OK....did a 3 point earthing last weekend:

1 from negative terminal to driver strut tower

1 from negative terminal to driver's side intake manifold

1 from passenger side intake manifold to passenger strut tower


i notice no difference what-so-ever.

do i have to do 5-point or more for a noticable difference?

here in the USA we call it Grounding :D

But 'earthing' sounds so much more mysterious. The word alone adds horsepower. :)

-jb

So it doesn't idle better or anything. hmmm.
Just for fun I'll try this to my RS and see what happens. It cost me $0 cause I have extra wire.

what awg of wire did you use? Maybe it didn't draw enough. 5 is standard i believe. 7 is also popular.

Perhaps your expecting too much...

I have a very sensative a$$, so I can usually notice little things and changes.. which I did...

But the true test was when my wife and I went out to dinner and, not having mentioned anything beforehand, she asked me if something was different..

I asked her why she'd say that.


She said, because it just feels smoother, like it's working less.

:D

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Where in hell thid this pop up?

Does it really do a difference?

sounds like the "snake oil bottle" to me!

Leo

i posted about this a while ago. The whole theory is that by directly grounding the body to the engine and the chassis you effectively reduce electrical interference to the ECU thus producing better results. The argument is "look how many grounds are already there" but... you can't have enough grounds.

Well I won't speak for others experiances Leo... but I noticed a good difference in regards to part throttle and mid range smoothness right away.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

jorge, which wire did you end up using?

heheheHAHAH

Yeah, I have another mod even cheaper and more noticable. Put a dab of vasoline petroleum jelly on the center of your rear liscense plate. This does 2 things:
makes it much harder for cops to get a good radar reflection to see your speed, and also draws air from behind you to help push for better gas mileage and acceleration.

I tried the alien mod once, where you throw an alien in the back seat to help the car's cornering. It was great, but he was really pi$$ed and it almost resulted in a global incident.

For real though guys, I'm not going to 100% doubt this helps cause I'm a very open minded person. I just don't think a 2002 model performance car would come from the factory with poor grounding and resulting in ECU interference. Of all the design and tests and $ spent, grounding is always an over kill cause it's cheap and easy. Just probe the engine block to the chassis reading voltage and rev the car, if you're getting any voltage maybe it does need another ground. This been done? Maybe poor design on where it's grounded? Close to a sensor it's having an effect on? Jorge, maybe with all the work you're done on your car, removing bolts and brackets you ending up hurting the factory grounding.

There's hundreds of people that will swear the tornado air intake spiral thing adds power. I even got one to try it out years ago (over 4 years ago). I'll just say, it was dyno proven to hurt power if anything. Others showed the same results even after they noted it feeling like it had more response and power.....

http://i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113196

Good luck!! :D

its not that its poor, it just doesn't eliminate all interference. Just like the Factory exhaust doesn't relieve all backpressure. Thats why you upgrade the exhaust. Just like your car comes from the factory with xx.xx degrees of toe and camber. It's not perfect, you can change the camber by getting a performance alignment and changing the spec. every little bit helps right.

so will this keep me from getting shocked every freakin' time i get out of my car? :D

Originally posted by Altered BeasT
heheheHAHAH

Yeah, I have another mod even cheaper and more noticable. Put a dab of vasoline petroleum jelly on the center of your rear liscense plate. This does 2 things:
makes it much harder for cops to get a good radar reflection to see your speed, and also draws air from behind you to help push for better gas mileage and acceleration.

I tried the alien mod once, where you throw an alien in the back seat to help the car's cornering. It was great, but he was really pi$$ed and it almost resulted in a global incident.

Sarcasm is not appreciated by me.


For real though guys, I'm not going to 100% doubt this helps cause I'm a very open minded person. I just don't think a 2002 model performance car would come from the factory with poor grounding and resulting in ECU interference. Of all the design and tests and $ spent, grounding is always an over kill cause it's cheap and easy. Just probe the engine block to the chassis reading voltage and rev the car, if you're getting any voltage maybe it does need another ground. This been done? Maybe poor design on where it's grounded? Close to a sensor it's having an effect on? Jorge, maybe with all the work you're done on your car, removing bolts and brackets you ending up hurting the factory grounding.


you think it's cheap? Imagine building 20k + cars, the cost adds up so just the bare minimum can keep over all costs down. I'm sure they skimped on the grounding as with all manufacturers.



There's hundreds of people that will swear the tornado air intake spiral thing adds power. I even got one to try it out years ago (over 4 years ago). I'll just say, it was dyno proven to hurt power if anything. Others showed the same results even after they noted it feeling like it had more response and power.....
No argument there, it's snake oil.

Originally posted by mitch808
you think it's cheap? Imagine building 20k + cars, the cost adds up so just the bare minimum can keep over all costs down. I'm sure they skimped on the grounding as with all manufacturers.

Yes, I think it's cheap. To add a couple more ground cables to the WRX at the factory would take nil time in R&D and at most $3 a car for parts. For 20K cars, that's $60,000 in parts and R&D would probably be nothing because they already spent the $ on R&D to design it in the 1st place with I guarantee plenty of data to make a case if it was an issue. They could have saved much more $ on eliminating a couple of not needed clips, not to mention that sun visor above the rear view mirror. I really doubt they skimped on it. Like I said though, I'm open minded about it, I just like to look at it as a whole, that way I'm not fooled by a suger pill. That kit that anotherB4 linked to looks like a chance to make money once you've convinced people.

Sarcasm is not appreciated by me.

waaa, next please.

I'd scream bloody murder too, but only if I saw a vendor or something selling a kit touting big increases. The truth of the matter is it's free, so there really isn't any loss in trying it out. Works, than fine, doesn't work, no loss.

-jb

exactly :/



Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

i used 4 gauge wire

if i wanted to add 2 more leads...where would they come from and go to?

thanks.

:(:(:(Where did that come from??? :confused:

Did you - ALtered BeasT - actually read the thread?

High end audio shops have been grounding/earthing stuff for ages, and in this case it is not being sold as one of those megapower upgrades. The pics were posted by others - not by myself anyway... :rolleyes:

Sorry if you aren't interested...and have nothing to offer the discussion by way of constructive input...

Peace y'all.

<sits back, enjoying snake oil, warm and cozy in flame suit :D >

Originally posted by anotherB4
:(:(:(Where did that come from??? :confused:

Did you - ALtered BeasT - actually read the thread?

High end audio shops have been grounding/earthing stuff for ages, and in this case it is not being sold as one of those megapower upgrades. The pics were posted by others - not by myself anyway... :rolleyes:

Sorry if you aren't interested...and have nothing to offer the discussion by way of constructive input...

Peace y'all.

<sits back, enjoying snake oil, warm and cozy in flame suit :D >

All I said was the kit in the pic you linked looks like a CHANCE to make $. Someone builds up hype and puts together a $1 kit to make a few hundred. Had nothing to do with you, or anything written in the post, I commented on the looks of the kit in the pic.
I know about high end stereo shops. I worked for Warehouse Electronics in Yuma, AZ for years installing while I was collecting college credits and was playing Marine ;) I didn't just throw grounds on brand new cars coming in, or even consider it. I did have to ground older cars due to problems with existing factory ones.
I never said I wasn't interested, I said I was open minded about it. I'm not one to jump on everything like this though. I'm pretty sure it would do nothing for me, but I'm welcoming someone to prove me wrong. Yeah, what would it hurt to do it anyways? Well, what does it hurt to walk around a ladder to avoid bad luck? Not much effort, but I'll walk right under it because I'm not easily influenced by what someone says =)
How could it be proved, well, someone would have to measure voltage from the chassis to the block. Also monitor the sensors before and after for a difference. It's all good, but this would be almost more fitting under the rumor forum. Just a newbie though.

I think the common thread running through here is not to go buy anything, instead, find someone with some scrap cable, maybe get a nice set of bling bling battery terminals and try it. Don't spend more than 15 bucks.

-jb

So - has anyone done a before and after voltage reading??

Happy Motoring!

Originally posted by Altered BeasT

How could it be proved, well, someone would have to measure voltage from the chassis to the block. Also monitor the sensors before and after for a difference. It's all good, but this would be almost more fitting under the rumor forum. Just a newbie though.

Hello newbie.

Somebody has measured it out, over several different cars. There was a difference. In fact, Subaru believed it warranted fixing - if you look at a D revision B4 vs. a A, B, and C revision B4 legacy, the grounding wires on the intake manifold were increased in size by 300%. And one of the first Subaru STI WRX's (current model) had a hand-made, beefier grounding system put in by STI - we found this out when we checked it.

Now, of course this could be an attempt to sell you wiring with connectors - I mean, 3 separate pro tuning shops now sell wiring kits - but for some reason, we posted information on how to do it yourself for $15, and pointed out that there was no reason that there would be any difference between a DIY and a "pro" job other than bragging rights to say you burnt through your cash to do it. There must be something sneakier going on, though. The Truth Is Out There.

But, I think you just read the message and spit something out without checking in to it, to be honest. Good luck on your posting, but don't be surprised if people here don't take you very seriously for a while.

Paul Hansen

Originally posted by shirokuma


Hello newbie.

Somebody has measured it out, over several different cars. There was a difference. In fact, Subaru believed it warranted fixing - if you look at a D revision B4 vs. a A, B, and C revision B4 legacy, the grounding wires on the intake manifold were increased in size by 300%. And one of the first Subaru STI WRX's (current model) had a hand-made, beefier grounding system put in by STI - we found this out when we checked it.

Now, of course this could be an attempt to sell you wiring with connectors - I mean, 3 separate pro tuning shops now sell wiring kits - but for some reason, we posted information on how to do it yourself for $15, and pointed out that there was no reason that there would be any difference between a DIY and a "pro" job other than bragging rights to say you burnt through your cash to do it. There must be something sneakier going on, though. The Truth Is Out There.

But, I think you just read the message and spit something out without checking in to it, to be honest. Good luck on your posting, but don't be surprised if people here don't take you very seriously for a while.

Paul Hansen
Paul, believe it or not, I'm not here to find a friend. I have a seperate life. I'm here in the Subaru tech forum for just that. If people don't take me seriously for awhile, it won't hurt anything I'm trying to get from or give to this forum. I've been here 2 months and haven't been in people's way with dumb questions, in fact, I've answered plenty from what I've learned hands on. Enough to get emails with questions I really don't have time for. I read up while at work because I'm interested in the information.
Anyways.... as you said, this was found. Where/when was this found? Was it on the US models? Considering the WRX JUST came to the US and you said "Subaru believed it warranted fixing" But this was on "one of the first Subaru STI WRX's" why would they leave it as is to import to the US WRX when they had to make various other changes before it was legal to be on the road? I was lookig at it from the US point because that's where I'm currently at.

Is there something so wrong with challenging a mod such as this from my point of view? Yes, the truth is out there, unfortunatly most don't really look for it hard enough. It's just a ground, and I just commented on it and questioned it, didn't spit on anything or loose a friend. I joked about it, but said I was open minded to it being a doubtful possibility.

hah, i just hooked up 3 pnts on my legacy today and it definately made a difference. how do i know? well for one my stereo system has alot less engine noise in it(that's how i definately know it made some difference) and it just runs alot better. trust me, it's not placebo effect either. i did this just for shiznits and giggles and only did 3 points! for anyone that cares i used 6 guage wire. just an fyi :rolleyes:

All I have to say is all you i-clubers that a afraid of cheap mods that sound wack.

Don't knock it untill you try it.

Also realize this is not a power mod. I did not notice a diffrence in power but I found a huge diffrence in the smoothness of the enging at 4000+ RPMs. I wish I did this mod sooner. Also I don't understand why SOA hasn't upgraded their grounds with such a diffrence there is.

I purchased a 4 guage amp kit from Best Buy for $20 (employee discount)
I also purchased four 4 guage ring terminals and 7ft. 1/2 in. split wire loom from Home Depot for $10.

Took about an hour to install.

Before attaching the cables if you want a more stealthy install wrapthe wire with black split loom and if you haven't seen the engine bay stock you wouldn't notice the difference.

1st run was very short from the battery (negative terminal) to the body. I removed the bolt that holds the original wire from the battery to the body and I added the 4 guage wire to it. I left the stock wire there and even wire tied the new wire to it.

2nd run was from the battery to the right side (looking from the front) of the intake manafold. Another short run. attach a ring terminal to the end of the wire then cut the front so you don't have to take the bolt out all the way. (it's a 81TCH to get back in it you take it out). The bolt already has two thin wires grounded to it. Attach the 4 guage and run it back to the battery.

3rd run was from the battery to the left side of the intake manafold (give some extra length so it can go around the front of the battery). There's only one wire already grounded to this one. The wire will run directly across the motor to the battery. Make sure you wire tie it up so it don't melt on any hot components.

Next inorder to get all the wires on the negative terminal. You will need to put the short run from the body on the bolt side. Then the other two on the nut side. The two wires will have to be set up so one attaches from the back and one attaches from the front.

Thats it.

This is how I did my car and I noticed a huge diffrence in the smoothness of the engine. Before I was always shifting early because the car vibrated so much at high RPMs (4000 and up). Now the car feels like it is running at 3000 RPMs when it's at 5000. I have also had more than one person notice the diffrence with out knowing of the mod. Also My car is completly stock other than the GFB Blow off valve.

I didn't just throw grounds on brand new cars coming in, or even consider it.

...poor customers...

waaa,

...yep, early in the development process...

I'm pretty sure it would do nothing for me, but I'm welcoming someone to prove me wrong. Yeah, what would it hurt to do it anyways? Well, what does it hurt to walk around a ladder to avoid bad luck? Not much effort, but I'll walk right under it because I'm not easily influenced by what someone says =)

Kewl - nothin said really - just trying to help as someone who has actually DONE it...and coz it is an incremental thing (no power claims remember?), I don't suggest you do it (you won't anyway because you are not influenced by what other people say or do).

...nuff said.

<kicks back in cozy flame suit, sipping snake oil ;) >

...yep, early in the development process...
Thanks we're getting far with this. The post was started by someone who did it and said it did nothing. Others posted that did it and say it does something. I joked about it and showed my doubt. I offended people and learned I'm early in my development process (from someone on the internet!). My co-workers got a kick out of it. We never reached a conclusion if Subaru's new US WRX still has an issue with grounding but jakester made a good straight forward post on it. I don't notice my WRX being rough, but if I run into some time and have the cables lying around I would maybe try it out.

EDIT: the part where I wrote "(from someone on the internet!)" co-workers thought that appropriate. :D

Originally posted by Altered BeasT
Is there something so wrong with challenging a mod such as this from my point of view? Yes, the truth is out there, unfortunatly most don't really look for it hard enough. It's just a ground, and I just commented on it and questioned it, didn't spit on anything or loose a friend. I joked about it, but said I was open minded to it being a doubtful possibility.

It's all good, but this would be almost more fitting under the rumor forum.

heheheHAHAH

Yeah, I have another mod even cheaper and more noticable. Put a dab of vasoline petroleum jelly on the center of your rear liscense plate. This does 2 things:
makes it much harder for cops to get a good radar reflection to see your speed, and also draws air from behind you to help push for better gas mileage and acceleration.

I tried the alien mod once, where you throw an alien in the back seat to help the car's cornering. It was great, but he was really pi$$ed and it almost resulted in a global incident.

That kit that anotherB4 linked to looks like a chance to make money once you've convinced people.


Being open minded would mean looking at both sides, as opposed to posting mostly negative statements, would it not?

And the original DIY and earthing was posted last January - if it was a making money venture, surely it's failed if it hasn't taken off by now - or even advertised as such.

What I was trying to point out with the STI Rex is that even Subaru acknowledges a fault, and believe it or not, not every member on this board has a brand new WRX. And I'm glad you get emails after being here for 2 months - the fact that I've owned factory turbo'ed Subaru's for 3 years now in unimportant before your vast knowledge. :rolleyes:

Maybe you don't mean to come off as you seem when you post, but if so, I'd suggest a revamp of your writing style.

Paul Hansen

Just like a post before the 2002 WRX does not have Grounding issues it just runs better if you upgrade it. Just like alot of the other part of the car they are good and work but if you upgrade it they work better.

I don't understand your problem it's not like we are telling you to rip off your head lights or spent $5000 on an upgrade.

like I said before try it and you'll see. It can be pieced together for next to nothing. if you try you may be able to spend $50 but it can be done for under $20. No one here wants to sell you a kit for it so were not blowing smoke up your a$$ to make a buck.

If you stop complaning and just do it. you will see the earth is not flat. the concept is not that far out there I think your just to lazy to do it.

I wonder if it was this hard to get people to do the resonator removal mod.

After you do the mod I expect an apology to all the I-Club members that had to read your whining without you trying it.

After you do the mod I expect an apology to all the I-Club members that had tothat had to read your whining without you trying it.
heheh If I ever did it and noticed a differnce I'd say so if the question ever came up if it helps. Apology for leaning on one side of a technical debate heheh NO.
As for questioning it before trying it, I'm guilty, but couldn't fry any harder than I already have right? You cyber meanies.

I posted be for seeing you edited post up above.

I'm not trying to bash you all I want is to spark so motivation in you to try it.
because you are leaning so strongly to the negative before trying it.

once you do try it you will understand what we are saying. then if you put all the effort that you are into disbeliving it. into beliving it, and showing other I-Clubers they all will do it.

with all the time you spent on here questioning if it works and wanting solid proof you could have already done it. and had solid proof in the drive way.

this mod can also be undone with no purchase of anything to replace something you had to modify. all you have to do is lossen some bolts and take out some wires.

as to the car running rough it Isn't like driving down a brick road rough. but there is a difference between before and after.

oh well as in the the Matrix "I can only show you the door you have to walk through it".

now... I haven't measured this on my subaru, but, I measured the spark waveform with a nice O-scope and a high voltage probe from a coil-on-plug ignition type on another car (sorry don't want to say) and the wave form for spark voltage was almost identical before and after I added some "earthing" :)

I added one 6 gauge wire from the alternator housing and one from each head. It seemed like the engine was smoother in the mid-range I will give you that, but I couldn't measure any difference in the actual spark waveform i.e. faster voltage drop or increase causing a more defined spark or from the coil signal from ecu...

I guess take that for what it's worth, my idea was that the reason for smoothness increase was a cleaner ignition event.