Thinking about getting the add-on for my deck since I hear advertisements on it all the time from the local FM stations while I'm driving around.

If anyone has it care to comment...

Not many people have it at this point.

Pros

Closest thing to CD quality in a non CD format
Free (minus tuner)
Get to still hear your local personalities

Cons

Expensive for the units ($250...down from the original $400),
The content is still the same garbage you have on regular FM radio (edited songs, the same 20 songs all day long, etc..).
Still has commercials
Not many stations are doing HD yet...very expensive for them to set up
The extra #2 #3 channels for HD are not really running except in very select areas and the content is even worse on them then on the regular channel

Since you're from Philly we only have 13 channels this point that are HD...and most of them are the ones that used to be great and then have been turned into crap due to all the extra regulations. God...I remember when WYSP was decent.

Other options...get either Sirius or XM (I vastly prefer Sirius myself...four accounts to date). National coverage makes it great for trips as you won't have to hunt down new stations, plus no content editing (except Bubba the Love Sponge now and then when he goes overboard haha). The SQ isn't as good as they don't pump the same bandwidth for each channel, but with all the other pros it is so much better. I love sat. radio for all the different talk/news channels it has as well.

I've had sat. radio now for seven years or so and I've had one FM station programmed on all my cars since then...and it's called the FM modulated station for the vehicles I had to run an external unit for Sirius in :)

I believe there is some HD Radio "alliance" that keeps HD Radio commercial free for a couple years.

I have never heard that it will be commercial free. If it was that would be a huge selling point and I have yet to see any advertisement saying that. I also don't see how they can be commercial free and stay in business simply because of the fact they have no revenue coming in that way.

Edit- I just looked at the official site for HD Radio and there is no mention anywhere about it being commercial free. It might be on HD2 or HD3, but again, no verification.

Clear Channel, the nations largest monopoly in radio, has been converting their largest stations in each region to the HD radio format.

I woudn't expect your local PBS to jump in on it. But I do expect many of the larger more popular stations to move on to it if they have not done so already.

Is there an HD radio coverage map or something?

If you go to www.hdradio.com it will let you choose a location that will then display all available HD stations in your area.

As teiva-boy said Clear Channel (and Infinity Broadcasting) are ramping up their top performing stations. The lesser listened to ones though are still not really available.

I've been considering picking up a tuner, but I just can't see myself listening to regular radio again...

HD radio is the terrestrial (FM) radio's pathetic attempt to compete with the satelite radio market. Basically, its high quality, censored, commercial infested radio at a price. By far, my preference is Sirius satelite. Without question, nothing is better than satelite radio.

Just as a point of reference:

There are about 13,000 Radio Stations in the US. This includes, Commercial, Non-Com, Eductational, Low Powers, everything.

Of those 13k, 3k make up about 95% of the listening audience (200M daily listeners based on Arbitron).

Of those 3k, to date, ~1200 have converted to HD, and the other 1800 will convert by 12/08.

The HD Radio Alliance has stated several times, that the HD2's / 3's will be commercial free until at LEAST 1/08, and at that time, based on saturation, they will determine how they want to handle them, whether they will keep them commercial free for another year, add commercials, do 'sponsorships' like the NPR stations, or perhaps some kind of ad campaign we have yet to encounter.

At CES HD Radio showed traffic (100x faster than RDS traffic), Electronic Program Guide, and a form of Store and Replay (non-removable media).

A week ago last friday, BMW had a press release that every new BMW will be available in march with HD Radio. It has been stated many times, in many publications that over the next few years, 49 Models of vehicle's representing 9 brands will be available with HD Radio either standard or as an option.

There is still alot of 'testing' going on with the content on the HD2 / 3's, if you dont have something in your market that you like, and that you think would do well, you should just send an email to some of the station managers, and make your case, perhaps you will be able to make an impact on what they play.

Here in Detroit, WRIF has an awesome HD2, RIff2. It's a lot of Indie Rock, and local bands. It's cool because it's bands that you will hear about playing bars / clubs in the area any given weeekend. They also play every major Detroit Metro band / group (Kid Rock, Eminem, Grand Funk Railroad, Supremes, etc).

HD radio is the terrestrial (FM) radio's pathetic attempt to compete with the satelite radio market. Basically, its high quality, censored, commercial infested radio at a price. By far, my preference is Sirius satelite. Without question, nothing is better than satelite radio.

Terrestrial radio's attempt to compete with satelite?

Satelite Radio (combined) = <30M listeners
Terrestrial Radio = >200M Listeners that average 19 hours per week.

Both Satelite companies have adjusted their Q4 renewal / sign up numbers by 500k or more... how much longer will their investors stand for them losing money?

Terrestrial radio's attempt to compete with satelite?

Satelite Radio (combined) = <30M listeners
Terrestrial Radio = >200M Listeners that average 19 hours per week.

Both Satelite companies have adjusted their Q4 renewal / sign up numbers by 500k or more... how much longer will their investors stand for them losing money?

Did you just compare a product that's been around for almost 100 years to one that is less than a decade and think that it's surprising that more people listen to the older product still, especially when you have to do nothing to your car to use it?

Let's also consider the market for sat. radio over it's time frame. Only until the last few years has it been offered as an option in vehicles...approximately two years ago. Before that the only way of getting it was replacing your factory HU, with an aftermarket, then buying a tuner. Factory radios have had radio tuners for how long???? Now, with vehicles that are sat. radio ready you still have to pay for the tuner, which puts some people off. Now, with that being said the sat. radio market is making more and more revenue each quarter, so investers are unlikely to pull out because they finally will make back what they have put in these last few years. If subscription rates were falling then I can understand that statement, but they aren't. In fact...unless my memory is faulty Sirius has stated numerous times that they don't expect to be in the black until 2009 or 2010. Investers I'm sure have been well aware of this.

HD Radio does not have close to the number of supporters that you are alluding to in the country. In one post you talk about HD radio and in the next you talk about standard radio and it appears you are trying to use the numbers for both versions like there are 200 million listeners of HD radio right now.

Out of curiosity who do you work for? I've noticed that every post you've ever done in regards to either sat. radio or HD radio is very precise with statistics and information always favoring HD radio, which leads me to believe you either work for a radio company/media corporation, or work for some HD Radio based business.

Also, if HD radio, and terrestrial radio are so safe and satellite radio is going to out of business why have companies like Clear Channel changed their advertising campaigns in the last year or so to clearly combat the satellite radio business?

I'm not going to combat you much more on this because you obviously have access to information that I don't, so I don't feel like continuing to go through your posts with a fine tooth comb to find inconsistencies...it's not worth the effort.

I am not 'doing battle' I am merely pointing out WRONG information being given about HD Radio. Does it really matter WHO I'm employed by? If so, why?

It doesnt matter what any of us 'think', as HD Radio (IBOC) has been declared the 'standard' by the FCC for digital AM / FM terrestrial broadcast radio in the US, Brazil, Phillipines, and is being tested in about 20 other countries.

HD Radio does not have close to the number of supporters that you are alluding to in the country. In one post you talk about HD radio and in the next you talk about standard radio and it appears you are trying to use the numbers for both versions like there are 200 million listeners of HD radio right now.

You doubt that the 11 largest broadcasters (making up about 90% of the listening audience of AM / FM) are behind HD Radio? Why then would they put $200M+ into marketing it? Also, I use the BASE number of terrestrial stations, and also show how many are acutally converted to HD and those that are going to convert (this information is readily available in Radio World magazine).


Also, if HD radio, and terrestrial radio are so safe and satellite radio is going to out of business why have companies like Clear Channel changed their advertising campaigns in the last year or so to clearly combat the satellite radio business?

I never said it was 'going out of buisness', just that investors are not going to be happy if they continue to lose billions per year.

Here is an interesting article that came out of CES this year. (http://www.forbes.com/markets/2007/01/12/xm-satellite-radio-markets-equity-cx_mk_0112markets08.html)


Satellite radio and HD Radio are very COMPLIMENTARY technologies. There are MANY MANY people that will not pay for content that they can get for free (with a few minutes of commercials per hour) on their standard tuner.

In the listening areas of the largest 50 markets in the US, HD Radio is a great option. If you are traveling around the country, I'd highly recommend satellite radio. I recently drove from Detroit to Dallas, and would have gone nuts without Sirius and my 80Gb iPod.

Glad you're not trying to have an internet e-thug war here ha, but I don't see anyone putting out wrong information. If you look at my original posts they have the same information that you posted up in your responses, none of which is WRONG. I don't consider 13 channels, which only have HD1/HD2 operational resulting in 26 channels...versus 100+ on both Sirius/XM, in a major area such as where myself and the OP are located as big support of HD at this time, which is exactly what I said. Also, the official site of HD Radio never mentions any commercial free programming on HD2/HD3, which is why I said there is no verification.

I also put out the pros/cons of HD in a reasonable manor. Being from the OP's area I can comment on the quality of the radio stations...or lack there of. The only difference between HD and standard is obviously better quality sound and the Extra two channels per band. The primary band is still the same stuff as regular broadcasts...just sounds better.

Also, you took what I meant as supporters as incorrect...mostly because of my own fault. I should have said users...that was where I was going. Of the 200 million users of regular radio how many actually have/use HD radio? That is a number that should be thrown around in my opinion, because it is more realistic of what you are trying to show that's all.

As for "a few minutes of commercials per hour" an understatement. I have not heard a single channel play less than 15 minutes to 20 minutes per hour when I'm stuck out of town for work in rental vehicles.

Also, the content between HD and sat. is VERY different. You can't make a comparison that the difference is that one is a fee based service and the other isn't, which is how I have been taking your posts. If this is not what you were trying to say then, please let me know.

And yes, it does make a difference of who you work for because you are relaying information that seems to be a bit more than a standard consumer has access to, such as myself. In fact it reads more like a press release than anything. If you have connections to HD Radio (or don't) I think you should state that so we can see where you are coming from that's all. It may make people such as myself actually respect your posts more if I know you're working for a company tied to it and therefore can see it as information from one side of the equation, or as an actual consumer who has firsthand experience instead of the usual "HD is superior for so many reasons" that your posts seem to come off as without actually comparing the technologies as a consumer like myself.

I'm sorry, but HD radio is crap rebadged as digital. It's still crap with or without the static :)

The merger is old news. They have been saying it for over a year, and it's always XM that makes the announcement...haven't heard Sirius make a peep about it.

Now, the bigger question is how much of XM does Clear Channel own? It's public knowledge they are an investor...so I wonder what they would pull if a merger went through? Great way to kill the only competition that's surfaced to the radio moguls.

Oh, in case anybody doesn't know why XM had to stop advertising as commercial free music, was because Clear Channel owns four channels, and introduced commercials on those channels. So the idea that satellite radio is gong to continue to add commercials looks to be the case more and more because of terrestrial radio influence over their programming abilities...great way to hurt the competition...from inside it.

I believe there is some HD Radio "alliance" that keeps HD Radio commercial free for a couple years.
Your local stations will never give up their ad money. It is still and allways will br inferior to satellite radio services.

HD signal has less range than the analog signal, though the radio will switch back and forth automatically. You still have the same stupid, repetive playlists bought and paid for by the music companies. Still have the Ads on the top and bottom of the hour for 10 to 20 minutes. And the idiot DJs that think they are funny and unique.

with satellite radio you don't have to change stations due to signal loss, playlists are not as repetive, just a few sweepers for the station id on the music channels. Still have idiot DJs though.

One local Station where I live is HD and still has commercials.WVAQ

Oh, in case anybody doesn't know why XM had to stop advertising as commercial free music, was because Clear Channel owns four channels, and introduced commercials on those channels. So the idea that satellite radio is gong to continue to add commercials looks to be the case more and more because of terrestrial radio influence over their programming abilities...great way to hurt the competition...from inside it.

The stations that have commercials are actual terrestial stations simucasted on XM, and they have allways been there since I subscribed to it in may 2002. One is a county station from nashville and there is a station from LA, the other two I am not sure cause I don't listen to those stations. All the rest of the stations are commercial free. Though they have been starting to add DJs to the stations, which I don't really care for.

The merger is old news. They have been saying it for over a year, and it's always XM that makes the announcement...haven't heard Sirius make a peep about it.

Now, the bigger question is how much of XM does Clear Channel own? It's public knowledge they are an investor...so I wonder what they would pull if a merger went through? Great way to kill the only competition that's surfaced to the radio moguls.

Wrong Mel (killer of radio) Carmizan(sp) is making the noises about merging.

Wrong Mel (killer of radio) Carmizan(sp) is making the noises about merging.

Ah, good call on this. Every article going back over the last year has basically been something along the lines of "XM is wishing to merge with Sirius". etc...not the other way around.

As for the commercials on the four XM channels...Clear Channel gained control of them back in '98 in a deal to help get XM out ahead of Sirius (not that they needed to as Sirius couldn't put up a satellite without crashing it it seemed). They've been in litigation up until this past May where XM finally lost. So yes, you're right you've been hearing commercials since '02, but only recently have they had to change their advertising from Commercial Free Music, to Mostly Commercial Free Music...

Then why was the only person from either company saying anything last year was Mel (place ad here) Carmizan.

The news media are a bunch of half truth speculators. They have no idea what the truth is, but I'll be damned if they do not run the story anyways.

BTW do you know that sirius pads their number of subcribers by counting the radios sitting in unpurchased cars as subcribers.

BTW do you know that sirius pads their number of subcribers by counting the radios sitting in unpurchased cars as subcribers.

Yup, just like XM ;) where do you think they got the idea from haha.

I don't mind the advertising of Fm, plus I don't really drive all that much to justify a satellite monthly charge, I also hate extra monthly fees I don't need...

I guess I'm trying to justify HD radio... Do they have the receivers set up in audio stores to test the stations out and what not? I haven't looked in an audio shop in years... lol

Some shops have them outfitted. Honestly...if you don't drive that much it's not worth the money for either at this point. In a few years I'm sure HD radio tuners will be standard with even aftermarket decks so just wait. Unless you have terrible static on your stations you listen to now I wouldn't worry about it.

Check out Tweeter as I'm sure they have them set up with HD. Are you in Philly or around it?

Some shops have them outfitted. Honestly...if you don't drive that much it's not worth the money for either at this point. In a few years I'm sure HD radio tuners will be standard with even aftermarket decks so just wait. Unless you have terrible static on your stations you listen to now I wouldn't worry about it.

Check out Tweeter as I'm sure they have them set up with HD. Are you in Philly or around it?

Well the deck I have was quite a bit and I'm not planning on upgrading it anytime soon. The tuner can be had for $180 which while not incredibly cheap isn't too expensive either...

I'll have to check it out, I don't even think there are any tweeters left in Philly, lol...

I'm in NE Philly...

Does anyone know how Sirius compares to XM?

I bought the XM equipment for my XM ready Alpine in the last car and subscribed. After 10 minutes of listening to it,...I called them back up and cancelled my subscription. It had very poor sound quality. Very dull up top..

XM WAS NOT NEARLY AS GOOD SOUNDING AS FM. Not even close.

1. First off they compress the hell out of the music.

2. Then they cut out everything they think the human ear can't hear.

3. Then they chop off all the music over like 12,500 hz.

4. Then the monuralize it, and add a second smaller signal to re-introduce some channel differences, to simulate real stereo.

(These last 3 technologies developed by Sony I think)

They do all of this to get the signal down to 48 khz,....so they can stream it in real time over dial-up.


Unless the bandwidth of Sirius is at least 10 X bigger (458?), it won't make it into my car.

My Hummer H3 came with XM. (You can't opt out). It looses signal under bridges, in carwashes,...and even while driving down some sunken freeways (like I-696 here in Sterling Heights / Detroit area). What a joke.

The programming of XM wasn't great either. They have 4-5 new music channels, but they all play the same 10 songs over and over. We have at least one station here in the metro Detroit area that has no-repeat work weeks. Thats's 40 hours a week with no repeats. That's a lot more varety than all the Rock/Pop stations on XM combined I'm guessing.

The only thing I ever listened to (in the H3 before the mandatory subscription ran out) was the 2 comedy channels (151 and 153). But then after a week you start hearing the same stuff again and that's the end of that.

To say satelite radio is superior to FM is to be smoking some serious crack. I haven't tried Sirius however. Maybe it is 10 times better than XM.

XM compresses their channels even more than Sirius. They both do it, but at least Sirius varies which channels are compressed (i.e. the talk channels are much more compressed than the music channels). I've heard rumors that they are looking at bumping up the bandwidth somehow to help with this issue, but it's all conjecture at this point.

In terms of SQ if you can fight through the FM static then yeah, FM is superior to sat. radio from both companies. But where I am I can't get ANY channel without static to the point that it's super annoying, and I can't take the horrible programming and commercials on regular radio. I only listen to Sirius music channels here and there...more towards the news/talk stations personally. My main reason for getting sat. radio though is that with my job I have to do lots of traveling and if I had to hunt for stations in a 6 state trip I'd just listen to the engine.

It's like I said back in post #2, SQ on FM and HD FM is much better than sat. radio, but I'm more interested in content and lack of commercials...my SQ comes from the best source....CDs ;)

As for programming...XM is horrendous compared to Sirius. A friend of mine has XM and I was forced to listen to it for a five hour trip and the songs repeated almost as much as regular radio. On Sirius I might hear the same song twice in a 7/8 hour trip, but that's when I flip to one of the other genres.

Well, scratch that off my wish list. :lol:

I've got a home HD tuner and in the Boston market there is quite a bit of unique, ad-free content on the side channels of stations on-board w/ HD. I am debating on whether or not I am keeping my current ride. If I do, or on the next one I get, I will definitely put in an HD head unit.

I wonder if that will still be the case in '08 when they reevaluate the free HD2/HD3 channels. I have a feeling that they won't be commercial free...probably reduced from the primary channel but still have at least 10 minutes an hour or so.

I wonder if that will still be the case in '08 when they reevaluate the free HD2/HD3 channels. I have a feeling that they won't be commercial free...probably reduced from the primary channel but still have at least 10 minutes an hour or so.

They will absolutely monetize it. That is the whole point. For now, there aren't any commercials and that makes it compelling. Of course there is the whole WIMAX thing that really makes it interesting in a few years.

I'm not sure if this was stated, but Sirius has their highest quality compression as 64 kbps. It's pretty ugly looking, but when I had Sirius it sounded fine. It was only a stock system though.

One key thing I had noticed between XM and Sirius is playlist, and channel selection.

Sirius had an extremely good playlist on every channel (except the pop ones), which as stated, was widely varied and exposed me to many great bands that I probably would not have heard about otherwise.

XM had the channel selection over Sirius. They had channels that hit the 'inbetween' music, such as industrial music channel. Under each genre there were more channels specializing in more music, BUT, as stated, repetitiveness hurt the bill. I did not take notice to sound quality.

I haven't had Sirius for over a year now, but when I renew, I'll definitely go Sirius. I loved it and It'll be the last thing I get for my system.

~Levi

They will absolutely monetize it. That is the whole point. For now, there aren't any commercials and that makes it compelling. Of course there is the whole WIMAX thing that really makes it interesting in a few years.

WIMAX? Care to elaborate?

HD Radio is not worth the investment.

With HD, you get a handful of stations programmed by Clear Channel and CBS (shallow playlists with 22 minutes of commercials an hour). Once you drive away from a metropolitan area, you no longer have service.

Satellite offers 170+ channels of programming with VERY robust reception from coast to coast. You can drive from San Francisco to New York without changing the station. Both services offer 69 completely commercial-free music channels, and uncensored talk radio.

Both satellite radio and HD Radio offer absolutely ATROCIOUS sound quality. Satellite streams at low bitrates, and HD Radio and Sirius "process" their audio just like FM stations (compression/clipping/bass boosting).

WIMAX? Care to elaborate?

In-car wifi via long distance transmission.

You will be able to stream internet radio.

You can drive from San Francisco to New York without changing the station.

I do that so often.........

:rolleyes:

HD Radio is not worth the investment.

With HD, you get a handful of stations programmed by Clear Channel and CBS (shallow playlists with 22 minutes of commercials an hour). Once you drive away from a metropolitan area, you no longer have service.

Satellite offers 170+ channels of programming with VERY robust reception from coast to coast. Both services offer 69 completely commercial-free music channels, and uncensored talk radio.

Both satellite radio and HD Radio offer absolutely ATROCIOUS sound quality. Satellite streams at low bitrates, and HD Radio and Sirius "process" their audio just like FM stations (compression/clipping/bass boosting).

Have you actually listened to anything on any HD side channel? There are stations running internet radio on them, SOMA-FM (http://www.somafm.com) being one of them.

Satellite & HD are atrocious compared to what? How about standard broadcast FM? Are you saying they are atrocious to that?

Satellite & HD are atrocious compared to what? How about standard broadcast FM? Are you saying they are atrocious to that?
It doesn't need to be compared to anything... the sound quality is just terrible. If I had to compare, I'd say that satellite radio and most HD Radio channels sound worse than properly processed FM radio.

Don't fall for the sound quality marketing hype. Most satellite radio channels broadcast at 32 kbps. Most HD Radio stations broadcast at 48 kbps.

In-car wifi via long distance transmission.

You will be able to stream internet radio.

Ah good stuff.

It doesn't need to be compared to anything... the sound quality is just terrible. If I had to compare, I'd say that satellite radio and most HD Radio channels sound worse than properly processed FM radio.

Don't fall for the sound quality marketing hype. Most satellite radio channels broadcast at 32 kbps. Most HD Radio stations broadcast at 48 kbps.

My ears have fallen for marketing hype of HD.

:rolleyes:

I love XM for road trips so i can keep the same uncensored channel from coast co coast

It seems like a nice choice if there are stations in your area. I live in New Hampshire, and we have the following stations on HD:
NPR (FM)
NPR (FM - yes, 2 NPR stations)
Christmas Music (FM)
Family Music (AM)

If I were in Boston or CT, there would be more choices. Too bad NH radio sucks! Long live Sirius.

HD radio sounds like an aweful lot of crap to put up with. Besides I wont listen to anything run by the s***heads at clear channel or cbs. I agree, Long Live Sirius! I've had it for over a year and i will never go back to regular radio. Regular radio is b.s. and this HD nonsense sounds no better. I will never go back to commercial filled, censored radio. Plus both satelite companies have their own internet players so you're not forced to just listen to it in the car.