Well, I've managed to kill my Pirelli PZero Nero M+S's in about 12,000 miles. Since they're pretty much my perfect tire but I just can't afford to keep buying them at that rate, I'm considering switching to dedicated summer and winter tires. Once of the things I love the most about my Neros is that they're excellent on gravel. My summer involves spending 2-3 weeks on Forest Service roads, which are gravel or worse. Throw in some dirt twin-track and your typical crappy Appalachian backroads pavement, and you've got a pretty stern test of a tire. The rest of the summer, they'll just be zipping around on country roads and the freeway.

Are there any summer tires that can be run on gravel with good control and without killing the tire?

My criteria:
1) Price. CAN'T be over $100/tire
2) Wear/Durability. I can't keep getting new tires every 12k mi. I want to see ~25k mi. Not to mention they've got to put up with crap roads.
3) Handling precision. I love a car that feels surefooted and responsive.
4) Wet traction. Not a huge concern, don't want to go waterskiing either.

Things I don't give a crap about:
1) Super-Mega-Grip on dry tarmac. Just means I'll hit that tree harder with I **** up. Also means I don't get to feel like I'm pushing the car at sane speeds.
2) Brand. Why would anyone care?
3) Looks. Uncle Ben's. Need I say more?

So is there any summer tire that will survive me and my roads?

Most summer tires don't have the tread pattern to bite well into loose surfaces. You may want to stick with the All-seasons of some sort.

i want to know this too..

You're not going to find a tire that's great on both tarmac and gravel. You have to decide which is more important to you or how much you are willing to give up in one area to get better performance in the other.

I had Toyo Proxes4's a few years ago. I believe they are very similar to your PZero M+S's. They were great on tarmac and okay on gravel but they wore out very quickly. I've now swtiched to Bridgestone G009's which are better on gravel, okay on tarmac and should have a much longer life span. The other tire that is I was considering was the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S.

Sumitomo HTR+

They're not the best performing dry tire in the world, but they will find grip in gravel and snow.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=HTR%2B

Around $75 a tire. I ran a set for 40k miles, and they are a decent tire for the money.

Yeah, research led me to the conclusion that the Nero was pretty much the ideal tire for me... I just can't keep pumping $600 every 10 months into tires.

I guess a different way to ask this is "How bad are summer tires on gravel?" Are we talking like cheap all seasons on dry tarmac, or are we talking like summer tires on ice and snow?

If they're only as bad as cheap tires on tarmac, screw it, it'll be just fine. If it's a total skating rink, I can't put up with it.

...one issue with summer tires on gravel is that they get chewed up---literally

somebody posted that one of the BFG tires worked well on gravel

Yeah, I was worried about that. It just seemed logically that a softer compound wouldn't like the abuse. I really am just trying to find a replacement for my Neros that will last longer. Hell, I wish I even knew why they had died so quickly.

I messed with my RS212's in some gravel and stone conditions (parking lot) and I actually didn't like them...because they had better grip than I thought! The 92's made throwing it around on gravel easy and fun, but the Hankooks grabbed very well when I was trying to get it to throw around.

As for chewing them up, I've no idea. I was only on the stone for a minute because it was boring haha.

(they are 92$ a tire at that 'other' place ;) )

From all I've read, summer tires would probably be one of the worst choices. Winter tires, some say, are best in a pinch. Otherwise, short of gravel tires, stick with A/S I guess?

Yeah, research led me to the conclusion that the Nero was pretty much the ideal tire for me... I just can't keep pumping $600 every 10 months into tires.

I guess a different way to ask this is "How bad are summer tires on gravel?" Are we talking like cheap all seasons on dry tarmac, or are we talking like summer tires on ice and snow?

If they're only as bad as cheap tires on tarmac, screw it, it'll be just fine. If it's a total skating rink, I can't put up with it.

It's not as easy as saying they are equal to summer tires on snow, or any other comparison. The thing about unpaved roads is they vary a lot. Some have large loose gravel, some have fine well packed dirt, some are muddy, some have large rocks sticking up, some have big pot holes, some are sandy, some are rutted. One road can have all of these conditions along it's length. Sometimes the same road can be totally different on two different days depending on how much rain there's been. A good tire for a gravel road is one that can handle itself reasonably well in all conditions. For some conditions a smooth summer tire may work just fine, but in others it would be like driving on ice.

If you want to be totally confident on a gravel road you need to go with a tire that is suited for the worst conditions (i.e. one with big lugs). But obviously that would make you car handle like a jeep on the highway, so you have to decide how far YOU are willing to go.

Look in Nokian WR's. They're pretty much winter tires you can use all-year round.

Go to a wal-mart that has an auto center like in reynoldsburg or lewis center. They have H rated goodyears like the eagle GT-HR for $98.74 with a 50k treadwear warrenty. I think you have to add about $11.00 per tire for ohio disposal fee and replacemnt warrenty ... . Forget the nokians. Winter tires have a soft treadwear compound and wear real quick in hotter weather.

Go to a wal-mart that has an auto center like in reynoldsburg or lewis center. They have H rated goodyears like the eagle GT-HR for $98.74 with a 50k treadwear warrenty. I think you have to add about $11.00 per tire for ohio disposal fee and replacemnt warrenty ... . Forget the nokians. Winter tires have a soft treadwear compound and wear real quick in hotter weather.

:rolleyes:

bfg kdws are supposed to work

Go to a wal-mart that has an auto center like in reynoldsburg or lewis center. They have H rated goodyears like the eagle GT-HR for $98.74 with a 50k treadwear warrenty. I think you have to add about $11.00 per tire for ohio disposal fee and replacemnt warrenty ... . Forget the nokians. Winter tires have a soft treadwear compound and wear real quick in hotter weather.

:lol:

The ContiExtremeContact is probably one of your best bets.

bfg kdws are supposed to work

I'm a fan. They do pretty well in the dry too. Bought them for rally-x, wound up leaving them on when not auto-xing. Decently stiff sidewalls. Some of the guys out here sipe them further for better dirt grip.

They are a bit noisier that the old set of yokohama avs-db's that were on the car when I bought it.

fwiw (not much) the treadwear rating is 400.

I've definitely killed the idea of summer tires. What about the Potenza RE960AS PP's vs th BFG KDWS?

I live in a area of about 60% dirt roads... i've run a few summer tires in the gravel and my Kumho 712 were by far the best i've had... the problem, there not making them anymore, from what i gather...

They were strong, handled good, they were like dam sharks in the mud, i never once got a puncture. (besides a nail)

I have some brand of cheap azz tire (summer) that i got at discount tire, they work just fine as well...

I personaly think a decent tire with a realitivly open tread, but with many tread blocks to grip whatever, is going to be your best bet... spending good money, should be your least concern as your gonna tear them up a bit...

There are many "cheaper" options... I've owned Yokahama, Kumho, Dunlop, Nitto, and Pirrelli. The Kumho and the Nitto have always been standouts for my.... Heck, when i owned my VW i had 205/40-16 Nitto 450s and hit a pot hole so large it bent 2 rims, and not a little... never even lost any air...

I've owned more Kumho though and with all the dirt driving they have seen...... Man i wish i could get 712's in my size again...

My .02$

I've definitely killed the idea of summer tires. What about the Potenza RE960AS PP's vs th BFG KDWS?

....using UHP/MAX performance 'summer' tires...mebbe.


...and Aaron, above, makes a point....punctures....THAT is another thing that off road tires should address.

I remember some guys using the Falken 215's for just this reason....they had so much steel in them that they were almost indestructible.

I have similar tire needs in Colorado and I am very happy with Bridgestone RE960AS. I run 205/60-15 on strong rally wheels year-round. $75 a tire and they should get 35,000 - 40,0000 miles. They turn in well on pavement, they are good on gravel, and they are good in snow. I tried Nokia WRs and found them to be too squirmy, with too soft a sidewall, and I sold them. The Dunlop Winter Sport M3s performance snows I used to run were quite a bit better than the WRs on pavement! The RE960As are significantly better than both on pavement, very good on gravel, and almost as good in snow as the Dunlops.

Superg