I am about to install the ssic fmic (ebay)and am concerned about the safety issues of removing the front OEM bumper beam. Has anyone modified it(cutout for the IC) to accomodate the fmic? Pics would be great.Thanks.

i thought the SSAC FMIC came with a replacement beam?

The oem bumper beam doesn't do squat in a crash over 5mph anyway...

you cant be serious? it definately will save the front of the motor by distributing the impact to the frame rails,yes the kit includes an aluminum beam ,but its flimsly compared to the oem unit

it's better than nothing

Hey think of it as weight reduction....... i agree with you, the replacement beam is not a very good replacement but it does help a little. You can cut up your OEM peice but by the time that you finish cutting all the places that you need to cut, you will have nothing left of the beam.

The oem bumper beam doesn't do squat in a crash over 5mph anyway...

Are you serious? This is exactly why I went TMIC.

It's a 5mph bumper no? :confused:

Dude, that thing (stock beam) deflects so much energy. I can only imagine it's place in keeping the frame rails connected. I think the only reason for an aftermarket bumper beam, is to have a way to mount the bumper cover. Oh yeah, and at 5mph my TMIC won't get a bruise and won't crush any piping. Look, this is why we have chocolate and vanilla. People like different flavors, yes? In my mind, I think the safety features of a stock bumper beam outway the advantages of a FMIC. Just my .02

Cheers,
Rexfan

You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think this is a "replacement bumpr beam".

It is a support for the fmic. that's it. You remove a large piece of steel in the front of your car to install one of these. It is IMO, that the OEM piece will help in greater than 5mph crashes...that thing is heavy and tack welded all over the place.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/modaddict/IMG_0473.jpg

^^^^ + 123456789

You will think I am nuts, and I may be a little. Here is a picture of my car a few years ago, ready to intsall the TXS FMIC. When I realized that the aluminum bumper beam was replacing my stock beam, I sold the brand new FMIC and put my car back together, with my TXS TMIC.

http://www.leebt.smugmug.com/photos/8469890-M.jpg

^^ Not nuts, just smart. A large TMIC with a propperly wrapped turbo and exhaust, with the propper splitter will be just as effective as a FMIC

IMO
JAy-R

If you're going to hack up the oem beam for a front mount, be prepared, it is a long job and it's quite a pain. And by the end of the day not much of it will be going back on the car(really just the parts that go around the fog light housings), a scrap metal guy will love you though :D

I do believe that the oem beam will help a lot in a collision though well above 5 mph, i think that rating is more for the foam part in front of the beam. Also I'm not saying if you plow into a brick wall at 50 mph your engine will be fine, but I think it will distribute the force of the impact in a way that makes it safer and more "comfortable"(for lack of a better word) for the passengers.

I do however disagree with a tmic being equal to a fmic as far as performance, but that depends on what turbo and other mods you have.
IMHO


-Kyle

The oem bumper beam doesn't do squat in a crash over 5mph anyway...

:rolleyes: This dude has no idea what he is talking about. I fix cars for a living... and your bumper reinforcement beam can take a hell of a wack and absorbe a lot of energy. I have seen 50mph crashes into a pole that didn't break the beam. Generally, when you hit something, your frame rails bend way easier than than the bumper beam. Also, note, your airbag sensors are mounted on the frame rail right behind where the bumper beam mounts. If you are in a wreck and hit something dead center... your airbags may not deploy as they should. Likewise, if you bump something with the end of your frame rail, your airbags may well be more sensitive due to the fact that there is less metal to absorbe the impact. I saw the aftermath of a wrecked STI that had removed its beam for a FMIC. What would have otherwise required a bumper and maybe a hood to fix, ended up totaling the car because there was a major structural piece missing. In my opinion, one should cut the factory beam, and weld in some .25" steel plate to maintain it's strength. It is definatly not the easy way to do it, but it is the right way to do it. That piece of aluminum is not going to do anything for you in a crash. It's your car, it's your time, it's your $$ and it's your life. Do with them all as you wish...

My .02

It's a 5mph bumper no? :confused:

That's like saying... "it's a 5mph frame rail no?" The plastic bumper and foam backing are rated at 5mph... meaning they can take a shopping cart going 5mph without getting destroyed. Your bumper beam is very strong.

Not that it is as sturdy as the stock bumper beam, but im sure that the intercooler itself would dissipate alot of energy in a crash. Yes im sure the car itself will sustain more damage from a frontal impact with an intercooler in place of a bumper beam, but i highly doubt that it would put the safety of the driver and passangers at a measureably higher risk of injury.

:rolleyes: This dude has no idea what he is talking about. I fix cars for a living... and your bumper reinforcement beam can take a hell of a wack and absorbe a lot of energy. I have seen 50mph crashes into a pole that didn't break the beam. Generally, when you hit something, your frame rails bend way easier than than the bumper beam. Also, note, your airbag sensors are mounted on the frame rail right behind where the bumper beam mounts. If you are in a wreck and hit something dead center... your airbags may not deploy as they should. Likewise, if you bump something with the end of your frame rail, your airbags may well be more sensitive due to the fact that there is less metal to absorbe the impact. I saw the aftermath of a wrecked STI that had removed its beam for a FMIC. What would have otherwise required a bumper and maybe a hood to fix, ended up totaling the car because there was a major structural piece missing. In my opinion, one should cut the factory beam, and weld in some .25" steel plate to maintain it's strength. It is definatly not the easy way to do it, but it is the right way to do it. That piece of aluminum is not going to do anything for you in a crash. It's your car, it's your time, it's your $$ and it's your life. Do with them all as you wish...

My .02

I totally see what you are saying, I stand corrected. I guess I took the " tested " data way too seriously.

Not that it is as sturdy as the stock bumper beam, but im sure that the intercooler itself would dissipate alot of energy in a crash. Yes im sure the car itself will sustain more damage from a frontal impact with an intercooler in place of a bumper beam, but i highly doubt that it would put the safety of the driver and passangers at a measureably higher risk of injury.

At 30mph or less... I might buy that. At 55/60mph you think thin aluminum is going to be as strong as thick steel? Lol. Your silly. Another factor I forgot to mention ... modern vehicle construction utilizes "crumple zones," or areas where the car is supposed to bend, to absorbe/slow impact as well as distribute the impact through more material. If you remove a connecting portion of the frame rails ... more of the force is going to be focused in that one spot and transferred destructively to other areas of the vehicle... like the floorboard of the vehicle. If the main rails bend easier... the K frame attached to them is also going to be compromised, meaning the wheel will be more likely to come visit the passenger compartment if you hit a curb or the like. Too bad i'm not on Subaru's board. I would talk them into doing some crash tests with FMIC's.

At 30mph or less... I might buy that. At 55/60mph you think thin aluminum is going to be as strong as thick steel?

pft no duh, steel is totally stronger than aluminum whens its traveling over 30mph.


lol sorry to be an a-hole but that statement was funny to me. Just because you are removing the bumper beam doesnt mean you automatically transfer all fronatal impacr energy into human flesh. You have to remeber evergy will be absorbed in many other alternative places.

Think of it from this point of view, there is a very good chance the original Japanese bumper beam has been thoroughly engineered and tested to be as useful in a crash as possible. So perhaps the USDM version's main goal wasnt to save yankees lives cuz the japanese could care less?

The topic of safety loss with the removal of the bumper beam is not a debateable topic.

I think Injen does the Phantom which keeps the stock beam. Also, custom setups with a certain size intercooler could work just as well.

It seems to me like fabbing a whole new beam would be easier than cutting the old one and fabbing around it. Assuming you have the ability of course. But then again, if you have those abilities, you could just fab all the pipes yourself and get a core that would use the stock beam in it's entirety.


my .02


-Kyle

where do you put the blow off on a FMIC picture would help thanks yall

If you are in a wreck and hit something dead center... your airbags may not deploy as they should. Likewise, if you bump something with the end of your frame rail, your airbags may well be more sensitive due to the fact that there is less metal to absorbe the impact.
My .02

I agreed with everything you said, but this.

It used to be the airbags would deploy at anything above 27mph crash. There are little gold balls inside the crash sensors.....the gold balls are held on one side by a magnet...when you are in a crash the opposite force on the ball overcomes the magnet force and the ball rolls down to a set of contact points and makes the circuitry. That is only ONE of the two that have to make the connection. There is a primary AND secondary crash sensors, really the secondary is called a "safing" sensor, that have to both make contact for ONE air bag to delploy. The same is for the other air bag.

The reason I say this is because they are going to go off, regardless if you remove the bumper beam. and they wont be more sensative, because them deploying doesn't depend on how much metal or absorbing metal you have in front of them. It's all about the force that it takes to move the gold ball inside the sensor, from one end to another. (which is something about 1/4 inch or so)

I agreed with everything you said, but this.

It used to be the airbags would deploy at anything above 27mph crash. There are little gold balls inside the crash sensors.....the gold balls are held on one side by a magnet...when you are in a crash the opposite force on the ball overcomes the magnet force and the ball rolls down to a set of contact points and makes the circuitry. That is only ONE of the two that have to make the connection. There is a primary AND secondary crash sensors, really the secondary is called a "safing" sensor, that have to both make contact for ONE air bag to delploy. The same is for the other air bag.

The reason I say this is because they are going to go off, regardless if you remove the bumper beam. and they wont be more sensative, because them deploying doesn't depend on how much metal or absorbing metal you have in front of them. It's all about the force that it takes to move the gold ball inside the sensor, from one end to another. (which is something about 1/4 inch or so)


Saying "less metal to absorbe the shock" kinda clouded my point a bit I think. You and I are thinking along similar lines... but maybe I should have said "less metal to transfer the shock to the sensors." I agree... it's not really the metal absorbing the impact that does anything... but the metal transfering that 27mph of force to those sensors does. Again, if you hit a pole for example dead center with no crash bar at 40, what is going to absorbe the impact? The FMIC... the motor... the K frame and the lower tie bar etc. (the motor, k frame radiator etc have rubber shock absorbers afixing them) Had the bar been there, it would transfer much of the shock directly to the main rails to which the sensors are mounted. Also... I don't think more direct impact to the motor is a good thing for passengers sitting behind it.


It seems to me like fabbing a whole new beam would be easier than cutting the old one and fabbing around it. Assuming you have the ability of course. But then again, if you have those abilities, you could just fab all the pipes yourself and get a core that would use the stock beam in it's entirety.

Using a plasma cutter and a mig it wouldn't take long at all to reinforce the old one... but that depends upon having a plasma cutter and mig. lol.