I have here a really interesting dyno sheet for you

This is fresh from my tuning weekend in Ohio at Buschur Racing

The two cars - dynoed same day - same dyno - same style of tuning - same tuner - me

2007 STI - Stage II - stock air box - catted DP - header - cat back exhuast - custom Buschur Flash tuned 20.5 psi peak boost 93 octane

2006 Evo IX - Stage II - Buschur Intake - Buschur 02 Housing - Buschur Turbo back exhuast with high flow cat - custom Buschur Flash tuned 21 psi max boost - 93 octane


if you look at these dyno sheets - it is clear that the STI kicks the Evos butt on the dyno up to just about 7,000 rpms when they draw even

Now with the new 07 STI gears which are even longer than the Evo's gears now - its going to be a very good match at the track - at these street pump gas boost levels I give the upper hand to the STI

However, based upon a lot of experience - going with alcohol injection or race gas and high boost levels the Evo will make up that gap significantly while the STI is almost out of turbo

This comparision shows me that the STI has made up a lot of ground vs the Evo in the past few years the 07 STI is with out a doubt the best one ever

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/DynoFlash_Evo_8/07STIvIXEvo.jpg

Would make a good race at the track!
Nice #'s

unfortunate truth about the alky inj but.. definately good info...
the 07's vf43 & tranny.. :thumbsup:

perhaps subaru is lightening up a bit...
more go-fast parts '08 please! :)

I guess with the Evo X the process will start new again !

vf43?

Awesome info Al.

vf43?

Yeah, from my understanding a new turbo for '07. At least that's what I have heard and read.....:D

Yeah, from my understanding a new turbo for '07. At least that's what I have heard and read.....:D

Hmm, odd. I never herd anything of this nature but hey could be right. Id assume it would have no boost creep issues

Yeah, from my understanding a new turbo for '07. At least that's what I have heard and read.....:D

Most of the power comes from the ecu IMHO - the VF43 is mostly improved in the wastegate area - (at least from my examinations)

Most of the power comes from the ecu IMHO - the VF43 is mostly improved in the wastegate area - (at least from my examinations)

Bingo. Thinking the same thing.

Yeah, from my understanding a new turbo for '07. At least that's what I have heard and read.....:D

It's true. It's a VF-43. I pulled mine off when I slapped my Element Tuning GT-52 on. :)

I also agree with the gearing on the 07's. I absolutely destroy all other STI MYs. 2nd gear + 7k = 60 mph! :)

4th gear is just a joke. Sometimes I think it goes to infinity.

My MY05 STi with 245/45/17 and 7600 RPM limit, 2nd gear = 62 mph :)

That result conflicts which this dyno of a stage 2 06 sti and turboback+EM Evo 9

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/cbrd/nicknickol.jpg

The above makes me want an evo9.

That result conflicts which this dyno of a stage 2 06 sti and turboback+EM Evo 9

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/cbrd/nicknickol.jpg

The above makes me want an evo9.

If the ECU and turbo are really that different between '06 and '07 like some of the previous posters have said, comparing the '06 to the Evo 9 is pointless in a thread comparing the '07 and the Evo 9.

That result conflicts which this dyno of a stage 2 06 sti and turboback+EM Evo 9


Did you read the thread title? :confused:

'06 STi != '07 STi

Other anomalies:

The STi made less torque than I did (the '07 in Al's graph is mine) with an upgraded fuel pump and a catless TBE.

The Evo was running 3.5 pounds more boost.

Not a good apples to apples comparison.

:D

WOW! That is good news. Now I need to tune my 07.

My MY05 STi with 245/45/17 and 7600 RPM limit, 2nd gear = 62 mph :)

Can you finish the 1/4 mile in 4th gear though?

What's different in the 07 ECU? Please explain! It can't simply be the values in the tables since those are changed during the tune anyway!

Al, would you say the Subaru ECU is better than the Mitsu ECU? What are some of the differences. Maybe this is a question better posted in the EM forum but I figured I'd as here since you mentioned the ECU being the reasion for more power.

an evo at 21PSI is pointless, 23-24 is safe on 93-pump on an evo IX. 20.5PSI on a subie is pretty friggen high.

an evo at 21PSI is pointless, 23-24 is safe on 93-pump on an evo IX. 20.5PSI on a subie is pretty friggen high.

Wrong..

With the new turbo design 20.5 psi is ok. A typical 07 STG2 runs at 19 psi.

This is all very interesting to me. I didn't even know about the vf-43 and I read around on here every day. Probably just not the right forums though. Does this mean no more creep on a stage 2 sti?

an evo at 21PSI is pointless, 23-24 is safe on 93-pump on an evo IX. 20.5PSI on a subie is pretty friggen high.

the difference in torque and hp would be different if the evo was at its home boost range like said above, ive seen up to 25 psi peak on 93 octane with a semi aggressive tune (similar to an sti on 20.5)

they run what 20.8 stock on the 9?

the difference in torque and hp would be different if the evo was at its home boost range like said above, ive seen up to 25 psi peak on 93 octane with a semi aggressive tune (similar to an sti on 20.5)

they run what 20.8 stock on the 9?

uh pretty sure evos only run about 16psi bone stock.

uh pretty sure evos only run about 16psi bone stock.

They are right around 20 PSI stock actually.

They are right around 20 PSI stock actually.

Im sure with some boost taper however, just like an sti or wrx doesnt hold its peak boost till redline because of factory ECU tuning.

iirc the EVO is 20.5psi stock (at least I thought it was at some point)... but I may be wrong.

Im sure with some boost taper however, just like an sti or wrx doesnt hold its peak boost till redline because of factory ECU tuning.

Yes defenitely there is a boost taper, I was referring to peak. Sorry about that.

uh pretty sure evos only run about 16psi bone stock.

404 correcting me not found

these turbos don't hold boost until redline because they don't flow enough air, for either car

What's different in the 07 ECU? Please explain! It can't simply be the values in the tables since those are changed during the tune anyway!

Al, would you say the Subaru ECU is better than the Mitsu ECU? What are some of the differences. Maybe this is a question better posted in the EM forum but I figured I'd as here since you mentioned the ECU being the reasion for more power.

More resolution on the base timing and timing advance as well as fueling than previous ECUs. ~2X the resolution. :D

Can you finish the 1/4 mile in 4th gear though?


No but I can keep it in 2nd gear longer while driving around cones :devil:

2x the resolution!!?? WOE! How does that compare to a EVO ecu?

More resolution on the base timing and timing advance as well as fueling than previous ECUs. ~2X the resolution. :D

404 correcting me not found

:lol:

~v6

If the ECU and turbo are really that different between '06 and '07 like some of the previous posters have said, comparing the '06 to the Evo 9 is pointless in a thread comparing the '07 and the Evo 9.

Except both are mustang dynos and in my post the evo makes almost 340 whp. There are plenty of reports that evo 9 owners are making honest-to-god 340 whp on stock turbo and cams. The OP seems to imply that 07 stis can make as much power as an evo 9. I don't think so. They may make more than the 06's especially in the low-end, but I don't think the 07 sti can touch the evos top-end capability.

Except both are mustang dynos and in my post the evo makes almost 340 whp. There are plenty of reports that evo 9 owners are making honest-to-god 340 whp on stock turbo and cams. The OP seems to imply that 07 stis can make as much power as an evo 9. I don't think so. They may make more than the 06's especially in the low-end, but I don't think the 07 sti can touch the evos top-end capability.

+1

An Evo local to me made 320 whp and wtq with just an MBC, flash and Buschur exhaust with a cat. It is not hard to make an EVO get near 350 whp/ wtq (on stock turbo / pump gas) on a local dyno but it seems that Buschur's dyno read's really really low. Still, that IX dyno graph Al posted seems way off the mark (to my amateur eyes).

I still think that the EVO will pull hard on an STI up top because the 16G flows so much more. I am waiting for someone to prove me wrong though...

IMO Evo's blow out STI's on stock turbo. I mean what do you expect, Evo's have a huge stock turbo. My friend went 11.8 on stock turbo with alky on his evo 9.

yes David says a typical EVO 9 does 210/210 on his dyno. his 06 WRX did 191/226

OMGWTFBBQ!!! But you used to call it a slowbaru! :lol: ;)

Wow. Talk about some sweet numbers!! Way to go SOA! Now just give us a slightly bigger turbo! :devil:

IMO Evo's blow out STI's on stock turbo. I mean what do you expect, Evo's have a huge stock turbo. My friend went 11.8 on stock turbo with alky on his evo 9.

yes, my friend ran a 11.2@120mph on his stock turbo evo 8. I still have yet to see any STI reach the 11s on stock turbo.

+1

An Evo local to me made 320 whp and wtq with just an MBC, flash and Buschur exhaust with a cat. It is not hard to make an EVO get near 350 whp/ wtq (on stock turbo / pump gas) on a local dyno but it seems that Buschur's dyno read's really really low. Still, that IX dyno graph Al posted seems way off the mark (to my amateur eyes).

I still think that the EVO will pull hard on an STI up top because the 16G flows so much more. I am waiting for someone to prove me wrong though...

I agree with you that, I would walk away from my friends Evo9 1st/2nd and the a little bit of 3rd and then he would start pulling away bad from there.:furious:

Go Subbie! Now we are in buisnesse.

More resolution on the base timing and timing advance as well as fueling than previous ECUs. ~2X the resolution. :D

The basetiming and fueling map only increased from 15x18 to 19x18. Timing advance moved from 16x18 to 19x18. It is kinda nice for when you're tuning, but really doesn't mean more power. They all still only have 8 bits of precision.

Either ECU can produce the same fuel, timing, and boost values if tuned to do so. If the 07 STI is producing more power consistently I would not attribute it to the ECU.

We know the turbo is different. The head is different, for better or worse, since it has the air pump now. The AVCS maps go up to 40 on the '07 (whether or not it can actually run that much advance), so I wonder if the cams, AVCS, or heads are different in some other way.

A header is kinda uncommon for a stage 2 car.

So there are more rows and the same amount of columns? So in theory more RPM resolution and not load resolution?

The basetiming and fueling map only increased from 15x18 to 19x18. Timing advance moved from 16x18 to 19x18. It is kinda nice for when you're tuning, but really doesn't mean more power. They all still only have 8 bits of precision.

Either ECU can produce the same fuel, timing, and boost values if tuned to do so. If the 07 STI is producing more power consistently I would not attribute it to the ECU.

We know the turbo is different. The head is different, for better or worse, since it has the air pump now. The AVCS maps go up to 40 on the '07 (whether or not it can actually run that much advance), so I wonder if the cams, AVCS, or heads are different in some other way.

A header is kinda uncommon for a stage 2 car.

props to the 07 STI! with better gearing i m sure it will be more capable of trapping better times and trap speed this summer!!

The 07's are phenominal machines. They are a force to be reconned with. The 06 Evo posted on that graph had a "suspected lower intercooler pipe leak" that was fixed later after the car had dynoed. It probably robbed the car of a few whp and tq but it still would not have outshined that 07 STi. Buschurs said so himself. These two machines are evenly matched and that is all thats important. Once more 07's hit the track, we will see whats going on.

And a little food for thought and for those who arent familiar with the capabilities of the EVO 9, Dan Bajalis ran his 06 EVO 9 RS to an 11.42 at like 118+. Mods were manual boost controller, O2 housing, 3" Downpipe, 3" testpipe, 272 exhaust cam, walbro 255 fp, AMS lower intercooler pipe, AMS re-flash, and race fuel. Notice he has stock turbo, stock catback, stock tires stock slipping clutch. Thats less than $1500 folks. Impressive, no???? I think so.

The 07's are phenominal machines. They are a force to be reconned with. The 06 Evo posted on that graph had a "suspected lower intercooler pipe leak" that was fixed later after the car had dynoed. It probably robbed the car of a few whp and tq but it still would not have outshined that 07 STi. Buschurs said so himself. These two machines are evenly matched and that is all thats important. Once more 07's hit the track, we will see whats going on.

And a little food for thought and for those who arent familiar with the capabilities of the EVO 9, Dan Bajalis ran his 06 EVO 9 RS to an 11.42 at like 118+. Mods were manual boost controller, O2 housing, 3" Downpipe, 3" testpipe, 272 exhaust cam, walbro 255 fp, AMS lower intercooler pipe, AMS re-flash, and race fuel. Notice he has stock turbo, stock catback, stock tires stock slipping clutch. Thats less than $1500 folks. Impressive, no???? I think so.

That is an impressive time and trap. Not knowing the in and outs of EVO's what exactly is an "02 housing". And it seems cams are a common mod for EVO owners,...so I'm assuming cam replacment is easier in an EVO (obviously I4) but what all is required and is it a DIY job in the driveway?

It's true. It's a VF-43. I pulled mine off when I slapped my Element Tuning GT-52 on. :)

I also agree with the gearing on the 07's. I absolutely destroy all other STI MYs. 2nd gear + 7k = 60 mph! :)

4th gear is just a joke. Sometimes I think it goes to infinity.

My MY05 STi with 245/45/17 and 7600 RPM limit, 2nd gear = 62 mph :)

i use the same size tire and i get 73 out of 2nd, 103 - 3rd, and 140 from
4th ;) and thats an 04....

So why is Dyno Flash's EVO9 running basically stock boost levels? I 'tuned' an EVO9 to 26psi peak on 93 a couple of weekends ago. The reason I say 'tuned' is because the timing tables are already mapped up to 3 bar absolute within the Mitsu ECU from the factory. This makes the job of tuning an EVO that much easier. This is also why the Mitsu ECU works so well with an MBC. All you have to do is tune fuel if you want, even though stock fueling is pretty decent. Just turn up the boost and keep the knock sum count under 3.

So run that EVO9 to something that's NOT stock boost. Try 24psi at the MINIMUM and see what kind of results you get.

All in all thumbs down to this misleading thread. Perhaps the future readers of this thread will be able to dissect the BS from the truth.

Capt Crunch - thanks for that dyno chart. I agree. Both are mustang dynos so in one an EVO9 is making 280whp and 330whp in another. Yeah... I guess Dyno Flash must've forgotten how to tune EVOs because 50whp is a HUGE difference given the fact that they are the same dynos.

In general, retarded misinforming threads like this make me sick. Because 90% of the general public on here is too slow to figure things out on their own.

Cliff notes - Dyno Flash detuned an EVO9 to match the 07 STi's peak power levels.

So why is Dyno Flash's EVO9 running basically stock boost levels? I 'tuned' an EVO9 to 26psi peak on 93 a couple of weekends ago. The reason I say 'tuned' is because the timing tables are already mapped up to 3 bar absolute within the Mitsu ECU from the factory. This makes the job of tuning an EVO that much easier. This is also why the Mitsu ECU works so well with an MBC. All you have to do is tune fuel if you want, even though stock fueling is pretty decent. Just turn up the boost and keep the knock sum count under 3.

So run that EVO9 to something that's NOT stock boost. Try 24psi at the MINIMUM and see what kind of results you get.

All in all thumbs down to this misleading thread. Perhaps the future readers of this thread will be able to dissect the BS from the truth.

Capt Crunch - thanks for that dyno chart. I agree. Both are mustang dynos so in one an EVO9 is making 280whp and 330whp in another. Yeah... I guess Dyno Flash must've forgotten how to tune EVOs because 50whp is a HUGE difference given the fact that they are the same dynos.

In general, retarded misinforming threads like this make me sick. Because 90% of the general public on here is too slow to figure things out on their own.

Cliff notes - Dyno Flash detuned an EVO9 to match the 07 STi's peak power levels.

I dont know if he could run that much boost on a catted downpipe. Doesn't that cause detonation sometimes at high boost levels? Im not saynig your wrong, I agree that the evo makes its reall power at 24+psi.

OHH yeah, I can tune an evo to 31.43psi, on the stock turbo!


My E-tuning skills Pwn all.

The basetiming and fueling map only increased from 15x18 to 19x18. Timing advance moved from 16x18 to 19x18. It is kinda nice for when you're tuning, but really doesn't mean more power. They all still only have 8 bits of precision.

Either ECU can produce the same fuel, timing, and boost values if tuned to do so. If the 07 STI is producing more power consistently I would not attribute it to the ECU.


Yup. ;) It can cover more load ranges with better resolution though, plus there are 4 3D base timing tables and 4 DA tables.

15x18 = 270 cells
19x18 = 342 cells

Also, (I don't have the link right now) but the O2 sensor is diff on the MY06 STI (USA MY07). There was an article from Subaru stating that the ECU auto-tunes now. That is why bolt on parts respond very well without tuning on the 07 STI. I would say most of the gains are advances in the ECU.

It is a factor in the increased HP and TQ. The heads and the turbo help as well. Me want! :D

07 STI:

http://widmer.sytes.net/cars/07STI_timing.jpeg

06 STI:

http://widmer.sytes.net/cars/06STI_timing.jpeg

There are also 4, yes 4, 3D base timing maps and 4 3D Dynamic advance maps. I dunno what the ECU does with those (yet), but there is much more in there than the 06. ;)

That is an impressive time and trap. Not knowing the in and outs of EVO's what exactly is an "02 housing". And it seems cams are a common mod for EVO owners,...so I'm assuming cam replacment is easier in an EVO (obviously I4) but what all is required and is it a DIY job in the driveway?

o2 housing is an exhaust component that connects the hotside of the turbo to the downpipe. The first O2 sensor resides within that componenet. It is chambered where exhaust gases are momentarilly seperated from the wastegate discharge. Believe it or not, the cheapy ebay units work the best for around 60-90 bucks. They are dyno proven by Buschur in real controlled tests to produce more hp than any other O2 housing. And cams in the Evos run 300 for the install. They are nowhere as involving as in the Subies. At the time of his run, he only had an exhaust cam in.

Back on topic now. It would have been nice to see the graphs if that Evo was put back on the dyno after they fixed the licp issue.

I'm just looking forward to a track comparo between the two....Screw dyno charts.

I love it -

'tuned' an EVO9 to 26psi peak on 93 a couple of weekends ago. And did you hold 26psi? To redline? Did it taper? Was this on stock components?

After owning 2 Evo's (MR/GSR), mind you not the IX's, tuning to that boost level even on a BR Stage 2/3 car or WORKS TR-340 package is a recipe for disaster on 93 octane and is getting beyond the efficiency of the factory turbo.

21psi is safe to hold through the upgraded lines and retaining the factory ECU safety on an 8. With the design of the turbo on the IX and Mivec I would suppose you could go to 22 maybe 23 with Mivec on the IX, but not 26! Who cares if you can run that peak at WOT for a few seconds for 5,000 or even 10,000 miles and then you start having problems?

It's worthless...

^^^ well said

I love it -

'tuned' an EVO9 to 26psi peak on 93 a couple of weekends ago. And did you hold 26psi? To redline? Did it taper? Was this on stock components?

After owning 2 Evo's (MR/GSR), mind you not the IX's, tuning to that boost level even on a BR Stage 2/3 car or WORKS TR-340 package is a recipe for disaster on 93 octane and is getting beyond the efficiency of the factory turbo.

21psi is safe to hold through the upgraded lines and retaining the factory ECU safety on an 8. With the design of the turbo on the IX and Mivec I would suppose you could go to 22 maybe 23 with Mivec on the IX, but not 26! Who cares if you can run that peak at WOT for a few seconds for 5,000 or even 10,000 miles and then you start having problems?

It's worthless...

26psi peak in the low-mid range and tapering to 24-23.

Then again I'm also the guy that has been running his vf39 to 26psi on a 2.0L on 93 for the past 6 months. I've also hit 2.0 bar just to see what would happen. The car still didn't detonate. Timing was too low so i backed it down to 26psi. I also did a track day in Florida at those boost levels and made a 2000 mile round trip journey from Pittsburgh to Gainesville. Hate all you want. But my car is a living rebuttal to all the nay sayers on here. :banana:

Anyway, this thread is about how Dyno Flash is running almost stock boost levels on an EVO9. So let's discuss that instead.

26 psi is nothing for a IX stock turbo. Remember this is a TD05HR-16G6 10.5 cm^2 with a much larger compressor cover than the older VIII 16g's, the comp. wheel is rated around 40-42 lb/min. They are capable of running high boost. My cousin's IX is tuned for 26 psi tappering down to 22 psi by 8k rpm.

So why is Dyno Flash's EVO9 running basically stock boost levels? I 'tuned' an EVO9 to 26psi peak on 93 a couple of weekends ago. The reason I say 'tuned' is because the timing tables are already mapped up to 3 bar absolute within the Mitsu ECU from the factory. This makes the job of tuning an EVO that much easier. This is also why the Mitsu ECU works so well with an MBC. All you have to do is tune fuel if you want, even though stock fueling is pretty decent. Just turn up the boost and keep the knock sum count under 3.

So run that EVO9 to something that's NOT stock boost. Try 24psi at the MINIMUM and see what kind of results you get.

All in all thumbs down to this misleading thread. Perhaps the future readers of this thread will be able to dissect the BS from the truth.

Capt Crunch - thanks for that dyno chart. I agree. Both are mustang dynos so in one an EVO9 is making 280whp and 330whp in another. Yeah... I guess Dyno Flash must've forgotten how to tune EVOs because 50whp is a HUGE difference given the fact that they are the same dynos.

In general, retarded misinforming threads like this make me sick. Because 90% of the general public on here is too slow to figure things out on their own.

Cliff notes - Dyno Flash detuned an EVO9 to match the 07 STi's peak power levels.
I totally agree, this thread is very misleading. Anyone that has done research on the Evo IX knows that they will put out much more power with upped boost.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/DynoFlash_Evo_8/07STIvIXEvo.jpg
That result conflicts which this dyno of a turboback+EM Evo 9

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/cbrd/nicknickol.jpg

The above makes me want an evo9.

Capt Crunch is right on point. An Evo IX with turboback, mbc (and maybe lower intercoolerpipe and drop in filter) and tune will make killer torque and hp on pump gas. Check out norcalevo.com in the power mods forum, lots of 300+wtq stock turbo evos on 91 pump gas (on DynoDynamics and Mustang Dynos).

Not knocking the STi, I love them...actually...I cant decide on an 07 or 08 STi or Evo IX for my next car :)

Does this mean my cousins STi can out run Evo's? Hahaha Once he gets done with everything, I'm sure he'll easily be able too.

26 psi is nothing for a IX stock turbo. Remember this is a TD05HR-16G6 10.5 cm^2 with a much larger compressor cover than the older VIII 16g's, the comp. wheel is rated around 40-42 lb/min. They are capable of running high boost. My cousin's IX is tuned for 26 psi tappering down to 22 psi by 8k rpm.

Not on 93 octane, sorry. 26psi on c16/race gas but not on 93...even Al won't tune for that and I consider him to be more agressive than other tuners like WORKS. The 10.5 hotside is the same on the 2005 and 2006 IX. The turbo is still the same 16g with a larger compressor housing...that's it.

26psi is too much for a stock turbo on the 8 or 9 on PUMP gas. Get your facts straight and research on Evolutionm.net or we may have to bring in Al or Buschur to set the record straight.

Does this mean my cousins STi can out run Evo's? Hahaha Once he gets done with everything, I'm sure he'll easily be able too.

Not on the VF-43 he won't.

Not on 93 octane, sorry. 26psi on c16/race gas but not on 93...even Al won't tune for that and I consider him to be more agressive than other tuners like WORKS. The 10.5 hotside is the same on the 2005 and 2006 IX. The turbo is still the same 16g with a larger compressor housing...that's it.

26psi is too much for a stock turbo on the 8 or 9 on PUMP gas. Get your facts straight and research on Evolutionm.net or we may have to bring in Al or Buschur to set the record straight.

I never mentioned anything about the fuel he used. His 26 psi tune is on pump 93 + Meth injection. The stock turbo can handle that much boost......it's not a tiny ass 39 or 43 and even then some boost 20 psi. Also the IX 16g isn't the same as previous evo turbos.

the thread on evomn is awsome. reminds me of here.....

I never mentioned anything about the fuel he used. His 26 psi tune is on pump 93 + Meth injection. The stock turbo can handle that much boost......it's not a tiny ass 39 or 43 and even then some boost 20 psi. Also the IX 16g isn't the same as previous evo turbos.



Exactly!! We're not talking about a meth-injected tune comparison!! I bet a VF-43 could handle 25-26 psi on an agressive 93 + 100% meth tune. Let's compare apples to apples here guys.

It's amazing how big e-ego's get whenever a EVO vs. STi comparison is done! I love it! :lol:

the thread on evomn is awsome. reminds me of here.....

yep... it made for a smooth transition when I joined there a few years back.

yep... it made for a smooth transition when I joined there a few years back.

Those are some ghey evo owners over there! I've been reading that thread.

yes, my friend ran a 11.2@120mph on his stock turbo evo 8. I still have yet to see any STI reach the 11s on stock turbo.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1195284#post1195284

Exactly!! We're not talking about a meth-injected tune comparison!! I bet a VF-43 could handle 25-26 psi on an agressive 93 + 100% meth tune. Let's compare apples to apples here guys.

It's amazing how big e-ego's get whenever a EVO vs. STi comparison is done! I love it! :lol:

No "e-ego" here bro....
You said the stock turbo won't push that much boost and I said other wise thats all.

^^^^ exactly, it won't on pump....

IMO Evo's blow out STI's on stock turbo. I mean what do you expect, Evo's have a huge stock turbo. My friend went 11.8 on stock turbo with alky on his evo 9.

yes, my friend ran a 11.2@120mph on his stock turbo evo 8. I still have yet to see any STI reach the 11s on stock turbo.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1195284#post1195284


here is a NASIOC thread also:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1226848

When comparing engine power don't talk about ET. The trap speed is a much better indicator or horsepower.

That EVO8 trapped 120mph to the STis 113mph. Guess which car I'd rather drive.

^^^ he actually trapped a little over 115 if you read the thread...Also keep in mind that there's an extra shift in the 1/4 mile for the STi.

Why isnt the original post updated that the evo had a boost leak and/or running stock boost????????????

that evo 8 people are talking about is so stripped its ridiculous, like probably 3-400 lbs of weight savings

^^^ hahaha, yea, gotta love the info that people leave out!

^^^^ exactly, it won't on pump....

Sorry but thats not correct. You can run that much boost on pump with a IX.
I have seen a bunch run anywere between 24-26 psi on pump.
Ask CBRD what the IX can handle.....

that evo 8 people are talking about is so stripped its ridiculous, like probably 3-400 lbs of weight savings

his car wieghs in at 2960 so its not that ridicolous, he actually just ran 11.3 @119 on 93 pump gas which is pretty ridic, I dont even think an sti with that wieght will trap 119+ on 93 pump gas.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=259215


Also keep in mind when i said i have yet to see an sti in 11s, that was b4 this guy even came on here, might i add he still has not added a video or even timeslip.

When comparing engine power don't talk about ET. The trap speed is a much better indicator or horsepower.

That EVO8 trapped 120mph to the STis 113mph. Guess which car I'd rather drive.

yea i totally agree with that, This just proves that sti falls on its face up top and cant hit those high trap speeds.

his car wieghs in at 2960

With him in it.. Its still fast though.. But you really have to factor in weight when comparing that car to anything. That car in full weight would trap 114-116.. which is pretty normal for an EVO with bolt ons. Once again I am not taking anything from Mikes car.. but you have to make fair comparisons.

With him in it.. Its still fast though.. But you really have to factor in weight when comparing that car to anything. That car in full weight would trap 114-116.. which is pretty normal for an EVO with bolt ons. Once again I am not taking anything from Mikes car.. but you have to make fair comparisons.

What ever - talk is cheap - lets see your time slips first - pontificate later

Not on 93 octane, sorry. 26psi on c16/race gas but not on 93...even Al won't tune for that and I consider him to be more agressive than other tuners like WORKS. The 10.5 hotside is the same on the 2005 and 2006 IX. The turbo is still the same 16g with a larger compressor housing...that's it.

26psi is too much for a stock turbo on the 8 or 9 on PUMP gas. Get your facts straight and research on Evolutionm.net or we may have to bring in Al or Buschur to set the record straight.

Apprently there are many dyno queen Evo owners who enjoy a highly inflated dyno sheet with 25 psi of boost on pump gas

Some tuners jack up the boost on the dyno and then "adjust" it for the customer for normal use

As far as i am concerend, this style of dyno heroics is just plain silly

No one with a rational thought would drive around with 25 psi of boost on pump gas with a Evo IX as the knocking would be severe

In making my conparision I was attempting to compare two cars with similar boost and similar mods - e.g. CAT

I would never go above 21 psi with a cat in place on pump gas with either car

his car wieghs in at 2960 so its not that ridicolous, he actually just ran 11.3 @119 on 93 pump gas which is pretty ridic, I dont even think an sti with that wieght will trap 119+ on 93 pump gas.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=259215


Also keep in mind when i said i have yet to see an sti in 11s, that was b4 this guy even came on here, might i add he still has not added a video or even timeslip.
And he runs 30 psi of boost on pump gas - which while fast - its not somthing that I (we at my shop) suggest for most customers

Never the less I am proud of his accomplishment as being the fastest pump car stock turbo evo 8 with my E Flash! tune on board

What ever - talk is cheap - lets see your time slips first - pontificate later

Whatever.. LOL... . are you sucking your teeth and rolling your eyes too? :rolleyes: :p Were is the cheap talk? Cant you read? I clearly stated that I am in no way taking anything from the car.. 11.2@120 is fast no matter what it weighs. You just cant actually compare a 3000lb car to a 3400lb car...

Whatever.. LOL... . are you sucking your teeth and rolling your eyes too? :rolleyes: :p Were is the cheap talk? Cant you read? I clearly stated that I am in no way taking anything from the car.. 11.2@120 is fast no matter what it weighs. You just cant actually compare a 3000lb car to a 3400lb car...

Listen man - its called racing

When you prep a car for racing you do certain things to modify it for a racing function

No need to interject your comments about the man's accompishments - he is the fastest of his kind - end of story

If you want a form of sanctioned racing which sets a uniform weight requirement and other rules which create a more level playing field then come out to some of the races in the NHRA or NOPI which have weight limits etc.

This man drove his car to the track and back home and set the time (that makes it a Street CAR) - thus I suggest you refrain from trying to detract from his accomplishments and pontificate about this or that. Maybe if he drove with 91 octane or added three pals into the car the trap speed would lower also - but he didn't so its all speculation and conjecture.

I have not seen either you or your boss George run anything but your mouths to date on any race track. Talk is cheap - come out to the track and then you talk.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/e9vse8turbocomparo0hq.jpg

There is sizeable difference between an EVO 9 turbo(left) and EVO 8 turbo(right). Further, the tuning potential of Mitsu's MIVEC, which is exclusive to the EVO 9, is still in it's infancy.

Nevertheless, 2007 will prove to be a fun year for both parties.

Whatever.. LOL... . are you sucking your teeth and rolling your eyes too? :rolleyes: :p Were is the cheap talk? Cant you read? I clearly stated that I am in no way taking anything from the car.. 11.2@120 is fast no matter what it weighs. You just cant actually compare a 3000lb car to a 3400lb car...

yea i agree with al on this, plus mike is 1 hell of a driver, which is usually what times like that proves more than anything. He consistently can hit 1.4-1.5 60foot which is not easy by any means.

Also im pretty sure their where other evos out that that where trapping 120+mph on full interior with stock turbo but lower et times. Not sure tho.

No one with a rational thought would drive around with 25 psi of boost on pump gas with a Evo IX as the knocking would be severe


We do it with no issue (on ours only), ours runs 25psi, and won the 3 hour enduro down at Virgina Raceway three weekends ago (Against 25 other cars).. Pump gas no Meth 354whp 372 wtq tuned with OpenECU.

I dunno, but running WOT for 3 hours at 25psi would show any sign of detonation and motor carnage pretty quickly. This car does have ARP head studs, with stock cams, EL Header, and 3" Buschur TBE.

http://xxtuning.com/race/race7.jpg

http://xxtuning.com/race/race4.jpg

[QUOTE=XX_Chris;17453595]We do it with no issue (on ours only), ours runs 25psi, and won the 3 hour enduro down at Virgina Raceway three weekends ago (Against 25 other cars).. Pump gas no Meth 354whp 372 wtq tuned with OpenECU.


I think al was just trying to say that most tunners will not tune for 25psi on pump gas on an evo ix. Do you guys over at xx tunning tune all the evo 9s with 25psi on pump gas? im so you dont because it prob is not the best idea.

I think al was just trying to say that most tunners will not tune for 25psi on pump gas on an evo ix. Do you guys over at xx tunning tune all the evo 9s with 25psi on pump gas? im so you dont because it prob is not the best idea.

No we do not, and nor will I, but I was stating the fact that it can be done.

I am actually very happy with the way our EVO runs, but it is our Evo so we can go as aggressive as we like.

All Evo's that we tune, in stock internal form, get tuned for about 21-22psi on pump gas.. But I do like the new MIVEC motors, and we did play around A LOT with it on our car...

No we do not, and nor will I, but I was stating the fact that it can be done.

I am actually very happy with the way our EVO runs, but it is our Evo so we can go as aggressive as we like.

All Evo's that we tune, in stock internal form, get tuned for about 21-22psi on pump gas.. But I do like the new MIVEC motors, and we did play around A LOT with it on our car...


My point is that rational and professional tuners would tune the Evo at 21 - 22 psi peak - (especially with a cat in place)

and those same prudent tuners would tune the Subaru at 19 - 20 psi peak - perhaps 21 if they were more reckless

It is not not a resonable comparison to compare the IX Evo against the STI at 24 - 26 psi - just my opinion

In any event - I think a more interesting comparision between the two cars would be conducted on two cars with test pipes as that is the way most of my customers roll

As more 07 sti's get tuned and go to the track we will have more data

My point is that rational and professional tuners would tune the Evo at 21 - 22 psi peak - (especially with a cat in place)

and those same prudent tuners would tune the Subaru at 19 - 20 psi peak - perhaps 21 if they were more reckless


:rolleyes:

Apparently, nothing has changed.

<- back to his hole.

I have not seen either you or your boss George run anything but your mouths to date on any race track. Talk is cheap - come out to the track and then you talk.

You post all these big words but you cant seem to read... I did not in any of my post take any credit away from MIKEs car.. Its fast, plain and simple.. Mike since I have known him has driven the balls off the car... 1.5 60fts ect.. He is sick. All I stated was that its light.. Would it be fair to tell your customers that the said cars runs 11.2@120mph on pumpgas with bolts ons and your "eflash"? Wouldn't they be a little pissed when they get the same mods Mike has and only run 11.8-7@114-116mph? Then you drop on them that the car is 3000lbs vs their 3400lb car?

Also I was at the track last week with 2 customers.. One of which was .1 slower than your car with his vf39 and top mount. Another which went 12.2@115-6mph on 18psi and pumpgas with a slipping clutch...

WTF does George have to do with this? You enjoy drama dont you? You should go back to being a lawyer.. You can have plenty of it there.

I must add.. As per our conversation on the phone a while back.. I told you I would run your EVO.. I didn't back down did I ? I believe Jimmy and Ivey were both on the phone with us.. I told you for your own satisfaction I would run you.. This way you can disassociate me from some one that runs there mouth. Win or loose.. Didn't matter to me.. As it would only prove something to you.. . and then maybe you can shut your mouth.

Since this is a subaru forum.. Keep all your "my evo runs 9.7@145+ mph" to your self. I will run your subaru any day with my subaru.. And since this is "Racing" you wont mind that my car weighs 2600lbs and makes the same power your car does.. Bro....

You post all these big words but you cant seem to read... I did not in any of my post take any credit away from MIKEs car.. Its fast, plain and simple.. Mike since I have known him has driven the balls off the car... 1.5 60fts ect.. He is sick. All I stated was that its light.. Would it be fair to tell your customers that the said cars runs 11.2@120mph on pumpgas with bolts ons and your "eflash"? Wouldn't they be a little pissed when they get the same mods Mike has and only run 11.8-7@114-116mph? Then you drop on them that the car is 3000lbs vs their 3400lb car?

Also I was at the track last week with 2 customers.. One of which was .1 slower than your car with his vf39 and top mount. Another which went 12.2@115-6mph on 18psi and pumpgas with a slipping clutch...

WTF does George have to do with this? You enjoy drama dont you? You should go back to being a lawyer.. You can have plenty of it there.

I must add.. As per our conversation on the phone a while back.. I told you I would run your EVO.. I didn't back down did I ? I believe Jimmy and Ivey were both on the phone with us.. I told you for your own satisfaction I would run you.. This way you can disassociate me from some one that runs there mouth. Win or loose.. Didn't matter to me.. As it would only prove something to you.. . and then maybe you can shut your mouth.

Since this is a subaru forum.. Keep all your "my evo runs 9.7@145+ mph" to your self. I will run your subaru any day with my subaru.. And since this is "Racing" you wont mind that my car weighs 2600lbs and makes the same power your car does.. Bro....
Cuz - more talk. I will be by your shop tomorrow or the next day to accept your challenge

Sorry but thats not correct. You can run that much boost on pump with a IX.
I have seen a bunch run anywere between 24-26 psi on pump.
Ask CBRD what the IX can handle.....

;)

we typically tune at 24.5-25 psi then taper them back a little. the ix is potent. we had one do 343/340 on our dyno with ic pipes, fuel pump, intake and turboback!

our 06 sti is doing 308/328 on stock vf39 at 19psi knock free.

they are two different cars.... what's most i nteresting is the shape of their curves.... they are normally a reversal of each other... we had one ix do 329whp/308 wtq and the subie did complete opposite.

--------

anyway.....

to each their own once again! i get sick of the "what does it translate to in trap speed" mentality though... but thats because im a roadracer/complete package kind of guy!

love em all, hate none!

cb

My point is that rational and professional tuners would tune the Evo at 21 - 22 psi peak - (especially with a cat in place)

and those same prudent tuners would tune the Subaru at 19 - 20 psi peak - perhaps 21 if they were more reckless

It is not not a resonable comparison to compare the IX Evo against the STI at 24 - 26 psi - just my opinion

In any event - I think a more interesting comparision between the two cars would be conducted on two cars with test pipes as that is the way most of my customers roll

As more 07 sti's get tuned and go to the track we will have more data


al,

i think the point should be more...

tune, is dependant on customer's wants and needs, tuner's recommendations, and fuel/variables taken into consideration.

you know as well as i do, it's never fun to have to be "overly" conservative... but even when ur told "my car ALWAYs gets 93," you still have to be.

---------

i hate internet discussions... they always get twisted

cb

Cuz - more talk. I will be by your shop tomorrow or the next day to accept your challenge

Bro ... No talk.. See you at Subway...

loser treats us all to Subway

Stupid question.

How much do the 07 STI's push out PSI wise stock?


What the max you could run safely on it for a daily driver?

grumpy: right about 15 midrange, 14.5 at 6000, 12.5 at 6800. This is at sea level, you should get slightly more at altitude. They bumped it up by about 1/2 psi from 4000-4400 compared to older models

Zumble, no, it has extra load columns, same RPM columns. 15 to 19, or 16 to 19. I don't consider this a huge deal.

it can cover more load ranges with better resolution though, plus there are 4 3D base timing tables and 4 DA tables.
There are more tables in the 07, but just like the 04-06, most of them are the same, or copies of one another. The ECU is still written to control automatic transmission cars, even though the STI doesn't come with an auto tranny, so right there about half the tables are not used. Still don't think it will necessarily make more power to have a bit more resolution. I suppose larger tables are a nicety.

Though I find it interesting how different some parts of the stock tune look (having been virtually identical from 04 to 06), I don't think the ECU is an advancement. It's still the same CPU since 2005, the core subroutines for timing and such are the same, calculate in the same tables... But they definitely retuned it seemingly from scratch. AVCS is very different. They compensate for intake temps through different maps. The fuel maps are WAY richer, though I'm interested if really runs as rich as the fuel maps look, etc. Most of this is moot once it has been tuned.

We do it with no issue (on ours only), ours runs 25psi, and won the 3 hour enduro down at Virgina Raceway three weekends ago (Against 25 other cars).. Pump gas no Meth 354whp 372 wtq tuned with OpenECU.

I dunno, but running WOT for 3 hours at 25psi would show any sign of detonation and motor carnage pretty quickly. This car does have ARP head studs, with stock cams, EL Header, and 3" Buschur TBE.



My point is that rational and professional tuners would tune the Evo at 21 - 22 psi peak - (especially with a cat in place)



Dyno Flash, you disgust me. Please stay off this site in the future or learn to think logically. Here you have proof of an EVO9 being perfectly happy running 25psi on straight 93 yet you still say that 25psi is unsafe? For God's sake, this car took part in a 3 hour enduro race at that boost level and the motor didn't blow up. That is a sure frickin' sign that the EVO9 can handle that much boost on a stock turbo on 93? Why would you NOT tune ALL EVO9s to that boost level? Why would you 'tune' an EVO9 to 1 psi over stock boost? That is retarded.

What makes XX_Tuning's EVO9 so frickin' special that it's able to run 25psi for 3 hours straight on a road course? Do you think they got a 'Wednesday' car? :rolleyes:

Can you show me datalogs of an EVO9 running 25psi and having huge knock sum counts? If not, then please shut the **** up.
Also, where in Ohio are you located. Don't be surprised if a few people show up at your door step for an interview with a camera in hand. It would suck to look retarded on film and have all of youtube and google video realize how retarded you are.

Also realize that you can fool the average retarded NASIOC member, but there are those that won't be fooled so easily. Then again your entire business plan is centered around getting dumb****s to get 'tuned' by you. Sadly, you probably will succeed because 95% of members on here complete idiots.

Dyno Flash, you disgust me. Please stay off this site in the future or learn to think logically. Here you have proof of an EVO9 being perfectly happy running 25psi on straight 93 yet you still say that 25psi is unsafe? For God's sake, this car took part in a 3 hour enduro race at that boost level and the motor didn't blow up. That is a sure frickin' sign that the EVO9 can handle that much boost on a stock turbo on 93? Why would you NOT tune ALL EVO9s to that boost level? Why would you 'tune' an EVO9 to 1 psi over stock boost? That is retarded.

What makes XX_Tuning's EVO9 so frickin' special that it's able to run 25psi for 3 hours straight on a road course? Do you think they got a 'Wednesday' car? :rolleyes:

Can you show me datalogs of an EVO9 running 25psi and having huge knock sum counts? If not, then please shut the **** up.
Also, where in Ohio are you located. Don't be surprised if a few people show up at your door step for an interview with a camera in hand. It would suck to look retarded on film and have all of youtube and google video realize how retarded you are.

Also realize that you can fool the average retarded NASIOC member, but there are those that won't be fooled so easily. Then again your entire business plan is centered around getting dumb****s to get 'tuned' by you. Sadly, you probably will succeed because 95% of members on here complete idiots.

hgfhfdhgfdhgfdhgfd

loser treats us all to Subway

Subway sucks, Blimpie FTW!

umm....yeah.....IBTL on this one.

All evo vs. sti threads will get locked, one way or another...

^^^ Sad but true!!

e-testosterone FTW!!

It's a shame us guys can never have a civil argument/discussion without someone going overboard!

At least it makes my workday go by faster!

Dude in post 104 is buggin out. Somebody whanna tell me how many Evos have blown up because AL tuned it to aggressively? I cant think of 1. If someone mistakenly pumps in 88 or 89 octane on a 25 psi tune thats optimized for max hp on 93 oct, what happens? I think that its clear many folks dont wanna let the pros do there jobs without bashing. The dude has flashed more Evos in the county than any other tuner with no recordable engine failures and people are bashing him for tuning the way he wants to? Wow. Just wow?

i am shocked that drama has erupted in a thread started by al.

wait... actually, no, i'm not.

i am shocked that drama has erupted in a thread started by al.

wait... actually, no, i'm not.

Lol.....

This test really shows nothing other then the STI got some good numbers. The IX's as have been said can run 23-24psi all day and I have seen several tuned for 25-26psi on 93oct. Raising the boost on one car and leaving the other stock makes no sense to me.

http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/e9vse8turbocomparo0hq.jpg

There is sizeable difference between an EVO 9 turbo(left) and EVO 8 turbo(right). Further, the tuning potential of Mitsu's MIVEC, which is exclusive to the EVO 9, is still in it's infancy.

Nevertheless, 2007 will prove to be a fun year for both parties.

WOW never seen both turbos side by side before. I thought it was only slightly larger.

Wow. This thread makes my e-penis feel small. Maybe I should jump in and talk smack about something. :rolleyes:

Junior: The drama just finds you. You make such an unbiased observational statement and still get attacked.

Run 10s with the RS and then sell it to me.;)

grumpy: right about 15 midrange, 14.5 at 6000, 12.5 at 6800. This is at sea level, you should get slightly more at altitude. They bumped it up by about 1/2 psi from 4000-4400 compared to older models

Zumble, no, it has extra load columns, same RPM columns. 15 to 19, or 16 to 19. I don't consider this a huge deal.


There are more tables in the 07, but just like the 04-06, most of them are the same, or copies of one another. The ECU is still written to control automatic transmission cars, even though the STI doesn't come with an auto tranny, so right there about half the tables are not used. Still don't think it will necessarily make more power to have a bit more resolution. I suppose larger tables are a nicety.

Though I find it interesting how different some parts of the stock tune look (having been virtually identical from 04 to 06), I don't think the ECU is an advancement. It's still the same CPU since 2005, the core subroutines for timing and such are the same, calculate in the same tables... But they definitely retuned it seemingly from scratch. AVCS is very different. They compensate for intake temps through different maps. The fuel maps are WAY richer, though I'm interested if really runs as rich as the fuel maps look, etc. Most of this is moot once it has been tuned.

The extra resolution especially in the higher load ranges will make for a much smoother power curve. A bit easier to tune which is nice. Yeah those 4 different timing maps have diff values. I wonder WTH they are doing with them. Isn't the ROM 2 megs as well as opposed to 1 meg? Thats much much more code and it seems like it does some good. :D Maybe it s a precursor to whats gonna be in the 08 WRX. That would make me :D :D :D :banana: :banana: :banana:

yea....we all knew the evos sucked all along :P

The extra resolution especially in the higher load ranges will make for a much smoother power curve.

i can see by this statement that you've never tuned a car yourself.

loser treats us all to Subway

deal:D

The extra resolution especially in the higher load ranges will make for a much smoother power curve. A bit easier to tune which is nice. Yeah those 4 different timing maps have diff values. I wonder WTH they are doing with them. Isn't the ROM 2 megs as well as opposed to 1 meg? Thats much much more code and it seems like it does some good. :D Maybe it s a precursor to whats gonna be in the 08 WRX. That would make me :D :D :D :banana: :banana: :banana:The end user / tuner can set the load points however they wish (up to max MAF resolustion) hence you can create more resolution in the high load area by re-scaling the loads

Overall map size does open up the total resolution

Dude in post 104 is buggin out. Somebody whanna tell me how many Evos have blown up because AL tuned it to aggressively? I cant think of 1. If someone mistakenly pumps in 88 or 89 octane on a 25 psi tune thats optimized for max hp on 93 oct, what happens? I think that its clear many folks dont wanna let the pros do there jobs without bashing. The dude has flashed more Evos in the county than any other tuner with no recordable engine failures and people are bashing him for tuning the way he wants to? Wow. Just wow?

Honestly - I thin it must be virtually impossible to blow up an evo with a stock turbo based upon some of the maps I have seen

Just as a good doctor does not conduct risky medicine testing on you without your permission - a good tuner does not tune your car to thye ragged edge on pump gas unless you insist - (which few customers do)

We do have a customer who drives at 30 psi on pump gas on a daily basis - 56 K miles - with no problems - but he is not a rational guy (kind of like me)

BTW - a curious aside - we had a customer who went to a full service gas attendant who pumped in 87 octane by mistake and his piston split in half the first pull he made (stock piston) - lucky for him he saved the reciept and the gas company made good

Dyno Flash, you disgust me. Please stay off this site in the future or learn to think logically. Here you have proof of an EVO9 being perfectly happy running 25psi on straight 93 yet you still say that 25psi is unsafe? For God's sake, this car took part in a 3 hour enduro race at that boost level and the motor didn't blow up. That is a sure frickin' sign that the EVO9 can handle that much boost on a stock turbo on 93? Why would you NOT tune ALL EVO9s to that boost level? Why would you 'tune' an EVO9 to 1 psi over stock boost? That is retarded.

What makes XX_Tuning's EVO9 so frickin' special that it's able to run 25psi for 3 hours straight on a road course? Do you think they got a 'Wednesday' car? :rolleyes:

Can you show me datalogs of an EVO9 running 25psi and having huge knock sum counts? If not, then please shut the **** up.
Also, where in Ohio are you located. Don't be surprised if a few people show up at your door step for an interview with a camera in hand. It would suck to look retarded on film and have all of youtube and google video realize how retarded you are.

Also realize that you can fool the average retarded NASIOC member, but there are those that won't be fooled so easily. Then again your entire business plan is centered around getting dumb****s to get 'tuned' by you. Sadly, you probably will succeed because 95% of members on here complete idiots.


Just FYI - here is a customer of mione who is the fastest Evo 8 on pump gas - he runs 30 psi regularly and went 11.2 @ 120

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=259215

Here is his video of driving to work - (no interior or exhuast)

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=258864

I drive my evo at 50 psi of boost - is that a fair comparision also ?

Just becuase its possible to do it on a agreesive customer's car does not mean that its prudent or wise to do it on a normal customer's daily driver which is intended to last for 100,000 miles or more

This seems like a very reasonable and fair position to me - but apperantly it is illogical to you

Some people like to pay to get beaten and walked around like dogs on a lease ( S & M ) just because that is not my style does not mean its illogical for them

Cheers

PS - guys - I have found over the years that often a controversial opinion is the one which is most interesting and at times can be the one which can spark intense anger amung those who disagree with it.

Civil deabte is welcome - profane insults and threats are just a sign of an inferior mind which can not express a reasoned counterpoint.

50psi of boost on a stock turbo EVO? :lol: Remember we are comparing STOCK turboed cars here. Thanks for playing.

But is this how you justify running 1psi over stock boost levels on an EVO9? :) Cuz 23psi is 'aggressive'... :lol:

Do you have ANY empirical evidence of an EVO9 NOT lasting at 24psi on the stock turbo? Thank you come again!

I don't care what all you guys are saying... I just don't like the title... I could comprehand as if 07 STI has an advantage over IX EVO. I know it is subjective but 07 STI does not have any advantage over IX EVO in terms of performance gains, if both has similar bolt-ons with tuning.

I've had Subaru STI for 3 years and only had IX EVO MR for a year. I can tell you I personally perfer to drive EVO over STI..... Top end power on EVO is what attracts me the most! This is something which you will not feel if you have STI with stock turbo...
On the other hand, it is easier to launch and drive STI due to its torque advantage...

Civil deabte is welcome - profane insults and threats are just a sign of an inferior mind which can not express a reasoned counterpoint.

It cannot be said better than this.

MRF582: I'm not a tuner, but I'm not an idiot either, and I resent your implication that I am, so if we ever meet, I'll stomp your ass...nicely :).

Just FYI - here is a customer of mione who is the fastest Evo 8 on pump gas - he runs 30 psi regularly and went 11.2 @ 120

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=259215

Here is his video of driving to work - (no interior or exhuast)

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=258864

I drive my evo at 50 psi of boost - is that a fair comparision also ?

Just becuase it's possible to do it on a agreesive customer's car does not mean that it's prudent or wise to do it on a normal customer's daily driver which is intended to last for 100,000 miles or more

This seems like a very reasonable and fair position to me - but apperantly it is illogical to you

Some people like to pay to get beaten and walked around like dogs on a lease ( S & M ) just because that is not my style does not mean it's illogical for them

Cheers

PS - guys - I have found over the years that often a controversial opinion is the one which is most interesting and at times can be the one which can spark intense anger amung those who disagree with it.

Civil deabte is welcome - profane insults and threats are just a sign of an inferior mind which can not express a reasoned counterpoint.

I think that the problem isn't so much the amount of boost that the Evo is running, it's the title of the thread.

Anyone that is an active member of this site knows that, at the mere mention of Evo vs. Sti, there is a HUGE debate. By putting that as your title, you asked for this heated debate to be stirred up and you are only fueling the fire.

I also find it extremely amusing that you try and write so eloquently and professional to make it seem like you are of a higher level of intelligence. Half of the words you used didn't make sense in the context in which you typed them.

By the way, I bolded all of your spelling and grammar mistakes. Next time you try and pose like you are intelligent, at least hit the spell check. :rolleyes:

E-thugs FTL

Also realize that you can fool the average retarded NASIOC member, but there are those that won't be fooled so easily. Then again your entire business plan is centered around getting dumb****s to get 'tuned' by you. Sadly, you probably will succeed because 95% of members on here complete idiots.

It cannot be said better than this.

MRF582: I'm not a tuner, but I'm not an idiot either, and I resent your implication that I am, so if we ever meet, I'll stomp your ass...nicely :).

I'm next :devil:

Honestly - I thin it must be virtually impossible to blow up an evo with a stock turbo based upon some of the maps I have seen

Just as a good doctor does not conduct risky medicine testing on you without your permission - a good tuner does not tune your car to thye ragged edge on pump gas unless you insist - (which few customers do)

We do have a customer who drives at 30 psi on pump gas on a daily basis - 56 K miles - with no problems - but he is not a rational guy (kind of like me)

BTW - a curious aside - we had a customer who went to a full service gas attendant who pumped in 87 octane by mistake and his piston split in half the first pull he made (stock piston) - lucky for him he saved the reciept and the gas company made good
I know, I've been following.


50psi of boost on a stock turbo EVO? :lol: Remember we are comparing STOCK turboed cars here. Thanks for playing.

But is this how you justify running 1psi over stock boost levels on an EVO9? :) Cuz 23psi is 'aggressive'... :lol:

Do you have ANY empirical evidence of an EVO9 NOT lasting at 24psi on the stock turbo? Thank you come again!
If he achieves 335 whp on a DJ with 21psi/no knock and 340 whp on the same car 24 psi/ and 1 or 2 knock counts, is the extra 3 psi worth it. Whats my point? The dude's tuned thousands of Evos since 03. Most of the simple cars are consistantly tuned at 21psi and some have as much as 350whp (DJ) and 360 wtq. If he is getting numbers consistant with other tuners around the country with less boost, whats the problem?

I don't care what all you guys are saying... I just don't like the title... I could comprehand as if 07 STI has an advantage over IX EVO. I know it is subjective but 07 STI does not have any advantage over IX EVO in terms of performance gains, if both has similar bolt-ons with tuning.

I've had Subaru STI for 3 years and only had IX EVO MR for a year. I can tell you I personally perfer to drive EVO over STI..... Top end power on EVO is what attracts me the most! This is something which you will not feel if you have STI with stock turbo...
On the other hand, it is easier to launch and drive STI due to its torque advantage...
The 06's an up feel better than the 04 and 05s. And now it is clear that the 07's have an edge over those previous years. I drove an 07 thoroughly and it is a great car. It has a hell of a torque advantage over the IX but yet the car isnt more fun.

I think that the problem isn't so much the amount of boost that the Evo is running, it's the title of the thread.

Anyone that is an active member of this site knows that, at the mere mention of Evo vs. Sti, there is a HUGE debate. By putting that as your title, you asked for this heated debate to be stirred up and you are only fueling the fire.

I also find it extremely amusing that you try and write so eloquently and professional to make it seem like you are of a higher level of intelligence. Half of the words you used didn't make sense in the context in which you typed them.

By the way, I bolded all of your spelling and grammar mistakes. Next time you try and pose like you are intelligent, at least hit the spell check. :rolleyes:

E-thugs FTL
This is the internet boss. Dont base intelligence off of spelling and grammar. As long as the majority can follow, its cool. People make money working and have fun partying. There isnt much time left to run spelling and grammar checks on a post.:rolleyes:

this was my friends EVO. nice job on both tunes. she really loves her car now.

This is the internet boss. Dont base intelligence off of spelling and grammar. As long as the majority can follow, its cool. People make money working and have fun partying. There isnt much time left to run spelling and grammar checks on a post.:rolleyes:

Reading comprehension > You

I said that I thought it was funny that HE was trying to sound smarter than everyone but couldn't spell or speak for crap.

Now you are attacking me without even understanding what I was saying.

I think that the problem isn't so much the amount of boost that the Evo is running, it's the title of the thread.

Anyone that is an active member of this site knows that, at the mere mention of Evo vs. Sti, there is a HUGE debate. By putting that as your title, you asked for this heated debate to be stirred up and you are only fueling the fire.

I also find it extremely amusing that you try and write so eloquently and professional to make it seem like you are of a higher level of intelligence. Half of the words you used didn't make sense in the context in which you typed them.

By the way, I bolded all of your spelling and grammar mistakes. Next time you try and pose like you are intelligent, at least hit the spell check. :rolleyes:

E-thugs FTL

Would you like a job as my proof reader / spell checker ?

Seriously - most of the stuff I type on these forums is done with one finger as I am watching TV and trying to answer tech questions on IM

I wonder if you have a doctorate degree and a published thesis - (as I do)? i also wrote many articles fro Turbo Magazine - not as scholarly but more relevant to the topic at hand.

Al

Al, you are forgetting one thing. EVERYONE on the internet is a genius and knows more than the guy that posted before him. :D

^^ true...

Also, it is often difficult to understand the context of a person's argument when typing as opposed to speaking. I find it funny when someone explodes over a comment that might have been meant another way.

Anyways, I like the comparo, regardless of which car "is better", it shows that the 07's are making very good numbers as opposed to previous MY STi's.

Today's Battle

Here we go again - same dyno - both cars on pump gas

'07 STI - Full Exhuast only (stock upipe) - AP 2 Pro Tuned

'06 Evo IX - intake, mbc, fp, dp, hfc, catback, 22psi, 93 octane cossie cams, head studs, custom dynoflash

This time the Evo is clearly the winner - but he had more mods

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/DynoFlash_Evo_8/stivsevord2.jpg


The evo customer added intercooler pipes and a adjustable wastgate actuator and made even more power later - did not compare that sheet


It would seem that the STI has the down low advantage but the Evo kills it in the top end

Today's Battle

Here we go again - same dyno - both cars on pump gas

'07 STI - Full Exhuast only (stock upipe) - AP 2 Pro Tuned

'06 Evo IX - intake, mbc, fp, dp, hfc, catback, 22psi, 93 octane cossie cams, head studs, custom dynoflash

This time the Evo is clearly the winner - but he had more mods

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/DynoFlash_Evo_8/stivsevord2.jpg


The evo customer added intercooler pipes and a adjustable wastgate actuator and made even more power later - did not compare that sheet


It would seem that the STI has the down low advantage but the Evo kills it in the top end


seriously im not going to bitch and moan but these comparisons are exactly what lead to these debates. the difference in mods is leaves way too much to the imagination. i think just to shut everyone up these comparisons should be done relative to the amount of mods on each car.

for example: stock vs. stock, stock w/ tune(stage 1) vs. stock w/ tune, stage 2 (full TBE) vs. full TBE, and so forth. if you really wanted to make it a fair fight. and also this following link is for all the douchebags on EVOm who are going off about how us NASIOC members believe everything we hear about the 11.7 sec stock Turbo 06 STI(VF39) http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1227797

hears the damn time slip AND videoclip eat that!!:D

It would seem that the STI has the down low advantage

displacement

but the Evo kills it in the top end

turbo

Thanks for the new dyno chart, Al. It reminded me again exactly why I bought my STI, though I'm a fan of both cars. I drove the evo ix and subie back-to-back, after having gone to Mitsu first and having been absolutely convinced that I wanted the evo. But it was a hot day in May, and so switched on the AC, and the 2.0 liter in the Mitsu instantly blanched. The simple truth is that ~3% of my time driving the car is spent at engine speeds above 5600 RPM. I'll take the extra sack down low...especially on a 90 degree day.

seriously im not going to bitch and moan but these comparisons are exactly what lead to these debates. the difference in mods is leaves way too much to the imagination. i think just to shut everyone up these comparisons should be done relative to the amount of mods on each car.

for example: stock vs. stock, stock w/ tune(stage 1) vs. stock w/ tune, stage 2 (full TBE) vs. full TBE, and so forth. if you really wanted to make it a fair fight.

Agreed.

Today's Battle

Here we go again - same dyno - both cars on pump gas

'07 STI - Full Exhuast only (stock upipe) - AP 2 Pro Tuned

'06 Evo IX - intake, mbc, fp, dp, hfc, catback, 22psi, 93 octane cossie cams, head studs, custom dynoflash

This time the Evo is clearly the winner - but he had more mods

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/DynoFlash_Evo_8/stivsevord2.jpg


The evo customer added intercooler pipes and a adjustable wastgate actuator and made even more power later - did not compare that sheet


It would seem that the STI has the down low advantage but the Evo kills it in the top end

Both cars kick ass here....


.....Evo handles better :devil:

Would you like a job as my proof reader / spell checker ?

Seriously - most of the stuff I type on these forums is done with one finger as I am watching TV and trying to answer tech questions on IM

I wonder if you have a doctorate degree and a published thesis - (as I do)? i also wrote many articles fro Turbo Magazine - not as scholarly but more relevant to the topic at hand.

Al

No, I'm gainfully employeed, thanks. So rather than address my car related comments, you would rather try and show me up intellectually...over the internet.

Whatever, keep fueling the debate.

Al, you are forgetting one thing. EVERYONE on the internet is a genius and knows more than the guy that posted before him. :D

And everyone else is a nutswinger. :rolleyes:

seriously im not going to bitch and moan but these comparisons are exactly what lead to these debates. the difference in mods is leaves way too much to the imagination. i think just to shut everyone up these comparisons should be done relative to the amount of mods on each car.

Agreed

Reading comprehension > You

I said that I thought it was funny that HE was trying to sound smarter than everyone but couldn't spell or speak for crap.

Now you are attacking me without even understanding what I was saying.
It seems that you have a complex with insulting people. You didnt seem to understand what I was saying. I know what AL did before tuning and didnt bother to bring it up. I also know that you did not say what you just posted. You should have just typed that instead. Please see your quote below. Im not attacking you nor will I attack you. Im simply saying dont assume anything about everyone on here because they simply dont take the time to spell every word right. Just so we can move on though, You win!!!


I think that the problem isn't so much the amount of boost that the Evo is running, it's the title of the thread.

Anyone that is an active member of this site knows that, at the mere mention of Evo vs. Sti, there is a HUGE debate. By putting that as your title, you asked for this heated debate to be stirred up and you are only fueling the fire.

I also find it extremely amusing that you try and write so eloquently and professional to make it seem like you are of a higher level of intelligence. Half of the words you used didn't make sense in the context in which you typed them.
By the way, I bolded all of your spelling and grammar mistakes. Next time you try and pose like you are intelligent, at least hit the spell check. :rolleyes:

E-thugs FTL
Persoanl attack on character or simply pointing out how he thinks hes smarted than everyone else??? You still win by the way. Notice I effectively got my point accross without namecalling, degrading, or insulting.

No, I'm gainfully employeed, thanks. So rather than address my car related comments, you would rather try and show me up intellectually...over the internet.

Whatever, keep fueling the debate.



And everyone else is a nutswinger. :rolleyes:



More insults. How is any of this on-topic?


And lastly, the IX posted in the second dyno sheet comparison had another boost leak. Boost leaks and Evos go hand in hand.

seriously im not going to bitch and moan but these comparisons are exactly what lead to these debates. the difference in mods is leaves way too much to the imagination. i think just to shut everyone up these comparisons should be done relative to the amount of mods on each car.

for example: stock vs. stock, stock w/ tune(stage 1) vs. stock w/ tune, stage 2 (full TBE) vs. full TBE, and so forth. if you really wanted to make it a fair fight. and also this following link is for all the douchebags on EVOm who are going off about how us NASIOC members believe everything we hear about the 11.7 sec stock Turbo 06 STI(VF39) http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1227797

hears the damn time slip AND videoclip eat that!!:D


just to clarify i really appreciate that someone even attempts to make thses comparisons it really does give you an idea of things but i still say uneven comparisons lead to firey debate:rolleyes:

good job Al! keep up the good work!

Notec: I made a comment to Dyno Flash. Then you attacked me in his defense.

In his comments there is an intended feeling of superiority he is giving off and it bothered me.

This debate is useless and comparing these cars is futile and annoying and this thread has skewed the results.

I won't argue anymore.

Al,
Why are you responding to deblas66??, you have nothing to prove to this punk. Enjoy following what your doing in the subaru community. Keep up the good work!!

It's hard to compare coz this two cars are different. The EVO has a bigger turbo. It would not match unless the STI is using the EVO turbo or vice versa. Not to mention the STI has the 2.5l.

ugh, all this stock turbo talk

just slap a big turbo on there and have some real fun. Stock turbos are boring.

ugh, all this stock turbo talk

just slap a big turbo on there and have some real fun. Stock turbos are boring.

not on an evo 9 they aren't.

ugh, all this stock turbo talk

just slap a big turbo on there and have some real fun. Stock turbos are boring.

You never drove a stock turbo IX with bolt ons before. 400whp with a 8k redline isn't boring at all.

400 whp on a IX with bolt ons is not happening. I had a IX and ran 100% meth and 30lbs of boost to get those numbers. By the way GSC S1 cams made me lose a considerable amount of power after they were put in and the car was retuned but maybe different when running 21-22lbs of boost on pump. I didnt care since Greg sent them to me for free to test for him.

400 whp on a IX with bolt ons is not happening. I had a IX and ran 100% meth and 30lbs of boost to get those numbers. By the way GSC S1 cams made me lose a considerable amount of power after they were put in and the car was retuned but maybe different when running 21-22lbs of boost on pump. I didnt care since Greg sent them to me for free to test for him.

I have seen 360whp/350wtq with cams and other bolt ons on pump 91 ~22psi
Same mods with c16 392whp/378wtq @ 24 psi.
400whp on the stock turbo is possible and has been done, just cause you didn't doesn't mean it can't or hasn't been done before.

I did over 400 with the stock turbo for your information. Been there done that almost a year ago.

You never drove a stock turbo IX with bolt ons before. 400whp with a 8k redline isn't boring at all.

zzzzzzzzz

I did over 400 with the stock turbo for your information. Been there done that almost a year ago.

So how come 400whp isn't " happening" on the stock turbo?

I didnt say it wasnt happening. It just isnt happening with bolt ons and pump gas.

I didnt say it wasnt happening. It just isnt happening with bolt ons and pump gas.

Do you consider E85 pump gas?

I didnt say it wasnt happening. It just isnt happening with bolt ons and pump gas.

True not on pump...

You never drove a stock turbo IX with bolt ons before. 400whp with a 8k redline isn't boring at all.

Yeah it's boring, because if you push your Evo IX to 400WHP using the stock turbo... your powerband drops significantly after 6,500 rpm. And taking it pass that would only be making extra noise. Just put a 400WHP+ stock Evo IX chart to see what I mean. 8K yeah right.... boring.;)

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showpost.php?p=4126271&postcount=1
~400hp IX dyno for reference.

Yeah it's boring, because if you push your Evo IX to 400WHP using the stock turbo... your powerband drops significantly after 6,500 rpm. And taking it pass that would only be making extra noise. Just put a 400WHP+ stock Evo IX chart to see what I mean. 8K yeah right.... boring.;)

i don think being able to run low 11s and tapping 115+mph on stock turbo is something that is boring. I wish my car could do that on stock turbo.

why compare dyno charts of a 2.5L to a 2.0L. it's like doing the same mods to a C6 and a Z06 and saying look the Z06 is king. retarded

Al,
Why are you responding to deblas66??, you have nothing to prove to this punk. Enjoy following what your doing in the subaru community. Keep up the good work!!

Nutswinger

i don think being able to run low 11s and tapping 115+mph on stock turbo is something that is boring. I wish my car could do that on stock turbo.

Could you tell me how many Evo IX run low 11's with their stock turbo?

Here is http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2D938F00-850C-4B3A-AE46-FE4C75747AED.htm my Evo IX being the first one in the 11's. This was on pump gas also.

Here is http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2D938F00-850C-4B3A-AE46-FE4C75747AED.htm my Evo IX being the first one in the 11's. This was on pump gas also.

Yes my friend ran 11.52@119 on VP C-16 in his full interior EVO IX and another friend ran 11.53@118 on a different EVO IX. Both of them have over 400WHP on C16 (405WHP the 11.52 and 406 WHP the 11.53).

But I want to see all those Evo IX's running 11.0-11.3 (low 11's) and reving to 8K with the stock turbo (400WHP map). ;)

Ya idont think that will happen unless the car is gutted. Reving to 8k is just retarded unless you have a turbo that can flow enough air at that rpm.The power just drops off when you rev it out that much. I ran faster times and mph shifting a 7k with 30lbs and meth.

Ding, ding Thanks for letting them know. ;)

And for those people that haven't seen the Evo IX 16G besides the Evo VIII 16G here a picture.

http://www.carrito.net/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=3967&stc=1&d=1174805896

Evo IX is on the left. ;)

That twin scroll in an STi would rock!

i don think being able to run low 11s and tapping 115+mph on stock turbo is something that is boring. I wish my car could do that on stock turbo.

Thats what I was thinking.....but I guess only subaru gets all the respect. Last time I checked running 11's in any car was fun as hell.

Ding, ding Thanks for letting them know. ;)

And for those people that haven't seen the Evo IX 16G besides the Evo VIII 16G here a picture.

http://www.carrito.net/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=3967&stc=1&d=1174805896

Evo IX is on the left. ;)

That twin scroll in an STi would rock!

I would rather have a 10.5cm^2 housing for a 20g or green on a STi. That would be an interesting combination for the 2.5l motor. I'd buy another STi if I saw a housing that big for a stock location turbo.:devil:

That would be asking to much. ;) Not everyone is a drag racer.

When comparing engine power don't talk about ET. The trap speed is a much better indicator or horsepower.

That EVO8 trapped 120mph to the STis 113mph. Guess which car I'd rather drive.

The pink one?

Dude, I don't care if an EVO can trap 133 in the 1/4 on two cans of Busch light, and a bottle of octane boost.

It's STILL a Mitsubishi Mirage.

Read that closely: Mitsubishi Mirage.

Gimme a break.

I can strap a rocket engine to a turd, and have one really fast turd.

Or I can drive a real car.

I'd take an 06 WRX (TR, even!) with an 18g over an MR or IX.

Of course, it would need a few suspension and brake mods, but I can pull them off the Saabaru.

Mitsu = gay, mmmkay?


SOTC

Wrong..

With the new turbo design 20.5 psi is ok. A typical 07 STG2 runs at 19 psi.

yup

my stock motor ran 25 psi on 91, and now 30 psi on 91+ meth. so far so good,it's been over half year now .

Mitsu = gay, mmmkay?

are you in kindergarten?

I'd take an 06 WRX (TR, even!) with an 18g over an MR or IX.

And all you would have is an ugly car with a lame motor (by comparison), a turbo that is placed in the next time-zone, weak tranny, open front diff, terrible understeer, and a slightly nice interior.

Fanboy.

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmm!

(in my best chappell voice)

Mitsu = gay, mmmkay?



Fanboy for sure...:lol:

At least I find comfort that are these types on both sides of the fence.

Ooooooohhhh, almost done with breakin. Goin stage 1 right away. Weeeeee! :banana: :banana: :banana:

The pink one?

Dude, I don't care if an EVO can trap 133 in the 1/4 on two cans of Busch light, and a bottle of octane boost.

It's STILL a Mitsubishi Mirage.

Read that closely: Mitsubishi Mirage.

Gimme a break.

I can strap a rocket engine to a turd, and have one really fast turd.

Or I can drive a real car.

I'd take an 06 WRX (TR, even!) with an 18g over an MR or IX.

Of course, it would need a few suspension and brake mods, but I can pull them off the Saabaru.

Mitsu = gay, mmmkay?


SOTC

hahahahaha !! I couldn't have said it better myself. Evo's are ugly as shhit...unoriginal pieces of massproduced crap. I would rather hook up a daiwooooooo then drive a lancer.

And all you would have is an ugly car with a lame motor (by comparison), a turbo that is placed in the next time-zone, weak tranny, open front diff, terrible understeer, and a slightly nice interior.

Fanboy.

wow Capt Crunch...that pretty much summed it up :lol:

hahahahaha !! I couldn't have said it better myself. Evo's are ugly as shhit...unoriginal pieces of massproduced crap. I would rather hook up a daiwooooooo then drive a lancer.

First of all these comments dont even belong in this thread

I had a bugeye, my brother has an 06 WRX...did my research and look to the left now. Owned the car for 2 weeks so far and am in love. It was a much harder decision to make than people think ..But I would love for you to explain how an EVO is mass produced when its the only model of its body structure, where an STI has shared the same body as the RS, I, WRX, STI etc?

^ you people need to go find an Evo board to boast on....

I don't care how "awesome" the ****subishi is.... its still a DSM

this is an IMPREZA owers club. I live breath and dream SUBARU.
I am not a half breed flip flopping "fad" talking "cool thing of the moment", tell my friends about how I switched to the "other" car because I got bored with my subaru person.


Mitsubishi is the enemy, plain and simple. If you want to get one....fine. But go talk about how cool it is somewhere else...

:huh: .........
so.......................
how bout them 08 imprezas? love em? hate em? :D

Mitsubishi is the enemy, plain and simple. If you want to get one....fine. But go talk about how cool it is somewhere else...

What a small world you live in ..you might want to ask Al why he posted this SAME topic on the EVO boards then?

and why all the enemy talk? I think both cars are great and would not mind driving either one, and I have an STI myself. They're both just great cars! I'd love to own both one day.

Why is it that AL seems to piss people off wherever he goes? I remember on Socalevo how much crap the guy incited there. Some people are just genuine trolls.

and why all the enemy talk? I think both cars are great and would not mind driving either one, and I have an STI myself. They're both just great cars! I'd love to own both one day.

I agree but Susie Steampot AKA IllNastyImpreza seems to have his panties all in a bunch over this topic. Let's try to act a little more mature Susie ;)

^ hey thats fine... some of us are dedicated... others are not.

I myself find Pride in owning a Subaru....not just another "cool" car....

if I wanted another "cool" car I could go pick up an Audi....

Subaru FTW :)

Yeah, I totally bought my subaru because it screamed 'not another cool car'.
Probably the same reason as everyone else!

^ hey thats fine... some of us are dedicated... others are not.

I myself find Pride in owning a Subaru....not just another "cool" car....

if I wanted another "cool" car I could go pick up an Audi....

Subaru FTW :)

Yeah, but it was time for me to spend my hard earned cash. I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to regret my purchase, not "I bought another Subaru to keep the Nasioc gods happy"

these guys are crazy, the only other kind of car i feel a kindred spirit with are the subarus, WRXs and Evos are the only kind of car similar to each other and i am crazy interested in both of them. It wasn't an easy decision to buy my car but the only other car i would have owned was an STi, nothing else.

I guess some of us just love cars and others just love names.

It's true. It's a VF-43. I pulled mine off when I slapped my Element Tuning GT-52 on. :)

I also agree with the gearing on the 07's. I absolutely destroy all other STI MYs. 2nd gear + 7k = 60 mph! :)

4th gear is just a joke. Sometimes I think it goes to infinity.

your right my 07 sti will do 60 mph in 2nd gear & 86 miles per hour third and like you said 4 th gear is joke , i can go forever, but also 5 th gear is monstreous & i will allow myself to say, 6 gear , driving back from atlanta ,ga to grenville ,sc on the interstate i was in 6 gear blowing anything i come up on. i love my 07 sti .

these guys are crazy, the only other kind of car i feel a kindred spirit with are the subarus, WRXs and Evos are the only kind of car similar to each other and i am crazy interested in both of them. It wasn't an easy decision to buy my car but the only other car i would have owned was an STi, nothing else.

It's funny how people still think the evo is the enemy, I feel we are all awd turbo brothers. Some people actually respect both cars while others are closed minded. Let the haters hate......I love both cars, two of the best cars I ever owned.

It's funny how people still think the evo is the enemy, I feel we are all awd turbo brothers. Some people actually respect both cars while others are closed minded. Let the haters hate......I love both cars, two of the best cars I ever owned.

yea thats how i feel, +1

It's funny how people still think the evo is the enemy, I feel we are all awd turbo brothers. Some people actually respect both cars while others a