Okay, I'm seriously thinking about making a CARB legal turbo kit for the RS. I expect the cost to be around $3k - $5k.

How many of you guys/gals would be willing and able to purchase a kit like that?

I figure it would be a great place to start with other mods because it will have the California EO number on it, so if you get pulled over it's LEGAL! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

Lemme know...

-James

I think you'll have a real hard time with that one because our cars don't seem to allow for chip swaps in the ECU, which is what is controlling the emissions really. The user will have too much adjustability and it will not pass CARB certification.

Note: the above is based on what I know about CARB and is not intended as a proven fact, but rather what I believe to be fact.

It will never happen. Sorry. Sad but true. It is more likely your big ass dog starts to sing Frank Sinatra songs. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif

Then how come there are all sorts of CARB legal add-a-turbo kits for the Hondas? They are pretty straight forward - no electronics and no tampering with the ECU - just a RRPPR and the usual other components, and not much else.

Feedback is appreciated! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif

Oh man, that's too funny... You should throw a tux on that dog, and give him a mic! Lets see what he can do! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Umm... yeah, CARB, gimme CARB!

Man, you guys are all a bunch of jokers! Come on, is anyone interested? http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif Guess not... http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/frown.gif

RS25, the setup you describe works fine on 00-01 (and probably 02) RSs. I have no idea about CARB rules, but you only need to mess with the ECU above 5psi.

Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, you got to start somewhere, and getting the hardware on the car is the biggest step. Once it's on, you're good to go.

Maybe you want to upgrade the turbo later? At least you don't have to pull the whole SYSTEM if you get caught.

That's where I am going. More like I want a turbo, and I want to be legal!

I would definitely be interested. I think there would actually be more interest than what is showing up so far in this post. I guess most people are aware of the difficulties and cost of getting something CARB approved. Jackson Racing turned down a request to build a supercharger for our cars based on the cost of r/d, approval and the limited number of Impreza RS's compared to say the Honda market. NO profit. Plus with the low boost of 5psi some people might want more power than the stock ECU will allow.

But if you are willing to flip the bill then by all means, go for it. CARB approval is a decent minimum guarantee that the system works. And that is something we would all like to see. I would be on the waiting list. Even a low pressure turbo would make me happy. I personally don't need the 300hp that most are going for with the WRX mods.

[This message has been edited by Arnie (edited May 31, 2001).]

James, i know how you feel living here in CA with the rest of us, but i doubt getting carb EO stickers are that easy. If it was, HKS, Greddy, Apexi will have turbo kits for every honduh and every other rice cars out there instead of just a few hands full with carb EO. It is costly from what i've heard to do this.

I'm intersted in this... lets see if we can make this work.

Taken from the CARB site:

http://www.rs25.com/EOListing.htm

If you call that a "handful" then I am amazed. If these guys can do it, why can't I?




[This message has been edited by RS25.com (edited May 31, 2001).]

Hell that is quite a list. Go for it!

That's the right attitude, go for it.

Like was said maybe a low boost system that require no ECU upgrades or piggyback will get it out the door with ~ 190-205hp. Then let the buyer take his/her chances with upgrades just like they are now with the WRX.

Albert

I'd be really interested, but $5k before install is too rich for my blood. Even $3k is pushing it. Though I know turbos cost money.

But, no matter what, I'd be much more likely to buy a CARB approved setup over a non-approved setup. And I actually like the idea of driving a clean vehicle. Being able to get more power w/o poluting more sounds good to me. Good luck, God speed, and keep us posted. Our prayers are w/ you. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

James, remind me to talk to you about CARB certification when I come over.

a CARB turbo would be great. emissions here in calif is a bitch (as we all know)... i am curious as to where the current CA turbo charged imprezas go when they need the emissions test???? but it is either a CARB certified or a US WRX engine swap to be turbo and legal.

James! Stop kicking my ass in autocrosses! Damn you and your lucky charm....blah! j/k http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif

CARB Certified turbo....oooo *drool*....too bad I got no $$$ http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/frown.gif

I just got off the phone with the CARB people - they are hell of cool and professional! I talked to the wrong person, so had to leave a message for another person. Hope to hear from them later today... http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

Sweet! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

Hurry up!!!http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/wink.gif
I'd be interested in a CARB certified turbo or S/C that can put out 230+ hp.

I think you can still do engine swaps and such on your own and make them legal. It's just that you're on your own when dealing with the "smog referee". I know guys here in So Cal, who've done swaps with their 4x4's and it was like a full-time job for 6 weeks just hassling with the car to get it passed. The install has to be real professional and of course, it has to run clean.

I would be interested. Go for it. I would rather see a turbo kit with up to 7-10 psi. At only 5 psi I would realy have think about the 3-5 thousand dollar cost being worth it.

Realistically the kit would be low boost - 5psi or so - and without any electronics.

But then that opens up a whole huge window for modifications.

What is stopping me (and probably others) from doing any turbo kit at all is the prospect of having to remove it ALL to get smogged. And risks of getting caught and having to remove it. You get the idea.

But imagine if you had a kit that was smog legal. Yeah, low boost, but it's legal...

All the sudden you want to add a different turbo? GO for it. Even if you do get caught, the swap out is minimal. Add a secondary ECU? Same story. FMIC? Injectors? Think of the possibilities!

I can handle that idea. Personally, I want low compression pistons, an FJO ECU, etc. For me, pistons are an obvious too-big item, but how will anyone be able to tell they are in there? The ECU? Good luck spotting that with my EO numbers on everything else.

So yeah, the cost is higher, but how much would it cost to remove and re-install it all just once? Does it justify the cost? Probably pretty close. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

What would they print the EO number on?

I dunno, but I'll find out - looks like sometime tomorrow I'll have more info.

I can't imagine it would be every part, but even if it were, that's not a big deal.

If a low boost system has any change of getting certified the "lack of boost" is the price you pay to play. Just think, after certification the upgrades are almost endless.

I can't see why anyone would complain that a 5psi CARB system is not worth up to $5K. If that too much for anyone, that person should try and get their own system developed, and certified for less than $5k.

Edit : Sorry to be so abrupt, but when I had the funds for a SC/TC 2 years ago nothing came thru, now I can only dream of what could have been. A carb certified system for the RS is not impossible, it's just almost impossible. As long as there is a slim chance the effort should be supported and encouraged. my .02c

Albert

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited June 01, 2001).]

Exactly. From what I can tell from the (short) conversation I had with the wrong person at CARB, getting certification will be "several thousand dollars." So if I put down the few thousand dollars, then put together the kit and mark it up say $1 to $1.5k it's still less expensive than anyone doing a one-off kit for themselves. Hopefully I can generate enough interest to sell at least 10 kits so I can break even and end up getting a little extra cash in pocket, and do everyone a favor.

Plus, you don't have to try and get certified yourself. You don't really want that hassle do you?

I would be very interested. I'm sure all of us in CA don't wanna have to deal w/ all the BS regarding emissions. Go for it!

Now the next question is what exactly do you need to do to achieve CARB EO and is it a financial possibility for an individual?

-Jon

If a turbo kit was CARB approved I'd be more inclined to purchase one eventhough I don't live in CA and I'm pretty sure that IL emission regs are not as strigent.

-myk

Intersting idea, but Imprezer is right. If you look at that list of turbo kits with EO numbers, count up how many turbo kits there are for CARS that are model 96 or later (OBDII). It is a very difficult thing to do, which is why no one has done it.

Then I guess they are just a bunch of woosies, huh?

"Too hard, can't do it, why bother trying..."

That may be their motto, but that's not MY motto. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

I guess so. Go show them how it's done. Good luck.

Just talked to the CARB people. There is NO COST to the state for the certification, but I do have to pay testing fees at an independant research outfit in Hayward. They will ask to have the kit installed on the "worse-case scenario" car then test it.

Unless they pick a 2000, someone is going to have to loan me their car and get a turbo kit installed.

Can we say "At cost and free labor?" http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

I don't have the money now, but I am going to start saving. Hopefully by the time those turbo's are available, I will have the money. But yeah, I would buy one.

-Andy

Would worst case be a '99 w/ the dreaded MAF and fully stock drivetrain from airbox to tailpipe, and 31k miles? If so, guess what I've got. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

With my luck, yes. And I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) because of the MAF any blow-off has to be re-directed back into the intake stream to maintain the proper A/F ratio, where this is not the case with MAP cars.

Or not? I dunno. Someone enlighten me so I don't have to SEARCH! I'm lazy today. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

You sir are an entreprenieur,am i close on the spelling? do it do it do it.Make it nice to look at, easy(ish) to install, totally all inclusive parts wise and insructions and you will do well. Price is a matter of quality. Good luck

Well, in case any of you have not already looked at my web site and my basic direction, the kit will be built by using as many Subaru factory parts as possible. I suspect the only real issues will be the downpipe, but that is unconfirmed at this point.

The biggest advantages that I see are compatibility, availability, and longevity of the kit.

All the parts will be available at your local Subaru dealer, so we know they should all fit because they are not "one-off" custom pieces.

They can be ordered and probably received reasonably quickyl.

If or when parts wear out or break, the end user can simply go to their local Subaru dealer (or Subaruparts.com, whatever) and order a replacement and maintain CARB certification.

I like that idea because I know that parts tend to wear out over time. Custom exhaust routing, custom intercoolers, one-off turbochargers... they all have a probability of breaking, and then you have to fix them. You can't cheaply replace them, because they were custom. But factory stuff you can probably find used, or buy again new.

That's my thoughts...

Well just claim the kit is for 2000-2001 RS's only, which is the truth in anycase, as the 98 and 99 would need a "different" kit due to the changes in drivetrain.

Hi all,

I believe that the MY00 and 01 RS would be your worse case Turbo test subject. This is due to it having higher compression and MAP instead of MAF. With MAP it reads in the manifold so is subject to boost, as with MAF (i.e. MY98/99) the sensor is located on the intake (before the filter). I believe the WRX uses a MAF for this reason.

If I am not wrong, people who have Turbo'd MY00/01 have had some problems with the car cutting out, or loosing power due to the Stock ECU registering a TOO high Intake Manifold pressure brought on by boost, and attemped to adjust for this. The correction was to use a aftermarket ECU (like TecII) to correct this.

So back to the original subject. Since you plan on using as much "STOCK" parts as possible, and the ECU would have to be left alone, then I would say that this would be your choice.

If anything I have said is way wrong, please feel free to correct.

Cheers All

EddyL.

From what I can tell, the CARB people don't care about drivetrain issues (although I am wondering how that would affect the kit - does it not fit somewhere? Please let me know...) as much as emissions issues. Of course, I don't know what their criteria is, either.

I may go the route of limiting the production years to 2000-2001/2002. Then, if I sell enough kits to justify the cost of re-certifying it for other years, I'll build a second kit for other cars.

would you then sell the CARB stickers? >http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

when you complete your carb legal kit would you make some sort of kit for my car with large rotors to enable me to be able to take of vertically... i would like to have a carb kit but i would also like to fly i think it is a toss up on which would happen first http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Uh... stickers... Sure, I'll sell them! For about $3k to $5k complete with a turbo kit. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

And rotors, um, yeah, why not? Only $99 more. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by RS25.com (edited June 02, 2001).]

So do you think this would include an intercooler? Would that be necessary/too much with only 5 psi of boost?

RS25.COM,

PM'd you on this

EddyL.

Arnie, yes intercooler is included. I am partial to offering either an A2A or A2W intercooler. If it's A2A, it'll be several hundred dollars more expensive - like $800 - but will use the 2002 WRX intercooler.

The less expensive A2W will use the Liberty factory intercooler, and will include plumbing and all parts needed to run the air to water heat exchangers.

Are you still buring the midnight oil on this one here?:D

If you ever get this done I know a silver 2000 RS that is in need of one.

But like others have already said - CARB approval may be difficult to get. NEver under estimate the hassle and hoops of red tape.

For 3-5K if you get me to around 250 Bhp I`d buy one for sure.

Uncle Git

so what is happening with this James? I know you are moving right now.... Drive safe! Keep us updated! Wait, you are moving to CO, so are you still continuing with this project?!?!?

Um actually at this point .. No. Sorry!

Basically I am in Colorado and I am planning on doing something else. I am going to try and shoehorn the H6 into an older Impreza and turbo it instead. :D

Wanna buy my current 2000 Imp?

If you call that a "handful" then I am amazed. If these guys can do it, why can't I?

Dude, you need a HUGE bank account to get carb sticker on a aftermarket turbo kit.

I Shiv were to decide to build a turbo kit, I doubt he would have the $$$ to cover the cost of the CARB cirtification. I even question if Cobb Tuning /APS have the combined resources to make this happen.

I have had a TEC-II CARB legal fuel injection kit on a old Jeep CJ, and from what I understand getting the CARB sticker almost put the TEC-II manufactur (Electromotive Inc) out of buisness.

I think it's a great idea, but finacially prohibitive. I think on large companies like HKS, or Greddy have the resources available to cover the huge legal costs involved.

Uh... even though I just said I am not going to do it (probably because I am not in California anymore) it's not THAT expensive. Less than $10k easy. I already got all the paperwork and everything, so if any of you had some extra cash laying around you could do it too.