I wanna get the Blitz turbo timer (I'm not sure of the model #), but obviously the guy who fixes up WRXs wants to sell it to me to make business, but a lot of other friends of mine say it's a waste of money unless I seriously race it or autocross it on a regular basis.

During normal driving, I hardly rev to 5K rpm (I'm still breaking it in), and even after 1,000 miles, I'm not gonna redline and dump the clutch at every red light.

Do I need one?

Can I just let my engine idle for a minute or so before turning it off and get the same benefit?

Thanks guys.

:p

This is from a message from Subaru of America:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding cooling down the turbo engine in our WRX models.
Our position regarding this is that it is not necessary to perform a 'cool down/idling'
procedure, as was recommended with past turbo models. Our current turbo engine has
far greater cooling capacity and coupled with technological advances, makes this
practice no longer necessary. This explains why information about a cool down is
not included in the Owner's Manual.

To further explain, the heat contained in the turbo charger will begin to vaporize
the coolant in the turbo charger after the engine is stopped. The hot vapor will
enter the coolant reservoir tank, which is the highest point of the coolant system.
At the same time that the vapor exits that turbo charger, coolant supplied from
the right bank cylinder head flows in to the charger. This action cools the turbo
charger down. This process will continue until the vaporizing action in the turbo
charger has stopped or cooled down.

There are no warranty implications for not allowing your turbo WRX to cool down,
as it is not necessary or recommended.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance. I apologize for the delay in
responding to you. Your patience is appreciated!!

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.

Thanks a lot buddy

:D

Your welcome.

my manual (99 model)reads as follows:

"......it is highly recommended that you let the engine idle for 1 minute before shutting it off.this proceedure helps to assure maximum performance of the turbocharger.the 1-minute idling period allows the turbocharger to cool down as oil is circulated through it by the idling engine.this proceedure is common practice for high performance turbo charged engines."

with that said.......dias taht htiw
do i spy technical advancement:eek::rolleyes:

my manual (99 model)reads as follows:

"......it is highly recommended that you let the engine idle for 1 minute before shutting it off.this proceedure helps to assure maximum performance of the turbocharger.the 1-minute idling period allows the turbocharger to cool down as oil is circulated through it by the idling engine.this proceedure is common practice for high performance turbo charged engines."

with that said.......dias taht htiw
do i spy technical advancement:eek::rolleyes:

Theoretically the Subaru statement sounds great, but Id take that with a grain of salt. Maybe they have come up with some sort of evaporative cooling system, but IMHO best to let the car idle for a couple minutes after it has been dirven. The Turbo Timer, just takes away the inconvenience of having to sit in your car for a minute or two while it idles.

Yeah sure SOA wants you to think a timer is unnecessary. Why would anyone build anything so perfect? So you never have to buy another car...whatever!
That timer probably adds life to the turbo. But so does not driving it at all.
You buy the warranty? ok then don't worry...just drive it like hell:lol:

I agree with the Subaru statement. I just want teh water in the radiator to be cooler than it would be by shutting the engine off so I have a tt as to cool "Help" the SOA theory!

That and the fact that I'm old school lead me to install it!


Leo

call me cheap....
I typically will wait the minute, listen to the rest of the song on the CD player.

With the design of the cooling on the WRX, sometimes you can hear the coolant perculate through the turbo. At least this design is better than what you have in the DSM.

Originally posted by ChrisW
call me cheap....
I typically will wait the minute, listen to the rest of the song on the CD player.

Plus if you happen to be listening to Freebird or something like that you might have plenty of time for the engine to cool way down. :)

I think that the turbo timer might help to extend the life of the turbo a bit, but its really up to the individual whether or not to spend the money on a turbo timer or just sit in the car and let it cool down that or just shut it off and walk away.

From my experience, it is bad to shut any car right off after driving it hard. Sounds like you won't be doing this much, so I wouldn't worry. I bought a turbo time jic...plus it came with a boost gauge, which altough digital, can be useful.

Hey if you have the money then go for it. It can't hurt to have it.

Yup, all good points. TT's seem pretty cool anyway. I do like the others that sit in the car and let it run for a bit (especially after hard driving).

I know that the subaru coolant bit works quite well... if you shut down the car and stick your head under the hood, you can hear it... BUT with that said, i have a HKS type1 turbo timer. Its just pretty stinking cool, and makes a nice shift light at the track ;)

Besides, i perfer to have my EGTs down quite low before the WRX is shut off, and the turbo timer works well for this.

Waste of gas? Likely but i don't really care.

-Nathan

In my case, by the time I get home through residential streets at 25mph, the turbo is most likely cooled. My timer makes for an excellent $100 volt meter!

Originally posted by Sergeant_V

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.

Does Johnny boy have a title? I'd hate to have a statement from a SOA Janitor, and most PR or Engineers should include some sort of title in their correspondence.

I'll always use a TT on a oil/water cooled turbo, especially here in the desert were it gets over 110degs in the summer.

I'd rather just drive slow before I shut it off.... wait, who am I kidding, DRIVE SLOW??? :monkey:

The turbo timer necessity argument is now a true classic. Has got to be the most endless debate on the FI forum... right up there with the BOV worthiness debate, intake snorkelectomy effect and exhaust diameter harangues.

I think that most wrx owners don't use a timer and personally I wouldn't mind TOO much if my turbo hits the crapper (hopefully before 60K miles) It would be a good excuse to upgrade turbos!

Originally posted by Fubaru
The turbo timer necessity argument is now a true classic. Has got to be the most endless debate on the FI forum... right up there with the BOV worthiness debate, intake snorkelectomy effect and exhaust diameter harangues.

I think that most wrx owners don't use a timer and personally I wouldn't mind TOO much if my turbo hits the crapper (hopefully before 60K miles) It would be a good excuse to upgrade turbos!

LOL!!!

I think that synthetic lube for your muffler bearings is going to net a 27 Hp gain when combined with a TT ;) ;)

Oh, and leave cakes and candles on your dash to please the racing gods for even more holy HP!

Another good excuse to replace the turbo is to remove any hoses going to the wastegate!!

Anyone care to calculate the cost of gas wasted using a Turbo Timer versus the cost of a new Turbo?

Interesting results I would think.

Mean

Does Johnny boy have a title? I'd hate to have a statement from a SOA Janitor, and most PR or Engineers should include some sort of title in their correspondence. Sorry man, I don' t know if he's the janitor or just another drone answering phone calls and messages in the customer service department. I'm just re-posting something that's been floating around since the first turbo-timer debate started. FWIW I think a turbo timer is a pretty neat gadget (though I don't have one).

Originally posted by syntrix


LOL!!!

I think that synthetic lube for your muffler bearings is going to net a 27 Hp gain when combined with a TT ;) ;)

Oh, and leave cakes and candles on your dash to please the racing gods for even more holy HP!

Another good excuse to replace the turbo is to remove any hoses going to the wastegate!!


Disconnect the wastegate hose & you're going to be replacing more than just the turbo, and soon :lol: :D :eek:

Speaking of wasted gas, did you know that DRL's could cost the U.S. something like a hundred million extra gallons of gas every year. It's probably true! Check this out:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question424.htm
If daytime running lights were mandatory in the U.S., and all vehicles had them, how much extra gasoline would that use each year?

I have the blitz turbo timer and it works great. the blitz timer will actually calculate the time needed to shut the car off automatically.although, i think it is most useful when you are running higher than stock boost. the motor tends to get much hotter and the turbo timer stays on longer when i run the car on high boost before shutting down.IMO its worth the measly 89.00!!

I can get the turbo on my forester S-turbo (which only has 177bhp and runs lower boost than you guys) to glow red within 5 miles of my house. The speed limit here is 35mph. Does anyone know how hot steel has to be to glow? Try 600 degrees C at least. That _HAS_ to be bad for your oil and coolant. The coolant system may well automatically convection cool, but any evaporation is going to leave deposits in the galleries which will eventually knacker your tubo, and possibly other things within the same system. It wouldn't take much for a 'clot' of deposits to build up, then eventually get dislodged to whizz round your cooling system and lodge in the block. Byebye engine. A turbo will build up loads of heat if it's on boost for a length of time even if it isn't redlined. At 90mph there's better cooling, but at 35mph there's not so much airflow. It may not be worth getting a timer unless it does other stuff, just cruise off-boost the last mile to two to your destination. Much more efficient than letting the engine idle without any cold air passing over the rad.

So if what SOA says is true about the coolant evaporating after shut off to cool the turbo, shouldnt we check our coolant level often, as we'd be using some? Does that make any sense?

Danny

No, you don't need a turbo timmer...

BTW The Titanic was an unsinkable ship..



sometimes technology doesn't always save you...



-Zach

awwww, I think you guys are missing the point! With the TT and the BOV discussions, it's about status ;) When you cruise in to a parking spot and PSSSSSEEEWW goes the BOV to turn heads and you jump out while the car is still running and a few minutes later it turns itself off... that is what it's all about :)

-Jason

whoops... double post :eek:

Originally posted by MazemaN
awwww, I think you guys are missing the point! With the TT and the BOV discussions, it's about status ;) When you cruise in to a parking spot and PSSSSSEEEWW goes the BOV to turn heads and you jump out while the car is still running and a few minutes later it turns itself off... that is what it's all about :)

-Jason

The neon/strobe light kit for your WRX are in the private for sale classified THAT way --->

:rolleyes: :lol:

Originally posted by Fubaru



Disconnect the wastegate hose & you're going to be replacing more than just the turbo, and soon :lol: :D :eek:

Speaking of wasted gas, did you know that DRL's could cost the U.S. something like a hundred million extra gallons of gas every year. It's probably true! Check this out:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question424.htm



I thing the howstuffworks site has a fundamental error in reasoning. The headlights are powered by the battery. The alternator is continuously charging the battery, no matter how much power the battery is using. Having the lights on should make no difference at all in fuel consumption.

Not true. The alternator gets harder to turn based on the amount of current it needs to provide to the battery. I've never tried it in my WRX, but in my Neon, I can actually feel the idle speed drop slightly when I turn on the rear defroster because it's such a big electrical load.

That said, however, I think the howstuffworks calculation is a total load of rubbish. They're talking about 1-2 gallons of gas per car per year. You could easily save more gas than that by just inflating your tires a couple of psi higher or never opening your windows when you drive.

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MazemaN
awwww, I think you guys are missing the point! With the TT and the BOV discussions, it's about status When you cruise in to a parking spot and PSSSSSEEEWW goes the BOV to turn heads and you jump out while the car is still running and a few minutes later it turns itself off... that is what it's all about

-Jason
------------------------------------------------------------------------


You should really drive a honda civic:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

When deciding if you need to "turbo-time" your engine, use some common sense. If you've just accelerated very hard or driven in a spirited manner before parking, then yeah, you probably ought let the car idle for 30 seconds or so before shutting it off.

Likewise, if you haven't "gotten on it" for the past minute or so, there's really no reason to spend too much time cooling the car by sitting there idling.

If you find yourself frequently driving hard right before you park and the time sitting in the driver seat letting it cool down while parked is inconvenient to you, then a turbo timer is probably a worthwhile mod for you. It's certainly not a necessity.

Originally posted by Chuck H
Not true. The alternator gets harder to turn based on the amount of current it needs to provide to the battery. I've never tried it in my WRX, but in my Neon, I can actually feel the idle speed drop slightly when I turn on the rear defroster because it's such a big electrical load.

That said, however, I think the howstuffworks calculation is a total load of rubbish. They're talking about 1-2 gallons of gas per car per year. You could easily save more gas than that by just inflating your tires a couple of psi higher or never opening your windows when you drive.

the calculation is valid... they've employed nothing more than the law of conservation of energy and they've been very conservative on their estimates. Granted, saving 2 gallons of gas per year isn't much when you consider that if I fill my tank about once per week, i'll use up 700 gallons of gas...

It's not much, but it adds up. It's like people taking long showers and saying "it only used up an extra gallon of fresh water from the reservoir" but in reality with everybody doing it, the reservoir is being strained for capacity...

it doesn't make a big difference to an individual, but it makes a big difference to a nation of drivers.

what really sucks for turbo-car owners is when they park to old-fashioned way and leave the car in gear when they shut it off. i frequently park on hills, so i leave my trans in Reverse when i park.

this is another reason my friend could never put a TT on his Saab 900-T..must have car in Reverse to remove key(yes you could put it in R with teh clutch in, pull the key, then put it back into neutral and get out of the car..but thats too much work.)

the Turbo timer isnt only for turbo motors..some are considered Turbo/NA timers..
ive seen the damage of oil puddles in HOT cylinder heads..same hting as oil in ot turbos..it sludges up..and we all know sludgey oil is a nono for your engine. when i get my EJ20G swapped in, im definatly going to use a TT for the times i dont have time to sit in my car after hard driving..plus its a way to keep your car warm at Wawa while you run in to get your cup of morning coffee, and you can still lock your doors..just set it to 5 minutes.:lol:

Murray

one more thing..

speaking of Saabs..i believe old ones used a neat device to aid in cooling hte turbo. in the oil passage before the turbo was an accumulator with a calibrated spring inside..when the engine is running the oil PSI is greater than the tension of hte spring, so the cylinder fills with oil, but when the motor is shut off, there is no oil pressure, so the spring starts pushing the oil into(and out of) the turbo untill there is no more oil to go thru.
im not sure if this was a Saab thing, or just something my friends dad did to his old Saab turbo..(hes a strange man, he owns 5 saabs, only 3 run, and he has 2 spare motors)

Murray

If i were you, I'd get one... Its only 90 dollars for a APEX one... And it can reduce the chances of turbo damage.. so why risk it?.. :D

Here's my .02 cents.

If you plan on being stock then I personally believe that you dont need a turbo timer. But if your running higher boost then stock then it would be a very good idea to get a turbo timer.
Here's another thing to think about. Lets say your car has an alarm system, well you cant arm your car and walk away while the TT is still running. In this case, I wouldnt get a TT. I'd rather just sit in the car for 30 seconds.

I'd just like to throw this out there...

If you ride a motorcycle you will know how badly it heats up when you let it sit at idle for even a few minutes, and how quickly it cools down once you get moving again. I would think the same principal applies to cars and that the best way to cool down the engine is to drive a little easier the last couple of minutes before you park it. (probably why race cars take a cool down lap after a race instead of pulling into the pits to use a turbo timer :) If you do this then not using a turbo timer will probably prolong the life of your engine.

-anders

No one seems to be discussing the main, original reason for turbo timers... coking oil. I forget the exact theory of it all, but when oil boils (and worse when it cools fast, right?) it "cokes" ... it hardens.

There's oil lubricating our turbo. While this nifty water cooling system might reduce stress on the metals and construction, I do not get the feelings its a complete guard against coking. Even if a little oil cokes, over time it builds up and eventually you're getting a new turbo. (But, hey its always a reason to tell your wife you need to upgrade, right ;) ).

jason

p.s. Zyounker, your post is great heheheh ;)

Originally posted by THAI
Here's my .02 cents.

If you plan on being stock then I personally believe that you dont need a turbo timer. But if your running higher boost then stock then it would be a very good idea to get a turbo timer.
Here's another thing to think about. Lets say your car has an alarm system, well you cant arm your car and walk away while the TT is still running. In this case, I wouldnt get a TT. I'd rather just sit in the car for 30 seconds.


Well, actually you can.

You can modify the stock alarm system. Very easy.

You can get an aftermarket alarm that has a built in turbo timer. Not uncommon.


I must say THAI, you did sound quite authoritative :rolleyes:

jason