Ok...those of us that race in BSP...know our cars....inside and out...We know what works...what doesn't...and for the most part what we can expect...

What about the other mounts in BSP...

Say John Tak's Evo

http://www.jrho.com/sm240/bspevo.jpg

What do we know about it besides its fast...What makes it fast...

what about the Bimmers or S2000's, Z's , Vettes..

What parts make them quick...What are we looking for when we go to impound for these guys...I admit..I know nothing about the legality of whatever parts on other makes...so I figured we could come together collectively...

First to try and make us more competitive in the class

Second, to learn what to look for on other cars...

and lastly, Maybe theres something we could apply to our cars...

Thanks..

Bill

Ok ...I will try my hand at it...

-most Evo's can run a 10 in wide front wheel and 9 in rear...
-they can sport 315 tires
-they are around 340 AWHP and 340 lbs Torque
-on a stock turbo they are around 23+ lbs of boost
-suspension is pretty wide....most spring rates i know of are right around ours
Bars are open as well...most using the Race Hotchis setup. most common Spring Rates are 12k and 10k
-weight is around 2885 normal RS configuration
-LSD's

Vette:
-Strut bars are a must to be competitive
-335 rear with 295 front tires seem to be the norm
-hp is right around 375+ to the wheels torque is well over 400 lbs's
-coilovers not so common but 1000lb springs are pretty common
-Trac Bars??? are big for some reason
-Steering racks from different models vary accross the board to what ratio's they are using...some as hight 16:1 down to a GM Performance Rack to 10.5:1...
LSD or Locker

S2000:
Engine stuff for the most part, Headers, Exhaust, VTEC controller
coilovers with HUGE swaybars..spring Rates 8k and 6K...

don't know to much other stuff...

My point is..I wouldn't even know what to look for thats illegal on ANY of these cars...

What are some of the 'cheater' things to look for on these things...

Ok ...I will try my hand at it...

-most Evo's can run a 10 in wide front wheel and 9 in rear...
-they can sport 315 tires
-they are around 340 AWHP and 340 lbs Torque
-on a stock turbo they are around 23+ lbs of boost
-suspension is pretty wide....most spring rates i know of are right around ours
Bars are open as well...most using the Race Hotchis setup. most common Spring Rates are 12k and 10k
-weight is around 2885 normal RS configuration
-LSD's


10" front is about max on stock fender, 9.5 is std rear
std tires are 285 or 295, not 315
hp is about right for an evo9 on race gas on a dynojet
that boost is a little high for pump, probably about right for race gas
sway bars are somewhat common in the rear, but can present issues with droop travel, I think you guys have the same issue
spring rates are not 12/10....more is necessary w/r comps
that weight sounds a little low for an evo in SP trim, although it's probably doable on a stripped RS

I can't comment on the other 2 as I don't own one.

^^^^ thanks ...they alway say to know your enemy..;)...appreciate it..

Holy smokes was John Tak fast at last year's nat'ls!!! :eek:

Thanks EvoESP....I appreciate it..

been surfing some other boards...and compiling a list...

Bill

hmmmmmmmmm....interesting what you can find out on other boards..

"Sorry, just found out today the car sold. The car is still in his showroom, but it has been paid for and is awaiting delivery to the lucky new owner."

MultiChampion Tom Berry has bought Tak's BSP Winning EVO...

interesting...

It's here, and he likes it a lot. :devil:

(more awesome photos by Mako)
http://public.fotki.com/makofoto/2007-solo-solo-2-au/evo-school-el-toro/theresalikesevo.html

^
What size tires does he have on that Evo?

S2000:
Engine stuff for the most part, Headers, Exhaust, VTEC controller
coilovers with HUGE swaybars..spring Rates 8k and 6K...
I trophied once at Nats in a BS S2000... The biggest advantage these guys have is HUGE tires and wheels. The cars will fit 245/275 in stock class. Also, my stock legal car weighed less than 2700 pounds on the scales in '04. Another big advantage for them is good suspension geometry. All the camber you can want STOCK. Oh, and a 50/50 weight distribution.

A well setup S2000 will probably not have HUGE bars. The enormous front bar thing is a carryover from stock. Anyone worth their salt will properly setup the car and lose the huge front bar. A well setup S2000 will lift the inside front tire off the ground at corner exit (mine did) and will slalom like a CSP Miata. Spring rates should be at least as much as noted above, particularly in the rear to limit the dynamic toe changes under bump.

The cars should be able to make between 250 and 300 horsepower in SP trim, but there's not much extra to wring out of the engine. Honda took almost all of it in its stock form. The big powertrain item is the rear differential. The OE torsen unit (aside from being a little on the weak side) is prone to wheelspin when lifting the inside rear tire off the ground. While suspension setup can largely fix this problem, a good differential will solve it. Of course, this just results in the car being NASTY to drive, as you'll light up both rear tires mid-corner if you're not careful. If you're going to beat the S2000, you'll do it with gearing. The AP1 cars will reach 65mph in 2nd gear, but need to downshift to first below about 35mph. The AP2 cars can lug 2nd down to around 30mph, but need to shift to 3rd at about 60mph. Neither of these cars has safe headroom to be raising rev-limits without serious internal engine work. The only other way to beat them is in the slick conditions. The cars are wicked when its slick... damn near impossible to drive fast.

^
What size tires does he have on that Evo?


285/35/18 hoosiers

adhowe70..thanks...exactly what I am looking for...

Bill

And another thing... driving a well setup S2000 is damn near orgasmic. I've haven't enjoyed myself at an event as much as I did at Nationals in '04... the car was good and I was good. Driving a poorly setup S2000 is torturous - If you're not perfect, you're spun out.

285/35/18 hoosiers
Thanks Bill. Damn - they look thick! :devil:

Chike

Tom Berry+Tak Evo=good for them... not as good for anyone else in BSP. Tough combo there!

Ok...those of us that race in BSP...know our cars....inside and out...We know what works...what doesn't...and for the most part what we can expect...

What about the other mounts in BSP...

Say John Tak's Evo

http://www.jrho.com/sm240/bspevo.jpg

What do we know about it besides its fast...What makes it fast...

what about the Bimmers or S2000's, Z's , Vettes..

What parts make them quick...What are we looking for when we go to impound for these guys...I admit..I know nothing about the legality of whatever parts on other makes...so I figured we could come together collectively...

First to try and make us more competitive in the class

Second, to learn what to look for on other cars...

and lastly, Maybe theres something we could apply to our cars...

Thanks..

Bill

Technically that was Andy Leiber's Evo...but who's being specific here?

From what I remember while talking to John and Andy at some of the local events last year...

Its a 2006 Evo IX RS. They were running 265 or 285 Kuhmo V710 on 18" WedsSport SA90 front wheels and 5Zigen FNO1R-C rear wheels. I don't know the widths. The coilovers are a custom spring and valve job on a set of Ohlins Flag's from Works done to John Tak's specifications. Camber plates are also from Works. Interior is Sparco Pro2000 seats for both driver and passenger with Schroth harnesses. To the best of my knowledge all engine work and tuning was done by Vishnu, but Andy and John don't let out any specifics about exactly what was done.

I had a chance to ride with Andy at a test and tune. WOW is all I can say. The car scares the crap out of me! Insta-spool combined with sticky rubber = insane.

Hope that's a little helpful.

MultiChampion Tom Berry has bought Tak's BSP Winning EVO...
Both the 2006 and the 2005 Evos that Tak drove were actually owned by Andrew Lieber, who, if I'm not mistaken, owns the dealership. He also apparently has automotive ADD.

Karen

they are running 285 hoosiers

John and Andy put a "lot" of development time into the car, data aquisition, etc...expensive shocks, and good drivers..

we have a torque advantage etc...I have more to say but I am working on a buddy's saabaru today so I can't spend much time at the computer..

more theories to come...

also...EVO's can get LOW compared to a STi

comments from friends at nationals though was that my car looked like it was towing a piano compared to Tak/Lieber's car....

I just really think they have invested development time and money wisely..

both of which most of us don't have as much of...time and money..

Interesting you mention them going lower- Whiteline has come out w/ a roll center kit for the EVO (balljoint extender/tie rod ends). Their comments were that the EVO "suffered" more than the Impreza when lowered- thus their decision to build that kit first.

Obviously such a kit wouldn't be SP legal, but thought Whitelines comments concerning roll centers- EVO vs Impreza interesting.

I haven't done the roll center calc but I have scales at the moment and plan on doing the CG calcs as well as RC on my car for this season..


hmmm...about the whiteline comment...

do evo's have a dual arm rear suspension? my memory fails me..

I haven't done the roll center calc but I have scales at the moment and plan on doing the CG calcs as well as RC on my car for this season..


hmmm...about the whiteline comment...

do evo's have a dual arm rear suspension? my memory fails me..
yes,...

Ok ...I will try my hand at it...

-most Evo's can run a 10 in wide front wheel and 9 in rear...
true, I think we can do the same though with fender mods, so I don't think this is a biggie..
-they can sport 315 tires
But they all ran 285's at nats, same as the fast S2K with those up front and something bigger in the back I can't remember, more of the what is proper for conditions
-they are around 340 AWHP and 340 lbs Torque
I think slightly more HP but we have them by the same amount of TQ, so I call that a wash
-on a stock turbo they are around 23+ lbs of boost
I run nutty boost as well, but only in the midrange, we all know what happends to the 39 trying to run it hard to red-line
-suspension is pretty wide....most spring rates i know of are right around ours
Bars are open as well...most using the Race Hotchis setup. most common Spring Rates are 12k and 10k
No idea hear as a lot of this is setup on driving style and tire/spring/bar/damper - I ran 12/10 at nats as well
-weight is around 2885 normal RS configuration
I see no way to hit that number, but I will think about it, it's likely to be albe to get he subie light, but you'd be spending an arm and a leg on exotic replacement parts that can be lightened
-LSD's
No idea what the evo setup is like

Vette:
It seemed to me the vette's had serious traction issues and were getting loose when powering out of corners, other than that I probably agree with most of the below
-Strut bars are a must to be competitive
-335 rear with 295 front tires seem to be the norm
-hp is right around 375+ to the wheels torque is well over 400 lbs's
-coilovers not so common but 1000lb springs are pretty common
-Trac Bars??? are big for some reason
-Steering racks from different models vary accross the board to what ratio's they are using...some as hight 16:1 down to a GM Performance Rack to 10.5:1...
LSD or Locker

S2000:
Can you say most empty looking engine bay EvAR, uyeda's S2k was rediculously cool, 285's tires and low on power but more narrow (effective at shortening course) and excellent handling and weight biasing
Engine stuff for the most part, Headers, Exhaust, VTEC controller
coilovers with HUGE swaybars..spring Rates 8k and 6K...

don't know to much other stuff...

My point is..I wouldn't even know what to look for thats illegal on ANY of these cars...
All the things in the rulebook would apply. People get nabbed for solid bushings and what-not but there are probably few people that know every car in and out in BSP, best to maybe get stock photos of the engine bay of each of the major type of competition, I typically extend trust in my fellow competitors unless I blatently notice something and it's worth gripeing over...ie..I have no gripes with roof fins, body kit bumpers and stuff, hell one guy locally raced in BSP in a S2k with a carbon fiber hood, but I'd have a problem if you put a nice snail on the car that wasn't stock

What are some of the 'cheater' things to look for on these things...


Nawssss bottles...:lol:


inred

Nawssss bottles...:lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Interesting that nobody has input on the 350z yet. ;)

Interesting that nobody has input on the 350z yet. ;)

IMO Not that competitive overall...or at least there hasn't been one of national caliber to speak of....to heavy...wider than a Vette..ackward dynamics....

minimal upgrades unless you make it forced inducted...then...its off to SM2...

Bill

The point to all this it to try and make our STi's better...more competitive...and learn what the competition is doing to make their cars fast...:)

Bill

Interesting you mention them going lower- Whiteline has come out w/ a roll center kit for the EVO (balljoint extender/tie rod ends). Their comments were that the EVO "suffered" more than the Impreza when lowered- thus their decision to build that kit first.

Obviously such a kit wouldn't be SP legal, but thought Whitelines comments concerning roll centers- EVO vs Impreza interesting.

yeah...I seen that too...big talk on the EVO board about it...

bill

IMO Not that competitive overall...or at least there hasn't been one of national caliber to speak of......

yet.... :D

You know I like to stir. :lol:

Vette:
-Strut bars are a must to be competitive
-335 rear with 295 front tires seem to be the norm
-hp is right around 375+ to the wheels torque is well over 400 lbs's
-coilovers not so common but 1000lb springs are pretty common
-Trac Bars??? are big for some reason
-Steering racks from different models vary accross the board to what ratio's they are using...some as hight 16:1 down to a GM Performance Rack to 10.5:1...
LSD or Locker

..

Strut bars, no, not needed and not used by top guys. Just adds weight.
Tires 335 rear and 315 front.
RWHP can be as low as 280 for an L98 car up to about 350 for an LT4. Tq is around 375 for all.
Coilovers not allowed, but fully adjustable mono-leafs are on the market up to about 1200lbs.
Trac bars, none.
Steering rack, the slow one is 15:1 the early C4 one is 13:1.
Weight 3000-3200lbs.

while doing more research...I found:

-That the C4 Vettes can invert their front control arm bushings to give another 2.3 degree's of camber...along with 1 deg of Caster.....

-Prepped BMW's have problems with engine mounts...and 'suggest' using after market items.

-that a Prepped Mazdaspeed Miata is BSP legal...:eek: and that Flyin' miata is getting about 240HP down on the stock turbo...Transmissions however; become subject to ridicule after about 225 hp...And they are getting 275's on a fully Prepped cars...with minimal fender mods...but Fender liners are pretty much history with ANY kind of suspension movement..

Bill

while doing more research...I found:

-That the C4 Vettes can invert their front control arm bushings to give another 2.3 degree's of camber...along with 1 deg of Caster.....

Bill

They can not "invert" their bushings. You can buy offset lower control arm bushings that will let you get -2.5 to -3 when added to the factory adjustment. Not sure where you are getting your C4 info but a lot of it is off.

while doing more research...I found:

-that a Prepped Mazdaspeed Miata is BSP legal...:eek: and that Flyin' miata is getting about 240HP down on the stock turbo...Transmissions however; become subject to ridicule after about 225 hp...And they are getting 275's on a fully Prepped cars...with minimal fender mods...but Fender liners are pretty much history with ANY kind of suspension movement..

Bill

Looking at the kits and dyno charts FM has for the MazdaSpeed the only one over 203 rwhp are the kits with a modified or replacement turbo, not BSP legal.
Also none of the current CSP Miata's, same body, can fit any of the current 275's with legal flares so not going to happen on a MS. Many years ago before the flare rule limited inner fender work Guy Ankeny had 265's on a Miata, but the fender mods he had would not be legal in SP today.

The MazdaSpeed is in the same class, but I would not call it competition. :)

They can not "invert" their bushings. You can buy offset lower control arm bushings that will let you get -2.5 to -3 when added to the factory adjustment. Not sure where you are getting your C4 info but a lot of it is off.

I read somewhere and cant find the mod where the 18mm and 9mm bushings are swapped? on the upper control arms to gain camber for better cornering.
Anyone know this mod, and have pictures? Sailor proof pics , so I can do it. Thanks, Steve
1993 C4 FE1 with ZO7 bars and shocks, springs coming later, and Grand SPort tires/Wheels.

I moved the spacers front to rear to change the caster (the spacers are different thicknesses). This is not really needed IMO on later ('88 & up) C4s.

Machining both spacers equally will help with camber. I had mine machined .120" thinner. In conjunction with my installation of Global West del-a-lum bushings, I now have nearly -2.0* of camber up front and my caster is still >6*



come off the Vette board...

come off the Vette board...

So you read it on the net so it must be true and legal right.... Those are not bushings they are aluminum spacers on the upper control arms. Also read appendix F of the SOLO rules and you will find where that exact item is listed as one that can not be modified or removed. That mod puts you in SM2.

There is a lot of bad info and worthless parts out there. Some dubm @ss out there is selling caster camber plates for the RX8. Ummm yeah the RX8 has upper and lower A arms, you can move the top of the shock a foot and it will not change your camber.

You guys are as bad at the Vette guys that think with a dial you have 600hp with a stock turbo in BSP. :lol:

So you read it on the net so it must be true and legal right.... Those are not bushings they are aluminum spacers on the upper control arms. Also read appendix F of the SOLO rules and you will find where that exact item is listed as one that can not be modified or removed. That mod puts you in SM2.

There is a lot of bad info and worthless parts out there. Some dubm @ss out there is selling caster camber plates for the RX8. Ummm yeah the RX8 has upper and lower A arms, you can move the top of the shock a foot and it will not change your camber.

You guys are as bad at the Vette guys that think with a dial you have 600hp with a stock turbo in BSP. :lol:


:lol: But see..this is the info I am looking for....to actually check the "other' cars when in impound.....Now I know what to look for...whereas before...I didn't.....I not saying this is correct or not...its just something I am learning about the other cars..:)....

and agreed about the bad info...:)

Bill

You guys are as bad at the Vette guys that think with a dial you have 600hp with a stock turbo in BSP. :lol:

They don't.......... I guess I'm not going to buy an STi :lol:

Bill - I think your 'Vette power numbers are accurate for the ZR-1, but not a competitive car.

Tak and Lieber did their homework with Andy's Evos. I spoke to John at length when the SPAC was considering another rally car move, and he disclosed some things to me in confidentiality that I won't repeat here. Suffice it to say that the car was very well (and legally) prepared. John is an engineer for a major Detroit automaker. He has access to equipment that most of us will never see, and he knows how to use it. In addition he drove the wheels off the car last year. I'm not concerned about that car being illegal as much as I'm concerned about being on the top of my game when I run into Mr. Berry in Topeka.

Suffice it to say that the car was very well (and legally) prepared. John is an engineer for a major Detroit automaker. He has access to equipment that most of us will never see, and he knows how to use it. In addition he drove the wheels off the car last year. I'm not concerned about that car being illegal as much as I'm concerned about being on the top of my game when I run into Mr. Berry in Topeka.

so +1 for what I said before...homework done early and double checked;) ...I give them props either way and the 2 EVO's they've prepped are excellent benchmarks for how crazy fast BSP cars can be..

Tak and Lieber did their homework with Andy's Evos. I spoke to John at length when the SPAC was considering another rally car move, [snip, snip]


I'm curious about this- were the Rally cars considered for a move to ASP?

There were a lot of additional letters after Nationals. I used results to show how close the competition truly was (i.e. Vette times on Day 2, single drivers in heat 1 competition, etc.). Basically the best prepared and best driven car won. It hasn't gone any further.

You know what they say....

"Keep your Enemies close....and your friends closer..."...=;)

Bill

Hmm... is the Solstice GXP/Sky Redline in BSP? If so... 260hp/260tq stock, quick spool, ability to fit BIG tires (285s/295s on the CStock ones, I'm thinking they could go with the slightly taller 315 and make better use of their gearing) light weight, not all THAT wide... Wonder how much power they can make in SP trim? On paper, that could be scary.

^
That would be the case, however, I heard their stock turbo is pretty much maxed out in stock trim. I think someone on SCCA Forums was saying a GXP/Redline in SP trim would probably make somewhere between 300-350hp at the crank depending on $$$ invested which would put it in the same power range as a BSP C4 Corvette.

Hmm... is the Solstice GXP/Sky Redline in BSP? If so... 260hp/260tq stock, quick spool, ability to fit BIG tires (285s/295s on the CStock ones, I'm thinking they could go with the slightly taller 315 and make better use of their gearing) light weight, not all THAT wide... Wonder how much power they can make in SP trim? On paper, that could be scary.

It's not being considered for BSP.

It's not being considered for BSP.
Whew..........................sigh......

what's up with everyone in a suby liking their numbers being in the 90's

joel - 91
bill - 93
justin(me) - 99

Is there a theme I didn't know about? Any other BSP STi's with a ninety number? haha

what's up with everyone in a suby liking their numbers being in the 90's

joel - 91
bill - 93
justin(me) - 99

Is there a theme I didn't know about? Any other BSP STi's with a ninety number? haha

Pretty much have to see where the competition runs..;)...:lol:.


just trying something new...

I have been 6, 16, 61, and 20...so I decided to go toward the end of the pack this year...;)...hopefully that won't be resident in my final #'s :lol: on where I finish...


Besides...its a theme.......I think..;)

Bill

double post removed

Since higher numbers run later at National events ... do the fast car owners typically run the 100 numbers so that their tire warmers run first?

At a little practice session a couple of weeks ago, Tom B. was a good 2 seconds faster then Max Hayter and his STU ProSolo winning STI. (I didn't see the final times at the end of the day.) Max was on brand new Yoks, Tom was on the very worn out Kuhmos that the ex-Tak car had arrived on ... on a short course, ie. Tom was in the 28's. It was very cool. The highest temps we saw trying to heat cycle new 275 710's on an ESP Forester was about 140+. Max was a second faster then Richard Jung if I recall correctly. Max was topping out in third at the finish ... the BSP car looked like a rocket in comparison. It will be interesting to see how local PAX Champ Tom Berry does this weekend in his first local race with it ... that will also feature in Pax people like Ken Motonishi, Rita Wilsey, Jason Isley, Jason Uyeda, perhaps Jason Rhodes in his new SM, ex STS Championship winning car, Ryan Buetzer, Jeff Barco, Steve O'Blenes and Scott McHugh, among other top drivers in out area.

This is what it takes to build National winning cars: http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=163184

Not saying he will, but the research and effort that Jason puts into building his cars is awesome!

ooohhh..snap - double post..

damn- you have a lot of good drivers in your region..

At a little practice session a couple of weeks ago, Tom B. was a good 2 seconds faster then Max Hayter and his STU ProSolo winning STI.

Hang on a minute, it was only 1.4secs!!::D Tom ran a 38.5 and I was a 39.9. Richard Jung got down to a 39.9 as well and Mike Simanyi was a 40.2 IIRC. The course was very transition heavy with multiple slaloms. But yes, beware Mr. Berry in that car - he's going to be very, very fast.

Hang on a minute, it was only 1.4secs!!::D Tom ran a 38.5 and I was a 39.9. Richard Jung got down to a 39.9 as well and Mike Simanyi was a 40.2 IIRC. The course was very transition heavy with multiple slaloms. But yes, beware Mr. Berry in that car - he's going to be very, very fast.
Were you really topping out in 3rd gear going into the finish Max? If so then that wasn't a legal SCCA solo course (as 3rd is good to over 90mph on '06 STIs).

Were you really topping out in 3rd gear going into the finish Max? If so then that wasn't a legal SCCA solo course (as 3rd is good to over 90mph on '06 STIs).

It wasn't an SCCA event - more like a private event. And yes, I was hitting the rev limiter in 3rd at the finish, but I think that is more like 70 mph with my 245/40/17 tires.

^
Gotcha. However, once speeds get above 65mph, the higher powered classes start to get an unfair advantage...

^
Gotcha. However, once speeds get above 65mph, the higher powered classes start to get an unfair advantage...

It was only crossing the finish line I was at that speed. The rest of the course was half 2nd/half 3rd gear.

^
Gotcha. However, once speeds get above 65mph, the higher powered classes start to get an unfair advantage...


And yet max got beat by a car that puts about 160hp to the ground. :devil:

There was also a drag race start. :mad:

btw Tom was on an OLD set of Hoosier's that came with the car and were corded within a few runs. He will be fast.

^
What times were you turning in your RX-8 Jason?

^
What times were you turning in your RX-8 Jason?

39.6 was my best.

39.6 was my best.

I had him nervous at least:D

I had him nervous at least:D


Yep, you make me nervous: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/bstockrx8/photo/294928803701425208/0

:lol:

39.6 was my best.
Nice! :cool: But the '07 BS PAX index is 0.828, while the '07 STU PAX is index is 0.821.

Jason's 39.6 x 0.828 = 32.788

Max's 39.9 x 0.821 = 32.757

Looks like Max had you beat! :p

Nice! :cool: But the '07 BS PAX index is 0.828, while the '07 STU PAX is index is 0.821.

Jason's 39.6 x 0.828 = 32.788

Max's 39.9 x 0.821 = 32.757

Looks like Max had you beat! :p

I know you don't want to turn this in to a how weak the STU Pax is thread. :lol: Sure would be nice if some fast guys get in the class this year and push Brandon beyond winning in an AS car on coilovers. :eek:

I know you don't want to turn this in to a how weak the STU Pax is thread. :lol: Sure would be nice if some fast guys get in the class this year and push Brandon beyond winning in an AS car on coilovers. :eek:
LOL! Wouldn't want to take the thread there! :lol:

No way! Brandon are you still on the stock ECU?! :eek:

Can't we examine the Pro Finale results instead:D

Sure would be nice if some fast guys get in the class this year and push Brandon beyond winning in an AS car on coilovers. :eek:

Coilovers, ECU tuning, possibly exhaust, does not equal an AS car Jason. No arguement that his car has room for improvement, but the field is generally new and Brandon has proven that a driver is the key to winning more so than the car. Considering that STU has the highest hp cars with the most weight on street tires certainly needs a couple seasons of developement specifically on asphalt. And I'm not discounting the lower hp, lighter weight M3.

I personally would like to see you bring over your RX-8 and see if you fit in with the so-called "fast guys" instead of discounting the existing talent. :)

Dave

Coilovers, ECU tuning, possibly exhaust, does not equal an AS car Jason. No arguement that his car has room for improvement, but the field is generally new and Brandon has proven that a driver is the key to winning more so than the car. Considering that STU has the highest hp cars with the most weight on street tires certainly needs a couple seasons of developement specifically on asphalt. And I'm not discounting the lower hp, lighter weight M3.

I personally would like to see you bring over your RX-8 and see if you fit in with the so-called "fast guys" instead of discounting the existing talent. :)

Dave

Dam, just realized this is a BSP thread. Sorry, off topic.

Dave

Dam, just realized this is a BSP thread. Sorry, off topic.

Dave

Yeah - apologies for the hijack. Blame Isley!

Thanks...^ i wasn't going to say anything...................................yet.... ;)

Bill

The Moment when Tom decided to go with the Evo instead of a STI:

http://images9.fotki.com/v184/photos/4/43793/4311348/TomTrueGrit-vi.jpg

Mr & Mrs Berry with their new toy:

http://images20.fotki.com/v382/photos/4/43793/4551333/BerrySP-vi.jpg

Coilovers, ECU tuning, possibly exhaust, does not equal an AS car Jason. No arguement that his car has room for improvement, but the field is generally new and Brandon has proven that a driver is the key to winning more so than the car. Considering that STU has the highest hp cars with the most weight on street tires certainly needs a couple seasons of developement specifically on asphalt. And I'm not discounting the lower hp, lighter weight M3.

I personally would like to see you bring over your RX-8 and see if you fit in with the so-called "fast guys" instead of discounting the existing talent. :)

Dave


I was just jerking Max's chain, funny how it got more of a rise out of you than him. :lol: However the class getting owned two years in a row by a car with stock 7.5" wheels , AC, rubber bushings and stock seats tells me there is a lot left on the table. :o imho Max showed at the Pro Finale how fast STU is. I expect this year as a Natl class if you do not raise your game those that were in the trophies in 2006 will be mid-pack fodder for 2007. The M3s that were near the top had more development than any other cars in the class. I don't see those cars getting much faster. I will be surprised if one can get into the top 5 this year.

Take my two time championship winning car and dump $10k in it to go to a slower class, I don't think so. Now forced induction and Street Mod. :cool:

To keep this on track, the RX8 is also a BSP car. Forget about it, weighs 150 lbs more then the S2K and in SP trim they make less power than a stock S2K, 201hp/141tq at the wheels. :( The good news is 18X10 with 285s fit in the stock fenders. The stock suspension is really pretty good to begin with so there are only minor improvements to be found. I doubt you will ever see anyone make a serious run at BSP in one.

The Moment when Tom decided to go with the Evo instead of a STI:

http://images9.fotki.com/v184/photos/4/43793/4311348/TomTrueGrit-vi.jpg
ROFLMAO! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bloody hell man, you are going to mess up my pink stickers on those cones.
http://images9.fotki.com/v184/photos/4/43793/4311348/TomTrueGrit-vi.jpg


:lol:

I was just jerking Max's chain, funny how it got more of a rise out of you than him. :lol: However the class getting owned two years in a row by a car with stock 7.5" wheels , AC, rubber bushings and stock seats tells me there is a lot left on the table. :o imho Max showed at the Pro Finale how fast STU is. I expect this year as a Natl class if you do not raise your game those that were in the trophies in 2006 will be mid-pack fodder for 2007. The M3s that were near the top had more development than any other cars in the class. I don't see those cars getting much faster. I will be surprised if one can get into the top 5 this year.

Take my two time championship winning car and dump $10k in it to go to a slower class, I don't think so. Now forced induction and Street Mod. :cool:

To keep this on track, the RX8 is also a BSP car. Forget about it, weighs 150 lbs more then the S2K and in SP trim they make less power than a stock S2K, 201hp/141tq at the wheels. :( The good news is 18X10 with 285s fit in the stock fenders. The stock suspension is really pretty good to begin with so there are only minor improvements to be found. I doubt you will ever see anyone make a serious run at BSP in one.

thanks..:)....

http://images14.fotki.com/v363/photos/4/43793/4311348/TomMax-vi.jpg

I was just jerking Max's chain, funny how it got more of a rise out of you than him. :lol:
No rise here, just all fun and games, lol.

:o imho Max showed at the Pro Finale how fast STU is.
Makes me feel better 7 tenths out :)

Take my two time championship winning car and dump $10k in it to go to a slower class, I don't think so.
You mean STU does not have a softer pax after all? lol.

I do agree with you that the RX-8 would be a difficult BSP car and that seeing one compete in SM trim would be interesting.

Dave

Evos without lots of suspension work typically look a little more like this with sticky tires.....

http://members.roadfly.com/jbgotm/steve_3_wheel.jpg

I loved driving that car.

And from the rear:

http://images6.fotki.com/v1/photos/4/43793/2140986/JustNotFun-vi.jpg

^^^^ new meaning to someone who is called 'Tripod' for all the wrong reasons...:lol:

Damn! :eek: Talk about inside rear wheel lift!!!

Do Evo's benefit from Bigger Front bars like Impreza's do????

handling wise

Bill

Anyone know where the weight and power of a typical 2.0L or 2.2L BSP S2000 would be?

Anyone know where the weight and power of a typical 2.0L or 2.2L BSP S2000 would be?

2800ish or so

Thanks. How much power over their stock 240hp can they make with an intake, full exhaust and an ecu tune?

Looks like my answer is in post #10...
I trophied once at Nats in a BS S2000... The biggest advantage these guys have is HUGE tires and wheels. The cars will fit 245/275 in stock class. Also, my stock legal car weighed less than 2700 pounds on the scales in '04. Another big advantage for them is good suspension geometry. All the camber you can want STOCK. Oh, and a 50/50 weight distribution.

A well setup S2000 will probably not have HUGE bars. The enormous front bar thing is a carryover from stock. Anyone worth their salt will properly setup the car and lose the huge front bar. A well setup S2000 will lift the inside front tire off the ground at corner exit (mine did) and will slalom like a CSP Miata. Spring rates should be at least as much as noted above, particularly in the rear to limit the dynamic toe changes under bump.

The cars should be able to make between 250 and 300 horsepower in SP trim, but there's not much extra to wring out of the engine. Honda took almost all of it in its stock form. The big powertrain item is the rear differential. The OE torsen unit (aside from being a little on the weak side) is prone to wheelspin when lifting the inside rear tire off the ground. While suspension setup can largely fix this problem, a good differential will solve it. Of course, this just results in the car being NASTY to drive, as you'll light up both rear tires mid-corner if you're not careful. If you're going to beat the S2000, you'll do it with gearing. The AP1 cars will reach 65mph in 2nd gear, but need to downshift to first below about 35mph. The AP2 cars can lug 2nd down to around 30mph, but need to shift to 3rd at about 60mph. Neither of these cars has safe headroom to be raising rev-limits without serious internal engine work. The only other way to beat them is in the slick conditions. The cars are wicked when its slick... damn near impossible to drive fast.

2800ish or so

The AS cars are under that:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=235671

btw Rita's 2005 BSP C4 weighed more than my AS car.

2800ish or so

Huh? Previous posters have said that the S2k can get to under 2700lbs in stock form???

I think I've probably taken my S2k further along in BSP development than anyone else... Bone stock my car was 2770 on a full tank with the spare and tools removed. A reasonable weight for a well developed BSP S2k will be around 2530 full tank (my car is a little heavier than that)... S2k's fuel starve easily and don't always recover from it gracefully so you're better off running full tank vs. the weight savings imho. You could probably get to 2500 on a first gen (AP1) but you're probably splitting hairs at that point and compromising setup (i.e. lighter wheels at the compromise of proper wheel width, etc.).

I'd expect Dynojet numbers for a BSP S2k to be ~220-230 on a 2.2l (AP2). And maybe 10-15hp less on a 2.0l (AP1) but the AP1 will have gearing advantages on faster courses. Not considering the ud/bd possibilities obviously. You can get more peak hp at the cost of mid/low-range but that's a bad idea imho...

Here's another great Mako pic, my Evo bone stock including tires... If not on 2 wheels, pretty close to it.:
http://images19.fotki.com/v359/photos/4/43793/4235871/2WheelLurch-vi.jpg

_J_

btw Rita's 2005 BSP C4 weighed more than my AS car.

It was also an automatic. Seriously. Please no jokes about women driving manual trannies ;)

It was also an automatic. Seriously. Please no jokes about women driving manual trannies ;)

True but it also still had a lot of stuff that could have been pulled under SP rules, that car could have lost 100 lbs.

btw check that S2k link of weights. The 2nd lightest C4 in AS, French, was as auto and he was only 10 lbs over me.

True but it also still had a lot of stuff that could have been pulled under SP rules, that car could have lost 100 lbs.

btw check that S2k link of weights. The 2nd lightest C4 in AS, French, was as auto and he was only 10 lbs over me.

I think Rita's yellow car (w/ 4pt rollbar) was sub 3000 or very close to it... I have seen top-level BSP L98 C4's on scales at close to 2900 (~ 1/2 tank) :)

It was also an automatic. Seriously. Please no jokes about women driving manual trannies ;)

I started autoxing after going to an event and watching Rita. Even bought a Corvette because of that, that I prepped for BSP, that I still have. No jokes here...

The Moment when Tom decided to go with the Evo instead of a STI:

http://images9.fotki.com/v184/photos/4/43793/4311348/TomTrueGrit-vi.jpg

[/IMG]

This is easily one of the funniest quoted pics I have ever seen.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is easily one of the funniest quoted pics I have ever seen.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The other funny thing was that, when we finished the run, Tom turns to me and says, "Jeez, I hope Mako did not get that on camera":D

-Max.

I think Rita's yellow car (w/ 4pt rollbar) was sub 3000 or very close to it... I have seen top-level BSP L98 C4's on scales at close to 2900 (~ 1/2 tank) :)



I started autoxing after going to an event and watching Rita. Even bought a Corvette because of that, that I prepped for BSP, that I still have. No jokes here...

I think Ramey got his 96' LT4 car down around 3000 lbs, so it can be done.

No doubt that is one fast Grandma. She also just bought back her AS C4, she then took it to an event and put away two time AS champ McWho. :eek: For whatever reason the Z06 was not her bag, she did ok in it, but man put her in a C4 and watch out.

I just like grand sports...

S2k's fuel starve easily
This varies widely from car to car. I ran mine with 3 bars of fuel without starvation. I know people that couldn't run with less than half a tank. No one seems to know why this is, but some cars are better at picking up the fuel than others.

As for weight, Andy McKee speculated that the scales in Topeka in '04 were heavy by 25 pounds or so. He swore that my car (previously his car) weighed closer to 2650 on other scales with similar fuel loads. I doubt all of that difference was gained in A3S04's over A3S03's.

Andy H.

The next funny thing was that moments later I told Tom ... "Hey, I got that on (sic) film, and it's for sale!" He should have bought the rights right then and there and had me erase it! hahaha

The other funny thing was that, when we finished the run, Tom turns to me and says, "Jeez, I hope Mako did not get that on camera":D

-Max.

hahahajhdakfasdfhdsakjlfhdsakf

Max, you don't look too flatering in that pic either! You look like you're about to lay a stanly steamer.;)

I think I've probably taken my S2k further along in BSP development than anyone else...
_J_

Are you familiar with Jason Uyeda's car? He did a great job with it. Moton, ITBs, etc.

I'd be more interested in seeing the torque numbers for a well-done BSP S2k. Torque is where it's at when you're driving off a 25-30 mph corner...

Are you familiar with Jason Uyeda's car? He did a great job with it. Moton, ITBs, etc.

I'd be more interested in seeing the torque numbers for a well-done BSP S2k. Torque is where it's at when you're driving off a 25-30 mph corner...

That is Jason U posting. :lol:

Duh...

Jason - care to share your torque numbers?

Duh...

Jason - care to share your torque numbers?

Care to share yours :devil:

Should be about 165-175 on a Dynojet for an AP2 and again I'd guess ~10 less for an AP1...

I'm running Ankeny built Penske's btw...

_J_

Are you familiar with Jason Uyeda's car? He did a great job with it. Moton, ITBs, etc.

I'd be more interested in seeing the torque numbers for a well-done BSP S2k. Torque is where it's at when you're driving off a 25-30 mph corner...

Torque is just a downshift away!:lol:

^^
Very true. Gotta stay in the Vtec. Those S2000's almost drive like a turbo car in terms of the difference in power between the non-vtec and vtec rev ranges.

Max how did your STU STI do against that BSP EVO this weekend ?

Max how did your STU STI do against that BSP EVO this weekend ?

Pretty good, but I don't want to drag this thread off topic any more. Discussing the relative BSP/STU Pax will only send Isley into fits:D

OK, I thought the raw times might be interesting, just as a comparison of what the SP allowances do

Pretty good, but I don't want to drag this thread off topic any more. Discussing the relative BSP/STU Pax will only send Isley into fits:D

Max, was this the first SD event of 07'?

Dave

Max, was this the first SD event of 07'?

Dave

Well, yes and no Dave. We had a practice on Saturday which was dry where we were better able to get realistic times. The SD event on Sunday was wet, but drying and Tom's BSP was on rain tires, so you can't really judge anything by that.

Practice times are difficult to gauge. People always drive balls-out, unafraid of hitting a cone. To beat Tom in relative PAX times on Saturday, meant me driving in a way that would get only 1 clean run in about 5 attempts:D

Care to share yours :devil:
_J_

418 on C16, measured on a Dynapack. That was before decking the head, .020 over, forged pistons, balance and blueprint. ;)

Huh? Previous posters have said that the S2k can get to under 2700lbs in stock form???

I think I've probably taken my S2k further along in BSP development than anyone else... Bone stock my car was 2770 on a full tank with the spare and tools removed. A reasonable weight for a well developed BSP S2k will be around 2530 full tank (my car is a little heavier than that)... S2k's fuel starve easily and don't always recover from it gracefully so you're better off running full tank vs. the weight savings imho. You could probably get to 2500 on a first gen (AP1) but you're probably splitting hairs at that point and compromising setup (i.e. lighter wheels at the compromise of proper wheel width, etc.).

I'd expect Dynojet numbers for a BSP S2k to be ~220-230 on a 2.2l (AP2). And maybe 10-15hp less on a 2.0l (AP1) but the AP1 will have gearing advantages on faster courses. Not considering the ud/bd possibilities obviously. You can get more peak hp at the cost of mid/low-range but that's a bad idea imho...

Here's another great Mako pic, my Evo bone stock including tires... If not on 2 wheels, pretty close to it.:
http://images19.fotki.com/v359/photos/4/43793/4235871/2WheelLurch-vi.jpg

_J_

Things could be worse....

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/4820/saturnhx0.jpg

? I don't get it ... did he or didn't he hit the cone? That's all that counts, right? :-)

Great and Famous shot ...

^^^
DAYUM!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Does anyone have a link to a folder for pics of the BSP heat at the 2006 nationals?

Does anyone have a link to a folder for pics of the BSP heat at the 2006 nationals?
Go here: http://www.printroom.com/pro/action

And click on the link to SCCA Solo Nat Sept 26 Heat 1 West. I saw some pics of Tak's Evo, Berry's Evo and Rothermel's STi.

P.S. Pics of the BSPL class can be seen at the SCCA Solo Nat Sept 26 Heat 3 West link on this page.

Go here: http://www.printroom.com/pro/action

And click on the link to SCCA Solo Nat Sept 26 Heat 1 West. I saw some pics of Tak's Evo, Berry's Evo and Rothermel's STi.

Man, those pics cost an arm and a leg. Also, there are pictures of sciolist's STi, and elterman's as well, driven by templeton and hohl (sp?) because james wife was making babies, lol...congrats to him!:p and joel's car was in teh crapper...hopefully I don't break anything on mine this year...

It's nuts that that was already 5 months ago, time flies.:(

because james wife was making babies, lol...congrats to him!
Luckily for him she was late so there is a possiblity of him making Nats again sometime in the next 18 years ;)

Hmm... is the Solstice GXP/Sky Redline in BSP? If so... 260hp/260tq stock, quick spool, ability to fit BIG tires (285s/295s on the CStock ones, I'm thinking they could go with the slightly taller 315 and make better use of their gearing) light weight, not all THAT wide... Wonder how much power they can make in SP trim? On paper, that could be scary.

Officially ASP with the release of the March Fastrack.

Officially ASP with the release of the March Fastrack.

Typical SCCA move. That car will be buried there. I personally feel it would be a perfect fit for BSP. But only time will tell. But I guess it's better to over class the car so no one will build one, and then, omg! They won't have any data points to draw from.:rolleyes: When the the subject somes up again in a few years.

I was personally in favor of ASP for the Solstice GXP. Explain to me why you think it would fit in BSP? Basically it would be an S2000 with more top end and TONS more bottom end.

I was personally in favor of ASP for the Solstice GXP. Explain to me why you think it would fit in BSP?Because it still won't be close to a well-done Evo IX at HPT.

Because it still won't be close to a well-done Evo IX at HPT.

I wouldn't be so sure. Let's take a look at Tipple's AS times this weekend. With boost and wheels that fit the 285s, that car is going to be a rocket. Remember that it makes 260 ft-lbs at 1800 rpm from the factory. I know your opinion is that the HPT surface changes everything. I agree with you for cold heat 1 runs, but with a little warmer temps, two drivers in the car, and a surface that has weathered in more than a few months, the game is much different.

Too bad we probably won't ever know now, anybody with the capability of building/driving an ASP Skystice to its potential is probably too smart to take a chance against Z06s, GT2's, etc.

Too bad we probably won't ever know now, anybody with the capability of building/driving an ASP Skystice to its potential is probably too smart to take a chance against Z06s, GT2's, etc.

Bingo, I'd love to build one and give it a shot. But aside from the obvious financial reasons. There are just other cars I'd try way before the solstice. Like say, an elise.

Well...I learned some more things this past week on various cars...

- A 1967 Vette is BSP...complete with all the trimmings...made an interesting conversaton piece for sure.....the question is ...Who knows exactly what was on a 67 vette from the factory....:rolleyes:....

- most cars the have 315+ tires..can't get enough heat in them to work correctly...unless its hot ambient outside..

- a prepped STi can almost hang with a GT3/Z06 from SS and ASP..
(I think thats has alot to do with driver...and am no way saying an STi should go to ASP...neither is an EVO...

to me it comes down to course style, driving style, and car setup(tuning and suspension)...

to say a well driven Solstice couldn't hang...is just silly...especially since I watched Rob Faulkner drive one the first time in the car on nothing but hoosiers and thats it set a blistering time very similar to a GT3 in Practice

Bill

315 tires kick ass, only when it's hot, hot, hot...

you southerners are probably ok...I have to deal with an ever changing western PA environment, lol..

I didn't have any problems with 315s in 70 degree ambient temps. As long as the tires are room temp to 120* in grid you'll be fine.

yeah, so pittsburgh has like 3 or 4 70+ degree events a year, lol...

my problem is in the run-heats before noon up here, we have 3 runs in the morning and 3 in the afternoon, typically it's colder than that in the morning and it takes 3 runs to get them up to temp..

http://www.blackwatchracing.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=15&cat=Tire+Bags&products=motor

;)

http://www.blackwatchracing.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=15&cat=Tire+Bags&products=motor

;)

1. Buy Duct-tape ($5)
2. Buy RV Tire Cover Foil ($20)
3. Master your duct-tape skills FTW
4. Profit!

$25 and a fun getto appearance;)

<beep>done</beep>




I made some at nats but passed them on to a STS friend from STL for TH/FRI heats, going to make a new set for this year.

[quote=Scooby South;17233261]Well...I learned some more things this past week on various cars...

-( A 1967 Vette is BSP...complete with all the trimmings...made an interesting conversaton piece for sure.....the question is ...Who knows exactly what was on a 67 vette from the factory....:rolleyes:....)

- (most cars the have 315+ tires..can't get enough heat in them to work correctly...unless its hot ambient outside..)

Mike Perakis's corvette is a 1968, with all of the right BSP parts, runs 335-35-17's with no problems heating up on any day.

-( a prepped STi can almost hang with a GT3/Z06 from SS and ASP..
(I think thats has alot to do with driver...and am no way saying an STi should go to ASP...neither is an EVO...)

say what? John Tak would have easily won ASP at nationals last year even running first heat. the issue is that the four wheel drive aspect takes alot out of the even playing field when the weather is cool or raining

Thanks for the tire "keeper warmers" J :)

I still have them - they are currently insulating my bagged tires from the cold basement floor (and even they are on top of 2x4's). I plan on cutting them down to actually fit.

http://autoxphotos.com/thumb.asp?size=640&path=gallery/National%20Solo/2006/SOLO%20Nationals/Justin/DSCF5444.JPG


I drive a hovering STS car...

Lol..no problem...

http://autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=viewimage&categoryid=268&text=&imageid=24834&box=&shownew=

[quote=Scooby South;17233261]Well...I learned some more things this past week on various cars...

-( A 1967 Vette is BSP...complete with all the trimmings...made an interesting conversaton piece for sure.....the question is ...Who knows exactly what was on a 67 vette from the factory....:rolleyes:....)

- (most cars the have 315+ tires..can't get enough heat in them to work correctly...unless its hot ambient outside..)

Mike Perakis's corvette is a 1968, with all of the right BSP parts, runs 335-35-17's with no problems heating up on any day.

-( a prepped STi can almost hang with a GT3/Z06 from SS and ASP..
(I think thats has alot to do with driver...and am no way saying an STi should go to ASP...neither is an EVO...)

say what? John Tak would have easily won ASP at nationals last year even running first heat. the issue is that the four wheel drive aspect takes alot out of the even playing field when the weather is cool or raining

67.....68...Whats the difference....The whole point of this thread is for us(Subaru owners) to learn what to look for on other cars....to know whats legal or not...I not questioning the legality of Mike's car...but I do want to know what I am looking at...:)

True that John would have won nationals in his BSP EVO...But that has to one of the best prepped cars in the country...much less for nationals..We'll see how Mr. Berry handles it....ASP is on a whole different level $$$$ wise...for sure...the AWD cars have a advantage in the rain....the snow....and the dry...Thats why we like them..;)...now wheather or not its competitive in the upper ranks..is yet to be seen...

When Stompy gets finished...it will probably be the best prepped BSP STi around...theres some others that are up there...and no mines not one of them...I still daily drive my car...never trailered...I drive to the events...and it has to get me home..;)...Justins is up there....obviously Brians car from this past weekend is up there....IMO.....

Bill

The '67 model marks the end of the 2nd generation Corvette. The '68 model marks the beginning of the 3rd generation. From what I understand, there has been some literature produced about the Corvette over the years, so it probably isn't too hard to do some homework.

I still drive my car every where. But I am a little crazy.

Brian

I'll probably drive Stompy to events this season including the National Championship. Daddio also drove his SM car to all the events in 2005. It makes it easier to haul extra tires and all your luggage with the car on the trailer, but my car if definitely streetable.

Oh yeah, it's new diff time baby...hope everything goes back together the way it came off, lol:lol:

http://www.spryracing.com/images/PostedPics/NASIOCMembers/crystalhelix/howyoulikemydiff.jpg.JPG

:banana:

hahahaha, sweet pic!

I gotta save that one for prosperity! That's black mail quality right there... :p

Hahaha... take that rear diff :D

Please blur out the "zzyzx" on that pic, OK?

:lol:

Haha...I set the camera on my shelves and set the timer I had no idea what the framing was like...sorry steve...:lol:

The car is looking good Justin.

Please blur out the "zzyzx" on that pic, OK?

:lol:

haha, I can see it now. "Due to your default in clause 406.b1 (mis-representing the company) in your contract, we must retract our previous sponsorship and please ask that you send back all parts and remove all stickers form your vehicle imeaditely."

Thanks,

Steve @ Zzyzx

:lol:

Hmmmm..Berry uses K&W Variant 3's and is now on Kumho's...?????


http://www.scoobysouth.net/berry.jpg

http://www.scoobysouth.net/berry1.jpg

EVO's can fit huge meats under those wheel wells. My god.

I bet you that is a different "Berry". Not the same car.

It is not he same Berry, the above Berry was at nationals though, I eeked him out of a trophy by a hair..

Yes, the above pictures are of Mark Berry from the Dallas region. He runs an 03 Evo with an RS front diff, and the is probably %99 prepped. He's run Kumhos for a long time, but ran hoosiers at Nationals. He also daily drives it!

Good to hear that I will have some very good competition in Mr. Berry when I venture to Walnut Ridge. I figure the better the competition the more I will improve from trying to keep up. Oh yeah more then two cars would be nice to have, so BSP needs to step up and make the trip to WR and Huntsville. (ahem, Bill)

Brian

I want to know what people were rubbing on their tires the night before the big event at nationals, I noted Berry in a group of people rubbing their tires down with something. I have heard everything from tire softening compound to kerosene.

cheetah blood...

1977+ 911SC question.....Is it legal for a 3.2 liter SC to update to 930 Chain tensioners??? even tho its common practice to do so???? or is that something that is UD/BD ...even tho the 930 was a turbo model...Wouldn't that be like updating a baseline impreza with Brembo's ?????..they are both impreza's...

Bill

interesting GRM Street Prepared article..on Danny Popps Z06 (http://www.grmotorsports.com/backissues/scca-street-prepared-rules-allow-a-lot-of-leeway.php)

interesting GRM Street Prepared article..on Danny Popps Z06 (http://www.grmotorsports.com/backissues/scca-street-prepared-rules-allow-a-lot-of-leeway.php)

very interesting...wow, he kinda lay's most of his info on the table there..:)

interesting GRM Street Prepared article..on Danny Popps Z06 (http://www.grmotorsports.com/backissues/scca-street-prepared-rules-allow-a-lot-of-leeway.php)

Crash bolts are legal for stock class? :confused:

In Solo II autocross competition, advantages in the Stock classes are all about the fine details, like “crash bolts” that can help gain a bit of camber, or a set of tires that have experienced just the right amount of heat cycles.

Crash bolts are legal for stock class? :confused:

Depends on the FSM.

Some list them as an acceptable repair other do not.

Depends on the FSM.

Some list them as an acceptable repair other do not.

Oh, alright. I recall there being a discussion about using crash bolts for DS WRXs, and people were saying it's not legal.

In our CSCC race on Sunday ... Tom Berry put the PAX HURT on the crowd, besting Bill Schenker/CSP by 3 seconds! Usually Bill is with-in a second of Tom ... before he got his BSP EVO. Tom was up against National drivers like Ken Motonishi, Eric Clements, Rita Wilsey, Jason Isley and Uyeda, Ryan Buezter, Jeff Barco and an ill Max Hayter. Up and coming STX driver Seb Rio's Paxed 6th overall with his WRX sporting Josh Sortor's rebuilt Progress strut/spring package! Apparently Bill's tires were however on their last leg ...

^
Damn! Sounds like Berry is getting stupid fast in the Evo...

I want to know what people were rubbing on their tires the night before the big event at nationals, I noted Berry in a group of people rubbing their tires down with something. I have heard everything from tire softening compound to kerosene.

Mark Berry was hiting the tires with a wirewheel trying to scrub them in. That is all, no voodoo magic.

-Paul

Depends on the FSM.

Some list them as an acceptable repair other do not.

Aye. Another easy way to make this determination is if you can buy the parts from a dealer. Popular trick on VW's, since there are actual VW "crash bolts" with factory part numbers. Not so on WRX's.

I know that crash bolts on the Celica let you get close to 3.5 degrees of front camber if you wanted it and still be FSM legal for stock class, made the GT the car to have until the Mini. I've still got a whole set of 1 dot, 2 dot and 3 dot Toyota crash bolts in the garage somewhere and the FSM allowed the use of 3 dots in both top and bottom strut holes if you wanted.

1977+ 911SC question.....Is it legal for a 3.2 liter SC to update to 930 Chain tensioners??? even tho its common practice to do so???? or is that something that is UD/BD ...even tho the 930 was a turbo model...Wouldn't that be like updating a baseline impreza with Brembo's ?????..they are both impreza's...

Bill

I believe you would have to swap the whole motor. It's the same as swapping the evo 9 turbo onto the evo 8 motor. Can't do it in SP unless you swap the whole motor along with it.

In our CSCC race on Sunday ... Tom Berry put the PAX HURT on the crowd, besting Bill Schenker/CSP by 3 seconds! Usually Bill is with-in a second of Tom ... before he got his BSP EVO. Tom was up against National drivers like Ken Motonishi, Eric Clements, Rita Wilsey, Jason Isley and Uyeda, Ryan Buezter, Jeff Barco and an ill Max Hayter. Up and coming STX driver Seb Rio's Paxed 6th overall with his WRX sporting Josh Sortor's rebuilt Progress strut/spring package! Apparently Bill's tires were however on their last leg ...

Not a bad result, but then again Berry was only 2 tenths faster than a 1990 'Vette in SM2. It also didn't hurt that they used the 2006 PAX in the calculation, in which BSP was MUCH easier.

http://www.solo2.com/results/2007-03-11i.pdf

I'd say based on those results either that SM2 Vetter is a total sleeper with a great driver, or that things might have favored a certain car on that course. To see him 4 seconds ahead of montonishi in DSP though is pretty amazing.

Not a bad result, but then again Berry was only 2 tenths faster than a 1990 'Vette in SM2. It also didn't hurt that they used the 2006 PAX in the calculation, in which BSP was MUCH easier.

http://www.solo2.com/results/2007-03-11i.pdf


Results have been updated with the 2007 PAX.

Damn. Christine Berry is super fast in that Evo as well - just two spots behind Isley and ahead of Barco.

Well...a little update:

a Custom 2-way LSD Rear Diff is going in my car to help with the tripod issue...It seems that Struts alone can't fix this..so I opted to go hardcore and do the Diff...I expect a 1000% improvement in Off corner exit with traction this time..:p...I also went with some Data Aquisition stuff with video overlay...to help evaluate runs..:)...so hopefully with all this done...I instantly become a sec faster...:lol:

Bill

what data system did you go w/? expensive?

oh that's at least 1.24 seconds :)

what data system did you go w/? expensive?

oh that's at least 1.24 seconds :) Even Better///:D

MaxQdata GPS model with Trackvision Overlay capability....should do the trick..;)..

I had made an inquiry...in THIS Thead (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1252486)..and came to my conclusion...Great info..:)

Bill

^ Nice thread- missed that one :)

you'll love the diff, Bill :) However, you'll love the front one even more when you do it :devil:

you'll love the diff, Bill :) However, you'll love the front one even more when you do it :devil:

See...thats what I love...but I has a surrrrrrprrrizzze ..;)...including a Gymkana Center section..;)

First good action pic from this year in BSP...
http://www.spryracing.com/images/cars/subaru/2004STi/20070506NHSCCEvent3/2007main_ver1.jpg

^

You're missing a big arse wing! :lol: <runs and hides>

sti limited updateZ

gotta get the lip spoiler on there before national level events..

Well... since this is a thread about the competition... I figured I post up my modestly prepped BSP Evo.

Around ~300whp
Lightweight Battery
Buddyclub coilovers
275/40/17 tires V700s, V710s, wherever the budget falls at :lol:
Kics 10mm spacers
17x9 5Zigen FN01R
Rolled Fenders
~3120lbs with 3/4 tank - Fat! No real weight reduction other than the battery.
New clutch after 17k miles lmao

I don't have any cool stickers on vinyl like our friend crystalhelix :)

From my thread on EvoM about fitting 275/40/17s on the Evo:

First, the weight of the wheel/tire package: Not light, but not insane. For reference, the 5Zigen on this scale was 17.5 lbs. The V700s are heavy as hell.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale013.jpg


A garage helps. I need a bigger one!
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale015.jpg


Roll the crap out of the front and rear fenders. Note the Kics 10mm spacers:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale017.jpg


This is the unloaded front driver's side:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale018.jpg

Tight clearance in the rear! Might have to raise it up a tad. We'll see.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale020.jpg

Fronts:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale021.jpg

For reference, a 245/45/17 tire I normally run on the street:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale016.jpg

A worn 255/40 Victo vs a shaved newer 275, big difference! :
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/TiresforSale022.jpg

Whats with all the evo drivers in here?

Is anyone on the board planning to run the Devens NT? The entry list is looking pretty sorry right about now and I only know of 1 other driver planning to run BSP. That makes 3 cars total.

If nobody is in I'll probably run in SM to at least challenge myself.

John

Thanks Matt....

Quick Question...Why Victoracers???? Why not 710's or Hoosiers???

Is it just for longevity????

thanks

Bill

Whats with all the evo drivers in here?

Is anyone on the board planning to run the Devens NT? The entry list is looking pretty sorry right about now and I only know of 1 other driver planning to run BSP. That makes 3 cars total.

If nobody is in I'll probably run in SM to at least challenge myself.

John

I tried to make that trip last year....(co-worker got hurt and couldn't go :()...But the only other Tour I am doing this year will be Peru...sorry...Next year will be for sure.....since me and the wife are going to Maine for a couple of weeks...;)

Bill

Whats with all the evo drivers in here?

Hey...uhhh... what are you doing here? At least I still own a Subie :lol: My DD is a Legacy. lmao


Is anyone on the board planning to run the Devens NT? The entry list is looking pretty sorry right about now and I only know of 1 other driver planning to run BSP. That makes 3 cars total.


I haven't decided yet. I'm gonna be down at the shore June 7-8th, so I haven't decided if I feel like making the trip up there in my underprepped car just so you and Kevin can beat me badly. :p

Thanks Matt....

Quick Question...Why Victoracers???? Why not 710's or Hoosiers???

Bill


I am fortunate that my fiancee comes with me to most events... and the Victos seem to last a lot longer with two drivers than the 710s. I am finding that hanging out with my friends and the woman at auto-x lately takes precedence over the competition... hence the slow tires. But I'm sure I'll get the itch back for fast tires soon.

The 295/35/17 Hoosier looks badass :devil:

Bumpity...


SO.... what's the general consensus - is the '07 STi faster than previous years? '06? '05?

Random recent Pictures:

Me. Slow compared to the guys below \/ \/ \/
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/IMG_6866_Fixed.jpg

Jay's 2003. He's an excellent competitor - very thorough and methodical. And fast.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/IMG_0346_Fixed.jpg

SM, not BSP. But fast nonetheless. Good luck beating him.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s236/Matt28NJ/IMG_0310_Fixed.jpg

Actually...I feel the 05/06 is faster...the 07 has some issues...even with the different gearing....I personally think a well prepped 06 is the ticket....but I have to stick with my 05 which is close.....but now steering angle sensor...which extenuates the dccd...

Bill

04.5 FTMFW...

I have to say that to make my 04 not feel like it's retarded...

I like the longer 2nd gear in the '07 STI for AX'ing ... but there was some odd major turbo lag. The fellow who's car I was driving was doing some UTEC tuning which might have contributed, but I've heard of the '07 turbo lag from another driver ... ProSolo Champ Max Hayter.

I drive a lot of '05 and '06 STI's and the '06's are typically slightly faster ... in Auto DCCD.

Keep in mind that you can update the '06 steering angle sensor into the lighter '05 chassis if you were so inclined ;)

what about the even lighterer 04 chasis?

Those 100 mm hubs/bearings don't last long when combined with fat R's

what about the even lighterer 04 chasis?

I hear they break more rear axles :D

I drive a lot of '05 and '06 STI's and the '06's are typically slightly faster ... in Auto DCCD.good to hear, since I drive an 06.. but im in STU

How much time can a Redone Diff makeup.....on a 60 sec course...I expect about 1 sec....I would assume that would be standard accross the board on other cars as well....

Is a front more preferable????
a Center???
or a rear...????


I am upgrading the rear...first...
The stock helical in front seems to work fine...

some other updates...
EVO...some like 23 mm front bars... and 25 mm rear bars...

typically C4 Vettes want a softer rear spring to gain traction...there is a fine balance on what power can be applied due to spring rates on the vette...softer rear=more power to ground...to stiff=spinning tires off corner...

Bill

... the Vette's also use as much as a half inch toe-in in back to help plant the rear under hard acceleration corner exit

I'd say that anything giving a full second worth of time that isn't a set of tires or a different driver is probably a bit of an overestimation. It might *feel* a lot faster and give more confidence, which of course will add some time but I don't think that it will be quite that large of a gain.

So the part itself; I'd say not. But if the part leads to a more planted/easier to drive/better to deal with car on course and thus ramps up driver confidence: Then that figure is absolutely possible. :)

-Biggly

I'd say that anything giving a full second worth of time that isn't a set of tires or a different driver is probably a bit of an overestimation. It might *feel* a lot faster and give more confidence, which of course will add some time but I don't think that it will be quite that large of a gain.

So the part itself; I'd say not. But if the part leads to a more planted/easier to drive/better to deal with car on course and thus ramps up driver confidence: Then that figure is absolutely possible. :)

-Biggly

I agree. 1 second for a upgraded diff on a 60 sec course is a bit overzealous.

really??? hmm..i figured a .25 sec for every big corner...

I really don't know what to expect...I know there WILL be some time there for sure tho...because I will be able to apply power and actually come off the corners..:)

Bill

Gearing question

What are the relative top speeds in 2nd gear for BSP vehicles...
EVO, 04 through 07 STi relatively..

How much longer is the 07 STi 2nd than my 04 second? If y'all can save me some research effort that would be nice...

At this point I need to get a better understanding about how to surmount the EVO...

Gearing question

What are the relative top speeds in 2nd gear for BSP vehicles...
EVO, 04 through 07 STi relatively..

How much longer is the 07 STi 2nd than my 04 second? If y'all can save me some research effort that would be nice...

At this point I need to get a better understanding about how to surmount the EVO...



On stock tires a 04-06 STI's 2nd gear tops out at about 56-57. The 07 STi's 2nd goes to about 64-65.

that's considerable...damn..

my 06 STi on 245/40/17's in STU tops at about 55mph, and thats based off Traqmate

My 05 sti in AS with 275/40-17 gets to about 58-59

my 05 tops out 57.4 via GPS/MaxQdata before it bangs on the rev limiter...with 275/40/17 Kumho 710's

the gearing is significant...for sure..there is a thread somewhere on what is needed and how much it costs....only he was building his for 1/4 mile stuff...

let me see if I can find it...

Found one thread....there is another that I am specifically looking for...tho...but this one will help in the meantime...

07 to 04 STi gear info (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1217276)

...and to think of all the JDM fanbois that rushed to install 4.44 gears into their STIs back in '04... :lol:

I'd say that anything giving a full second worth of time that isn't a set of tires or a different driver is probably a bit of an overestimation. It might *feel* a lot faster and give more confidence, which of course will add some time but I don't think that it will be quite that large of a gain.


I think it is highly car dependent. A Civic that doesn't have any wheelspin problems in STS trim is not going to gain much (if anything) by adding a diff in STX, except for the added weight and steering effort (of course). A SRT4 (made before the factory Quaiffe) that is traction-limited everywhere is going to gain a ton.

In Bill's case, he has zero droop travel in the rear from his coilover design. This means that the inside rear is constantly in the air when you pick up the throttle, and in that condition he has an open diff. IMO (and this is obviously course dependent) he will pick up at least a second on a Topeka-style course. Having driven his car on the Valdosta practice course, I think it could gain even more than that. I was as fast in an A Stock STi as I was in his car because of the wheel lift/open diff issue. It would literally go to an open condition when I turned into slalom cones, and it was a big problem coming out of turnaround elements.

^^^^^ Thanks Joel.......exactly what I was thinkin....I couldn't have said it better myself...and thanks for being so kind with my cheap ass suspension..;)

Bill

Wait, no droop travel in the rear?? :eek: Well in that case the diff would definitely make a big difference! Important minor detail don't you think? :lol: :)

-Biggly

Well, Lets just say...having Diffs done definately makes a difference...Leibers championship RED Evo was a the Peru Tour...it had the front and rear Diff's done...and you could see the acceleration coming off the corners...it seems that is one thing that is pretty common on all the fully prepped cars..

Weight is another thing....Leiber's SM EVO weighed in @2990
the EX- Leiber Red EVO RS weighed in @ 2970
Justins BSP STI about the same...
Mine was a pig @ 3239lbs full interior...trailer hitch...etc..
couple of other notables:
a GT3 Cup Car weighed 2250
I was the 'only' Kumho driver in BSP everyone else was on Hoosiers...*better Contingency for the Hoosiers also*

it was fun to watch some of the 'national champs' work on their car...and how a 1/10th of a sec is important...I am usually happy to be in the same zip code but testing is testing..:)

Bill

Mine was a pig @ 3239lbs full interior...trailer hitch...etc..l

Why is your BSP car so heavy? I weighed our A-stock STi this weekend, and it weighed 3195lbs on Howards scales, in stock-trim, Perrin catback, trailer hitch, and 1/4 tank of gas.

--
Brian

Why is your BSP car so heavy? I weighed our A-stock STi this weekend, and it weighed 3195lbs on Howards scales, in stock-trim, Perrin catback, trailer hitch, and 1/4 tank of gas.

--
Brian

Harness bar..25lbs
huge sway's...another 10lbs
Larger I/C ...+7 lbs
Misc crap....dash, center console...infinity Bass link(mounted).....trailer hitch...

most of the ones I saw were right about 3150-3175ish in SM trim (no rear seat)....

Bill

most of the ones I saw were right about 3150-3175ish in SM trim (no rear seat)....

Bill

I was behind Chi's SM car at the scales, and his was under 3000lbs, ~2971lbs IIRC.

Were you in your car when you weighed it? ;)

--
Brian

I was behind Chi's SM car at the scales, and his was under 3000lbs, ~2971lbs IIRC.

Were you in your car when you weighed it? ;)
--
Brian

:lol: :lol: :lol:


I wish...:(

Our car, with full cage came in at 3200 and change. Don't remember the number exactly but it pails in comparison to my personal WRX which came in at 2950 at last years nationals in Topeka with the A/C still intact.

Mine was a pig @ 3239lbs full interior

That's in the ballpark of what James' car weighed, IIRC.

FYI - the scales were "magically" different for some people out there, even between Saturday and Sunday. The whole setup should really be level and properly reset before each weighing.

Luckily I had longacre scales at my disposal all last winter :)

I could probably loose 6-7 lbs in gauges and displays, lol. You'll see when I get around to posting my in car vids from Peru, lol.

So ....new topic...what kind of consistent G-forces do we think the competition is pulling? In Peru a friend data logged me at 1.3 and I think some peaks at 1.7 ish lateral. Since I don't have any fancy equipment of my own I was interested in what everyone else had to say. I think there is room in my car for improvement as the alignment isn't spot on at the moment. Just wondering what the EVO's and Vette's and M3's can hold down..

I peak at 1.7gs at Gwinnett Fairgrounds with 315s. Brian's car on 295s was peaking at 1.5gs on the same lot. I was at about 1.55gs when I was on 285s.

Brian's car has freshly chopped fenders and should be at least 3/4" lower with no rubbing. Anybody need their fenders cut? I am a pro now.

Can't wait to see the Aug. Fasttrack and see what we are up against for next year...

Bill

Bill - nothing is changing for 08. All submissals and changes had to come out either in the July Fastrack or before to take effect for 08.

I'm guessing that the August Fastrack will just be confirming that nothing is changing.

OK, here goes. This is my thought on what it would take to win a National Championship in SM, unless you are a phenominal driver who can make due with less. Starting from the ground up:

WHEELS AND TIRES
The standard is 285/30/18 Hoosiers on an 18x9.5-10 inch rim. Wider is probably better. If you can cut the fenders and/or install a widebody and run 315 or 335 tires, I think that would be best. Of course go with the lightest, strongest wheels possible for your budget. FN01R-C's are popular because they are inexpensive and average weight. If someone can find me an 18x10 that weights 17 pounds or less, me love you long time ;)

SUSPENSION
It's quality, not quantity. You can have a big $$ set of shocks, but if they are not optimized you will get whooped by someone with perfectly tuned JICs. Unfortunately, at the National level, there are not alot of guys who will just give you the setup they are running because they have hundreds of hours and lots of $$ of testing invested into it. All I can recommend is to become friends with someone who knows alot about suspension and work with them/learn from them. Trial and error. Run your shocks full soft. See how the car feels. Run them full hard. See how the car feels. Then work in from the extremes. Most folks run a rear sway bar, some a front sway bar. Some crazy guys :) run no sway bar and super stiff spring. The combinations are limitless. You want your car as low as possible to lower the CG, but you need to me mindfull of roll centers. The new Whiteline Roll Center kit is looking promising. . . My suggestion - talk with Navid, Andy, John, Mark, Eric, etc. and learn as much as you can as far as what it takes to make the EVO stick under AX conditions.

POWER
MY FAVORITE! It is my opinion that you will need between 400 and 450WHP to win Nationals in an EVO. Some guys run less, some guys run ALOT more. I, personally am in the middle of that range. Too much low end torque is not always good. If you have really hard hitting power coming out of corners you will spin tires, as the EVO is very prone to lifting wheels and getting light on the inside tires. This may be able to be resolved with suspension work, but so far I have not heard of anyone perfecting it. A 2.3L stroker with a TME turbo is probably not the best way - too much TQ and not enough top end. A 2.0L with a 20G variant, or possibly a 2.0 or 2.3 with a 50 trim I feel will be optimal. I recommend a built motor that can rev to over 8000rpms. Instead of riding the rev limiter in 2nd gear (or *gasp* shifting to 3rd) and losing time and accelleration, get a built motor and take it all the way to 9000 in 2nd gear. With the 285's that should get you to about 75mph. Alternatively, you could get a higher gear (lower numerically) so that you can go faster for the same RPM. Smooth power is key. You don't want compressor surge, BOV stuttering, or anything like that at part throttle. The throttle input should feel as though it is directly liked to boost pressure (just how a stock EVO feels).

WEIGHT SAVINGS
There really isn't a WHOLE lot you can do. Start with an RS so you have the aluminum roof and no ABS crap. Lose the back seats and rear seat belt stuff. Get light weight racing seats. Get harnesses that attach to the rear seat mounting points rather than a harness bar. Harness bars are pretty heavy, and high up in the car. Get rid of AC and stereo stuff. Light weight clutch, carbon driveshaft, brake rotors, wheels, etc. to save rotating weight. Consider the stock FMIC - those big aftermarket ones weigh a ton. Consider a small radiator - you will save weight on the radiator itself, plus water weighs like 9 pounds per gallon or something.

AERODYNAMICS
To be the fastest in a big heavy car like the EVO you need every advantage you can get. Run as big of front splitter as allowed. The rules for splitters and wings are changing for next year, so keep an eye out for what the new limits will be. Some people set up the car to be loose in slow corners to help rotation, then use a big rear wing to stabilize it in high speed corners. But, having too much rear downforce without matching traction in the front is not going to be good. Make sure your car is balanced. Once again, run as big of a front splitter as possible, and one that is properly designed. Just a flat piece of FRP or carbon bolted under your front end may give you some benefit, but is not optimal. Take a look at the Voltex big splitter on the Cyber EVO for one that looks like a well thought out design.
As a side note, I hope that the SCCA "keeps up with the times" and does not continue to shy away from aero modifications, especially in Mod and Prepared classes (including SMod). One look through the pictures from JOnDemand's trip to the Time Attacks in Japan shows just how prevelent this is in other parts of the world. I think America is playing catch-up a little bit in the tuner car aero field. . .

DRIVETRAIN
There is a lot of variation here. You may be able to get away with a VCU center diff and stock F+R LSDs. You may see some folks trying the Cusco 35/65 center diff. Right now my car is tail happy enough, don't think I want to experiment with MORE rear power! Currently I have a Quaife FLSD, stock center and rear. Even with the Quaife I still have trouble with spinning the inside front tire coming out of corners. If I had the money I would be running Cusco diffs in the front and center and a TRE prepped stock rear diff. Never really driven an ACD car, so I can't comment on that. From what I have read it will probably be better than the VCU for autocross, more tunability potential, but heavier and more complicated. Stock tranny is fine. Probably won't break one at the power we will be running. Lightweight clutch, flywheel, and driveshaft will all get you from corner to corner quicker.

Please feel free to add anything I may have overlooked. . .

EVOlutionary
Some of this will cross over to BSP..:)

That's a good write up although most of that is known...I agree about dialing a good dollar suspension in. I just got in some fresh meats and I will be doing a TnT soon hopefully with some data-aquisition to optimize. The rear diff is working well now that it is broken in. 315's are sitting in my garage, I will likely be massaging the front fenders to clear the little extra the hoosiers give me, and I have 4-5 events before Nationals to finalize everything. Cross your fingers I am hoping to be dangerous at nationals.

Cross your fingers I am hoping to be dangerous at nationals.Fingers crossed - go get 'em Justin! :devil:

That's a good write up although most of that is known...I agree about dialing a good dollar suspension in. I just got in some fresh meats and I will be doing a TnT soon hopefully with some data-aquisition to optimize. The rear diff is working well now that it is broken in. 315's are sitting in my garage, I will likely be massaging the front fenders to clear the little extra the hoosiers give me, and I have 4-5 events before Nationals to finalize everything. Cross your fingers I am hoping to be dangerous at nationals.

Yep...Go baby, go....Glad the diff is doing good...and your getting used to it...
well that should complete most of the setup stuff for you...:)...Good luck and you know I am pullin for ya...:)...oh yeah...rumor of the day....STOMPY is going to be alive soon......just something I heard..

Bill

Yeah, even though it's the beginning of august, it doesn't leave you much time to get really detailed about everything. I am just glad I don't run tuesday morning at 8am this year...I am looking forward to seeing stompy, haven't see the car since Toledo in 2005 in person.

That's a good write up although most of that is known...I agree about dialing a good dollar suspension in. I just got in some fresh meats and I will be doing a TnT soon hopefully with some data-aquisition to optimize. The rear diff is working well now that it is broken in. 315's are sitting in my garage, I will likely be massaging the front fenders to clear the little extra the hoosiers give me, and I have 4-5 events before Nationals to finalize everything. Cross your fingers I am hoping to be dangerous at nationals.

315's :D

Can you give me any info about the rear diff ? I am looking to getting my rear replaced for next season. That and I wanna run 17x10's with at least 295's. BSP is addicting :lol: :devil:

315's :D

Can you give me any info about the rear diff ? I am looking to getting my rear replaced for next season. That and I wanna run 17x10's with at least 295's. BSP is addicting :lol: :devil:

PM me....I have a custom builder I use...it just takes for friggen EVER...he built Justins' and Stompy's...I am still waiting for mine:mad:

^ Gotcha... I sent a PM out ;)

315's :D

Can you give me any info about the rear diff ? I am looking to getting my rear replaced for next season. That and I wanna run 17x10's with at least 295's. BSP is addicting :lol: :devil:

Talk to Bill, it will come when it does, Bill can't do much about it...

Can anyone comment on their BSP ride heights?

I think my ride-heights with teh 315's up front is pretty high like 14 and 14.5 ish in the rear.

Off hand does anyone know the stock STi ride heights F/R from hub center to fender lip?

I am thinking that next year I may have a go at putting 285's "in" the fenders so I can get the car lower but I am also worried about ruining the supension geometry. Just looking to gather some info.

I was over on EVOM and they have an amazing STU setup (there's a good SM one by Mr.Hoops as well) thread with tons of good info and input on their cars. This thread is the closest thing we have to a good setup note thread.

Although not a BSP car, my SM wrx is 14 front and rear with 17x10's
I think that's about as low as I can go without starting to seriously cut into the fender.

Duncan

Picture of the car at the above ride heights. Could probably lower the front a little, however don't think there's much room in the back :)

Duncan

http://www.ellisfamilyalbum.com/Car%20stuff/My%20Subaru%20Impreza%20Project/Autocross%20August%2008%20ACU-4/slides/IMG_5313.JPG

Those CCW's are sexay! If/when I ever leave AS, I want those wheels.

I'm sure you posted somewhere else, but what is your suspension setup? The rear looks ultra close - doesn't even look like I could slide a business card between the tire and fender. :p

Justin

Suspension is JIC coilovers, stock FLT-A2 struts, with eibach racing 8" springs, 650 front, 550 rear, and 2 inch helpers on both.

Whiteline front and rear bars. 22 on the front, 24 on the back
Whilteline adjustable lateral links
STI control arms
6 gun bje's

Duncan

and then 4 months went by...Nationals is over again and we still chase EVO's and Grand Nationals and S2k's...

I have a few questions as hopefully this winter I can go ground up on my car again and I just need to try to gather some more info.

primary questions on the fast EVO's

What kind of camber are they running F/R?
What is the rear camber curve like with the DA suspension?
What are the roll center's like in comparison to ours?
Caster? Most of what I noticed at nationals is that all the EVO's were only running camber plates w/o caster adjustment (remember you can use bushings as well, so I wasn't sure)
Anyone know if they like a little toe out in the front or rear?
Are they running aftermarket differentials? Front/Rear Center, info appreciated...
Has anyone got any information on why they are so damn fast, lol? Now that Berry has stepped in it seems they are even faster, lol.
Is there hope for the STi in BSP? (Looking forward to seeing how AutoWRXer's car performs next year)

I am bored, and at work, looking for some brainercise..

[QUOTE=crystalhelix;19780100]
Is there hope for the STi in BSP? (Looking forward to seeing how AutoWRXer's car performs next year)
QUOTE]

Come on now Justin. There is hope for the sti in BSP. we both had a bad couple of days and joel's car is even faster than ours (once it runs again). I just now got my car fixed from nats and the next year will be spent trying to get faster. I think that the three of us can represent the Sti very well next year. Looking forward to seeing you there.

Brian

Ack....I know that, I just wish the autocross gods would send me the fast spec for dialing in my beast. What I need to do is sit down and come up with a test and tune DOE to dial in the car, hopefully a couple of my friends that can help me out. I am more into the driving than the setting up.

That would be awesome if you could do a DOE. I don't have the time or the money to do a true DOE now but that would definitely be awesome. I have found some literature that details the process if you're interested in it let me know.

<---Mechanical Engineer (aka, nerd) DOE is in the blood.

I'll be a degreed M.E. on December 14th. yeah we're all nerds.

Has anyone witnessed Jason Uyeda's S2000 at an event? Got pics? I heard it was pretty nasty. :devil:

and then 4 months went by...Nationals is over again and we still chase EVO's and Grand Nationals and S2k's...

I have a few questions as hopefully this winter I can go ground up on my car again and I just need to try to gather some more info.

primary questions on the fast EVO's

What kind of camber are they running F/R?
What is the rear camber curve like with the DA suspension?
What are the roll center's like in comparison to ours?
Caster? Most of what I noticed at nationals is that all the EVO's were only running camber plates w/o caster adjustment (remember you can use bushings as well, so I wasn't sure)
Anyone know if they like a little toe out in the front or rear?
Are they running aftermarket differentials? Front/Rear Center, info appreciated...
Has anyone got any information on why they are so damn fast, lol? Now that Berry has stepped in it seems they are even faster, lol.
Is there hope for the STi in BSP? (Looking forward to seeing how AutoWRXer's car performs next year)

I am bored, and at work, looking for some brainercise..


Roll centers and camber curves are just as bad as the Subarus. They run bump steer bushings in the back of the car because of excessive toe gain under bump. Caster is over-rated - the ratio of camber gain to jacking is nowhere near beneficial. Stock front and center diffs - stock rear will spin inside tire with too much power. I think Berry's is an aftermarket rear but most Evo's just run a stock one. The biggest differences is that they are all running custom valved Ohlins dampers, dual rate spring setups, they are an inch or two lower, stock front bar - ginormous rear bars - softer springs. And clearly they have more power with better gearing.

An 05 STi with 07 motor and tranny on 18's stands the best chance. Dropped as far as can be with clutch type aftermarket rear diff.

Justin I just picked up some new books and I'll be reading them over the winter - be prepared for some off the wall shiznit in the spring. Glad to hear about the Enkei's by the way :) Its about freaking time.

Has anyone witnessed Jason Uyeda's S2000 at an event? Got pics? I heard it was pretty nasty. :devil:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/oasist/Finale%202007/22.jpg

Taken by Craig Wilcox at the ProSolo Finale.

Roll centers and camber curves are just as bad as the Subarus. They run bump steer bushings in the back of the car because of excessive toe gain under bump. Caster is over-rated - the ratio of camber gain to jacking is nowhere near beneficial. Stock front and center diffs - stock rear will spin inside tire with too much power. I think Berry's is an aftermarket rear but most Evo's just run a stock one. The biggest differences is that they are all running custom valved Ohlins dampers, dual rate spring setups, they are an inch or two lower, stock front bar - ginormous rear bars - softer springs. And clearly they have more power with better gearing.

An 05 STi with 07 motor and tranny on 18's stands the best chance. Dropped as far as can be with clutch type aftermarket rear diff.

Justin I just picked up some new books and I'll be reading them over the winter - be prepared for some off the wall shiznit in the spring. Glad to hear about the Enkei's by the way :) Its about freaking time.

I agree... well at least a 07 trans would be great, engine even better I suppose. Are we really that much off their power numbers? At least we ought to have em in the low end torque department... I do agree 18's and LOW would be helpful. I plan to get on a staggered 18" setup and get my car as low as possible. Run my giant 32mm solid fsb with no bar and RCE t2's :)

I am in the middle of re-vamp on my car....redoing the suspension (coilovers/camberplates...) and stuff...:)

rollcenters are important...more important is how low an EVO can get to stuff the tires under the fenderwells....I think that is significant..plus their geometry on the suspension is better...

So who's buying an 08 STi...:lol: (At least the wheels should match up....everything else????)

Bill

I thought you were going back to stock bill..

I thought you were going back to stock bill..
+1 :confused: :confused: :confused:

I thought you were going back to stock bill..

yes, but in an '08 STi..

I thought you were going back to stock bill..

+1 :confused: :confused: :confused:

yes, but in an '08 STi..

yes...for the time being....however...I am considering my options...;)...

and no...not in a lifetimes of fools will I switch out my Pretty...mean...05 for a Fugly 08....no way...no how...;):lol:


Bill

If anyone is interested, there is an interesting thread on SCCAforums about "fixing BSP" since these damn rally cars are killing the class. Lots of expert opinions on tuning potential of STis from Camaro and M3 owners. Don't you guys realize that you should have unlimited horsepower from your unlimited boost?

Perhaps we should be driving Buick Grand Nationals.

Chris H.