I would like to thank Chris at XXTuning for his great tune and friendly attitude. I was tuned by Tony of XX before and made 293whp/324wtq @ 18lbs. This time Chris turned over 302whp/350wtq @19.8lbs. I'm pleased with the results, but I know there is still more power to be made. I might be changing my exhaust soon because it seems like it is a little bit restrictive. On to the mods/graphs...

2006 Subaru STi

Stock VF39
UR ewg uppipe
HKS downpipe
Tial 38mm VTA
Greddy Sp2 catback
Greddy Profec B Spec 2 ebc
Walbro FP
Cobb AP v1.0

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/toosoon/Dyno.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/toosoon/Dyno001.jpg

I would like to say thank you again to Chris and XX for their never lacking ability to make the customer happy! I love the A/F that I left with, makes me happy.

Future Mods:

Invidia n1
APS CAI
TMIC or FMIC

G200? Chris I knew you'd give in to it. ;) Invidia N1 for me soon.

that sucker is going to be really loud, G200 will do it for me :D

Excelent Job Chris!!

Car must feel great..

Excelent Job Chris!!

Car must feel great..

he did do a great job, the torque comes in strong and puts a smile on my face :)

baseline of al's 'dangerous' tune??? or logs? if not the claim is kind of useless going from dyno to dyno

Trust me, I do have the logs, but I don't want to turn this into a bash fest like the other threads.

I thought this car was previously tuned by Tony? OP, why go from Tony to Al back to a different XX tuner?

I thought this car was previously tuned by Tony? OP, why go from Tony to Al back to a different XX tuner?

The story goes something like this.

Chris was originally tuned by Tony, tune was based around 18psi, car was fairly conservative. Here is the link to his post: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1091794

Chris wanted a little more out of the tune, but wasn't ready to dish out the money for another protune. He went to a shop that was closer to him, and gave him a free tune.. Here is the post on that: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1146121

After driving the car for a few weeks, he could tell the car just wasn't responding like it should. He came to us, the car (with an ecu reset) baselined at 281/310 with the previous tune. I went into complete detail with him on what was wrong with the car, and how we could improve the car back to where it should be. He left with the tune above.

Interesting, he sure seemed happy with Al's tune...

Interesting, he sure seemed happy with Al's tune...
I sure thought so too , when he left thats all he could talk about , but again **** like this happens all the time , i guess he got an offer he could'nt refuse , i don't now how much better then a free dyno and tune , but apparently it was , and if he had an issue i am sure that if he had called and mentioned it to Al he would have been more then Happy to check it over for him , but what do i know anyway ?

When we base line a Subaru that was previously tuned, we put it on the dyno and pull it as it came off the street

We do not reset the battery as that negates the "learning" of the ecu and in many cases lowers the power from how the car was driving on the road

In fact when we are tuning a car we must take steps to "advance" the advance mutiplier so that we can have a meaningful dyno reading

When we tuned the car in question, we spent a lot of time tuning it very carefully on the dyno and then we went out on the road and re-adjusted the boost, fuel and timing maps to optimize the car on the ROAD - which is where the customer drives the car.

I have all the data logs of the road testing and adjustment and the car was functioning perfectly ON THE ROAD

I guess what I am saying is that I put a lot more faith in how the car is running ON A ROAD than on that taking the wheels off the car Dyno Pak that XX uses with who knows what settings

If the customer had concerns or issues with his tune he was certainly most welcome to return and bring them to our attention - however, it seems that he prerefred to return to XX which is fine.

I conclude by saying that I bent over backwards to give this guy as good a tune as was humanly possible becuase he works in a local Subaru dealership. We did not charge him as a professional courtesy. We also diagnosed and did a compression test for free for his friend whos "street tuned' engine was running on 2 cylinders. All at no charge.

I would have not expected any less than XX telling the customer my tune is "dangerous"

pissing over numbers is dumb...pissing over trap speeds is a little less dumb

......

Damn look at that boost onset, target pressure by 3k rpm with only 1k of spool :eek:

Nothing like instant power….nice… :D

When we base line a Subaru that was previously tuned, we put it on the dyno and pull it as it came off the street

We do not reset the battery as that negates the "learning" of the ecu and in many cases lowers the power from how the car was driving on the road

In fact when we are tuning a car we must take steps to "advance" the advance mutiplier so that we can have a meaningful dyno reading

When we tuned the car in question, we spent a lot of time tuning it very carefully on the dyno and then we went out on the road and re-adjusted the boost, fuel and timing maps to optimize the car on the ROAD - which is where the customer drives the car.

I have all the data logs of the road testing and adjustment and the car was functioning perfectly ON THE ROAD

I guess what I am saying is that I put a lot more faith in how the car is running ON A ROAD than on that taking the wheels off the car Dyno Pak that XX uses with who knows what settings

If the customer had concerns or issues with his tune he was certainly most welcome to return and bring them to our attention - however, it seems that he prerefred to return to XX which is fine.

I conclude by saying that I bent over backwards to give this guy as good a tune as was humanly possible becuase he works in a local Subaru dealership. We did not charge him as a professional courtesy. We also diagnosed and did a compression test for free for his friend whos "street tuned' engine was running on 2 cylinders. All at no charge.

I would have not expected any less than XX telling the customer my tune is "dangerous"


Al, Would you like me to post the data log?

Why did I reset the ECU? Because the customer flashed OUR realtime map over your base map because the car was running like crap. Chris wanted to see where the car was with your tune, so I reset the ecu putting back to your base map. Resetting the ECU gives the car a clean slate AL, taking out all learned knock correction in the KL tables.. THIS SHOULD HAVE HELPED YOU. Once I reset the ECU, I did you the courtesy of bringing the Mulitplier up to 1 as I would hope you would do with any ECU reset. Again, I have the log that proves this. Honestly, I should have aborted the dyno run because the timing curve was so horrid.

Providing a tune for free doesn't make you a better tuner Al, honestly, it shows desperation. You spent 6 hours on Chris' car, just so he could come back and put down less power then he originally left with. HE knew something was wrong with the car, I didn't feed anything into his head. I walked him through the entire process, showing him why his car wasn't safe, then proceeded to back my findings up with COBB (which I have the email if you wish me to post that too).

Once the car was done, we road tuned it (just like any other car we tune). Chris was happy, and I was happy with the results. He left with a couple suggestions that I gave him, and he went on his way. That's what made the difference.

- Chris

nice power

Al, Would you like me to post the data log?

Why did I reset the ECU? Because the customer flashed OUR realtime map over your base map because the car was running like crap. Chris wanted to see where the car was with your tune, so I reset the ecu putting back to your base map. Resetting the ECU gives the car a clean slate AL, taking out all learned knock correction in the KL tables.. THIS SHOULD HAVE HELPED YOU. Once I reset the ECU, I did you the courtesy of bringing the Mulitplier up to 1 as I would hope you would do with any ECU reset. Again, I have the log that proves this. Honestly, I should have aborted the dyno run because the timing curve was so horrid.

Providing a tune for free doesn't make you a better tuner Al, honestly, it shows desperation. You spent 6 hours on Chris' car, just so he could come back and put down less power then he originally left with. HE knew something was wrong with the car, I didn't feed anything into his head. I walked him through the entire process, showing him why his car wasn't safe, then proceeded to back my findings up with COBB (which I have the email if you wish me to post that too).

Once the car was done, we road tuned it (just like any other car we tune). Chris was happy, and I was happy with the results. He left with a couple suggestions that I gave him, and he went on his way. That's what made the difference.

- Chris

I have my logs also

There was nothing wrong with the car when it left our hands and it was carefully driven on the road and dyno to confirm.

I dont know what you did with that strange dyno of yours to obtain what ever logs you have but somehow I feel your intention is to bad mouth my work. Which of course should come as no suprize.

I am glad the customer is pleased and that is the main issue.

I feel your intention is to bad mouth my work. Which of course should come as no suprize.

Surprise. . .:D

Suprise. . .:D


Surprise...:p

Surprise...:p


But Bro... LOL. . .

looks great chris.

dave

what does a stock sti dyno at on this dyno????

what does a stock sti dyno at on this dyno????

My 04 STI made 248WHP and 252WTQ using 93 octane fuel on XX's Dynapack. This pull was done around christmas time so the temps were down.

From another thread..

Change your HKS Downpipe..Thats the worst Downpipe...Go with the Invidia ver2....;)

Change your HKS Downpipe..Thats the worst Downpipe...Go with the Invidia ver2....;)

he has an ewg, its ok...

Surprise. . .:D
Jr. you can teach me spelling and I will teach you driving :D

(Al At The Shop's cpu - tuning some of us actually have to work for a living and dont have time to be gossiping like a bunch of school girls all day )

Jr. you can teach me spelling and I will teach you driving :D

(Al At The Shop's cpu - tuning some of us actually have to work for a living and dont have time to be gossiping like a bunch of school girls all day )

Some of us have wireless :) :disco:

Jr. you can teach me spelling and I will teach you driving :D

(Al At The Shop's cpu - tuning some of us actually have to work for a living and dont have time to be gossiping like a bunch of school girls all day )

But BRO , tell you what AL .. I will get my black supra all together, I will put the same tire combo that was on my white car and let you make a pass bro .... since you seem to think that a 800rwhp supra is like driving your AWD EVO bro ... When you smash it up I will come pick up your EVO bro .. Dont be mistaken bro.. Have you ever driven a HIGH RWHP car bro ? Nothing like driving your SAFE STREET TIRE EVO bro ..

Im tuning too BTW.. on the dyno with a nice Turbo/Cams 350z

Love ya Buddy..

As the days of our lives turn.... :D

I think its time to post the whatever logs you each have ;)

-- Ed

But BRO , tell you what AL .. I will get my black supra all together, I will put the same tire combo that was on my white car and let you make a pass bro .... since you seem to think that a 800rwhp supra is like driving your AWD EVO bro ... When you smash it up I will come pick up your EVO bro .. Dont be mistaken bro.. Have you ever driven a HIGH RWHP car bro ? Nothing like driving your SAFE STREET TIRE EVO bro ..

Im tuning too BTW.. on the dyno with a nice Turbo/Cams 350z

Love ya Buddy..
Jr.

Drving a drag race is not the WRC

As John Force would have said The key to Drag Racing is simple "Drive Straight"

The truth be known - I have no interest in RWD cars

I drive an AWD Evo (9.7 @ 149) and a AWD STI 2005 - (time unknown)

Meanwhile, you drive a Supra and a Viper GTS

If either your Supra or Viper can ever get into the 9's maybe then we can have a race but till them its all just small talk and conjecture on your part

My Pal Sean Ivey had his Supra goig 9.6 withi a few months of buying it and without any long winded explanations or excuses

See you at the Subway Bro

As the days of our lives turn.... :D

I think its time to post the whatever logs you each have ;)

-- EdNo need to look at logs - just look at the dyno sheet posted above

The TQ peak is a 100 rpms spike

The WHP falls down almost 40 whp from peak power in the mid range to the end of the power band

If that is an example of a "good tune" then I need to start chagring more for what I do

As the days of our lives turn.... :D

I think its time to post the whatever logs you each have ;)

-- Ed

I agree. I think Chris and Al should both send their logs to you or Junior just so they can be posted up at the exact same time. Then all the other tuners can give their own evaluation. For all we know all the tunes given to this car could be/have been problematic.

I have logs...

I have logs...

Here is my yule LOG which I intend to eat over the holiday

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Yulelog.jpg/180px-Yulelog.jpg

Here is my yule LOG which I intend to eat over the holiday

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Yulelog.jpg/180px-Yulelog.jpg


Merry Christmas Everyone and Happy New Year

Lets all just try to get get along, its the holidays!

What ever you celebrate - have a great one and enjoy your Subarus !

No need to look at logs - just look at the dyno sheet posted above

The TQ peak is a 100 rpms spike

The WHP falls down almost 40 whp from peak power in the mid range to the end of the power band
Actually, if I scaled the graph properly so that it would read like your graph (500hp Peaks for hp and tq) then the sheet would look like this:

http://www.xxtuning.com/customer/chrisewg.jpg

AMAZING how much better it looks, hey?

If that is an example of a "good tune" then I need to start chagring more for what I do

How about you start charging something at all?

To the death, huh Al? Let me know when you want to end this silly argument. :banana:

Chris - the power still drops from a peak of just over 300 to down about 265 or so - a loss of 40 whp give or take. No matter is you scale it as wide as the grand canyon the power is still falling.

The ramp up is totally un natural and if you ask me not very representative of what you you expect to see in a real world driving condition - OH but yeah there are no wheels or tires on the car are there ?

How do they go about making a dyno with no wheels or tires load accurately to the real load with the wheels - OH - I forgot they approximate the effect of wind and wheels by settings such as settle time - ramp up rate and load, etc. And of course we have no idea of just how you set those parameters which means your dyno sheet is useless expect as packing material.

Also - it still have a nice divit in the 5700 rpms area for about 500 rpms where its prob down a bit of timing there.

Not my concept of a "smooth one bro" as I like to say. But to each his own.

Have a beer and relax!

Chris - the power still drops from a peak of just over 300 to down about 265 or so - a loss of 40 whp give or take. No matter is you scale it as wide as the grand canyon the power is still falling.

LOL.. That's cause I tune the car to redline!! :D

Also - it still have a nice divit in the 5700 rpms area for about 500 rpms where its prob down a bit of timing there.

Yea yea, small divet, I know.. What can I say, I'm not "pefect", but I do know who's tune is better ;)

Not my concept of a "smooth one bro" as I like to say. But to each his own.

Have a beer and relax!

Listen Bro, I'm having fun with this.. Actually, we all are. Beer sounds good, on you?

Chris - the power still drops from a peak of just over 300 to down about 265 or so - a loss of 40 whp give or take. No matter is you scale it as wide as the grand canyon the power is still falling.

The ramp up is totally un natural and if you ask me not very representative of what you you expect to see in a real world driving condition - OH but yeah there are no wheels or tires on the car are there ?

How do they go about making a dyno with no wheels or tires load accurately to the real load with the wheels - OH - I forgot they approximate the effect of wind and wheels by settings such as settle time - ramp up rate and load, etc. And of course we have no idea of just how you set those parameters which means your dyno sheet is useless expect as packing material.

Also - it still have a nice divit in the 5700 rpms area for about 500 rpms where its prob down a bit of timing there.

Not my concept of a "smooth one bro" as I like to say. But to each his own.

Have a beer and relax!

A word of advise, relax and proof read your posts. My post can be bad, but yours are like reading what a 5th grader has typed.

Aren't you the one that always states that a dyno is just a tuning tool, I think I remember reading that in most of your posts where people ask about high numbers. If a dyno is just a tool who cares how it works as long as the same dyno is used to make comparisons. I hate these my dyno is better pissing contests. The Dynapack is a good tuning tool and so is the Dynodynamics. They both can be calibrated to inflate the numbers of any car put on them.

So it all comes down to the guy at the computer controls of the dyno. Do you trust that he is giving you the real numbers or adding some fudge to make you happy. I know that I trust the numbers that I got on XX's dyno. Lets wait until next year and see what the trap speeds are for the cars in question.

LOL.. That's cause I tune the car to redline!! :D



Yea yea, small divet, I know.. What can I say, I'm not "pefect", but I do know who's tune is better ;)



Listen Bro, I'm having fun with this.. Actually, we all are. Beer sounds good, on you?
Yes I will stop by and buy you a beer next week !

A word of advise, relax and proof read your posts. My post can be bad, but yours are like reading what a 5th grader has typed.

Aren't you the one that always states that a dyno is just a tuning tool, I think I remember reading that in most of your posts where people ask about high numbers. If a dyno is just a tool who cares how it works as long as the same dyno is used to make comparisons. I hate these my dyno is better pissing contests. The Dynapack is a good tuning tool and so is the Dynodynamics. They both can be calibrated to inflate the numbers of any car put on them.

So it all comes down to the guy at the computer controls of the dyno. Do you trust that he is giving you the real numbers or adding some fudge to make you happy. I know that I trust the numbers that I got on XX's dyno. Lets wait until next year and see what the trap speeds are for the cars in question.


Agreed - I am a waiting the opening of the track

Chris - the power still drops from a peak of just over 300 to down about 265 or so - a loss of 40 whp give or take. No matter is you scale it as wide as the grand canyon the power is still falling.

The ramp up is totally un natural and if you ask me not very representative of what you you expect to see in a real world driving condition - OH but yeah there are no wheels or tires on the car are there ?

How do they go about making a dyno with no wheels or tires load accurately to the real load with the wheels - OH - I forgot they approximate the effect of wind and wheels by settings such as settle time - ramp up rate and load, etc. And of course we have no idea of just how you set those parameters which means your dyno sheet is useless expect as packing material.

Also - it still have a nice divit in the 5700 rpms area for about 500 rpms where its prob down a bit of timing there.

Not my concept of a "smooth one bro" as I like to say. But to each his own.

Have a beer and relax!


HOLY EDIT POST!

Ok Al, I was asked nicely to "Drop it", so I'm going to.

Have a nice holiday, and I really do mean that, from the bottom of my dynapack loving heart.

- Chris

Agreed - I am a waiting the opening of the track

For the EVO or the STI? What track do you use mostly, Englishtown?

......

What happened here? I remember chlnOrSlpn? having something to say, where did it go?

Why erase what you posted?

vendor bashing is not allowed..

Then what has been going on for the past couple of weeks on multiple threads?

Go to the vendor review section and tell me that no one is bashing vendors.

Better yet start a Slowboy Racing thread and see what happens, I know you love SBR!

I found this here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1041198&page=3 post #64.
The most I ever got safely out of the POS SLOWBOY built me a long time ago was 350whp.. at 22psi.. Turbo Sucked then and will suck now..

Wow that kinda sounded like vendor bashing, but you didn't delete it, why?

If you didn't have to delete it why should chlnOrSlpn? have too?

Easy Tony, He's just stating why the post got deleted. Junior is one of the "good guys", lol, he's not even a moderator.

You have a PM.

I posted something about Al, we had a private chat and I found it best to delete it....I'm over it.

No, I'm the better tooner. This is my self-tuned stage 2 sti.
http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/1327/untitledav3.jpg
As I you can see, I'm making over 1000 horse and 1000wtq.
Thank you very much
Good bye

yo bish!

I'm calling you out!

You and your self tuned STi Stage 2 + !

What is it that you want to do, and when you do want to do this!

This is Visconti!

of ViscontiFlash!

I self tuned my STi + as well, and there is no Stage 2 + STi faster than mine!

No, I'm the better tooner. This is my self-tuned stage 2 sti.
http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/1327/untitledav3.jpg
As I you can see, I'm making over 1000 horse and 1000wtq.
Thank you very much
Good bye


roFL!

That's an awful tune... Your torque dropped like 300 ft/lbs by 7k...

:D

I still love my new wheels. Thanks.

bah... I got you all beat...

http://www.eqtuning.com/dynos/1millionhp.png

that's on pump gas yo! :D

That's an awful tune... Your torque dropped like 300 ft/lbs by 7k...

:D

I still love my new wheels. Thanks.
yea, but my hp holds all the way to redline, that's what counts. ;)
Glad you're still enjoying the rims. My car is screaming for the SSRs, now that I've gone wingless. But my wallet is enjoying the money:lol:

bah... I got you all beat...

that's on pump gas yo! :D
nah, that can't be real. I want to see trap speeds. nothing under 560mph.

bah... I got you all beat...


that's on pump gas yo! :D


Holy ****! :banana:

yo bish!

I'm calling you out!

You and your self tuned STi Stage 2 + !

What is it that you want to do, and when you do want to do this!

This is Visconti!

of ViscontiFlash!

I self tuned my STi + as well, and there is no Stage 2 + STi faster than mine!

VISCONTI FLASH - my nightmares are coming to fruition

The end is near:lol:

http://www.geeksquad.com/images/misc/UWI_homepage_agent.jpg

I posted something about Al, we had a private chat and I found it best to delete it....I'm over it.

Makes sense.

I had just noticed the post was deleted today. I couldn't remember what your comments were and couldn't understand why you deleted them.

I guess being a better man sometimes means you have to put your pride away and do the right thing. I know someone on this forum that could learn a lot from you.

You have my respect for doing what was right.

Makes sense.

I had just noticed the post was deleted today. I couldn't remember what your comments were and couldn't understand why you deleted them.

I guess being a better man sometimes means you have to put your pride away and do the right thing. I know someone on this forum that could learn a lot from you.

You have my respect for doing what was right.

Thanks,

Just trying to keep it civil here, you know? It's a community of our own if you will...but lately its been going in the wrong direction. I guess I added to that, but turned it back around in the right direction.

Wow, I'm glad tuner wars ended so I can ask the topic creator how his car feels. As my 06 TR has become my daily driver, I wish more and more that I just had a protuned Stg. 2 Sti.

How is the drivability? Powerband?

I'm putting a EWG VF39 on my 06 so it should feel similar to your car. Just wanted to get an idea of what to expect.

The car feels great, the torque hits quickly. The car drives well, nice and smoothly. To tell you the truth, power wise...the EWG didn't really do much on the 39. I might be getting rid of it pretty soon. Don't get me wrong though, it is great to have and boost creep isn't an issue with it.

As for the powerband, with the 39 I have great power between 3200-5500rpm...after that it's pretty much just drying my hair...lol. You'll love it though, its more than enough power.

The car feels great, the torque hits quickly. The car drives well, nice and smoothly. To tell you the truth, power wise...the EWG didn't really do much on the 39. I might be getting rid of it pretty soon. Don't get me wrong though, it is great to have and boost creep isn't an issue with it.

As for the powerband, with the 39 I have great power between 3200-5500rpm...after that it's pretty much just drying my hair...lol. You'll love it though, its more than enough power.

That's great. I currently have a TD04 with EWG and the powerband is great but after 4.5k the car feels like it's dying.

I just want something to get me around 300whp give or take and to hold boost better up top without sacrificing my drivability or tranny.

That's great. I currently have a TD04 with EWG and the powerband is great but after 4.5k the car feels like it's dying.

I just want something to get me around 300whp give or take and to hold boost better up top without sacrificing my drivability or tranny.

The 39 will give you close to 300whp, but numbers are numbers. The powerband will be improved from that of the TD04 and you will enjoy it until you get used to it and want more power. The mod bug always gets ya! :D

a lot of 06 wrx's have been doing fine with the 39 upgrade, plus you can still use your stock injectors which saves some money for something else.

The 39 will give you close to 300whp, but numbers are numbers. The powerband will be improved from that of the TD04 and you will enjoy it until you get used to it and want more power. The mod bug always gets ya! :D

a lot of 06 wrx's have been doing fine with the 39 upgrade, plus you can still use your stock injectors which saves some money for something else.

Yeah, I didn't mean it for the numbers but more for a range of power that I'm looking for.

The mod bug is tough to fight but staring a $4,000+ tranny upgrade in the face is a good way to get me to stop there.

Yeah, I didn't mean it for the numbers but more for a range of power that I'm looking for.

The mod bug is tough to fight but staring a $4,000+ tranny upgrade in the face is a good way to get me to stop there.

Oh wait, thats right. You had all the issues with the parts you got when you were going stage 4 right? Sorry to hear about that. You're headed in the right direction now though. (if that was you)

Oh wait, thats right. You had all the issues with the parts you got when you were going stage 4 right? Sorry to hear about that. You're headed in the right direction now though. (if that was you)

Yeah that was me.

It seems to be all good now though. Junior made the car extremely smooth and I just bought a VF39 so my setup should be similar to a STage 2 STi which is what I would want anyway.

I want to cap it right there and leave any future mods to project cars.

Sounds good...good luck with everything! hope to see you post some numbers soon. :D

why does the graph say flywheel hp and you say whp?

why does the graph say flywheel hp and you say whp?

Thats just the way the graph is, when it is in fact whp.

^ now this is what the thread should have looked like from the get go!

Good info for the people who are intersted, FTW!