Just wondering, because I've seen aftermarket short shifters (like B&M) break after repeated slamming of gears.

Remember, I'm coming from a Honda world where the quality of aftermarket parts is questionable.

Quality of Honda parts are only questionable because they are made in such quantity that quality-checking is kept to a minimum.

A Kartboy shifter will not break - it will bend far before it breaks. I have hit, shoved, slammed, and put my weight into mine already without any ill-effects.

All you'd have to do is take one out of the shipping box to realize that they are pretty tough. The weld points are solid as a rock, and the shifter is pretty heavy. Best $125 I've spent in a while. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

I think the other stuff it's connected to would brake first, the shifter is pretty hefty.

I'll give a prize to whoever can break a Kartboy.

dems are beefy shifters.

We have a shifter in development, right now pricing is going to be comparable to the kartboy unit, but it's not finalized.

Here's a pic:

<IMG SRC="http://www.rev-lab.com/images/parts/rs_wrx_shifter.gif" border=0>

When our site goes fully live, (in a couple of weeks) we will be taking orders.

If anyone is interested, post, that way we can gauge interest a wee bit and hopefully make as many as necessary.

Cheers!

James

HOLY S$!T that looks cool! I'm interested!

I want to be one of the product testers for this shifter please send me one!

No way! Me first! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

-gpxl.
HopUps WRX Fanatics
www.hopups.com (http://www.hopups.com)

Our shifter does not have any welds whatsoever. The center piece is CNC machined aluminun. The bottom and top sections plug into the joint and are riveted in place.

It's pretty much indestructible, if you break this, you must've pulled all of your linkage out through the top of the shift tunnel!

Send me one! I'll test it for ya free!!

sweet looking shifter. i'd be interested if in the same price range as the kartboy ~125-150 dollars.
pj

PJ, it will be, no worries. As we are a very new company, we cannot afford to be overpriced!

Also, if anyone has happened to visit the web site, you'll notice that we are also going to do custom vinyl graphics. I'm just building a library of preselected artwork (popular decals, jap tuner decals like mines, apex'i, etc.). and we will also be doing custom pieces, designed by me ofcourse http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif.

James

JaiMak you got mail!

you shouldnt be slamming gears in the subaru anyways dood http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/cool.gif http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif

tranny and differential goes OWWWIIEEE!!!!
http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

just funnin'

What about fatigue with the aluminum? It has VERY low fatigue properties... and the rivet holes may be a target for cracking after extended use.

Also, remember that putting steel into contact with aluminum is a no-no. This will cause a galvanic reaction. Basically speaking, you will create a battery (actually, a cell). Corrosion will be accellerated on both sides (aluminum and steel).

--Roy (another mechanical engineer)

double post. My first one, I think...

[This message has been edited by LUME (edited May 31, 2001).]

Why exaclty is Titanium used? I mean obviously its tough, and rigid as hell, but the cost to tool it and machine it must be extreme!

Boeing Mechanical Engineer, so I am forced to be cheap as hell, and squeeze coal until it becomes a diamond!

SCRAPPYDO
stephen

Wow, the shifter sure looks unique. I already got Kartboy shifter though, and besides I spent too much time putting the shifter back to the socket; kinda hate to do it again.

Hmmm, when is it available again? I have a friend who may be interested in it though. Thanks!

-Alan

I had put my Kartboy shifter through strains you wouldn't imagine trying to get that thing in... TRUST me it is one damn strong part!

Jaimak I would suggest an all steel or all titanium (hmmm lightweight and strong!) shifter, as told above there "may" be some weak points to the materials etc...
it does look very nice thoughhttp://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

Phew! you had me scared for a minute.

all welds are done by me using my TIG welder. i have no doubts on teh quality of them .
the price for my COMBO is 125.00 thats WITH bushings not just a shifter.
that other one looks cool but you can't see it once its installed
not sure of the choice of materials tho. the dissimilar metal thing scares me, but it looks damn cool.
tom@kartboy.com

[This message has been edited by kartboy (edited May 31, 2001).]

I was waiting for you to respond Tom! I'm probably gonna get one (Kartboy) anyway. I just wanted to know how tough they were!

I'll be ordering one soon!
Unless I can get a free Rev-Lab shifter for testing purposes, hint-hint!

It looks sweet. Though I might reconsider your use of aluminum. I dont think its an appropriate material for the shifter. Its fairly soft, and not overly rigid. Im not sure how long it will last...

I love my Kartboy shifter

Wait! So do I need to worry about my engine turning into a battery, or falling apart?
I mean, with many of todays engines having aluminum blocks, with steel nuts and bolts holding them together, wouldn't we have a problem?

Anyway, I know the guy that makes the OEM shifter in the picture, and it's solid, nothing but the highest quality. He's got a Scooby, and he started to design and build parts for his car as a hobby. He used titanium for the ball joint because he felt badly about trying to charge a fortune for cheap materials that basically cost like $20. He deliberately left the center aluminum pivot joint with a rough machined finish because it looks cool, for that jewelled look.

The steel is press fit into the aluminum and secured with a set screw.

kartboy - is that $125 shipped?

uh well unless you plan on leaving the shifter "nekid" w/o the boot, you won't be seeing it anyways.... so what's the point? now if it shifted better because of the titanium ball.. well then, that might be a different story.. but only time can tell http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif

-chrisC <IMG SRC="http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/funny/bluegrab.gif" border=0>

Need Speed hit the nail on the head.

Basically, this shifter comes from us as an option for your car. The whole lot of us are basically committee members with the Subaru Club of Toronto, and many of you know me to be the webmaster. (www.toronto-subaru-club.com)

Anyhoo, one of our members came up with this design for the shifter. I'm a little bit ignorant as to exactly what kind of steel he used, but he's got his head screwed on straight, and happens to be a master machinist, so I'll leave it up to his expertise that he didn't put something together that will corrode and fall to pieces.

We thought it'd be nice to share this shifter with everybody, for a very competitive price, We already had Rev-Lab on the side and just like that figured we'd market the piece.

We also have lightened pulleys coming down the way, as well as some custom interior pieces such as titanium dash faces coming (barring any problems in production of course!)

We haven't quite worked out the logistics yet, but tentatively, the shifter will be going for around $125-$135, and the pulley will be in the same ballpark at $130-$145

Not too sure about aluminum for something you might be slamming around. Or the multiple connections for that matter. Rivits and set screws in a stressed environment? I'd hate to start slamming through the gears only to pull the top of my shift lever off. That would blow.

But I must agree with others... it looks cool. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Oops, forgot to mention, we're looking at supplying bushings with the kit, but if not it will be reflected in the price.

Cheers folks!

James www.rev-lab.com (http://www.rev-lab.com)

I'm not sure if the aluminum will be a problem, otherwise my ally shift knob should be corroding my shifter.

Either way, thanks for the suggestions people, I'll investigate this with our machinist, I am after all just a dumb graphic designer http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

I'm a mechanical engineer and the welds and craftsmanship is better on the kartboy than the OEM shifter..

It is true that your engine is held together with steel bolts. But in most cases one of two things exists to prevent galvanic corrosion:

A) some sort of threaded insert that is specially treated to PREVENT corrosion

B) Special coatings on the fasteners (or special lubricants) to prevent this type of reaction.

The reason for your shift knob not corroding is because it probably stays relatively dry. There is a good chance that the shifter will stay dry... buy just the same, I wouldn't chance it.

As for the stiffness/weight/strength of titanium, steel, and aluminum.....

They all have about the equivilent strength to weight ratio (well, ok titatanium blows all away), but there are advantages/disadvantages to all.

Steel is strong as hell, cheapest of the three, has infinate fatigue life if designed correctly, but will rust and is heaviest of all three.

Aluminum is the lightest of all three, has pathetic fatigue properties (any stressed part will eventually break... period). It has better corrosion properties than steel, but it still corrodes. Aluminum is great, as long as you are willing to replace parts.

Titatium is, well... expensive. Even though titanium is one of the most abundant elements to be found in the earths crust, it is rediculously hard to refine to a pure state. It has an amazing strength to weight ratio, great corrosion characteristics, but is heavier than aluminum. Who cares, because it is way stronger and way stiffer, and has respectable fatigue characteristics. You can design titanium parts to have near infinate fatigue lives.

Well, there is you materials lesson for today. Here is some data I gathered for your referance:

(material,alloy,ultimate strength,density,s/w ratio)
Al, 2024-T6, 60ksi, .1lb/in^3, 600
Fe, 4130-N, 120ksi, .28lb/in^3, 430
Ti, Beta III, 170ksi, .18lb/in^3, 900

All numbers are approximate. Check www.matweb.com (http://www.matweb.com) for more details!

--Roy

Whoa! LUME dropped some science for ya!!

Whats the Kartboy made of?

Yeah, nice Lume!

I've noticed two things about this club, half are IT geeks, the other half are engineers!

IT geek here!!

Well...isnt there a way we could test both products for a breaking point? I would think there would be a machine that could do so, specially if this issue is going to turn into a big stink. Though kartboys product needs to backing up as it has been proven (from 8 alone) to the maximum limits http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

Worse come to worse guys we could just call up good old Consumer Reports and request they do some testing/comparisons between the two. In fact, we should get a whole page devoted to aftermarket subaru products from Consumer Reports http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif Wouldnt that just be ... neatohttp://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif

suby

We certainly welcome some competition. Ours are 4130 CrMo Steel. I have hybrid prototypes similar to the one above, but frankly, with an invisible part such as this, there really is no need. Titanium is half the weight of steel and half the stiffness. Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel and 1/3 the stiffness. How much weight savings? From my CAD model, 360 grams for ours, already lighter than OEM. We could go all aluminum, or all titanium, or all berillium for that matter. You would pay more.

Our pricing is also set to allow dealers to make a reasonable margin. Dealers such as ISR, Teague's, W and L, and other resellers don't buy shifters for $100 from us, they buy them for considerably less, in order to make a profit. We could sell them directly for less, but we won't undercut our support system. We value our dealers as we do our customers and the numerous professional racers we support with custom product.

We would also like to thank all of our unsolicited supporters (and solicited supporters too). Look for our products on the racing machines of Paul Eklund (SCCA Pro Rally), Eric Kriemelmeyer (SCCA Pro Solo) and Gary Sheehan (USTCC).


Mark Deadrick BSME

Chief Engineer - All Wheel Engineering

mark@kartboy.com
www.kartboy.com (http://www.kartboy.com)

Yay Kartboy!

At todays exchange rate as reported by the Federal Reserve Bank of NY, (1.5329) the Kartboy would be like $191.6125 CA.

Haven't you heard? All real mechanical engineers want Subaru Imprezas or Audi Quattros... It's a simple equation:

4 wheels
0 powered = shopping cart
2 powered = business and/or aesthetic decision
4 powered = engineering decision

F=M*A, Q-W=dE, (-b +/- sqrt(b^2-4*a*c))/(2*a), X=X0+Vx*t+(1/2)*Ax*t^2, etc., etc.

--RD

Side note: A joke I once heard (keep in mind I have a BSME)....

Mechanical engineers learn that F=m*a
Electrical engineers learn that V=I*R
Civil engineers learn that you cant push on a rope! http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

&lt;i&gt;(I hope my CE friends aren't listening....)&lt;/i&gt;

Working on the civil engineering side of things, I will never understand why we get treated like dirt. Its not like we are playing in it or anything http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif

yeah, a shifter designed with looks in mind...I'm gonna have to pass. Plus Tom would thrash me w/in .005" of my life.

Civil engineers are better than industrial engineers, I don't even see why they get to be engineers. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif However, aerospace engineers own everybody. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif

Is there someone I can buy my Kartboy installed from? *cough* Mark *cough*

[This message has been edited by JC (edited June 01, 2001).]

I assume than price was in $US, What kind of price in Canadian, we need all the help we can.

I could certainly install one, but I don't have the stockpile here in soggy Michigan (will it ever stop raining). Tom is sending out some more products in the next week, so I'd be glad to oblige. I'll have to make it to one of the meets, but I've been too busy with the Focus race team.


mark@kartboy.com
www.kartboy.com (http://www.kartboy.com)

That's alright, I spent all my money. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/frown.gif I'll see what I can do though.