I would like the boards advice for some ideas on rollcages.

What are the regulations on bolt in cages eg. cusco when competing in RallyAmerica or NASA?

Also what are the regulations on underbody protection and materials allowed for that pourpose.

your best bet is to go to the rallyamerica sire and download the reg's..

most people here seem to agree the cusco cage isn't more thena show piece although it is used in competition in japan and in the us for time attack.

For rally you really want a welded in custom cage

+1 on Cusco being a show cage. i personally wouldnt trust my life with it. i wouldnt even go with a bolt in roll cage for special stage rallying.

like STiShawn said, look into the rule book, and have a custom cage built to spec. better safe then sorry, right? good luck.

What about the stand21 cages?

For Rally America, be sure to check the latest 2007 rules. There has been a change from last year to align RA rules with FIA rules. If the Stand 21 cage is FIA homologated, then it is okay for RA. But having a cage made is liable to be better especially concerning fitment.

www.rallispec.com

They have built quite a few Rally Cars and I am sure they would be willing to help point you in the right direction.

Good Luck.

considering they use the Cusco cage in time attack events, and in Japan, it cant be that bad.

not full welded rally cage quality no doubt.. but better than nothing in the event of a roll over!

and yes yes i know its unsafe for street driving due to possible head injury without a helmet

Well i would just like to have some advice on this and thanks for the words guys.

The cusco and stand21 cages are pretty decent but i am not sure of the legality of it. And its for eventual rally use.

bolt-in is not R-A legal; they are trying to get rid of even grandfathered ones in previously logbooked cars.

bolt-in MAY be NASA legal, but unlikely to be OK for new build

when in doubt, build to FIA spec...when you crash, you (and your mom, wife and family, friends, etc) will be glad you didn't cheap out and go with a wannabe pipe set like Cusco. look at Safety Devices or Custom Cages for up to date rally-specific cage kits.

my partner T-boned a tree at 60 mph and walked away. drivetrain and front sheet metal were toast, but shell was still usable. 03 WRX with Custom Cages FIA kit. check our website for onboard footage of same. :eek:

what car is this for?

Dave G
www.lastditchracing.com

considering they use the Cusco cage in time attack events, and in Japan, it cant be that bad.

You can run Redline's time attack events without a cage or rollbar (unless its a convertible), so I don't think it proves much.

bolt-in is not R-A legal; they are trying to get rid of even grandfathered ones in previously logbooked cars.

bolt-in MAY be NASA legal, but unlikely to be OK for new build

when in doubt, build to FIA spec...when you crash, you (and your mom, wife and family, friends, etc) will be glad you didn't cheap out and go with a wannabe pipe set like Cusco. look at Safety Devices or Custom Cages for up to date rally-specific cage kits.

my partner T-boned a tree at 60 mph and walked away. drivetrain and front sheet metal were toast, but shell was still usable. 03 WRX with Custom Cages FIA kit. check our website for onboard footage of same. :eek:

what car is this for?

Dave G
www.lastditchracing.com (http://www.lastditchracing.com)

Its for a home build gp.n 2002 WRX (im rethinking this since your post in the other thread, and it did make sence) that i want to try and get some more seat time and different multiple surface experience with before i possibly move back to jamaica.

One of my closest friends survived a hard hit in his gp.A3 Pug 206.. flat on long strait and lost pace with his notes and with a 3R and a small 6L runoff so you are off the stage if you have difficulty... never the less he ran off stage down the runoff into the back of a Evo with a blown engine with the estimated impact speed of 85> mph. Driver and nav survived with driver only with some bruses and nav with a broken rib. THANK GOD!

Since then he has purchased a 206 wagon and has a custom cages cage installed so what you said really struck a cord.

One of my closest friends survived a hard hit in his gp.A3 Pug 206.. into the back of a Evo with a blown engine with the estimated impact speed of 85> mph. Driver and nav survived with driver only with some bruses and nav with a broken rib. THANK GOD!

Since then he has purchased a 206 wagon and has a custom cages cage installed so what you said really struck a cord.

Ouch. litle car like 206 x 85mph / parked Evo butt = bad bad juju !

we rented an A3 206 Cup spec car at Rally Mexico last year, and it was a good little buzz bomb and surprisingy quick but the spec cage sucked.

highly recommend Custom Cages kit for the 02-03 WRX -- Fia spec, GpN legal even where they're picky about that stuff (unlike US)

DG

Agree with Dave on the Gr.N Custom Cages kit for the GD Impreza. That Cusco bit is amusing on the internet, but goodness I'd stay away from it in the real world.

- Christian

Don't look for advice here, it's all in the rules, go read them! Come back with questions about the rules themselves (i.e. "I see that section X.XX.XX says that you need bla bla, what does that mean?"), then we'll have plenty of specifics to talk about! If you would be taking the car back to Jamaica make sure it would pass the rules there too, otherwise have a plan for selling it here. It would be tough to sell a caged car here if the cage isn't 100% within RA or NASA rules (including any announced changes that would take effect in 2008 or beyond).

The best advice? Don't build yourself a rally car if you aren't already intimately involved in the sport and very knowledgeable of the rules. You'll waste time and money trying to figure it out. If money is an issue, buy a used rally beater (with a current logbook) for $5k, rally it, sell it for $4k next season.

Either way, you have a lot more research to do before you'll get meaningful answers.

Good luck!

^That sounds fair. Thanks for all the replies guys :)

There are a lot of intricacies in choosing the right cage. For one, the Safety (I don't think you meant Stand, they make suits) 21 is a steel version of the Cusco which is Cr-mo. The Safety 21 cage has only 2mm of wall thickness. Just because the cage is used in some time attack car doesn't make it safe. The standards in Japan are very relaxed. The bends on the two brands are identical. The cages are both NOT legal for SCCA, NASA, RALLY AMERICA, and most time trial clubs because they lack:

Diagonal bar on main hoop
A pillar bars are bent around dash making them into a crush zone
The tubing is 1.5" which is too small in diameter for cars over 3000lbs by popular rules.


Things get more confusing when considering a true competition cage. By anyone's standard the FIA spec cage is the epitome of safety and design. Well, not by SCCA's new standard. The SCCA has told us directly that they might not sign off an FIA cage for road racing as the door bars may not be legal, add to that T45 (the UK cr-mo equivalent) isn't recognized or automatically approved by SCCA standards. (this conversation pertained to road racing) we have had no issues and heard of none with FIA cages and Rally America.

What you'll need to have is a 1.75" main hoop, diagonal bar and harness bars and most likely 1.75" diameter on the rest of the cage with a .120 wall thickness made from DOM tubing. That's Drawn over Mandrel. That and having the local tech steward come inspect your design layout and then inspect during the build process to make sure that you're not running astray.

T2 rules are more complicated for SCCA than other classes as the new NASCAR door bars are being mandated, but not according to every steward I've talked to. They won't approve t45 here in New England even if it's FIA approved.

I have a custom cages FIA cage that isn't FIA anymore because I changed the design a little bit on my own knowing that I wouldn't need to fall back on FIA standards to get me through tech.


Alex Grabau
Dent Sport Garage
781-551-3399