You can see the history in the past two changes that I've done. I have not added a single drop of anything other than Mobil 1 Synthetic into the engine oil fill spout in the past year that I've had the thing, meaning no snake oil or the like. The only thing that I KNOW was messed up was the air filter top wasn't quite on correctly...the tabs didn't get seated when I changed the filter out a few months ago, so a bit of unfiltered air was making its way into the intake. Other than that, I have no clue what this means. Help?

http://www.vehmic.com/upload/blackstone3.png

I just changed to 10w-30 with this last change, looking at going 10w-40 or another brand if this trend continues.

It would help if you listed your mods.

It would help if you listed your mods.
No mods to the engine whatsoever. 70k miles.

It looks like the air filter lid not being in the tabs didn't hurt anything...if anything silicon went down a little.

How does the engine run, and has it ever knocked? Driving with low oil levels can cause problems too, like a spun bearing in extreme cases. Maybe it's something in your fuel. Hopefully some of the resident tribologists will chime in here.

FYI, M1 10W-30 is actually thinner than what you had in there although it shouldn't cause the wear if that's what it is.

It's thinner? I wanted to go thicker for the summer months. I've looked into the German Castrol stuff. Perhaps I should research more.

The engine is smooth without any hiccups. No dings, knocks, pings, or anything of the sort. I try to let it sit for 30 seconds after startup before going anywhere. I try to check the level every 1k miles just to be sure and I've never been any lower than what I put in at an oil change.

As far as fuel, I haven't ran anything other than Marathon 93 or Shell 93 for roughly 10 months.

Some googling pointed towards bearing wear. Not cool. :(

Yeah, I forget the exact numbers but if you go to the M1 website the 5W-30 is thicker than the 10W-30 (cSt @ 100º C). My UOAs with both oils seem to support that because the 10W-30 sheared out of grade in a 6K mile interval while the 5W-30 did not.

Even the thin 10W-30 shouldn't cause any wear problems though. Have you tried posting at BITOG?...maybe you'll get some ideas over there.

Yeah, I forget the exact numbers but if you go to the M1 website the 5W-30 is thicker than the 10W-30 (cSt @ 100º C). My UOAs with both oils seem to support that because the 10W-30 sheared out of grade in a 6K mile interval while the 5W-30 did not.

Even the thin 10W-30 shouldn't cause any wear problems though. Have you tried posting at BITOG?...maybe you'll get some ideas over there.
Interesting.

I've registered but have to have my account approved before I can post. Thanks for the reference, I totally forgot about BITOG.

Hmm, so what could cause elevated iron and lead readings?

I think what happened was a "particle streak" and could have been from it going between a crank journal and a bearing or a between the crank and a main bearing. Your loose air filter may have played a role. The particle wont always show as silicon to easily id it as proof of the cause. Yes, I would try using an oil with little to low moly for the next change and do another uoa. If you have another high lead then I would consider getting rid of the car myself if it meant it could need a new engine soon.

Hmm, so what could cause elevated iron and lead readings?
This is why I'm here!

I think what happened was a "particle streak" and could have been from it going between a crank journal and a bearing or a between the crank and a main bearing. Your loose air filter may have played a role. The particle wont always show as silicon to easily id it as proof of the cause. Yes, I would try using an oil with little to low moly for the next change and do another uoa. If you have another high lead then I would consider getting rid of the car myself if it meant it could need a new engine soon.
So something came in through my gap in the stock airbox, made it's way down to the pan, got caught up in something near the bearings and scratched things to hell? Is that what you're saying? Just want to clarify.

What low moly oil would you recommend? Did I do myself a favor with the 10w-30 in that regard?

And if I have to get another SB or LB it's going to be 2.5L. I'm not really worried if I have to go that route.

All M1 has a bit of moly, so you're good there. You might want to consider dropping the oil change interval to 3000-4000 mi until you figure this out.

Another intersting UOA is this one: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1233596

It has elevated copper, but no lead/tin. Yours has high lead, but no copper/tin. Normally you associate all 3 with bearings, but not necessarily all 3 as the compound can change depending on the bearing. Unless Subaru changed the bearing material from 02 to 05!

I know, I saw that.

My thread on BITOG is pointing me towards the Dyson analysis. $60 for that is a bit outrageous. I'm probably just going to stick with the $30 Blackstone and switch to German Castrol 0w-30 if I can find it.

With any luck, it's only particle streak and not your bearings going bad. I don't know much about the trend with a particle streak, but wouldn't it drop on the next interval? Looks like yours is gradually increasing.

GC has low moly. Use that as a minimum or go even thicker. A Dyson Analysis is cheaper than a new engine! :)

-Dennis

According to Blackstone's FAQ, a particle streak should be a short term issue. But the lead on this car jumped at both the 65,186 and the 70,170 mile changes.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq_gas.html

Hey, I was right! :)
A particle streak will cause a temporary increase in lead, and then once the dirt leaves the system, lead drops back down.
Your engine is begging for something thickAR.

-Dennis

does anyone have the % composites of the connecting rod and main bearings for FHI? that would be some handy information :D

With any luck, it's only particle streak and not your bearings going bad. I don't know much about the trend with a particle streak, but wouldn't it drop on the next interval? Looks like yours is gradually increasing.

GC has low moly. Use that as a minimum or go even thicker. A Dyson Analysis is cheaper than a new engine! :)

-Dennis
It's still twice the cost of the Blackstone UOA!

The guys on BITOG recommended a different filter. I only know of the Purolator PL14460 (what I'm running) and the OEM unit. I won't even mention the Fram because simply, I'm not a retard. I can't seem to find the thread that lists out compatible filters. A little help on that would be excellent.

My plan is to obtain GC and a different filter, but still send in a UOA on this 10w-30 at 3k miles.

Twice the cost is still only an extra $30. You already know something is not right. It seems like a small expense to help identify the problem without waiting another OCI to see if a new filter works.

It's still twice the cost of the Blackstone UOA!

The guys on BITOG recommended a different filter. I only know of the Purolator PL14460 (what I'm running) and the OEM unit. I won't even mention the Fram because simply, I'm not a retard. I can't seem to find the thread that lists out compatible filters. A little help on that would be excellent.

My plan is to obtain GC and a different filter, but still send in a UOA on this 10w-30 at 3k miles.


at a 3000 OCI i honestly wouldn't worry about the brand of filter. just go to local parts store and get whatever. i think i've used just about every oil filter made between by impreza and legacy over the last 7 years, yes including fram when in a pinch. i only ever run my filter to 4K, but my oil to 8k. right now i'm using bosch (non premium) because i got a deal on 12 of them on the internet.

I doubt it's the filter, IMO, because Subaru's have shown good results with that Purolator. They've also shown good results with the OEM Toyo Roki. But as eater said, 3,000 wouldn't make a difference in the filter anyway.

You should top it off (if there's room) with some 20W50. hondaeater, was it you that had a great UOA by adding a quart of M1 20W50 to 10W30? It created a nice mid-range 40 weight.

-Dennis

na wasn't me. but as soon as it warms up a bit more i plan on running 1qt 20-50 to my typical 10-40 change (RP, which is thin like m1).

Here it is (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1186324&referrerid=767)

-Dennis

Yeah, I have to agree that the filter shouldn't be the problem. They don't get any better than the Pure Ones IMO, especially factoring in their low cost. Heck, I've been using the regular L14460s since my car's first oil change and they work great.

Good info guys, thanks for the replies.

I'll run a 3k OCI and post back in this thread.

But for the next change I'm going to go ahead and see about picking up some GC. I'll stick with the Purolator filter.

Moly has shown spikes in lead on a few engines with no other plausible explanation from uoa's. Because of blowby, from a chain of events, tiny particles could make there way into the crankcase and possibly get between an oiled bearing and crank journal and cause a lead spike. I bet you could get better wear numbers at a 3750 int using kendall or any conoco made api sm 10w30.