hello, i am thinking about gettin a new 00-01 2.5rs. i was wondering what kind of modifications (general) i can do to the car that will not void the warranty? like intake, exhaust, kit, lights, chip, etc... cause people have always told me that u cannot touch your engine for the years until your warranty is over or else it will void. maybe except an intake.
im not soo learned in this area. much help is welcomed

oh, i heard about having the dealership intall parts for u so that the warranty wont be voided as well. whats the deal with that? im sure that it will be more expensive. but yeah.

thanks.

I just sent SOA an email asking them....I'll let you know.

Dear Mr. Culliton:

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site again. I hope that you have been enjoying your WRX!!

First and foremost, get that nasty word VOID out of your vocabulary. The ONLY way your warranty from Subaru will be VOIDED is if you take it out of the country.

Now, for the facts. We do not recommend the installation of any aftermarket parts in any of our vehicles. Doing so, will NOT affect your warranty. But, any problems caused would not be covered by your warranty from Subaru.

For example, an air freshener is an aftermarket product. Therefore, we would not recommend that you install one in your WRX. But, it is really not going to cause any problems, so there would be no harm or problems caused.

Finally, this is your WRX. Therefore, you can do as you deem appropriate. But, if the installation of an aftermarket part causes a problem, you would be responsible for paying for the repairs.

If you need further assistance, please feel free to contact us again. Have a great weekend!!

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.

Very Cool Email...

That is a very cool email.

In general, he is mostly correct, I have contacted one of the service reps at my dealer and he has stated pretty much the same thing, that unless that part IS (or for some "could be") the culprit that caused the failure or problem, then your covered. Although if you go in with an aftermarket S/C hooked, they can't make you pay to fix the steering column.

The only part that is not right (at least in some dealers eyes) is that I have read that some dealers are so picky, that they wouldn't even work on a car with a bunch of aftermarket stuff. It may be good to see how your dealer feels about mods, the majority are OK with it.

Although it's Definitely nice to hear it from the horses mouth.

the dealer is never that nice when it comes to my mods... system and air filter

i've never understood why subaru is so picky about their warranty except one thing. The qulaity of their parts is not the best. Having worked in the busiest Honda dealer in the midwest for over a year now you can bet i have seen my fair share of modified Honda's. Now if their modification has caused the problem then the customer is responsible for paying for the repairs, but how can you say a aftermarket rim cause your first gear to strip?? i know this hasn't happened but it's just an example. I know of quite a few people that have had transmission problems DOCUMENTED BY THE DEALERS before they did any modifications to the car and have been denied warranty coverage. Now tell me how in GODS name this is a correct business dealing?? I find it VERY odd that Subaru Offers a FREE year memeship to the SCCA and encourages you to race flying their name($200 bonus for winning) yet if you break your car autocrossing it is your fault?? Explain to me how this works out?? I see a possible lawsuit following that piece alone. If subaru would get with it and design a halfway decent trans then they wouldn't have the problems they do. DSM AWD's never experience NEAR this many problems. Sorry i know this is long but i am afraid that i am not going to be able to get my trans fixed if or should i say WHEN in the future. Till then we will see...good luck all.

jeremy

thanks for the help guys :)

reallie cleared up some misconceptions i had.

not sure what this is worth, but i got it from JET's web site

Will JET Performance tuning void my warranty?
No. Federal law prohibits a dealer from voiding your warranty just because you are using aftermarket speed equipment, with only two exceptions: the warranty can be voided if the aftermarket part causes damage or adversely affects the emissions or the emissions system. In recent documents produced by the SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association), a trade association-representing specialty automotive parts manufacturers, and the following quotes have been extracted:

"The vehicle manufacturer is not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket equipment is installed on the vehicle. This protection for consumers is the result of a parts self-certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).

"Under the program, if a parts maker completes the EPA process of self-certifying its parts, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty even if the certified part has failed and is directly responsible for the warranty claim. In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the part manufacturer, but the new vehicle warrant is not void under the law.

"If the failure to honor a claim involves the new-vehicle warranty, and it appears that the manufacturer is improperly denying a claim, the incident should be reported to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC is responsible for monitoring compliance with the warranty law; the agency's telephone number is 202/326-3128."

cnsmtan

Unless you tell your dealer that you got your CPU JET tuned, they will probably never know. There are no stickers put on your cpu and no other visual changes. I had this done to my eclipse cpu and the dealer could never tell.


BUT, are you really sure you want to get your computer JET tuned. I had absolutely no improvement in performance by getting my eclipse JET tuned. Personally I think its a load of crap and a waste of 400 bucks. I had exhaust, intake and a few other little mods and they "specifically tuned" the computer for this. The first time I got the CPU back, it actually ran slower than before. I had to send the unit back to them, and after about 3 weeks of not having the use of my car, it had not gained any performance and I was out 400 bucks. Their customer service was horrible and I would not be surprised if they were scamming people who sent computers in. Dont waste your money, spend it on a better intake and exhaust.

Rick

i am not getting a jet chip, i just posted this for the statement about performance mods. i am getting a unichip from turbo xs very soon. this quote from jet seems to cover all mods, not just their chips.

cnstman

Just use your head and be sensible with what you do. I personally think the unichip is a smarter idea than a boost controller. At least they figured out what runs safe and what doesn't. Got to keep in mind, it's only a passenger car, it's not a race car. While Subarus are generally very reliable, your running the car harder than it was designed. Make sure you have the money in hand to fix what may potentially break if you do get denied warranty on a costly repair.

-jb

I have a few mods on my car and the dealer seem to be cool with it, however they will probably change their tune when something breaks.
:D

So the modification thing is pretty clear, but what about the "competative event" clause, certainly track racing or stage rally could lead to uncovered component failures, but what about auto-x-ing an un-modified car ? does road rally qualify as a competative event that could lead to warranty problems?
or a poker run?

For example, an air freshener is an aftermarket product. Therefore, we would not recommend that you install one in your WRX. But, it is really not going to cause any problems, so there would be no harm or problems caused.

I put an aftermarket air freshener in my WRX. It fell into my vent, caught on fire and shorted out my car's computer!!! :lol:

Straight from Subaru of America:

Dear Mr. Culliton:

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site again. I hope that you have been enjoying your WRX!!

First and foremost, get that nasty word VOID out of your vocabulary. The ONLY way your warranty from Subaru will be VOIDED is if you take it out of the country.

Now, for the facts. We do not recommend the installation of any aftermarket parts in any of our vehicles. Doing so, will NOT affect your warranty. But, any problems caused would not be covered by your warranty from Subaru.

For example, an air freshener is an aftermarket product. Therefore, we would not recommend that you install one in your WRX. But, it is really not going to cause any problems, so there would be no harm or problems caused.

Finally, this is your WRX. Therefore, you can do as you deem appropriate. But, if the installation of an aftermarket part causes a problem, you would be responsible for paying for the repairs.

If you need further assistance, please feel free to contact us again. Have a great weekend!!

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.

wrx182, actually they way I'm reading this letter from SOA is that if the car is left untouched with a/f mkt parts, the warranty won't be voided. If you start installing a/f mkt parts, everything that has been messed with will be void from the warranty coverage.

Anyway, this post might get moved to warranty forum.

There's nothing new here. Your warranty won't be automatically voided upon the installation of aftermarket parts. It may be voided if the aftermarket parts somehow resulted in the failure. If you never make a warranty claim then your warranty will never be voided because you'll never make a claim on your warranty for it to be voided by the aftermarket parts.

IT will not be VOIDED... the repair might not be covered but the warenty will NOT be voided...


And another way to void your warenty besides taking it out of the country is by racing it or taking it off road. accourding to the owners manual..


-Zach

There's nothing new here. Your warranty won't be automatically voided upon the installation of aftermarket parts. It may be voided if the aftermarket parts somehow resulted in the failure. If you never make a warranty claim then your warranty will never be voided because you'll never make a claim on your warranty for it to be voided by the aftermarket parts.yeah, unless they determine the reason of a problem on your car was caused by the part, then it should be under warranty

yup read up on the maggnsun-moss act .. very difficult to "void" a warrenty

so yeah ... i just got my 2002 wrx a month ago and i have $2000 extra that i stashed away for this car ... i already bought a turbo timer but i need to know what i can n cant do to my car so the warranty wont be voided ...
i need to make more mods to my car especially with this much money its so tempting but for now my main cocern is the warranty so help me out ... thanks

rus

hey,
actually,if you're in California (or maybe even just the US) then I have a website you can go to where you can find otu all the things that legally will void your warranty....i'll try to find it and get it to ya..
Basically though, unless they can prove that it has damaged another part of your car...they cannot void your warranty because as a consumer you have the right to add aftermarket products to your car

hey,
actually,if you're in California (or maybe even just the US) then I have a website you can go to where you can find otu all the things that legally will void your warranty....i'll try to find it and get it to ya..
Basically though, unless they can prove that it has damaged another part of your car...they cannot void your warranty because as a consumer you have the right to add aftermarket products to your car
Sarah

For example, an air freshener is an aftermarket product. Therefore, we would not recommend that you install one in your WRX. But, it is really not going to cause any problems, so there would be no harm or problems caused.

Is this for real? Air freshener is hardly the best example of an aftermarket mod! I am sure it would be a different story if you put in a new ECU, bigger turbo and a performance exhaust...:rolleyes:

Taking it out of the country?? So i can't take my subie to the family getaway in Prince Edward Island?? Maybe im looking at that wrong. Atleast i hope i am.

Technically speaking, your warranty can only be voided if it's been proven beyond a doubt that an aftermarket component has caused a failure of an otherwise good factory part.

In reality, they can void your warranty if they feel like it and force you to put up the money to dispute it in court.

The important thing to remember is that Subaru has to prove that the installation of the aftermarket part in question caused the problem. I think if you're persistent enough to challenge them and make them prove that the aftermarket part caused the problem they might find it not worth the trouble in alot of cases.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111461

You warranty will never be void, but SOA can deny you replacement or service if they can prove that ANY part you put on your Subaru was the cause of the problem.

Do a search if you want more info, but I think the letter explains it pretty well.

-anders

wait If I drive into canada then I don't have a warrenty any more? what if I was to race off road in canada?

hey thanks u guys ... that was alot of help ... now i feel more confident to putting more mods ... next up is a blow off valve

rus

hmm, that letter sounds like it was written by someone who actually gives a crap!:)

That person was well meaning but they're missing the point. Here's the difference between denying a warranty claim and "voiding" the warranty.

I install a chip and it raises my horsepower enough that the tranny breaks. I take the car into the dealer, and they say. "You've got an aftermarket chip and the added power is what's responsible for breaking the tranny. We will NOT cover that." That's denying a claim. In theory, that's as much as they can do.

Here's voiding..
"Oh, you've got a chip. We not only won't cover the repair/replacement of your tranny, but if you come in with a failed water pump, broken shift lever, dead alternator, failed A/C compressor or any other part of the engine fails, we won't cover that either. " It's a little more obvious when you're talking about a unichip that adds 30hp. It's totally ridiculous when it's a NA engine and the chip adds maybe 5hp and they're claiming it caused a failed pushrod bearing. People have had their powertrain warranties "voided" for stupid stuff like aftermarket exhaust, and even suspension parts. The dealer basically says. "We won't honor the warranty any more." They can't do that legally, but they know that you're unlikely to spend the time and money to fight it in court. Then even if you do, they may do something sleezy like say.. "We don't want to fight you in court, but but we could. How about we'll repair this failed part, just this one time, but all future repairs are on you. Sign this piece of paper to that effect." In that case, they're acting like they're doing you a favor, and you're the one signing away the rights to your own warranty. Effectively voiding it. Holding your car hostage in the process is great leverage for them.

The long and short of it is, if you have the time, energy and money to fight them in court, you can get the absolute most out of your warranty. They will have to prove that your aftermarket part caused the failure of whatever broke. Practically speaking, if the dealer wants to deny coverage because you've got a non SOA short shift kit.. They'll just do it.
And since there's most likely a regional SOA rep, if he denies your claim, just going down the road to the next dealer won't help at all.

What you need to find is a *mod friendly* dealer. This applies to ALL makes of cars. Find one who suggests and installs stuff themselves.

ian

Find a local subaru dealer that isn't the one you bought the car from (just in case), ask to talk to someone in service. Discuss your plans with them and see what they think about it. Can't hurt, they won't know you or your car. Has anyone tried this yet?

-jb

im still really curious about the visiting canada thing. Dose that void my warenty??

SoA is talking about MOVING out of the country and taking your Subie with you, not VISITING another country.

Sweet... Thanks!!!!

Yeay! I found it!
here are you official rights as a consumer to add aftermarket parts to your part...The Magnusson-Moss Act

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?ID=22238&criteria=magnusson+moss

now there are no more questions...
Sarah

hey wrx182 ... so uhhh ... hook me up with that guy with the email cuz i need on eof those proofs just in case ... thanks

rus

Originally posted by Daemon42


Here's voiding..
"Oh, you've got a chip. We not only won't cover the repair/replacement of your tranny, but if you come in with a failed water pump, broken shift lever, dead alternator, failed A/C compressor or any other part of the engine fails, we won't cover that either. " It's a little more obvious when you're talking about a unichip that adds 30hp. It's totally ridiculous when it's a NA engine and the chip adds maybe 5hp and they're claiming it caused a failed pushrod bearing. People have had their powertrain warranties "voided" for stupid stuff like aftermarket exhaust, and even suspension parts. The dealer basically says. "We won't honor the warranty any more." They can't do that legally, but they know that you're unlikely to spend the time and money to fight it in court.

What you need to find is a *mod friendly* dealer. This applies to ALL makes of cars. Find one who suggests and installs stuff themselves.

ian

Could someone explain to me how it is in the interest of the dealer to void (or even deny) warranty work? Don't they get reimbursed by SOA, maybe not at their street rates, but isn't it work they make profit on?

What am I missing here?

Dan

Sophocles:

Typically, from what I've heard, all the parts a dealer uses to fix your car under warranty, are paid for by SOA - anotherwords, no money for the Dealer..... They are usually paid for installation labor (a flat fee per job done), at a lower rate than their normal non-warranty hourly rate...

So bottom line, if a Dealer claims your warranty is voided.... and you believe it, they sell you parts, and all their labor is billed directly from them... making much more money for the dealership....

That's my $.02

Just got my WRX and am looking at doing some modifications once I put a few thousand miles on her. With all the mods out there (Cobb, TurboXS, etc.) does anyone know which (if any) will void the factory warranty?

Example? Unichip, boost controller, exhaust, intake, etc

Thanks ahead of time for any help on this.

Kolin

Nothing will VOID the warranty...But if problems are caused as a result or a mod that you did, the repair cost will not be covered under warranty....Just find yourself a mod-friendly dealership...

I'm a little confused here....:confused: They (Subaru) advertise the car as a rally car and give you a scca membership but yet you can't take the car off roading? That sucks! I guess I need to get mine on a lift and powerwash it if I have to take it in then, uh?

In ref to all this VOIDing of Warranty etc., I was informed by my Salesman that guy here in Oz put an aftermarket exhaust on his WRX.

The WRX finally ended up with a melted piston, it was determined that the exhaust caused the engine to run hotter than it was designed to run at and subsequently he had to pay for the rebuild.

This was the answer I was given when I asked about putting a
K & N air filter on my car (Legacy GT aka Liberty).

The Salesman advised me that if I was going to modify anything, then make sure the Manufacturer of the part had a Warranty to cover any damage as in a K & N air filter etc., that way i would be covered both ways.

It's food for thought either way you look at it!

I was just following all the posts re voiding your warrenty... funny I cant even get my car fixed with problems that are "stock" I'd really like to see how the average service writer treats a customer with an "enhanced" WRX. Every thing I have bugged them about either doesnt exist or is "normal" ... all the rattles and buzzes were not "normal" on my 10 year old much modified Audi... anyway at least its fast! (the WRX I mean... even a modified Audi is slow...)

First off you guys whine a lot! Now some of you are complaining about not being able to drive in AutoX and race the car ect. because it will void the warranty. You have to look at it from the manufacturers viewpoint. If they covered absolutly everything then I could drive around without insurance on my car and drive it into a brick wall and completly total the car and have Subaru pay to replace it under warranty. Thats just BS if you think that.

Warranty covers any defect in workmanship. A warranty does NOT cover you driving offroad and hitting your undercarage on a large sharp rock and putting a hole in your transmission. That is NOT a manufacturer defect, thats your problem. I dont think they are going to void your warranty because you drove in autox. What they are trying to say is that if you do drive in autox and you damage something in the process of doing this they are not going to cover it. Or if YOU race your car and you are constantly passing redline and you blow up your engine thats your problem that once again is not a manufacturing defect.

Also for anyone having trouble getting SOA to honor their warranty you can contact the Consumer Protection Agency and in california we have the Department of Automotive Consumer Affairs Warranty Mediation service, both which are FREE of charge and will help you resolve the problem with SOA.

I am the head tech at a Subaru dealer, I am cool with mods, as long as I can easily fix what was damaged or broken its really no problem. FOR EXAMPLE you put in bigger wheels and your tire rubbed a hole through the fender well plastic, fine, easy to fix, no big deal.

FOR EXAMPLE if you have some strange electrical problem beacause your car had a huge system installed that sets off car alarms and all of a sudden your radio and power windows dont work, good luck fix it your self or take it back to who installed the radio. I have more work to do then fix you butchered stereo installation under warrenty.

Thats just my opinion of what I would do if a problem occured.



G

Thats good to know now if all Subie Techs thought that way. I agree with you and I think thats really how it should be. I have no remorse for people who are boosting their car to 20 PSI and putting huge mods on them and are then having problems. That is definatly their deal.

And if someone does something as simple as put in a CAI and then has problems with the engine it should be still covered under warranty. But apparently not every service manager thinks this way, especially out here in CA. I havnt had the pleasure of dealing with any of them yet but they sound like they all have twigs up their asses.

I have a 01’ RS. I’ve had for a year now and have 14,000 miles on it. The modifications that I made are: Cobb CAI, Cobb short shifter, under drive pulley (from Cobb), and Indigo Gauges. I installed the CAI when I had about 3,500 miles on it. Everything was going good and I was a happy camper. The check engine light came on while driving back to San Antonio from Mississippi. It came on when I was driving through Baton Rouge. It was when I was driving up that steep bridge. I called the dealership and asked them what might be wrong. He said that a number of minor things could cause the light to come on. Example: lose gas cap, taillight out and so on. He said that I should be fine for the rest of the trip as long as the light doesn’t start to flash. As soon as I got back to SA I went to the dealership. After an hour and a half wait they said that they found the problem and had to order a new part. He said they ordered a new intake bla bla… (I was in a hurry so I wasn’t effectively listening) They told me that the light is gone for now, but might reappear later. I haven’t been able to get a hold of them to find out the exact name of the part and price of it. When I do I’ll post it on here. Anywayz…..the point of this story is: If it’s something like my intake bla bla like the guy said they I’m not going to be covered, right? It’s going to be hard to prove my aftermarket intake had nothing to do with it. I’ll keep you posted on what happens in the next episode of “All my Subaru’s”.

mike...

Jorge's sire www.projectwrx.com had alot of good onfo regarding the warranty. Check it out, the man's a genius :D

i asked my dealer about this and they said the only problems they would have is if i did anything internal i.e. cams, pistons anything of that nature :devil:

wrex666


who is your dealer?

patrick subau in worcester MA:devil:

Here is the easiest way to avoid these conflicts SAVE YOUR STOCK PARTS - If you run into a problem, simply swap the stock parts back onto the car and take to the dealership, no-one is the wiser!!! (there are exceptions, I know)

Hey everyone,
This is my first post on this forum. I stumbled across this on google. There is another forum www.wrxforums.com I had been posting on forever and nobody else was on it!
Anyways, I am stoked to get a new Scoob this summer. My dad has a big hang-up with the warranty stuff and I have BIG plans for mods. I'm printing this entire thread out so I can make him read it.:lol:
Thanks to WRX 182 for the post!
Randy D.

I am really glad I read this entire thread. Lots of good info in here....

I'll remember this when it comes time to upgrade the WRX...

So with the issue of aftermarket wheels supposedly causing gears to strip out; would this constitute a call to FTC? Surely they can't prove that running an aftermarket wheel would strip gears even if the overall diameter were larger.

Originally posted by bgd scooby
Here is the easiest way to avoid these conflicts SAVE YOUR STOCK PARTS - If you run into a problem, simply swap the stock parts back onto the car and take to the dealership, no-one is the wiser!!! (there are exceptions, I know)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$

exactly!:D

question??? I understand the deny, void difference expect in one case. Lets say, and i will be installing an uppipe with no cat in place of the factory catted upipe to boost power and reduce lag. Now this is a modification which obviously reduces its emmisions capibilities therefore altering the performance and VIODING the emmisions warranty, and they can viod your drivetrain warranty because of it. Right or Wrong????

Right, because it's before the turbo, they can, but as the law says, they must prove it caused (or could have caused) the problem.

VOID = Warrent is gone. No more. No more claims considered.

Denied Claim = We're not fixing this part. It's your fault.

Remember, the dealer has to prove your aftermarket part caused the problem... you don't have to prove that it didn't.

Is this the case in Canada as well? My salesguy said anything to do with the mechanical stuff would void the warranty as well.

Originally posted by Frederf
VOID = Warrent is gone. No more. No more claims considered.

Denied Claim = We're not fixing this part. It's your fault.

Remember, the dealer has to prove your aftermarket part caused the problem... you don't have to prove that it didn't.


If you're denied warranty work, though, it's noted on the system under your VIN. If you go back in for something and they see "warranty denied because of aftermarket turbo", there is a really good chance not going to replace something like a head gasket, even with the stock turbo back in. It would not be hard to prove that having an aftermarket turbo could do some damage to a head gasket.

Where can I get a Subaru OEM air freshener? I don't want to void the warranty.

And lets not forget that Subaru includes a SCCA membership free of charge for one year with the purchase of a WRX!
You should read Sports Compact Car. Page 22 title is Speaking Lawyer. The part that gets me is that "all Subaru vehicles and parts accessories warranties are voided if the vehicle is used in a competitive event." *scratches head* Isn't SCCA racing competitive? There's more than one person out there racing against each other right? Maybe not at the same time, but it's still a competitive event.


mike...:confused:

I just ran into this thread after looking at the 2001 and 2002 warantee manuals (I have an Impreza and Outback wagon). 2001 has the phrase stating that that cars are ineligible for warantee coverage ";or if the car is ever used in any race or other competitive event." 2002: it's gone.

I was trying to see where it says that brake pads will be replaced if worn out during the warantee period. My sales guy told me that....I don't believe it and I can't find it anywhere.

jack

I have been thinking about this dilema a lot lately, and (of course) it seems like I desire all mods for my WRX in inverse order of how much my warranty will be hurt :-(. The thing I would like to do the most is put in a chip, but I have a couple of questions about this. First of all, I figure that messing with my boost will keep me from getting warranty repairs on my turbo, most of my engine, my tranny, AND the AWD system. Is this true, or can they only screw me on my Turbo itself? Also, is there any chips that can be removed easily (this being a relative term), and do they leave any proof of their existence in the computer. Lastly, if I change the boost on my WRX from the stock 13.5 to 17-20 (with a chip and maybe a new turbo), is this likely to cause me problems in six months, or 5 years when I hit 80k? Thanks for the input guys! :)

Originally posted by Alldidasmc
First of all, I figure that messing with my boost will keep me from getting warranty repairs on my turbo, most of my engine, my tranny, AND the AWD system. Is this true, or can they only screw me on my Turbo itself?

In my experience, the dealer is going to do what ever it can to keep from doing hte repairs under warranty. If they think they can link the AWD to the turbo...they will.

Just my $.02

you guys w/ the tranny probs., *ouch*...as someone pointed out earlier, the dealers get paid substancially lower labor rates for warranty coverage... and unfortunately a tranny rebuild is a big chunk of time (for which they're getting paid jack, plus not able to work jobs where they get full labor rate)...so the chances of the dealer trying to find every possible way of making you pay are pretty high. The only thing that can probably save you the expense is if you make enough noise high enough up the food chain. I have seen this work on some pretty ridiculous claims as a tech at a dealership.

Good luck...and keep in mind, if you do fight it in court, you're spending dough you may not get back and burning bridges---so you had better win!

Word.

P.S. ..if you are racing/running autoX either be able to fix it, or have someone who can...(and money for parts of course:D )

That's a very legitamate point, but on the side of the consumer, I think the claim that aftermarket wheels would cause the clutch to start chattering is...well:rolleyes:

Granted the folks that are stripping out first gear aren't doing so under normal city driving. But maybe the real problem is the salesman who leads you to think that if I bring my car in with a problem under warranty, it will get fixed. I'm having the hardest time getting the tech at my dealer to even admit to hearing the noise that my clutch has made since new...much less start to diagnose it. This hopefully isn't a rebuild, or any other problem with the tranny itself. I hope that when they finally get around to admitting that there is a problem, the clutch change will work.

By the way...who pays who for the service. Is the mechanic getting his full paycheck at the end of the day? If it's the dealer that isn't getting the full amount, shouldn't they have considered that when they sold the car? I'm not sure how the system works, but I would hope that the mechanic still got paied his rate.

Ray

Sorry that post may have been a little misleading. I don't have after market wheels, but do have this chattering in my clutch. I'm afraid to get aftermarket wheels because I've been told by someone else they couldn't get their clutch repair done under warranty because they had aftermarket wheels.

Ray

I probably ought to do some proofreading too before I send these.

as far as a clutch claim being denied...unless it was documented from Day 1, good luck...as the clutch is considered a 'wear item' which like brake pads they consider something that you must replace at your expense due to the difference in people's driving styles...

the aftermarket wheels causing a clutch problem is a far stretch, but the wheels are connected to the driveline...so...who knows what they can come up w/ to explain that?:eek:

and the tech makes less dough on warranty work AND misses out on full price work he could be doing in the meantime

hopefully they will take care of your clutch just as a goodwill gesture if nothing else...but like others have posted, documentation from the start of the problem is the key

Word.

Originally posted by Daemon42
That person was well meaning but they're missing the point. Here's the difference between denying a warranty claim and "voiding" the warranty.

I install a chip and it raises my horsepower enough that the tranny breaks. I take the car into the dealer, and they say. "You've got an aftermarket chip and the added power is what's responsible for breaking the tranny. We will NOT cover that." That's denying a claim. In theory, that's as much as they can do.

Here's voiding..
"Oh, you've got a chip. We not only won't cover the repair/replacement of your tranny, but if you come in with a failed water pump, broken shift lever, dead alternator, failed A/C compressor or any other part of the engine fails, we won't cover that either. " It's a little more obvious when you're talking about a unichip that adds 30hp. It's totally ridiculous when it's a NA engine and the chip adds maybe 5hp and they're claiming it caused a failed pushrod bearing. People have had their powertrain warranties "voided" for stupid stuff like aftermarket exhaust, and even suspension parts. The dealer basically says. "We won't honor the warranty any more." They can't do that legally, but they know that you're unlikely to spend the time and money to fight it in court. Then even if you do, they may do something sleezy like say.. "We don't want to fight you in court, but but we could. How about we'll repair this failed part, just this one time, but all future repairs are on you. Sign this piece of paper to that effect." In that case, they're acting like they're doing you a favor, and you're the one signing away the rights to your own warranty. Effectively voiding it. Holding your car hostage in the process is great leverage for them.

The long and short of it is, if you have the time, energy and money to fight them in court, you can get the absolute most out of your warranty. They will have to prove that your aftermarket part caused the failure of whatever broke. Practically speaking, if the dealer wants to deny coverage because you've got a non SOA short shift kit.. They'll just do it.
And since there's most likely a regional SOA rep, if he denies your claim, just going down the road to the next dealer won't help at all.

What you need to find is a *mod friendly* dealer. This applies to ALL makes of cars. Find one who suggests and installs stuff themselves.

ian i just read this and it sounds like what i am going through. i put a turbo XS BOV on my car and now if my radio fails the dealer cannot cover it. what am i to do?

here is a link to my original post.


my post (http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181428&highlight=screwed) can anyone besides a lawyer help me??

-=GuS=-

ok, they said if you take it out of country. how would they know?

i live outside the US now, but will be back in a few years. How would they know if I had it overseas??!!

just bought a new wrx wagon today :-))) Anyhoo, service mgr tried to give me the scare story that if I don't come to them for oil changes and go to the local Jiffy Lube or whoever, and get an oil change w/o using Subaru brand oil filter, and something bad happens to the engine, the warranty won't cover the damage... sheesh... what do y'all think of that?

Apparently, there is a Subaru Technical Service Bulletin about the necessity of using Subaru authorized lubricants, etc. to maintain warranty coverage.

That's unreal that they threaten to "VOID" your warranty for leaving the country, for not using their oils and filters...c'mon! I do my own service most of the time anyhow (on the simpler stuff anyhow).

Anyone know the legality of this all? I guess if you aren't using oil then I could see that, but even if I use fairly cheap dino oil compared to Redline as long as the engine is lubed well..etc.....(I would use the Redline or synth) :)

Also, anyone know all the service intervals? I kind of wanna know before I buy so I know what to expect..

This goes for any car. Before you buy, talk to the dealer's service manager about their maintenance and warranty policies and try to get confirmation from him in writing. If you are not satisified, don't buy from that dealer and, if you do, never take your car there for service as their general service abilities probably aren't adequate anyway. Even if they are "mod friendly", go to their service department and have a look around and talk to some customers. As well, you will usually get at least slightly better service consideration from the dealership you bought from.

I called SOA today and asked what would happen if I put the TS/Outback hitch on my WRX. The lady told me that the warranty would be voided because the hitch is not designated for the WRX. Draw-tite makes a hitch that is designated for the WRX, but it's not a Subaru part. She said if there is damage from towing, it's not covered. I argued that if I put on the hitch to use for a bike rack that it should not void my warranty. Again she said that the SOA hitch is not for the WRX. Nowhere in the sales brochure or owners manual does it say "Do not tow with the WRX". It is listed as being able to tow.........I really don't get it!

The Impreza TS/Outback manual states the towing capacity and how to tow. If the WRX manual doesn't specifically state towing specs then I suppose it is up to Subaru. Mail, Email or Fax them the question and request an answer in writing.

i remember reading that the WRX can tow up to 2000 lbs in one of the manuals. hope this is a help.

-=GuS=-

the service manager at my dealer told me they "love waranty work...it pays more than if the part isn't under waranty." they're pretty cool about aftermarket parts too i've heard. unless the part is proven to have caused the failure, it's under waranty.

Heres an idea. Get to know the people in the service dept. Become friendly with them.It may help you out when things start to break. Example last year I had a 99 dakota rt. I installed a super charger with 11 psi,injectors,fuel pump,ect,ect. It was fast and ran good, until my fuel pump failed on a 112 degree day. I blew both of my head gaskets and some what melted a piston.
I had been talking to a service manager and a mechanic for a couple of months before my mishap. They were pretty cool about it and were able to convince the inspector(auto nation)that my mishap was from parts failure. I ended up paying $20 and got half my motor rebuilt for free.(under warranty)

I bought a 2002 WRX Wagon last November. It was the dealer's demo model with 1,500 miles on it. They had installed 17" P-1 wheels, and a Stromung cat-back system. After about 5k miles the clutch started to slip. At 7k they replaced it. At 15k I told them it was not wanting to go down into 1st at 15-20 mph (something you need to be able to do when driving in San Francisco). They couldn't replicate the problem. At 17k miles I installed a Vishnu Stage Zero kit. Shortly after that I put on some Toyo RA-1 tires (tread wear 40). Then I went to the track. While at the track it started to make really bad noises shifting from 3rd-4th at high rpm. I took it in again, and they couldn't replicate the problem, but thought it was really funny that my front tires were almost bald after a week, and the rears looked new. (I guess wagons push a little without a sway bar). At about 21k The car wouldn't start. I thought the worst. My check engine light had been coming on and off for a few weeks, and I attributed it to the removal of my EGT probe and cat-less uppipe. After I got the run around from Stevens Creek Subaru in San Jose (the city where I work, and where the car wouldn't start) I called and 800 number in my manual and complained. The district advisor I spoke with understood that I had a good relationship with the folks I had bought my car from, and that I only wanted them to work on it. He authorized a goodwill payment to my dealership (Subaru Santa Cruz) to have a tow company go to San Jose and get my car and take it to Santa Cruz. They found that I had a bad crank angle sensor (the reason it would crank, but not turn over) After they installed that, they drove it and the service folks said "hey your clutch seems to be slipping" I said "that's nothing, you should try to upshift from 3rd to 4th at about 6,500 rpm" they pointed out that that would be exceeding the speed limit a wee bit. I think they let one of the new guys do it though, because they started to tear down my tranny. 28 Days later my car was given back to me with a new flywheel, synchros for 1st, 3rd and 4th gears, another clutch (that's 3 now- they asked if I was ready for the Cobb or ACT, and I said "Hell no, I've still got 11k more miles left on the warranty, how long do you honestly think it will take me to roast this one? I'll pay for the aftermarket parts, and you'll pay for the labor when I have about 3 miles left to go!" I'll make sure it's ready for replacement by then).
Did I mention that my dealer gives me a loaner car whenever I bring my car to them, for any reason, including oil changes? Did I mention that I had a Legacy VDC with a Macintosh stereo, leather and dual sunroofs while my baby was there for 28 days? Did I mention that in those 28 days I put 2,700 miles on their loaner and they still felt really bad that they had my car for so long? Or that they called me a few days later to make sure I was happy with the work, and tell me about some upcoming track events? I have had soooo many things go wrong with this car- 3 attempts at fixing the rattle near the passenger rear roof- they said there was a service billetin about a missed weld point- 2 new armrest extensions- 2 clutch replacements, all the tranny work, busted floor mat brackets- scratched windows from sand in the rails- basically lots of stuff. The only money I had paid so far was for the regularly scheduled maintenance. They have actually been trying to convince me to let them install a Stoptech brake kit.
My advice to anyone is develop a good relationship with your dealer, let them know what you want to do to your car, and only purchase quality add-ons, and have them installed correctly. I would also recommend that you buy a car from Subaru Santa Cruz, and take it to them for service. Then you can be fully STOKED just like me.:)

Originally posted by wrex666
patrick subau in worcester MA:devil:
Puh Patrick Subaru?! Geez im so glad i did not buy my car from them!! I havent experienced there service department, but there sales department is a bunch of crooks! I came a hair close from buying from them untill i pulled out of the deal when i caught up to it...still pisses me off to this day!

This probably isn't the place to post this, but I'm frustrated and new to posting on boards.
I have taken my 2007 Eddie Bauer Forester in for two different problems. First, the alarm system goes off in the parked car anytime a large truck or noisy car drives by it. When I took it in for the 3000 mile oil change, I asked the service manager to look at this. The service manager told me that they could not 'reproduce' the incident. They could shut the alarm off, but that could become a warranty issue. This past weekend, we took it for its first long trip 1200 miles round trip in 5 days. On the very first day out, a puddle of water formed in the passenger foot area. This puddle kept getting larger. My husband 'McGyvered' a funnel and a large soft drink bottle to collect the water (just water) on the trip. We were in 70-100 degree weather, so we were using the air conditioner. We are 95% sure this discharge is coming from the air conditioner. This is supported by a check to see if a puddle forms under the car after use. No puddle. When we took it in this time to have the leak checked and to get a 6000 mile oil change, we hit the same wall. The drain is not plugged, they couldn't reproduce the incident, and, so I understood, he talked reaally slloooww.
I bought the car in October 2006, but not from the dealer I have been taking it for service. Due to a move the original dealer is in another town. The car only has 6200 miles on it. Never used the air conditioner, until last week because it hadn't been needed until we went south. The only modification to it was a Sirius radio added to it by Subaru dealer I bought the car from in October.

Thats obviously a plugged up evaporator under the dash. I've seen it before. It might be hard for them to reproduce, but they need to get in there and clean out the system.

As for the alarm system... That sounds normal, but my guess is you don't have an OEM alarm system but actually an aftermarket system installed at your dealer.

Thank you, Kostamojen. That seems to be the general consensus of anyone I talk to, but can I get a service manager or mechanic to believe it? Eight year owner of Subarus, and first time any mehanical or personnel problem.

And the alarm, thanks for that too. I thought it was OEM, but not sure, now. Since I have been reading the manual, I think I will ask them about the ability to change the sensitivity and see what they say. So embarrassing to come out of a movie and find out your car has been entertaining the theatre employees for the past two hours.

First, the alarm system goes off in the parked car anytime a large truck or noisy car drives by it. When I took it in for the 3000 mile oil change, I asked the service manager to look at this. The service manager told me that they could not 'reproduce' the incident. They could shut the alarm off, but that could become a warranty issue.The dealer can adjust the sensitivity of the shock sensor that is part of the Subaru Perimeter Security upgrade. Unfortunately, this adjustment requires the use of a Subaru Select Monitor diagnostic tool, so you can't adjust the sensitivity yourself.

It appears the technicians you're dealing with aren't too bright, so I've included a link to the installation instructions for the Perimeter Security upgrade which explain how to get to the correct menu in the Subaru Select Monitor in order to adjust the shock sensor sensitivity.

http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/downloadFree.jsp?doc_id=139276

The sensitivity can be set to a value from 0 to 10 and it's possible the tech has set the sensitivity to 0, thinking that is the least sensitive value. However, it turns out that a sensitivity setting of 0 is the most sensitive setting.

just bought a new wrx wagon today :-))) Anyhoo, service mgr tried to give me the scare story that if I don't come to them for oil changes and go to the local Jiffy Lube or whoever, and get an oil change w/o using Subaru brand oil filter, and something bad happens to the engine, the warranty won't cover the damage... sheesh... what do y'all think of that?
That is true. If some other place puts the wrong filter, or just screws up the oil change and it damages the car, then yes, the warranty doesn't cover that repair.

However, you can take the car anywhere for service as long as it is done correctly and their parts doesn't cause a failure.

i've never understood why subaru is so picky about their warranty except one thing. The qulaity of their parts is not the best. Having worked in the busiest Honda dealer in the midwest for over a year now you can bet i have seen my fair share of modified Honda's. Now if their modification has caused the problem then the customer is responsible for paying for the repairs, but how can you say a aftermarket rim cause your first gear to strip?? i know this hasn't happened but it's just an example. I know of quite a few people that have had transmission problems DOCUMENTED BY THE DEALERS before they did any modifications to the car and have been denied warranty coverage. Now tell me how in GODS name this is a correct business dealing?? I find it VERY odd that Subaru Offers a FREE year memeship to the SCCA and encourages you to race flying their name($200 bonus for winning) yet if you break your car autocrossing it is your fault?? Explain to me how this works out?? I see a possible lawsuit following that piece alone. If subaru would get with it and design a halfway decent trans then they wouldn't have the problems they do. DSM AWD's never experience NEAR this many problems. Sorry i know this is long but i am afraid that i am not going to be able to get my trans fixed if or should i say WHEN in the future. Till then we will see...good luck all.

jeremy

I didn't read the entire thread, so someone may have already said this, but, it would seem Subaru is just covering themselves from the 0.01% of buyers who would take their car offroad, bounce their differentials and oil pans off of a few rocks, and try to get the dealer to fix it as a "warranty" issue. Same as if you smashed it into a tree or telephone pole, would you expect your warranty to cover it? I'm not saying Subaru is good or bad in terms of warranty repairs, I really couldn't make a claim in either direction since my car never required warranty repairs...I guess the fact that it never did is a testament to how well the car is built - up until recently I drove my Impreza 100 miles per week day for 3 years without any incidents.

What a bump.