I was wondering if anybody has tried using Xylene and toluene as an octane booster? if so does anybody have mixing ratios?

I was wondering if anybody has tried using Xylene and toluene as an octane booster? if so does anybody have mixing ratios?

Search much?

http://www.dsm.org/archives/1996/04/19960425.txt/8.html This is from '96.

They do work although e85 (ethanol) @ $1.65gal is way cheaper. May not have much room left on the injectors running ethanol though.

I have used it and it works if race gas is unavailable

I think if you want around 100 oct. its one gal. of toluene to 11 gals. 92 oct.
thats how I mix it. you might try to google "rocket fuel"

Here is how you mix it and calculate your octane levels guys:

Example:

2gal Xylene(117 octane?) + 4gal Gasoline(93 octane)
---------------------------------------------------
Total Gallons(6)

equates to:

(2 x 117) + (4 x 93)
-------------------
6

= 101 octane


Xylene and Toluene act as better octane boosters than Ethanol because I beleive their stoichiometric ratios is closer to that of gasoline unlike E85 which takes 66% more fuel to acheive it's stoichiometric ratio.

thanks for the info, i knew how to figure out the total octane of the mix. also for those who have used it is there any adverse affect on the O2 sensors? im guess ing not since they are both aromatic hydrocarbons, and are already in gasoline.

whatever you do dont get xylene in the eyes...

thanks for the info, i knew how to figure out the total octane of the mix. also for those who have used it is there any adverse affect on the O2 sensors? im guess ing not since they are both aromatic hydrocarbons, and are already in gasoline.

That is one reason I stopped using leaded race fuel. IIRC, toluene & xylene will not harm the o2 sensors.

Xylene and Toluene act as better octane boosters than Ethanol because I beleive their stoichiometric ratios is closer to that of gasoline unlike E85 which takes 66% more fuel to acheive it's stoichiometric ratio.
Today 03:28 PM


akira02rex--Yes, ethanol, at high mix ratios, needs to run richer to make power and be safe. I didn't know 100 octane was wanted, if just a few points are needed, (say from 93 to 95), about 10% ethanol is all that is needed, at that ratio the afr's shouldn't be a problem. Mixed at that rate, toluene, xylene, and ethanol all raise the octane about the same.

66% more fuel sounds a bit high.

Oh...ethanol won't ruin the paint like the other two, take my word for it.:furious:

66% more fuel sounds a bit high.

It is high!

The correct increase in fuel for running straight E85, is to increase total fuel flow by 27% -30%. You can run up to 30% E85 with no changes the ECU has enough mixture control to adjust for that mix of E85 and gasoline.


High octane unleaded gasoline typically already contains up to 45% toluene. Adding more is not particularly effective. When mixed in small amounts to lower octane blends it works but is getting both expensive and hard to purchase.

Xylene also works but should not be used in cold weather as it has a very low evaporation rate and one isomer of the chemical has a very high freeze point and will crystalize out at about 50 degrees.

Larry

FYI--Just a word of caution. Cobb likes to run a lot of fuel in their stage2 tune, with somewhere around ~20%+ ethanol data logs showed over 100% IDC's at some points around 6500 rpm. That was another reason I switched to Toluene.

I can no longer find Toluene for less than $12 per gallon, too expensive for me to justify running it every day.

...I ran a LOT(hundreds of gallons) of both toluene and xylene through my 'stage4+' '02 wrx.

I found that it liked ~6-7quarts/tank full of 93 after it had already had it in the tank once.

I think that alcohol injection would be a MUCH more cost effective solution and yeild as good or better results once tuned for.

And anyone living in a 90 or 91 octane piss gas place would be a complete fool NOT to use an alcohol injection system in a HP, FI application.

Methanol injection is my next mod, but for now xylene is going to be my quick fix.

i ran a gallon of toluene with 10 gallons of 93 when i had my s/c corolla. the thing loved it. i heard that 1 gal toluene to 10 gals. of 93 only made 96 though?

it has gotten expensive and hard to find lately, and WI/Alky inj is much more efficient. But there is no hardware to purchase, no system to worry about, pretty much no anything except pouring it in the tank if you need some det protection for the track or ect. But to use it constantly WI FTW. Now only to complete my WI kit and install it lol

I use 2 gal. of toluene for tank in my STI 96 with 16 PSI all day long.

I know you can order it in 50 gal drums for significantly less than by the gallon too

I know you can order it in 50 gal drums for significantly less than by the gallon too

Tried that, they were going to hit me with haz mat shipping charges.

damn, I wonder if there are any local paint supply stores that can supply 50 or 55 gallon drums for pick up like if you said you were purchasing it as a contractor

damn, I wonder if there are any local paint supply stores that can supply 50 or 55 gallon drums for pick up like if you said you were purchasing it as a contractor

....a properly done alky injection system is, in the end, FAR less hassle and works better

I have done all the research.....bought and used all the toluene/xylene and since toluene has at LEAST doubled in price---IF-IF ya can find it(the dopers use it to make ICE).....and since toluene is far less available...the price of xylene has shot way up too.

If I could find toluene at $5/gallon like I used to be able to buy it at.....I'd STILL be using THAT.

At $10+/gallon......fergetaboutit.

^^^ completely understood and I too know where you are coming from as I used T.or X. alot in my old Shelby Dodge (first car) and it used to be more affordable. And while the price has gone up, its still cheaper to do 30% mix with 93 than buying 100oct. $2.50X13 + 3x$10 = $62.50 untaxed vs $5.00x16=$80 untaxed. Assuming 100oct. unleaded can still be had for $5.00 a gallon.

I am already going WI and know about and am a firm believer in its capabilities and theory, but I am going WI for det. resistance more than anything. Not pure power production. If I was interested in making big or the most power I would not stick with a response based turbo and TMIC.

My interest is a broad and useable and responsive power band with decent power for use in autoX, HPDE/track, and roads like The Dragon.

For people like myself that can self tune, store multiple maps, ect. It is worth it (for me) to have a safe and useable WI 93oct. map for "daily" use and a WI "100oct." 93+T. or X. map for when I really think I need it.

*Summary statement* I do not think T. or X. should be used instead of WI but as a complement to it as opposed to WI and race gas

....with a 50/50 mix.....the octane that the engine sees is over 100.

I think that WAY too many people have a very distorted view of what a properly set up alky injection system is and can do.

the above post is proof, to me, of this fact.


There should be NO PROBLEM tuning an alky injection system....for daily use.....that would be BETTER that using 100 octane ALL THE TIME.

THAT is the beauty of alky injection.......run a race gas map....on 93 in the tank...ALL THE TIME--if ya want.

....with a 50/50 mix.....the octane that the engine sees is over 100.

while there is significant detonation resistance added and you can tune your fuel and timing maps similar to high octance race gas it is hard to say what octane rating the mixture provides, not that this is any point to argue I just added this point for completeness.

I think that WAY too many people have a very distorted view of what a properly set up alky injection system is and can do.[QUOTE/]

You may be correct that many people do not, but I DO know exactly what an alky map tuned for power can produce.

[QUOTE]the above post is proof, to me, of this fact.

see your incorrect because you made an assumption or perhaps my post lead you too that assumption either way I will explain my standing

There should be NO PROBLEM tuning an alky injection system....for daily use.....that would be BETTER that using 100 octane ALL THE TIME.

This I feel is not 100% accurate. There are cavets, however, that are unacceptable to me. There is always the chance of the system failing. If you tune for alky to make the power as you are referring, then if for any reason the alky is not injected into the system as planned there is a great chance for failure if the engine is under heavy load. It would be similar to running a race gas map and then all of a sudden swithing to pump gas. The extra detonation resistance over the base fuel is no longer there. Granted there are many well thought out safety enhancers and there is ALWAYS the risk associated with modifying a vehicle in any form or fashion beyond it original intended and engineered purpose and each individual must make a choice on what level of risk is appropriate.

In my eyes you can get much or almost all of the benefit of Alky/Meth injection with simple water if tuned for it. Now this topic has been discussed before and I am not debating that point here. I am however making the statement that (for me) running a pure WI setup as detonation resistance without tuning it to the extent of a bleeding edge tune has a less likely chance of engine damage if the system was to fail. And there are still reliability gains to be had from a WI setup without tuning it for race gas power under hard use. Not to mention distilled water is dirt cheap, can be bought at any grocery store any time of the night.

THAT is the beauty of alky injection.......run a race gas map....on 93 in the tank...ALL THE TIME--if ya want.

And you are correct that is a beautiful OPTION with Alky or pure WI. There may be no better cost effective way to tune for that kinda power ALL THE TIME, And if I wanted to I could tune my WI system to make race gas power without T. or X. or actual race gas IF I feel the need for it and I am willing to accept the risk of doing it. I stated in my previous post that I (personally) do not need it ALL THE TIME. However I do also have the OPTION of using WI as a detonation suppressant ALL THE TIME and running X. or T. or race gas and tuning the piss out of it to the bleeding edge. Running T. or X. or race gas will provide the power with a decreased risk of damage due to failure of your octane enhancer.

Now let me just finish by saying this was not meant to be anything other than pleasant. I have been around for awhile and have seen how some people can take offense to or reply harshly instigating a INTRAWEB E-WAR with you. That is not my intention. My intention was to restate my stance in a way that better informs you of my outlook on the subject. You can respectfully agree to disagree based on your own personal experience and comfort level with the risk associated with these octane enhancing methods and that is cool. But I am well informed, and make well informed decisions based upon my experience and comfort level with the risk associated.

:rolleyes:

This may be of some use: http://www.intertrick.org/nasioc/files/TolueneOctaneCalculator.xls

I put it together a long time ago. Its ok for estimating. Just be sure to read the tech notes.