I really don't understand all the STi hype that's been going around. It looks like it will have about 265 hp, and should come in at somewhere around 30-35K, maybe a bit more with dealer mark-ups. Why is everyone drolling so much to get their hands on this car?

Take a stock US WRX, add in 1/2 the price difference between it and a US STi, (buy a unichip, exhaust, etc.) and you'll have a car that will kick the living hell out of the US STi in a straight line. Add a bit more money for suspension bits, and you'll be right up there in the twisties too! I doubt subaru will sell a 30K+ car w/out a sunroof, so the STi could easily be HEAVIER than a stock WRX.

So in terms of dollar for performance, and outright performance, you'd be better off with a WRX. Sure, if you modded the STi still more, it could be made as fast or faster than a WRX. But who wants to pay 30-35K for a car that needs additional work just to keep up? The only real advantage I can see with an STi is the 6 speed, but I don't think that's worth the price difference and I'm sure these trannies will be readily available from wrecking yards byt the time the STi reaches the US.

I'm not flaming, but can someone explain this fascination with the STi to me? If we were getting the full JDM version, that would be different. But the de-contented product that will ultimate reach the US just doesn't seem worth all the fuss. Why would anyone pay between 5 and 10K more for this car apart from bragging rights or unless they have no interest in modding their car?

I don't know about anyone else...but i'd trade in my WRX for an STI...mmmmmm STI!! :D

The only real advantage I can see with an STi is the 6 speed, but I don't think that's worth the price difference and I'm sure these trannies will be readily available from wrecking yards byt the time the STi reaches the US.

And a HUGE advantage it is. :D That is the biggest advantage in my eyes, but there are others such as huge brakes, awesome suspension, AVCS, front lsd, the seats-- should I go on?

All of this stuff is worth 30-35K to me, might not be to others but to me it will be well worth it.

Sure, build up your WRX, but you will be hitting 30K in no time and it won't even come close to equaling the STi in everything (i.e. total package braking, handling and power) :) Could Imprezer's WRX take on an STi? Hell yes, but I would bet he paid over 30K for the entire package. Correct me if I'm wrong... :)

Plus there may a sense of "limited editon" wants going on here, I can't say that for myself- but the STi most likely will be a very rare vehicle indeed. Not high on my list of reasons- but may be high on others.

This is just like the posts by RS owners way back when:

"Why are you so obsessed with the WRX??" :lol:

JJ
www.imprezawrxsti.com
All STi, All The Time

I think for around 30K you could have a WRX that will be faster than a US STI in a straight line, and almost as good of a handler. 2500 will get you a unichip and exhaust, which should give you about 280 hp safely. Another 2500 could be spent on tires, shocks and struts, etc. This is assuming the STi comes in on the low end of the range (30K). A big IF I think.

For 35K, you could put together a WRX that would equal or beat a stock US STi (depending on final STi spec.) in every performance category I think. (Of course this is all speculation until the final spec and price are known. But my point is, STi level performance or better is already here! Why wait and pay extra?)

I hope we get the brakes, AVCS, etc. but after seeing how "de-contented" the WRX is vs. the UK WRX, I'm not holding my breath.

As for collectability, can't say it's at the top of my list, but then again I'm a freak, so...:D

The only reason I want the STi over the WRX is the 6-speed tranny. Right now they are using the same tranny on the open class subies in america and they are holding upwards of 380hp. That peace of mind is enough for me to want the STi.

Cheers,
Al

yeah, the biggest difference is the tranny, anything else could be done easily. that freaking strong 6 speed will take you to the next level of power, you will see....

i still love my WRX, it's cheaper :lol:

Sure you could mod the WRX up to the standards of the STI but why not spend the extra money to get the STI then take the difference in the amount of money that it would take to get the WRX up to STI standards and mod the STI. You start out with a lot more car for a small amount more money. :devil:

A unichip and a exhaust = 280 hp? That's a 73 hp improvement over stock. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The best thing about the Impreza WRX STi is it is a complete and properly designed and engineered car, from bumper to bumper.

It was engineered for 280 HP and engineered to handle the extra power. It can stop and turn appropriately!

It was not built by some 16 year old (or 36!) kid with a NOPI catalog in a garage on a Saturday morning with metric tools, who thinks they are smarter than an automotive engineer.

It will start when it is cold, it will start when it is hot, it will start when it is raining. It will not explode. It will not catch on fire. The CE light will not be on 90% of the time. It comes with a warranty and it will actually have resale value. What a concept.

I think I will have to buy one, blue please, with gold wheels and a very big spoiler. Thank you very much.

When pricing on the US WRX was announced last January, some here proposed similar arguments about how the 2.5RS could be turbo'd to out-perform a WRX and still have money left over.

According to the UK STi press release (http://www.subaru.co.uk/news/sti_press_release.htm ), "Up to 80 per cent of the STi’s all-alloy engine is new compared to the standard turbocharged 2.0 litre four-cam ‘boxer’ unit as fitted to the regular Impreza WRX." You're not going to be able to "mod" your WRX engine up to STi quality very easily.

I want one.

If I am not mistaken I think the JDM STI, do have variable timing, more efficient intercooler, variable central-diff, not to mention the Brembo brakes. Correct me if I am wrong.

And I want you're mom.... again

lol. them be fighting words! :lol:

STI
6 speed gearbox
variable intake valves
limited slip front wheels
lot stronger built motor,pistons,block
ball bearing turbo
larger intercooler (50 mils wider)
full suspension
17" wheels
RESALE RESALE RESALE
add your own 3"exhaust & unichip 330hp reliable.

take a look and you will believe!

http://downloads.nsis.co.uk/chrisb/sti/index.htm

Please check out This Thread (http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110172)

Thanks,
Mario

Originally posted by snookem
STI
6 speed gearbox
variable intake valves
limited slip front wheels
lot stronger built motor,pistons,block
ball bearing turbo
larger intercooler (50 mils wider)
full suspension
17" wheels


Maximum,

If you want to know more about the difference between "normal" WRX and the (JDM) STi, you might want to get a hold of this book:
"New Subaru Impreza STi Perfect Guide" by HyperREV. ISBN4-89107-045-5. It was published late 2000, so it won't reflect the new year model already out in Japan.

It sells for 950 yens in Japan... probably about US$14 if you get it through some Japanese bookstores in the US like Kinokuniya. You can also order direct from them through their website, but its more expensive...

Oh, by the way, the book is completely in Japanese, but the pictures tell you quite a lot already...

Statements like:In order to meet the stringent Euro3 exhaust emission levels, the catalyst is uprated, the air-fuel ratio sensor modified and special multi-hole fuel-injectors fitted.andThe STi has a top speed of 148 mph and 0-60 mph time of 5.2 seconds from an engine which has been specially developed to meet European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval standards - unlike the Japanese home-market STi. Prices will be announced closer to the January 2002 on-sale-date.about the Euro-spec STi shown at the Frankfurt auto show in September lead me to believe that any US-spec STi will more closely resemble the Euro version than the JDM version, which was also true for the base WRX. So, references to JDM STi specs, particularly to older versions, are not very germane to a discussion about the merits of a possible US-spec STi versus the current US-spec WRX.

Interesting stuff. Here I go:

HondaSlayer, unless I am very much mistaken, 280-227=53. That's 53 HP over stock, NOT 73 hp. Check your math before you start :rolleyes:ing people. :D Is a gain of 53 HP doable with a unichip and a turbo back exhaust? Methinks yes, pretty easily since a good exhaust can give anywhere frm 10-20 HP alone. TurboXS's stage one kit, which is comprised of a Unichip, 2.5 muffler and K&N filter puts out a claimed 265 HP. That's without even replacing the downpipe, one of the most restrictive parts of the stock exhaust. Add a down pipe and up the boost a touch and 280 is right there.

Generally: The point I was considering was not whether the STi is superior in terms of technology and ultimate HP when modified, etc. It is, no question. My point was that for about 30K or so you could have a WRX that would nuke a stock STi in a straight line and not be too far behind in the corners. (i.e. add some new struts, springs, etc.) A sufficiently modded WRX can outperform a stock STi, no problem. Let's not forget that the STi and the WRX have the same chassis. The STi just has different suspension pieces, a strut brace, different wheels/tires, harder bushings, firmer suspension, and a few other bits, etc. (How many of these things will we actually get???) So I guess I'm mystified as to why everyone is so excited over the STi coming, when we already have a car that, with some judicious tuning, is faster than a stock STi.

For example, nmyeti put the following mods into his WRX:

Pe1820
Sti injectors
supra TT fuel pump
Turboxs unichip
scoobysports down-pipe and mid sections
vishnu up pipe
intercooler water spray (was good for 1mph last night!)
blitz sbc-id boost control

Did these total to more than 5K? Probably yes, but let's say 6K for the sake of argument. At a mind blowing 3600 ft elevation, he runs 12.379@110.4. (What would he run at sea level? Hard to say, but probably close to 11s for sure!) No stock STi, 22B, Type R, P1, RA, Version-anything will even come close to that time. You wouldn't need to do as much as nmyeti did to have a WRX that would be faster than a stock UK STi either. I doubt the STi in UK spec could do better than a low 13 in the quarter. (Someone feel free to correct me if they have actual specs.) You could go with a more conservative upgrade path than nmyeti and have some change to beef up the suspension.

Now if everyone is planning to run out, buy STis, and mod them like crazy, I understand the hype. As a basis for the ultimate performance car, the STi is obviously better than the WRX. Or if you really, really need to have the 6 spd, then yes, the STi is pretty exciting. (Although as I said previously, by the time the STi gets here, let's say mid 2003, the JDM and UK STi's will have been around for a while. There will be lots of wrecks and prices for used 6 spds. will drop sooner or later.) Or if you must have all the extra trim bits that come with the STi, carbon fiber this aluminium that, then yes, it'd be cheaper to buy an STi than upgrade a WRX.

But baring in mind those exceptions, I still really feel the WRX is the much bigger deal. I mean it's cool to think of an STi finally being available in the US after all these years, but if I were in the market (which I'm not :mad: ) for a car, I'd pick up a gently used WRX, head straight for TurboXS, end up with a monstrously fast car, and have plenty of change from 30K. (Stage 1 from TurboXS, 265 HP for a mere 1K or there abouts; throw in a new turbo for less than another 1K and a re-map and there you go.) Then I'd think about upgrading the suspension.

That's the other thing. How do we know we're even getting the real STi engine. The JDM WRX engine with AVCS makes (IIRC) about 250ish hp. Maybe, to keep the price down, SOA will tune that engine a bit and give it to us. Will we get brembo brakes? Maybe, but my money is on standard Subaru 4 pots/2 pots. Will we get real STi seats? I doubt it for marketing reasons. (i.e. Subaru will assume, correctly IMHO, that the average buyer who plunks down 35K for a car will want side impact airbags.) It's hard to discuss this without knowing what the specs actually are. Jon commented that our WRX more closely resembled the UK WRX than the JDM WRX. That is true, as far as it goes. Our WRX had a lot less than the UK WRX! No STi-style seats, no 17 inch wheels, no four pots. We had more HP on paper, but Subaru UK is notorious for understating engine power, so who can say. If history is anything to go by, we'll see an STi (or should I say "SPT") which is based on the UK version, but with less content.

To those who want to buy one, go for it. I will definitely ask for a ride. I guess I'm just trying to say to everybody that we don't need to wait, wonder and watch the skies anymore. The real performance bargain Subaru that we've all wanted for so long...is already here. (IMHO anyway!:D )

Whew!

But wouldn't the 1998 Impreza 2.5RS be a far better value. It's lighter than either the WRX or WRX STi. It can be purchased now for under $10K. And with the $20K+ you saved by not buying a new WRX STi, you can turbocharge the RS (see, for example, http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/dohc/index.html ) to spank any stock WRX or stock WRX STi in a straight line and still have money left over for aero/suspension/wheel/tire upgrades.

But wait. What if you started, instead, with a Brat... :)

Why do you think I bought a GC8 Jon? My humble pie ugly-ass aquamarine Impreza coupe weighs in at 2400 lbs stock. :D But if I were in the market for a GD, I would definitely go for the WRX, not the STi.

A Brat, eh? Now there's an interesting thought...(imagines self pulling up to a Mustang (or an STi) in a 300 hp Brat)

Hehe. Sounds like you've already read this article about the 2245 pound Oz Brat (called the Brumby down there) with 300hp:
http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_0728/P_1/article.html

It's not mearly a 1 gear difference in the two trannies though. The gearing on the 6spd is completely beefed up. Thicker gear's mean more strength and durability. The number that's been thrown around is 50% stronger. That alone makes a big difference... especially when you're modding the crap out of it!

I happened to read a post by another I-clubber the other day (I think it was Adam Bloom) that said that the V.5-V.6 Type R and RA trannies have strengthened casings in addition to strengthened gears. If you can live with the ultra short gear ratios, (i.e. 19 MPH per 1000 RPM in 5th) might be pretty nice and pretty tough.

Jon, I'd not read that article but it pretty much embodies my approach. "Hmm, what's it that I keep kicking?" he wonders to himself. "Oh, I see, the ignition lock is dangling on the floor... :lol:

Originally posted by hondaslayer
A unichip and a exhaust = 280 hp? That's a 73 hp improvement over stock. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and "HondaSlayer," being a Honda builder myself, I must ask what you've done to your RS to have that name? I'm really interested.

-C

I just hope it comes with 16" wheels and re92s.

I believe, Maximum, you are also in essence looking at the differences between a STi and a WRX in a slightly different light.

In all of your posts thus far, you have stressed straight line power. The Imprezas were *NEVER* designed for this FIRST as a design goal. These are rally cars through and through, and the core goals there are traction first, power secondary.

Sure, you can drop in a chip and an exhaust and intake into a wrx, and beat a us spec STi if and when it comes out in a straight line. However, when you're turning and sliding - i'm willing to bet money that the STi will toast you any day of the week for 2 reasons.

- Handling - it is a tighter and more efficent package, not to mention also it's ability to stop quicker, turn faster and so on.

- with it's upgraded turbo, injectors and maps, I am willing to bet money that you'll find a little less lag, and little more top end (Based off my own experiences driving on/off road with previous versions of STi's versus WRX's) than the set up you have with a current wrx.

Finally, to top it all off, it's like a getting a special class of car. The analogy I can come up with here is like AMG to mercedes, M series to a BMW, S series in an Audi - the STi will be the special family member of the subarus. You don't NEED to find a GOOD subaru shop who would be willing to do all the work for you - you'd simply be able to just BUY one. Let's be honest - outside of Cali, NY, PA, VT, Fl, TX, CO - how many GOOD shops can you even think of that works with subaru, and does it well???


If I wanted a straight line power fiend. I'd take the money that I could have spent on my WRX wagon (with mods) and just gotten a used Viper and destroy most things in a straight line. Heck, if I wasn't stuck at work soo much - i'd just pick up a R6 and kill everything in sight.

But I can't. I need a practical car that can do it all in all weather scenieros. So I have my WRX Wagon, and my toys, to make my life easier and fun at the same time.

Bottom line - people want exclusivity and painless power with warrenty. that's why there's the excitement for the STi.

-victa

I know I'm going to get flamed.. but this is just how i see it....

What Hype :p

and another thing I think that is being overlooked is what the STi will be used for.

it won't draw the same crowd as the WRX has. It'll cost more, and therefore draw a much different consumer base.

People looking for the STi won't be all about straight line speed. Most of us RS owners don't care about straight line speed, either (obviosuly :) ).

I'd not think twice about buying the STi, because with the types of upgrades it has...it'll kick some major ass at the AutoX and track day scene.

The STi sucks, there's no reason to get 'hyped up' about it.

I'm joking.:p

I did the boy racer stuff when I was younger. The interesting thing about modding cars is: they never quite come out the way you think they will. You change one thing and find it throws other things a little out of balance. I spent a few years and quite a few dollars modding a Honda Prelude VTEC. I was always wondering what I should do next to get closer to some fantasy I had for the way the car should go or feel, but it never turned out exactly as I wanted. It was expensive, and it was frustrating as often as it was fun.

Anyone who has driven an M3, would rather buy one than trying to soup up a 3 series coupe. Anyone who has driven an Integra Type R would rather have one than trying get a GS-R to be that good. I bought a WRX because it's amazingly good right from the factory. My WRX is not faster than the Prelude it replaced, but my hot rod Honda was too harsh and high strung to be a comfortable daily driver. The WRX, on the other hand, does all things well. Every day I think about ways to make it better, but experience has taught me that that engine mod that makes it a a little faster, or that suspension mod that makes it corner better, will come at a price - increased harshness, less comfort, less durability, etc. I will eventually make a few changes, but they will be very carfully considered, and not too radical.

Sure, you can do amazing things with a WRX and say $7000 for mods. But, can you test drive the finished product and know exactly what you'll be getting for your $$ before you start? Will it have a warranty, and will you likely get about 100k relatively trouble free miles out of it? Will the entire package be sorted by a team of really good engineers? Will the suspension and braking be a perfect match for the level of power in as many driving conditions as possible?

Mark Avery,


i totaly agree!! that is why the sti will be alot better for people who want performance.

also,JGard18, mentioned how people w/the sti wont be looking for staight line performance, and i agree, cause' it is more of a rally car, but it will still have a better straight line performance right??? and also, will the better handeling also apply to street handeling??? :confused:

i realy want the sti,

We don't know yet what specs the U.S. STi will have. A bunch of very smart engineers will get as close to Subaru's performance goals as the CARB emissions regs will allow, within a budget the marketing geeks dictate. They'll tune the suspension for U.S. road conditions and the perceived desires of the buyers they want to attract.

You can bet it will be faster than a WRX, and will handle sharper without being too harsh, but it will probably not be as hot as the JDM STi.

Yes, I will want one, but with my sorry excuse for a bank account, I cannot justify buying one until I have put many, many, many miles on my WRX.

-Mark