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NYCshopper
03-20-2007, 06:21 PM
Federal budget (Canada) hammers gas-guzzlers -Via NEW Tax "Up to $4,000"

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/science/070319/g031908A.html

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/science/070319/g031908A.jpg


OTTAWA (CP) - Gas guzzlers will be dinged with a new tax of up to $4,000, fuel-efficient cars will get a rebate worth up to $2,000 and old wrecks will be offered a short-cut to the junkyard, under Monday's federal budget.

The new tax treatment for cars is among $4.5-billion worth of environment-related measures in Monday's budget, but critics say there's no overall plan to deal with climate change.

Some measures have already been announced, such as the $1.5 billion for the ecoTrust fund to help provinces pursue their green objectives. It will support a variety of projects ranging from the east-west energy grid between Ontario and Manitoba to the replacement of incandescent bulbs in Nunavut.

A $1.5-billion commitment for biofuels such as ethanol and biodiesel will be popular with farmers but environmentalists are less enthusiastic. They say biofuels like corn-based ethanol bring no net reduction in greenhouse gases once the energy used in farming has been taken into account.

The budget provides $250 million to conserve ecologically important lands and implement the Species at Risk Act, a move sure to be applauded by conservation groups. It is widely acknowledged that the legislation has so far failed to protect critical habitat for endangered species.

There's more than $400 million for a national water strategy, which provides cleanup money for the Great Lakes, Lake Simcoe and Lake Winnipeg as well as support for coastal cities to stop dumping raw sewage into the ocean.

Aaron Freeman of Environmental Defence praised the water strategy but said the funding is small, especially considering that $324 million will go for six new Coast Guard vessels, which he argued should not be considered an environmental expenditure.

A much-criticized tax break for oil sands projects, the Accelerated Capital Cost Allowance, will be phased out. The break will be left in place for two years, so projects already in the ground or soon to be announced won't be affected.

The budget does not mention the Kyoto Protocol, and environmentalists say it doesn't provide the "massive scale-up" in action to combat climate change recommended by former environment commissioner Johanne Gelinas in her last report.

"The government is basically ignoring the climate crisis," said John Bennett of the Climate Action Network.

Stephen Guilbeault of Greenpeace said the budget basically revives Liberal programs that were cut last year. "We're no better off than we were in 2004 and we've lost two precious years. There's no upscaling of anything."

The boldest initiative is probably the system of car rebates and taxes, which unabashedly uses the tax system to influence consumer behaviour, something that environmentalists have long advocated.

Although most provinces have rebate programs for fuel-efficient cars, only Ontario has a tax on gas guzzlers. The federal Liberals never dared to implement such a system although it was carefully considered. It will likely meet fierce disapproval from the Ontario-based auto industry.

The price tag for a Hummer or a Jeep Grand Cherokee will go up by $4,000, while vehicles like the GMC Yukon, the Volkswagen Sequoia and Ford Durango could see a green levy of $2,000 per vehicle.

Vehicles eligible for a $2,000 rebate include the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic Hybrid and the Ford Escape HEV 4x4. There would be $1,000 discounts for the Toyota Corolla, Mini Cooper M6, Jeep Patriot and Chevrolet Impala.

Finance Department officials say the rebates and levies will basically cancel each other out, leaving the government with the same amount of revenue as before. But they acknowledge there are no studies to prove that the tax changes will actually influence buying patterns.

The program to scrap high-polluting older vehicles will be built on efforts of non-government organizations in a number of provinces. Federal officials say details are still being worked out, but car-owners will get some type of incentive for scrapping junkers.

Overall the budget is weak in addressing climate change, said Freeman of Environmental Defence. But that can be accomplished through regulatory measures that don't require more spending, he added.

The government is expected soon to announce regulations requiring heavy industry to reduce its greenhouse emissions.

tom@kartboy
03-20-2007, 06:29 PM
i wish they would do that here! tax the h2 driver talking on the cellphone drinking their starbucks in the fastlane doing 55 :mad:

Hazdaz
03-20-2007, 06:52 PM
My Hummer-sized reply:
Good!

wrxtotoro
03-20-2007, 06:54 PM
wow... likes car in Canada is not expensive enough...
I just hope they won't classify any car with <30MPG gas guzzler in a few years. A WRX cost CAD$>40k up north right now... plus 4000 would be ~44000... (US$~36k) :(

importdriver
03-20-2007, 09:37 PM
Thats DAMN right!!! Tax those mofos.

Hmm... I can get $2000 rebate from the Ontario Gov't for a hybrid, and $2000 from the Federal Gov't. $4000 total! A hybrid is looking good right now...

I would highly doubt the WRX would be under the list... if so, i am still gonna import one from the states. :)

Rapid_Roo
03-20-2007, 10:30 PM
i wish they would do that here! tax the h2 driver talking on the cellphone drinking their starbucks in the fastlane doing 55 :mad:

+11tybillion!!! :furious:

Chromer
03-20-2007, 11:25 PM
This is a good thing. If the US had the the brassies to do this, the light vehicle fleet average mileage wouldn't be decreasing.

Put it in big bold print right on the window sticker, and no exempting light/medium trucks, no 8500lb+ GVRW stupidity, and no E85 exemptions -- GMC/Chevy Truck division, I'm looking at you on that one. For every MPG < the CAFE standard you pay extra, right up front, and for every MPG > the CAFE standard you get a rebate.

And CAFE goes up yearly...

Detroit and the UAW will never let any of that see the light of day, unfortunately. Maybe California plus the northeast six will lead the way on it, instead...

Hazdaz
03-21-2007, 12:27 AM
This is a good thing. If the US had the the brassies to do this, the light vehicle fleet average mileage wouldn't be decreasing.

Put it in big bold print right on the window sticker, and no exempting light/medium trucks, no 8500lb+ GVRW stupidity, and no E85 exemptions -- GMC/Chevy Truck division, I'm looking at you on that one. For every MPG < the CAFE standard you pay extra, right up front, and for every MPG > the CAFE standard you get a rebate.

And CAFE goes up yearly...

Detroit and the UAW will never let any of that see the light of day, unfortunately. Maybe California plus the northeast six will lead the way on it, instead...
Totally agree with you on this one, but if they did ever try this in the US, there would always be those idiots that (wrongly) claim that the "invisible hand of the market" will lead people to buy economic vehicles and all that other hooey that they like to use just so they themselves don't have to cut their addiction to wastefulness.

Sometimes the government should step up and push people into making the right choice if they themselves are too stooopid to do it on their own. They can still buy a Hummer - just be prepared to pay dearly for it.

drees
03-21-2007, 04:26 AM
Don't we already have a gas-guzzler tax? All hybrids also have a federal rebate, too (until a manufacturer sells 60k of them in a year, anyway).

Spenk
03-21-2007, 07:37 AM
Progressive gasoline tax FTW.

Blitzkrieg
03-21-2007, 08:03 AM
This is the greatest idea ever..... I cant wait till it moves into other private sectors.

We tax people for smoking .... because we dont like them
Now we tax people for choosing a car. Its their wallet paying for the gas. So instead of the person making the choice. The government gets in and tries to make the choice easier on you.

Now we need to tax other things

I figure fast food will be next i say ten dollars if its over 100 calories.
movies i dont like R movies all the time. I think we need more PG movies so 10 dollar tax there. Oh and i think video games are getting to violent. We need a death tax. How about a tax of 10 dollars on just violent video games. I wonder were else the government can get more money. I mean they are only having so much trouble making money as is. To bad they cant freaking balance the budget they have NOW. What a load of crap.

BlitZ

KC
03-21-2007, 10:40 AM
Don't we already have a gas-guzzler tax? All hybrids also have a federal rebate, too (until a manufacturer sells 60k of them in a year, anyway).

Yeah, it's called 'gas tax'. (Every state has their own tax on top of the federal taxes we pay)
300 miles = $50 per fillup for a truck
300 miles = $20-$25 for a 30mpg car with a 13 gal tank (like my Saturn).

More economical cars save more money in gas, those that use more gas.. well, pay way more at the pump.

There's your tax right there. Many would actually claim double taxation if the US did this... if they're going to tax more for the type of vehicle, then they're going to have to drop fuel taxes.

Again, for those that don't get it: the more fuel you consume, the more taxes you already pay.

--kC

grzydj
03-21-2007, 11:06 AM
The gas guzzler tax will never take place in the US, at least not on trucks and SUV's, because despite how sales of trucks and SUV's may be softening, they are still the primary means of income for the big 2 or 3 or whatever you want to call the former.

It (Gas guzzler tax) is applicable to cars, but not trucks, which makes no sense whatsoever. If you can afford a 50k H2, you can afford to pay a 4k tax premium on top of that.

GooseMan
03-21-2007, 11:20 AM
sweet! hopefully there will be less stupid Hummers driving around up here!

bakadayo
03-21-2007, 12:13 PM
I would rather they increased the rebate on green cars instead of excising a tax on big cars. And when I mean green, there must be a really fine set of standards that it meets. From emissions to mileage, to type of fuel etc.

So instead of 2K rebate on green cars and 4K tax on big cars, make it 6K rebate on green cars and 0K tax on big cars. I think the 6K rebate # will get more people to buy the green cars vs choosing sthg other than a big car, but which is not necessarily "green".

importdriver
03-21-2007, 04:14 PM
I would rather they increased the rebate on green cars instead of excising a tax on big cars. And when I mean green, there must be a really fine set of standards that it meets. From emissions to mileage, to type of fuel etc.

So instead of 2K rebate on green cars and 4K tax on big cars, make it 6K rebate on green cars and 0K tax on big cars. I think the 6K rebate # will get more people to buy the green cars vs choosing sthg other than a big car, but which is not necessarily "green".

And who is gonna pay for this 6k rebate?

Jtree
03-21-2007, 04:20 PM
gas guzzler tax in the US is based on price of car, is is not? should be based on MPG rating.

Hazdaz
03-21-2007, 06:59 PM
I don't care if it is "double taxation" or "triple taxation" - if the general public has no common sense and complete disregard for other motorists and the nation's oil supply then damn straight you should be raped for your over-indulgence.

BUT, better than simply picking a MPG figure, I think it might be better off setting a weight limit, above which vehicles are charged more and more. These behemoths not only use too much gas, but because of their weight, they are adding more wear and tear on our roads and bridges - how is that fair? Years ago - when people had more damn sense - only commercial vehicles weighed as much as some personal SUVs weigh now. And because these monsters weight so much, every other car on the road is at risk and has to compensate to somehow be able to protect it's passengers... which usually means that every car is now heavier. F that.

And yes, having rebated for more fuel efficient/lightweight cars is a great idea, but paying for that should come from the worst offenders.

NYCshopper
03-21-2007, 07:14 PM
fyi...the usa has one (gas guzzler tax) already...

For example if you build out a Audi S4 (via CarsDirect.com) you get dinged for a $1,700 gas guzzler tax...

more info below...

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#guzzler


What is the Gas Guzzler Tax?

The Energy Tax Act of 1978 established a Gas Guzzler Tax on the sale of new model year vehicles whose fuel economy fails to meet certain statutory levels. The gas guzzler tax applies only to cars (not trucks) and is collected by the IRS.

The fuel economy figures used to determine the Gas Guzzler Tax are different from the fuel economy values provided on this web site and in the Fuel Economy Guide. The tax does not depend on your actual on-the-road mpg, which may be more or less than the EPA published value. The purpose of the Gas Guzzler Tax is to discourage the production and purchase of fuel inefficient vehicles. The amount of any applicable Gas Guzzler Tax paid by the manufacturer will be disclosed on the automobile's fuel economy label (the window sticker on new cars).

GAS GUZZLER TAX
Unadjusted MPG (combined)* Tax
at least 22.5 No tax
at least 21.5, but less than 22.5 $1000
at least 20.5, but less than 21.5 $1300
at least 19.5, but less than 20.5 $1700
at least 18.5, but less than 19.5 $2100
at least 17.5, but less than 18.5 $2600
at least 16.5, but less than 17.5 $3000
at least 15.5, but less than 16.5 $3700
at least 14.5, but less than 15.5 $4500
at least 13.5, but less than 14.5 $5400
at least 12.5, but less than 13.5 $6400
less than 12.5 $7700

* The combined fuel economy MPG value (55% city, 45% highway) is used to determine tax liability. The MPG value is also adjusted slightly to account for differences in test procedures made since the base year, but it is not adjusted for in-use short fall. The unadjusted combined MPG of a vehicle can be approximated from the city and highway values provided in the Fuel Economy Guide and on this website by the following equation:

(1/(.495/City MPG + .351/Highway MPG)) + .15

Since this is an approximate calculation, the actual gas guzzler tax may be off by one tax bracket.

Chromer
03-21-2007, 08:25 PM
And yes, having rebated for more fuel efficient/lightweight cars is a great idea, but paying for that should come from the worst offenders.

Exactly. Detroit complains that it can't compete in cars because of the extra cost to develop and build fuel efficient models (which is BS, they do it in other markets...). This would allow them to reduce the selling price of more fuel efficient cars, while still being able to recoup the costs.

Yes, it's social engineering via tax policy. But it is also an effort to monetize the external costs of oil usage and CO2 production -- something the free market cannot do on its own.

The US gas guzzler tax needs revising, it should zero at the CAFE average, and be applied to light trucks as well.

KC - Yes, it's a double dip, however raising fuel tax is a disproportionate burden on low-income working people who can't necessarily afford a new, fuel efficient car (IOW, it is regressive tax policy). Taxing/rebating new vehicles based on fuel mileage is a progressive tax policy - the higher your ability to pay, the more likely you are to pay, luxury cars/SUV's having generally worse gas mileage. Adding the rebate for miserly consumption to make it revenue-neutral makes it even nicer for low-income people...

2000wrx
03-21-2007, 08:49 PM
Wow, nasioc greenie, tree hugging, freedom sucking liberals FTW... and I thought all you libs were for "choice" ***shrug***

Lets make policy that drive industry right out of the U.S.

bakadayo
03-21-2007, 09:06 PM
And who is gonna pay for this 6k rebate?

Well obviously the gov't. The overall budget is throwing money out left and right to everyone (especially for buying the Quebecer votes). If the Tories were serious about being green, they would make it more affordable to buy green cars instead of this IMHO half-assed attempt. It should be less about the whip (taxes), and more about the cake (rebates). If they were serious about being green, which the current gov't obviously hasn't been ever since they took over.

Hazdaz
03-22-2007, 09:53 AM
Wow, nasioc greenie, tree hugging, freedom sucking liberals FTW... and I thought all you libs were for "choice" ***shrug***

Lets make policy that drive industry right out of the U.S.
I see the clueless NeoCons have pulled their heads out of the sand and come out to play. As typical of your ilk, you don't have a clue of what you are talking about.
Raising fuel efficiency would have no impact on industry... however NeoCon policies that blindly favor big business - and encourage outsourcing - most definitely do. Now go buy a Chinese-made American flag at Walmart so you have something to wrap yourself in, while thousands of US are permanently lost so Corporate America can make record profits. Hypocrite.