New laws pave the way for Toyota to acquire Subaru

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/new-laws-pave-the-way-for-toyota-to-acquire-subaru/

http://www.motorauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/odds_and_ends/2007/2/1/subaru.jpg


Changes to Japan’s antitrust laws has leaves the path open for industry giant Toyota to take over Fuji Heavy Industries, the parent company of Subaru. Toyota has owned an 8.7% stake of Fuji Heavy since October 2005 but according to analysts, the company always wanted a controlling stake but couldn’t due to the antitrust laws at the time. According to Automotive News, combined sales of Toyota and Fuji Heavy comprised 45.6% of the Japanese domestic market in 2006.

Under the previous antitrust rules, no company could control 50% of the Japanese market for any product, but the new rulings will look at global market share instead when reviewing mergers and acquisitions. The changes are designed to strengthen Japanese companies’ competitiveness on world markets, but won’t take effect until the 1st of April. Toyota taking a controlling stake in Fuji Heavy is sure to bring that number one automaker spot ever closer to the Japanese giant. We also hope that Toyota will take advantage of Subaru’s expertise in AWD and performance cars and apply them to future models. Subaru could definitely add some spice to the normally staid Toyota lineup.

I saw this on another forum site earlier today. Very interesting.

Not good in my opinion. Subaru has much to offer by being a stand alone inovative company. I think that by coming under the Toyota bean counters that the uniqueness will slowly disappear. Toyota makes great soccer mom cars that are dependable and DULL. JMO

I wonder if Toyota would go for that.. since, at their current rate, they're looking at running into some anti-trust laws in the US in another decade. Subaru is a good cooperative for them, and a good niche player that Toyota can co-exist with.

Not good in my opinion. Subaru has much to offer by being a stand alone inovative company. I think that by coming under the Toyota bean counters that the uniqueness will slowly disappear. Toyota makes great soccer mom cars that are dependable and DULL. JMO

Now what advantage would Toyota gain by making Subarus just like Toyotas (bland and dull)?

If anything, I see it as an opportunity for Subaru to dig into Toyota's deep pockets for money to develop more unique models.

Bob

There would have to be a very fine line; on how much influence can Toyota have without manipulating Subaru's 'image'.

I like the line about Subaru adding spice to toyota. Let's just hope Toyota doesn't decide to mellow out the flavor.

Yeah Toyota never does anything cool. :rolleyes:

-Jon

Hooray for FHI!

Not good in my opinion. Subaru has much to offer by being a stand alone inovative company. I think that by coming under the Toyota bean counters that the uniqueness will slowly disappear. Toyota makes great soccer mom cars that are dependable and DULL. JMO

EXACTLY what i was thinking...

Toyota=
SCION LEXUS SUBARU?

that would truly suck, subarus 200,000 in sales would be great in addition to toyotas millions, but subaru would just be another automobile manufacturer.. worst of all, if subaru was taken over by toyota would all subaru just become Toyota's "new branch" Subaru, their AWD brand, kinda like Scion "customizing brand aimed at a young market" then could we expect massive toyota dealerships to open up little sections for Subaru like they did with Scion?.. or would subarus just have toyota badges on them (that would suck)? because honestly just seeing this from a few years back would make me depressed as hell

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030304/biz1.jpg

Legacy GT + Lexus Goodness = MMmmmm

Toyota did make the Supra...but then killed it.

Oh noes!!! all my STi stickers will have to be TRD!

Overall, I don't think I like it. The thing that makes Toyotas desirable is reliability. Subaru already has that...so I don't see how it would benefit. A big negative I see; however, is losing a lot of the parts interchangability between various Subarus.

Subaru has a niche...which would likely disappear if Toyota were to take over.

Subaru is one of the very few independent car makers still around. It would be very sad to see them lose that.

Outside of continuing to operate Subaru as an independent company, I'm not sure what Toyota would do with Subaru. drivetrain, motor, body, market, etc, all seem to be the antithesis of Toyota. Trying to share across those two brands would be fraught with peril, and I see GM like badge engineering as one of the outcomes.

It could be good, it could be bad. I really think that Toyota just wants FHI's battery technology.

Although I don't own a Subaru, I love them as a company. I like how they market their products and how they have a small lineup that caters directly to their target niche.

It would probably be beneficial to Subaru if Toyota bought them out but as an enthusiast, I would hate to see this happen.

Maybe then we wouldn't have to categorize the outback as an SUV to meet the CAFE standards lol.

I think this will help a few crucial issues Subaru has been having lately:

1) Marketing/Advertising
2) Product development
3) Influence over suppliers/corporate interests

I see it as a big opportunity for both companies, especially because of Toyotas corporate capability and management. I do hope Subaru isnt changed too much as a brand, and hopefully the TRD style of aftermarket products could be applied to Subaru's US aftermarket products as well...

Subaru and Porsche are the two most interesting car companies in the world in my opinion. That's why I have one of each....:)

I think subaru can benifit from it, since the hybrid market is taking off, this gives subaru access to Toyota's hybrid system. Boxer engine + Hybird system = environmental fun! Plus, sharing of techs = savings = more competitive pricing. Subaru needs something like this, the competition is quickly catching up and soon all car companies will be selling AWD models (although not true AWD but most people won't care or understand the diff). +1 for merger...

I'm optimistic if this happens.

Subaru makes fun cars with questionable fit and finish.
Toyota makes boring cars with excellent fit and finish.

Hopefully mixing the two will yield fun cars with excellent fit and finish instead of boring cars with questionable fit and finish :)

+ 1 for merger. Toyota will really help out Subaru as a company - just don't let Toyota bore the hell out of the Subaru lineup, then I am fine with that. :)

I think subaru can benifit from it, since the hybrid market is taking off, this gives subaru access to Toyota's hybrid system. Boxer engine + Hybird system = environmental fun! Plus, sharing of techs = savings = more competitive pricing. Subaru needs something like this, the competition is quickly catching up and soon all car companies will be selling AWD models (although not true AWD but most people won't care or understand the diff). +1 for merger...

Subaru's current arrangement with Toyota already will give them access to Toyota's hybrid system without giving up their independence.

I like the line about Subaru adding spice to toyota. Let's just hope Toyota doesn't decide to mellow out the flavor.

Scion is wholly-owned by Toyota if I recall, and has their very own styling and flavor. Sure the flavor is crap to those with taste, but still they seem to be doing their own thing.

As long as we don't start seeing an influx of 2WD Toyotas rebadged as Subarus, but the cash flow is brought in, all will be well.

I think this will help a few crucial issues Subaru has been having lately:

1) Marketing/Advertising


Hmmm... I actually like that new Legacy commercial.

IIRC Scion is not a company owned by Toyota, its just a different badge like Lexus.

Now what advantage would Toyota gain by making Subarus just like Toyotas (bland and dull)?


They wouldn't, but look what happened to Saab, Volvo, and Jaguar.

IIRC Scion is not a company owned by Toyota, its just a different badge like Lexus.



They wouldn't, but look what happened to Saab, Volvo, and Jaguar.

Volvo is putting out some of the best looking cars on the road. The new C30 is flat out stunning to look at.

Bob

i give my thumbs up to toyota...they are a good company, if and when they own subaru; I would expect good things...

Scion is wholly-owned by Toyota if I recall, and has their very own styling and flavor. Sure the flavor is crap to those with taste, but still they seem to be doing their own thing.

As long as we don't start seeing an influx of 2WD Toyotas rebadged as Subarus, but the cash flow is brought in, all will be well.

Scion is purely a brand name like Lexus.

Scion is purely a brand name like Lexus.

Yes, but the point is, it is a distinct brand of Toyota with its own style. Subaru has its own styling and could just as well be a brand of Toyota with its own identity.

I think some good could certainly come out of this. I think Toyota's marketing department could certainly show SOA a thing or two about advertising. The new Tundra commercials are pretty aggressive.

Just because 2 companies merge doesn't mean that their products have to become one and the same - both sides have a lot to gain from a business perspective from a merger. Costs could be reduced by buying parts in even greater quantities, funding could be shared, marketing could be streamlined...there could be many advantages that could be exploited while still operating both as relatively independent companies.

I don't know if anyone agrees, but it could be something like Mazda/Ford/Volvo, where each exploits each others' financial/business/marketing resources and buying power, but we don't see Mazdas becoming like Ford F1 pickups.

I don't know if anyone agrees, but it could be something like Mazda/Ford/Volvo, where each exploits each others' financial/business/marketing resources and buying power, but we don't see Mazdas becoming like Ford F1 pickups.:huh: Mazda pickups were ford Rangers.

i think it'll be a good thing. subaru's will have access to nicer interior plastics and better paint and better reliability AND better customer support AND AND AND... the list goes on and on. Toyota being the richest car company can afford to do many good things with Subaru... and I doubt they will change the company in a bad way.

Subaru has a niche market with the WRC involvement, the Hi Performance AWD's, the mundane "i have to own one cuz I live in the snow belt" AWD's, and a solid following among the lesbian community. These are key elements that keep the company afloat... that if Toyota can further refine, can elevate the company even higher.

Any company that will do a massive buyback of their cars cuz they found a part that MIGHT have a tiny chance to fail, is a company I'd like to buy from... however, the thought of a Toyota makes me want to fall asleep. ZZZzzzzzZZZZzzzzzzz...

Subaru could use a lot of help in production costs and efficiency, an area where Toyota obviously excels.

Toyota doesn't typically make very stupid business decisions and is smart enough to realize that the Subaru brand and image stands well on its own. If anything, it'd give Subaru better buying power and probably better overall build quality.

The sky isn't falling.

I'll have to give a thumbs down to the idea. My employer is owned by a much larger corporation in the same industry... it's frustrating and stifling to have budget constraints and profit goals set by outside forces, and to be producing continually increasing revenue for a higher layer of corporate "overlords".

Who says FHI would even want to relinquish ownership?

+1 for retaining local control. +2 for retaining current partnership w/Toyota... already allows for benefits to FHI.

Also, unlike an American car company, Toyota (culturally) recognizes that the idea is to build your investment LONG TERM instead of squeezing all the profits out of it you can, as quickly as possible, before dumping the discarded hulk to the curb (ala GM and Ford)

A Subaru with Toyota's hybrid technology.... Hmm....

Umm

Lexus AWD IS 250 :)

It's very hard to recognize that Daihatsu is controlled by Toyota when viewing their website at http://www.daihatsu.com/. Same for Denso.

A Subaru with Toyota's hybrid technology.... Hmm....
That was going to happen anyways regardless of Toyota gaining more FHI shares

... oh dear goodness
<----- Proof you don't need to know much to be a guru :D

bleh, im on the fence with this one.. yeah, toyota makes some NICE cars, but probably some of the most boring cars as well. i would hate to see a subaru with a inline or v type engine, it would totally kill subaru. i just hope that if this does go through, toyota will help subaru achieve its OWN goals while just helping, not dictating.

Supra Turbo AWD? Hmmmm

Assuming there's no badgineering going on, I also see Subaru getting more R&D, and hybrids (maybe some diesel engineering too, as toyota owns Hino, and I believe a chunk of Isuzu), and as long as they pretty much let Subaru operate independently, things will be OK.

Toyota, sadly, has not had an interesting car since they killed the supra, really. Their small trucks (pre-Tacoma) were also pretty awesome (I had an 89 4Runner, it was excellent), in their day. Nowadays, everything they sell just plain BLAND, especially with the MR2 and Celica dead. The tC is pretty nice, but it's no Celica (my brother has a tC, and seriously, I like it, but it's no better a car than my RS, and wrong wheel drive, to boot).

Like somebody else said: The. Sky. Is. Not. Falling!

Geez, Toyota won't mess Subaru up like the Big 2.5 would have.

Subaru and Porsche are the two most interesting car companies in the world in my opinion. That's why I have one of each....:)


I agree partially with this statement in the fact that I think their similarities are more than just boxer-deep. ;)

Now Subaru is facing a similar issue Porsche almost went through: A buyout.

I also think that if they come out independent it will serve them best.

-Mike.

Toyota probably had the option of buying all of GM's 20% stake in FHI. They opted, instead, to limit their holdings to less than 10% of FHI's outstanding shares. Why?

Now Subaru is facing a similar issue Porsche almost went through: A buyout.How is Porsche's recent purchase of a controlling intrest in VAG remotely similar to FHI's position?

maybe some diesel engineering too, as toyota owns Hino, and I believe a chunk of Isuzu), and as long as they pretty much let Subaru operate independently, things will be OK.

Except Subaru is already almost done engineering their diesel engines and supposed to be releasing models in Europe later this year.

I think it would be good for Subaru to get some management help from Toyota, they already share technology. IMO Subaru is going to need some help if other manufacturers keep coming out with All-wheel Drivetrains.

GM owns 20% of Subaru now. thats how Saab got there hands on the WRX wagon to make the 9-2x. When most auto manufactures own other brands of auto manufacturers it seems that they usualy stick to there own product. Like how GM owns many other companies, same with Ford. I don't think if Toyota owned Subaru we would have to worry about Subaru being sold at Toyota dealers, nor would we have to worry about loosing the STI trademark and it being replaced by the TRD name. I no professional on the subject at all, but i don't think it would change much.

GM owns 20% of Subaru now. thats how Saab got there hands on the WRX wagon to make the 9-2x. When most auto manufactures own other brands of auto manufacturers it seems that they usualy stick to there own product. Like how GM owns many other companies, same with Ford. I don't think if Toyota owned Subaru we would have to worry about Subaru being sold at Toyota dealers, nor would we have to worry about loosing the STI trademark and it being replaced by the TRD name. I no professional on the subject at all, but i don't think it would change much.

:huh: :huh: :huh:


GM does not own 20% of Subaru now. GM used to own 20% of Fuji Heavy Industries until October of 2006, when GM sold off its stock in FHI. Toyota bought 8.7%. What we're talking about in this thread is the possibility of Toyota increasing their existing share of Subaru to a controlling interest.

;16943042']Toyota probably had the option of buying all of GM's 20% stake in FHI. They opted, instead, to limit their holdings to less than 10% of FHI's outstanding shares. Why?

Thought this was to avoid violating antitrust laws.

;16943042']Toyota probably had the option of buying all of GM's 20% stake in FHI. They opted, instead, to limit their holdings to less than 10% of FHI's outstanding shares. Why?

my guess so they could have JUST ENOUGH to get the hybrid battery technology.. (what just enough is i have no clue, just throwin this out there :D)

Thought this was to avoid violating antitrust laws.

im pretty sure thats the reason they didnt buy more.... its kinda what this entire article is about, laws changing allowing toyota to buy more.

my guess so they could have JUST ENOUGH to get the hybrid battery technology..

If Subaru wasn't independent, who can say for sure if that Lamilion battery technology would've ever been developed. Long-term, large corporations stifle creativity and individuality when they are forced to eventually streamline to retain shareholders' profit levels during "lean" times. I'd hate to see Subaru streamlined out of existence at some point down the road.

Toyota sourced direct injection across the board.

Huge benefit for the turbo models with better fuel economy, more power, better emissions, more power off boost.

;16943061']How is Porsche's recent purchase of a controlling intrest in VAG remotely similar to FHI's position?

That's not what I was referring to at all. Long ago someone was looking to buy Porsche out and they declined.

-Mike.

Volvo is putting out some of the best looking cars on the road. The new C30 is flat out stunning to look at.

Bob

Sure, but their quality control tanked since Ford took over. QC specifically would not be a problem with Toyota, but other issues might be (eg blandness)

Boooo!

+1 for the Merger.

Good things can come from this. Fit, finish, hybrid technology among others.


... a bigger budget for the WRC...

one can hope.

and I highly doubt that Toyota would phase out the brand as they are already looking to add more brands to diversify their portfolio.

world domination will come to Toyota because they were able to do what GM couldn't with their multitude of brands.... have something that appealed to everyone.

RR :D

Now Subaru is facing a similar issue Porsche almost went through: A buyout.



when did that happen?

;16943061']How is Porsche's recent purchase of a controlling intrest in VAG remotely similar to FHI's position?

Porsche bought ~25% of VAG to prevent

1. hostile takeover of Porsche
2. ensure delivery of VW components. VW now has incentive to not supply porsche with components since they now compete in the same segments, with the Cayenna, and Porsches purchase of Lambo, and moving upscale with Audi.

What's with all this "fit, finish, and reliablility" crap... have you been in a toyota lately, the interiors are very low-rent but smartly designed (albeit bland design) and they've been plagued with a rash of huge recalls in the past 2 yrs. Subaru is already comparable in every measure above to Toyota and surpases in several areas. Perception alone is a dangerous thing.

I want a Saaburu and a Toyoburu in my garage, dang it!

when did that happen?






Several manufacturers were looking at Porsche before their restructuring and the tossing of their front engined cars, but nothing ever happened since Porsche put an end to it.

Subaru would have control in what happens either way. They are a successful company so it will ultimately be up to them (and their terms) on whether this will happen. From seeing the higher-up's at SoJ speak in previous conferences, it seems they are dead set on remaining somwhat independent and conserving their ideals.

-Mike.

its NOT a MERGER!!!!! ahhhh!!!!

controlling interest..

Like Ford has controlling interest in Mazda....

but look at the results.. Mazda still does the same things they did prior to Ford's controlling stake. they still have their own dealerships, models, etc..

I don't like the idea, I will just leave it at that.

-> Someone said "Subaru will add spice to the Toyota lineup" and "Toyota may use Subaru's expertise in AWD and performance cars". Could that mean that Toyota could bring back the Celica GT-Four and/or Subie could bring back the much gloified GC-type/like 2-Door body for the Impreza line, oh what joy could that bring! (:

Sure, but their quality control tanked since Ford took over.:lol: Jaguar's reliability ratings were dismal before Ford took over. They've only gotten better.

^^I was talking about Volvo, not Jaguar.

IIRC the base Jag is not even really a Jag; its mostly built on a Ford platform. I don't want to see that happen to Subaru.

You people seriously need to put the crack pipe down and think for a second before you respond. You're making all these ridiculous assumptions that Toyota is going to come in and dilute the Subaru brand and destroy their whole entire product lineup and the niche that Subaru has carved in the industry. That isn't Toyota's intention of buying Subaru.

Toyota will not really get anything out of Subaru that it doesn't already have. Subaru has more to gain than Toyota does. Subaru is such an odd duck in the industry that I'm amazed that they've managed to survive mostly as an independent company as long as they have, which isn't even really true considering how many partnerships that they've had with Nissan, GM etc.

Subaru doesn't have the massive resources that Toyota does to respond to shifting cultural, economical and ecological changes that Toyota does. This will be a boon to Subaru and aid in their ability to improve the overall build quality of their vehicles without being "diluted" by Toyota's hand. Toyota knows that they can't alter what Subaru has already achieved and attained, but they do know that they're buying a profitable company that has a pretty strong fellowship of owners.

Relax. Put some ointment on the burns on your hands from the burns from your crack pipe and think about things from a business perspective for just a second before you write this business venture off as impending doom of a FWD Camry WRX or whatever. Jesus.

Just look at the January 07 sales figures, Subaru NEEDS help.

Year-vs-year chart at end of document. (http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Newsroom/ViewAttachment.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&AttachmentType=F&EntityID=103059&AttachmentID=80080817-c4e2-480a-9393-b9a83068fe99)

Just look at the January 07 sales figures, Subaru NEEDS help.

Year-vs-year chart at end of document. (http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Newsroom/ViewAttachment.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&AttachmentType=F&EntityID=103059&AttachmentID=80080817-c4e2-480a-9393-b9a83068fe99)

:rolleyes: The first month out after setting its 11th (of 12) record sales years... yeah, we're doomed.

^^And a rejuvenated lineup, a new diesel, and a new 3.6L all poised to make their debuts. Plus the SIA facility is about to be fully utilized, adding more to the bottom line.

Just look at the January 07 sales figures, Subaru NEEDS help.

Year-vs-year chart at end of document. (http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Newsroom/ViewAttachment.aspx?SiteName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&AttachmentType=F&EntityID=103059&AttachmentID=80080817-c4e2-480a-9393-b9a83068fe99)

Remember that's Subaru of America only.

And really, the best help they could get would be to fire their management, marketing, and product development departments and get all new people in there.
Subaru has so much potential that's ruined by poor product planning and lousy marketing.

Not good in my opinion. Subaru has much to offer by being a stand alone inovative company. I think that by coming under the Toyota bean counters that the uniqueness will slowly disappear. Toyota makes great soccer mom cars that are dependable and DULL. JMO

This part is key...

"We also hope that Toyota will take advantage of Subaru’s expertise in AWD and performance cars and apply them to future models. Subaru could definitely add some spice to the normally staid Toyota lineup."

lets see if they act on that.

Toyota, sadly, has not had an interesting car since they killed the supra

Agree... someone needs to pass that joint around again to them in Japan.

Several manufacturers were looking at Porsche before their restructuring and the tossing of their front engined cars, but nothing ever happened since Porsche put an end to it.





aha way before my time. :o

You people seriously need to put the crack pipe down and think for a second before you respond. You're making all these ridiculous assumptions that Toyota is going to come in and dilute the Subaru brand and destroy their whole entire product lineup and the niche that Subaru has carved in the industry. That isn't Toyota's intention of buying Subaru.

Toyota will not really get anything out of Subaru that it doesn't already have. Subaru has more to gain than Toyota does. Subaru is such an odd duck in the industry that I'm amazed that they've managed to survive mostly as an independent company as long as they have, which isn't even really true considering how many partnerships that they've had with Nissan, GM etc.

Subaru doesn't have the massive resources that Toyota does to respond to shifting cultural, economical and ecological changes that Toyota does. This will be a boon to Subaru and aid in their ability to improve the overall build quality of their vehicles without being "diluted" by Toyota's hand. Toyota knows that they can't alter what Subaru has already achieved and attained, but they do know that they're buying a profitable company that has a pretty strong fellowship of owners.

Relax. Put some ointment on the burns on your hands from the burns from your crack pipe and think about things from a business perspective for just a second before you write this business venture off as impending doom of a FWD Camry WRX or whatever. Jesus.

And don't forget about the depredation of big companies that wants all for them and their products. So, they buy a small but good company, transform it and make it dissapear keeping the best of it for the big guy! Like a monster parasite!! :)

And don't forget about the depredation of big companies that wants all for them and their products. So, they buy a small but good company, transform it and make it dissapear keeping the best of it for the big guy! Like a monster parasite!! :)

Don't confuse Toyota with GM or Ford. Clearly Toyota has made much better business decisions than either of those companies have.

And don't forget about the depredation of big companies that wants all for them and their products. So, they buy a small but good company, transform it and make it dissapear keeping the best of it for the big guy! Like a monster parasite!! :)We are Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

;16943042']Toyota probably had the option of buying all of GM's 20% stake in FHI. They opted, instead, to limit their holdings to less than 10% of FHI's outstanding shares. Why?

Thought this was to avoid violating antitrust laws.It seems clear that GM's 20% ownership in FHI wasn't a controlling interest. And neither was Nissan's 20+% stake before that. Why did Toyota structure its purchase of GM's shares to assure its stake in FHI would be less than 10%? I think Toyota was merely interested in Subaru's excess manufacturing capacity at SIA and having Subaru as another customer of its hybrid technology. I doubt Toyota wants to control FHI, even if it could.

Time will tell, of course, but count me in as one of those who sees far more positives than negatives in Toyota taking a greater stake in Subaru. If Nissan and GM didn't manage to stifle Subaru's indomitable, independent spirit, character and imagination, who's to say Toyota will? Toyota didn't get to the verge of being the world's largest carmaker by being dumb, and I just don't see them screwing up Subaru and all the good things it stands for.

I don't know the specifics because I can't find a comprehensive analysis of Japanese monopoly laws, but you can't necessarily compare GM holding stock at 20% to Toyota holding only 8.7% because GM wasn't beholden to the same restriction. At the same time, it's possible but unlikely, that there were advantages to having only 8.7% if you weren't going for the whole shebang. But in the end, the idea that Toyota will acquire a controlling interest in FHI seems to be speculation only.

AWD STi powered MR-S FTW!

--keith

You people seriously need to put the crack pipe down and think for a second before you respond. You're making all these ridiculous assumptions that Toyota is going to come in and dilute the Subaru brand and destroy their whole entire product lineup and the niche that Subaru has carved in the industry. That isn't Toyota's intention of buying Subaru.

Toyota will not really get anything out of Subaru that it doesn't already have. Subaru has more to gain than Toyota does. Subaru is such an odd duck in the industry that I'm amazed that they've managed to survive mostly as an independent company as long as they have, which isn't even really true considering how many partnerships that they've had with Nissan, GM etc.

Subaru doesn't have the massive resources that Toyota does to respond to shifting cultural, economical and ecological changes that Toyota does. This will be a boon to Subaru and aid in their ability to improve the overall build quality of their vehicles without being "diluted" by Toyota's hand. Toyota knows that they can't alter what Subaru has already achieved and attained, but they do know that they're buying a profitable company that has a pretty strong fellowship of owners.

Relax. Put some ointment on the burns on your hands from the burns from your crack pipe and think about things from a business perspective for just a second before you write this business venture off as impending doom of a FWD Camry WRX or whatever. Jesus.

Thank you. Seriously people, Toyota has all of the money and development muscle a company could ever want... let's just forget that they can't make a Formula One car worth a **** but that's another thing I suppose.

There really isn't anything that Toyota would gain by changing what Subaru is.

AWD STi powered MR-S FTW!

--keith
I'd buy that

Note to Toyota... LEAVE THE BOXER ALONE!!!

[/LEFT]
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030304/biz1.jpg[/QUOTE]



^^^ this is real they sell them in india

So does this mean that if Toyota was to actually take over i wouldn't have to drive around an ugly hatch car around.... a coupe i could deal with but come on a freaking hatch lol... If i wanted that i would just but the Forester for the room... It is hot looking though lol

Does this articles site anything from FHI or Toyota? No? Why? Because it's pure speculation with no substance. Anyone getting worked up about this is wasting his/her time.

What's with all this "fit, finish, and reliablility" crap... have you been in a toyota lately, the interiors are very low-rent but smartly designed (albeit bland design) and they've been plagued with a rash of huge recalls in the past 2 yrs. Subaru is already comparable in every measure above to Toyota and surpases in several areas. Perception alone is a dangerous thing.

100% agree with you! Toyotas are overated .. they are like the damn i-pod of cars... great image, but in reality just overhyped subpar car... I will never buy a Toyota ever again... I have owned 2 in my lifetime ...4runner and a camry .. both had many mechanical problems..... WRX 105k hard miles with 0 problems.

If Nissan and GM didn't manage to stifle Subaru's indomitable, independent spirit, character and imagination, who's to say Toyota will?

Nissan and GM didn't have the controlling interest to attempt it. Besides, wasn't the rumor that it was GM that put the nix on the B9 Scrambler convertible 'cause it'd compete with the then-upcoming Solstice/Sky?

Toyota didn't get to the verge of being the world's largest carmaker by being dumb.

You're right. They were smart enough to know that they needed to sell inoffensive, reliable, economical cars that appealed to the most people possible.

Nissan and GM didn't have the controlling interest to attempt it. Besides, wasn't the rumor that it was GM that put the nix on the B9 Scrambler convertible 'cause it'd compete with the then-upcoming Solstice/Sky?
Interesting. I'd never heard that about the B9 Scrambler. Perhaps Toyota will let Subaru take a stab at producing the B9, especially with the Toyota MR2/MR-S Spider on its deathbed if not already dead in Japan and Europe...

Does this articles site anything from FHI or Toyota? No? Why? Because it's pure speculation with no substance. Anyone getting worked up about this is wasting his/her time.


You should be getting worked up, it's your pension :)

According to analysts, Toyota wanted to buy FHI before. I think it's reasonable to assume that now they are legally able, they might be still interested.

You should be getting worked up, it's your pension :)

According to analysts, Toyota wanted to buy FHI before. I think it's reasonable to assume that now they are legally able, they might be still interested.


Toyota had the opportunity to buy more shares... and they left them on the table.

100% agree with you! Toyotas are overated .. they are like the damn i-pod of cars... great image, but in reality just overhyped subpar car... I will never buy a Toyota ever again... I have owned 2 in my lifetime ...4runner and a camry .. both had many mechanical problems..... WRX 105k hard miles with 0 problems.

Not to get off topic... but how are you gonna hate on the iPod? :confused:

Maybe Toyota will bring back the AllTrac with the help of Subaru!

Not to get off topic... but how are you gonna hate on the iPod? :confused:Thanks for illustrating the man's point.

This is from http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=abe7FojiTjLE. Toyota Won't Buy Chrysler or Raise Fuji Heavy Stake, Chief Says

By Alan Katz

March 5 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. Chief Executive Officer Katsuaki Watanabe said his company, the fastest-growing carmaker in the U.S., won't buy DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler arm or raise its stake in Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.

"We have no intention of acquiring or buying Chrysler,'' Watanabe said at a press conference before tomorrow's opening of the Geneva International Motor Show. "There is nothing going on on that front.''

Watanabe's comments underscored Toyota's intention to stay out of the speculation over Chrysler's future spurred by DaimlerChrysler CEO Dieter Zetsche's comment on Feb. 14 that "all options are on the table'' for the unprofitable U.S. automaker.

Toyota, the world's second-largest automaker, would listen to a DaimlerChrysler approach about joint research, Watanabe said. "There may be more possibilities,'' he said. "No one has approached us, but you can't exclude such a possibility.''

Watanabe, 65, also dismissed the idea of buying more of Fuji Heavy, which makes Subaru-brand vehicles. Toyota City, Japan-based Toyota bought an 8.7 percent stake in Fuji Heavy in 2005 from General Motors Corp.

The two Japanese companies agreed to develop and build vehicles together. Toyota this year will start using Fuji Heavy's Lafayette, Indiana, factory to make 100,000 Camry sedans a year. Tokyo-based Fuji Heavy plans to use Toyota's gasoline-electric hybrid technology.

Watanabe reaffirmed Toyota's worldwide sales goal of 9.34 million vehicles this year, up from 8.8 million in 2006. Tadashi Arashima, head of Toyota's European unit, affirmed the target of selling 1.22 million vehicles in the region this year, a 9 percent increase.

New registrations of Toyota vehicles in western and central Europe jumped 21 percent in January to 82,404 units, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers Association.

Toyota may pass GM as the world's largest automaker this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Alan Katz in Geneva at akatz5@bloomberg.net .
Last Updated: March 5, 2007 17:34 EST

Toyota Won't [...] Raise Fuji Heavy Stake, Chief SaysI'm glad to hear it.

I'm glad to hear it.
i couldn't agree more so i can stop listening to this bs speculating

Toyota aquiring Subaru? Who knows, but it sounds likely to me. I think it would be a good match. I won't speculate, though. We won't know anything until there's official word.

Think BOXER MR2!

Toyota aquiring Subaru? Who knows, but it sounds likely to me. I think it would be a good match. I won't speculate, though. We won't know anything until there's official word.

Think BOXER MR2!

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

Two posts ahead of yours:

Toyota Won't [...] Raise Fuji Heavy Stake, Chief Says

http://news.windingroad.com/earningsfinancials/subaru-now-open-to-toyota-takeover/

not so good news.... :(

Subaru admits that it can't survive without Toyota's deep pocket.........

Subaru only got themselves to blame................for building ugly cars................they got serious issue with styling........................worse than Ford..............................

Some of these auto makers need to wake up and realize that great performance alone doesn't sell.........buyers do care a lot about how their cars look.

If Toyota does take over, I think it is a good thing and we may finally be able to buy good looking cars with great performance for the money.

That really sucks for you Subi guys and gals.

It could be worse, imagine if GM had taken over Subaru back when they held 10% of FHI.

Why would this suck?We would most likely have a ton more marketing support and many more benifits that we do not have now.If Toyota does indeed step in I think it would be a good thing!

My reasons are stated here in this Straightline blog that went up yesterday.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2627

Bob

since Toyota doesnt have a sports car segment. Lets hope they use subaru as that :D

Why would this suck?We would most likely have a ton more marketing support and many more benifits that we do not have now.If Toyota does indeed step in I think it would be a good thing!

+1, Toyota stepping in could and would have some definite positive affects. Subaru in the last few years has definetly been struggling to find there identity in the styling dept. Even the new WRX/Impreza styling does not distinguish the vehicle as a Subaru. If Toyota were to step in I beleive they would add stability to Subaru forcing them to stick with a long term styling/identity program to distinguish the vehicles as Subarus.

since Toyota doesnt have a sports car segment. Lets hope they use subaru as that :D

Turbo boxer 6, AWD, Supra type car........ :eek:

I guess we're doomed to a new thread about this every month or two. Here's one started early last February: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17272617. The article at http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=abe7FojiTjLE should have ended the discussion. Here's an excerpt: [Toyota Motor Corp. Chief Executive Officer Katsuaki] Watanabe, 65, also dismissed the idea of buying more of Fuji Heavy, which makes Subaru-brand vehicles. Toyota City, Japan-based Toyota bought an 8.7 percent stake in Fuji Heavy in 2005 from General Motors Corp.

The two Japanese companies agreed to develop and build vehicles together. Toyota this year will start using Fuji Heavy's Lafayette, Indiana, factory to make 100,000 Camry sedans a year. Tokyo-based Fuji Heavy plans to use Toyota's gasoline-electric hybrid technology.

+1, Toyota stepping in could and would have some definite positive affects. Subaru in the last few years has definetly been struggling to find there identity in the styling dept. Even the new WRX/Impreza styling does not distinguish the vehicle as a Subaru. If Toyota were to step in I beleive they would add stability to Subaru forcing them to stick with a long term styling/identity program to distinguish the vehicles as Subarus.

:confused:

Subaru may be struggling to find an identity, but Toyota refuses to have an identity.

:confused:

Subaru may be struggling to find an identity, but Toyota refuses to have an identity.


they have enough of any identity to be the #1 car maker in the world sales wise........

i know from personal experience the toyota japan rarely attempts to mettle in toyota canada/ usa's affairs.

i cant see them trying to pull a heavy on subaru. what subarus product line offers toyota doesnt have and what subaru has is a good company that simply needs a little help. i suspect their relationship will be similar to volvo and fords.

they have enough of any identity to be the #1 car maker in the world sales wise........

"We build a damn good car and everyone in the world knows it"