Is the 2002 WRX competitive in its stock autocross class?

What street tire class does the WRX fit into?

I'm looking at possibly getting one...gathering information.

Is the only street tire class STX?

Thanks for the help guys!

Dave

If you're asking about Street Touring: http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/StreetTouringCategoryClassificationsbyManufacturer .pdf

2002 WRX would be in STX. It'd also be eligible for STU, but that's probably not as good of an idea.

Prep the car for STX....that's where is shines.

Most likely, you'll go newhere fast in D-stock. Horrible turbo lag and no camber. You'd just end up eating r compounds.

I think a driver in an '02-'03 WRX finished in the Top 10 at Nationals a few years back. However, like thrdeye mentioned, the 2.0L WRX is the car to beat in STX - it just completely destroys the Cooper S's, ITR's and everything else in that class. :devil:

So what kind of mods are we talking to be competitive locally?

Dave

I think a driver in an '02-'03 WRX finished in the Top 10 at Nationals a few years back. However, like thrdeye mentioned, the 2.0L WRX is the car to beat in STX - it just completely destroys the Cooper S's, ITR's and everything else in that class. :devil:
I don't know about "destroys," but, yes, it's competitive in STX. The Croys, Jason Wong and Josh Sortor would be the ones to talk to about setup.

The '02 WRX isn't as competitive in DS (stock class) trim, unfortunately.

Karen

So what kind of mods are we talking to be competitive locally?

Dave

Depends on the drivers in your region, but -

uppipe, turbo back exhaust, coilovers, swaybars, wheels and tires.

How competitive you are locally really depends on who is local to you. You may be able to swap on some stickier street rubber and sway bars and kick butt.

I won my local STX series last summer with the following setup:

Hankook RS2's on stock 16" wheels
Performance four wheel alignment
22mm Front Sway Bbar and 20-22mm Rear Sway Bar
Whiteline HD rear endlinks
Rear Strut bar (I have a wagon) Also makes a good camera mount :)
Tein H-Tech Springs on stock struts
Noltec Camber Plates
Ebay UP
Gutted OEM DP
Cobb AP STX Map

If I were to pick the top three, I would choose tires, sway's and alignment to do first.

Gutting the OEM DP is free and you can gut the UP as well. I would recommend Enginuity instead of the AP.

Best of luck,

Buck

So what kind of mods are we talking to be competitive locally?

Dave


What's your region?

+2 for the 02 not being a DS car.

I run an 02 wrx in stx. For me it seems like the best place to be. lower cost street tire. enough camber adjustment to get even tire wear. close jump into ESP.

Listen to Karen (Camaro FS34) she's right.

It's ALL driver and competition dependant. I am sure that a very good driver in an 02 WRX with the right tires/dampers/swaybar would be competitive. Most people won't listen at all to our setup advice for DS so they are slow.

STX is good but you gotta spend the monay to be competitive. You can win STX or DS locally depending on the level of competition in your region.

How bout Winston-Salem, North Carolina? I think sways, tire, alignment sounds like a goooood start...sounds like a good street car compromise....

I don't have to be ultra competitive...........................uh yet

Dave

Well, Southeast division isn't exactly "chock full" of STX cars, so you could definitely do well locally with the proper driving. But....there's usually that one driver you can just never catch. :furious:

You can win STX or DS locally depending on the level of competition in your region.
I think that's the important point... even without the "car to have" you can do well locally by just outdriving people :)

We only have one or two people really campaigning a 2.0L WRX in DS in DC, but Bill does win sometimes :) His car has all the important stuff - Konis, big front bar, and shorty sticky tires (forget which ones). An equally talented driver in an equally prepped ITR or 330i probably has an edge, though.

john

"The Croys, Jason Wong and Josh Sortor" ... oh, right, local and regional set-up. :p

How bout Winston-Salem, North Carolina? I think sways, tire, alignment sounds like a goooood start...sounds like a good street car compromise....

I don't have to be ultra competitive...........................uh yet
You've got some people down there that can certainly help you out with setup. Tarheel Sports Car Club? Biggly's down that way with the ex-Hoppe car (also an '02), Steven Rankins (pleiades) shows up when he's not too busy doing track days with his '07 STi... plus some guys that don't run National level events, but are still very competitive, like Kevin Allen for one.

Try asking in the SEIOC section, especially if you know which event you'll be attending next.

Karen

So what would be the first sway bar to add? Front or rear? It will mostly be street driven, but will see 2-6 track days/yr. and a handful of autocrosses.

I really need to drive one of these cars...

Dave

I don't know about "destroys," but, yes, it's competitive in STX. The Croys, Jason Wong and Josh Sortor would be the ones to talk to about setup.
Karen,

'destroy' was a bad choice of words on my part, but it's definitely the 'it' car in STX. Looking at the STX results from Topeka in '06, 4 of the top 5 places were WRXs, with an E30 M3 occupying the 5th spot. Doesn't mean an E30 M3 or mini cooper S couldn't win the class, but I do know that Craig Wilcox got tired of losing to WRXs in his STX Cooper S, and switched to GS at Nationals - which he ended up winning.

Yet a Mini came in 2nd two years in a row in STX will Billy driving. It was very close, right? What if he had won?

Locally we have a fairly nicely prepped STX Mini driven by a development engineer for Hotchkis. He use to be right up there in STX, but Barco and his Team Blew mates have, I believe, upped the bar, both in driving and car development so that typically that Mini is always behind a number of WRX's now. And that's with Barco and Seb Rio's running their STX WRX's in PAX, so that others have a chance at winning the local STX Championship.

dps ... lots of threads on swaybars here. Go big in front, to control lean that takes away your static camber = extra understeer. Adding extra Caster via modified camber plates further helps maintain camber while cranking over your wheel ...

Oh come now, Mako, we don't go around telling someone who's looking to be regionally competitive that he has to put together a 99% car to do so. Give us some credit. We've given lots of regional setup advice over the years.

On that note, if you're looking to go STX.

One of the first things we did was to ditch the RE92s and get some decent tires. We went ahead and bought a second set of rims, so we could keep the original set for winter use (not a big consideration in NC I imagine) and so we could get some wider, low-profile tires. Our original aftermarket set were 17x7s, but my recommendation would be to go ahead and go with a set of 17x8s now, rather than kick yourself a year from now when you want wider tires than 17x7s or 17x7.5s can fit. The Enkei RPF01s are a strong, lightweight, cheap 17x8 option.

As for the tires to go on them. If you can find an STi owner with some take-off 225/45-17 RE070s that they'll sell for cheap, that's a great way to go. The RE070s are especially good if stock suspension WRXs, given the extremely limited negative camber. The RE070s have strong sidewalls that stand up well to the flex that a stock suspension would throw at them. After you can get some decent negative camber in the car, I'd vote for the Hankook Z212s, particularly if you're going to have one set for both autocross and street use. They have great rain handling, are very competitive, and are inexpensive.

Honestly? That's where I'd stop for now. Drive a number of events like that. (Or even better, drive those events on the RE92s, might as well not tear up nice tires while you're just learning!!) Once you can better pinpoint WHAT you want to change and can tell us WHY, then you'll be ready to mod. :)




But for reference, first non-tire/wheel mod we did was a stiffer, adjustable RSB. Definitely transformed the feeling of the car from an understeering pig to a fun car to drive. :) However, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably have bought the FSB/RSB combo to begin with, instead of spending more money later to do so. Course, there is plenty of debate on "the" proper FSB - everything from "big honking FSB" to "slightly stiffer FSB" to "stock size FSB" to "no FSB". So as always, YMMV.

After that, the mods that will get you to that 75+% car would be brakes, downpipe/uppipe, and suspension (including camber adjustability). In no particular order. But I personally wouldn't want to see you going that route until you can tell me what the car is doing now (in detail) and what you want it to do. :)

Yet a Mini came in 2nd two years in a row in STX will Billy driving. It was very close, right? What if he had won?I assume you mean Courtney in the Mini, right? Billy co-drove Jason's WRX.

i totally agree with jcroy66.
if you've got some RE92s on there now, burn through 'em learning.
for such a **** tire, it's incredible the amount of learning you can get out of them.

Naturally such a poor gripping tire only amplifiy's the cars natual intention to understeer, and this will teach you how to get closer to the edge of the tire under lower speeds. once you bump up to a seriously high grip 235/245 the speeds go WAAYY up and any mistakes you make are just amplified suddenly.

i burned off the re92s 3/4 through my first season with the car, at around 25k (with 15k of wuss previous owner driving it) but by that time, my times were getting on par with DSers with a street tire adjustment, and i was landing low pack of stx in raw times. once the REs were gone, i decided to just get the fat stickies for next year early, and put them on, as the stock wheels were going to get snow tires. not new all seasons.

2 day weekend, same course backwards. wound up back of the pack with the REs in STX day one, switched to the fat stickes and took first on day 2. after every run i'd be driving away from the finish, arms flailing everywhere and screaming "I LOVE THESE TIRES!!"

Ah... memories.

OK, so I was just thinking. Let's go all the way back to basics here.

Given the fact that the OP sounds pretty uncertain on what street tire classes there are (for reference, STS, STX, and STU are full national classes, and STS2 is a supplemental class), I am/was assuming you're a novice (or close to it). So guess what? It doesn't matter whether an '02 WRX is competitive, no matter what the class. Because when you're learning, you're not going to be competitive. You could have the fastest car out there, and you're still going to get beat (at least sometimes). :) One of the guys here at work nicknamed me "Viper-Slayer" years ago, because I'd told him about how I'd beaten a Dodge Viper (straight-up, raw time, no indexes involved), while I was driving a puny little Toyota Celica. The fact was: the Viper driver was new at it, and was so discouraged by our little econoboxes beating him that he never came back. So my advice? Don't be that guy. Recognize that when you're just learning, you're going to get beat, and even after you've been doing this awhile, you're probably still gonna get beat. :) I should know; I get beat by Phil almost every event. (Hey, would winning be as much of a thrill if you won EVERY time??)

So the most important thing is to keep striving to improve your OWN driving. :) And have fun!!!

This thread went from DS to STX quickly. :lol:

This thread went from DS to STX quickly. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

You, Andy Leece and Bill Taylor are some of the few 2.0L WRXs still soldiering on in DS! :alien:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You, Andy Leece and Bill Taylor are some of the few 2.0L WRXs still soldiering on in DS! :alien:

...and I'm not there by choice :(

...and I'm not there by choice :(

+1 For not being able to afford to make the car STX competitive. :( Funny enough, I think our cars will really take a whomping not from the ITRs or 330i, but the next generation WRX.

It looks like the next gen WRX (ugly as it is) has a kick ass engine and chassis setup. I think the car could win DS based upon some early specuation and wild assumptions. PEAK TORQUE AT 2,800rpm!!!!!!!

God, if you could just get past the fact that it looks like a friggin' Corolla.

God, if you could just get past the fact that it looks like a friggin' Corolla.
I could get past that fact! :p Seriously, its looks are growing on me... :D

I could buy a new '08 WRX as I would actually have a small downpayment if I traded-in my current car (put 7K down at purchase), however, we need to buy a 4 bedroom house before I go car shopping again. Even if that wasn't the case, I would be hestitant to by a first gen WRX on the new platform due to parts availability needed for stock class - FSB, struts, exhaust, etc. It may be that parts for the current LGT will work on it, or they could be entirely different and the aftermarket could take 1-2 years to catch up.

I may look into getting one in '09 after I know what the 2010 updates will be. If the new STI gets 320-330hp, they may eventually bump the WRXs power up to an 'official' 250+hp. I would also like to see a stronger 5spd developed for the car.

Oh come now, Mako, we don't go around telling someone who's looking to be regionally competitive that he has to put together a 99% car to do so. Give us some credit. We've given lots of regional setup advice over the years.

On that note, if you're looking to go STX.

One of the first things we did was to ditch the RE92s and get some decent tires. We went ahead and bought a second set of rims, so we could keep the original set for winter use (not a big consideration in NC I imagine) and so we could get some wider, low-profile tires. Our original aftermarket set were 17x7s, but my recommendation would be to go ahead and go with a set of 17x8s now, rather than kick yourself a year from now when you want wider tires than 17x7s or 17x7.5s can fit. The Enkei RPF01s are a strong, lightweight, cheap 17x8 option.

As for the tires to go on them. If you can find an STi owner with some take-off 225/45-17 RE070s that they'll sell for cheap, that's a great way to go. The RE070s are especially good if stock suspension WRXs, given the extremely limited negative camber. The RE070s have strong sidewalls that stand up well to the flex that a stock suspension would throw at them. After you can get some decent negative camber in the car, I'd vote for the Hankook Z212s, particularly if you're going to have one set for both autocross and street use. They have great rain handling, are very competitive, and are inexpensive.

Honestly? That's where I'd stop for now. Drive a number of events like that. (Or even better, drive those events on the RE92s, might as well not tear up nice tires while you're just learning!!) Once you can better pinpoint WHAT you want to change and can tell us WHY, then you'll be ready to mod. :)




But for reference, first non-tire/wheel mod we did was a stiffer, adjustable RSB. Definitely transformed the feeling of the car from an understeering pig to a fun car to drive. :) However, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably have bought the FSB/RSB combo to begin with, instead of spending more money later to do so. Course, there is plenty of debate on "the" proper FSB - everything from "big honking FSB" to "slightly stiffer FSB" to "stock size FSB" to "no FSB". So as always, YMMV.

After that, the mods that will get you to that 75+% car would be brakes, downpipe/uppipe, and suspension (including camber adjustability). In no particular order. But I personally wouldn't want to see you going that route until you can tell me what the car is doing now (in detail) and what you want it to do. :)

Thanks for ALL the information. I have autocrossed for the past 6 years (on and off, NASA instructor yada yada) and have run a EM Mustang Cobra, Miatas, etc...

Anyway, I was trying to see if I could be relatively competitive in close to stock form in *some* class...without spending a ton of money. Realisitcally, I would love to have an extra set of 17X8 wheels to mount some Falken Azenis for street/autocross/track....I've been down the r-comp road...I hate changing tires at an autocross...

How wide a tire can I run on a sedan w/ 17X8s? It looks like 245, but will the azenis fit?

Thanks

Dave

The 245 Azenis will fit, but you're better off with a 235/40/17 for better acceleration.

You can run STX for relatively cheap, IMO and be able to trophy at a divisional level.

Thanks for ALL the information. I have autocrossed for the past 6 years (on and off, NASA instructor yada yada) and have run a EM Mustang Cobra, Miatas, etc...
Oops, my apologies. As I said in the later thread, I was guessing you were fairly new to autocross, based on the ST* classing question. Please accept my apologies for the misunderstanding. :o

Anyway, I was trying to see if I could be relatively competitive in close to stock form in *some* class...without spending a ton of money. Alright, looking at it from that POV. Back when I ran DS in the 01-03 timeframe, the early WRX was a very good regional DS car. Its primary battle was with the ITR. With the cars in DS these days, my gut feeling is that DS is probably too fast for an 02 WRX to be competitive, if you're in a region with a strong DS class.

Whereas stated previously, an 02 WRX can be an excellent STX car, possibly the best STX car. On both a regional and national level. But I don't know what your budget is. How much $ you are going to spend to be competitive regionally will of course depend on your region. Within 2-3 hours of me, there are a ton of 99% STX cars, driven by national drivers. And most of us travel to neighboring regions to drive against each other. So if you want to be regionally competitive, you have to be nationally competitive. Most regions though, I'd guess you could probably lay out somewhere in the neighborhood of $3,000-5,000 and be regionally competitive. Really, really rough ballpark: wheels ($1000), tires ($600), suspension ($1000-2500), uppipe/downpipe ($1000).

How wide a tire can I run on a sedan w/ 17X8s? It looks like 245, but will the azenis fit? As thrdeye said, you can fit the 245s, but for competition you'll be better off with the shorter 235/40-17s. If you plan to daily-drive on the tires though, and if you want to keep the outer diameter closest to stock (for speedometer and odometer accuracy), go with the 225/45-17s (closest) or the 245/40-17s.

+1 For not being able to afford to make the car STX competitive. :( Funny enough, I think our cars will really take a whomping not from the ITRs or 330i, but the next generation WRX.

I have started down the STX path a couple of times but I have an issue with my back that flares up every time I change springs! If I get really fed up with DS this season, I'll just do some small power mods and run in ESP for fun.

I have an issue with my back that flares up every time I change springs!
Sounds like your body is telling you to stay in DS! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have started down the STX path a couple of times but I have an issue with my back that flares up every time I change springs! If I get really fed up with DS this season, I'll just do some small power mods and run in ESP for fun.

Same here; I had a 22 mm front and 24 mm rear swaybars on and was going to buy some KW Variante 3s, when I looked at my financial situation and realized that I should be saving my money for graduate school and a house. I sold the swaybars, went with a whiteline 27 mm and am going for some konis and a Borla XR-1 catback.

For your back problem, my only suggestion is to use swaybars (like 24 mm front and 27 mm rear) to compensate for the body roll so you don't have to use high spring rates. Not an optimal solution, but should still make for a regionally competitive STX car.

Even though the ITR is a better car for DS (driven one), I think what Tom Hoppe's been saying for awhile still holds true. No really serious driver has tried his hand with a 2002 WRX in DS. I believe a good driver in a fully prepped car can at least trophy in nationals (I think it's been done before).