http://www.performancecar.co.nz/download_files/AE86.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/22/toyota-considering-return-of-rear-wheel-drive-ae86/

Our pals at Winding Road just passed along a note that Toyota might be considering re-releasing the driftastic Corolla Sport. The endearingly tossable rear-wheel-drive AE86 platform was known by many names around the world: Corolla Levin, Sprinter Trueno, Corolla GT and of course the Corolla Sport in the States. Particularly in GT-S trim, it was one of the few sporty models to make its way into Toyota dealerships, alongside the Celica and Supra, and eventually the MR2, which essentially replaced it. But it was fun and cheap, and that set it apart. Available from 1983-1987, it was one of the last affordable rear-drive cars that could take a pounding, making it a favorite of budget street racers and the emerging drift scene in the '80s and '90s.

It looks like the suits at Toyota are close to greenlighting a new version. Apparently the idea has been floated several times over the years with mixed reaction, but it seems to be gaining some momentum lately. There is reportedly some disagreement within the corporate ranks over whether or not it would actually sell, but a few officials appear to be backing it strongly. Must be some Initial D fans up in there. A modernized Hachi-Roku would have to find a suitable rwd platform, but would be a blast to see in the lineup again. Of course, we've had access to AE86 in games like Need For Speed for years now, but getting our hands on the real deal would be sweet. We'll keep our fingers crossed on this one.

When I interviewed with Toyota, they asked me what would make me ditch my Subaru and get a Toyota. I said a small, light, RWD hatchback w/ a diesel. Close enough. :)

~~Quentin

Wishful thinking. The AE86 was popular because (despite a wet-noodle chassis and fairly poor rear suspension) it was the one-eyed among the blind. The original ones weighed 2200-2400lb already and realisitcally a new iteration would be significantly heavier, so we'd basically end up with a Toyota 240SX.

it will never gonna happen :)

** right click, then save as for the awesome pic :D

Make the Scion tC RWD and there you go.

wow, i would have never thought to put a sticker on my headlight

wow, i would have never thought to put a sticker on my headlight

it's more jdm...ha

yeah it'd look so much better with no stickers...

Make the Scion tC RWD and there you go.

Exactly... Or just another RWD scion

it's more jdm...ha

yeah it'd look so much better with no stickers...

possibly a crack in his headlamp :P or blinding oncoming traffic :P

i think if toyota releases a RWD coupe; such as to fill the gap of the Silvia's the Corolla would sell like hotcakes.

Make the Scion tC RWD and there you go.

I'd rock that.

toyota is lacking a sports car as of this moment...wonder what the specs are

Whatever, but if they did, I'd buy one in an instant!

i doubt it look what happend to the is300

now its bigger "slower on edges" the is350

more power on the stright so what?

I used to have an '83 hatch and it was literally the most fun car I've ever had. I'd buy a new one in a heartbeat.

Wishful thinking. The AE86 was popular because (despite a wet-noodle chassis and fairly poor rear suspension) it was the one-eyed among the blind. The original ones weighed 2200-2400lb already and realisitcally a new iteration would be significantly heavier, so we'd basically end up with a Toyota 240SX.

You have to be realistic. The chassis and the rear suspension were actually decent for the early 80s. But I agree the latest editions would probably weigh in the neighborhood of 2800 lbs. However, to have a stiffer chassis, the car has to gain weight or go with more expensive materials and engineering like the Lotus Elise. A new AE86 iteration will probably never happen. Toyota's head officers aren't from a motorsport background like Honda. The cars have been soulless.

Personally, I think the MR-S would have been a very special car if they had put the 180 bhp 2ZZ engine in it as oppose to the mild 140 bhp engine. Toyota just keeps dropping the ball. As of now, all of Toyota's car, including the Scions, are quite boring as performance cars. The exciting cars died with the Supra Turbo, SW20 MR2 and the Celica GT4.

that'll be sweet, it'll be heavy though... most likely

Toyo's 268hp V6 in an updated RWD tC would be a hoot to drive...

Make the Scion tC RWD and there you go.

Word. Would have a been a no brainer for me when I was looking for a car last year. Even with the greatly-decreased storage space compared to the Yaris, I would have found a way to justify the tC. :D

On a similar note, I was watching "Import Racer" on ESPN 2 yesterday, and noticed the complete lack of any newer Toyota on teh Time Attack series. I dont think I even saw a Celica.

Toyota really needs a sports car, bad. Those old Corollas were a hoot. Even the FWD cars werent bad, if they had the "sweet 16". I had a FX-16 that was alot of fun to toss about, RWD would have made that car a cult hero.

Yeah what on earth is toyota doing, they used to have such exciting cars.

The AE86 Corolla back then, now we have a 3500lb pig Corolla now.
The Celica turbocharged AWD GT4 back then, the Celica chick car now.
The rare edgy MR2 turbo back then, the MR-S, slower than balls, chick car now.
The Supra turbo back then, with nothing to compare now.

Yeah what on earth is toyota doing, they used to have such exciting cars.

The AE86 Corolla back then, now we have a 3500lb pig Corolla now.
The Celica turbocharged AWD GT4 back then, the Celica chick car now.
The rare edgy MR2 turbo back then, the MR-S, slower than balls, chick car now.
The Supra turbo back then, with nothing to compare now.

Why sell a few sport models when you can sell a ton of bland Camrys?

Yeah what on earth is toyota doing, they used to have such exciting cars.

The Celica turbocharged AWD GT4 back then, the Celica chick car now.


If I recall correctly, the awd turbo Celica All Trac wasn't a great performer during it's time. Good, but not great. I believe they are sought after now a days because of their rarity.

Toyo's 268hp V6 in an updated RWD tC would be a hoot to drive...

I've always thought the tC would be much better as a RWD car:devil:

If I recall correctly, the awd turbo Celica All Trac wasn't a great performer during it's time. Good, but not great. I believe they are sought after now a days because of their rarity.

That is correct. They were a little overweight for the power the 3S-GTE provided, and had every option Toyota had. I worked on a few when I was with Toyota, and parts are UNGODLY expensive. Rear LSD diff is like 2800.00. They were pretty reliable though.

I can say for sure that this is under development.
And Target weight is sub 3K

I've been wishing for Toyota to rerelease the AE86. I hope it does happen.

I can say for sure that this is under development.
And Target weight is sub 3K

sub 3k? They made the celica 2500 pounds. I'm sure they can do MUCH better than a sub 3k target.

This is what they should do
2600-2700 lbs
hatchback
manual only
1 trim level only (no GT/GT-S bs)
LSD
tight suspension
close ratio gearing (no more BS extra long gearing so you can do a 0-60 run with only 1 shift)

Toyota only needs to make 1 ulimate sporty celica/corolla to get back and challenge Honda for the crown. Yes it's a small niche market that's why you only make it in 1 trim. Stop watering cars down, that's why the last celica (even though it had a lot of potential) flopped.

Oh yeah, and all of that for a low price of $20K USD please :D

sub 3k? They made the celica 2500 pounds. I'm sure they can do MUCH better than a sub 3k target.

This is what they should do
2600-2700 lbs
hatchback
manual only
1 trim level only (no GT/GT-S bs)
LSD
tight suspension
close ratio gearing (no more BS extra long gearing so you can do a 0-60 run with only 1 shift)

Toyota only needs to make 1 ulimate sporty celica/corolla to get back and challenge Honda for the crown. Yes it's a small niche market that's why you only make it in 1 trim. Stop watering cars down, that's why the last celica (even though it had a lot of potential) flopped.

Oh yeah, and all of that for a low price of $20K USD please :D

+1 I agree, make it a hardcore focused car

I can say for sure that this is under development.
And Target weight is sub 3K

Really? care to expand?

I'm really suprised at the overall positive comments for this car... Hopefully toyota follows through *properly*, they could have a hit on their hands...

sub 3k? They made the celica 2500 pounds. I'm sure they can do MUCH better than a sub 3k target.

This is what they should do
2600-2700 lbs
hatchback
manual only
1 trim level only (no GT/GT-S bs)
LSD
tight suspension
close ratio gearing (no more BS extra long gearing so you can do a 0-60 run with only 1 shift)

Toyota only needs to make 1 ulimate sporty celica/corolla to get back and challenge Honda for the crown. Yes it's a small niche market that's why you only make it in 1 trim. Stop watering cars down, that's why the last celica (even though it had a lot of potential) flopped.

Oh yeah, and all of that for a low price of $20K USD please :D

Yeah... you hear that toyota? follow this ^^ verbatim

Toyota is lame now, this will never happen.

Yeah what on earth is toyota doing, they used to have such exciting cars.

The AE86 Corolla back then, now we have a 3500lb pig Corolla now.
The Celica turbocharged AWD GT4 back then, the Celica chick car now.
The rare edgy MR2 turbo back then, the MR-S, slower than balls, chick car now.
The Supra turbo back then, with nothing to compare now.

The Corolla is 2550 lbs according to edmunds. Link (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/toyota/corolla/100773493/specs.html)

~~Quentin

sub 3k? They made the celica 2500 pounds. I'm sure they can do MUCH better than a sub 3k target.

This is what they should do
2600-2700 lbs
hatchback
manual only
1 trim level only (no GT/GT-S bs)
LSD
tight suspension
close ratio gearing (no more BS extra long gearing so you can do a 0-60 run with only 1 shift)

Toyota only needs to make 1 ulimate sporty celica/corolla to get back and challenge Honda for the crown. Yes it's a small niche market that's why you only make it in 1 trim. Stop watering cars down, that's why the last celica (even though it had a lot of potential) flopped.

Oh yeah, and all of that for a low price of $20K USD please :D


That's great for a few people, but I think they should offer an automanual of some sort to satisfy the rest of the population. They have to sell cars, after all. I like the idea of 1 trim level though, Keeps it focused.

I was thinking Scion when I read the title. I'm pretty sure they dropped the xA and xB from their line up and are due to introduce new models soon. It would fit well with their marketing strategy.

Personally, I think the MR-S would have been a very special car if they had put the 180 bhp 2ZZ engine in it as oppose to the mild 140 bhp engine. Toyota just keeps dropping the ball.

I completely agree. A good friend has an MR-S and it is a fun car to drive, but needs more power. A tiny convertible like that is completely impractical, hence it is a toy. That fact should have been recognized. Toyota could have easily put the 180hp motor in that car and I think it would have sold much better.

Really? care to expand?

I'm really suprised at the overall positive comments for this car... Hopefully toyota follows through *properly*, they could have a hit on their hands...

I just know some of the people hired to work on this project. Some of them worked on the original Miata project.

You know what would be cool? If they kept pop up headlights :D

This might prompt Nissan to put into production that New Age 510 they've been tarting around. That would be nice.

They could use the tC but I hope that they would do a serious redesign first. If this is going to be a throw-back car it needs more squareness and angles, and a skinny slope-y front end. Otherwise it's just gonna look... "off".

Vostok 7

skinny slope-y front end.
Vostok 7

I love skinny slopy 80s front ends!

Of course the AE86
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1205171/2/istockphoto_1205171_ae86_trueno.jpg

Audi Quattro
http://www.autoreview.ru/new_site/year2001/n09/news/800/max/Audi-Quattro.jpg

Scirocco
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0609_z+1987_volkswagen_scirocco_16v+cammisa_front_ right.jpg

The key will be to keep it relatively inexpensive. The TC has a base price of about $16-17k and the Corolla starts at $14k. If they keep it around there i just might have to consider it for my next car. :)

BTW,
At least one of the people on the design team is a Kensia (sp?) engineer

A cheap, RWD, 2500lb, ~200hp, 2 door would be a neat product to see these days.

I really do wish there was an affordable (read: CHEAP), and reliable RWD car out on the market right now.

Make it look good, give the engine some potential, then tune it down for sale, and it will sell.

I cannot stand this market of all FWD cars.

^^^Exactly. As if right now, if you want a RWD vehicle it's going to be either big, expensive, or big AND expensive...

(or it isn't all that practical... the Miata is a good example. It's not too expensive and it's small, but it's a roadster...)

I love skinny slopy 80s front ends!

Of course the AE86
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1205171/2/istockphoto_1205171_ae86_trueno.jpg

Audi Quattro
http://www.autoreview.ru/new_site/year2001/n09/news/800/max/Audi-Quattro.jpg

Scirocco
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0609_z+1987_volkswagen_scirocco_16v+cammisa_front_ right.jpg

that won't happen anymore...
now aday... all four wheels are pushed out to the corners as far as possible...
leaving as little overhangs as possible to be cool...
and the hood... it gets so high that it almost obscure driver's view...:lol:
that flat hood in the 80's won't be seen anymore...
the high hood example... the new corolla...
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/12/2007.toyota.corolla.european.version_006.jpg

I'd say it's a good idea but I just know it'd end up looking like a bug with tiny windows.

that won't happen anymore...
now aday... all four wheels are pushed out to the corners as far as possible...
leaving as little overhangs as possible to be cool...
and the hood... it gets so high that it almost obscure driver's view...:lol:
that flat hood in the 80's won't be seen anymore...
the high hood example... the new corolla...
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/12/2007.toyota.corolla.european.version_006.jpg

I cant stand the new "high hood" cars, the tC as a prime example of this.....NASIOC needs that little barfy smiley

Toyota did bring back the FJ. Well, sort of. Not in the sense that in brought back the exact same FJ40, but there is some lineage.

The highly doubt the new AE86 will look close to its older sibling. It just needs to fufilled the main requirements of RWD, lightweight, and being a relatively affordable car.

If they build it, customers will come........

BTW,
At least one of the people on the design team is a Kensia (sp?) engineer

excuse my ignorance...but

What is kensia?... I googled it but couldn't find anything (probably spelling)

You know what would be cool? If they kept pop up headlights :D

ahhh I don't know about the pop ups.. I think they should just make something simple... like these

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/358000-358999/358417_34.jpg

Found a sketch from a few years ago... not too bad, but could still use a few changes

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/757000-757999/757654_131_full.jpg

I cant stand the new "high hood" cars, the tC as a prime example of this.....NASIOC needs that little barfy smiley

Blame the EU and their "Pedestrian Safety" initiatives that are the cause for the "high hood" look of new world cars. There has to be a certain amount of free space between the underside of the hood and any hard points.

As for Toyota working on Son Of AE86 as represented in Best Motoring and the like, good luck. Toyota ceased production on the Celica and MR-2/S because it was getting out of sporty cars. Given their success with bland cars, there's no reason for them to reverse that decision.

And this ties in the Nissan/Neo-510 desire as well - where are Nissan/Toyota going to get a small RWD platform? Nissan's best chance was with a merger with GM and access to Kappa. Toyota? FWD city over there.

As for Toyota working on Son Of AE86 as represented in Best Motoring and the like, good luck.

i don't know man, don't be so sure... did you read mh_WRX's posts?

And this ties in the Nissan/Neo-510 desire as well - where are Nissan/Toyota going to get a small RWD platform? Nissan's best chance was with a merger with GM and access to Kappa. Toyota? FWD city over there.

Toyota has a RWD platform from the MR-s, and the Altezza... Some how they came up with those, i'm sure they can figure out something...

Blame the EU and their "Pedestrian Safety" initiatives that are the cause for the "high hood" look of new world cars. There has to be a certain amount of free space between the underside of the hood and any hard points.

As for Toyota working on Son Of AE86 as represented in Best Motoring and the like, good luck. Toyota ceased production on the Celica and MR-2/S because it was getting out of sporty cars. Given their success with bland cars, there's no reason for them to reverse that decision.

And this ties in the Nissan/Neo-510 desire as well - where are Nissan/Toyota going to get a small RWD platform? Nissan's best chance was with a merger with GM and access to Kappa. Toyota? FWD city over there.

:lol:

Helllooooo? Toyota and Nissan have NO RWD platforms? So I guess the Altezza/Lexus IS don't have RWD? And I guess the 350Z and Infiniti G and M series cars aren't RWD either? Man, I'm gonna have to rethink EVERYTHING. I thought for SURE my 350Z spun it's rear tires the other day but maybe I was drunk or something :confused:

Vostok 7

:lol:

Helllooooo? Toyota and Nissan have NO RWD platforms? So I guess the Altezza/Lexus IS don't have RWD? And I guess the 350Z and Infiniti G and M series cars aren't RWD either? Man, I'm gonna have to rethink EVERYTHING. I thought for SURE my 350Z spun it's rear tires the other day but maybe I was drunk or something :confused:

Vostok 7

So are you saying that the Lexus IS/GS platform and 350Z/G35 platform can be used for sub $20K RWD compact?

Let's be real people. If it atually turns out to be sub 3000lbs RWD with close to 200HP, that means it's like the Civic Si, only lighter, RWD, with no huge volume sellers to share platform with. That's practically an S2000 coupe. How in the hell is that going to be sub $20K?

If anything, I can see it being light and relatively inexpensive, around $20K. But powerwise I wouldn't expect anything beyond tC's 165HP 4pot. Granted, even this would be a hot seller for Nabisco crowd.

So are you saying that the Lexus IS/GS platform and 350Z/G35 platform can be used for sub $20K RWD compact?

Let's be real people. If it atually turns out to be sub 3000lbs RWD with close to 200HP, that means it's like the Civic Si, only lighter, RWD, with no huge volume sellers to share platform with. That's practically an S2000 coupe. How in the hell is that going to be sub $20K?

If anything, I can see it being light and relatively inexpensive, around $20K. But powerwise I wouldn't expect anything beyond tC's 165HP 4pot. Granted, even this would be a hot seller for Nabisco crowd.

Anything can be adjusted. If the Civic and Accord can become 3 SUVs and a pickup truck, anything is possible.

The point is, Nissan and Toyota have the technology. They definitely wouldn't have to outsource a chassis or drive train from *shudder* GM.

Nissan has done this sort of thing before. Like the 200SX and 240SX, for instance. One was FWD and the other was RWD, but they both had similar chassis (arguably) and the engines were interchangeable with the right parts.

Vostok 7

The Lexus IS platform is WAAAY too expensive to use.

The TC platform won't work, its FWD. You'd have to re-engineer it so substantially that I doubt you'd save any money vs. starting from scratch.

That's not to say you can't use the engine (which would be the logical choice if you want to keep it cheap- particularly since there's a bolt on supercharger already available for it) and other parts.

There's been some chatter around now that Toyota bought GM's stake in Subaru that there will likely be some parts sharing, what if they used the Impreza platform?

Anything can be adjusted. If the Civic and Accord can become 3 SUVs and a pickup truck, anything is possible.

The point is, Nissan and Toyota have the technology. They definitely wouldn't have to outsource a chassis or drive train from *shudder* GM.

Nissan has done this sort of thing before. Like the 200SX and 240SX, for instance. One was FWD and the other was RWD, but they both had similar chassis (arguably) and the engines were interchangeable with the right parts.

Vostok 7

I guess something like heavily cheapend last generation IS might work, assuming that it's not too far off with the current crash test standard.

Certainly there is a niche for an affordable RWD coupe as so many people in Nabisco have pointed out. It's probably not a big market nor profitable, but it's there. Maybe Toyota will make this car Scion, as they seem to be trying pretty hard to keep it young.

You know who should really catch that niche though? Mazda. They are already making the Miata anyway, and they had that excellent Kabura concept. They just need to make a Miata coupe, and it will be a lot more desirable to the import crowd than anything GM might make off of the Kappa just on the brand reputation alone.

And as I said, a Toyota 240SX is what we would end up with.

Things like manual steering/windows/locks, no AC/airbags are fine in a track toy like an Exige, but that's because its price is high enough that the manufacturer doesn't need to sell a few hundred thousand of them to break even and because the manufacturer doesn't have to make compromises concerning cost, safety and practicality.

However, if you want it to be somewhat affordable you can forget exotic materials and it'll have to be comfortable/practical enough to sell in large numbers. And that means steel body, airbags, AC, power steering etc. If they build this car, it's going to be a hardtop 4-seater Miata if we're lucky, not a budget front-engine Exige.

Since Toyota and Lexus are the same company, I was just hoping they would have released the previous gen IS as an IS200 over here in America, but under the Toyota banner. High revving 3SGE with dual VVT-i, put out 200ps (or was it 205?) w/ a 6spd RWD tranny (this was available in Japan, why not US?)...Skip the leather, sunroof, and amenities, and sell it in America! What was wrong with that idea???? I'm sure it would have come in at the low to mid $20K's...

Oh wait, that makes sense (from a fan's point of view)...which is why a corporation would never do that.

<sigh>

This is bringing back my memories of my hachi...

you know what

remember what nissan did few years back brought the old z back
toyota should do the same find some ae86 in great condition work on it
and resale it

The Lexus IS platform is WAAAY too expensive to use.

The TC platform won't work, its FWD. You'd have to re-engineer it so substantially that I doubt you'd save any money vs. starting from scratch.

That's not to say you can't use the engine (which would be the logical choice if you want to keep it cheap- particularly since there's a bolt on supercharger already available for it) and other parts.

There's been some chatter around now that Toyota bought GM's stake in Subaru that there will likely be some parts sharing, what if they used the Impreza platform?

Heck, the IS is probably the perfect platform since it's a small car and it's technically the descendant of the hachi, at least according to Toyota. It really would NOT be hard to re-engineer the chassis. We're not talking about rocket science. These are Unit body construction, right? All it would take is a few adjustments to the front and rear subframes with some tweaks to the suspension geometry to account for wheelbase and width changes if any, bolt it all into a new body and you're good to go. As far as the drivetrain, RWD is alot less picky than other drive types. It wouldn't be hard to shorten the length of the drive line for a shorter wheelbase. Use a power bumped 4-cyl from the tC with a 6spd manual transmission from an IS and you have a winner. Heck, to make it easy you could use the 2.5l V6 from the current IS250. It's only 200hp, but if we're talking a sub 2500lb car that's more than enough. At that point it would just be engineering the location of all the major components to get a good 50/50 weight balance. Taking a page from BMW's playbook and mounting the engine behind the front axle deep in the firewall would be a good way to pull that off.

I've seen people make AWD and RWD Civics and Integras using CRV drivetrains. Making a RWD tC from IS parts isn't too much of a stretch.

Vostok 7

That'd be a 3000lb Lexus 318i then.

That'd be a 3000lb Lexus 318i then.

:lol:

Vostok 7

excuse my ignorance...but

What is kensia?... I googled it but couldn't find anything (probably spelling)

The issue was spelling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansei_Engineering

You know who should really catch that niche though? Mazda. They are already making the Miata anyway, and they had that excellent Kabura concept. They just need to make a Miata coupe, and it will be a lot more desirable to the import crowd than anything GM might make off of the Kappa just on the brand reputation alone.

I agree -- and it would certainly handle better than a Toyota. Plus, with the Mazdaspeed3 engine... :devil:

I've been dreaming about that for a few years now. Hopefully it'll come true.

If they build it, customers will come........

No, they won't.

I REALLY hope Toyota goes through with these plans. As many have said, it's been a while since Toyota has produced a car catering to the sports compact crowd. I am definitely going to keep an eye out for this. sential and mh_wrx, definitely keeps us posted with any new details. Thanks!

more power on the stright so what?

What does this mean?

What does this mean?

Mad tyte JDM version of saying "the addition of more power allows the car to have a higher accelleration capability on straightaways". ;)

upnygimp:
You might not come, but others will. Open your mind man; this is a new time in the automobile world. Whats old is new; Beetle, Mini, Mustang, Camaro, why not the hachi or the 510. There are plenty of people with disposable income that want something fun to drive or drift. Hell, half of the people on this board have spent thousands on aftermarket parts, why not a fun car?

If this comes in at around $12k new, I'm in. I don't need 200 HP or any of this amenity stuff. If it's light enough, 160 HP will be fine. Just give me something spartan, small, light, and RWD; I'm in. I drive a Subaru, I don't need luxury. It's all about the drive.

you can buy AWD toyota corollas in japan...

and the mazda3 is built on the ford c1 platform (shared with the awd volvo s40). i'm guessing a rwd mazda3 should be possible -- you can after all buy awd mazda3 in japan.

My idea of a good Saleable recipe.

>200hp 2.0ltr NA with individual throttle bodies, high redline.
< 2500 lbs... at least on the no option car (see below)
2 door hatch
6 speed close ratio manual
Limited slip diff.
Brakes that allow use of 15 inch wheels.

Hopefully they offer one with no options.
1. Roll up windows
2. no sun roof
3. no stereo or a basic one
4. AC as an option

And call it the Trueno GT apex in the US :)

I would buy the first car off the boat!

Happy Happy :)

If this comes in at around $12k new, I'm in. I don't need 200 HP or any of this amenity stuff. If it's light enough, 160 HP will be fine. Just give me something spartan, small, light, and RWD; I'm in. I drive a Subaru, I don't need luxury. It's all about the drive.

while the base corolla is 14k? if this ever happens, the most logical price would be what the celica GTS's price

Light-weight or affordable, pick one.

The original ones were light because they were barebones deathtraps. That was fine 25 years ago because all compact cars were like that, so you could still sell lots of them. Today the only people that would want a car with no A/C, airbags, power steering and whatnot are driving enthusiasts looking for a track toy, not the average Joe looking to get from A to B. This would make it a low-volume niche model, and that would double the price right there.

How many people would REALLY pay WRX or even STi money for a 160hp or so coupe?

upnygimp:
You might not come, but others will. Open your mind man; this is a new time in the automobile world. Whats old is new; Beetle, Mini, Mustang, Camaro, why not the hachi or the 510. There are plenty of people with disposable income that want something fun to drive or drift. Hell, half of the people on this board have spent thousands on aftermarket parts, why not a fun car?

Like it or not, the only people in love with these cars cannot afford them.

So no, they will not come. Its so far from Toyota's corporate plans at this point that it won't happen to begin with, so this is a moot point. Same with the CRX rumors.

Light-weight or affordable, pick one.

The original ones were light because they were barebones deathtraps. That was fine 25 years ago because all compact cars were like that, so you could still sell lots of them. Today the only people that would want a car with no A/C, airbags, power steering and whatnot are driving enthusiasts looking for a track toy, not the average Joe looking to get from A to B. This would make it a low-volume niche model, and that would double the price right there.

How many people would REALLY pay WRX or even STi money for a 160hp or so coupe?

you can have lightweight and affordable.. look at the current corolla... it's 2550 pounds and costs 14k...

I think almost any car sold today is going to have A/C, power steering, and probably even an airbag or two... The weight saving options (and cost saving) will be stuff like Leather interior, power windows/locks, cruise control, seat warmers, navigation, 6 disc cd changer...etc.

If toyota can make a car that has the same amenities as the Honda Civic SI, except that it's RWD, I think both enthusiasts and Toyota would be happy. Enthusiasts would finally have a light compact RWD, and if it was hatch it'd be more practical. And Toyota would be happy because they could sell a decent amount. RWD is might not sell as well in northern climates, but you might gain a few in southern climates... so it balances out...

I think they could sell this car fully optioned out for around 25K, or sell a barebones one with no options, for 19-20K.

I heard this rumor about maybe a year ago.

They were supposed to re-release basically the exact same car as the original (but with all the safety standards now, it will be all truck size :rolleyes: )

If they did make it very close to the original, flip ups and all, I'd buy that sucker quick! :cool:

you can have lightweight and affordable.. look at the current corolla... it's 2550 pounds and costs 14k...

I think almost any car sold today is going to have A/C, power steering, and probably even an airbag or two... The weight saving options (and cost saving) will be stuff like Leather interior, power windows/locks, cruise control, seat warmers, navigation, 6 disc cd changer...etc.
If toyota can make a car that has the same amenities as the Honda Civic SI, except that it's RWD, I think both enthusiasts and Toyota would be happy. Enthusiasts would finally have a light compact RWD, and if it was hatch it'd be more practical. And Toyota would be happy because they could sell a decent amount. RWD is might not sell as well in northern climates, but you might gain a few in southern climates... so it balances out...

I think they could sell this car fully optioned out for around 25K, or sell a barebones one with no options, for 19-20K.


The reason that the old cars were light was because the chassis was crap. Everyone complains how GD chassis is so much heavier than GC, but on the flip side that's exactly why GD imprezas get stellar crash test ratings. Making a car with eggshell chassis is simply not an option any more, especially for a company as visible as Toyota. Having a two star rated death trap that caters exclusively to the young and the reckless is NOT the kind of PR Toyota wants.

Besides, how in the world can Toyota make a RWD Si and undercuts the Honda in price? The only reason that the Si costs what it does is because it's a tuned version of one of the biggest selling cars in the world.

I'm not saying Toyota can't make a RWD compact, all I'm saying is it's not going to be light, powerful, and affordable. I don't even think you'll get to pick two. Pick one and a half.

you can have lightweight and affordable.. look at the current corolla... it's 2550 pounds and costs 14k...

Apples and oranges. The Corolla is a 126hp FWD car with twist beam rear suspension, tiny brakes and cookie cutter wheels.

Make it RWD and give it a real rear suspension and you're already looking at 2800lb. Then add a 200hp engine along with a suitable cooling system, exhaust, transmission, brakes and wheels to fit over them and you're probably closer to 3000lb. Subtract two doors and you're left with a fairly expensive 2900lb car.

The only reason cars like the Civic Si, STi or M3 are affordable is because they're built on mass-market platforms and production lines.

upnygimp:
Thats the point of having dreams.....
Dude you are so negative. Let the people want what they want. Geez, turn that from upside.
P.S. Who cares about Toyotas plans. Remember the Supra was dead, thats coming back. Lexus IS-F, is the M3 beater.

The reason that the old cars were light was because the chassis was crap. Everyone complains how GD chassis is so much heavier than GC, but on the flip side that's exactly why GD imprezas get stellar crash test ratings. Making a car with eggshell chassis is simply not an option any more, especially for a company as visible as Toyota. Having a two star rated death trap that caters exclusively to the young and the reckless is NOT the kind of PR Toyota wants.

Besides, how in the world can Toyota make a RWD Si and undercuts the Honda in price? The only reason that the Si costs what it does is because it's a tuned version of one of the biggest selling cars in the world.

I'm not saying Toyota can't make a RWD compact, all I'm saying is it's not going to be light, powerful, and affordable. I don't even think you'll get to pick two. Pick one and a half.

I agree with most of what you're saying... Maybe this platform is a new one, maybe it's from the IS300? IDK. Price? If the 350z can sell new for 27k, I think they'd have to undercut it by a little bit...

Apples and oranges. The Corolla is a 126hp FWD car with twist beam rear suspension, tiny brakes and cookie cutter wheels.

Make it RWD and give it a real rear suspension and you're already looking at 2800lb. Then add a 200hp engine along with a suitable cooling system, exhaust, transmission, brakes and wheels to fit over them and you're probably closer to 3000lb. Subtract two doors and you're left with a fairly expensive 2900lb car.

The only reason cars like the Civic Si, STi or M3 are affordable is because they're built on mass-market platforms and production lines.

I agree with most of this too...EXCEPT CALLING THE M3 AFFORDABLE. You're going to piss some yuppies off with that statement...haha. The IS300 weighed in at 3200 and change, fully optioned out... If this were the chassis they used for this "project" I think you're right...it would be tough to get any lighter than 2900 pounds... But even then I'd love a car that was 200-220 hp @ 2900 pounds...WITH RWD...

i've heard this rumor too many times now.... i'll believe it when i see it...

The way Toyota's corporate thinking is, I just don't see the new RWD Corolla coming back unless they can share production costs with other current existing cars. Unless there's a decent profit model, I can't see how they would dedicate the parts, assembly line, and investment into a small-niche market vehicle...

That said, I'd love for it to come out...I can always use another car!!!:banana: :banana: :banana:

The car that may share the platform is the upcoming IS Coupe

Make the Scion tC RWD and there you go.

Scions with their center gauges pisses me off...drove my friend's xA to Austin and it was horrible cause when I looked down I saw nothing, had to look to the side.

Scions with their center gauges pisses me off...drove my friend's xA to Austin and it was horrible cause when I looked down I saw nothing, had to look to the side.

The tC doesn't have center-mounted gauges.

The tC doesn't have center-mounted gauges.

Shows how much I care (know) about Scioncs. :lol:

As much as i love the 86 i dont think toyota will bring it back. I mean people will buy the car, but will it be bringing in toyota mass bank? They are a corperation. how did the BMW 318ti do? could they use the BMW ideas for the 86?

I don't think the 318ti did all that well. Think they are more favorable as used cars than they were new.

It seems to me that if Toyota were to bring back a small, lightweight, relatively cheap sports/sporty car (regardless of whether it's FWD or RWD), it would be under the Scion brand name. Their marketing strategy is to attract younger buyers to the Toyota "family" with Scions, then, as the buyers' income level and needs grow over time, they move up the ladder to Camrys, Highlanders, etc. Word is there's a chance they'll be making an attractive looking hybrid in the near future, too...

If I am not mistaken, there is a spot for a driveshaft in the corolla platform. This is needed for the 4WD version of the matrix. With a engine/gearbox driving a shaft into a beefier rear differential, I am not seeing how this is so terribly tough to do. I mean, hell Toyota will not have to be the first to route a transverse engine's power to the rear wheels (current M5). Does this seem too outlandish? If so, why?

If I am not mistaken, there is a spot for a driveshaft in the corolla platform. This is needed for the 4WD version of the matrix. With a engine/gearbox driving a shaft into a beefier rear differential, I am not seeing how this is so terribly tough to do. I mean, hell Toyota will not have to be the first to route a transverse engine's power to the rear wheels (current M5). Does this seem too outlandish? If so, why?


Do you mean BMW M5?

I've neve seen a RWD car wit ha transverse engine (from the factory)!

I don't think the 318ti did all that well. Think they are more favorable as used cars than they were new.

I agree.
I also think that an inexpensive RWD Toyota would do better than the 318ti did. There is a void right now that someone needs to fill.

I think you guys are asking for too much from the AE86 re-make. When it came out, even the GT-S wasn't exactly "amazing", but it was a quick car that was fun to drive, and was easy to upgrade. The old IS chassis would work perfectly, and I think even the new IS chassis would work well too (maybe if it was shortened a bit).

Do you mean BMW M5?

I've neve seen a RWD car wit ha transverse engine (from the factory)!

Lamborghini Miura did it

Lamborghini Miura did it

I think he meant front engined and RWD

I think he meant front engined and RWD

i figured so too, but i'm a ****ing prick.

It seems to me that if Toyota were to bring back a small, lightweight, relatively cheap sports/sporty car (regardless of whether it's FWD or RWD), it would be under the Scion brand name. Their marketing strategy is to attract younger buyers to the Toyota "family" with Scions, then, as the buyers' income level and needs grow over time, they move up the ladder to Camrys, Highlanders, etc. Word is there's a chance they'll be making an attractive looking hybrid in the near future, too...

that doesn't really make sense though...

first off they have a cheap, small sporty car at Scion... the TC

If they wanted to start bringing people into the toyota family, then they need to have each car type throughout each brand...

For example, if someone wanted a small sporty coupe, they could buy the TC, but then say they own that for a few years and want a coupe from Toyota, there's nothing... You can't expect all coupe owners to switch over to sedans and SUVs. Some people just really like 2 door cars and they'll switch brands if it's not available. If Toyota were to do it right, they'd have the TC at scion (or a replacement sporty coupe, FWD or RWD), then a mid range coupe at Toyota (less than 25k, RWD would be nice), then an expensive high end coupe at Lexus (starting at 30 or 35K, RWD or AWD)

Do you mean BMW M5?

I've neve seen a RWD car wit ha transverse engine (from the factory)!

Yeah, I do. And yes, the M5 has a transverse engine powering the rear wheels. The engine ended up being rather long. Or so the popular science article went. In any case, does my idea sound at all doable at a mass production level?

sub 3k? They made the celica 2500 pounds. I'm sure they can do MUCH better than a sub 3k target.

This is what they should do
2600-2700 lbs
hatchback
manual only
1 trim level only (no GT/GT-S bs)
LSD
tight suspension
close ratio gearing (no more BS extra long gearing so you can do a 0-60 run with only 1 shift)
..............
Oh yeah, and all of that for a low price of $20K USD please :D

So basically an S13 with a 2ZZ??? ....

Also, no slush box does not go over well here in the land of cell phones and bad drivers.

I love the idea, unfortunately this will most likely never come out of Toyota's doors. It's all wishful thinking :(

So basically an S13 with a 2ZZ??? ....

Also, no slush box does not go over well here in the land of cell phones and bad drivers.

I love the idea, unfortunately this will most likely never come out of Toyota's doors. It's all wishful thinking :(

More like how many Initial D fans will actually choose to buy it or even have the money to buy it! :lol:

I am willing to bet money that Toyota will show a RWD smaller car as at least a concept in the next 2 years. Not a lot of money....but money.

;)

I am willing to bet money that Toyota will show a RWD smaller car as at least a concept in the next 2 years. Not a lot of money....but money.

;)

There's no doubt as there have been pictures of a RWD car being test at the Nurburgring. But the question is, is it an AE86 successor?

I have no information on price or production plans. Only engineering goals.

There's no doubt as there have been pictures of a RWD car being test at the Nurburgring. But the question is, is it an AE86 successor?

you have any links to those pics?

Yeah, I do. And yes, the M5 has a transverse engine powering the rear wheels. The engine ended up being rather long. Or so the popular science article went. In any case, does my idea sound at all doable at a mass production level?

Completely untrue. Neither the I6, V8 or new V10 was most definitely transverse in the M5. All were longitudinally mounted. Transverse mounting in a strict FR layout would create more problems than it would solve for "lack of space".

Yeah, I do. And yes, the M5 has a transverse engine powering the rear wheels. The engine ended up being rather long. Or so the popular science article went. In any case, does my idea sound at all doable at a mass production level?

So me an article or a picture.

http://www.bmwm5.com/articles/m5e60/pressrelease2/10-800.jpg

look you can clearly see the valve covers and they are clearly longitudinal.

No car company has EVER produced a front tranverse engined car that was RWD.

transverse front AWD
transverse mid RWD
transverse rear RWD

yes all of these, but no transvers front RWD, it would be an engineering for the sake of engineering. Even audi spins the engine to longitudinal for their quattro cars.

In this weeks Autoweek, Toyota has an advertisement for the AE86 Corolla. It basically is a historical blurb about the AE86. Kind of makes me think they actually are considering it.

In this weeks Autoweek, Toyota has an advertisement for the AE86 Corolla. It basically is a historical blurb about the AE86. Kind of makes me think they actually are considering it.

DUDE! scan it in.

So me an article or a picture.


look you can clearly see the valve covers and they are clearly longitudinal.

No car company has EVER produced a front tranverse engined car that was RWD.

transverse front AWD
transverse mid RWD
transverse rear RWD

yes all of these, but no transvers front RWD, it would be an engineering for the sake of engineering. Even audi spins the engine to longitudinal for their quattro cars.


Sorry, must have either misread or something. Could have sworn it had said transverse RWD. Must have misread, because that picture proves my previous statement wrong. Thanks for setting me strait

You know honestly, with how Toyota is doing right now, they could afford to make this car. Will they? Who knows, but for the last couple years, as they've gained market share, they have also been trying to lower the average age of ownership as to not have a drop off in sales as the baby boomers retire. That's what led to the Scion brand and has done pretty well for them. As these american car companies lose sales, every quarter it seems to be Toyota and some others making it up... I think they were up 7% last quarter in market share, or something to that effect. Bottom line, they will be the No.1 car maker in the next year or so in terms of volume and last time I checked (don't quote me on this), they were also the most PROFITABLE car maker in the world per volume. You pretty much slap a Toyota label on anything and it will sell... within reason. I know the MR doesn't sell well, but you want niche, they made that thing and it certainly doesn't have a big market. They came out with the outlandish FJ and I see those things EVERYWHERE, both in California sun, and this past winter and now in Colorado as well... even some of the millionaires in my parents neighborhood have them. Right now would be the PERFECT time for Toyota to come out with this and reinject some "sport" into their line, especially since Lexus cars are so numb. Car companies get into racing to raise brand image and sell their grocery getters and having a fun icon does the same thing. Typically when toyota fails at something they come back stronger until they conquer. I'm sure they will have a huge instant cult car in this AE86 if built that will bring another demographic into the Toyota fold. Look what they did with the new Tundra, they went all out on that thing.

There is (or at least was) a Miata coupe. It was a JDM only car, though. I'm told the difference between the coupe and the convertible was 22 lbs. Don't convertibles unsually weigh more than coupes, not the other way around? The only information I've seen says that it was produced from 2002-2004.

A AE86 or 510 update would be cool to see. I doubt they'd do it, let alone pull it off..

Another option is the Club Sport setup from Porsche: in the late 80s and early 90s Porsche took base model 911s, 944s, and 968s and stripped them of most of the luxuries. There was very little under coating, sound deadening, no options (no sunroof, oh darn...), only the front seats, and fiberglass instead of steel where they could get away with it. Factory engine, but most other details were removed or adjusted.
From the factory it was supposed to cost less than a standard Carrera, but by the time it got to the customer it was the same amount. Because it was a niche car, it wasn't produced in large numbers and sold in even smaller numbers. The sheer rarity makes it a collectible today, but it wasn't that popular then. And the Club Sport option hasn't been brought back since...

Several people have voiced opinions that the curvy, taller hoods aren't nice. What about the classics: the Porsche 356 speedster. It's not tall, but it is curvy. Does that detract from the styling? For that matter, with the 80s: which 911 is better looking, the original headlight style or the flatnose design?

There is (or at least was) a Miata coupe. It was a JDM only car, though. I'm told the difference between the coupe and the convertible was 22 lbs. Don't convertibles unsually weigh more than coupes, not the other way around? The only information I've seen says that it was produced from 2002-2004.

It weighed more because it was a coupe built off of a purpose-built convertible chassis. Mostly, that means that all of the extra bracing to prevent flex in an open box(convertible) can't be removed, and adds weight, but lends itself to a more rigid design in a closed box(coupe).

The Miata Coupe...

Should have come stateside!!!

http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/MiataCoupe2_2004.gif

The Miata Coupe...

Should have come stateside!!!

http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/MiataCoupe2_2004.gif

That is beautiful! :eek: :eek:

The Miata Coupe...

Should have come stateside!!!

http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/MiataCoupe2_2004.gif

WTH? is that real?

that's pretty damn cool

More pics:
http://www.triplezoom.com/gallery/albums/01%20Mazda/Miata%20-%20Roadster%20-%20MX5/Miata%20Coupe/006.jpg
http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/rscoupeatype_g21%20.jpg

the 2002 version
http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/rscoupeetype_g21.jpg
http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/03tas_005s.jpg

the coupe looks so much better than the convertible. I can't believe they never released it in the states.

It too has limited appeal- I had to get a ride from a coworker once. She drives a Miata that age; My 6'4" frame barely fit into it at all. THe 20 minute ride left my neck sore for hours. She was comfortable, and 5'4". If it wasn't for the little details I'd go after the coupe... That first red pic was the one that really caught my attention a few years back.
I wonder if the coupe would have carried the same "driver must be gay" connotations as the convertible does...


That makes it the other trade off- taller people are out there now. While I can fit comfortably in an Impreza, most sporty cars under $30k (or in general) are too small for me. Even a Civic is a squeeze. How do you make a niche car that fulfills all of your expectations, looks decent and still is wide enough to be a reasonably profitable niche?

Although I've never had the option, I'd like to try out an AE86 or a 510. Just to see how I fit. I managed to squeeze into a friend's vintage Mini Cooper before...

The Miata has sold close to a million copies. So while it is a niche vehicle, it has great sales

It weighed more because it was a coupe built off of a purpose-built convertible chassis. Mostly, that means that all of the extra bracing to prevent flex in an open box(convertible) can't be removed, and adds weight, but lends itself to a more rigid design in a closed box(coupe).

As opposed to the 50s Mercedes-Benz 300SL, which is the other historical exception. THe Mercedes was a race car first, street car second. When they cleaned it up for street use, it bacame heavy. THe convertible lost a lot of that weight when it lost the trademark "Gullwing" doors. There are quirks that come with making a coupe out of a convertible. Look at the Porsche Boxster and Cayman. Same chassis, different vehicles. From what I've seen, the Cayman seems to be more of a driver's car than the "everybody" car that the Boxster has become.

There's no doubt as there have been pictures of a RWD car being test at the Nurburgring. But the question is, is it an AE86 successor?

now that you mentioned it, i remember that, old pics tho. What seemed to be a two door coupe (size like a corolla) with a hoodscoop (could be fake since it was heavy camo'd)

When the first spy pics came up (a year or two ago), everyone thought toyota is bringin a civic SI competitor.. i havnt heard much bout it anymore

The new Miata is FAR roomier. I am waiting for the Solstice in shooting brake guise myself.

I am waiting for the Solstice in shooting brake guise myself.

Is that something that is even rumored at this point?

DUDE! scan it in.

bumping this

dang the 86 is dope, i wish they will bring it back

It would be interesting to see another little RWD sport hatch to come out, but it just doesn't match the mass market these days. There are far more people concerned with gas mileage and ammeninities than there are people who want a car to drift.

It would be cool, and it might give toyota a much 'cooler' image than it has now, but I'm sure any car like this will be under the scion moniker, and anything too exciting is out of the question. But then again, the WRX sold like hotcakes here, and it had no real rivals.

the 2002 version
http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/rscoupeetype_g21.jpg
http://www.clubmiatamonteregie.ca/03tas_005s.jpg

Thats pretty sick...looks like an older Jag

there is a rumor in the R&T mag bout a new rwd toyota sports car based on the new IS platform its a convertible

there is a rumor in the R&T mag bout a new rwd toyota sports car based on the new IS platform its a convertible

please not another fvcking convertible...

I think they should bring back the cressida as well. and the is300. and the supras. and the celica awd.

Im a proud owner of an ae86, and i say no. Don't bring it back. the coolest part of owning an ae86 is not seeing one at all. Except your buddies.

Technology is going to kill it aswell as toyotas outlook on sportscars. Look at what they though of doing with the supra. ewwwww....i would hope they dont.

either way, im selling mine cause i have a new love. my rex.

http://car.biglobe.ne.jp/bestcar/img/toyota_fr.jpg

is that the new supra? if it is it looks nice

is that the new supra? if it is it looks nice

http://car.biglobe.ne.jp/bestcar/

don't know how valid that site is, but it says "86" in the title and also says FR

anyone know anything about this car? looks kinda like a celica...

http://car.biglobe.ne.jp/bestcar/scoop/img/scoop0326_02.jpg

anyone know anything about this car? looks kinda like a celica...

http://car.biglobe.ne.jp/bestcar/scoop/img/scoop0326_02.jpg

that looks great, imo a rwd celica will fill this gap, celica's were pretty light.. atleast the last gen

if they do anything to the celica they need to bring back an awd version.....mmmmmm.....drool.

There is (or at least was) a Miata coupe.

Acc'd to my info. it was never mass produced. Though, it was shown as a concept at SEMA LV in 2005.

Instead, they moved to the convertible hard top now available on the 07's.

There were quite a few JDM only mazda Coupes made in 2002-2004. Not many compared to many cars, but I believe it was over 2K.

http://car.biglobe.ne.jp/bestcar/

don't know how valid that site is, but it says "86" in the title and also says FR

translated

http://car.biglobe.ne.jp/bestcar/img/toyota_fr.jpg

"Compact FR of the last time and NISSAN, the movement which is directed to the marketing conversion of [aji] was introduced, but how this time Toyota also the succession car of AE86 of large popularity development directive of the new model FR which it should call is with procured the shocking scoop information which is said. As for being surprised at the price, you say that it is the compact FR for enrollment which, can be bought at 1,800,000 Yen like Corolla. The not being entwined which is information from influential interests you are not wrong, but, the kind of car where it becomes pleasant in addition again, to drive, is born. You say that revolution to the car of the young generation probably will be assured with FR for enrollment, but you aim, perhaps the Toyota responsibility where it is considered for certain that it becomes the automaker of worldwide number 1. There are also times when in one of the cause the car leaving being advanced after all the similar car is too multi. Unless by the pleasant car where there is an unexpected characteristic, the young generation is designated as the 虜 future of the automaker does not become bright. Now as for the sport car being cheap, 2,500,000 Yen or more. The sport car [tsu] [te] of 1,800,000 Yen in such a time, at also just price is attractive.

S2000 last specificationsAnd, it cannot overlook either the scoop of the final specification of S2000. S2000CR which some days ago is released with the New York show. But the semi racing specification which had the radical wing, the hint of last S2000 is hidden in this model. Perhaps when it does, this year all the way, being long, it approaches to the last model of S2000 that it is made to only the next year middle. As for details please view the best car May 26th number of April 26th sale by all means.

Again, you can enjoy with the running alone plan which to the other magazine is not."

translated

http://car.biglobe.ne.jp/bestcar/img/toyota_fr.jpg

"Compact FR of the last time and NISSAN, the movement which is directed to the marketing conversion of [aji] was introduced, but how this time Toyota also the succession car of AE86 of large popularity development directive of the new model FR which it should call is with procured the shocking scoop information which is said. As for being surprised at the price, you say that it is the compact FR for enrollment which, can be bought at 1,800,000 Yen like Corolla. The not being entwined which is information from influential interests you are not wrong, but, the kind of car where it becomes pleasant in addition again, to drive, is born. You say that revolution to the car of the young generation probably will be assured with FR for enrollment, but you aim, perhaps the Toyota responsibility where it is considered for certain that it becomes the automaker of worldwide number 1. There are also times when in one of the cause the car leaving being advanced after all the similar car is too multi. Unless by the pleasant car where there is an unexpected characteristic, the young generation is designated as the ? future of the automaker does not become bright. Now as for the sport car being cheap, 2,500,000 Yen or more. The sport car [tsu] [te] of 1,800,000 Yen in such a time, at also just price is attractive.

S2000 last specificationsAnd, it cannot overlook either the scoop of the final specification of S2000. S2000CR which some days ago is released with the New York show. But the semi racing specification which had the radical wing, the hint of last S2000 is hidden in this model. Perhaps when it does, this year all the way, being long, it approaches to the last model of S2000 that it is made to only the next year middle. As for details please view the best car May 26th number of April 26th sale by all means.

Again, you can enjoy with the running alone plan which to the other magazine is not."

ahhhh interesting... so Nissan is making the AE86? ;) jk

it's still hard to understand but I think they're basically saying they got info from someone tied to the company that says this car will rear wheel drive and cheap.... around $15k usd.

omg that car is orgasmic. i need one

A friend of mine just sent me this:


http://www.7tune.com/?p=63 <---Pictures!

A 2+2 front engine, rear wheel drive sports car is planned to be the sprititual successor to the AE86 Toyota Sprinter Trueno/Corolla Levin, unbelievably at a price cheaper than the discontinued Toyota MR-S…

Toyota enthusiasts should be happy with the latest news from the Japanese magazine ‘Best Car’, with news that Toyota is bringing back the soul of the now famous AE86 Trueno/Levin twins in an all new compact 2+2 sports coupe. It’s no suprise that the rumoured pricing target of 1,500,000 yen is almost too cheap to believe, but this is in fact what Toyota are aiming for. The idea behind the project is to create ‘a car that appeals to young people’ with a price that they would be able to afford (the ramifications of this we’ll discuss later). This same idea harks back to the early 1980’s when the original AE85 series Corollas were introduced, where relatively cheap and reliable cars were sold with just enough interior niceties to keep buyers happy, and the price to a minimum. There are no Toyotas in the RWD compact sports category since the MR-S was discontinued in April this year, and the 2+2 configuration should give the new compact sprts car a wider appeal than the strictly 2 seater MR-S.

The target selling price of 1,500,000 yen does seem almost too good to be true, and the basic model may actually increase to around 1,800,000 - 2,000,000 yen by the time it’s released, which is still reasonable if the car’s specifications are adequate enough. But this is where some people might start worrying…

It’s been hinted that the ‘New AE86′ will be powered by a 1500cc 2NZ-FE four cylinder engine producing 120ps/6000rpm and 14.8kgm/3800rpm coupled to a traditional 5 speed manual transmission. This may seem like a half hearted effort by Toyota, but the total weight of the car is expected to be around 1000kg which would be quite close, even too close, to the original AE86’s specification. A simple theme will give the car much of the soul of the last RWD Trueno/Levin and should keep costs down below the 2,000,000 yen mark. The artist’s rendition shown here includes black plastic bumpers much like the AE86 models had, with clean lines and minimal overhangs which, if it’s close to the mark, would almost guarantee a sales success.

A friend of mine just sent me this:

http://www.7tune.com/?p=63
Well, hot dang!

I'll take 2.

Very Nice!

1,000 kg is about 2,200 lbs. I just wonder if this is really produced the chance of it being sold in the u.s. along with our massive suvs and trucks. I for one would love to see it here.

send it over here and sign me up...

In a heart beat. No question. DO IT, TOYOTA. As an aside, I bet it would come in under the Scion moniker...

Knowing Toyota, they'll probably stuff it with lots of traction control and only offer an auto.

120 hp? This is not going to cut it. Yes, the car is an AE86 successor, but only the Initial D, drifters and a few auto enthusiasts will recognize the significance of this car. The rest of the market will scoff at it. The proof is in the Toyota MR-S. The car weighed around 2100 lbs with a 140 bhp powerplant, but it died off.

i like it

120 hp? This is not going to cut it. Yes, the car is an AE86 successor, but only the Initial D, drifters and a few auto enthusiasts will recognize the significance of this car. The rest of the market will scoff at it. The proof is in the Toyota MR-S. The car weighed around 2100 lbs with a 140 bhp powerplant, but it died off.

It wasn't the HP that killed that car. It was the impractical trunk, little interior space, kind of pricey, and over all less fun to drive to many than it's arch nemisis, the Miata.

I'd hit it.

Nice car, but it looks like one of their styling exercises rather than an actual car slated for production. See:

http://www.diseno-art.com/images/Toyota_Volta_front.jpg

If they actually did decide to make it there is a good possibility that I would buy one especially if it does come in at the target price. I just can't see Toyota seriously developing a brand new RWD platform for a 12k car though.

120 hp? This is not going to cut it. Yes, the car is an AE86 successor, but only the Initial D, drifters and a few auto enthusiasts will recognize the significance of this car. The rest of the market will scoff at it. The proof is in the Toyota MR-S. The car weighed around 2100 lbs with a 140 bhp powerplant, but it died off.

I think it would sell very well if it comes in as priced. No one makes a good looking lightweight car anymore.

RWD and lighness would be perfect for club racing, auto-x, etc... No one is making cars as light and nimble as the civics used to be. If the suspension components and tunability are up to par, it would be a massive hit in the autosport segment.

However, I really hope they put decent width wheels on it on par to 16 x 7s or 15 x 7s. Or, in the very least allow for wide upgraded tires in the fenders and a double wishbone suspension. ;)

--kC

It wasn't the HP that killed that car. It was the impractical trunk, little interior space, kind of pricey, and over all less fun to drive to many than it's arch nemisis, the Miata.

That is all true, but the lack of power was a big factor in it too. That's part of why 3g MR2 forums are often half devoted to engine swaps. Lord only knows why they didn't ever put the GT-S 2ZZ in that car, even if only for a limited edition model or something.

Even at 2100 pounds, 120hp would not be particularly quick. I'd love to see this car in the US but not without at *least* 160hp. Ideally with an optional 190-200hp engine.

Even at 2100 pounds, 120hp would not be particularly quick.

It doesn't have to be fast off the line to be 'quick'. Light weight in combination with good handling makes for a great driving experience.

Speaking entirely with auto-x experience... the EF and EG Civic Si Hatches were around 2300-2400 lbs... and made 110 and 125 hp respectively. They are very quick around the auto-x with a few bolt-ons in STS... essentially they're the ones to beat maybe making around 130-140 hp fully maxed out.

If Toyota just doesn't mess up the suspension on the cars as they have in the past with the Celicas, and put in the good bits (double wishbone) instead of MacPhersons, this car CAN be a very, very good cone dodger.

I can see this car possibly making a run in STS... and I'd rock it just for that.

It doesn't have to be fast off the line to be 'quick'. Light weight in combination with good handling makes for a great driving experience.

If Toyota just doesn't mess up the suspension on the cars as they have in the past with the Celicas, and put in the good bits (double wishbone) instead of MacPhersons, this car CAN be a very, very good cone dodger.

I can see this car possibly making a run in STS... and I'd rock it just for that.

My favorite cars in the world are all lightweight, I'm no stranger to that.

Still, 99% of car buyers do not autocross. The target market for this kind of car wants a little more than 120hp. With 150-160hp on tap, this would be an outstanding little car. With around 180-200hp it would be a screamer.

And it's really not too much to ask. Most of the 4-cyls being sold today are in that 150-170hp range, granted a 200hp motor is a little harder to make. The clincher is that we already know Toyota is building a 200hp 4-cyl, the 3ZR-FAE for the new Corolla. Perhaps the Corolla GT-S will return.

My favorite cars in the world are all lightweight, I'm no stranger to that.

Still, 99% of car buyers do not autocross. The target market for this kind of car wants a little more than 120hp. With 150-160hp on tap, this would be an outstanding little car. With around 180-200hp it would be a screamer.

And it's really not too much to ask. Most of the 4-cyls being sold today are in that 150-170hp range, granted a 200hp motor is a little harder to make. The clincher is that we already know Toyota is building a 200hp 4-cyl, the 3ZR-FAE for the new Corolla. Perhaps the Corolla GT-S will return.

Yup, this is what I'm talking about. Most of the car market do not buy cars for autocross, road racing or motorsports in general. The number of car owners I see at car meets don't even track their cars. Plus, you have to think about it from a general buyer's point of view, "for the price, am I getting a decent amount of 'car'". So in this case, "car" would be practicality, gas mileage, power and etc. The buyer isn't going to care how light a car is or whether it has a double wishbone suspension versus torsion bar. Only us car nuts are going to appreciate sports car touches like those.

Most of the problem with the MR-S is that it made the miata look butch. If they can make it look decent, and give it good storage space and a good amount of features, then it will work. Even just the option of having the features such as bluetooth and a sunroof would be enough.

And the engine? Just give it the 2.4 from the Tc and Camry and most buyers will be happy. Make it a little more zingy and give it a good suspension with at least the option of a limited slip and it will be on the shopping list of a number of people I know.

I would think the 2.4 would be too heavy for something like that, but the one Levin (Or Trueno, I can't remember) in D1 with the SR20 swap seems to be doing okay. I would honestly want the 1.8 tuned to about 150 hp, double wishbones, a fairly spartan interior, and if they do end up sticking this under Scion, NORMAL GAUGE PLACEMENT. None of that center mount crap. They could even style it similarly to the Tc, and I'd be fairly happy. Oh, and heavier side bolstering on the seat bottoms and backs.

If they really wanted to bring back the spirit of the hachiroku, they should give us a solid rear axle with barely any camber adjustability. lol

Yeah what on earth is toyota doing, they used to have such exciting cars.

The AE86 Corolla back then, now we have a 3500lb pig Corolla now.
The Celica turbocharged AWD GT4 back then, the Celica chick car now.
The rare edgy MR2 turbo back then, the MR-S, slower than balls, chick car now.
The Supra turbo back then, with nothing to compare now.
Toyota figured out that women buy cars too, and they don't tend to care about whether they're exciting or not. Car buying seems to be the single occasion in a woman's life where she uses logic (cheap, practical, safe, decent looking) as opposed to emotion (fast, exciting, fun, edgy looking).

Toyota figured out that women buy cars too, and they don't tend to care about whether they're exciting or not. Car buying seems to be the single occasion in a woman's life where she uses logic (cheap, practical, safe, decent looking) as opposed to emotion (fast, exciting, fun, edgy looking).

Pretty much all manufacturers have known for years that women tend to buy more new cars than men.

A friend of mine just sent me this:

That looks unfortunate.

Pretty much all manufacturers have known for years that women tend to buy more new cars than men.
And yet few have courted women buyers by listening to what they want. Honda and Toyota are seriously raking in the dough with the CR-V and the RAV4.

How about the Yamaha Beams motor used in the Altezza?

Update! Looks like Toyota is going to come through...maybe...

http://www.7tune.com/?p=75

One of the car mags in Japan stated that Toyota is asking Subaru to use a boxer engine in this rumored FR lightweight car.

Apparently a FR concept was in the works ~3 yrs ago, as stated by a Toyota insider, but that plan got scrapped. So unless the idea was revived, its all probably just rumors.

DOOOOO IT, Toyota.

Imagine an updated 2JZZ VVT-i with direct injection... ~2200 lbs/190 hp seems reasonable. The Celica GT-S churned out 180 horses without DI. Coupled with a spartan interior (who needs automatic windows?) and independent double wishbones... mmmmm...yum... Exige look out. :banana:

kinda like an FR Tc

DOOOOO IT, Toyota.

Imagine an updated 2JZZ VVT-i with direct injection... ~2200 lbs/190 hp seems reasonable. The Celica GT-S churned out 180 horses without DI. Coupled with a spartan interior (who needs automatic windows?) and independent double wishbones... mmmmm...yum... Exige look out. :banana:


Are you nuts? Direct Injection would ruin the car. How many Engine Management Systems work with Direct Injection? None! So the car would come out and you'd have intake and exhaust, and that would be it. And the 2JZ would be way too heavy and would unbalance the car. It needs a turbo 4 cylinder.

^^^ Whoops. I meant 2ZZ-GE...my bad. Yeah, the Supra's engine would definitely be too heavy...lol... I was talking about the Celica GT-S's VVT-i 1.8 inline 4, updated with DI - which would improve both power AND mileage. Fewer mods needed to go fast and gain efficiency. C'mon - wouldn't that be sick?

P.S. Yeah, a turbo would be excellent, but I thought that might be getting a bit greedy on top of direct injection and variable valve timing and lift control.

http://www.7tune.com/newtune/justin/newae86/ae86_1.jpg
http://www.speedsportlife.com/photopost/data/689/thumbs/2006_Civic_Si_01.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/01/rumoured-new-ae86-more-details/

"What has been unknown until this time is where Toyota would source a cheap RWD drivetrain, but Best Car has learned that it will come from new partner Fuji Heavy Industries - better known to you and me as Subaru"!!

So an R160 and a heavily modified 5MT? Do they really need to go to Subaru for that?

for the ppl that dont autocross, they wouldnt care abt the RWD either. what ur describing would be the already successful Scion TC/Celica. Toyota developed this lightweight RWD car is obviously targeting at the group that actually cares abt handling. if u dont understand how much fun a lightweight underpower RWD car can give u in the twisties, u wouldnt understand this car.

My favorite cars in the world are all lightweight, I'm no stranger to that.

Still, 99% of car buyers do not autocross. The target market for this kind of car wants a little more than 120hp. With 150-160hp on tap, this would be an outstanding little car. With around 180-200hp it would be a screamer.

And it's really not too much to ask. Most of the 4-cyls being sold today are in that 150-170hp range, granted a 200hp motor is a little harder to make. The clincher is that we already know Toyota is building a 200hp 4-cyl, the 3ZR-FAE for the new Corolla. Perhaps the Corolla GT-S will return.

bump for the blind

what is the benefit of making a cheap RWD?
obviously they are not targeting these car to the enthusiast but the masses.
why would they put RWD when they can make it FWD and CHEAPER or at least reach their target price easier and add more features.
don't get me wrong I LOVE RWD but I don't see it happening.

what is the benefit of making a cheap RWD?
obviously they are not targeting these car to the enthusiast but the masses.
why would they put RWD when they can make it FWD and CHEAPER or at least reach their target price easier and add more features.
don't get me wrong I LOVE RWD but I don't see it happening.
uhm, because they are targeting enthusiasts:unamused:, they don't have an affordable sports car anywhere in thier lineup

They dont have any sportscars in their lineup.

They dont have any sportscars in their lineup.

yeah i suppose the TC doesnt really count, but it looks sporty:lol:, i was allowing it

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/trev2/160159.jpg

^^^ Translate, please?

uhm, because they are targeting enthusiasts:unamused:, they don't have an affordable sports car anywhere in thier lineup

no one! targets enthusiasts! because we are the minority.
yes they do need a sports car but something with 150hp won't do anything in the US specially being a hatchaback.
ignorant people here are only about hp and how many cylinders in your car.

I really hope toyota keeps it as planned although I need 30 more hp! :devil:
bump it up to 180hp like the celica and I'll be very happy!

Miata's sold like hot cakes with under 150hp....
I think it'll do well, and if its a flyweight 150hp will be plenty.

If it is under $20K it will sell well, even with the lack of power. I would even speculate 60K a year. Not Camry numbers, but enough for a profitable car and to bring many of the Honda Civic Si buyers and the like into the toyota fold.

no one! targets enthusiasts! because we are the minority.
yes they do need a sports car but something with 150hp won't do anything in the US specially being a hatchaback.
ignorant people here are only about hp and how many cylinders in your car.

I really hope toyota keeps it as planned although I need 30 more hp! :devil:
bump it up to 180hp like the celica and I'll be very happy!

not neccessary target at enthusiast but for ppl that enjoys the handling of a rwd. the price is low enough so that the regular crowd could afford them unlike the mrs. keep in mind that toyota is trying to make a car that resembles the ae86, so rwd, lightweight is the key. high hp isnt neccessary.