Just got my issue- they tested them on a 92X :) 17x7.5 wheels in 235/40/17's- Azenis/RE01R's/Neova/ the new Federal 59RS. They tested them both at the track and a autox course. The Falken finished both first on the track and autox course (five averaged runs), but as expected not by much. They also felt the Azenis started to drop off at the track w/ repeated laps.

The Federal pretty well- a second off the pace on the autox course, but fourth. Still fourth on the track, but much closer- a couple of tenths.

Lots more details in the article.

How did the re01r's do?

and the Neova's? I just dropped major money on a set (damn you Prodrive for only making 06D's with an 8" width in an 18" wheel ARGH!!!! :lol:).

buy the magazine and find out ;)

they were all really close iiirc. seemed to be within a second on a 40 some second course. so close i'd be looking at price and wet performance over lap times.

mean runs (5 total) were as follows

autox Falken 43.07; Yoks 43.24; Bridgestone 43.29; Federal 43.82

track Falken 39.71; Bridgestone 39.89; Yoks 39.98; Federal 40.16

Thanks for the heads up BigSky, can't wait to read the article.

What was the setup of the 92x? Stock?

can you pick up Grassroots in the bookstores? I just ordered a subscription but would like to read the article :D I'd run out and look right now except it's 10 PM and about 30 minutes to the nearest store that MIGHT carry it.

Thanks for the heads up BigSky, can't wait to read the article.

What was the setup of the 92x? Stock?

Swift springs/AGX's/ Grp N front tops; roll bars f/r but no mention of size/brand; a healthy -3.0 up front (doubled up camber bolts)

can you pick up Grassroots in the bookstores? I just ordered a subscription but would like to read the article :D I'd run out and look right now except it's 10 PM and about 30 minutes to the nearest store that MIGHT carry it.

I know I've seen it at the Borders and Barnes and Nobles. Maybe Wal-Mart. Don't know about other smaller retailers.

Cool. Thanks.

mean runs (5 total) were as follows

autox Falken 43.07; Yoks 43.24; Bridgestone 43.29; Federal 43.82

track Falken 39.71; Bridgestone 39.89; Yoks 39.98; Federal 40.16
Its not often you see longer autox times than track times :lol:

In my experiance the azenis are fast new but they seem to fall off quickly so Im not really surprized at the results. Wish my issue would hurry up and get here.

And the most important question, were all the tires shaved, or were they run at full tread depth?

And the most important question, were all the tires shaved, or were they run at full tread depth?

Full tread depth. I think they had about 100 or so street miles on them.

The article is a joke. If you have driven 615s on track and driven Neovas then you know that the Neovas are a whole lot faster. I drove Neovas, 615s and RE01Rs in prep for OLoA and the Neova is the tire to have right now IMHO.

Matt

The article is a joke. If you have driven 615s on track and driven Neovas then you know that the Neovas are a whole lot faster. I drove Neovas, 615s and RE01Rs in prep for OLoA and the Neova is the tire to have right now IMHO.

Matt

Are you talking autocross or track? The article does state that the Azenis fall off faster and need to be sprayed between runs. I ran a whole season of autocross on the Azenis in the FL heat and they heatcycled out after about 8000 street miles and 70 runs. Autocrossed them until they looked like slicks and they didn't loose a whole lot even when cycled out.

The 2 different articles they have done give testing and timing methods and conditions. What were yours, maybe your testing is suspect. Did you test them all the same day, same car, same surface? What timing or datalogging method did you use.

Don't confuse felt better with went faster.

Yeah i read this last night. I trust GRM, but EVERYBOdy is saying how superior the neovas are. I consider myself cornfused. The parameters of a tire test and the nature of the testing makes it extreamly difficult to draw coincrete conclusions about which tire is "best". But the test data should be better than people saying I have driven on bothe and the neovas are better.

If you join NASA, you get Grassroots as part of your membership for 1 year. :)

The Falkens will always perform well on the first or second run on a nice warm day. They get very gummy in hot weather or if you hot lap them...

Bryan

My understanding is the Falkens will heat cycle out faster. Either way, I love them for autocross and they are alot cheaper than the Yoko's.

Um, as far as I know most people go Neova because of the contingency money :p If Falken or Bridgestone offered contingency many more would be on those tires.

No mention of Hankooks? Bummer.

No mention of Hankooks? Bummer.

Unless they shaved all of the tires, and ran a ton of negative camber on the car...they'd probably be one of the slower tires anyway.

IIRC, they came in a close 2nd to the Falken's last year.

This test had -3.0 camber...right about where the kooks need it.

It just strikes me as a little odd that they were tested last year and not this one.

Um, as far as I know most people go Neova because of the contingency money :p If Falken or Bridgestone offered contingency many more would be on those tires.

btw. Bridgestone will be offering contingency this year...;)

No mention of Hankooks? Bummer.

This seems to be an annual article for them, I beleive they did test hanooks with these same manufacturer's 1-2 years ago....

I have run the Kooks with allot of camber and they were great!

I have run the RT's and they were great as well until hot.

Kooks are dang quiet compare to the RT's, if you care about such things, and far superior in the rain, I bought them for transit to events and rainy day tires.

The Advans are really sweet tires, I have not run them but read every test done, user impressions, etc, etc and considered the cost/benefit ratio.

My needs dictate reasonably quite and sooth riding, great grip in all conditions(except snow and ice or really cold days) and can handle some heat as I am a bit rough behind the wheel so heat up my tires pretty quickly.

I went with the RE-01R's and just ordered V710s for my autocross duties. I have dedicated snow wheels and tires as well (W300's, dang fine "snow" tires, were quite stable at 120+;)





Rick

Just check what all of the Street tire class winners were using at the National Championships: Yoks. (Jason Rhodes inherited his STS Championship while on RE01's, but won the ProSolo Championship outright on Yoks.) But you guys and GRM might be on to something ... go with the 615's before everyone else abandons the newer Neova's. Just be aware that the 615's require a more precise style, that they break away more suddenly, need to be sprayed sooner and more often and definitely don't brake as well as the Yoks. But then The Tire Rack has proved in THEIR tests that the RE01 is THE tire when it comes to pure grip. I guess those National Champs care more about Contingency Money then Titles, recorded forever in Record Books and under Forum Avatars and User Names ...

Mako,

The RT or Kooks simply makes sense for a guy on a budget who isn't going for a national title, which is most people autocrossing. I can't tell you why they chose what they chose, but contingency money might be part of it. You could put the National champ in STU on MX's and he would walk away with a trophy over 95% of the people no matter what tire they ran. My neighbor and I both autocross together, he has Yoko's, I have RT615's. We are both in our 2nd year autocrossing. Sometimes he beats me and sometimes I beat him. The tires have very little to do with which one of us is faster from week to week. A really talented driver could win with any of the top tires out. I won our regional STU class last year on RT615's. The main reason is we were running mostly on actual courses with alot of constant radius turns and it is easier for me to run on a more open course. This year it is 90% airport up and backs and I am sucking. So much goes into winning or lossing. National level guys are going to run what ever tire suit their driving style, budget and many data log to see which tire is best on the setup they run. We are all glad you like the Yoko's, but I will take similar performance for 1/2 the cost until my driving skill isn't the limiting factor.

...I was there when GRM did the 'autox' test and got the Federal 595RS's out of the deal...

The 595RS's are GREAT street tires, IMO....VERY-VERY quiet(shockingly so, in fact) for a UHP/MAX tire and VERY grippy, and don't squeal like a stuck pig under hard cornering......I'd rather have these than the Hankook RS-2 that I had or the Falken R-215's I had, for street use.

...and they DO run pretty wide.

I would get them again, no doubt

Funny thing is, I use both 615's and Neova's ... at the SAME time ... on the Elise that I co-drive, in our local SK1 class ... Stock Cars on Street Tires. 245/40/17 Yoks in back and 205/16 615's in front ... the only way I can maintain the same rake and sizes as my co-driver on Hoosier R's ... running SS. Yok only has a 175 60 Neova for the front ... Falken doesn't make a 245/40/17 for the rear. I tried running 235/40/17 615's in back ... but we thought that contributed to the SNAP oversteer we were Suffering from. Now, with a larger front sway bar and the 245/40 Yok's in back, I can lean on the car with more confidence. But I really wish I could have big Yoks in front. The Elise needs to be driven hard into the corners to take advantage of weight transfer, otherwise the very light front end wants to wash out. The Yoks are definitely better under braking then the 615's.

Local our guys start with 615's but move up to Yok's when they start wanting to try and compete with our top drivers. A lot of our top STU/STX guys, Mike Simanyi, Max Hayter, Jeff Barco, Seb Rio's run in our Pax Class against drivers like Tom Berry, Ken Motonishi, Rita Wilsey, Jason Uyeda, Jason Rhodes, Jason Isley, Eric Clements, Bill Schenker, Ryan Buetzer, Wil Kalman, Toby Larson, Bret Norgard, etc. so you've got to have the best shoes on ...

http://images24.fotki.com/v764/photos/4/43793/4785149/20070401093-vi.jpg

Mako,

I use both 615's and Neova's ... at the SAME time ... on the Elise that I co-drive, in our local SK1 class ... Stock Cars on Street Tires.Please explain how a Lotus Elise, a lightweight, RWD, go kart is comparable to any car using current ST classing.

Then, please explain how the dynamics and chassis setup of an Elise is the same as a Sentra, a Civic, a WRX, a Neon, an STi, an EVO, an all the other cars that run in the existing ST ruleset (of which Lotuses are not allowed) so that we may be able to compare what you're doing on the Elise to our cars.

Only when you can do both of those with success, will I accept your comparison and explanation of "because you ran them on an Elise, they apply to everyone".

Please Mako... when doing comparisons, at least compare the tires as used on some of the cars that you typically see in ST. What you've explained above can possibly help those in your local SK1 class, but really.. almost everything else really doesn't help the rest of the ST community. An elise is set up so much differently, from the factory, than any other car in ST.

--kC

Mako,

The RT or Kooks simply makes sense for a guy on a budget who isn't going for a national title, which is most people autocrossing. I can't tell you why they chose what they chose, but contingency money might be part of it. You could put the National champ in STU on MX's and he would walk away with a trophy over 95% of the people no matter what tire they ran. My neighbor and I both autocross together, he has Yoko's, I have RT615's. We are both in our 2nd year autocrossing. Sometimes he beats me and sometimes I beat him. The tires have very little to do with which one of us is faster from week to week. A really talented driver could win with any of the top tires out. I won our regional STU class last year on RT615's. The main reason is we were running mostly on actual courses with alot of constant radius turns and it is easier for me to run on a more open course. This year it is 90% airport up and backs and I am sucking. So much goes into winning or lossing. National level guys are going to run what ever tire suit their driving style, budget and many data log to see which tire is best on the setup they run. We are all glad you like the Yoko's, but I will take similar performance for 1/2 the cost until my driving skill isn't the limiting factor.

Well said. I am one of those guys on a budget. I'm looking for the best "bang for buck" tire for at least another year.

Scotty, how do you rate the grip of the RS-2's compared to that of the 595RS's? I can probably guess that the noise that you are referring to is that of the RS-2's. They howl when being pushed hard!

Buck

IBpage10.

I had the RS2's (my wife likes them on the Matrix :lol: , have driven the RT615's, and now have the RE-01R's, although I have not yet done an event on them. Will report back.

PS- I really liked the RS2's except for their transitional feel was a little loose.

Silver arrow has it pretty well covered. When comparing the top level street tires the big factor is how much you want to spend. The top tires of choice are the Hankook R-S2, Falken RT-615, Bridgestone RE-01R, and the Yoko Advan Neova. They range from around $100 per tire to over $200 per tire. Hankook is the cheapest, then Falken, then Bridgestone, then Yokohama.

Look at GRM's test results...in both tests all of the tires were within 1 second of each other. You can contribute some of that to driver error and a corner that wasn't repeated perfect every run. And GRM also notes that the Falken did so well because its has great cold grip on the first run. It comes down to what you can afford. If you are running for a national championship you'll go through 3 sets of tires in a season and also have shaved sets for dry and full depth for wet. You can obviously afford the best and a lot of it. The rest of us have to weigh our options and buy the best tire we can afford.

Dry grip they are all about equal. Some have a more progressive limit before they give way and plow. Others have a stiffer sidewall that aids in transition response and feedback. Some of them are simply better for the wet. STS is limited to a 225 on an Impreza. The size of choice for STX is a 235/40R17. You can use a 245, but the 235 fits the 8" wheel better and give you a gearing advantage with the smaller OD. For STU I believe we are still limited to a 245.

Yokohama Advan Neova - Very similar tread pattern to the Hankook. Softer rubber compound means a little more grip, but fewer miles / events out of them. Of the comparable tires it has the stiffest sidewall and provides the best response. Tire of choice for former STX national champ Josh Sorter and last year's STX ProSolo champ Billy Brooks. I'd say at least half the STX field at the national championships was running Advans (I was there, I looked).

Bridgestone RE-01R - Relatively new tire in the group. A lot of people questioned its abilities and not many ventured to try it. Tirerack testing shows it has very high lateral grip, performs well in the wet, and doesn't make a lot of road noise. It has a relatively stiff sidewall, though its still softer than the Advan. Treadlife is a touch higher as well, having potential for a few more miles. Jason Rhodes won the 2006 STS championship on this tire, though that was in a 240SX, not a Subaru. I believe the top finishing Subaru was Corey Ridgick running Falkens. I was somewhere in the mix with Hankooks (4 tenths behind Corey on day 1...hitting too many cones on day 2 to matter).

Falken RT-615 - As GRM testing shows, they are very good for the first few runs, but need to be kept cool to maintain performance. In a 225 these are probably the tire of choice for STS Imprezas. According to specs on Falken's website the 225/45R17 is "reinforced". I take that to mean a stiffer sidewall. Anyone know otherwise? You'll also notice that the 235/40R17 is not reinforced. If that means softer sidewall, then its advantage over Hankook doesn't exist in that size. The RT-615 is a much better wet tire than the old RT-215, but the 615 is still not a GOOD wet weather tire. Any other tire in this class will beat it on a wet day. (Previous info corrected, Falken didn't win a championship this year or apparently even come close...see post #39 where AtomicRacer posted the results and tires. I knew there were a lot of people on Neova's, I hadn't checked every car in grid to know those figures)

Hankook R-S2 - The tire of choice for the budget minded autocrosser. Overall lateral grip is on par with the group. The tire is progressive at its limit, you can feel it slowly lose grip as opposed to suddenly losing it and plowing. They are the best tire to have for wet weather (at full tread depth). Their downfall is the sidewall. The transition response and feedback just isn't there compared to other tires. These are a good choice if you race your daily driver. You'll get more miles and a better ride from these tires without sacrificing too much at the autocross events.

I used the Hanook's on my own STX car last season. I've run the Falken RT-215 and the Hankook an an STS prepped RS. I used the RT-615 for a few events on an SM WRX. I've run the Advans on the WRX Billy used to win the ProSolo championship. The stiff sidewall of the old Falkens is very similar to the Advan. The new Falken fails in comparison. I love my Hankooks for their affordability and overall performance, but after driving the Advan I'm making the switch this year. I was talking tires with Billy at one event and he made it very simple. The Hankook outperforms even the Advan in the wet, but the stiffer sidewall of the Advan is worth the money you spend.

If you're on a budget and have to use one tire for daily driver and autocross, the Hankook is a better choice than the Falken. You will sacrifice a bit of dry grip, but you'll be king on wet days. If you live where it doesn't rain, then by all means get the Falkens. If you can manage $50 more per tire I would seriously consider the Bridgestone over the previous two. Wet performance is still great, but you do get more grip and a stiffer sidewall. For those with money, get the Advans. If you are going to try winning a national championship you don't even need to bother reading this as you likely have the plans or funding to try each tire this season and then decided on one before nationals. If that's the case, I'm so very jealous. In either case, if you're heading to nationals this year I'll see you there with my season old, heat-cycled Advans (assuming the co-driver doesn't blow up the tranny or motor)!

Superb post!!!! real experience and real info based on what really happened, can't get much better than that!

I picked the RS-2 for my transit tires and wet day race tires in SM class tC and loved them. I almost picked up a set for my SM class Forester to use the same way but we get little rain here in the race season so am going to try the RE-01Rs instead. I run V710s for dry race tires (autocross) and will run the RE's on track days which they seem to do well in.

I like the Advans and could of easily gone with them but like testing tires I have never been on and saved a few bucks as well:)

Rick

:-) ... No comparison ... just funny that although I was pushing one tire over the other ... I have to use both.

But ... I'm very good friends with drivers like Jeff Barco ... who does very meticulous testing of all of the tires at a certain test facility with his '06 STX Nationals winning car ... which was on Yok's even though the car said Falken. His shaved 615's being stolen just before Nationals. He couldn't get new shaved 615's in time, so his sponsor let him run Yok's. In the end he admitted that the Yok's were better ... and he was tired of having to make the 615's work. Better Info KC ? :D

It was not a secret that he ran Nationals on Yok's ... I don't think it's fair for me to revel any of his other test data ... but the fact that he's still on Yok's, and won both the recent San Diego Tour and El Toro Pro says it all. If you can afford Yok's, you use them. If you can't afford them you use 615's ... but there is evidence that the Yok's aren't as expensive as they seem because they last longer. If you can't afford to Lose ... you use the Yok's. If you aren't at a Nationals level, then of course it doesn't matter. But since the Yok's are so much nicer at the limit ... they do help newer drivers.

I do a LOT of instructional runs with Newbs and developing Suby AX'ers ... last Saturday I probably drove 8 different STI's, Evo's and STX WRX's ... so I get a lot of comparison runs between oem tires, 615's, Neova's. From that experience I can catagorically say that I ... first one to admit that I'm not a great AX'er ... can tell the difference between the tires and prefer the Neova's at the limit and under braking.

I was one of the first to buy a set of RE-01's (for a STU STI that I was co-driving,) and Hankooks. The Kooks are great for the price and for newbs, and I would say that they should be their first tire. I don't know anything about that fourth tire in the GRM test. The RE-01's were really numb, need to be shaved if you're serious. Barco tried out our RE-01's and told us to get rid of them right away, while people were still interested in trying them. That was March 2006. There is some talk that there is a new RE01? Jason Rhodes used the RE-01 at last years Atwater Pro. After two or three wins at other National events on Yok's, he switched to the RE-01 and promptly was third. We didn't see those tires again until after he won the National Championship ProSolo on Yoks and then brought out the RE-01's for the Solo National event, which he was lucky to win through inheritance. It's not clear why he didn't run Yok's for that event.

I was talking tires with Billy at one event and he made it very simple. The Hankook outperforms even the Advan in the wet, but the stiffer sidewall of the Advan is worth the money you spend.

It should probably be pointed out that Billy outperforms everyone in the wet. :) I still have no idea how he is that fast when it rains, and it doesn't seem to matter what he's driving or what tires it has.

I picked the RE-01 and hope they are decently quite on the street as has been made note of in the tests done so far. I am in the business of making cars quieter and noisy tires are the second worst offender to deal with, noisy exhaust is number one.

If the Advans were quieter I would probably run them instead if going all our or the Hankooks which I still have a set on some PRF1's in the shop(will put them on my kids car for their learning tires for autocross, may as well get some good use from them:)

Rick

Also worth mentioning is that you can get a lightly used set of RE070's for $300-$400 a set and while they might not be in the top 5 (I haven't tried anything other than the 615's of the tires mentioned and that was on an Evo) they are still excellent tires, and with the price so low the bang for buck is pretty high :)

(I use them as my "oh F* it's raining" or "I'm too lazy to change wheels" tires)

john

Falken RT-615 - As GRM testing shows, they are very good for the first few runs, but need to be kept cool to maintain performance. In a 225 these are probably the tire of choice for STS Imprezas. According to specs on Falken's website the 225/45R17 is "reinforced". I take that to mean a stiffer sidewall. Anyone know otherwise? You'll also notice that the 235/40R17 is not reinforced. If that means softer sidewall, then its advantage over Hankook doesn't exist in that size. The RT-615 is a much better wet tire than the old RT-215, but the 615 is still not a GOOD wet weather tire. Any other tire in this class will beat it on a wet day. As far as merits are concerned I believe Falken won the 2006 STU and STX championships. I believe it was Jeff Barco in STX? Consistency won that championship. I don't want to take away from his win, but there were faster cars on Advans on day 2. Unfortunately for them, those drivers had poor first days and took themselves out of contention.


That is incorrect.

Nationals
STX 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th were on Neova's
STU 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th (12 of the top 13) were on Neova's

ProFinale
STX 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th were on Neova's
STU 7 of the 8 competitors including the winner were on Neova's

In the classes that had the Neova sizes that were appropriate they dominated, period.

-Paul

ps: contigency is nice but it don't mean squat if you can't win.

Agree, the RE070's are very good, very stiff side walls ... Tom Shephard was doing very well in STU with them in Southern CA ... against Max Hayter, Mike Simanyi, Richard Jung, etc. As a newb STI STU driver, I would definitely stick with them at first ... together with JDM Pink springs and a big front sway bar ... a great beginner package.

btw. Bridgestone is doing a big push into AX. They had their big truck at the San Diego Tour. They had good deals on their tires. Some of the top drivers were able to get test sets. Check around to see who to get in touch with ...

Jason Rhodes used the RE-01 at last years Atwater Pro. After two or three wins at other National events on Yok's, he switched to the RE-01 and promptly was third. We didn't see those tires again until after he won the National Championship ProSolo on Yoks and then brought out the RE-01's for the Solo National event, which he was lucky to win through inheritance. Heh, I'd rather be lucky than good! :p

I guess going faster than all the other ST classes and beating the driver/car combination that's been at the head of the class since 2002 wasn't enough, I've got to beat all the illegal cars too. I'll have to try that much harder I guess...:p

So everyone looks at Chris Fenter's 3rd place finish on RS2's as an anomoly and he would have won STX at Nationals on Advans?

Maybe ... :rolleyes: ... you would have thought that he would not have taken a chance with the Kooks ... there was plenty of evidence that the Kooks are slower ... so why go to Nationals thinking you can drive around a handicap. Oh ... because Branden could do it. :eek:

Are you talking autocross or track? The article does state that the Azenis fall off faster and need to be sprayed between runs. I ran a whole season of autocross on the Azenis in the FL heat and they heatcycled out after about 8000 street miles and 70 runs. Autocrossed them until they looked like slicks and they didn't loose a whole lot even when cycled out.

The 2 different articles they have done give testing and timing methods and conditions. What were yours, maybe your testing is suspect. Did you test them all the same day, same car, same surface? What timing or datalogging method did you use.

Don't confuse felt better with went faster.

On track, I don't do the autocross thing(not that their is anything wrong with it). Same day same track same car , and G2x data aq doesn't lie. Not only are the Neovas faster they are worth 1.2-1.5 seconds at Roebling Road Cold. On the 4th or 5th hot lap the 615s are gone and the Neovas are still chugging right a long.

Ill see if I can find my data logs, the Neovas had significantly more grip. Keep in mind this is on a really well prepped car so if you are running stock suspension etc... you're results good vary.

Matt

btw. Bridgestone will be offering contingency this year...;)

I haven't been able to find any info on this at all- link by chance?

I haven't been able to find any info on this at all- link by chance?
It's in here towards the end IIRC:
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/237265.aspx

I haven't been able to find any info on this at all- link by chance?

Postings in scca forums. http://sccaforums.com/forums/permalink/237265/237837/ShowThread.aspx#237837

Great post Scooby921. Thanks much for all the insights. I'd quote you, but didn't want to add that much more space to the thread.

Just as a note, I've been running RE070 (great deals on barely used ones), and their grip is astonishing. If all of the above tires are as good or better... wow...

One thing I read in some posts is the nature of the tire breakaway... for a relative noob to autocross, it seems that progressiveness up to the limit AND recovering from exceeding the limit are very helpful from a learning standpoint. If I blow the limit and push, the RE070 recover extremely quickly, and it's kind of a nice way of letting me know that I was a bit hot, and at the same time it won't kill my time. The Toyo T1R's I had though... going in too hot was disastrous for finishing times. And those poor cones.

thanks- looks like the "official" contigency hasn't been announced yet- I'll keep my eye posted :)

At least you guys aren't complaining that it wasn't done on a Subaru-product this time ;-)

Per

At least you guys aren't complaining that it wasn't done on a Subaru-product this time ;-)

Per

right car, popular wheel/tire size- no complaints here :banana:

Oh believe me, now we're getting complaints that we didn't do the 205/50R15s...Um..yea, we've done that size in 20 other tests....

can. not. win.

At least you guys aren't complaining that it wasn't done on a Subaru-product this time ;-)

Per

HEY! YEAH, WHATS UP WITH THAT YO!

lol j/k

Hello,
Oh believe me, now we're getting complaints that we didn't do the 205/50R15s...Um..yea, we've done that size in 20 other tests....

can. not. win.
Well, if you wanted to be really scientific and relevant(to me), y'all would have called me up, asked to borrow my car, and tested that way. I mean, the magazine is worthless if you aren't going to test tires on MY setup. Duh!

:D

Joel

PS: Good job, keep on trucking, y'all are still the most relevant magazine to privateer racers

A new set of my slow RT615's showed up at the door yesterday. :banana:

Oh believe me, now we're getting complaints that we didn't do the 205/50R15s...Um..yea, we've done that size in 20 other tests....

can. not. win.

Most of us are still quite happy that there is someone out there even trying Per. Member of the silent (I'd hope majority but I know better) who read the articles, take into account MY setup, car and driving style and appreciate you're giving me an extra data point or two to help me make the decision on what I should test myself and what I should use. If you're letting magazines make your tire choices for you then you aren't fast. :devil:

I have tested almost all the tires that are considered competitive in STX.

And I can say with actual datalogging info, that the 615's, RE01's and the Neovas are so very close when it comes to G-Loading and repeatable course times. (these tests were done on a very high grip abrasive surface on a 30 second course, that had atleast one of each element you would find on a typical autox course.)

There is one tire in the group that IMHO, was leaps and bounds ahead of all the others. The advantage really didn't show up in the datalogging (although this tire showed much more consistent and even numbers in lefts and rights, which actually says alot for the dynamic weight loading ability of this tire, which also contributes to the fact that this tire will give more grip to the heavy front end of the imprezza chassis) but it did show up in the seat of the pants feeling the tires gave.

All these tires may very well put up very close numbers, but the Yok just feels so much better than the others at the limit and never once on the yoks do you feel like your desperately trying to keep it in the traction envelope like you might with the other street tires. This alone can yield enormous gains when confidence is your best friend in the grid at a national event.

Between the three tires, you really can't go wrong. But at some point IMHO, your gonna want that rubber that just feels like it's really willing to work with you and at that point you can count on the yoks to let you really flog your car with alot of confidence.

JB

Any input on shaved vs full tread?

Any input on shaved vs full tread?

Sorry I didn't mention that. All tires were shaved to 3/32's and were brand new on the same model of rota rims.

JB

xx ;) xx

There is one tire in the group that IMHO, was leaps and bounds ahead of all the others. The advantage really didn't show up in the datalogging (although this tire showed much more consistent and even numbers in lefts and rights, which actually says alot for the dynamic weight loading ability of this tire, which also contributes to the fact that this tire will give more grip to the heavy front end of the imprezza chassis) but it did show up in the seat of the pants feeling the tires gave.

so which one?!?! have you tested BFG KDW2? that's suppose to be hot too.

? Jeff said which one ... read again! Jeff's car won the SCCA National STX Solo Championship last year ... with ...

The KDW2 isn't in the same league as the three tires that Jeff tested. Those three are it ...

The KD is pretty decent hot weather tire, but it's a generation behind now ... the KDW2 might make a decent rain tire. But I would put my money on the Goodyear GS-D3 for deep water rain.

KDW2 is apparently better than KD in the dry...

I have seen kdw2 chunk on the rear of an srt4 before. I imagine you would have to shave them down to essentially nothing to get rid of the tread squirm on them.

KDW2 is apparently better than KD in the dry...

The overwhelming amount of supportive data justifying your claim clinches it for me. KDW2 will be my next choice for sure.

Chris H.
ps: JB can suck it

Ah ... "2" ... 2nd generation ... you're probably right.

One of our top new drivers, Jason Terry seems to be using them ... well. He's running STU with his 2.5 WRX, and doing a very credible job. He should have his new Koni's pretty soon. Remember this guy! At Atwater last weekend he came in 13th out of 16, beating an STI and 2 Evo's with his very stock WRX.

http://images14.fotki.com/v387/photos/4/43793/4601063/NewGray-vi.jpg

All these tires may very well put up very close numbers, but the Yok just feels so much better than the others at the limit and never once on the yoks do you feel like your desperately trying to keep it in the traction envelope like you might with the other street tires. This alone can yield enormous gains when confidence is your best friend in the grid at a national event.

Between the three tires, you really can't go wrong. But at some point IMHO, your gonna want that rubber that just feels like it's really willing to work with you and at that point you can count on the yoks to let you really flog your car with alot of confidence.

JB

whats up cuttie.. so how much did yoko pay you?.. haha... j/k dude;)

I have tested almost all the tires that are considered competitive in STX.

And I can say with actual datalogging info, that the 615's, RE01's and the Neovas are so very close when it comes to G-Loading and repeatable course times. (these tests were done on a very high grip abrasive surface on a 30 second course, that had atleast one of each element you would find on a typical autox course.)

There is one tire in the group that IMHO, was leaps and bounds ahead of all the others. The advantage really didn't show up in the datalogging (although this tire showed much more consistent and even numbers in lefts and rights, which actually says alot for the dynamic weight loading ability of this tire, which also contributes to the fact that this tire will give more grip to the heavy front end of the imprezza chassis) but it did show up in the seat of the pants feeling the tires gave.

All these tires may very well put up very close numbers, but the Yok just feels so much better than the others at the limit and never once on the yoks do you feel like your desperately trying to keep it in the traction envelope like you might with the other street tires. This alone can yield enormous gains when confidence is your best friend in the grid at a national event.

Between the three tires, you really can't go wrong. But at some point IMHO, your gonna want that rubber that just feels like it's really willing to work with you and at that point you can count on the yoks to let you really flog your car with alot of confidence.

JB

I have to agree with Barco on this. I have driven all three with extensive time on the 615's and Yoks (multiple sets of each both shaved and unshaved) and the Yoks are just faster and easier to drive at the limit. Or maybe they are faster because they are easier to drive at the limit.


Regardless of my opinion, thanks Per for taking the time and putting forth the effort on this test and others like it. Love GRM. =)

-Paul

Chris H.
ps: JB can suck it


:P

Don't make me post those photos of you and max in the hotub in Atwater this past weekend.

Heard you two got along real good. :eek:

JB

whats up cuttie.. so how much did yoko pay you?.. haha... j/k dude;)


Hey!!!!

Are you still in town? Or are you now a Television Star hiding in LA.

I might have a job for you.

Call me...


JB

PS. Don't call me cutie in public, max and Hartman might get jealous

Just got my issue- they tested them on a 92X :) 17x7.5 wheels in 235/40/17's- Azenis/RE01R's/Neova/ the new Federal 59RS. They tested them both at the track and a autox course. The Falken finished both first on the track and autox course (five averaged runs), but as expected not by much. They also felt the Azenis started to drop off at the track w/ repeated laps.

The Federal pretty well- a second off the pace on the autox course, but fourth. Still fourth on the track, but much closer- a couple of tenths.

Lots more details in the article.

that's pretty kewl. Federal 595RS isn't that far behind and I believe it is a way cheaper tire isn't it?! cheap tires FTW. :banana:

mean runs (5 total) were as follows

autox Falken 43.07; Yoks 43.24; Bridgestone 43.29; Federal 43.82

track Falken 39.71; Bridgestone 39.89; Yoks 39.98; Federal 40.16

thumbs up to GRM for great tire tests... kinda wish you guys would make the course closer to a minute to really show the difference more. but i guess top autox guns are pretty darn consistent anyways. and as others have mention, what kind track is that.... lol. shorter than autox. that's an oxymoron yo!

Good luck finding any........