Hey guys, I need advice from the pros. I have to change my spark plugs, and the guy at the parts store told me to absoluteley put anti-seize on the plugs. Now, I've read in the past somewhere that it's a bad idea and that it'll make it more likeley to seize into an aluminum head.

I have a tube of Permatex Copper Anti-Seize. It says on the back that it has graphite in it. This is what I've read makes them seize in there. Now I went and bought a tube of regular Permatex Anti-Seize. It doesn't say ingredients so I looked up the website and the info for this stuff says "The product contains a refined blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants that can be used on slow moving parts." Uncle Scotty says no to graphite, that I know from this thread - here (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=730240&highlight=anti-seize+aluminum+head)

WTF am I supposed to use? I don't feel like paying for a new head due to misinformation. I need straight up facts from guys who know. Not people who heard from a friend of a friend who's uncle worked at a gm service place 50 years ago.

Also, how much should the torque be reduced when installing them again?

I apologize if this has been covered somewhere, I have been searching for a few days and have not come up with a definitive answer.

All I know is that I've used the silver Permatex stuff on every set of plugs i've done (a lot, I worked at an independent shop for a couple years) and have never had any problems with it. But if Uncle Scotty said it's a no-no, I might look into it myself 'cause his cocktail worked wonders in my tranny :)

The gurus must all be busy today eh?

The tightening torque for spark plugs is 15 ft-lb for UNlubed threads and the reduction factor is approximately 1/3 for lubed threads, or 10 ft-lb.

I will probably get flamed for saying this, but take the "specialist" and "guru" titles with a grain of salt; they are only a function of post count, not actual knowledge. Just read this board until you're blind and then you'll be able to tell who knows their stuff and who doesn't.

Regarding the anti-sieze, I use Permatex Anti-Sieze 133A--it has graphite in it but I didn't have any problems the last time I changed plugs.:confused:

Oh, I didn't mean "gurus" as in, nasioc titled gurus. I just meant gurus as in the literal meaning. People with the knowledge. :D I've been lurking for a year, and posting very little. I've read for so long some days that my eyes go blurry and I still don't know jack squat compared to the likes of uncle scotty, or unabomber. :lol:

Regarding the lubricant again - I can't find anything locally that doesn't have graphite in it. I tried to google some info on graphite making steel seize to aluminum and can't find anything saying either way.

Old school guys use a drop of oil from the dipstick on the spark plug threads, works great.

The main thing is whatever you use, don't overdo it...a little goes a long way.

Use the silver stuff from Permatex. While it might not be the "best" or 100% "correct", it damn sure works and I've used it on every motor I've futzed with over my 35 years of life and never had a seized plug. Sometimes people can overthink simple items....this is definately one of them.

Well, I admit this is probably one of those instances. I frequently overanalyze or overthink simple stuff like this. I just want to make damn sure I don't F up my favorite car ever. :D

I still can't find where I read the stuff about the copper anti-seize being a bad choice. I'll use the silver stuff I just bought.

Thanks unabomber, and everyone else. At the very least I suppose this will be info for others who think like me. :disco:

Oh, and thanks jk988 for the info also. I knew the standard torque wouldn't fly when you add a lubricant.

....d0000ds....:D

graphite and aluminum are a very corrosive mix....using a graphite pencil when marking aluminum parts on aircraft is bad juju....and I have seen the results of using graphite anti seize on fasteners going through aluminum parts.

lets just say that it would not be a good idea to use graphite with aluminum heads as the threads may become a bit less permanent ;)


...there are some nickle based antiseize as well as others that have no graphite for just this reason ;)

Where do I buy? Now it's Memorial Day, and everywhere is probably closed. :-(

Why does the permatex package say it's good for "spark plug threads when installed into aluminum heads". Maybe they're just mislabeling their packaging? Maybe they just don't know as much as uncle scotty! :D I also read this on wiki, so why the H would they market a product that would in fact do the opposite of what they say?

The permatex nickle product description also says this -
"PRODUCT DESCRIPTION S.I.N.: 834-300 Permatex Nickel Anti-Seize Lubricant is a high temperature, high quality, heavy duty lubricant that resists galling and corrosion and reduces wear in heavy pressure applications. It contains tenacious metals, oils and graphite materials that cannot be burned away or removed by slow moving parts."

So now the question is what other brand is there and where can I get it? lol

I work as a diesel truck mechanic. I just looked at the container of anti seize I swiped from work. Loctite marine grade anti seize. Good for -20 to 2400f. Probably chosen because the trucks and trailers see alot of exposure to salt in the winter. Has worked very well on the job.

I can't say I've ever heard of anyone having spark plugs seize in the heads due to use of anti-seize. Using straight, 100% graphite on aluminum may cause the issues that Uncle Scotty mentioned in that other thread, but that's not what we're talking about here. The empirical evidence of hundreds of thousands (millions?) of vehicles rolling around with plugs lubed with off-the-shelf anti-seize (all of which contains graphite, as renegade already found) without any problems tells me this is a non-issue.

Pat Olsen

I'm starting to think that myself. It seems pretty stupid of Permatex to label their product for something that would completeley ruin someone's engine. And at the same time, that's all there is in stores near me. I was able to find a "Loctite anti-seize stick" however.

And I just checked the MSDS for said anti-seize stick, it says it contains 10-30% graphite. F! Oh well, I guess like it has been said before some people just overthink things and perhaps I'll just say screw it and use the original stuff.

Use the silver stuff from Permatex. While it might not be the "best" or 100% "correct", it damn sure works and I've used it on every motor I've futzed with over my 35 years of life and never had a seized plug. Sometimes people can overthink simple items....this is definately one of them.

Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant, p/n #133A.

Never had a problem with using it with any parts, including in aluminum heads, intakes, etc.

Just for kicks, P.M. Jamie (SubieGal) and see what she, or her "wrenches" use on her cars. My guess is that she changes more plugs during race season than any of us do during the life of our cars. RP

Use the silver stuff from Permatex. While it might not be the "best" or 100% "correct", it damn sure works and I've used it on every motor I've futzed with over my 35 years of life and never had a seized plug. Sometimes people can overthink simple items....this is definately one of them.

I totally agree. I've used the silver Permatex stuff (or whatever kind is laying around someone else's garage at the time) for 10 years on aluminum heads for all kinds of cars. Anti-seize is my best friend in the garage, heh.