. However, mine is able to pull second gear from speeds above 5mph or so (bumper to bumper traffic). I am also able to downshift to first if I rev match...so I guess I got lucky.
Bottom line is to test drive the car you intend to drive off the lot to see if it is acceptable to you.

My WRX does this as did my 2000 Honda Civic EX coupe with a 5 speed in it. The 1987 Honda Accord sedan with a 5 speed did not do this, but it had 117k miles on it when I bought it. My WRX and Civic both had problems going into Reverse as well. The Civic still had issues with both after 45k miles and as the WRX still does after 7k miles.

I would say it is normal.

If you are sitting at a light, going into 2nd then into 1st before you pull off. Not sure exactly how this helps, but you can tell a difference pushing the shifter into 1st. I think the ratios are lining up better this way.

I'm pretty sure the Subaru's have Closed syncro's in first and reverse and open syncro's every else. I beleive this is a design trait not a problem!!

sometimes when im rolling at like 5mph i cant get into 1st gear! thats def. not good, i have to be at a dead stop to put it in 1st gear

I have been able to drive my WRX the way you describe driving your M3--starting in 2nd gear as long as the car is moving. I'm sure that the M3 has loads more torque down low however.

I have found that there are situations where I prefer to shift into 1rst though. For example, a slow corner where I want more acceleration coming out than 2nd gear will provide at 10-15 mph. Luckily, my WRX has absolutely no trouble with the 2-1 downshift at any speed up to 25-30 mph. Just out of curiousity I've even been able to get it into first with just light pressure on the shifter at 32-33 mph (of course I didn't engage the clutch at that speed).

I think some drivers expect the 2-1 shift to be lightning fast and it isn't--it can take 1-2 seconds of steady light pressure on the shifter.

I'm pretty sure the Subaru's have Closed syncro's in first and reverse and open syncro's every else.

There are no syncros in reverse.

I live in NY. I drive in traffic all the time. I don't baby my car, but I don't beat it to death either. The fact of the matter is, whether you own a WRX or a Ferrari, it is a car and has limitations. If you know the car doesn't shift well into 1st from 2nd, why not accept this and figure out a work around?

I now have 4500 miles on my car and have had no problems. I realize that in no means that I will never have any problems, but so far so good.

Drive with some sense fellas. It's a production Subaru, not a Ferrari F-50. Don't be like the midget who expects to dunk over Michael Jordan. Know your limitations.

Free 6 speed trannies are a wish that we all have, but a pipe dream nonetheless.

In the words of Frederick Douglas "You may not get all that you pay for, but you will certainly pay for all that you get".

And in the words of Robert Blake while playing the part of Barretta in the late 70's TV series of the same name, "You can take that to da bank".

Originally posted by DRMADLAB
Drive with some sense fellas. It's a production Subaru, not a Ferrari F-50. Don't be like the midget who expects to dunk over Michael Jordan. Know your limitations.

Funny the way things are going, I suspect my limitation is due to all luck and no skill. In other words, I may be able to downshift today, I may not tommorow. And when I can't downshift it's just the limitation that subaru built into the car because they just don't know any better, and I should have (known better) before I bought the thing.

Oh, and to expand on your analogy: I didn't order a midget thinking it would dunk on Jordan, I asked for Larry.

when I first got my WRX I couldnt go from second to first,
even if I was in second, slowing to go over a speed bump then trying to get it into first, because I was hardly moving
second the car bogs, even going throug a security gate where you roll through, but not even at 1 MPH
it was annoying, but I have 20K on the car! now it is fine
I think i only noticed it in the winter when i left for work
now it 100 degrees in the AM, so i dont notice
What I do hate about this car, is that I cant stop driving the darn thing :) maybe its the Hydraulic fluid in the Clutch,
Sometimes I used to double clutch, the WRX clutch is not cable like other cars
maybe first as reverse are just that way. So I can go into first going over a speed bump, but every so often I get that stupid
reverse grind, and putting into second doesnt always correct it
maybe its the design of the slave or master cylinders
maybe these trannies wouldnt blow if they has stronger hydrolics
in addition to the clutch?

just a thought

cheers

I'm meeting the SOA rep about this problem tomorrow. My first gear grinds fom neutral at a stop. I've never drag raced with this car. I'll let you know what SOA says.

Hey everyone. I sincerely apologize to anyone who is having a real problem with their car. I was never referring to anyone who has a legit mechanical problem. But I think all of us would agree that there are those who abuse what they drive whether it be a Kia or a Bentley, or anything in between.

Since I've read this thread, I have been concious of when I shift and how I shift. I mean hey. I am the first to acknowledge that I don't know every muthaeffin thing.

While I still don't have any problems going from 2nd to 1st, I have noticed that sometimes getting my car into reverse takes some doing. Since I had the same problem with my 98' Outback Sport, I simply chalked it up to being a "Subaru thing".

Let me know if anything materializes with the SOA meeting.

Thanks.

P.S. Typing seems to be a lot easier than talking when one's foot is in his mouth.

Cheaper to put in a 6 spd tranny? You forgot little details like federal type approval.

Originally posted by NIN2001
OK... I need everyone here that has a new WRX that is having this tranny issue to e-mail me. I am going to go to my regional Subaru rep this month. I had to wait for a month and a half for her to drive my car because the mechanics assesment of the situation wasn't good enough for Subaru Tech. Crap I tell you, well please send me and e-mail if you are experiencing the same trouble as many of us are send and e-mail to Nick@WRXTuner.com I would like to take as many cases of this problem with me if you can include the last 8 digits of your VIN that would be great as well this way they may actually contact you about the problem if they can't resolve it after 3 tries they have to lemon law the car... or if I get my way...our way... I want the STI 6 speed gear box. You see it would be cheaper for them to replace the tranny with the 6 speed then to give me every penny I paid for the car including interest. Just some food for thought. Send me an e-mail so we can fight this thing together maybe we can get a resolution.

Nick

Cheaper to put in a 6 spd tranny? You forgot little details like federal type approval.

Originally posted by NIN2001
OK... I need everyone here that has a new WRX that is having this tranny issue to e-mail me. I am going to go to my regional Subaru rep this month. I had to wait for a month and a half for her to drive my car because the mechanics assesment of the situation wasn't good enough for Subaru Tech. Crap I tell you, well please send me and e-mail if you are experiencing the same trouble as many of us are send and e-mail to Nick@WRXTuner.com I would like to take as many cases of this problem with me if you can include the last 8 digits of your VIN that would be great as well this way they may actually contact you about the problem if they can't resolve it after 3 tries they have to lemon law the car... or if I get my way...our way... I want the STI 6 speed gear box. You see it would be cheaper for them to replace the tranny with the 6 speed then to give me every penny I paid for the car including interest. Just some food for thought. Send me an e-mail so we can fight this thing together maybe we can get a resolution.

Nick

Kingfan---I think Redline 70NS90 does help shifting, even the second to first low speed shift (and I think the STI ss kit with kartboy bushings help too). We all know this tranny doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence (the tranny whine off throttle isn't exacly a comforting sound), but it appears sufficient so far for most cars, except for the 2nd to first issue, and most buyers, at least on this web site, were aware of the tranny limitations and the fact this tranny apparantly was designed years ago for cars with far less horsepower than the WRX. You know, everyone thinks the 6 speed is a panacea, but given the history of Subaru and their trannys I think the jury is out even on the new 6-speed. Porsche and BMW,e.g. have devoted years and years and tons of money to develop transmissions commensurate with their motors. I just don't think Subaru has that history. I hope they will develop a more worthy tranny for this car now that they have a foothold in our market for high performance cars. I wouldn't be surprised if they started putting the 6-speed in all WRXs in the future and just forget about this old 5 speed design. Most customers would gladly pay a little more in a WRX to have that tranny. The U.S. customers will be more demanding perhaps than the rest of the world and maybe that's a good thing.

Originally posted by Oldnslow
Kingfan---I think Redline 70NS90 does help shifting, even the second to first low speed shift (and I think the STI ss kit with kartboy bushings help too). We all know this tranny doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence (the tranny whine off throttle isn't exacly a comforting sound), but it appears sufficient so far for most cars, except for the 2nd to first issue, and most buyers, at least on this web site, were aware of the tranny limitations and the fact this tranny apparantly was designed years ago for cars with far less horsepower than the WRX. You know, everyone thinks the 6 speed is a panacea, but given the history of Subaru and their trannys I think the jury is out even on the new 6-speed. Porsche and BMW,e.g. have devoted years and years and tons of money to develop transmissions commensurate with their motors. I just don't think Subaru has that history. I hope they will develop a more worthy tranny for this car now that they have a foothold in our market for high performance cars. I wouldn't be surprised if they started putting the 6-speed in all WRXs in the future and just forget about this old 5 speed design. Most customers would gladly pay a little more in a WRX to have that tranny. The U.S. customers will be more demanding perhaps than the rest of the world and maybe that's a good thing.

The 5-speed in the WRX is better than the 5-speed was in my 93 RX-7 Twin Turbo.

If the STI repalces the WRX (likely), look for no changes to the WRX. (BTW, expect the STI to be priced about the same as a 350Z and expect it to eprform as well.)

European customers, judging from English magazines, are more demanding than we are.

If that STI really looks like that picture that was on I-club a few days ago, they can keep it as far as I'm concerned. I would rather keep my present car and modify it so performs even better than that ugly contraption.

On top of it all, I hear all this talk about "limited availability". If it looks like the car I saw, for me it couldn't be limited enough.

Looks like I'll be entering the new STI on the same list as PT Cruiser, Mitsubishi Lancer, and Pontiac Aztec on my list of ugly ***** I'd never buy.