From what I have seen (as listed below), there are a number of different subaru oil pumps available without having to buy JUN, Cosworth etc.

For everyones benefit if someone knows the part number of these pumps could they please post it up-

7mm lastest EUDM SOHC engines
9mm all the older EUDM SOHC engines
10mm all the turbo engines and EJ25 engines (part# AA104~108, AA280)
12mm JDM dual AVCS engines

The size above refers to the pump gear width. I am personally interested in the 12mm pump as I am doing a new build now.

Do you know where one might get the 12mm pumpp or are you asking yourself?

Any word on the EJ22T pump and gear size? I will be running this and as the EJ22T had oil squirters from the factory, this pump has been sold to outflow all other Subaru OEM oil pumps.

def

Any word on the EJ22T pump and gear size? I will be running this and as the EJ22T had oil squirters from the factory, this pump has been sold to outflow all other Subaru OEM oil pumps.

def

I believe the EJ22 had a 10mm pump.

I have my sources trying to get the 12mm pump and part number right now and believe me as soon as I get one it is coming apart to see the differences.

vewwwy intewesting. i'll keep posted on this thread... its all about safely spinning the 2.5L to 8k :)

vewwwy intewesting. i'll keep posted on this thread... its all about safely spinning the 2.5L to 8k :)

you can do that with the 10mm...so why waste the 12mm...

that was the plan... but more flow (not more pressure) is a good thing... if thats how this other pump turns out.

volume and pressure are kinda related ;)

so it is added insurance

eh i keep reading that upping the pressure to push more oil through the same size valve isnt the solution, having a pump which flows more at a given pressure is the way to go. just repeating what i've heard... i'll be spinning somewhere in the 7500-8000 range, dont really need to make that decision until its time to shift, and thats a while off.

When looking at the front of the oil pump, on the top left corner there will be a number stamped. 8, 9 or 10 never have seen a 12. This corresponds to the size.

I run a 10 on my 2.5 and turn it to 8k.

You need to run the stock crank pulley, not an aluminum one. The stock one will stop harmonics, harmonics will hurt the oil pump gear.

I was just told that the ej22 pump was the same as the dual avcs 12mm pumps. However, I cannot confirm this personally. I have an email into an importer, to see how much we can get our hands on these pumps for.

I was just told that the ej22 pump was the same as the dual avcs 12mm pumps. However, I cannot confirm this personally. I have an email into an importer, to see how much we can get our hands on these pumps for.

There's a guy in the area doing a dual AVCS EJ20 swap into his RS... I'll see if perhaps we can pull his oilpump... then I'll shim it for him and put it back! (after taking a nice long peak along side my EJ22T pump) ;)

def

There's a guy in the area doing a dual AVCS EJ20 swap into his RS... I'll see if perhaps we can pull his oilpump... then I'll shim it for him and put it back! (after taking a nice long peak along side my EJ22T pump) ;)

def

def,

If you look in the "cross-drilling our crankshafts" thread, I believe on the first page, mick-the-ginge posted pics of an oil pump. if you look in one of the pics, it has a "10" near the bottom where the crank snout comes through.

You should be able to see the number, when the oil pump is on the car....covers removed.

Yea... I'll look for that, thanks!

def

def,

If you look in the "cross-drilling our crankshafts" thread, I believe on the first page, mick-the-ginge posted pics of an oil pump. if you look in one of the pics, it has a "10" near the bottom where the crank snout comes through.

You should be able to see the number, when the oil pump is on the car....covers removed.

It's on the top.

Here's what I recieved via PM from japanparts, an NASIOC vendor:

No; there's a -300 Part number but there doesn't seem to be any difference between this pump and the -280

Sorry; need a part number for this 12mm pump, otherwise cannot assist you

best

GW




Now, what we need to find out is what vehicles over there have avcs on both cams? vehicle model and engine size/code?

I wrote him back:

Im not sure if this will help, but could you look it up by make/model?L

JDM legacy EJ20
High compression EJ20 2.0 boxer DOHC 16 valve engine
Twin Scroll turbo
Dual AVCS for both inlet and exhaust cams

OR:
2003 JDM Legacy B4 2.0GT with an EJ20, single turbo

OR:
2007 JDM EJ25 Legacy GT Turbo has dual avcs?



See if that will get you a different part number. we are looking for the stamp of "12" on the top, next to where the crank snout goes through the pump.


I really, really, appreciate your help.

thanks again.

Ryan








It looks like the above vehicles have dual avcs....and they are all legacy's. hmm......

Here's what I recieved back from him:

Those Units have a -300 Part number oilpump

We are told this is *no different* to the -280 pump

GW

I just bought some oil pumps with the new part number 15010AA300 this is a “10” pump.

I just bought some oil pumps with the new part number 15010AA300 this is a “10” pump.

That's the Pump part number in the JDM database for the Dual AVCS motors

GW

I just bought some oil pumps with the new part number 15010AA300 this is a “10” pump.

so you bought the pump, mic'ed it and it's only a 10mm...
well that's a bummer and I guess would end the myth

I can supply 12mm pumps straight from Japan. Euro-pricing is around 120 Euros excl. tax (tax only for European buyers).

how sure are you that they are 12mm?
that's what about $250 right?...

I'm sure as I've sold and used a dozen already. Besides, it has a '12' cast where the standard pumps have a '10'.

120 Euro is about 150 US$ at current exchange rates. That's excluding shipment.

EDIT:

I can't sell thru NASIOC when I'm not an official vendor; I'm discussing this (ie. possibility of becoming a vendor) now with a moderator.

Is there anyway we could test them to be sure they flow more at the pressures we want to run?

def

Is there anyway we could test them to be sure they flow more at the pressures we want to run?

def

yeah, it would take making a quick test rig...

The Subaru oil pump is a direct drive gerotor style pump.

“The gerotor is a positive displacement pump mechanism, which will deliver a known, predetermined quantity of fluid in proportion to speed.”

The faster it spins the more volume it puts out. Shouldn’t it be better at 8000rpm than 4000rpm?

The faster it spins the more volume it puts out. Shouldn’t it be better at 8000rpm than 4000rpm?There's a bypass on the pump used to regulate pressure. After you reach this pressure you won't get much more.

I'm more worried about my idle pressure. I had to lower my defi alarm to 0.4 bar. Pressure stays between 0.5 and 1.0 bar during idle when everything is warmed up. (measured at the top oil galley plug on the right rear of the block)

I would think a pump with more displacement would fix this.

I've seen idle pressures of up to 2-2.5 bar with this pump.

You have a balancing act on pump sizing. The Ideal oil pump for an application will deliver just enough oil volume to reach design oil pressure under the worst case situation. Any more volumetric flow and you start bypassing oil through the oil pressure relief valve. This is bad for a couple reasons. First you are spending engine power to pump oil in a circle. Second that excess oil pumped heats up the oil as it keeps passing through the pump.

Idle oil pressure is not an important issue as long as it meets minimum pressure requirements. The real issue is what is the oil pressure at high rpm in the far end of the oil passages, like at the rear of the head on the oil feed to the rear cam bearings. These bearings are the farthest from the pump and should show pressure loss first. I would recommend you guys plumb a good oil pressure gauge to the rear of the head and see what oil pressure you see under heavy driving conditions, hot oil, and high rpm. If it is adequate (>10psi / 1000 rpm) you probably do not need a larger oil pump.

Too big of an oil pump can also cause problems by moving so much oil it sucks the oil pan dry before the oil can drain back from the heads and the cylinder walls etc.

That is bad because the oil pump will suck air and due to its high capacity pump lots of foamy oil to your bearings ---- your bearings will protest at this treatment and go on strike. They usually hold their strike meetings in the oil pan. Sometimes the connecting rods go on a sympathy strike, and join the bearings in the oil pan.

;)

Larry

I believe it's better to flow more oil than to increase the pressure; increasing pressure means even higher oil temperatures and more risk of foaming.

Regarding drawing to much oil from the oil pan, I've not seen this as a problem, as the oil return from the heads is not a restriction. Besides, just because it's a larger oil pump, does not mean it actually pumps more oil through the engine at maximum pressure. It pumps just so much oil as the engine requires, the rest is pumped back into the oil pan through the relief valve.

An engine requires more oil when:
1) there are more devices to be fed, like AVCS gears or oil squirters
2) when bearings start to wear and clearance increase

That's where the 12mm pumps have an advantage ove the stock pumps. If Subaru engineers could have done with the 10mm pumps, they would not have bothered manufacturing a bigger pump, would they?

I believe it's better to flow more oil than to increase the pressure

Increasing volume is how you increase the pressure up to the point you are opening the bypass valve.

Regarding drawing to much oil from the oil pan, I've not seen this as a problem, as the oil return from the heads is not a restriction.

It is not a restriction but the oil drain back path is certainly not as favorable as a V-8 or a an inline engine, both of which suffer from oil drain back problems at high rpm. Most people have no clue if this is happening because they do not have any way of knowing until it gets so bad it kills the engine.

It pumps just so much oil as the engine requires, the rest is pumped back into the oil pan through the relief valve.



Which is the problem if you are pumping more oil than the engine can use and pumping it out the bypass back into the pan, you are wasting horsepower pumping excess oil. That also increases the temperature of the oil just like running too much pressure. All the work the oil pump does to pump oil eventually becomes heat.


That's where the 12mm pumps have an advantage ove the stock pumps. If Subaru engineers could have done with the 10mm pumps, they would not have bothered manufacturing a bigger pump, would they?

No they wouldn't but since the USDM engines do not have oil squirters (except for the older 2.2L engines) and only the newer engines run AVCS, it is debatable if they need more oil flow. These are positive displacement pumps and will pump the same amount of oil per engine rev regardless of oil pressure, so they need to be sized according to the true needs of the engine. That can only be determined by measuring oil pressure at the far end of the oil system or running tests on a dyno where you measure bypass oil and rate of return from the heads to the pan.

I like the idea of having the 12 mm pump available and would use one if MY engine NEEDED it. Just throwing one on because it is bigger is a good way to throw away 10 hp.


Larry

Any thoughts on weather this is a good idea for an ej22t stroked to 2.35? Is the ej22t pump 10mm?

Any thoughts on weather this is a good idea for an ej22t stroked to 2.35? Is the ej22t pump 10mm?

The ej22 pump has a "10" stamped at the lower corner. Just verified this last night.

Bailey

Since I haven't been seeing any part numbers here. I'm building two STI engines for people right now and we ordered this pump.

Part #: 15010AA280

This pump has a "10" stamped on the upper left corner.

EJ22t oil pumps are different pumps than all the rest. They are a higher pressure pump. If you look at the front of the pumps, you'll see an allen bolt thing sticking off to the side. This is the pressure regulator. If you take out the allen plug, you'll find several things underneath: valve, spring, seals, and most importantly -> shims. Depending on the number of shims, it will dictate what the oil pressure will be coming from the pump. The higher the number of shims, the higher the pressure. A long time ago, I took apart every different part number oil pump and counted the shims. The EJ22t's have the highest number of shims: two (2). Some pumps have only one, some don't have any at all. The higher pressure of the pump more than likely is to compensate for the pressure drop in oil pressure created by the piston oil squirters. Other than the number of shims, there is no mechanical difference between the pumps. There is a slight difference in the housings between different pumps, but it is merely an external tab on some pumps for the timing belt guide cover, and also some pumps don't have the tab on the bottom for the oil cooler pipe. Usually I just recommend people get the ej22t pump when using the ej22t block; I haven't yet explained why until now.

Probably the reason why all pumps just don't automatically have two shims and higher pressure, is because excessive pressure causes parasitic drag on HP via the crank, and if additional pressure isn't required, than I guess Subaru doesn't see the need to waste HP/gas mileage on it.


This is from an old post by Xephyr and thought I would drop it in here. I was a little surprised to see none of the discussion talking about the internal differences within the pumps other than the 10mm versus 12mm discussion. If, as is being suggested, all Ej25 pumps are the same 10mm pumps, maybe the solution (in an absence of 12mm pumps) is to add a shim as suggested above. Maybe someone with an Ej257 10mm pump can pull the pump apart and see if it's already got 2 shims? Maybe what I am suggesting is a mute point and already covered, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to add it to the mix...

Good info Matt, I'd forgot about that post.

Before folks go shimming their own pumps, be warned you can over do that and blow oil filters with excessive pressure ( been there done that -- shot oil all over a parking lot when it pushed the seal out of a brand new oil filter )

If some one pulls a pump apart, please measure the thickness of the shim for future reference. The Subaru service manuals tell you what the design pop off relief pressure is for the oil pressure relief valve so assuming they all use the same spring (may be useful to note info about the spring too ) then folks could shim a standard pump up to a higher relief pressure by making their own shims.

One other note, the serious racing engine builders usually "blue print" their pumps and do some detail work on the oil passages to clean up sharp corners and such. It can be worth a significant increase in oil flow and a drop in oil temperatures to do that sort of thing.

Larry

Since I haven't been seeing any part numbers here. I'm building two STI engines for people right now and we ordered this pump.

Part #: 15010AA280

This pump has a "10" stamped on the upper left corner.

We'll confirm; -280 is a 10mm pump 4 Sure, Edit: that Part number has been superceded by 15010AA300

GW

Since I haven't been seeing any part numbers here. I'm building two STI engines for people right now and we ordered this pump.

Part #: 15010AA280

This pump has a "10" stamped on the upper left corner.

From what I have seen (as listed below), there are a number of different subaru oil pumps available without having to buy JUN, Cosworth etc.

For everyones benefit if someone knows the part number of these pumps could they please post it up-

7mm lastest EUDM SOHC engines
9mm all the older EUDM SOHC engines
10mm all the turbo engines and EJ25 engines (part# AA104~108, AA280)
12mm JDM dual AVCS engines

The size above refers to the pump gear width. I am personally interested in the 12mm pump as I am doing a new build now.


The Japanese catalog shows the oil pump on the Dual AVCS 20X/20Y motor to be 15010AA270. This is also shown for the 2005/2006 European Legacy with dual AVCS.

The 15010AA280 is used in all of the 205/207s across JDM, European, and US Markets.

While I can't confirm that the AA270 is a '12', I can confirm it is used on Dual AVCS motors.

The rotor housing is in fact different from the AA270 to the AA280, suggesting it is a different size. (15016AA130 vs 15016AA090)

Jeff Sponaugle

I wrote him back:

Im not sure if this will help, but could you look it up by make/model?L

JDM legacy EJ20
High compression EJ20 2.0 boxer DOHC 16 valve engine
Twin Scroll turbo
Dual AVCS for both inlet and exhaust cams

OR:
2003 JDM Legacy B4 2.0GT with an EJ20, single turbo

OR:
2007 JDM EJ25 Legacy GT Turbo has dual avcs?



See if that will get you a different part number. we are looking for the stamp of "12" on the top, next to where the crank snout goes through the pump.


I really, really, appreciate your help.

thanks again.

Ryan








It looks like the above vehicles have dual avcs....and they are all legacy's. hmm......

Here's what I recieved back from him:

Those Units have a -300 Part number oilpump

We are told this is *no different* to the -280 pump

GW

I just bought some oil pumps with the new part number 15010AA300 this is a “10” pump.

That's the Pump part number in the JDM database for the Dual AVCS motors

GW

I can supply 12mm pumps straight from Japan. Euro-pricing is around 120 Euros excl. tax (tax only for European buyers).

As I posted above:

The Japanese catalog shows the oil pump on the Dual AVCS 20X/20Y motor to be 15010AA270. This is also shown for the 2005/2006 European Legacy with dual AVCS.

The 15010AA280 is used in all of the 205/207s across JDM, European, and US Markets.


The JDM catalog shows the -270 part number for the JDM Legacy that is Dual AVCS. If the dual AVCS in fact needs the 12mm pump, this would be the part number.

Also, the European catalog shows the -270 pump for Dual AVCS for the first couple of years, and the most recent dual AVCS has the -310 pump.

I checked every individual part number for both the 270 and 310, and there are no internal part number difference (same rotor, etc), so the -310 and -270 must both be 12mm pumps, and the difference must be something in the casting.

Clearly Marnix could confirm this.

Japanparts: Can you order a -270 or a -310 pump?

It looks like either one would be a 12mm.


Jeff Sponaugle

Here is a bit more info:

First, the parts of the oil pump:

http://www.sponaugle.com/nasioc/OilPumpDiagram.jpg

Now here are the internal parts for the US STI pump (10mm)

http://www.sponaugle.com/nasioc/STIOilPumpParts.jpg

And here are the parts for the EU Dual AVCS Oil Pump (-270/-310)

http://www.sponaugle.com/nasioc/EU12mmOilPumpParts.jpg

Note that between the pumps the only difference is the:

Inner Rotor
Outer Rotor
Rotor Cover

This would suggest that the primary difference is the size of said rotor.

Keep in mind the housing for the pump itself is only available as a complete unit, so that would be the 4th difference in the to setups.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle

good info...time to order two...one to play with and one to install

good info...time to order two...one to play with and one to install

Cheap our side; 1/2 what you'll be quoted from Europe; PM me for a price

The -270 Pumps I'm delivering a couple to a customer in Europe in the next couple days so will photograph these and comment**


Both pumps can ship immediately ( 7-10 days to your door )

Best
Graham Ware
Export Manager



************************************************** ********

Does this mean anything to you guys??


QUOTE PM:
As for the oil pump the only numbers i found were the following: S23A which is stamped on the pump. BH3882G which is molded on the center ring. and on the back is 578.

just have them take the four screws off of the back and measure the thickness of the gear...

On a side note I just ordered a new STi oil pump and took it apart to see how many shims were in it. The last one I purchased (in 2005) contained only one shim. This new pump contained 2 shims...... just like the old 2.2T oil pumps.

I am buying a used 2.2t pump now... any recomendations on reconditioning the pump for use with a 450hp 2.0 wrx motor?

the 2.2t pump is the same as a RS (99-01) and any turbo model pump (excluding the "12mm")

Cheap our side; 1/2 what you'll be quoted from Europe; PM me for a price

The -270 Pumps I'm delivering a couple to a customer in Europe in the next couple days so will photograph these and comment**


Both pumps can ship immediately ( 7-10 days to your door )

Best
Graham Ware
Export Manager

PLEASE NOTE: these are NOT 12mm pumps, we DO NOT sell 12mm oil pumps

************************************************** ********

Ever manage to inspect & photograph those pumps?

I'll take my pump (with a 12 cast in it) apart at the begining of April. I'll measure and take photos as long as someone can give me some ques on porting/cleaning it up. Sorry I can't do it sooner but I have bigger fish to fry.

are the part numbers stamped on the oil pumps?

what we need to know is the damn part number of this thing.

Since I haven't been seeing any part numbers here. I'm building two STI engines for people right now and we ordered this pump.

Part #: 15010AA280

This pump has a "10" stamped on the upper left corner.

part number is obsolete

this part now supercedes to : 15010AA300

Simply to confirm that they are the same part....

part number is obsolete

this part now supercedes to : 15010AA300

Simply to confirm that they are the same part....

These are the AVVCS twin-scroll pump, and we have 'em but note:

*The -300 pump body is stamped "10" not 12 ( see top RHS of picture )

Here's a link to a picture of the Pump 15010AA300 part number; we frequently supply these to rally engine builders in Europe, these are on our Site and are a "Can Do"

http://www.japanparts.com/images/ImageFromDB.php?base=1&no=9579

Graham Ware
www.japanparts.com

Ever manage to inspect & photograph those pumps?

Defaults to a -300 Part number, casting has "10" written on it

http://www.japanparts.com/images/ImageFromDB.php?base=1&no=9579

Picture links above

GW

As I posted above:

The Japanese catalog shows the oil pump on the Dual AVCS 20X/20Y motor to be 15010AA270. This is also shown for the 2005/2006 European Legacy with dual AVCS.

The 15010AA280 is used in all of the 205/207s across JDM, European, and US Markets.

The JDM catalog shows the -270 part number for the JDM Legacy that is Dual AVCS. If the dual AVCS in fact needs the 12mm pump, this would be the part number.

Also, the European catalog shows the -270 pump for Dual AVCS for the first couple of years, and the most recent dual AVCS has the -310 pump.

I checked every individual part number for both the 270 and 310, and there are no internal part number difference (same rotor, etc), so the -310 and -270 must both be 12mm pumps, and the difference must be something in the casting.

Clearly Marnix could confirm this.

Japanparts: Can you order a -270 or a -310 pump?

It looks like either one would be a 12mm.

Jeff Sponaugle

These are the AVVCS twin-scroll pump, and we have 'em but note:

*The -300 pump body is stamped "10" not 12 ( see top RHS of picture )

Here's a link to a picture of the Pump 15010AA300 part number; we frequently supply these to rally engine builders in Europe, these are on our Site and are a "Can Do"

http://www.japanparts.com/images/ImageFromDB.php?base=1&no=9579

Graham Ware
www.japanparts.com


As per my original post, the 300 should be a 10mm. The only pump that might be 12mm is the -270 or -310. Can you confirm or deny this?

Jeff

Has anyone found the number for the 12mm pump???

I would love to have a 12mm pump for reasons that nobody has mentioned...

I will explain my reasoning for a 12mm pump...

The biggest problem I see in the oiling system on our engines is that it runs high pressure to begin with...

Every engine design I have ever seen that runs high oil pressure does so because there is a severe lack of oil volume at high rpm...

Raising the oil pressure is an easy way to get around it, until the journal speed exceeds a certain point...
When that journal speed is reached, the oil can no longer pull heat away from the bearings, and crank pumping begins...
Crank pumping = (The oil is going by the main bearings too fast to absorb any heat, and the journal over heats, causing some of the oil to break down and out gas fumes and other nasty stuff... This pumping effect will always start at the largest bearing diameter, being the mains, and pump oil, gases, and debris to the rod bearings...)

Thats usually when the bearings hold a meeting in the oil pan...

The only things that can hurt a bearing in a running engine are: overheating, metal to metal contact, and and the debris created from the contact... In that order...

Over heating can be prevented by increasing the volume, and lowering the pressure to a point where the journal speed doesn't create out gassing of the oil...

Oiling systems need to be a balance between volume and pressure to prevent the three events of bearing failure from happening...

I would much rather have the extra volume, as have the extra pressure...
If you prevent the journal from over heating, the next two steps of bearing failure wont happen...

So, with that said... What is the part number for the 12mm oil pump?????

Every engine design I have ever seen that runs high oil pressure does so because there is a severe lack of oil volume at high rpm...

When that journal speed is reached, the oil can no longer pull heat away from the bearings, and crank pumping begins...
Crank pumping = (The oil is going by the main bearings too fast to absorb any heat, and the journal over heats, causing some of the oil to break down and out gas fumes and other nasty stuff... This pumping effect will always start at the largest bearing diameter, being the mains, and pump oil, gases, and debris to the rod bearings...)


I just wanted to say, I drove in a 350Z and it had reached near 130psi of oil pressure. I thought that was ALOT for a factory production car.





My other question, since i have never heard of crank pumping, is it a true concern in our cars? Maybe if you're running on the track, but for occasional DD purposes and spirited WOT, no?

... is it a true concern in our cars? Maybe if you're running on the track, but for occasional DD purposes and spirited WOT, no?

For daily driving, you are not going to see a problem with the factory oil system...

WOT shouldn't cause problems either...

The problem crops up in any engine that the journal speed exceeds the design of the oiling system...

Once the journal speed exceeds a certain point, so does the oil flow thru the journal...
And pressure dictates this speed, volume has very little effect on this speed...

Let me give you two examples of oiling systems, and work arounds for them...
cicra 1970 engines

Small Block Chevy... (350)
The oil system in these engines works fine until about 6500 rpm...
Then it starts crank pumping because there isn't enough oil volume....
The most common way aroung this is to use a Big Block or high volume oil pump...
The pressures are not changed...
And now you can rev it to 9000 rpm with the proper build, with a stock steel crank...
Keep in mind, that this oiling system has small journal diameters and surface areas...

Pontiac (455)
The oil system in these engines works fine until about 5000 rpm...
Then it starts crank pumping...
The most common fix for this is a high pressure pump...
Then you can rev it to about 6000 rpm, anything past that, and then the journals fry from overheating...
This is a large journal diameter and surface area engine...

Do you see where this is going...
Large diameter/surface journals require high pressure, and are limited in journal speed...
Small diameter/surface journals require high volume...
Small diameter journals can spin faster than large diameter journal because of the surface speed of the journals...

Just as an example: Journal speeds
Small Block 350 mains are 2.45", at 9000rpm thats 60 feet per second
Pontiac 455 mains are 3.25", at 6000rpm thats 70 feet per second
Subaru mains are about 2.5 inches...

and honda mains are even smaller, right? they spin those to the moon.

im at 7300 right now, and want 7500. :devil: changing that soon.

Yes Hondas are smaller...

try this part #. I haven't measured the gear yet but it does have a 12 cast in the case. 15010aa270

Anybody with access to the parts catalog have the answer for wrxzzz?

The Japanese catalog shows the oil pump on the Dual AVCS 20X/20Y motor to be 15010AA270. This is also shown for the 2005/2006 European Legacy with dual AVCS.

The 15010AA280 is used in all of the 205/207s across JDM, European, and US Markets.

While I can't confirm that the AA270 is a '12', I can confirm it is used on Dual AVCS motors.

The rotor housing is in fact different from the AA270 to the AA280, suggesting it is a different size. (15016AA130 vs 15016AA090)

Jeff Sponaugle

try this part #. I haven't measured the gear yet but it does have a 12 cast in the case. 15010aa270



dexterous Anybody with access to the parts catalog have the answer for wrxzzz?

mebbe?

I googled that part number and came up with this:

POMPA OLIO MOTORE EJ 25
[Brand: Subaru]
[Cod. 15010AA270]

Portata maggiorata

Prezzo: € 146,00 + iva (€ 175,20)

Looks like from an EJ25 motor. Sorry no useful information.

try this part #. I haven't measured the gear yet but it does have a 12 cast in the case. 15010aa270

just take the four screws off of the back, pull off the plastic plate and measure the thickness...

jdm 207 comes w/ a 10 pump, I just pulled it out of my ver.7 , as for if anyone needs one, hit me up.

IT'S 12MM!!! No shims. I plan to do minimal porting on some sharp casting edges and add a shim to the valve spring. Anyone have an oppinion on how many shims? I was thinking 1 would be enough.

I got the pump from Marnix. It's the part number that I listed above.

Does anyone know the part number of the bypass valve spring shim? I called the dealership parts department and they say they can't do anything without a vin number. They are SO helpful!

Anyone have an oppinion on how many shims? I was thinking 1 would be enough.

I concure --- go slowly if you over shim the pump you can literally blow the oil filter off the car, or push the gasket out of the oil filter ----- don't ask me how I learned that when I was 16.

Larry

I am going to go to the Subaru Dealer tomorrow and see if they can order me either the 15010aa270 or the 15010aa310...

I'll get back to everyone on the availabilty thru a retail dealer...

I am going to go to the Subaru Dealer tomorrow and see if they can order me either the 15010aa270 or the 15010aa310...

I'll get back to everyone on the availabilty thru a retail dealer...

We can quote for; and supply, either pump: but I have no confirmation that either of these Part numbers are *12mm* pumps

Graham Ware
Export Manager

************************************************** ********

Ron at Axis has these pumps. He just got some from NZ, so give him a call.

Jeff

My pump came in a bag with a subaru parts sticker that had 15010aa270 on it. I measured both the gears and they are 12mm. Again, does anyone have the part number for the shim or know where I can get one?

The parts list is on post 46...
The shim appears to be 031106000....

Someone correct me if I am wrong.....

thanks, I had forgoten about that post.

The dealer here can not order the 270 or the 310... :(

The dealer here can not order the 270 or the 310... :(

Are those only JDM part numbers? Probably are, and if so, that makes sense.

Apparently the are... They don't even come up in the us catalogs...

I believe shim, spring and plunger of the AA270 are the same as for the 15010AA280, but I have to check that.

I'm sure the shims are the same. I ordered one from the dealer. $0.17.

I believe shim, spring and plunger of the AA270 are the same as for the 15010AA280, but I have to check that.

Yes


Here is a bit more info:

First, the parts of the oil pump:

http://www.sponaugle.com/nasioc/OilPumpDiagram.jpg

Now here are the internal parts for the US STI pump (10mm)

http://www.sponaugle.com/nasioc/STIOilPumpParts.jpg

And here are the parts for the EU Dual AVCS Oil Pump (-270/-310)

http://www.sponaugle.com/nasioc/EU12mmOilPumpParts.jpg

Note that between the pumps the only difference is the:

Inner Rotor
Outer Rotor
Rotor Cover

This would suggest that the primary difference is the size of said rotor.

Keep in mind the housing for the pump itself is only available as a complete unit, so that would be the 4th difference in the two setups.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle

I have no experience with the AA310 pump, only know the AA270.

I believe shim, spring and plunger of the AA270 are the same as for the 15010AA280, but I have to check that.

the -280 is obsolete; order this part number you get -300 now

Just so y'know

Graham Ware
Export Manager

************************************************** ******

The dealer here can not order the 270 or the 310... :(

I'm looking into pricing and availability and will quote you early next week, while rules here won't let me quote pricing, we should be able to supply, in US$, for pricing that has been posted here in EUROS ( go back a few posts;) )

**Update March 22nd: Pumps -270 and -310 are immediately available Japan-side; would suggest price delivered to a 48 States address to be around US$15X.00 -US$16X.00 per Pump, suggest PM or email me to followup *I will reinforce the fact I don't believe *either* Part number is a 12mm pump! These are almost certainly 10mm * *:Update: the -270 part number is 12mm!

Best

Graham Ware
Export Manager
* Since 1996 *

Reviving the thread back to life!

So did anyone come to a clear conclusion on what the part number is and if it is still available. I see one person saying yes and the second saying no....

Reviving the thread back to life!

So did anyone come to a clear conclusion on what the part number is and if it is still available. I see one person saying yes and the second saying no....

-270 is the 12mm Pump part number, we recently supplied one and the customer confirmed the measurement

We can supply this Pump

GW
Export Manager
Japanparts LLC

I measured mine and it was 12mm. Look back in the thread to see the part number.

awsome thanks for the info!

**Update March 22nd: Pumps -270 and -310 are immediately available Japan-side; would suggest price delivered to a 48 States address to be around US$15X.00 -US$16X.00 per Pump, suggest PM or email me to followup ... *:Update: the -270 part number is 12mm!

that's great news, graham. well, it is to me at least! i don't know if the vast majority of people really understand how much better a pump with a larger impeller is than a pump with just a jacked up pressure bypass valve.

Got mine from Japanparts recently. Arrived sooner than I was expecting and was packed quite well for the long journey!

Russ

Got mine from Japanparts recently. Arrived sooner than I was expecting and was packed quite well for the long journey!

Russ


Due to demand: Japanparts are offering the 12mm Pump at special pricing

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263180

Graham Ware
Export Manager
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *

Idle oil pressure is not an important issue as long as it meets minimum pressure requirements. The real issue is what is the oil pressure at high rpm in the far end of the oil passages, like at the rear of the head on the oil feed to the rear cam bearings. These bearings are the farthest from the pump and should show pressure loss first. I would recommend you guys plumb a good oil pressure gauge to the rear of the head and see what oil pressure you see under heavy driving conditions, hot oil, and high rpm.
Just to be sure I'm not plumbing something in the wrong location, this plug (green circle) goes into an oil gallery, right? I removed the plug, and it sure looks like an oil gallery, and when I pull the valve cover I can see the gallery running the length of the head, I just want to be sure I'm not missing something. :)
http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/Subaru/Engine%20build/oil%20pressure%20location.jpg
The gauge sending units for my DEFI DIN gauge pack are 1/8" BSPT, so one will thread right in there. Right now I have it in an oil filter sandwich adapter, but I'm swapping out the engine this weekend so it would be an ideal time to move the sending unit to the back of the head.

That is bad because the oil pump will suck air and due to its high capacity pump lots of foamy oil to your bearings ---- your bearings will protest at this treatment and go on strike. They usually hold their strike meetings in the oil pan. Sometimes the connecting rods go on a sympathy strike, and join the bearings in the oil pan.
Classic quote, Larry. :lol: :lol:

Pat Olsen

Got mine from Japanparts recently. Arrived sooner than I was expecting and was packed quite well for the long journey!

Russ

Thanks, Russ!

Let me know anything else you should want

best

Graham Ware
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *

Just to be sure I'm not plumbing something in the wrong location, this plug (green circle) goes into an oil gallery, right?
Any comments on my question from this weekend?

Thanks,
Pat

Pat,

You should start a new thread with your question.

From what I have seen (as listed below), there are a number of different subaru oil pumps available without having to buy JUN, Cosworth etc.

7mm lastest EUDM SOHC engines
9mm all the older EUDM SOHC engines
10mm all the turbo engines and EJ25 engines (part# AA104~108, AA280)
12mm JDM dual AVCS engines
For clarification, based on the engines I have sitting in my garage, the SOHC N/A EJ25 engines have 9mm pumps, while the DOHC N/A EJ25 engines have 10mm pumps. That's based on 3 EJ25 shortblocks I have - a USDM Phase I, a USDM Phase II, and a JDM Phase I. It makes sense - the 10mm pump provides more flow, which the DOHC heads (with 2 extra cams worth of bearings to lubricate) would need.

The USDM Phase II 9mm pump has a shim in it. The JDM Phase I 10mm pump does not (but will in a few minutes :) ). I haven't removed the plunger from the USDM Phase I 10mm pump yet, but I would assume it's shim-less, too.

If some one pulls a pump apart, please measure the thickness of the shim for future reference. The Subaru service manuals tell you what the design pop off relief pressure is for the oil pressure relief valve so assuming they all use the same spring (may be useful to note info about the spring too ) then folks could shim a standard pump up to a higher relief pressure by making their own shims.
I measured the shim with a set of vernier calipers (not terribly accurate) at about 1mm. With a dial micrometer I get 0.040", which works out to 1.016mm, so I guess the vernier calipers aren't too bad after all. :)

I stopped by the dealer today and asked if they had any of the shims on hand (part number 031106000 from the diagrams Jeff Sponaugle posted). It turns out the shim is nothing special - it's just a washer. It's used all over the car. The parts guy was reading me all the pages that came up listing that part number - intake manifold on the old carbureted cars, rear bumper hardware, door hardware, etc etc. I knew it looked like it was just a washer, but I had assumed that it was a "special" washer with a specific thickness to give the correct oil pressure. Apparently, that's not the case. Obviously one should still pay attention to what size washer you put in there, but the shim isn't anything special. Maybe that's old news?

Pat

So with that said, a spring and shim job on a 10mm USDM dual cam pump would be a nice increase in flow and pressure... Comperable to the JDM 12mm Pumps? Correct me if i am wrong. I have a ej22t pump with a cracked housing and a usdm 2.0l pump and i have a build happening as we speak...

So with that said, a spring and shim job on a 10mm USDM dual cam pump would be a nice increase in flow and pressure... Comperable to the JDM 12mm Pumps? Correct me if i am wrong. I have a ej22t pump with a cracked housing and a usdm 2.0l pump and i have a build happening as we speak...

No....not comparable. the 12mm has ~20% increase in flow rate over the 10mm. You most likely won't get a 12mm flow rate out of a 10mm pump by shimming it. You'd have to shim the hell out of it and run ungodly amounts of pressure.

think about it like this....

10mm 100psi
12mm 100psi


the larger rotors are flowing more volume of oil. Good? Bad? Depends on your thinking.

So with that said, a spring and shim job on a 10mm USDM dual cam pump would be a nice increase in flow and pressure... Comperable to the JDM 12mm Pumps? Correct me if i am wrong. I have a ej22t pump with a cracked housing and a usdm 2.0l pump and i have a build happening as we speak...

Does your EJ22T pump have a 9 or 10 on it?

Thanks,
Russ

Does your EJ22T pump have a 9 or 10 on it?

Thanks,
Russ

The pump has a 10 i believe... Havent looked at it in a while sitting in the garage. What would it mean if there was a 9? I dont think ive heard of a 9 pump.

Dru

No....not comparable. the 12mm has ~20% increase in flow rate over the 10mm. You most likely won't get a 12mm flow rate out of a 10mm pump by shimming it. You'd have to shim the hell out of it and run ungodly amounts of pressure.

think about it like this....

10mm 100psi
12mm 100psi


the larger rotors are flowing more volume of oil. Good? Bad? Depends on your thinking.



What i think is better would be more volume. (What I think and what others think could be different)The boxers are starved for oil most of the time. And if redline is being raised any amount then there will definately be a necessity for increased volume... So dealing with the 2 pumps i have right now, what do you think I can do in the way of maybe, parts exchange between them both to make one of them better for my 2.0L 35R build? Basic parts swap and maybe some porting... But out of what I have, what parts swapped would be best?

Thanks all

Dru

(PS If this is wrong forum for my inquiry please tell me)

I believe the two pumps you have are basically the same 10mm pumps. The only difference (based solely on what this thread says, not on personal experience) is that the EJ22T pump has 2 shims while the EJ20T pump has just 1. You can port the pump a bit, but there's nothing you can do to increase the flowrate unless you get a 12mm pump.

The pump has a 10 i believe... Havent looked at it in a while sitting in the garage. What would it mean if there was a 9? I dont think ive heard of a 9 pump.

Dru

I think a '9' would mean it's a 9mm wide pump gear. My old EJ22T block originally had a '10', while my built motor has a '9' on its' EJ22T spec'd oil pump.

Russ

one thing I'll be interested to see is at high rpm how much the 12mm oil pump aerates oil in comparison to the 10mm pump...I know it is an issue with small blocks...

Wouldn't oil aeration be more a factor of pump RPM than size of the gear?

not really...when you try to fill/draw a larger volume (volume per "tooth" or the pump gear) through the same opening you are demanding a higher flow rate at a lower rpm...

Someone needs to sticky this one... nice info

one thing I'll be interested to see is at high rpm how much the 12mm oil pump aerates oil in comparison to the 10mm pump...I know it is an issue with small blocks...

We've yet to see an Impreza with a small block: no doubt someone will do it ;)

A couple of our European customers build/rebuild rally engines and swear by the reliability of the 12mm pump, we have a special price on these at present...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263180

GW
Export Manager
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *

I just recieved a couple of these a few weeks ago. They got here quicker than I thought. I haven't taken one apart yet, but they have a 12 on them, and do look thicker. :D

Not to threadjack, but does anyone know what the two "ports" sticking out of the bottom of the oil pump do? Stock they're blocked with bronze colored plugs with a hex key fitting in the center. Are they for an external air to oil cooler?

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan - I've wondered about that myself. I've thought about that location for supply/return for an external oil cooler, but I'm pretty sure it would be a very bad idea. The "normal" method for installing an external oil cooler is to use a sandwich adapter between the oil filter and block. That puts the cooler in series with the oil flow path - pump to filter to cooler to engine (or cooler to filter, I'm not sure which actually comes first).

If you used the threaded ports on the bottom of the oil pump, I'm pretty sure you'd be putting the cooler in parallel with the flow to the engine. Who knows what the flow balance would be? With those nice big ports and some -8AN or -10AN lines, the path of least resistance would probably be through the cooler, so all the oil would want to flow there rather than flowing to those pesky engine bearings.

This "analysis" is based on the one oil pump I've held in my hand, just last week, so it is possible I wasn't looking at flow through the pump properly.

Pat

I agree with that. Not a good idea.

I agree with that. Not a good idea.

Yea, the bearing clearances are tight enough as it is! So what the heck are those ports for? I was staring up at them this evening as I was changing my oil, but that didn't help any :)

Is there a place on NASIOC to get service manuals for JDM Subarus so I could poke at the oil pump part and see if there's an oil cooler or something there?

Thanks,
Ryan

I just recieved a couple of these a few weeks ago. They got here quicker than I thought. I haven't taken one apart yet, but they have a 12 on them, and do look thicker. :D

It's been established from a number of sources that the -270 Part number is the 12mm pump

Best
GW
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *

The US pumps have the same bolts. My guess is that the holes are used for manufacturing and then just caped off.

Would it be too much trouble to guess they are there to help the pump circulate oil? Picture an air intake with a resonator box... Obviously done for controlled breathing purposes (not normally for more power though) I think the pumps use those as some sort of a buffer/resonator for oil buildup. Fills up the tubes and starts pumping. Or maybe they are there to keep the pump from failing due to lack of lubrication? lol

My guess is that the holes are used for manufacturing and then just caped off.
That would be my guess, too.

On an unrelated note, going from 0 shims to 1 shim in the 10mm pump on my N/A DOHC EJ25 gave about a 20# boost in oil pressure.

Pat Olsen

Payment sent. Can't wait to get it.

Payment sent. Can't wait to get it.

Received, and should have a tracking number for you next week

Best

GW
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *

************************************************** ********

That would be my guess, too.

On an unrelated note, going from 0 shims to 1 shim in the 10mm pump on my N/A DOHC EJ25 gave about a 20# boost in oil pressure.

Pat Olsen

Is that 20% or 20psi ?

Dru

# = pounds, so 20psi

Was that across the board or just at a certain rpm Patrick?

Was that across the board or just at a certain rpm Patrick?

If you shim the pressure relief spring, it will only help on the upper end.....meaning more pressure to actually make the bypass transition.

so you shouldn't gain anything at idle or any other lower rpm......untill you have enough pumping volume and pressure to actually relieve the new pressure setting.

I dunno, my hot idle pressure is higher than it's ever been before, too. I agree that that doesn't seem to make sense based on my understanding of how the bypass is supposed to work, but the pressure is clearly higher at idle than it was before I added the shim.

Pat

funds sent

Maybe if you port the pump a bit it will help with the psi at idle... Porting tends to decrease psi a bit but help flow up top at higher rpms. Who knows the psi up top could end up being the same with a nice port job.

The higher idle pressure this pump will give you is not a bad thing at all.
Especially with the top end (cylinder head) oiling issues and wear associated.

The pressure relief valve/spring only comes into affect when the oil pressure exceeds the force of the spring.
This is why you see more pressure at idle (more volume is being moved, but not enough volume to create enough pressure to overcome the spring pressure at idle.)

The Cobb motorsports pump is based off of the 12mm pump, the pressure relief spring this pump uses matches the relief pressure to the USDM STI pump.
So you will see higher pressures when the pump is operating below the peak pressure, this is a good thing.
- This will allow the top of the engine (cylinder heads) to get oil sooner on startup.
- This will reduce the excessive camshaft journal wear that is commonly seen.

We do not add extra shims to our pump, this is not needed when using the high volume pump we offer.

I just saw this thread. I am doing an engine build on a 3.3 liter motor. It would make sense to me that the 6 cylinder motors would require a 33% larger oil volume than the 4 cylinder motors. This weekend I removed the oil pump on my EG33. I'll check the impeller thickness this week and compare the dimentions and fit to another 02 WRX pump I removed a couple of months ago. Off the top of my head The EG33 oil pump has a slightly different sensor slot arrangement than the 4 bangers. However, I'll compare the internal components to see if they are interchangeable. I'll let you know what I find out. If my SVX pump has a 10 mm impeller, you can bet I'll be looking for internal parts to do a 12 mm impeller, if it fits.

I just saw this thread. I am doing an engine build on a 3.3 liter motor. It would make sense to me that the 6 cylinder motors would require a 33% larger oil volume than the 4 cylinder motors. This weekend I removed the oil pump on my EG33. I'll check the impeller thickness this week and compare the dimentions and fit to another 02 WRX pump I removed a couple of months ago. Off the top of my head The EG33 oil pump has a slightly different sensor slot arrangement than the 4 bangers. However, I'll compare the internal components to see if they are interchangeable. I'll let you know what I find out. If my SVX pump has a 10 mm impeller, you can bet I'll be looking for internal parts to do a 12 mm impeller, if it fits.

It seems that the 12mm pump may be thicker than the 10. We are waiting on the measurements...

It seems that the 12mm pump may be thicker than the 10. We are waiting on the measurements...

the 4-cylinder 12mm Pump, Subaru Japan have just changed the Part number

was -270, now -310

There's no other difference to the part itself

This being the thread about Oil Pumps and their Part numbers....

Graham Ware
Export Manager
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *

Would it be too much trouble to guess they are there to help the pump circulate oil? Picture an air intake with a resonator box... Obviously done for controlled breathing purposes (not normally for more power though) I think the pumps use those as some sort of a buffer/resonator for oil buildup. Fills up the tubes and starts pumping. Or maybe they are there to keep the pump from failing due to lack of lubrication? lol

Hmm, I didn't think of that. I know the service manual mentions that the oil pump has an internal oil reservoir to prevent dry starts after sitting for a while - perhaps the plugs are to drain this reservoir in case of oil contamination due to cooked bearings?

-Ryan

Hmm, I didn't think of that. I know the service manual mentions that the oil pump has an internal oil reservoir to prevent dry starts after sitting for a while - perhaps the plugs are to drain this reservoir in case of oil contamination due to cooked bearings?

-Ryan

Internal oil reservoir. Sounds like what I was trying to describe. But for what exact purpose? Could it be used for pressure sensor or temp sensor? Could it be used for an oil cooler? (BEST QUESTION...) Could an oil cooler run on the in and out port from the internal reservoir and be used to cool the oil in the pump itself? (I dont know how else to clarify that) Just some ideas. And input?

I just took apart the SVX and WRX pumps and compared them. The SVX pump has a 12 mm impeller. It is $116.55 at subaruparts.com (PN 15010AA133). I bought the Cosworth 10 mm for 160 :rolleyes: :mad: The casing is thicker on the WRX pump. Everything matches up except there are two extra bolt holes to something on the WRX. Looks like they are for some sort of external bracket. Also there is an extra sensor connection on the SVX pump. This might be able to stay or it could be ground off. The only thing I don't know is if the camshaft sprocket would fit properly due to the thickness of this pump. If someone has a motor apart and would like to try out my pump I could send it to them for testing. Check out the picks.

http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/cdigerlando/?action=view&current=IMGA0806.jpg
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/cdigerlando/?action=view&current=IMGA0804.jpg
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/cdigerlando/?action=view&current=IMGA0803.jpg

I don't know if it would be worth the aggrevation thought. What does the 12mm go for?

^you're welcome! :)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/cdigerlando/IMGA0806.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/cdigerlando/IMGA0804.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/cdigerlando/IMGA0803.jpg

Thanks. Guess I need to improve my computer skills!

Just saw the link to the 12 mm pump. It's $160 from Japanparts. Hardly worth the effort modifying the SVX pump for the extra $44 bucks. But I probably need a 14 mm pump for my SVX! Anyone got one of those?

Is anyone running a EJ22 with USDM WRX heads? If so what pump are you running?

Is anyone running a EJ22 with USDM WRX heads? If so what pump are you running?

I'm building a 22T with WRX heads and thinking about using the -270 (now -310) 12mm pump. Now, I would like to know if it fits with our crank, it might be a
little bit thicker.

Also do we need a bigger oil pan! Is there a danger to drain empty the oem oil pan because of the added flow?

Just saw the link to the 12 mm pump. It's $160 from Japanparts. Hardly worth the effort modifying the SVX pump for the extra $44 bucks. But I probably need a 14 mm pump for my SVX! Anyone got one of those?

The SVX is a 6-cylinder engine: our current pricing is US$159.00 , delivered, for the 4-cylinder 12mm pump, at least until the end of July '07

SVX: Likely a different application ( ? ) Rare cars....
No "14mm pump" that we know of

Interesting post tho' ;)

GW
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *

The SVX is a 6-cylinder engine: our current pricing is US$159.00 , delivered, for the 4-cylinder 12mm pump, at least until the end of July '07

SVX: Likely a different application ( ? ) Rare cars....
No "14mm pump" that we know of

Interesting post tho' ;)

GW
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *


Yes I was just kidding. Aftermarket for the SVX is slim pickens.

I'm building a 22T with WRX heads and thinking about using the -270 (now -310) 12mm pump. Now, I would like to know if it fits with our crank, it might be a little bit thicker.

Also do we need a bigger oil pan! Is there a danger to drain empty the oem oil pan because of the added flow?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Didnt think of that. Probably not considering how much oil is being slung around by the crank and the actual increase in flow. Theres almost 5quarts down there and when shes warm probably about 2-3. Itll be AOK!

never mind. didn't read the last page of this thread

Slightly off topic but what are the different oil pan sizes? Quarts vs. displacement. Is the EJ22t different than the EJ22 pan?

I received my 12mm pump today from JapanParst (Thanks for the speedy 5-day delivery Graham! ). I'm going to install it on an Axis Stg 5 motor.
I was thinking of adding a shim, just like the EJ22t pumps to increase the operating pressure. what do ya'll think?

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump_s.jpg (http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump.jpg)

^I'd call Ron.

^I'd call Ron.

yup! I was waiting for pump then for sure calling Ron to see what he recommends.

I would not shim it unless you see lower than expected oil pressure. Higher volume flow will naturally result in higher system pressure.

Oil pressure will peak out at the relief pressure any way once you get up to 3000 rpm or so. Extra pressure is horsepower, so don't use more than you need (about 10 psi per 1000 rpm). The higher volume flow will allow you to run wider bearing clearances and still maintain normal oil pressure. That increased flow will improve oil cooling of the bearings, and quicker recovery if the pickup sucks air.


Larry

^^ - thanks Larry
I'll run it first without the shim and monitor the pressure.
You're right, the ~20% increase in flow avoids the need to run the higher pressure in the 10mm pumps.

Anyone running one of these pumps yet? what pressures are you seeing at iddle, 3000 rpm, WOT ?

and thanks for the excellent pictures which answers an earlier enquiry on this thread...

GW
Japanparts LLC
* Since 1996 *


I received my 12mm pump today from JapanParst (Thanks for the speedy 5-day delivery Graham! ). I'm going to install it on an Axis Stg 5 motor.
I was thinking of adding a shim, just like the EJ22t pumps to increase the operating pressure. what do ya'll think?

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump_s.jpg (http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump.jpg)

^^ - thanks Larry
I'll run it first without the shim and monitor the pressure.
You're right, the ~20% increase in flow avoids the need to run the higher pressure in the 10mm pumps.

Anyone running one of these pumps yet? what pressures are you seeing at iddle, 3000 rpm, WOT ?
As long as you don't need the extra pressure for something specific... like running the motor at higher RPMs (8500+).

Russ

I recieved my 12mm pump and was'nt going to dissassemble it but I couldn't stand it, so I did. I have other pumps laying around and I picked a new 7mm I ordered before I new better about asking for the good ones, for comparison. Some of the screws were in pretty tight but came out without damage. The first thing I noticed was that where the pump moves the oil to the block that orfice was smaller than the hole in the 2.2 open deck motor that was the easiest to use for comparison. The hole in the block is about 5/8 inch and the hole in the pump is smaller. I opened it up to 5/8 with a drill. I had the pump completely apart while I made the changes. Also If you look up the discharge passage mine had a lip hanging out over the opening in the little capture cavity, so I used the 5/8 drill bit and a pair of vice grips for a handle and reamed this opening out to remove the protruding lip, also I rounded the turn toward the block in the passage. As a comparison the small capture cavity of the pump cavity is also not as nice as the 7mm one, I haven't worked on this area yet. There is also some casting flash over on the pickup side that needed cleaning up. Over all the pump looked good but really the little 7mm casting housing had no flaws I could nit pick but it did also have the small exit hole also. Going back to where the pump mates to the block even if you match those two holes the inside of the block has a small narrowing of the passage where it meets the oil gallery, we also noticed this in my son's new built STI block, I t looks sorta like the mold process is not infallable on the oil galleries. I think someone may have already mentioned this but ALL OF THE OIL GALLERIES NEED TO BE AT LEAST CHECKED WITH YOUR EYE TO OBSERVE FOR TIGHT AND PARTIALLY BLOCKED JUNCTIONS. My son just bought a built STI block and I have a 5k miles 02 WRX motor that we probably won't take apart to inspect but if we build our own I garrantee we will have good oil passages on the ones we build, don't expect someone else to do this for you unless you ask and pay for it.

Charliew

I should say that I think the 12mm pump is great even though I nit picked it. A person can always find an area that can use improvement. We are building hand built motors and therefore we can improve on any mass-produced assembly. I didn't mean to degrade the pump in any way, in fact I have ordered my second one.

Charliew

I did similar clean up on my 12mm pump. The lip was the main change I made. I used a dremel to smooth it out. I'll check the transition from the pump to the block and open it up if need be. Thanks for the tip. My only concern is, while these changes may be minor, they could and probably will lower oil pressure slightly. I am building a ej22T and plan on blocking the piston squirters off to hopefully raise the preasure. This way I hope to be able to get away with the decreased preasure and still benifit from the increased flow of the porting and larger gear. I also put one shim in the bypass.

Is there a reasonable location to modify one of these pumps for an oil cooler, or is that really risking the farm for something that can be got through a sandwich adapter?

Lastresort I would study the subie oil system a little more and then erase your question about adding a parallel oil circuit with a 1/2 inch line to the motor oiling system. I started to not answer but I couldn't stop myself. The way to learn is to study things and don't believe everything without studying it yourself or it will cost you.

Wrxzz you are only improving flow by reducing a restriction. The lip you removed, if it's the one I was talking about was before the bypass, so the pressure would stay the same. Making the hole larger where it goes in the block might make a small change but you would want to check true pressure when the motor is finished with a guage anyway. 10 lbs. per 1000rpms is what I think is the standard but thats just what I think. I wish I had squirters in every motor I've got. They put them there for a reason. Its better and less costly to learn from other peoples bad experiences than your own. I like homemadewrx's idea of studying pressure at several places at different rpms at the same time especially about 8000 rpm. Hopefully on a mulemotor on a dyno.

Charliew

Nice pictures. I needed those. I will shortly be purchasing a 12mm pump myself. Just need to work out a couple of other things first like selling the oem subaru rod bearings and getting the exhaust manifold I want. There are too many things I can nitpick about my build, spending too much damn money! Its great we got the oil cooler question answered, I was thinking about adding one but if you can keep tight clearances and a good flowing pump you really shouldnt need one. (except you auto-xers) A friend had one on his freshly built 1.6L 20v 60-1 Toyota Levin Turbo and popped her on the hwy because the cooler took debris :( I dont think ill be at all adding things to the oiling system on these motors, only making it easier for problems. Homemadewrx is all over these forums, guy knows a hell of a lot about subarus. Thumbs up brotha!

can someone please show me a pic of exactly whay you guys are opening up on the pump? Mine should be arriving in the next day or two.

Here's a couple of more pics
I guess I'll be doing some dremel work to smooth oil flow !!
http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump_comparison1s.jpg (http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump_comparison1.jpg)

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump_comparison2s.jpg (http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/Subaru_12mm_oil_pump_comparison2.jpg)

^^^ Arrows show areas that can benefit from porting
Charliew - good call on porting the pump's passages. Every little detail helps.

If you take the rotor cover off, you will find two other areas that could use some work. Look at the port that feeds oil to the rotors (intake/suction side of oil pump or left side of rotor housing). It is located under the rotor cover that is held onto the pump case with screws. It will have some places that look to be restricitve. Also look at the capture cavity at outlet of the rotor housing (exit/pressure side of the oil pump). It is located under the rotor cover on the right side. It will also need some work done here. My father and I have done some port work on his. I will post pictures of mine before port work and his (after portwork) later this week for your viewing pleasure.

Jonathon

got my pump today. As described. Thanks a ton. 8.5k, here I come!:devil:

Question as far as the porting goes. I see the areas you guys are talking about that could stand a dremel here and there... but... technically, would that not actually lower pressure? Make any passage under pressure bigger and the pressure drops. Is this not the case?

I did the porting last night. Here are some pics (click on pics for very large images) I also ported the block inlet port.

I noticed the outlet port to the oil filter is rather small. So that is one of the most restrictive segments of the oil supply system. Well, every little detail helps!

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/12mm_oil_pump_porting1s.jpg (http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/12mm_oil_pump_porting1.jpg) http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/12mm_oil_pump_porting2s.jpg (http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/12mm_oil_pump_porting2.jpg)

Nice! thanks for the pictures.

Make sure you have a good screwdriver. It should fit very well with the screws.
The screws that hold the rotor cover are in very tight. I used grinder to shape my screwdriver with a flatter tip and used the locking pliers and my weight pressing down while turning the screwdriver with the locking pliers.
Screws came off easily, if you don't have the proper screwdriver - buy one, or you'll mess up the screws and be unable to take off the cover.

dbl post :mad:

I did the same. Nice to see we agree on what areas needed work.

Make sure you have a good screwdriver. It should fit very well with the screws.
The screws that hold the rotor cover are in very tight. I used grinder to shape my screwdriver with a flatter tip and used the locking pliers and my weight pressing down while turning the screwdriver with the locking pliers.
Screws came off easily, if you don't have the proper screwdriver - buy one, or you'll mess up the screws and be unable to take off the cover.

same way I've always taken apart pumps...glad I'm not the only one who has used ghetto methods :banana:

the best I've used is I know have a screw driver with a through slot (for hanging up) and put another screw driver through it and use that as the moment arm.

Some quality screw drivers come with a hex section at the upper end of the shaft that will accept a common size wrench like a 1/2 or 9/16 which also works well for applying torque effectively. The other option is to buy a screw driver with a square shank and using a small cresent wrench on the shank. If you are using an old screw driver, you can find a nut that slides over the shank of the screw driver and have it welded to the shank to make your own special tool for this situation.

Done carefully the above suggestions are the best way to remove really tight screws. It also helps sometimes to use a bit of brake cleaner on the head of the screw slot to make sure it an the screw driver bit are oil free so they are less likely to cam out of the slot.

I also generally place the screw driver in the screw slot and give it a good solid tap with a small hammer to seat the screw driver tip in the slot, and to shock the threads a bit to help getting it loose.

The other side of the equation is to make sure they are equally tight when you put it all back together. A drop of locktite might be a good idea on reassembly!

Larry

Make sure you have a good screwdriver. It should fit very well with the screws.
The screws that hold the rotor cover are in very tight.


My oil pump rotor cover screws from a 22T with +200,000 kms were so loose, they were about to unscrew by them self!! :eek:

Do we have any measurement(s) avail to specifically note that what this porting and cleaning up has done? Oil psi increase or any flow increase from your modifications? Just looking for some hard evidence is all. FYI I do agree that there is good that comes from these modifications, just looking for the facts? Has anybody heard about the new cobb tuning pump?

Theoretically, this should reduce the required operating Hp by the oil pump. Less restriction = less pressure drop in oil circuit = less required Hp by pump. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I understand it.

Less pressure drop means the difference in pressure between the pump and the end of the oil circuit (bearings) will be less. The oil gallery restrictors at the head and the oil passages to the crank mains and at the bearings themselves will create the oil pressure in the block. More oil flow/capacity to the bearings is what we are looking for IMO.

Jonathon

If your porting helps system oil flow you will typically see lower oil temps.
If you have a before and after oil temp that is a good way to determine if you helped the system keep the engine alive.

Less work pushing oil through the passages results in higher flow and less waste heat.

Larry

lots of good discussion. On taking the screws out, a long time ago on a 69 kawasaki I found out that there is a tool that you hit with a hammer that holds different screwdriver tips, it is switchable from loostening to tightening. When you hit it, it cams in the direction you set it. It was the only way to work on two cycle motors and keep the screws tight and to get them loose. They are called impact drivers I use them on lots of things from car door hinges to oil pumps. Of course you would need to support the pump with a piece of pine wood or something. I like it because it jars the screw and also seats the tip in the screw. On porting I decided to open the capture area up at the beginning of the discharge port, there is lots of material in that part of the housing that can be altered. The 7mm pump I used for comparison had a larger capture cavity as it came out of the box. For some reason these larger pumps are slightly different around two bolt holes in the casting and one area is in the capture cavity.I truly believe these pumps can be improved 8 to 10 percent but thats just my guess and everyone knows what that is worth. I think the changes to the block will also be a good thing. I probably should study some more on #3 main. I know I will use a crossdrilled crank. I would like to study a block with squirters.

Charlie

^^^
Right - the pump rotors will need less power to circulate the oil thru the system. Cleaning up just the pump won't give you huge power demand drops.

Short of a dry sump system, in my opinionthe "ported" 12mm pump, a baffled oil pan (new Moroso under development), and an Accusump are the best oiling system setup we can get. So I'm installing a 3qt high-pressure Accusump as soon as my engine is broken in.

I had no idea those damn screws would be in so tight! It's the first time I open up an oil pump. All I had was some cheap Crafstman screwdriver and pliers.... so I made the best use of it. I did use the hammer to tap the screwdriver, then twist with the pliers. That worked great! However I dreaded camming the screws and screwing myself up out of the new pump!

Can you over oil the bearings with this 12mm pump and actually cause the heat to not transfer to the oil?

Japanparts is gonna be selling a lot of these pumps IMO.

engineerex - I just had a conversation with my dad the other day about that. We both agree that with the 12mm pump, some massaging of the oil passages/oil pump, an accusump, a larger oil pan/sump w/ swing gates, and (if you can afford to do it) cross drilled mains on the crank will provide the best oiling system short of a dry sump setup. If all the work is DIY (Maybe except for the crank), you will spend a fraction of the cost of a dry sump system.

I guess this is all a little off-the-subject, but if you look at the oil galleries that feed the mains, you will notice that the #3 main actually has a larger diameter than the number 2 and 4 mains. I can't remember if its any bigger than #1 or #5, but I think its the same size. This shows that the subaru engineers made an attempt to provide more flow to mains 1, 3, & 5. However, I think the #3 main passage could be opened a hair to improve flow to rods 2 & 3. For those that aren't aware, the #3 main unfortunately has to feed oil to two rods where #1 & #5 feed only one rod each.

Any comments?

This will greatly effect the "slinging" of oil and in turn creates small oiling issues... This is why the crank is an issue with these motors and needs drilling to suffice better oil slinging. Tighter clearances will also be better for the transfer of oil throughout the motor.

If you read what I wrote in the top paragraph, it states my opinion on a good oil system setup for a high rpm engine, i.e. crankshaft modifications. Below is just in addition.

The way I see it, the number 3 main needs more oil flow because it must feed two rods where mains 1 and 5 only feed one. Oil will travel the path of least resistance so why not increase the oil gallery feeding the number three main a few thousandths. If all three galleries are the same size, theoretically they will get the same flow, correct. But this is not what we want. We need more oil to pass to the 2 & 3 rod bearings than we send to mains 1 and 5.

I think the modified crank #3 main (two cross drilled passages like the Spec C crank) would be able to ingest more oil flow than the stock and not sling anymore oil than the other 5 mains. I would rather sling oil at 8 grand, than spin rod bearings. Just my 2 cents.

^^^
I didn't get a chance to inspect the oil galleries. But it makes sense that if you can provide more oil to #3 main, then that would help, altough it is hard to say if that would completely solve the oiling issues these engines have.
However, anything that's DIY would be worth a try. I'll consider doing this on the next build.... hopefully not anytime soon!

Yes, we have sold quite a few; your 2nd pump shipped to you today BTW ;)

Expect 10-15 days turnaround on these at the moment, we are holding a special price until the end of July 2007

Best

Graham Ware
Japanparts LLC


Japanparts is gonna be selling a lot of these pumps IMO.

engineerex - I just had a conversation with my dad the other day about that. We both agree that with the 12mm pump, some massaging of the oil passages/oil pump, an accusump, a larger oil pan/sump w/ swing gates, and (if you can afford to do it) cross drilled mains on the crank will provide the best oiling system short of a dry sump setup. If all the work is DIY (Maybe except for the crank), you will spend a fraction of the cost of a dry sump system.

I guess this is all a little off-the-subject, but if you look at the oil galleries that feed the mains, you will notice that the #3 main actually has a larger diameter than the number 2 and 4 mains. I can't remember if its any bigger than #1 or #5, but I think its the same size. This shows that the subaru engineers made an attempt to provide more flow to mains 1, 3, & 5. However, I think the #3 main passage could be opened a hair to improve flow to rods 2 & 3. For those that aren't aware, the #3 main unfortunately has to feed oil to two rods where #1 & #5 feed only one rod each.

Any comments?

Yes, we have sold quite a few; and we don't see any coming back: your 2nd pump shipped to you today BTW ;)

Expect 10-15 days turnaround on these at the moment, we are holding a special price for NASIOC members until the end of July 2007

Best

Graham Ware
Japanparts LLC


Japanparts is gonna be selling a lot of these pumps IMO.

engineerex - I just had a conversation with my dad the other day about that. We both agree that with the 12mm pump, some massaging of the oil passages/oil pump, an accusump, a larger oil pan/sump w/ swing gates, and (if you can afford to do it) cross drilled mains on the crank will provide the best oiling system short of a dry sump setup. If all the work is DIY (Maybe except for the crank), you will spend a fraction of the cost of a dry sump system.

I guess this is all a little off-the-subject, but if you look at the oil galleries that feed the mains, you will notice that the #3 main actually has a larger diameter than the number 2 and 4 mains. I can't remember if its any bigger than #1 or #5, but I think its the same size. This shows that the subaru engineers made an attempt to provide more flow to mains 1, 3, & 5. However, I think the #3 main passage could be opened a hair to improve flow to rods 2 & 3. For those that aren't aware, the #3 main unfortunately has to feed oil to two rods where #1 & #5 feed only one rod each.

Any comments?

nice work!!

Japanparts - My dad ordered the second pump, charliew; not me. contact him.

Japanparts - My dad ordered the second pump, charliew; not me. contact him.

My Bad; I've emailed Mr. Wittmer Sr. and also posted his tracking number on the Group Buy forum for him too, Pump is about 2-3 days away from his door now

Very best

Graham Ware
Japanparts LLC

engineerex - I just had a conversation with my dad the other day about that. We both agree that with the 12mm pump, some massaging of the oil passages/oil pump, an accusump, a larger oil pan/sump w/ swing gates, and (if you can afford to do it) cross drilled mains on the crank will provide the best oiling system short of a dry sump setup. If all the work is DIY (Maybe except for the crank), you will spend a fraction of the cost of a dry sump system.


A bit off topic, but since we mentioned baffling:
So..... I decided to add a "ghetto-type" oil pan baffling....

Large pic if you click:
http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/oil_pan_ghetto_baffles2.jpg (http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/oil_pan_ghetto_baffles1.jpg)


and conducted some unscientific testing :D

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/oil_pan_baffles4.mpg
http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/oil_pan_baffles3.mpg

If someone actually used the 12mm oil pump with the normal oil pan, please let us know! I'm still wondering if it will drain empty the oil pan.

I plan to use the 12mm oil pump with double crossed drill crank and normal oil pan, but I'm a few months from my build completion.

Thanks

If someone actually used the 12mm oil pump with the normal oil pan, please let us know! I'm still wondering if it will drain empty the oil pan.

IF the bigger flow pump does indeed place more oil in the galleys at any point in time, you could always run an extra qt or so... nothing wrong with that approach. in fact there are some benefits!

basically i have arrived at my "normal" oil level via blowby and burnoff. you'll find a level at which consumption rate increases/decreases very quickly. i stay just under the "rapid consumption" increase. according to the dipstick, it's about a half-qt low. if i add the extra half qt, it burns up/blows by in ~500miles. after that, i can go ~1k5 miles before i notice additional consumption.

i would keep track of the same thing if/when i put a 12mm pump on: overfill it slightly, and as it drops down the engine will tell you when there's the right amount of oil by eating/burning it less rapidly.

jm2c
ken

Can you over oil the bearings with this 12mm pump and actually cause the heat to not transfer to the oil?


I have heard the term "washing out the bearings before, is that what you are speaking of?

I would think it would be easy for Subaru to install the 12mm pump on our motors if it was necessary.

I have heard the term "washing out the bearings before, is that what you are speaking of?

I would think it would be easy for Subaru to install the 12mm pump on our motors if it was necessary.

Well, I have heard that term and i do believe that is what I am asking about. After all, if you over oil the bearings, I would imagine (just a guess) that it would be not beneficial to some part of the system. (whichever part that may be)?

maybe I missd it,


Does anyone know what pump the 2.0l spec c JDM engine has on it? 10mm or 12mm?

This information is very appropriate for me because I am in the middle of a 2.2l stroker build. I need to consider how the slightly increased displacement combined with a HKS oil cooler and cross drilled crank will affect my oil volume and pressure requirements. Will the stock #10 oil pump, with 1 shim, suffice?

IF the bigger flow pump does indeed place more oil in the galleys at any point in time, you could always run an extra qt or so... nothing wrong with that approach. in fact there are some benefits!

basically i have arrived at my "normal" oil level via blowby and burnoff. you'll find a level at which consumption rate increases/decreases very quickly. i stay just under the "rapid consumption" increase. according to the dipstick, it's about a half-qt low. if i add the extra half qt, it burns up/blows by in ~500miles. after that, i can go ~1k5 miles before i notice additional consumption.

i would keep track of the same thing if/when i put a 12mm pump on: overfill it slightly, and as it drops down the engine will tell you when there's the right amount of oil by eating/burning it less rapidly.

jm2c
ken

I have found the same thing, but on the track it only takes a couple laps to get the oil down to the 1/2-1/4 full mark on the dip stick. I run an Accusump for peace of mind, and am looking into an air oil seporator that drains back into the block.

If someone actually used the 12mm oil pump with the normal oil pan, please let us know! I'm still wondering if it will drain empty the oil pan.

I plan to use the 12mm oil pump with double crossed drill crank and normal oil pan, but I'm a few months from my build completion.

Thanks

Axis crank?

I've been using the 12mm pump with a dbl-drilled crank for about 1.5 months now. Close 4k miles on the built motor.

So far no issues with draining empty the oil pan.

One thing I did notice:

The pressure relief spring of the 12mm oil pump has about 1.5mm shorter free lenght than the 10mm's. This is based on measuring 1 spring from 1 12mm and 10mm oil pumps. It is possible that this difference in lenghts is within factory specs.

One thing to keep in mind is that the washer/shims used for increasing the relief pressure point are about 1.5mm in thickness. You may want to consider using 3 or 4 washer-shims. The double cross-drilled cranks allow more oil flow thru the crank-to-mains orifices and consequently the oil pressure will be lower. Additionally, the clearances on built motors are larger and that "adds" to the decrease in oil pressure one may see in these built motors.

So if you're installing this pump, it'd be great if you compared the spring lenght against the 10mm version and post your measurements here.
Here's a pic (not so good - taken w/ cell phone) of the 2 springs.

http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/12mm_oil_pump_relief_spring.jpg

whoopsss

By my calculations the sti runs the oil higher in the pan compared to the wrx. The dip stick tube is identical in length. I switched the sticks and the sti low hole about matches the high hole in the wrx stick. Which means the wrx when on the low mark is really two quarts low compared to the sti full oil level. This may be why the owners manual says the sti holds more oil when it really means you could run more oil in the wrx and not be any higher up in the pan than the sti. Subaru may have been trying to offset the smaller bottom on the sti pan or they in fact knew the motors would blow out the first 1/2 quart. I've never checked wittmer 25's sti oil level and found it still full.

Just my observations.

Charliew

maybe I missd it,


Does anyone know what pump the 2.0l spec c JDM engine has on it? 10mm or 12mm?

10mm in the single AVCS, and 12mms on the dual AVCS new motors (I think just this last year).

Europe also has the 12mm pump for the STI spec....

And or course the new 2008 US STI has the 11mm pump.

Jeff Sponaugle

By my calculations the sti runs the oil higher in the pan compared to the wrx. The dip stick tube is identical in length. I switched the sticks and the sti low hole about matches the high hole in the wrx stick. Which means the wrx when on the low mark is really two quarts low compared to the sti full oil level. This may be why the owners manual says the s