EDIT (1/13/09):
DO I NEED A RELAY? This question has been asked over and over again, now we have conclusive testing done ...
Go HERE for testing results: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25167064&postcount=361

Thank you to forum member Mike Costin for providing an excellent test and documented results.

-CvD
----------------------------------------------------------

Reason why I'm posting this is because I couldn't find a complete "how to" on installing Supertones. Sure, there's a few threads on there, but I had to look at 3-4 different ones to get the complete picture.

So, here's the complete installation and everything you'll need to do it. I hope it's helpful.


Supplies Needed:
1. Electrical Tape or Shrink Tube
2. Wire strippers
3. 14G Wire
4. 14G Male Connectors
5. 14G Female Connector
6. 20 AMP In-Line Fuse Terminal
7. 20 AMP Fuse
8. Zip Ties
9. Sime Wire Loom (if you want)
10. Small nuts, bolts & washers
11. 14G In-Line Wire Connectors
12. Vampire Clips

Tools Needed:
1. Screwdrivers
2. Wrenches (for small nuts and bolts)
3. 10mm Wrench
4. Wire Strippers
5. Pliers

What to do:

1. Remove the front grill. And figure out how you're going to mount the horns. I used two existing holes in the radiator support that centered both horns between the side of the grill and the Subaru emblem (see pictures).

2. Disconnect one of the factory horns (or both if you desire). Don't cut the connectors, you will need to use one of them later.

3. Look at the relay that came with the horns. The terminals are numbered, this is what those numbers mean:
87 - (+) Lead for the supertones.
86 - Where the stock horn wire conects.
85 - Relay ground wire.
30 - (+) Power wire, connects to the battery with a fuse.

4. Figure out where you want the relay, because that's going to decide on how you run the wires. Once you have that figured out ...

5. Use your 14G wire to make a harness for the #87 to go to the horns. I ran one 14G wire to one horn, then spliced the second horn with a vampire clip. At all three ends, I used 14G female connectors.

6. Take some 14G wire and crimp a 14G male connector on it. Plug this into one of your disconnected factory horn wires. Then put a female connector on the other end and plug it into terminal #86 on the relay.

7. Find a suitable ground and wire up #85 on the relay. I used a stock ground location next to the batery (see pictures).

8. Now, you need to ground the horns. I ran the ground to the passenger side ground location (see pics). I also made the exact same kind of wiring harness for the ground wire as I did with the (+) lead from the relay.

9. Last is making the connection to the battery. I used a ring terminal and conencted it right to the battery and ran the wire through the protective cover for a clean look. This is where you need to use a 20A fuse terminal.

10. Install your fuse into the fuse terminal and test your horns.

Some things to note:
1. On the horns, the copper connection is (+) to the relay. The silver connecion is (-) to the ground.
2. These mofo's are LOUD.
3. Safedrives kicks ass. Thanks Charles! Buy your supertones there!

Tools and connectors needed:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4510/20061111images0049ai9.jpg

'Wiring Harness' - I made two of these, one for (+) and one for (-) to the horns: Note that the vampire clip is not taped/shring wrapped yet. Make sure you wrap or tape it.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/474/20061111images0031ih5.jpg

Battery connection with fuse:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1952/20061111images0036xs9.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7040/20061111images0041al7.jpg

Relay ground location:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2746/20061111images0042yt7.jpg

Relay all wired up:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8536/20061111images0043zs5.jpg

Ground for horns:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1779/20061111images0044fo3.jpg

The final product:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/520/20061111images0045tf1.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4930/20061111images0047vu8.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9647/20061111images0048ir0.jpg

Enjoy! Let me know if I misstated anything, I just did the install, so it should all be accurate.

~CvD

nice, but this should be in the "electrical and lighting" forum ;)

Thanks for the write-up and pics. I am wiring up my horn this weekend, and your post saved me from searching on how to do this. And the pics help with my lack of reading comprehension.

nice, but this should be in the "electrical and lighting" forum ;)

Indeed ... posted in the wrong forum!

Bookmarked! I was thinking of ordering them soon and I might do it sooner now :)

Edit - How long did it take you to do this?

Wow! Nice write up!

Best regards,

Charles Buren
safedrives.com
(http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/www.safedrives.com)877-739-1713 Toll Free
cburen at safedrives.com

Those clip 3-way junctions are junk.

use a butt-end connector to join the 3 power wires.

Very nice write up! I can't wait to hear them!

Bookmarked! I was thinking of ordering them soon and I might do it sooner now :)

Edit - How long did it take you to do this?

About 2 hours, including a trip to radio shack and taking pics of the install.

I agree that those three way junctions aren't the best option, but in this case they're perfectly acceptable in my mind.

sound clip of the actual horn i havent been able to find 1 i know they are MUCH louder but i dont want the tone of a mack truck or the high pitch honk of a ferrari.

Damn, what a clean job.

I think I'll redo my crap job. haha.

Works just like it should, I was just sloppy. :(

edit... Yeah, I'm definitely going to redo mine. I think I'll paint 'em flat black, too. :D

Damn, what a clean job.

I think I'll redo my crap job. haha.

Works just like it should, I was just sloppy. :(

Thanks man, I wanted the install to look as close to stock as possible. I'm actually kinda bent that I couldn't find a black fuse terminal :)

^--- hahahah ... quoted you too soon. I actually really like how they look. I can't lie, it's probalby the main reason why I go them (I'm rice).

Haha, I got them because the single stock horn on the MY97 sucks. :D

Hey Mulder, should this be a sticky?

sweet dood, I was worried that i was gonna have to fab some brackets and drill holes and such.. COol I have my supertones sitting here on my desk staring at me. Guess the 06 is gettin the supertone treatment tomorrow.

Chris

Ya the 06 fit is great. Just need a few nuts, bolts, and the stuff listed.

THey have good radiator clearance too.

thanks! excellent write up... think this will be my next mod

Nice job. I wouldnt mind a set, but my hella driving light wiring is a sloppy job as it is and im thinking I would have to redo that first and then do this.. perhaps a good summer project after I install my winter batch of parts.

From someone who has no electrical/wiring experience at all, this write up is great. I got all my parts from Radio Shack and took about an hour to install everything. The horns have a strange sound but they are loud. I suggest if you try them after the install either open the garage door or move the car out otherwise its too loud:eek: .

One bad thing is that my grill didn't fit correctly and I broke a tab off of it and had to use a zip tie to tighten it. I guess I'll search for a new grill now.

I'll add this:

An excellent way to not have to use a vampire tap to power the horns is to use a relay with dual #87 pins. :) That way you can run a separate wire for each horn which can make for a safer/cleaner wiring job.

[actually, i thought the Hella Supertone kit came with a relay that had dual #87 pins... i'm think mine did... but they're cheap, about $6 i think.]

Just ordered a set, taking your word on Safedrives.
Now I have to decide on what color to paint them. I have a Sedona Red car so the regular red doesn't go well, so I'm thinking either the Sedona Red which I have a can of, or the bumper gold which I have to figure out and order. I'm leaning toward the gold. Any opinions? Thanks
http://kamil212.com/photos/subaru/obs/sub1.jpg

Also, now I'm afraid to put them on. I checked the decibel chart and these are rated at 118dB. The chart puts a train horn at 120dB :lol:

Don't worry, they're not that loud... At least while you're inside the car... :devil:

I say paint 'em black unless you really want to "show them off". :)

Thanks, the reason I was afraid is cuz I live in Chicago :devil:
The reason that I finally decided to get these is that the other day there was a moron in front of me that had a green right turn light and just stood there till it turned red 10 seconds later. I was about to get out of the car and....

The reason I wanted to paint them is that I have the replica genome grill which is pretty empty so I wanted to put something in there but not too flashy

I wish I had this writeup when I installed mine... infact.. I have not idea how mine are working at all because of the crap job I did :lol:

I just completed installing my Supertones using your 'instructions', but with a couple of tweaks:

1. I used 14/16 guage speaker wire for the power lead and ground lead, whereby I twisted the +/- ends to connect to the female connectors to the relay, and I was able to ground the horns together. This way I didn't have to use vampire clips.

2. I used dielectric grease and heat-shrinked all my connections - I'm a neatness freak.

3. I installed the horns on the hood latch release area.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o104/wrXmon/IMG_5085.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o104/wrXmon/IMG_5088.jpg

Excellent write-up!

Based on what has been said, not only do the horns look good, but that they are producing a louder tone - which is what you want.

What I don't understand is since the Supertones are supplanting the stock horns, then why is there the need for the secondary relay? Is there a substantial difference in amperes [draw] between the Supertones and the stock horns? If there is, then I see the need for the relay.

I know that outside of the US laws, rules, requirements and availability of equipment and parts can and has varied and thus when one purchased such a kit, whether for primary or secondary installation purposes, one got a complete kit.

Just curious; and thanks.

The reason for the relay is because the OEM horn wires are pretty wimpy which can potentially prevent the horns from drawing enough current to be their loudest. With the relay, you use the OEM wires to trigger the relay then wire up the horns so they have essentially a direct connection to the battery with some adequate wires.

So everyone is REMOVING their stock horns? Say it ain't so Joe!

So everyone is REMOVING their stock horns? Say it ain't so Joe!

Mine are disconnected, it sounds a little silly with both sets of horns. Glad to see this was of help to everyone who used it ....and thanks for the feedback on what you changed from what I did :)

Dave

Thanks a lot for this write up,
Just installed mine today.
The only thing I did different was that I went with two vampire clips into the ground wire (3 connection for the relay and each horn)

Great write up. I installed mine last Thurs..

What to do:

2. Disconnect one of the factory horns (or both if you desire). Don't cut the connectors, you will need to use one of them later.

~CvD


What do you do with each wire that runs to each factory horn?

1 factory horn lead attaches to the hella relay. Where does the other factory horn lead go??

You can let the other horn wire just dangle or leave the OEM horn plugged in and in place.

Or do what i did:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/psydotek/Official%20Car%20Gallery/HellaSupertonesSmall.jpg

:devil:

What do you do with each wire that runs to each factory horn?

1 factory horn lead attaches to the hella relay. Where does the other factory horn lead go??

You can either disconnect it, or leave it connected. Your choice :) Sorry I wasn't clear about that, but both of mine are disconnected. In reality, you can leave both of them connected if you want, but you'll need to splice into one of them if you do.

Hope that helps.

nice write up, installed mine yesterday

Excellent write up. I used this write up, along with placing the horns on the hood latch bolts, and the wiring diagram in the middle of this post here:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=510523&page=5

to perfection! I also used heat shrink tubing, and anti-oxidation grease (similar to dielectric grease I believe), and wire loom to cover it all up.

... and wire loom to cover it all up.

I went back and covered all exposed wires with wire loom, and found some better heat shrink covered cable ends and replaced them too.:banana:

Psydotek,

Is that a third Supertone?!! If so what a great idea!!:banana:

Psydotek,

Is that a third Supertone?!! If so what a great idea!!:banana:
Yep, i've got 3 supertones. :D One for every sound frequency, 300Hz, 380Hz, and 500Hz.

I picked up the "made in india" kit (the 300/380Hz combo) then added the 500Hz horn later. The little tab in front of the radiator is a nice mounting spot. I was able to pick up the single horn from www.rallylights.com.

I've got mine on order and I'm no electromotrician, but I'll give it a shot

**looks up the word "relay" in the dictionary**

I've got calibrated noise dosimeters at work, I'll measure them and post when I get them installed - and see how close to 118 they really are! - with appropriate hearing protection of course. :banana:

OK, if anyone is still reading this thread, I installed a 300/500 MHz set of Made in Germany Supertones behind the grill of my rex.

I measured the noise today using a calibrated noise dosimeter. The results are as follows:

Within 2 inches of the horn: 135 to 141 dbA
Six feet away at knee height: 118 dbA
Six feet away at head height: 110 dbA

Hearing protection is recommended in any workplace above 85 dbA and required above 90 dbA average over 8 hours. I think every 3 decibels the sound pressure energy doubles. The remaining interpretation I'll leave to you. Just a little industrial hygiene for y'all. :banana:

That's impressive. I feel bad for any bastard that decides to cut me off ... no, no I don't.

OK, if anyone is still reading this thread, I installed a 300/500 MHz set of Made in Germany Supertones behind the grill of my rex.

I measured the noise today using a calibrated noise dosimeter. The results are as follows:

Within 2 inches of the horn: 135 to 141 dbA
Six feet away at knee height: 118 dbA
Six feet away at head height: 110 dbA

Hearing protection is recommended in any workplace above 85 dbA and required above 90 dbA average over 8 hours. I think every 3 decibels the sound pressure energy doubles. The remaining interpretation I'll leave to you. Just a little industrial hygiene for y'all. :banana:
Oh snap! :eek: Good thing i got 3 of them... :huh: :devil:

sound clip of the actual horn i havent been able to find 1 i know they are MUCH louder but i dont want the tone of a mack truck or the high pitch honk of a ferrari.


i had posted a sounclip of the supertones compared to stock meep meep horn. (MY00RS).

The clip does not do it justice at all. However, the look on other peoles faces when they poop their pants does.

I just installed mine today. I followed the write-up in this post. The only thing I did differently was plug the wire from the factory horn directly into the relay. I thought it would be a little cleaner that way. Well the horns dont work right now. I was wondering if that was the cause. Any help would be great!

I just installed mine today. I followed the write-up in this post. The only thing I did differently was plug the wire from the factory horn directly into the relay. I thought it would be a little cleaner that way. Well the horns dont work right now. I was wondering if that was the cause. Any help would be great!

That shouldn't make a difference. Check to make sure you have good grounds and that your wires are all connected to the correct numbers on the relay.

I'd simply trace each wire to make sure it's all hooked up correctly. I'm going to assume you either have a bad ground or something not connected correctly.

I also bought solid copper wire for some reason so I don't know if that would matter. For my grounds I did them in the same place as you did. When I took off the bolt the little washer fell and I lost it, could that matter? I am just throwing ideas out there. Thanks for the quick reply

Did you sand/file off the paint so your ground hits bare metal?

No I just took out the bolt and put the horn wire and the other one back and tightend it up. Do you think that is the cause??

No I just took out the bolt and put the horn wire and the other one back and tightend it up. Do you think that is the cause??

Could be, get a multimeter and start checking :) You'll need a friend to hit the horn though. If all wiring and grounds look good, maybe a bad relay?

Also, by solid wire, I'm assuming it's also coated and not just bare wire, right?

yeah it's coated

Hey, not to be a jerk, or hate on anybody, but in the original write up, you meant 14 ga. when you said 14G, right?

LOL, yes ... 14 gauge.

I figured it out, the copper wire was so hard that the vampire clips did not make a connection... thanks for the help though

hey, does the relay make a big difference? I just did mine without the relay, and they're friggin loud. but louder would be even better.

Nice write-up.

A few other questions though.

The Supertones I got have the mounting bars already installed on the horns. Per the instructions, they say that there is supposed to be a 2.7mm hole in the bar to mount the horns, however the ones I got have 10mm holes - the same size as the other end where the horn itself is mounted to the bar.

Do the horns have to be mounted directly behind the grille? I ask because if I don't want them to be seen, I would rather mount them behind the bumper beam as is the one factory horn. Do I want these nice big red horns to be seen? Maybe.

Per the instructions, and this also make sense, you can opt to wire the Supertones in place of the factory horns or you can add a switch inside the cabin and effectively switch between the factory horns and the Supertones.

Anywho, I'll take any comments / suggestions, b/c I have to wait a few more months to do any such work.

Thanks much.

Nice write-up.

A few other questions though.

The Supertones I got have the mounting bars already installed on the horns. Per the instructions, they say that there is supposed to be a 2.7mm hole in the bar to mount the horns, however the ones I got have 10mm holes - the same size as the other end where the horn itself is mounted to the bar.

Do the horns have to be mounted directly behind the grille? I ask because if I don't want them to be seen, I would rather mount them behind the bumper beam as is the one factory horn. Do I want these nice big red horns to be seen? Maybe.


You can mount them wherever you want. They're loud as hell, so it doesn't really matter.


Per the instructions, and this also make sense, you can opt to wire the Supertones in place of the factory horns or you can add a switch inside the cabin and effectively switch between the factory horns and the Supertones.

Yup, just use the wire that you'd splice into the factory horns for the switched wire.

Anywho, I'll take any comments / suggestions, b/c I have to wait a few more months to do any such work.

Thanks much.

Good luck.

hey, does the relay make a big difference? I just did mine without the relay, and they're friggin loud. but louder would be even better.

Yes, it makes a difference.

Do the horns have to be mounted directly behind the grille? I ask because if I don't want them to be seen, I would rather mount them behind the bumper beam as is the one factory horn. Do I want these nice big red horns to be seen? Maybe.

i painted mine flat black and have them mounted behind the grille looking out. i didn't want to red to stick out.... now after 88,000 miles, 2 and a half years, they are actually black with red specs, but you get the idea.

dm

OMG I needed this thread so bad.

I've had mine in for a long time, but no relay. Guess I should do that.

i painted mine flat black and have them mounted behind the grille looking out. i didn't want to red to stick out.... now after 88,000 miles, 2 and a half years, they are actually black with red specs, but you get the idea.

dm

Ha... mine are blue with red specs...:lol:

Hi, sorry to keep this thread alive but I have some quick questions:

You can mount them wherever you want. They're loud as hell, so it doesn't really matter.

From my experience the Hella Supertones are _highly_ directional. And it seems that the desired effect from a Supertone installation is maximizing the loudness delivered to the intended recipient. Then wouldn't the most important consideration in the installation be to minimize the loss between the highly directional horn drivers and the intended recipient by avoiding reflection and mitigating obstructions that absorb sound?? And by that I mean installing the horns in a location that the overwhelming majority of the sound reaches the recipient by means of a direct path (ie: grille install, not in the bumper).

Yes, it makes a difference.

Exactly why and in what respect does using the supplied Hella (fog light?) relay make a difference? I am utilizing the stock Mitsuba RC-5001 relay and I am not experiencing a significant change in voltage drop across the horn after it is actuated. And the stock wiring insulation and relay are not overheating, even after extended use (alarm). If anything I would think the stock wiring would add the most resistance to the circuit, maybe a couple ohms at most; and the relay can't possibly be contributing more than 100mOhm of contact resistance. Keeping in mind that these horns are only pulling 72W after all..

Has anyone experienced a relay melted shut from overloading? Or stock wires fuming or connectors melting? Has anyone performed dB measurements for Supertones using the stock relay, for comparison's sake?

Battery connection with fuse:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1952/20061111images0036xs9.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7040/20061111images0041al7.jpg

what is that? just the power to the relay?

Yep, that goes to the relay #30 pinout.

just found this thread and just picked up a set of supertones for my 05. quick question, when you mount the supertones themselves with the attached metal piece, do they stick out almost next to the grill? reason i ask is because i did a "dry run" fitting them up to see what it would look like and they sat real close to the grill

lemme know soon!

Yes, they'll be really close to the grill.

installed mine today. took way longer than i want to admint but everything came out perfect. used the relay which was also wired to a switch (power on/off to the hellas) inside the cabin. i suggest doing this in case you still want to make 'friendly' beeps with just the 2 OEM horns. but for 'jerk' beeps, flip the switch and OEM + Hellas are used when honking.

i'm glad i read this thread to find out about the 'dielectric grease'. i didn't know the name of it before. gonna put it on the relay connections.

FYI, here's the install instructions from Griot's Garage (where I bought my Supertones from).

http://www.griotsgarage.com/pdfs/77573.pdf

Page 2 shows the relay wiring diagram. I need to hook it up, one of these days, in both of our cars.

They don't mention a fuse, though....?...

i think the fuse is just for safety. if something happens with the horn and blows the fuse, then only the hellas lose power.

installed mine today. took way longer than i want to admint but everything came out perfect. used the relay which was also wired to a switch (power on/off to the hellas) inside the cabin. i suggest doing this in case you still want to make 'friendly' beeps with just the 2 OEM horns. but for 'jerk' beeps, flip the switch and OEM + Hellas are used when honking.

i'm glad i read this thread to find out about the 'dielectric grease'. i didn't know the name of it before. gonna put it on the relay connections.

I'm planning on installing mine in the same way as you did yours though I'm a wiring noob. Do have any write ups on how to install the switch? Can this switch be had at Radio Shack as well?


ryan

I'm planning on installing mine in the same way as you did yours though I'm a wiring noob. Do have any write ups on how to install the switch? Can this switch be had at Radio Shack as well?
ryan

i don't have a write up. installing the switch was my first time also. first i just installed the supertones with the relay. i think the directions posted recently in this thread are ok. installed it so that the original horns are also still hooked up. it's easy to hook up the switch afterwards. basically, instead of having the power wire go from the battery to the relay, it would go to the switch. then another wire from the switch goes back to the relay. the wires went through the grommit right behind the intercooler. i got the switch from kragen (http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryCode=3063B&SearchFor=Switches+-+Universal+-+Rocker). however, the one i got that 'looked' like it would fit in one of the 'blank' switch spots, didn't fit well at all. i ended up jamming it in and a small part of the top broke off. now my switch is stuck permanently but it didn't look too bad. i think you want a generic switch for import cars.

I understand the thoughts behind putting the hella's on a switch, but when your going to need them you won't have the time to throw a switch!!

dm

you can always leave it in the 'on' position.

i posted this inanother thread but here it goes again:

hey, i have another question about this....
im not a subaru owner, i drive a VW, but way more subarus have supertones, so i cant really ask this to my VW forum....
my question is, yesterday i tried hooking the horns up, and i messed up....smoke came out of my power thingy on the relay...
i dont know why it happened....but it happened....
now i think my relay is done? what can i do? i need the car back to normal by sunday

go buy a new relay from radio shack

what kinda relay?
do they have specific 4 pole 30A 12V relay?
i hardly found that online

www.partsexpress.com

Could try them, they sell all kinds of stuff. Or:

www.monoprice.com may have them, not sure.

The reason for the relay is because the OEM horn wires are pretty wimpy which can potentially prevent the horns from drawing enough current to be their loudest. With the relay, you use the OEM wires to trigger the relay then wire up the horns so they have essentially a direct connection to the battery with some adequate wires.
apparently you dont "need" one but its recommended.

i would just take it to radio shack or an electrical type store and say "do you have a relay like this?"

this should work right?

12VDC/30A SPST Automotive Relay
i cant post a link cause of my post thingy....but its a radioshack wit 4 poles


i worked on the car so long yesterday, cause for VWs, i have to take the bumper off, the crash bar off....thn i kept running out of wires....and had to wait for other ppl to drive me around and sht....

and why exactly did the smoke come out? cause i didnt have a fuse on the powere wire?

I hooked mine up but is it supposed to sound like a loud clown car? I dunno if maybe I reversed the polarity or something with the wiring on the horns themselves. Could that cause my car to sound like a clown car?

and why exactly did the smoke come out? cause i didnt have a fuse on the powere wire?
did you disconnect your battery before messing with it? what wires were hooked up to which connectors.

I hooked mine up but is it supposed to sound like a loud clown car? I dunno if maybe I reversed the polarity or something with the wiring on the horns themselves. Could that cause my car to sound like a clown car?
Does it play that circus clown song? The one that kept playing in Homer Simpsons head when he was contemplating going to clown college? :lol:

It has a little bit higher pitch than stock but very loud.

Does it play that circus clown song? The one that kept playing in Homer Simpsons head when he was contemplating going to clown college? :lol:

It has a little bit higher pitch than stock but very loud.

I wish it played that lol. I'm wondering if they're canceling each other out and I'm only hearing one of the stock horns.

So they're set up to play the stock and hellas at the same time? I can hardly hear my stock horns while the hellas are on. how are you listening to individual horns? are they all mounted in the front? you're not putting your ear against them are you? how are they wired?

aight i got them to work yesterday, and went out to a plaza to scare ppl haha...
they worked once i got the new relay....thanks everyone for helpin

How i wired mine to switch between using only stock horns and using stock horns + hellas.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/meplanet/WRX/mysupertoneswiring.jpg

Great installation instructions - I didn't even bother reading the wiring diagram (not that I'd be able to or anything...) I had to do mine over the course of 2 days since I've been getting home so late from work, I only have about 30 minutes of usable daylight, so one day was spent measuring wire and making all the connectors, and tonight I just finished running them, bolting up the horns and taping everything up.

bye bye meep meep
hello BWWAAAAAHHAAAAPPP BWWWWAAAAHHHHHAAPAP

I finished my Hella install today and I have a noob question.
I disconnected the battery for about four hours.
Got the horns working fine. I blasted them about 5 times with the car off.
When I went to turn the car over.... *whirr whirr whirr* *whirr whirr starts!* Took two tries at 5 seconds a pop.
I drove it around for a minute and reset the radio stations.
Once it was running, no problems. It just didn't want to kick over.
Normal? I've never disconnected the battery before. Anything else to watch for that might indicate I mis-wired something causing the rough start?

Oh, the Hella's rock. :)

I finished my Hella install today and I have a noob question.
I disconnected the battery for about four hours.
Got the horns working fine. I blasted them about 5 times with the car off.
When I went to turn the car over.... *whirr whirr whirr* *whirr whirr starts!* Took two tries at 5 seconds a pop.
I drove it around for a minute and reset the radio stations.
Once it was running, no problems. It just didn't want to kick over.
Normal? I've never disconnected the battery before. Anything else to watch for that might indicate I mis-wired something causing the rough start?

Oh, the Hella's rock. :)

ya normal. some stuff has to reset. next time just turn the key to the on position without starting the engine, for about 5 -10 seconds first. then turn the engine.

subscribed for future reference

[edit] replied in wrong thread.

What happens if I don't use the optional fuse for the power?

^^ if you get a short circuit..... your car goes up in flames.

^^ if you get a short circuit..... your car goes up in flames.
it's more likely that you'll fry your battery and horns first ... probably not fire, but still a dumb thing to not use a fusr

Can that be done on a Legacy? And did you hook up the fuse with the relay to the + positive terminal of the battery?

Yes on both counts.

so you can't put Hellas in place of stock horns with stock wiring and everything else stock????

so you can't put Hellas in place of stock horns with stock wiring and everything else stock????

You should really do some more reading.:rolleyes:

well...here's the deal...you can install them using the stock wiring...they work...they aren't as loud.

the smartest way to hook up is use the power signal from the horn as a signal power to close the contact on the relay and run it like everyone else suggests. FUSE BETWEEN THE BATTERY AND HORNS!!!! ( cheaper to buy a fuse and some wiring for horns than a whole wiring harness)

Here is my problem with what a lot of you have to say.... i am an electrian and on our planes we use 18-22 gauge wire all day long (running more amps than those horns put out) ..so using the stock wiring to run the added amperage really wont damage anything...its just the voltage drop from not being a direct path causes less voltage to go to the horns therefore being quieter

If you use the stock wiring, you can potentially blow a fuse if you honk the horn for a period of time. It also won't be as loud because the stock wiring doesn't draw enough current for the Hellas. Better to use the relay.

Here is my problem with what a lot of you have to say.... i am an electrian and on our planes we use 18-22 gauge wire all day long (running more amps than those horns put out) ..so using the stock wiring to run the added amperage really wont damage anything...its just the voltage drop from not being a direct path causes less voltage to go to the horns therefore being quieter

Yeah, I remember that I estimated a 1/4V or 1/2V drop depending if the horns each or collectively draw 6A (confusing specs from Hella). This based on gauge and estimated length of both positive horn leads (not sure where they split). My ground connections were low gauge and direct to the adjacent chassis (negligible).

At first I was wondering if the difference in loudness between a 13V and a 13.5V drive would really be as noticeable as people here say. But I forgot all about it after I found virtually no drop when the horn was triggered.

I'm definitely going to use lower gauge wiring and big relays when I get 2 more horns though.

If you use the stock wiring, you can potentially blow a fuse if you honk the horn for a period of time. It also won't be as loud because the stock wiring doesn't draw enough current for the Hellas. Better to use the relay.

I didn't get that last part but you can honk your stock-wired Hellas all day long without blowing a fuse. The stock horn relay and surroundings may get just a bit armer than normal. But not as hot as the stock fog light relay.

Obviously if you've downgraded the fuse, kept the stock horns or wired in additional accessories to the horn circuit this will no longer apply.

It's always better to error on the side of caution by using a lower gauge wire and properly fusing the hot side. Most of you own 20-30K cars here, so why would you even consider potentially cutting a corner?

I'm not an electriction by any means, but I do have a basic understanding of circuitry and wiring. So take my advice FWIW.

It's always better to error on the side of caution by using a lower gauge wire and properly fusing the hot side. Most of you own 20-30K cars here, so why would you even consider potentially cutting a corner?

I'm not an electriction by any means, but I do have a basic understanding of circuitry and wiring. So take my advice FWIW.

Absolutely. Especially on a forum where people with varying amount of electrical knowledge are using this information. I certainly wouldn't want to be the reason someone smokes their fuse box.

But as EE with electrician experience I'm comfortable with operating the horns using most of the stock wiring, Mitsu relay and fuse based on my testing on my specific car. Besides, nothing will ever beat my great Nissan fire of 1996!

I just can't figure out (from going back and searching these threads) where the loudness explanation originated. It seems to me that one person said it and it has been endlessly repeated without being verified. I did see posts where people measured loudness with a meter but only with the upgraded wiring. I'd really like to compare the loudness of my horns between stock and bigger wiring and get some hard data. Even a difference in 3dB would sell me on it (whereas the safety margin improvements do not).

I did 12G and 10 Amp fuse.

Is there any reason why everyone if running 20 Amp fuses? Isn't that a bit excessive?

I did 12G and 10 Amp fuse.

Is there any reason why everyone if running 20 Amp fuses? Isn't that a bit excessive?

The Hella specs say 6A draw.. which either means total or for each horn. I think you've just proven that it's 6A total :) (which means it's barely above the draw for the stock horns).

Cheers on the writeup, it served me well. My supertones rock, just in time for the asshattery that is Street Vibrations here in Reno. Pics after my tint job on 9/26.

Honk honk you accountant-turned-harley biker you, move it or milk it.

Thanks for the input Mike. I don't believe anyone has any factual evidence to back up that certain wiring makes it louder than other wiring, nor any factual evidence that the relay must be used to make them louder. Hopefully I never stated either, and if I did, I take it back :)

Call me overly cautious, but when I had my STi, I didn't cut corners when modding considering the price tag associated with major f**k ups.

I haven't ever laid on them for a long amount of time, but i have not blown my 10 amp.

I haven't ever laid on them for a long amount of time, but i have not blown my 10 amp.

If the draw is 6 amps, then the 10 amp fuse should not blow. If you calculate the fuse size, then you could use a 7.5 amp fuse.

Typical fuse size calcultation --> 6A * 125% = 7.5A fuse

Since a 7.5A fuse isn't very common, we just use the next size up, 10A

can anyone help me locate the stock horn location(s)? I am a newb at all of this and could use the help!

Thanks,

Pete

Behind the front grill...2 horns, black, about 2 1/2" diameter

cool, found it. now i just need to know which terminal is + on the Hellas, can anyone help?

Pete

either side can be positive/negative. Just keep both horns the same polarity.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/Rippen_Griffin/HELLAHornsinstall-1.jpg

Fixed the pic...terminals were wrong on the relay

either side can be positive/negative. Just keep both horns the same polarity.

The horns are clearly marked at the terminals. Once is a copperish color, the other is silver. The instructions indicate which is which.


If you read my instructions completely, you'd see that I noted that in my first post :)

I checked my Hella Supertones today and there is NOT a positive or negative marked on the horns. Also, both terminals are copper. Maybe older models had the copper/silver terminals, but mine and 2 other sets that I installed on friends cars only had copper terminals.

either side can be positive/negative. Just keep both horns the same polarity.

I checked my Hella Supertones today and there is NOT a positive or negative marked on the horns. Also, both terminals are copper. Maybe older models had the copper/silver terminals, but mine and 2 other sets that I installed on friends cars only had copper terminals.

I agree, an electromagnetic horn would probably only have polarity markings for aesthetic reasons.

I would even go as far to say that both horns don't need to the same polarity -- the electromagnetic drivers do not transduce AC input like a loudspeaker (where polarity is obviously important). The DC input voltage induces an electromagnet which moves itself away from a conductive spring. When the electromagnet moves far enough away to break electrical contact with the spring it is no longer magnetic and returns to the spring. This action repeats and causes a "vibration" sound manifested by the electromagnetic driver's enclosure. The physical properties of the electromagnetic driver determine it's output frequency and the properties of the driver's enclosure determine the shape of it's sound output.

Even if these were loudspeakers and the phase was flipped for either the 300Hz or the 500Hz input (in reference to the other), the shift in the points of time (and corresponding combined wave magnitudes) where the destructive interference occurs within a comprehensive sample (5x 500Hz wavelengths long) would be indiscernible to the listener compared to the original output.

Sorry for rambling (incoherently?)

Even if these were loudspeakers and the phase was flipped for either the 300Hz or the 500Hz input (in reference to the other), the shift in the points of time (and corresponding combined wave magnitudes) where the destructive interference occurs within a comprehensive sample (5x 500Hz wavelengths long) would be indiscernible to the listener compared to the original output.



I was wondering about them being out of phase...thanks for answering that.

I was wondering about them being out of phase...thanks for answering that.

I was re-reading the part you quoted about loudspeakers and I can barely understand what I wrote last night :lol:

Edit: looking for an online wave superposition calculator but I couldn't find anything. Best bet for visualizing the interference (if these were loudspeakers and you had control of the phases) is a graphing calculator: Compare x(t)=(sin(300t)+sin(500t)) versus x(t)=(sin(300t)+sin(500t+A)) while varying A between 0 and ~0.0017. For the horns this A value is arbitrary and therefore there would be no benefit to flipping one horn's phase even if it was possible to.

Thanks for the help. Did mine yesterday \ today. Loud and Different. I used the relay for the Hella's and left one of the stock horns connected. I have a Process West Oil Cooler so both Hella's are in the Right Grill area as the Oil Cooler takes up all the Left. Kind of blocks the radiator, but it's getting air around the horns and thru the Oil Cooler and thru the bottom grill

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/Rippen_Griffin/HELLAHornsinstall.jpg

Thanks for this, it messed me up last night. You switched the 86 and 87 and had me scratching my head for about an hour last night so I gave up. Came in this morning and decided to look @ another one on here and reversed 86 and 87 and WOW! it works! :banana:

delete

i installed the horns on my car according to the directions it came with and i used this thread for help. which came in very handy btw. anwyays i was wondering, when i lock and unlock the car and the horns chirp or whatever, they sound like they are dying. any ideas as to why they would sound like this?

Excellent instructions, just finished mine in a about a hour. I used the diagram and had to read other post's about the fact that the 87 and 86 lead's are backwards. Great write up!!!:)

i installed the horns on my car according to the directions it came with and i used this thread for help. which came in very handy btw. anwyays i was wondering, when i lock and unlock the car and the horns chirp or whatever, they sound like they are dying. any ideas as to why they would sound like this?

The duration of the chirp is so small that the horn's output may only contain the transient portions of what you normally hear. These portions correspond to the time periods in which the (electromagnetic) drivers in the horn are traveling from still to operating frequency and vice versa. So either the chirp's duration only contains a trivial time period of normal output. Or the chirp's duration may even be shorter than the duration of this slew rate effect and the drivers don't even reach operating frequency.

Or simply put, it's normal..

i installed the horns on my car according to the directions it came with and i used this thread for help. which came in very handy btw. anwyays i was wondering, when i lock and unlock the car and the horns chirp or whatever, they sound like they are dying. any ideas as to why they would sound like this?

The duration of the chirp is so small that the horn's output may only contain the transient portions of what you normally hear. These portions correspond to the time periods in which the (electromagnetic) drivers in the horn are traveling from still to operating frequency and vice versa. So either the chirp's duration only contains a trivial time period of normal output. Or the chirp's duration may even be shorter than the duration of this slew rate effect and the drivers don't even reach operating frequency.

Or simply put, it's normal..

To offset that effect somewhat, I left one of the stock horns installed. You can still here that effect but the stock horn helps fill in.

The duration of the chirp is so small that the horn's output may only contain the transient portions of what you normally hear. These portions correspond to the time periods in which the (electromagnetic) drivers in the horn are traveling from still to operating frequency and vice versa. So either the chirp's duration only contains a trivial time period of normal output. Or the chirp's duration may even be shorter than the duration of this slew rate effect and the drivers don't even reach operating frequency.

Or simply put, it's normal..

thats what i figured. but very nicely put. ty for the scientific explanation :cool:

is it possible just to install one supertone? like if you want to just install the low end one would it be possible and still give sufficient noise? would the tone be inaudible because of how low it is or would it just sound reallly low like a mac truck?

is it possible just to install one supertone? like if you want to just install the low end one would it be possible and still give sufficient noise? would the tone be inaudible because of how low it is or would it just sound reallly low like a mac truck?



You don't have to have both. You can have as many or as few as you want. A single horn is still freakin loud. The tone differences aren't that much between the different horns either. They just compliment each other to make it louder.

Yeah, if you want that really low truck/train horn I would go with an air compressor and bell horn(s) -- that way you can choose the exact pitch and loudness you want via the horn dimensions and regulator settings, respectively.

Great write up. Had this subscribed, but could not find it.

This thread rock:banana:

But how do you split the wire into 2 with solid copper ones? Like the wire on your in-line fuse.

Just something to note for the '08 users. The first horn is located right behind the grille but the other is located up in the well near the right foglight/headlight. I spend hours searching when I finally got fed up and went over to the dealer and asked them. It's not to difficult to get in there to unplug it but its a pita to get the horn off and the bracket that was used is a P.O.S. It kept bending when I tried to take the horn it self off it. Thanks for the wonderful write up, although a few things worth mentioning would be that the 14g connectors didn't work for me as they wouldn't fit into the relay so I ended up using 12g wiring and connectors.

I'm gonna be following this guide as soon as my supertones arrive on friday!

can anyone else not see the pics?

The OP pics don't seem to be working, but there are pics on page 2 and 3 that will get you through the process.

subscribed for future reference.
had these sitting around for a while.
not i need to get them in.

will t-clams work just as good as vampire clips? i could not find those at my advancec autoparts

Thanks for the write-up. I got my set of Supertones today and will be installing soon, using this thread for help.

'Wiring Harness' - I made two of these, one for (+) and one for (-) to the horns: Note that the vampire clip is not taped/shring wrapped yet. Make sure you wrap or tape it.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/474/20061111images0031ih5.jpg


~CvD

I have a question: What is the blue box in this picture? Is it the vampire clip? Where can I buy these? I have looked everywhere on the internet for these. I'm trying to wire up my Supertones and I have everything except the vampire clips and the circular yellow things that are used to hook up the power and ground the horns. Another thing: How do you remove the fuse from the the terminal? The holder that it is in will not let it go and it currently has a 30 amp fuse in it. One more thing: Is there any way that you can draw a diagram or tell me in layman's terms how to build that harness. I'm not quite savvy with wiring lingo.

Helpful responses are GREATLY appreciated!!! I really need some help...:sadbanana:

^^^Nevermind about the fuse terminal. I got it out and replaced. :) A minor victory.

Blue box is the vampire tap.
But when making a new piece of wiring loom for the Hella's dont use em.
Use solder and heatshrink.

Vampire taps are mostly (and should be used only, I think) for splicing wires into a piece of wiring loom that isnt accesible enough for using a soldering iron/heatshrink/vulcanizing tape.

Blue box is the vampire tap.
But when making a new piece of wiring loom for the Hella's dont use em.
Use solder and heatshrink.

Vampire taps are mostly (and should be used only, I think) for splicing wires into a piece of wiring loom that isnt accesible enough for using a soldering iron/heatshrink/vulcanizing tape.

Ok...so what do I do here? Just make to connections to the + and - ends of the horns and then connect them to another major wire going to the black box that Hella provides?
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1250/40333301kx8.jpg

NOOO

You've read the earlier post by Car vs Driver incorrectly.

He's using 2 of the Supertones, and made 2 of those wiring looms in the picture.
1 for splitting the single 12v+ into 2 12v+'s to connect the S-tones, and 1 to connect the 2 grounds of the S-tones to a ground point.

What you are making there is 1 big short-circuit.

Use the original wire to trigger a 30 Amp bosch relay, and let that power the S-tones
So take the original Horn-wire, and use that on pole 85.
Ground the relay by connecting pole 86 to a ground

Then use a beefy wire (fused) directly from the battery + terminal to pole 30
Connect pole 87 to the Supertones, and ground the Supertones to the chassis of the car.

That way, when U press the horn-button, the stock wiring only has to handle the small current needed to trigger the relay, while the Power for the supertones actually comes directly from the battery, thru poles 30 and 87

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/relaytextA.gif

Ok...First off- thanks for being patient with me. I don't know much.

Is this the general idea?
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7855/45699517wh7.jpg
What should I do in the indicated places? Isn't that where the vampire clips would go?

Does anyone know?

you just hook the wires together.

you just hook the wires together.

With what? I'm asking Dutch Scooby lover about the correctness of everything. Does anyone know if the wiring diagram that I posted is correct? What do you tie the wires together with in the harness? Where can I get the vampire clips?

With what? I'm asking Dutch Scooby lover about the correctness of everything. Does anyone know if the wiring diagram that I posted is correct? What do you tie the wires together with in the harness? Where can I get the vampire clips?

Solder or crimp splice , whatever, just make sure they are well connected and insulated. I like to use heat shrink on soldered connections and even some crimped. Keeps them free of corrosion. You can get all that stuff at Harbor Freight , Radio Shack, or most hardware stores. Electrical section.

Solder or crimp splice , whatever, just make sure they are well connected and insulated. I like to use heat shrink on soldered connections and even some crimped. Keeps them free of corrosion. You can get all that stuff at Harbor Freight , Radio Shack, or most hardware stores. Electrical section.

Thanks! :) Again, does anyone know if my diagram on page 6 is the correct method for wiring these horns?

http://www.breaktaker.com/albums/pictures/signs/Bump.jpg

It is correct.
That is the way to do it.

The reason you solder/shrinktube it is the fact that the vampire taps are not exactly waterproof, and to avoid weird problems as a result of that fact.

Vampire taps are for the inside of a car (and even then they are a last resort), on the outside of the car, in a location possible exposed to water, dirt and mud I won't use em any way.

It is correct.
That is the way to do it.

The reason you solder/shrinktube it is the fact that the vampire taps are not exactly waterproof, and to avoid weird problems as a result of that fact.

Vampire taps are for the inside of a car (and even then they are a last resort), on the outside of the car, in a location possible exposed to water, dirt and mud I won't use em any way.

So I just take a wire and fork it into two lines, solder and shrink wrap it? Cool! Thanks for all the help!!!:banana::banana:

Just an FYI, My friend has been running these in his 2004 WRX wagon for 3+ years now with no relay! That's right just use the factory horn wire and grounded the hella's to a good bare metal spot. No ill effects, no melted wires, no broken horns, or popped fuses. Even easier.

Just an FYI, My friend has been running these in his 2004 WRX wagon for 3+ years now with no relay! That's right just use the factory horn wire and grounded the hella's to a good bare metal spot. No ill effects, no melted wires, no broken horns, or popped fuses. Even easier.

Ill effects are NOT why most choose to use the relay. Using the relay and a direct power connection is cheap assurance that the nice loud horns are getting full power. I would bet that mine are louder than your friends.

Just an FYI, My friend has been running these in his 2004 WRX wagon for 3+ years now with no relay! That's right just use the factory horn wire and grounded the hella's to a good bare metal spot. No ill effects, no melted wires, no broken horns, or popped fuses. Even easier.

Wire them up however you want, I simply put this together to show people how *I* wired mine as a guide. Thanks for the useless comment. :rolleyes:

Wire them up however you want, I simply put this together to show people how *I* wired mine as a guide. Thanks for the useless comment. :rolleyes:

Just a little bit edgy... aren't we... :alien: I meant no offense to your wiring skills. I'm just sharing with people that may not otherwise upgrade their horns to the Hellas due to the additional wiring. And before anyone (not you in particular) tries to undermine this post of clarification (not attack) I do know how to wire a relay, my job in some form or another since high school has been mobile electronics installation. So this is simply another way for people who otherwise wouldn't take the time or doubt their wiring skills severely to add an accessory to their car; so don't take offense at my useless comment. ;)

Just an FYI, My friend has been running these in his 2004 WRX wagon for 3+ years now with no relay! That's right just use the factory horn wire and grounded the hella's to a good bare metal spot. No ill effects, no melted wires, no broken horns, or popped fuses. Even easier.

Just a little bit edgy... aren't we... :alien: I meant no offense to your wiring skills. I'm just sharing with people that may not otherwise upgrade their horns to the Hellas due to the additional wiring. And before anyone (not you in particular) tries to undermine this post of clarification (not attack) I do know how to wire a relay, my job in some form or another since high school has been mobile electronics installation. So this is simply another way for people who otherwise wouldn't take the time or doubt their wiring skills severely to add an accessory to their car; so don't take offense at my useless comment. ;)

I mean no offense either, but your first post, unintentionally I am sure, could be taken to mean the relay is not needed. At least that is how I read it. :D Read the red and then the blue, it's like night and day to me, or at least dusk and dawn.

The reason for the relay is because the OEM horn wires are pretty wimpy which can potentially prevent the horns from drawing enough current to be their loudest. With the relay, you use the OEM wires to trigger the relay then wire up the horns so they have essentially a direct connection to the battery with some adequate wires.

hey, does the relay make a big difference? I just did mine without the relay, and they're friggin loud. but louder would be even better.

Yes, it makes a difference.

apparently you dont "need" one but its recommended.

i would just take it to radio shack or an electrical type store and say "do you have a relay like this?"

Also note, ^^^^, and these are just some of them,^^^, that the fact that you don't have to use the realy, has already been covered well in this thread. I know it's a long read but it helps us all if we actually read a thread before we post. Guilty myself and not saying you are, just pointing out that it is already been said.;)

Just an FYI, My friend has been running these in his 2004 WRX wagon for 3+ years now with no relay! That's right just use the factory horn wire and grounded the hella's to a good bare metal spot. No ill effects, no melted wires, no broken horns, or popped fuses. Even easier.

nice, im gonna install mine tomorrow so hopefully everything goes as planned.

Connect pole 87 to the Supertones, and ground the Supertones to the chassis of the car.

That way, when U press the horn-button, the stock wiring only has to handle the small current needed to trigger the relay, while the Power for the supertones actually comes directly from the battery, thru poles 30 and 87

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/relaytextA.gif

so whats the difference between poles 87 and 87a in this diagram?

I believe 87A is the exact opposite of what we want.
The horn will sound, unless u press the button.

The 87a terminal can come in handy sometimes, but not in this application.
Also a standard 4 pole Bosch Automotive relay won't even have the 87A terminal, but this picture was the only one i could find.

I believe 87A is the exact opposite of what we want.
The horn will sound, unless u press the button.

The 87a terminal can come in handy sometimes, but not in this application.
Also a standard 4 pole Bosch Automotive relay won't even have the 87A terminal, but this picture was the only one i could find.

the relay i've got with my supertones has the 87a relay. makes sense that its essentially a switch. maybe i should wire it up to 87a and just drive around blasting constantly :lol:

Fitted these today, thanks for all the info it made the job a whole lot easier.Got my mate to ship them to this side of the pond as they are not availible here, glad he did they are soooooooooooo loud.

Markie

I believe 87A is the exact opposite of what we want.
The horn will sound, unless u press the button.

The 87a terminal can come in handy sometimes, but not in this application.
Also a standard 4 pole Bosch Automotive relay won't even have the 87A terminal, but this picture was the only one i could find.

I was just about to ask about this.

I was worried that the horns weren't getting propper voltage from the vampire clip so I went out and got a 5 pin relay about a month ago. Just tried to install it today and I noticed it would honk as soon as I hooked up the negative battery cable. I assumed I had a bad relay because it wouldn't do that on the 87 terminal, only on the 87a terminal. Went out and bought another relay and the same thing happened...now I know why. Thanks for the explanation:).

BTW, I heard that if I install them in-line with each other, the voltage gets divided between the 2 horns (6v each):eek:. Is this true? I hope not because this seems like the easiest way to do it. Let me know :D

If you mount them inline the voltage would indeed be halved.
That's why you would use a 12v fused cable from battery to 30, and then use a Y-shaped wire from 87 to both horns, that way they are parallel.

This JPG gives a simplified lay-out.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/HellaStones.jpg

If you mount them inline the voltage would indeed be halved.
That's why you would use a 12v fused cable from battery to 30, and then use a Y-shaped wire from 87 to both horns, that way they are parallel.

This JPG gives a simplified lay-out.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/HellaStones.jpg

Do you know of a better way to split the wire? I was using a vampire clip for a while, but I really don't think it was sending 100% of the voltage...Also, it just plain fell off twice! I had to re-cut and re-strip the wires, and I know I had it clamped tight.

Yes I have
Step by step instructions

Disclaimer
I just used 2 pieces of wire i had laying about for the pictures.
They aren't nearly thick enough for the horns or lighting.

Length of wire
(Long enough to reach the Supertone farthest away from pole 87 from the relay)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/IMG_0491.jpg

About 15-20 cm from the end strip a 2cm piece of wire.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/IMG_0492.jpg

Take another piece of wire,long enough to reach the second Supertone, and strip about 1,5 cm from the end.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/IMG_0493.jpg

Twist the exposed end of wire number 2 around the stripped piece of wire number 1.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/IMG_0494.jpg

Solder (iron was cold, so this solder joint isn't the best.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/IMG_0495.jpg

Take a 3cm piece of shrinkwrap tubing, and shove it over the soldered joint.
Heat it,so it shrinks around the soldered connection.

I don't have Supertones, but the idea still applies. I picked up a set of Stebel Magnum compact air horns (which seem to me to still be electromagnetic, but anyway), and wired them up - very much louder than stock but lower sound than the Supertones.

I ended up hooking them up to stock wiring because they draw 6A (each I think), and the horn fuse is rated for 15A - no problems. But I digress...

My idea is to set up a relay with some sort of simple RC circuit to delay the Stebels' activation. The idea is to leave the stock horns hooked up so that when I hit the horn, the stockers sound, and then a half second later, the relay throws, and the Stebels activate. This would allow me to have just my normal horn for quick toots, but for the Stebels to sound when I lean on it. Hell I could throw in an adjustable trim-pot to vary the RC time delay.

I was thinking of modifying this idea on the12volt.com:
http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/constantmoment.gif

However, it's eluding me how to get the relay to have a delayed-on rather than a timed-off. There's got to be some way to set up the RC to hold the voltage at the relay coil low until the cap charges, but I can't figure it out offhand. Maybe there's another way to do this? I don't want to get into 555 timers and such.

Just a thought - can anyone run with it?

where are people putting their relay thingys?

and great write up - just didn't know where i should put the relay...does it REALLY have to have the terminals pointing down??

You should point the terminals down in case it gets wet, the water will drain. Other than that, put it anywhere you want. I put mine right next to the battery in an easy spot to get to.

@ Cmags.
I believe that what U want is possible.
I I look at your diagram, my best guess is to use the cap/res setup on your 12v trigger line to the relay.

So splice into the original wiring to the stock horn, and add a line there (that's the switched 12v in the diagram).
Add the resistor/cap there and it would work i think.

On the opther hand, there is this circuit from a reputable source on car electronics (the12volt.com)
that is a bit hard to read, but will work.

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/uploads/delayed_on_timer.gif

Sorry to bring back an old thread but just one quick question. I'm not very knowledgable of electrical stuff so I just want to make sure it would be ok to use 12g wire for this install. I have a spool of 12g lying around and dont wanna buy 14g unless I have to. Thats all, thank for the help.
~Cheers

you can use 12g no problems.

Thank you Tahoe! Figured it would be fine, just dont wanna bork somethign up somehow. :rolleyes:

ok here is what I did there is one wire running to each stock horn I unplugged them and ran them to each of my hella horns positive side, I then made a wire in a "Y" to run to each of the hella horns negative side and to a ground as far as I can hear this is the easiest way to hook these up:alien:

What's the total cost of materials needed for install? Need to know what option I should go with (LightWerkz harness or do it myself). Let me know.

LightWerkz Harness HERE (http://lightwerkz.net/prod_subaru.htm)

What's the total cost of materials needed for install? Need to know what option I should go with (LightWerkz harness or do it myself). Let me know.

LightWerkz Harness HERE (http://lightwerkz.net/prod_subaru.htm)

Those are wiring harnesses for lights dude, not horns. Either way, it's like $10 total for all supplies needed (wiring, connectors and fuse). Just go to radio shack or home depot for supplies and you're set.

Good to know. But FYI there is a scoll down where you can select hella horn harness.

lol for $45? FTS

Yeah, it's freakin expesive in comparison. I spent about $20 at Lowes last night, but didn't buy the vampir clips. Is there something else that can be used?

Yep, you can solder the wires together as stated (and pictured) in an above post.

no gun to do it. Anything else?

Found this thread just browsing around. I bought my Supertones three years ago and used the stock horn wiring. Back then, I didn't know there was a difference so I just used the stock wiring. I'd lke to run the horns this way using the relay and etc. Problem is I can't find the relay that came with the horns - it's been too long and I probably trashed them :o

Would I be able to buy the relay from Hella or could I buy something else that would work just as well? I know I'll be able to find the other materials at my local Harbor Freight and Radio Shack. Thanks for the write-up. Looking forward to having even louder and more reliable horns :)

no gun to do it. Anything else?

I don't understand why you can't just buy the $.20 wire connectors and do it like the thread (and others within the thread) have suggested. No offense, but I don't see the problem here.

I was reading on the thread about the crappy vampire clips. No offense taken, but I only want to do the job once.

It's all preference. IMHO the clips will work fine if you tape them up - I had no problems. otherwise, just use any butt connectors; cut the wire then splice them all together.

See here:
http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0E00CA5C31F90700A77A081+M37+ENG

I'm a body guy, not an electrician. Took me an hour and a half, but I also tried to ground the horns with the relay, so had to fix some stuff. Here are my pics, going to eventually move the wire loom.

Halfway Installed
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/biker921/IMG_0085.jpg

In the Night
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/biker921/IMG_0087.jpg

In the Garage
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/biker921/IMG_0088.jpg

Just tuck those looms away and done! Remove the stock horns too.

Looks good man, nice job. Just hide that wiring and you're good to go.

doing mine tomorrow!

LOL...I'm doing mine tomorrow too. I'm going to be running mine into a switch so I can just use the stock horn when necessary.

So I read the whole thread, and I have a pretty good idea of how to install a set of supertones now. But I have four of them coming in. I just basically install the other set of horns the same way right?

Why would you want 4?

4 horns or 4 sets of horns??

if just 4 horns (2 sets) then yes.. just wire up them the same way. In fact if you use a relay, you can wire up both sets to the same relay :)

Do NOT run 2 sets of horns without a relay.


As for why you would want 2 sets... hehe...... let's just say one set is enough, 2 sets is MUCH better . (i'm running 2 sets in my '03 ts and my pickup, while my wrx has a single set in it... i'm saving the space in the grill for driving lights).

4 horns or 4 sets of horns??

if just 4 horns (2 sets) then yes.. just wire up them the same way. In fact if you use a relay, you can wire up both sets to the same relay :)

Do NOT run 2 sets of horns without a relay.


As for why you would want 2 sets... hehe...... let's just say one set is enough, 2 sets is MUCH better . (i'm running 2 sets in my '03 ts and my pickup, while my wrx has a single set in it... i'm saving the space in the grill for driving lights).

So I can just "Vampire" off the 87 connection two more times and run the power wires to the extra set of horns? This seems easier than wiring up everything twice, resulting in two relays.

Oh, and If i wire the two sets of horns up to one relay, should I get a fuse bigger than 20A?

yes and yes...


In the name of overkill, I used a 30A fuse, 40A relay, and a 10 guage run of wire (it was only about 2 feet long). I then just soldered 4 - 12 guage wires to the "main run" and attached each to their respective horns.

Because you are now pulling double the current through all the wiring (now that you are powering 2 sets of horns) you just have to ensure that everything (including the wiring) is up to the task :)

Another option is to go to your local autoparts store (or rally lights in my case) and pick up a dual 87 terminal relay........ so you can just hook up each set of horn to one 87 relay terminal. (remember you want a dual 87 terminal relay.. NOT a 87 and 87a terminal relay).

Huge thank you to Car vs. Driver for the write-up. I have the electrical know-how of a caveman and have always been quick to dish out $$$ to people for electrical installs. I spent $25 on supplies and a crap load of time doing it but I got my compact horns in and they sound great. Thanks again for the contribution.

Thanks CvD and everybody else for the install notes.

I installed my pair of Supertones yesterday evening. I kept the stock horns connected, using a vampire clip to run a line up to the relay. I got everything connected, but I forgot the dielectric grease. After I added the dielectric grease to all the connections this afternoon, tapped the horns and realized that the Supertones weren't sounding. After checking the connections lines with my multimeter, I found I blew the 20A fuse. I replaced the fuse, verified the signal path, and tapped the horn again. Still no Supertones. In fact, I kept blowing the fuse whenever I tapped the horn. :( I went through three fuses tonight.

I was using 20A quick-blow fuses that I picked up at RadioShack. Should I try a different type of fuse? Any other suggestions? Thanks.

You're welcome, glad it was a helpful thread.

thorongil ... you must have something crossed up somewhere, check your wiring again. You should NOT be blowing fuses like that.

Oops! I just realized I forgot the grease. Should I worry? What's the risk of not using it?

I didn't use any on mine, FWIW.

you don't "need" the grease, nice to have but not necessary.

thorongil: you should not be blowing fuses like that. There is likely a short in your system. Please double/triple check that all the wiring is correct before putting in a new fuse. I have both pairs of supertones running on a 20A fuse (in one of my cars, and a 30a fuse in my other car)and i've never blown it yet.... even with prolonged blowing :)

thorongil ... you must have something crossed up somewhere, check your wiring again. You should NOT be blowing fuses like that.
thorongil: you should not be blowing fuses like that. There is likely a short in your system. Please double/triple check that all the wiring is correct before putting in a new fuse. I have both pairs of supertones running on a 20A fuse (in one of my cars, and a 30a fuse in my other car)and i've never blown it yet.... even with prolonged blowing :)
I checked everything out again yesterday evening...and I found the short -- actually two! :eek: After I connected everything up on Saturday, I had to unbolt the horn brackets to reposition the horns a bit. When I bolted the brackets back on, I inadvertently pinched a lead wire under one bracket and a ground wire under the other. After re-running the wires and making sure none were pinched, my Supertones are working great now. I even got to legitimately use them this morning when some van decided to remain stopped after the traffic light turned green.

Thanks for the help!

I believe this chart is appropriate for this thread:

http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/funny-graphs-car-honking-and-movement.gif

Your post was useless, thanks for trying.

It was meant to be. :D

Eh, nevermind... The humor be lost on nasioc these days.

It seems that if I use a rocker switch to control if the Hella horns are active or not (as shown in post #88) there is a likely constant draw from the battery. Should this be a concern? Is a switched 12v source a better option?

My intent is to have both the stock horns and the Hella horns run in concert unless I disable the Hella horns with the switch. Since the switch will be in the on position 99% of the time, I want the least impact on my electrical system.

I will probably be doing a similar setup with some driving lights which will remain off most of the time but will be wired in a similar fashion.

Thanks for the pictures and wiring diagrams guys, it has been a lot of help planning out what I need to do.

The easiest way to hook up a switch would be to just run the power wire into the cabin, install the switch there, then run the output into the relay. That way, there is absolutely zero power draw in either on or off until you hit the actual horn button on the steering wheel.

About 15-20 cm from the end strip a 2cm piece of wire.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/DutchScoob/IMG_0492.jpg


Just wondering, how could you strip the middle of the wire without cutting it? Once you use your wire stripper to cut the coating off the wire, how did you remove it? Thanks!

use the wire stripper to cut the 2 ends of the strip.. then slice down the middle CARFULLY with a sharp knife. The "skin" can then be peeled off carefully.

Just make a cut in the sheathing and pull both ends to expose the wire. Then trin the ends off :)

Alternatively, you can use a lighter and just melt the sheathing away as well.

or you can buy a wire stripper that pulls the ends off instead of cutting

this DIY was a GREAT help!! it helped me understand the install better than the shotty translated one that came with them. Installed and sounds great, now ill get noticed when i need to. :D

/subscribed for when I install mine later

Looks great. Thanks for the FYI. I cant wait to do it myself.

Reason why I'm posting this is because I couldn't find a complete "how to" on installing Supertones. Sure, there's a few threads on there, but I had to look at 3-4 different ones to get the complete picture.

So, here's the complete installation and everything you'll need to do it. I hope it's helpful.


Supplies Needed:
1. Electrical Tape or Shrink Tube
2. Wire strippers
3. 14G Wire
4. 14G Male Connectors
5. 14G Female Connector
6. 20 AMP In-Line Fuse Terminal
7. 20 AMP Fuse
8. Zip Ties
9. Sime Wire Loom (if you want)
10. Small nuts, bolts & washers
11. 14G In-Line Wire Connectors
12. Vampire Clips

Tools Needed:
1. Screwdrivers
2. Wrenches (for small nuts and bolts)
3. 10mm Wrench
4. Wire Strippers
5. Pliers

What to do:

1. Remove the front grill. And figure out how you're going to mount the horns. I used two existing holes in the radiator support that centered both horns between the side of the grill and the Subaru emblem (see pictures).

2. Disconnect one of the factory horns (or both if you desire). Don't cut the connectors, you will need to use one of them later.

3. Look at the relay that came with the horns. The terminals are numbered, this is what those numbers mean:
87 - (+) Lead for the supertones.
86 - Where the stock horn wire conects.
85 - Relay ground wire.
30 - (+) Power wire, connects to the battery with a fuse.

4. Figure out where you want the relay, because that's going to decide on how you run the wires. Once you have that figured out ...

5. Use your 14G wire to make a harness for the #87 to go to the horns. I ran one 14G wire to one horn, then spliced the second horn with a vampire clip. At all three ends, I used 14G female connectors.

6. Take some 14G wire and crimp a 14G male connector on it. Plug this into one of your disconnected factory horn wires. Then put a female connector on the other end and plug it into terminal #86 on the relay.

7. Find a suitable ground and wire up #85 on the relay. I used a stock ground location next to the batery (see pictures).

8. Now, you need to ground the horns. I ran the ground to the passenger side ground location (see pics). I also made the exact same kind of wiring harness for the ground wire as I did with the (+) lead from the relay.

9. Last is making the connection to the battery. I used a ring terminal and conencted it right to the battery and ran the wire through the protective cover for a clean look. This is where you need to use a 20A fuse terminal.

10. Install your fuse into the fuse terminal and test your horns.

Some things to note:
1. On the horns, the copper connection is (+) to the relay. The silver connecion is (-) to the ground.
2. These mofo's are LOUD.
3. Safedrives kicks ass. Thanks Charles! Buy your supertones there!

Tools and connectors needed:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4510/20061111images0049ai9.jpg

'Wiring Harness' - I made two of these, one for (+) and one for (-) to the horns: Note that the vampire clip is not taped/shring wrapped yet. Make sure you wrap or tape it.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/474/20061111images0031ih5.jpg

Battery connection with fuse:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1952/20061111images0036xs9.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7040/20061111images0041al7.jpg

Relay ground location:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2746/20061111images0042yt7.jpg

Relay all wired up:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8536/20061111images0043zs5.jpg

Ground for horns:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1779/20061111images0044fo3.jpg

The final product:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/520/20061111images0045tf1.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4930/20061111images0047vu8.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9647/20061111images0048ir0.jpg

Enjoy! Let me know if I misstated anything, I just did the install, so it should all be accurate.

~CvD

What size of nut/bolt/washer should I use for the mounting the horn?

Whatever fits :) I just raided my nuts and bolts cabinet until I found ones that fit good engouh, I didn't measure them though.

There is so much comments and mods done to this... which one should I really use?

There is so much comments and mods done to this... which one should I really use?

Post #1 by Car vs. Driver

anyone painted supertones in black? that's what I plan on doing...

anyone painted supertones in black? that's what I plan on doing...

its been done.

yes I did...... they blend in very well

search my posts... I posted pics of them a while back....

its been done.

i got 1 pair sprayed black, 2 pair in red.



:lol:

in black??? I didn't know supertones where sold in black.... (would have saved me sooo much work)

Does anyone know if I'd be able to install these on a 01 LGT instead of the WRX? Not sure if there is really any difference other than mounting location.

No difference in wiring, possibly just the mounting location. Post pics of where you mount them if it's different.

Thanks!

No difference in wiring, possibly just the mounting location. Post pics of where you mount them if it's different.

Thanks!

Thanks, I will do that once I figure it out. I suck with installation of anything electrical, so we'll see :lol:

I have a set of these coming in and had a question. is the alarm 'chirp' created from the hellas or is there a seperate horn for the alarm activation note? also are most people unpluging both OEM horns and removing?

On my STi it was a seperate siren all together ... the OEM alarm in that car beeped and didn't honk the horn when it was armed. Not sure about any of the other cars.

it might depend on which factory horn you remove. my locking chirp and alarm are now from the hellas. i kinda wished the locking chirp wasnt so damn loud

On my STi it was a seperate siren all together ... the OEM alarm in that car beeped and didn't honk the horn when it was armed. Not sure about any of the other cars.

is your/the stock alarm siren one of the 2 infront of the radiator? if so which one?

My alarm siren was on the passenger side strut tower.

An easy way to check would be to stand in front of the car and set off the alarm. Then figure out what's making all the racket :)

My guess is that it'll be both since they're wired together (if you don't have a separate alarm). So, disconnecting one over the other won't make any difference.

'03 impreza TS..... alarm uses stock horn.

'06 wrx... chirps come from a pezo buzzard (like when bmw's lock a door).... hit the button 3 times to activate the "car finder" feature and the horns will sound.

I left one stock horn on my wrx.... on the ts I removed all the stock horns since I needed the extra room (2 pairs of hella's stuffed behind the grill). Honstly tho, you won't hear the stock horn much over the hella's

im hoping to keep the alarm on the quieter horn so i wont wake the neighborhood. thanks for the input! and great write up CvD

im hoping to keep the alarm on the quieter horn so i wont wake the neighborhood. thanks for the input! and great write up CvD

Like I said in my previous post, that's not possible if the alarm is wired to your horns. :D

if it bothers you just turn off the alarm horn

i dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet but i just installed mine today and the perfect ground is the bolts holding the existing stock horns..

it is possible, I have it setup on my truck like that..... F150 with 2 pairs of hella's + stock horn.

What I did is use a double throw relay (is that what they are called?? it's the one that has both the 85a and 85 pin) when you put power to the relay one pin is hot, when you cut the power the other pin is hot.

What I did was use this relay to switch between the stock horns and the hellas..... found myself a power line that was ignitioned switched and I was done....

Put the key in the car and turn it on, hella's are "hot"... lay on the horn and both the stock + 4 hella's will sound.... turn the car off and you revert back to stock horns.... This also means that when you lock/unlock the doors or trip the alarm only the stock horns will work.

I frogot to mention that this relay is only used to switch between the 2 horns... the hellas still get their power from a second relay as the stock horn wiring is NOT strong enough to power the stock horns + hella's.

Excellent write-up!

Based on what has been said, not only do the horns look good, but that they are producing a louder tone - which is what you want.

What I don't understand is since the Supertones are supplanting the stock horns, then why is there the need for the secondary relay? Is there a substantial difference in amperes [draw] between the Supertones and the stock horns? If there is, then I see the need for the relay.

I know that outside of the US laws, rules, requirements and availability of equipment and parts can and has varied and thus when one purchased such a kit, whether for primary or secondary installation purposes, one got a complete kit.

Just curious; and thanks.

yes the supertones draw more current....... more than what the stock system was designed for... will it work without the second relay.. yes... but you are cutting into the factory's "margin of error".

On top of that, my truck had 2 sets of hella's (4 horns) AND the stock horns... that would be way too much draw for the factory setup...

I don't believe any hard evidence has been provided either way on the usage of the relay. However, if it came with the parts to install with the horns, why would you not use them? That's like putting on a downpipe without a gasket - I mean, it might work, but it also might not :)

I finally took the time to install my supertones after having them for 2 months. Thanks for the all the info guys because it went really easy. Here is a pic without the grill back in yet, I have to make a few small adjustments for spacing to get it back in. I am waiting for the day to cool down some(high 80's right now with awesome humidity).just went back out(8pm) and finished. I decided to take the mesh out of the grill and I think it looks great that way, very badarse! Also took the car back to Radio Shack to show the guy working there and to scare the pants off of him. http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh87/bartles12/new%20funness/049.jpg

I used this guide. Surprisingly Radio Shack has those fuse terminals and pretty much everything else except here they only have 16 and 12 gauge wire, no 14 gauge so I went with 12 gauge which was just a tad difficult to work with when making the harness connecting the + and - sides of the horns. :mad:

From inside the car I wasn't sure that the sound was that much greater so I had my wife hit it while I was three feet away and I had some noise in my ears for the next 30 seconds so I'm satisfied.

3 feet away.. your NUTS!

great write up....mine are in the mail and i am anxiously awaiting for them to arrive. I am a wiring noob but after reading all of this thread i'm feeling pretty confident. thanks again and great stuff cvd!