Actually, I love these tires. I'm using the 215/45/17 and they are lighter than the stock RE92s with much better grip. I love em for daily driving, and they've so far done fine in my amateur autox'ing. Perfect balanced jack of all trades tire.

Some observations though:

Now that I have 8000 miles on them, the sidewalls seem to be softer than before. I mean, I know everything breaks in a bit, but they seem to have changed significantly... and yeah I'm at the same PSI.

I was testing my car a bit in a humongous empty parking lot and after just a few short stints (~30 seconds), I could start to smell the burning tire smell you get when you just finished an autox run. Is this just the nature of the tire or a bad sign?

Would these tires last a track day?

I was testing my car a bit in a humongous empty parking lot and after just a few short stints (~30 seconds), I could start to smell the burning tire smell you get when you just finished an autox run.
What burning tire smell when you just finished an auto-x run? :huh: That's not normal (or you have an extraordinarily sensitive nose!).

Is this just the nature of the tire or a bad sign?
Yes, it's a bad sign, but the sign is not pointing to the tire. It's pointing the nut behind the wheel that is over-driving the car. :)

Would these tires last a track day?
If driven properly, any tires will last through a track day. I've done a track weekend in a WRX on RE92s without any issues. I've also done a track weekend in the same WRX on Toyo T1-Ss, which (to me, at least) seemed very similar to the F1GS-D3s (both of them are kind of "soft" UHP summer tire).

But if you're over-driving them to the point that they start to smell like they're burning in only 30sec, then no, they're not going to last a track weekend.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

Oh uh. I thought the smell was normal.

When I was testing yesterday, I was turning to the point that the tires were just barely starting to make the screeching sound, but not slipping. I thought this was the proper "edge of traction". So I should back off even more than this?

Hmmm... do brake pads smell? (although, I'm pretty sure it's the tire)

Yes they smell, I bet it was your brakes.

Yes they smell, I bet it was your brakes.

I'm on stock pads.

Now that I think of it, I dunno if it was tire or brake. When I smelled it, I leaned over to the wheel and smelled; confirming it was from there... but both brakes and tires are right there; so I'm not sure which one it was.

I need to go back to that lot and not use the brakes during testing to see.

I recognize the smell from autox as it's there after each run. Hmmm... now that I think about it, it sorta smells like the cable cars in San Francisco when they brake down the hill (they use wood plank brakes). And the stock brakes are organic (contain wood pulp?)

When I was testing yesterday, I was turning to the point that the tires were just barely starting to make the screeching sound, but not slipping. I thought this was the proper "edge of traction". So I should back off even more than this?

Is this correct or wrong?

I have the F1's. I have also "smoked" the stock brakes with the F1's on. 7th Straight to curve transition. But I also had brake fade at that point. The tires were fine. Too bad I didn't have my IR thermometer at that time. I could have documented something.

Is this correct or wrong?
Your description sounds right, but it's tough to tell based on a written description. If you crank in too much steering you can get the tires to scrub and the car to understeer without hearing much from the tires.

Pat

Hmmm... I've been training myself to try not to overshoot the set while establishing it in turn in. Once in turn, I apply throttle until the weight shifts back far enough to feel as if I am balancing the traction edge of both outside tires and hold this (balancing the throttle) throughout the midcorner. Once the steering can start to be unwound, I add more throttle as I unwind until full can be applied to exit the turn.

This stuff all requires I choose a line this is appropriate for this. IE, a sharper turn in can be had (and a later apex) if I've precompressed the springs with (straight) braking (and rolling into trailbraking as appropriate).

I kind of think of it like a Q value (I'm an EE). Gotta pick the one that gets you to the "set" as quickly as possible without overshooting. (Overshoots which either causes oscillations, or if it passes the edge of traction and results in sliding.)
http://i16.tinypic.com/2el58xi.gif

If you crank in too much steering you can get the tires to scrub and the car to understeer without hearing much from the tires.

Is this because the wheel is cranked passed the scrub angle and the front is in full slide?

When I was testing yesterday, I was turning to the point that the tires were just barely starting to make the screeching sound, but not slipping. I thought this was the proper "edge of traction". So I should back off even more than this?

Hmmm... do brake pads smell? (although, I'm pretty sure it's the tire)

A singing tire is a happy tire. When they scream, you're over driving them. That's for street tires. R compounds take their punishment like men.

I always get a burning smell after an AutoX run... and this was even during the runs that I thought were more disciplined, ie I thought I did a good job not overdriving...

chim, your description of how you approach/hold traction throughout the turn sounds good to me... I've heard some screech is good, but squall is bad.

Chim, were you left-foot braking to enhance weight transfer? This will often result in warmer brakes than right-foot breaking. Another autoX smell that some are more prone to generate: that of a slipping clutch during launch. (I don't like this smell.)

Not in this case.... I still really suck at left foot braking. During the test I was going from a roll.

It probably was the brakes... I was trying to compress the springs hard to match the set. I got the feeling that reduced anti dive (like from the ALKs) would help this.

You don't happen to have the Thai production GSD3s do you? They are supposedly markedly inferior to the German production, overheat and get greasy very quickly.

You don't happen to have the Thai production GSD3s do you? They are supposedly markedly inferior to the German production, overheat and get greasy very quickly.

I dunno. Got em from TireRack

I dunno. Got em from TireRack

Should say on them some place