I've been somewhat putting off replacing my timing belt for a while now, I just didn't really get around to searching for everything I need to get it done right without any trouble... until recently.

04' WRX, 2.0L 81k miles, about 3/4 of them were pretty hard miles. 10LB Cusco Flywheel was installed at about 60k and i'm sure it contributed to increased stress on the timing belt.

With the help of a part list created by iNfek, i've narrowed pretty much everything that I should need down to a few special tools and knowhow.

I am planning to do the following:

Timing Belt, All new idlers, New Tensioner assembly, Water Pump, Oil Cooler Water Hoses, Front Cam Seals x4, Front Main Seal.

I'm a bit worried about the procedure for Cam Seals / Front Main Seal; particularly the removal of old seals and installation of new seals without damaging anything. I did great research on the cam seals, and was not able to find out much about the exact procedure. Only the fact that if done improperly, you'll cause damage and inevitably, an oil leak.

I checked in my CD version of the service manual (It really sucks BTW) and couldn't find it. Yes the camshaft sprockets need to be removed, but which tool is the correct tool to lock the sprockets? OR, anyone have a link to the Snap-On version that sells for $50?

SPX Kent-Moore lists two tools; the first one, J-42908 listed as "CAM SPROCKET HOLDER, 1999 Phase 2 Engines

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/2944/holder1mr6.png

Second one, J-45443, for the Phase 1 DOHC. No picture.

I assume the EJ205 is a Phase 2.

Also, how would you lock the camshafts with the sprockets removed? Hammering the seals in would definately disturb the camshafts, and it'll spring in whichever direction.
Lastly, I wasn't sure which special crank pulley wrench would work. There are two listings also;

499977000 "CRANK PULLEY WRENCH" Legacy, SVX, Impreza
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6277/wrench1ll8.png

499977300A "CRANK PULLEY WRENCH" - No Caption
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/723/untitledvm3.png

The service manual I have states that the Special Tool is 499977400 for the Non-STi. wtf?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Dan

Subscribe.

That top tool looks like it does this function:


Nope. That's not it. See post #25 in this thread. This is where I got the idea.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1128226

You could also try a couple big allen keys tied together.

Well, man... i recently have done this to my SOHC 99' 2.5 RS and i can tell you, there is NO easy way to get the seals out, your going to scar things around the rim of the area were the seals go, but as long as you don't put gouges in the area were the seals "seat" you'll be fine.

The cam holder you show isn't going to work for you as your GOING to have to remove the pullies anyway, your best bet is to mark the cams and the pullies, and be weary od which way the cams rotate when you remove the pullies, after the seals are done you can re-mount the pullies and rotate the cams back into proper alignemnt based on your markings and install the pully holder you've made.

As far as the crank pully, my mechanic friend explained to me, to get the socket on and a breaker bar braced either aginst the "frame" or the ground and "bump" the starter, for removial of that bolt. As far as install, i used locktite and got everything as tight as i could. you can also use the alt and A/C belts reinstalled to help hold the pull for re-install of the crank bolt.
A big strap wrench might help here to...

Hope that helps in some way...

Good luck

check this site:
http://subaru.spx.com/index.asp
"Doing Business With SPX KENT-MOORE
Special service tools are easy to purchase and are available to the general public by simply contacting SPX KENT-MOORE by phone, fax or mail."

& someone found this for me when I asked the same on rs25:

http://www.turbometrics.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=3625

Thank you for the replies.

Aaron: do you know if i'll have to worry about the driver's side (wait, or was it passenger side.. man my brain is dead) cams at all? I mean, they will both be resting on the base circle, not on the nose correct?
I did see your other thread about the timing belt install.

There are many timing belt threads, but not much concrete information. :)

I'm trying to piece everything together.. slowly.

Hopefully in a few weeks when I gather everything, I can take some better pictures to help future timing belt DIY'ers.

Honestly i have no idea man, sorry. I know it is a VERY danuting task, i felt the same way, followed the SAME path of gathering all the info i could and to be honest when the time came, it wasn't that bad... You just gotta be carefull and methodical. I had a table i could lay everything out on in order of removial and you could even take pictures durning the process, incase something "moves". The big thing i'd keep an eye on would be the cams moving and if they were to, they can only go 360degrees, so getting them back on mark would be as simple as spinning them back to the mark YOU make before you start.

You need to look at this http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.5Timing.pdf and this http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf
The second one is more for the SOHC, but there is good info there to...

Happy hunting..!

I recommend using a white paint pen or white out to mark everything.

A regular sharpie won't cut it, and you don't want to rub anything off during the 'operation'.

Bill in SD

P.S. pulling the radiator gives you extra space to work, (and use non-conventional tools, if necessary) is not that hard, and those hoses could be replaced at the same time.

Resently i had replaced the front main seal on my 98 rs dohc. I recommand taking out the radiator for the much needed extra room as previously mentioned. I can't stress enough how you need to mark up everything with some sort of pen that is not going to smudge or fade, because the cam WILL spin.
As far as the crank pully, my mechanic friend explained to me, to get the socket on and a breaker bar braced either aginst the "frame" or the ground and "bump" the starter, for removial of that bolt.

This is how I got my crank pully off.
Well man i wish you the best of luck with this, take it ez.

10LB Cusco Flywheel was installed at about 60k and i'm sure it contributed to increased stress on the timing belt.


who the hell told you that??? lol

5th gear + step on the brakes + friend w/ a breaker+cheater bar for removing the crank pulley bolt.


as far as marking everything, i wouldnt worry about it too much. the belt should have marks on it, as well as each cam pulley, and the crank pulley. as long as you follow the directions in the FSM to the T, you should be fine.


DONT remove the cam pulleys unless you REALLY want to spend another ~ $250. you are NOT supposed to reuse the plastic pulleys, and even @ wholesale, they're ~ $55/each (you need 3). plan on replacing the cam pulley bolts, because even though they're "supposed" to be torqued to ~ 75lb/ft, with time, they tighten themselves, a LOT. i ended up removing one of my cam pulleys with a 32oz. ball peen hammer, because that damned bolt stripped out (and i was using the proper 10mm hex-socket).

Gruppe-S sells a specialty tool for helping w/ cam pulleys (i own it, its ~ $50, works on WRXs, will only work on the exhaust side pulleys on STi's).

one trick that'll help, use the old timing belt + a pair of vice grips. (cause the pulley bolts are so tight that you WILL end up skipping a few teeth....i know i did). stretch the belt around 2 pulleys, then around the idlers, and around the crank sprocket. have someone hold the belt. now, you vice-grip the belt together @ the cam pulleys (so it cant actually rotate). this SHOULD jam it up enough to help remove those bolts.


(plan on buying new cam pulleys and cam pulley bolts at the least)



all that work for cam seals, and as far as you know, your stock cam seals are fine. (i suggest against it). front main seal? kind of a PITA, but easier than cam seals. worst case, you can use a slide hammer + a sheet metal screw to pull out the old seals.

DONT remove the cam pulleys unless you REALLY want to spend another ~ $250. you are NOT supposed to reuse the plastic pulleys, and even @ wholesale, they're ~ $55/each (you need 3). plan on replacing the cam pulley bolts, because even though they're "supposed" to be torqued to ~ 75lb/ft, with time, they tighten themselves, a LOT. i ended up removing one of my cam pulleys with a 32oz. ball peen hammer, because that damned bolt stripped out (and i was using the proper 10mm hex-socket).'


Ok, so your NOT supposed to reuse the cam pulleys...??? Holy crap... i never read that in any of my research....

^ !!!

Damn, didn't read about the pulleys anywhere.

Thanks for the information. I believe the actual timing belt/waterpump install is straightforward, i'm still trying to clear up the grey area in terms of seal installation/removal.

Thank You to everyone for the help.

http://www.endwrench.com/current/summer03/H-4.pdf

May help.

If not, go search in endwrench.com hopefully they can help you out.

^^ on a 99RS, you should be able to reuse the cam pulleys. they're both metal IIRC.

on WRX's, 3 out of 4 pulleys are a ceramic/plastic/something blend. if they're removed, they can NOT be reused. the only one reused is the LH intake cam pulley (the one that the cam sensor is on top of, it has to be metal in order for the cam position sensor (basically a proximity sensor) to pick it up).

I am slowly starting to prepare for the big .. project.

Man, i'm in debt.

13028AA200 Timing Belt
13073AA142 Idler Cp Belt (Idler #1)
13073AA142 Idler Cp Belt (Idler #2)
13073AA200 Idler Cp Belt (Idler #3)
13033AA042 Adjuster Ay Belt (Tensioner Assembly)
21111AA026 Water Pump
21114AA051 Gasket Water Pump
807611031 PT650297 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses)
807611031 PT650297 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses)
807611031 PT650297 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses)
807615182 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses)
807612011 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses)
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)

So far, I have a list of Subaru-specific special tools I would ideally need for the job from SPX-Kent Moore. I need to see if I can find alternatives for some of them, such as the cam holders mentioned previously in this thread.. but if I can't find the mentinoned ones, I have no way of knowing which "Universal" ones work. My car cannot be down for longer than the duration of the work being done. And there's no way i'm going to put everything back. :(

499207400 Camshaft Sprocket Wrench
(Specified in the service manual as "Except Intake LH")
18231AA010 Camshaft Sprocket Wrench
(Specified in service manual as "Intake LH")
499987500 Crankshaft Socket
499597200 Oil Seal Guide
499587600 Oil Seal Installer
J-42908 Cam Sprocket Holder
499977400 Crankshaft Pulley Wrench

There are two different types of camshaft sprocket locking tools. One type is for the left side (driver's side), J-42908, that lock the sprockets with jam nuts for tension. Particularly because the tensioner is on the same side, slight adjustment is needed. The other type is a solid metal piece with two large hex cutouts to lock the two sprockets.

I'm debating on if I should worry about the special cam seal guide and tool or just make do with a large socket..

Matco happens to make a universal cam / crank seal removal tool that should work; also, there are a few adjustable, universal cam sprocket tools that might work but I am unsure if they'd suffice.

I was going to try and change the front crank seal but I realized that it is integrated with the oil pump, and may add complication and expense.

At this point, besides being sick how much all of this costs, i'll just have to figure out a few more things and hopefully, i'll be set.

I'll update as I go along..

It's an 04, i would be to very worried about the hoses and buying EVERYTHING factory your getting raped....

I mean you might want the tensioner, and pullies and belt, seals and WP to be factory, the rest you could get aftermarket cheaper....

The tools, well that's your call, but a DIYer can McGyver his way past most of that, as i mantioned in earlier posts.... It's all up to you though...

GOOD LUCK

i'll critique, just because i just did ALL of this.


13028AA200 Timing Belt -- stick w/ stock unless you're running cams or something else that would put extra stress on the belt.

-- might not need to replace all the idlers... wont know until you remove the belt and check the idlers for wear. @ $55-60/ea, i would hold off on ordering them until you need em. ideally, plan a block of time (like, a week) if you really wanna do all of this
13073AA142 Idler Cp Belt (Idler #1)
13073AA142 Idler Cp Belt (Idler #2)
13073AA200 Idler Cp Belt (Idler #3)


13033AA042 Adjuster Ay Belt (Tensioner Assembly) -- definitely
21111AA026 Water Pump -- yes
21114AA051 Gasket Water Pump -- yes
807611031 PT650297 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses) probably not. if so, Samco or Forge, not OEM.
807611031 PT650297 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses) same as above
807611031 PT650297 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses) same as above
807615182 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses) dont bother. only ones that NEED replacing are the upper and lower usually.
807612011 Hose (Misc. Coolant Hoses) same as above

why are you replacing the cam seals? are they leaking? if not, it's quite a project to do them with the motor in the car as i recall.
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)
806732160 Oil Seal 32x55x8 (Front Cam Seal)



dont bother with subaru specialty tools. the only REALLY useful one i bought was the camshaft wrench from Cobb ($50+shipping, works on WRX's, and exhaust pulley's on STi's (wont work on AVCS pulleys IIRC)
499207400 Camshaft Sprocket Wrench -- NO
(Specified in the service manual as "Except Intake LH")
18231AA010 Camshaft Sprocket Wrench -- NO
(Specified in service manual as "Intake LH")
499987500 Crankshaft Socket -- NO. crankshaft socket = 22mm, preferably 6point and 1/2" drive. thats all ya need

as far as tools to install seals? a large assortment of sockets and a rubber mallet are your best friends. find a socket thats just a little bit smaller than the OD of the seal, and use the rubber mallet to hammer it in.
499597200 Oil Seal Guide
499587600 Oil Seal Installer
J-42908 Cam Sprocket Holder
499977400 Crankshaft Pulley Wrench -- dont bother. regular socket works.

There are two different types of camshaft sprocket locking tools. One type is for the left side (driver's side), J-42908, that lock the sprockets with jam nuts for tension. Particularly because the tensioner is on the same side, slight adjustment is needed. The other type is a solid metal piece with two large hex cutouts to lock the two sprockets.

I'm debating on if I should worry about the special cam seal guide and tool or just make do with a large socket..

^do this


Matco happens to make a universal cam / crank seal removal tool that should work; also, there are a few adjustable, universal cam sprocket tools that might work but I am unsure if they'd suffice.

I was going to try and change the front crank seal but I realized that it is integrated with the oil pump, and may add complication and expense.

if its not leaking, leave it alone!

With older engines, it's considered a good practice to remove and reseal the oil pump, and also check if the screws on the back cover are tight. When the pump is removed, the crank seal is easy to extract. Don't know if this is still important.
To drive new seals in, I used PVC plumbing fittings of appropriate size, as others have done before. You can even get end caps for them, so you can hammer at the center. New seals should be driven to the same depth as the old ones: the face should be flush with the bottom of the chamfer in the bore. To do so, it helps to sandwich an old seal between the new one and the driving tool. Then you can feel it when the old seal reaches the end of the chamfer.

caterpill,
I just pulled my engine & broke it down without any of the "Special Tools". Save your money & do what was mentioned with the breaker bar on the frame for the crank. I would say it would have been a lot easier with the cam ST.

as far as the cost for all the parts..... i was extremely set back at first too.
BUT there is a real simple way of getting the cost knocked down. I'll p.m. you so dealers don't get po'd :p

Subscribe. Gearing up for this one soon.

Finally got around to doing it last week Friday, it was pretty straightforward but I made a few mistakes and one expensive one.

The one special tool I bought from kentmoore didn't fit - wrong part, wrong engine. I nicked one of the camshaft shafts where the seal rides - and it will ride across the seal every revolution. And lastly I don't remember if the new waterpump came fitted with a small square rubber seal that seals the 1/4 - 1/8" gap between the waterpump and the right timing belt cover.

I'll try to post up some pictures soon. I'm currently cramming for finals so i'll have to wait.

so.. are the tools that hold the cam pulley's needed? I'm getting ready to do this myself as i'm at 103k. parts needed..
timing belt
tensioner
water pump??
pump gasket??
what tools will i need to buy? i'm thinking i have to but the ones for the cam gears.

Major parts needed would be the timing belt, idler bearings waterpump, waterpump gasket and thermostat + thermostat gasket.

It really depends on how you want to go about doing it.

There are some coolant hoses you may want to change and possibly the camshaft seals. Some of these things are not critical, they are just things that you'll have access to during the timing belt installation and you may not want to take everything off again to access something that may have been overlooked.

Personally, I bought the DOHC Cam Holder tool from Matco which didn't work on the camshaft sprocket that has a lip on the edge. Also, I had a friend help me hold one set of camshafts from moving while putting on the belt.

I wanted to tackle it myself but it is tough. The only real tool that helped was the Cobb Tuning Cam Sprocket holder tool ~$50.

I had a problem with some kind of design change on one of the idler pulley bearings; there is a thread floating around here with an individual who ordered a timing belt kit from ebay, and to use the idler pulley in the kit, he had to use a longer bolt. For myself, I had the exact opposite problem. My new idler pulley required me to chop the threads off of my existing bolt to get it to mount properly.

I think there may be some kind of design change between 02's and 04's.

Sorry, i've been trying to update this thread with pictures but I need to find them.

:(

Ok, here comes the pictures.. the LAZY bastard I am, I finally got around to uploading the 13 pictures I took.

OK, to start it off, in this thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1218848

The problem was one of updated idler pulley designs caused some problems. My problem was exactly the opposite; I had to cut my bolt because the new pulley was smaller. In the following pictures, you can see how the bolt extends further in the different part.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2079/95690693si8.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2853/73673584yg8.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9894/13634453me9.jpg

Here are pictures of the Subaru Special Tool P/N J-42908, which, apparently is for the legacy 3.0L H6 engine?

It's obvious why it wouldn't work. But ahhh I tried. SPX Kent-Moore was unable to find the right tool for me.

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8987/95153065hs2.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7421/15216356gg4.jpg

The OEM belt at 83,000 miles.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2503/17588702pj1.jpg
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/71/28837052hz7.jpg
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6208/68577085bz8.jpg

One cam seal replaced. You can see how the engine block does not line up, the cam seal sits crooked, and I gouged the camshaft surface where the seal rides.. A BIG NO NO. Whoops.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6808/28801319cm9.jpg

The COBB Cam Sprocket Holder Tool in action. The only metal sprocket is the driver's side intake cam which has the cam sensor. The last picture shows how fragile the plastic cam sprockets are and how the edges chip very easily.

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/2293/14ms5.jpg
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/4803/15ti6.jpg
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/7223/13ik1.jpg

The finished product. Yes, I know you're thinking why the f^ did you waste money on a Greddy belt? They were out of OEM belts. heh.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1592/10oh9.jpg
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1553/11qn1.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8333/12hg1.jpg

"The finished product. Yes, I know you're thinking why the f^ did you waste money on a Greddy belt? They were out of OEM belts. heh."

almost the same price but less stretch

Just to make sure, Cracker Red pointed out that in the last picture my exhaust cam is off a tooth. I believe my pictures were taken in a different sequence then they are listed, and the exhaust cam was off a tooth initially until I ran the engine for 2 seconds to let the belt settle. I think I may have also hand turned the crank 2 revolutions beforehand. I don't remember if I had the belt on correctly at that time either. I just remember it being a b*tch.. very hard to do as a 1 man job.

I didn't remember which pictures were what. :)

^^ on a 99RS, you should be able to reuse the cam pulleys. they're both metal IIRC.

on WRX's, 3 out of 4 pulleys are a ceramic/plastic/something blend. if they're removed, they can NOT be reused. the only one reused is the LH intake cam pulley (the one that the cam sensor is on top of, it has to be metal in order for the cam position sensor (basically a proximity sensor) to pick it up).

That is interesting. Last week I had some help from two guys from another forum with my TB install. We mistakenly thought that we had to remove the cam pulley to get to the water pump and broke it in the process. We had 2 WRXs that we were doing the TB on and since I had driven down to NJ from MA to get this done we ended up removing the cam pulley from the other car and putting it on mine. Then the other guy bought a new one later that week and finished his install.

Everything looked okay with his pulley, so I'm hoping that nothing goes wrong with it now.

I've been reading all these timing belt threads preparing to do mine at the end of the summer, along with the tensioner, water pump, and idlers.

So what's the consensus on the cam seals? Some threads recommend changing out the cam seals and front main seal, but it doesn't seem to be worth it if it will cost an additional $150 to replace the cam pulleys. Is it common for a cam seal to leak before 200,000 miles?

I've been reading all these timing belt threads preparing to do mine at the end of the summer, along with the tensioner, water pump, and idlers.

So what's the consensus on the cam seals? Some threads recommend changing out the cam seals and front main seal, but it doesn't seem to be worth it if it will cost an additional $150 to replace the cam pulleys. Is it common for a cam seal to leak before 200,000 miles?
I don't think you need to do the cam seals and front main seal. I also don't think you need to replace the tensioner. I was told by a reputable shop that the tensioner is an age item and not mileage, so on an 02 it should probably be done, but an 04 should not need to be done now.

Some actually replace the tensioner and idlers. They are all wear items. My car is an 02. Last year I replaced the tensioner and belt. Next time I do it I will probably replace all the idlers too.

Better to spend a little extra now and not have to go back in there with a grubling bearing or failed tensioner that would let the belt jump teeth.

if you dont damage the plastic cam pulleys on removal, then please explain to me why you need to replace them and where you got that information from...

if you dont damage the plastic cam pulleys on removal, then please explain to me why you need to replace them and where you got that information from...

That is what I am wondering. The whole pulley isn't plastic, the inside ring is metal so unless you damage the plastic part when taking it off there should be no reason to have to replace it.

there isnt, ive never done it before nor has anyone ive talked to or worked with. SOA techline and SNE says that unless they are damaged, there is no problem with them. im rebuilding an sti engine at work and i even double checked the service manual on that, and it says nothing about it. reuse the pulleys!

I'm getting ready to do the timing belt and associated bits on my sister's '02 WRX, probably this weekend. The 3 special/fragile pulleys look to be made of the same material as all 4 pulleys on my '97 2.5GT's DOHC engine. I'm coming up on 189k miles, and have swapped the pulleys from engine 1 to engine 2 to engine 3 in the last 6 months. No problems yet.

I am curious if anyone has any cam seal removal tips/tricks. On my own engine I did the front main seal by drilling a couple little holes and screwing 1/8" self-tapping screws in so I had something to pull the seal out with. The only time I've done the cam seals on my engine, it was out of the car, so it was pretty easy. The cam seals are quite a bit smaller than the front main seal, so I'm not sure I'd be comfortable trying to do the trick with the drill - not much margin for error.

Pat Olsen

i just use a little screw driver, like 1/8 inch wide and poke at it until you can get underneath. or you can use a 90 degree pick

^^^^....or buy a seal puller. Not too expensive.

Craftsman seal puller (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00947091000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Automotive+Specialty+Tools&BV_UseBVCookie=No)
It's like a screwdriver that was modified for removing seals. Works great.

Ah, that works too, I was thinking of the funky one that "T"s at the end...

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00947645000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Automotive+Specialty+Tools&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

A seal puller to pull seals? You guys are crazy!! :lol:

Guess I coulda figured that one out myself.