http://www.drivingsportsvideo.com/subiesport/2008_impreza_sd.jpg

2008 Impreza: Facts, not opinions.
By: Ryan Douthit, Subiesport Magazine (http://www.subiesport.com)

Related Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP6s8VhayVk

At last we had a chance to test drive the 2008 Subaru Impreza. What do we think of it? Unfortunately, you’ll have to wait until August for our driving impression, which will be available at Subiesport.com (http://www.subiesport.com). The in-depth review will appear in an upcoming print edition of the magazine. In the meanwhile, we have some solid facts we wanted to share with you about this new car.

First, the automatic transmission is new. Out with the 4EAT, in with the ACT-4 with Sportshift. When asked, Subaru claimed the new transmission was lighter than the 5EAT, performed better than the 4EAT and was a cost effective solution. For manual-tranny fans, the 5MT has received some additional improvements, though these are evolutionary design changes.

The motor, too, is new to the Impreza. Basically it’s a Subaru Legacy GT 2.5 flat-4 with a Mitsubishi TD04 turbo. According to Subaru engineers any current LGT turbo should fit the plumbing no problem. VF40 upgrade anyone?

Moving to the back, there are even more fresh changes. The rear suspension is now a sophisticated double-wishbone configuration. This opens up trunk space and, “enhances driving dynamics.” For buyers looking to immediately upgrade to coilovers, the market will need time to respond to this new design. The 2007 coilovers simply will not fit.

In addition to a new suspension setup, the car is also riding on a longer wheelbase. This adds greater legroom for both front and backseat occupants.

Gone is the rear limited-slip differential in the WRX. Instead Subaru chose to focus on the Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC), standard on the WRX, and an option on the non-turbo 2.5i. Again, we asked the Subaru engineers if the 2007 differentials will work in the new chassis, and they said it should be an easy installation, if someone was so inclined.

The stereo is trick. The optional navigation system will play DVDs (when the handbrake is engaged, of course), or your choice of video when plugged into the RCA jacks located in the elbow rest. Otherwise, it is very similar to the navigation system previously available in the 2007 Tribeca and other upscale Subaru models.

There is a whole laundry list of new features designed to create a more enjoyable driving experience. Pricing has not been officially announced, but it was suggested that pricing will be similar to the outgoing 2007 models. The 2008’s will be available near the end of August.

good stuff... except for maybe the focus on vdc... I thought that wasn't available on 5mt subarus. I guess either I was wrong or the 5mt will have open diffs.

Finally a cool stereo!

So the rear diff is open now? Why would they do that? :mad:

good stuff... except for maybe the focus on vdc... I thought that wasn't available on 5mt subarus. I guess either I was wrong or the 5mt will have open diffs.

I asked about VDC on the 5MT and the reply was "Yes, the 5-speed also has VDC." Since I didn't think that was possible, I apparently need to do more reading on this.

Ryan Douthit, Publisher
Subiesport Magazine
http://www.subiesport.com

ricochet,
by what you said about the turbo upgrading, does that mean we will be limited to what we can upgrade because of space?

ricochet,
by what you said about the turbo upgrading, does that mean we will be limited to what we can upgrade because of space?

So long as it fits in the Legacy, it should fit on the new Impreza. Of course, that's just based on information, and not based on real-world application. Your mileage may vary. ;)

I think the addition of VDC is going to be good for this car, hopefully the crash rates will decrease, thus lowering the insurance costs for the 08 model. Although I am not sure how well the VDC system will work without the LSD in the rear. My mom has a 3.0R wagon with VDC, I am really impressed how that thing handles on the occasional freeway on ramp.

I just moved half of my belongings to my new house in my little 03 TS. Any thoughts or numbers on the interior cargo space in this hatch version? Bigger wheelbase and more rear legroom should equal quite a bit more cargo capacity, right?

Ryan,

When I talked to a SPT rep at the Wicked Big Meet he said the new turbo is Mitsubishi but has never been used before. The TD04 does not point upward like the VF40 or VF46.

Did they say TD04?

wishbone suspension for the win...I would like to know how hard it would be to convert the frontend to a bugeye.....other than that the car is pretty sweet...but my views may change once it hits the market in August and I see it in person...

-kovy

i want that ACT-4 in my bugeye! :furious:

What's the ACT-4 acronym stand for? I can infer every letter but the "C". :)

So the rear diff is open now? Why would they do that? :mad:

haha, so the owners of the new corrola S, oops I mean WRX don't get over confident and street race. :lol:

At least they are using a double wishbone suspension, if anybody has ever been behind the wheel of a vehicle using all wheel idwbs it handles like it's on rails.

What's the ACT-4 acronym stand for? I can infer every letter but the "C". :)


it stands for Automatic's are Crap Transmission.


real people drive manual. ^^

TD04? Not again. All the articles a month ago pointed to a larger turbo. No LSD either...I hope that VDC really works.

wait ti'll august ghey..

it stands for Automatic's are Crap Transmission.


real people drive manual. ^^

Thanks for the informative and helpful post NOOB :rolleyes:

it stands for Automatic's are Crap Transmission.


real people drive manual. ^^

HAHA!!!:lol: niicee.....i like your style...:devil:

it stands for Automatic's are Crap Transmission.


real people drive manual. ^^

+1 :devil:

+ 1 for the wishbone suspension. I would love to test drive one. But very disappointed about the removal of the rear lsd. It seems that now, car manufacturers are going cheap on a lot of parts that make the cars great in the first place (notice the wallet size intercooler). Oh well we will have to wait to see what happens.

So the rear diff is open now? Why would they do that? :mad:

Even if it is, trust me, you won't notice. This last winter there was no difference between how my RS (open rear diff) and the WRX drove on snow/ice. And they both are identical when I practice rallying in the dirt.

The MY07 and MY08 Outback XT 5 speed cars have VDC so it can work with the manual. The limited slip shoulnt have much effect on it as long as the VDC is turned on. Once it is off you will be spinning the inside rear like the older(ie 98)2.5RS. My only real concern with VDC is the ability to turn it off and leave it off. The old systems would automaticlly turn back on when road speeds were over 38 mph. Ive been told that the perfomance cars(ie Spec B and 3.0R Legacy) dont turn back on until the car is shut off.

With an aftermarket (read: not chrome) grill, that thing won't look half-bad.....

Ryan,

When I talked to a SPT rep at the Wicked Big Meet he said the new turbo is Mitsubishi but has never been used before. The TD04 does not point upward like the VF40 or VF46.

Did they say TD04?

Yes, I was told, specifically, the Mitsubishi TD04 with a max boost of 11.9psi. That was as of last Thursday.

All of the facts in this report are either from the press kit or answers to specific questions from Subaru engineers or product reps.

hahaha can't wait to laugh at the 08+ owners. hahaha :lol: Def. not a REAL Subaru...

Well not a big fan of the body design, however I'm curious about how the double wishbone will ride. Might have to arrange a test drive. Nice pic though...is that down at Carillon Point?

...is that down at Carillon Point?

Close... La Jolla, San Diego, Ca. :p

I just moved half of my belongings to my new house in my little 03 TS. Any thoughts or numbers on the interior cargo space in this hatch version? Bigger wheelbase and more rear legroom should equal quite a bit more cargo capacity, right?
umm maybe you should buy a truck.
Man subaru has gone to crap, hope they straighten out in the next few years,friggin toyota.

Haha, yea not to far from Kirkland :p The fire lane and the cement pillars there reminded me of the CP turnaround. Should have known that it wasnt...it's sunny in the pic.

Even if it is, trust me, you won't notice. This last winter there was no difference between how my RS (open rear diff) and the WRX drove on snow/ice. And they both are identical when I practice rallying in the dirt.

I tend to agree. Tires > LSD on snow and ice. I'm anxious to see the car in person, as I'm in the minority thinking that the pictures look to be an improvement in terms of styling.

im starting to like it

bleh.. the car is still ugly as sin in person.

im just gna get an evo now.

Yes, I was told, specifically, the Mitsubishi TD04 with a max boost of 11.9psi. That was as of last Thursday.

All of the facts in this report are either from the press kit or answers to specific questions from Subaru engineers or product reps.

Well that is unfortunate, wont make the great Stage 2 numbers like the LGT.

It has to have VDC to meet federal standards. So they traded the cost of the LSD for it. Good move given the constraints of a federal regulation and cost.

Still think the MS3 is going to kick it's butt in 90% of the circumstances, though.

:D The gauges sweep and light up red...very nice!

I asked about VDC on the 5MT and the reply was "Yes, the 5-speed also has VDC." Since I didn't think that was possible, I apparently need to do more reading on this.

Ryan Douthit, Publisher
Subiesport Magazine
http://www.subiesport.com

Is there an off switch for the VDC?

Is there an off switch for the VDC?

Yes, there is an "off" switch.

Yes, there is an "off" switch.


;) Thank you.

at least there are some turbo options for this setup already. Tdc has been making an 18g for the legacys at about 600 or 700 with the exchange of your stock turbo.

No rear LSD? A nanny VDC running in the backround? Bland (ugly) stlying? Plastic intake manifold? Plastic Intercooler end tanks?

No thanks.. no thank you at all. ill pass on this one.

thankfully i live outside the US and will be purchasing the JDM models!!! the new US federal regulations are ruining great cars :mad: . dont get me wrong i love the states, i just hate what the government is doing!!!

I really dont care much bout snow or gravel.. i worry about tarmac performance which is what we use the wrx for 99% of the time. Open Diff = funky handling characteristics... trust me, i had the 03 evo with an open front diff... mundo uncool.. even with the electronic wizadry of the evo..
Open diff in rear may hurt the initial acceleration of the car too..


What are the operating parameters/inputs to the VDC ? What is the output (cut engine power, electronic braking etc..)?

at least there are some turbo options for this setup already. Tdc has been making an 18g for the legacys at about 600 or 700 with the exchange of your stock turbo.

Except the VF40 is not on the 08 WRX so that 18G step up isnt available, and the VF40/18G doesnt net much power increase but it does allow people get upgrade turbos w/o changing manifolds.

What are the operating parameters/inputs to the VDC ? What is the output (cut engine power, electronic braking etc..)?

Adjusts torque split on the fly, applies individual brakes and decreases engine power as necessary.

From: http://www.subaru.com/sub/misc/coretech/index.html

The VDC could be the result of the crash safety people saying nothing was going to ever get a 5-star rating after 2009(?) without having some kind of active traction control. Mechanical Diffs didn't count.

I'd like to officially start the rumor that the STi will be a 3dr hatchback (wishful thinking on my part).

hahaha, i love how you guys played a video of the old GL hatch commercial in the new one :)

I've made a lot of comments about how its been about 20 years since they had a hatch. im kinda glad they made one again.

02-05 Values will begin to increase :D . Sounds good to me. I'm sure there will be some great advantages with the 08, but it just doesn't carry the Subaru tradition :( . We will definately see come late August.

hahaha can't wait to laugh at the 08+ owners. hahaha :lol: Def. not a REAL Subaru...

how do you conclude this? not ALL subarus have rear limited slips, but still do fine.. the tribecas VDC is great and seems to work just like having a limited slip on the rollers

Facts?

Well, at least the facts pertaining to the turbo are wrong. If it's a TD04, no leggy turbo is going to fit as an upgrade. Unpossible!

That was probably a PR person without any idea as to what they're talking about.

I would gladly pay an extra 500-1000 bucks to have LSD in there. Hopefully the STI won't let me down....

02-05 Values will begin to increase :D . Sounds good to me. I'm sure there will be some great advantages with the 08, but it just doesn't carry the Subaru tradition :( . We will definately see come late August.

Erm I doubt that. Besides, you ever hear about those Subaru's made before 02? You know the gc/gm's that actually are holding value? ;)

Facts?

Well, at least the facts pertaining to the turbo are wrong. If it's a TD04, no leggy turbo is going to fit as an upgrade. Unpossible!

That was probably a PR person without any idea as to what they're talking about.

This was my question to the head of engineering from FHI for the 2008 Impreza: "Can someone remove the stock turbo in the 2008 Impreza and replace it with a Legacy turbo without any modification to the plumbing."

Answer (after discussing with his FHI engineering colleagues in Japanese): "Yes, you can do that."

You must be right. I'm sure he has no idea what he's talking about.

The new imprezas looks really nice.

there are td06-18g 8cm, 7cm housing LGT specific turbos as well as td06-20g's they just cost BANK. 1550 for the 18g 1650 for the 20g to be lgt specific housing.

Deadbolt sells them for more, TDC sells them around those prices, and a few others. Not worth it IMO just get a fmic and use the older style turbos.

This was my question to the head of engineering from FHI for the 2008 Impreza: "Can someone remove the stock turbo in the 2008 Impreza and replace it with a Legacy turbo without any modification to the plumbing."

Answer (after discussing with his FHI engineering colleagues in Japanese): "Yes, you can do that."

You must be right. I'm sure he has no idea what he's talking about.
He is right you could do that because the 08 WRX uses the LGT intercooler, manifold etc and the new turbo has a vertical IC inlet. The WRX TD04 right now does not, it has a side inlet. The LGT requires a manifold and intercooler swap in order to fit any WRX/STi based turbo (20G, etc).

Facts?

Well, at least the facts pertaining to the turbo are wrong. If it's a TD04, no leggy turbo is going to fit as an upgrade. Unpossible!

That was probably a PR person without any idea as to what they're talking about.
The current TD04 and the 08 TD04 have different cold-sides, the new one points up to mate to the LGT intercooler.

This was my question to the head of engineering from FHI for the 2008 Impreza: "Can someone remove the stock turbo in the 2008 Impreza and replace it with a Legacy turbo without any modification to the plumbing."

Answer (after discussing with his FHI engineering colleagues in Japanese): "Yes, you can do that."

You must be right. I'm sure he has no idea what he's talking about.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Christ those tail lights look like GARBAGE!

He is right you could do that because the 08 WRX uses the LGT intercooler, manifold etc and the new turbo has a vertical IC inlet. The WRX TD04 right now does not, it has a side inlet. The LGT requires a manifold and intercooler swap in order to fit any WRX/STi based turbo (20G, etc).


The current TD04 and the 08 TD04 have different cold-sides, the new one points up to mate to the LGT intercooler.

Link to this info? We've seen this "new" TD04?

This was my question to the head of engineering from FHI for the 2008 Impreza: "Can someone remove the stock turbo in the 2008 Impreza and replace it with a Legacy turbo without any modification to the plumbing."

Answer (after discussing with his FHI engineering colleagues in Japanese): "Yes, you can do that."

You must be right. I'm sure he has no idea what he's talking about.

You guys in the media are good at quoting out of context! My comment was about PR people, not "heads of engineering". :lol:

So we're not talking about a carry-over 13T from 02-current WRX's.

If there is some new TD04 with VF40/etc. style housings, it would certainly be something different. I gotta say, with the VF40 already in the older LGT, making similar power...why changover a TD04 to the LGT layout? Anything, internally that is, about the VF that is more expensive than the 13T?

Sidenote:

Don't put too much stock in Subaru's "official" word. They're still tellling us the WRX will have LGT brakes.

Link to this info? We've seen this "new" TD04?

The LGT intercooler inlet points down, the VF40 inlet points up. The new 08 WRX turbo points UP as well. I saw it with my own eyes, the new turbo connects to the intercooler in an upward position.

THIS IS A LEGACY VF40, notice the cold side points UP.
http://www.boostplanet.com/images/vf40.JPG

THIS IS A 02-07 WRX TD04, notice the cold side points to the side.
http://www.velocityfactor.net/wwwroot/Ebay/prodImages/TD04L-600.vim

sounds awsome. cant wait to see em on the street

The LGT intercooler inlet points down, the VF40 inlet points up. The new 08 WRX turbo points UP as well. I saw it with my own eyes, the new turbo connects to the intercooler in an upward position.

THIS IS A LEGACY VF40, notice the cold side points UP.

THIS IS A 02-07 WRX TD04, notice the cold side points to the side.



:confused:

Yes, of course, we all know this. That's the point.

That's not what I was asking. Which way were you expecting to see the 08's turbo facing given the intercooler it was running??? :lol:

Just seems odd that they would rework the TD04 instead of going with the existing VF's, especialyl considering the 40's extremely close size to the TD04 currently in the WRX. I was lookign to see if, besides this thread, any one had seen a marked TD04 in the 08 as opposed to a "turbo pointing upwards" in an 08.

You guys in the media are good at quoting out of context! My comment was about PR people, not "heads of engineering". :lol:

In time you may learn that when we (Subiesport) present something as a fact, you can figure it came from a reliably informed source. Opinions or guesses are either presented as conditional statements or noted as not being from a reliable source. And yes, PR doesn't count as a "reliably informed." (Sorry Jessica! :lol:)

Fugly!

:confused:

Yes, of course, we all know this. That's the point.

That's not what I was asking.

You asked "we've seen this new TD04?" and i have responded, yes i did see it and here is the reasoning behind why it is a different turbo.

If it is indeed a TD04 it is not the same as before since the cold-side is different.

Could it be a different turbo all together? Could, but i doubt they would lie (or be uninformed) to SubieSport.

But its possible. They do underrate the engine big time.

You asked "we've seen this new TD04?" and i have responded, yes i did see it and here is the reasoning behind why it is a different turbo.

If it is indeed a TD04 it is not the same as before since the cold-side is different. .

:confused: Again.

You don't need to tell me/show me this (bolded part). This was exactly what I said in my first post. I was just a little taken back by you attempting to explain the very same difference I was pointing out.

We are all aware of the orientation of the 02-07 13T and what the orientation of the LGT turbo/08 WRX is.

I was looking for a link, besides this one, or proof-positive that the turbo you saw was a TD04.


We've known for many many months now that the WRX will be using a VF40 style orientation in the car....back from when the first spy-shots came out.

You were stating that you saw it facing upwards as if anyone was doubting that it was! Of course it is! It would have to.

I'm trying to figure out what to think about this car and have been doing so for months now. Are we all so furious because it isn't as quirky and funny looking as the Subies we've all grown to love? Maybe it's becoming too mainstream and Mazda/Toyota'ish and that's the problem here. The best way I've heard this car described is that it's been neutered. Imagine it without the hideous tail lights, the chrome grille, and with bulging fender flares like the previous cars, and it would still be pretty badass. Oh well. :furious:

In Japan, while the turbo configuration is the same as the JDM Legacy GT twinscroll, the actual unit is slightly different. I think it's a bit smaller internally, won't know till it has been pulled apart. My feeling is that SOA is going to go with a smaller, higher-response turbocharger based around the Legacy GT turbo design in America. As they are trying to position it at a different position in the lineup with less power, that would make sense.

But again, till it has been pulled apart it is hard to say. The good news is that there are bolt-in replacement turbochargers available from a few sources that were willing to support the Legacy GT market.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

^^^ Hopefully, our market for cheap(ish) turbo upgrades will increase with this information...benefitting both LGT owners and WRX owners alike.

A VF40 in a WRX isn't really an upgrade. The newer LGT's VF is definately worth while though! So we got that going for us.

I really hope the STi follwing the same configuration change. If it doesn't, the majority of teh aftermarket will stay with the STi and the WRX/LGT guys will be left again with expensive/harder to find parts.

-1 For TD04

Subies are in a downward spiral as far as looks go.

That thing looks like a mazda and a civic had one too many and engaged in unprotected humping.

I'll stick to my 02 and ride it out... hopefully something better looking is on the horizon.

Does it really matter which way the coldside points? cant you just reclock the turbo to faace in the directon you need? Maybe thats only hotside....

I dont understand the no lsd though. The people who like to straight line race their wrx's arent going to be pleased with that..and the smaller turbo...it seems as though subaru wants to widen the distance between the Sti and WRX

Think ill hold on to my 02 for a very long time now.... I read an article about the new wrx/sti's coming out and i was not really impressed. Doesnt look as if ill be interested in the new ones at all. Hurray for bugeyes!!!! By the way, lol i just spent 16 bux at wal-mart on a transformer called Ricochet, lol. Hes a WRX! im such a nerd :lol:

I dont understand the no lsd though. The people who like to straight line race their wrx's arent going to be pleased with that..and the smaller turbo...it seems as though subaru wants to widen the distance between the Sti and WRXYou realize that a viscous rear LSD does absolutely nothing on pavement in a straight line on a Subaru.. right? People who still want them (as useless as they are) can swap in a junkyard diff.

doesnt seem to bad, i dont know about the hatch back though, and the fact the signature hoodscoop is not like the legacy's

Man, Subaru really screwed the pooch with this car. I HATE HATE HATE it. For real though, now it has no LSD?! I don't care if this thing ran 11s out of the box or something, id still never even consider one. Oh well, 2005: RIP the last good looking Impreza :(

so they really didnt do anything to make the 5-speed stronger ? . i liek the interior of the new wrx tho . This car is going to have some stiff competition with the mazdaspeed3 already on sale and the caliber SRt-4 going on sale in sep. i hope this wrx puts out some good performance numbers.

[QUOTE=Snow Drift;18530391]He is right you could do that because the 08 WRX uses the LGT intercooler, manifold etc and the new turbo has a vertical IC inlet. The WRX TD04 right now does not, it has a side inlet. The LGT requires a manifold and intercooler swap in order to fit any WRX/STi based turbo (20G, etc).

Not true. All you need is a fmic that is made to work w/ a WRX style turbo that mates up to the LGT throttle body. There are 2 of these already out for the legacy gt.

Perrin and MTS

I think a great option is Hard Plastic Trunk liner with Rear Backing R seats.
Like the matrix!

That would be cool.

No LSD?

!!!

As i get the JDM models, i really hope they still have some differential brake/lock. When driving in deep snow/sand/mud you really need those. I have VDC and LSD on my current JDM Outback 2006.
It doesn't matter that much if it is viscous or electrical controlled as long as it works.
Look at the new Saab XWD which is the first car to use a Haldex clutchpack set-up that really works. It is Haldex gen.4 AND it has a electronically controlled differential brake.

So does that mean for sure that the car a 5 speed WRX Sedan will not have a front or rear LSD? I'm not really sure it would make a huge difference on the street but for the autocross guys, that may make things worse. Oh yeah and you guys in the Snow. I guess its not asymmetrical if it doesn't have at least 1 LSD is it?

OK, First off i'd like to say i'm getting used to the looks, but still can't see myself buying one, It's just not agressive enough for me.The optional grill does wonders, and the taillight photochops are a nice improvement also. But It's just not hot enough a hatch for my single self. Reading about VDC and the new suspension my questions are:

1. dow does this thing behave trying to get it sideways? open diff wtf??
2. in layman's terms, what are benefits of say the new rear suspension vs. agood aftermarket set-up on the current WRX?
3. is there any difference mechanically between the sedan and the hatch?
4. will STi/SPT produce goodies for the sedan ie deck spoilers and such?


some of this is probably addressed in the article, but maybe it isn't. thanks

I can only answer that the new rear suspension should be better, well at least in theory, and prob after new springs. Were not going to know anything until the maga are out. I just hope there are tests this month. The sedan is growing on me also, let just all take a second to pray that's its as good a car as it is ugly.

I think a great option is Hard Plastic Trunk liner with Rear Backing R seats.
Like the matrix!

That would be cool.


They have the option for the 08s in Japan, so I would think it would carry over to the US:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/darknightohio/2008parts.jpg

I'm not really sure it would make a huge difference on the street but for the autocross guys, that may make things worse.As an autocross guy.. I can assure you that it won't change a thing. By the time a rear diff on a subaru spins enough to start locking up on pavement, enough weight has shifted to the rear to plant both rear wheels squarely on the ground. High powered WRXs often spin the inside front.. spinning the inside rear only happens when you've got a really bad suspension setup that lifts the rear wheel way too much.Oh yeah and you guys in the Snow. I guess its not asymmetrical if it doesn't have at least 1 LSD is it?Well, it still has the center LSD... and it's still got equal length drive shafts front and rear. :confused:

Wait! 'asymmetrical'?? :huh:

As was mentioned by erito, the viscous rear diff only does anything in thick muck. In the snow it makes the rear end a little more twitchy if you drive like a moron.. which explains why they'd prefer to do without it when coupled with VDC in a vehicle historically prone to ugly crashes in the hands of novice drivers.

The STi is the only Subaru to come with a front LSD.

Good write-up. I think we're all looking forward to the driving review.

I love the rear LSD. Where the MB, Volvo and other open-diff cars get stuck, i usually pull them out :)
VDC is good for safety, but diff-brake/lock is sometimes very important to get out of tricky muck/slush/snow/ice.

on tarmac, i don't care about front LSD or rear LSD.

http://www.drivingsportsvideo.com/subiesport/2008_impreza_sd.jpg

2008 Impreza: Facts, not opinions.
By: Ryan Douthit, Subiesport Magazine (http://www.subiesport.com)

Related Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP6s8VhayVk

At last we had a chance to test drive the 2008 Subaru Impreza. What do we think of it? Unfortunately, you’ll have to wait until August for our driving impression, which will be available at Subiesport.com (http://www.subiesport.com). The in-depth review will appear in an upcoming print edition of the magazine. In the meanwhile, we have some solid facts we wanted to share with you about this new car.

First, the automatic transmission is new. Out with the 4EAT, in with the ACT-4 with Sportshift. When asked, Subaru claimed the new transmission was lighter than the 5EAT, performed better than the 4EAT and was a cost effective solution. For manual-tranny fans, the 5MT has received some additional improvements, though these are evolutionary design changes.

The motor, too, is new to the Impreza. Basically it’s a Subaru Legacy GT 2.5 flat-4 with a Mitsubishi TD04 turbo. According to Subaru engineers any current LGT turbo should fit the plumbing no problem. VF40 upgrade anyone?

Moving to the back, there are even more fresh changes. The rear suspension is now a sophisticated double-wishbone configuration. This opens up trunk space and, “enhances driving dynamics.” For buyers looking to immediately upgrade to coilovers, the market will need time to respond to this new design. The 2007 coilovers simply will not fit.

In addition to a new suspension setup, the car is also riding on a longer wheelbase. This adds greater legroom for both front and backseat occupants.

Gone is the rear limited-slip differential in the WRX. Instead Subaru chose to focus on the Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC), standard on the WRX, and an option on the non-turbo 2.5i. Again, we asked the Subaru engineers if the 2007 differentials will work in the new chassis, and they said it should be an easy installation, if someone was so inclined.

The stereo is trick. The optional navigation system will play DVDs (when the handbrake is engaged, of course), or your choice of video when plugged into the RCA jacks located in the elbow rest. Otherwise, it is very similar to the navigation system previously available in the 2007 Tribeca and other upscale Subaru models.

There is a whole laundry list of new features designed to create a more enjoyable driving experience. Pricing has not been officially announced, but it was suggested that pricing will be similar to the outgoing 2007 models. The 2008’s will be available near the end of August.


ummm...guys....the 05-07 Legacy Suspension is the SAME....AFAIK...so coilovers from the current Leggy "should" bolt right up..;)

Bill

From what I understand the front is the same, but the rear is a new compact design.

umm maybe you should buy a truck.


The point is that my TS has a lot of room inside. Just curious about the capacity of the new car. If I wanted a truck, I wouldn't be here. :rolleyes:

ummm...guys....the 05-07 Legacy Suspension is the SAME....AFAIK...so coilovers from the current Leggy "should" bolt right up..;)

Bill
Incorrect.

The FRONT suspension is the same/similar to the Legacy. The REAR suspension is actually closer related to the Tribeca. See this thread for more information:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1240466

Oh, as for the Open rear diff... As someone who has had an Impreza with ALL open diffs and one with rear AND front LSD's, I have to say its not a big deal to have all open diff's. I actually found the handling more "neutral" with the open diffs versus having the rear LSD without a front LSD.

Oh, as for the Open rear diff... As someone who has had an Impreza with ALL open diffs and one with rear AND front LSD's, I have to say its not a big deal to have all open diff's. I actually found the handling more "neutral" with the open diffs versus having the rear LSD without a front LSD.

Quoted for truf.

Man, Subaru really screwed the pooch with this car. I HATE HATE HATE it. For real though, now it has no LSD?! I don't care if this thing ran 11s out of the box or something, id still never even consider one. Oh well, 2005: RIP the last good looking Impreza :(

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!

:rolleyes:

Not true. All you need is a fmic that is made to work w/ a WRX style turbo that mates up to the LGT throttle body. There are 2 of these already out for the legacy gt.

Perrin and MTS
yes, you can custom design anything to work. But if you dont have a 20G or bigger then you dont need a FMIC, you need an STI/WRX/FXT manifold and IC to fit most turbos.

Why hasn't anyone done this yet???

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/darknightohio/2008parts.jpg

http://www.stanleytools.com/catalog_images/mid_res/33-719_mid_res.jpg

Inside width, length with seats up, length with seat down.:mad:
Damn fools.:furious: :)

I've been holding hope on this car since the first I saw it because I kinda like the hatchback... But hearing that they dropped the LSD in favor of some lame traction control.............I give up..........

This is what I have on trunk dimensions:

Cargo volume, 5-door (seats up) 19.0 cubic feet.
Cargo width between wheel housings, 5-door: 42.0 inches.
Max load floor length, 5-door: (seats up) 31.7 inches, (seats down) 60.1 inches.

This is what I have on trunk dimensions:

Cargo volume, 5-door (seats up) 19.0 cubic feet.
Cargo width between wheel housings, 5-door: 42.0 inches.
Max load floor length, 5-door: (seats up) 31.7 inches, (seats down) 60.1 inches.

hmmm...the current wagon has 27.9 cubic feet (seats up) and 61.6 seats down.

Just went out and measured my 02 wagon:

36 inches wide between the rear strut towers. So 6 more inches in the '08.

36 inches max load floor length seats up. So just over 5 inches less in the '08.

58 inches max load floor length seats down. So just over 3 inches more in the '08.

i would prefer the rear LSD because i do heavy winter driving in the snow.. subarus should be good at that. thats one of the reasons they are so popular up here in the NE. can vsd really make up for that

With all these "cost savings" features the MSRP should be $21k for this thing.

can VDC really make up for that
Yes..

Yes..

Ok so VDC does transfer torque from side to side? It doesn't just brake the spinning wheel and reduce torque?

If it does transfer torque to anywhere, it is even better than front + rear + center LSD.

I have VDC and rear LSD on my current Outback and it is GREAT. Would it be as great without the rear LSD? Why on earth would they then put it in my car in the first place? :)

This is what I have on trunk dimensions:

Cargo volume, 5-door (seats up) 19.0 cubic feet.
Cargo width between wheel housings, 5-door: 42.0 inches.
Max load floor length, 5-door: (seats up) 31.7 inches, (seats down) 60.1 inches.

hmmm...the current wagon has 27.9 cubic feet (seats up) and 61.6 seats down.

Just went out and measured my 02 wagon:

36 inches wide between the rear strut towers. So 6 more inches in the '08.

36 inches max load floor length seats up. So just over 5 inches less in the '08.

58 inches max load floor length seats down. So just over 3 inches more in the '08.

The '08 loses 9 cubic feet of cargo space compared to the previous 5-door Impreza?:eek: :huh: :(
No wonder they've been so unforthcoming on numbers...

That's almost like losing the entire capacity of an '07 WRX sedan trunk.:eek:

I would get reverify the TD04 claim before you go to print. It just doesn't look like a TD04.

From this picture you can see the flange that bolts up to the intercooler uses the same 2 bolt pattern as on the IHI VF40. Also, the flange is in the same position relative to the turbo housing as a VF40. If you look even closer, you can see the brass tube that surrounds the neck of the VF40.

2008 WRX
http://home.comcast.net/~jrbarrette/DSC02137.JPG
IHI VF40
http://www.boostplanet.com/images/vf40.JPG
VF39 left - VF40 right
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/149/dsc03567fp4.jpg

This rules out a few possibilities. This turbo is not simply a reorientation of the "classic" MHI TD04 (if that were even possible) nor is it the same housing type.


The assumption now is that the TD04 is retooled to fit like a VF40. Not plausible for a few reasons, first the designation would not remain TD04. It would change to reflect the change in housing shape and size - otherwise the manufacturer would be running around with 2 different turbos under the same name which would be silly.

Second, even if it were retooled, it would be in such a way that the flange is not exactly the same as a VF40 (right down to fit and finish). It's indisputable that Mitsubishi heavy industries has different tooling equipment than IHI America.

Finally I'm almost positive that Subaru does not have so much clout to make MHI make a new turbo when they could go to IHI which already makes turbos in that style.

Conclusion: 90% chance the 2008 WRX is not housing a TD04. 33% chance its a VF40. 23% It's something entirely new. 33% its a VF46.

If anyone is willing to just climb in the engine bay with a flashlight and look at whats written on the turbo it will tell you, plain as day, what it is.

The '08 loses 9 cubic feet of cargo space compared to the previous 5-door Impreza?:eek: :huh: :(
No wonder they've been so unforthcoming on numbers...

That's almost like losing the entire capacity of an '07 WRX sedan trunk.:eek:

Yea, not too thrilled about that. Hopefully part of that is the top angle of the hatch which wasn't very useful anyway. looks like we will gain a little when both seats are down and hauling lots of gear. The tricky part will be when I am traveling with my two kids and have less room in the back with the seats up.

I think the addition of VDC is going to be good for this car, hopefully the crash rates will decrease, thus lowering the insurance costs for the 08 model. Although I am not sure how well the VDC system will work without the LSD in the rear. My mom has a 3.0R wagon with VDC, I am really impressed how that thing handles on the occasional freeway on ramp.

The ONLY vehicle with VDC, that comes with a rear Limited slip differential is the Legacy GT Spec-B. In fact that is the only vehicle till date, that came with a stick-shift and VDC.

All other vehicles with VDC, automatically have the rear LSD deleted. This includes the Outback VDC and all other models equipped with VDC, including your mom's 3.0R wagon, which comes with an open rear diff.

This is what I have on trunk dimensions:

Cargo volume, 5-door (seats up) 19.0 cubic feet.
Cargo width between wheel housings, 5-door: 42.0 inches.
Max load floor length, 5-door: (seats up) 31.7 inches, (seats down) 60.1 inches.

hmmm...the current wagon has 27.9 cubic feet (seats up) and 61.6 seats down.

Just went out and measured my 02 wagon:

36 inches wide between the rear strut towers. So 6 more inches in the '08.

36 inches max load floor length seats up. So just over 5 inches less in the '08.

58 inches max load floor length seats down. So just over 3 inches more in the '08.

That doesn't sound right. You cant loose almost 10 cubic feet from just an adjustment of a few inches. Especially when the new WRX roof line is higher and the body wider.

The ONLY vehicle with VDC, that comes with a rear Limited slip differential is the Legacy GT Spec-B. In fact that is the only vehicle till date, that came with a stick-shift and VDC.

All other vehicles with VDC, automatically have the rear LSD deleted. This includes the Outback VDC and all other models equipped with VDC, including your mom's 3.0R wagon, which comes with an open rear diff.

That might be true for US built models, but i have a Japan built 2006 Subaru Outback with 4EAT tranny and VDC and rear LSD.

Ok so VDC does transfer torque from side to side? It doesn't just brake the spinning wheel and reduce torque?



Most modern traction control systems brake the spinning wheel to transfer power. Open differentials always split torque 50/50.

The only one I can think of that doesn't is SH-AWD, and that uses a complex set of clutches to move power around.

Also VDC would work better without the rear LSD because wheel speed differences are easier to detect and the system, consequently, would be faster to react.

......

Most modern traction control systems brake the spinning wheel to transfer power. Open differentials always split torque 50/50.

The only one I can think of that doesn't is SH-AWD, and that uses a complex set of clutches to move power around.


But then how is it that the set up like Volvo XC has (among many others) is so crappy? When i compared my Outback with an brand new Volvo XC70 the Volvo was stuck, didn't make it up the hill (with snow and ice) and my Outback didn't bother at all, it just could go anywhere. Same ground-clearance, tires, etc.
The Volvo has open diffs and electronic traction control which brakes the spinning wheel.

Sure am glad I got an 07 Ltd Wgn. The new ride redefines phugly. Looks like a Hyundai knock-off of a MazdaSpeed 3. :furious:

That doesn't sound right. You cant loose almost 10 cubic feet from just an adjustment of a few inches. Especially when the new WRX roof line is higher and the body higher.

Well, those measurements were at the floor, and maybe the '08's seatbacks and walls taper up at angles that limit measurable cargo space compared to the old wagons?:confused:

But then how is it that the set up like Volvo XC has (among many others) is so crappy? When i compared my Outback with an brand new Volvo XC70 the Volvo was stuck, didn't make it up the hill (with snow and ice) and my Outback didn't bother at all, it just could go anywhere. Same ground-clearance, tires, etc.
The Volvo has open diffs and electronic traction control which brakes the spinning wheel.

A few reasons. The XC70 is way heavier, it's RWD biased (not symmetrical AWD), and electronic traction control systems reduce the usable torque nearly in half (because of the properties of open differentials).

Well, those measurements were at the floor, and maybe the '08's seatbacks and walls taper up at angles that limit measurable cargo space compared to the old wagons?:confused:

Note that capacity is with *the seats up*. And, since the seats are further back, it stands to reason that the capacity in that configuration would be less and has no bearing on the overall capacity which is undoubtedly greater.

Logic. It's what's for dinner.

I have VDC and rear LSD on my current Outback and it is GREAT. Would it be as great without the rear LSD? Why on earth would they then put it in my car in the first place? :)

I doubt the VDC Outback has the rear LSD. The VDC deletes the rear LSD and the ones with rear LSD, like the 07 Legacy GT, don't have the VDC.

That might be true for US built models, but i have a Japan built 2006 Subaru Outback with 4EAT tranny and VDC and rear LSD.

Know what the "NA" in NASIOC stands for ? :)

Note that capacity is with *the seats up*. And, since the seats are further back, it stands to reason that the capacity in that configuration would be less and has no bearing on the overall capacity which is undoubtedly greater.

Logic. It's what's for dinner.

Note that having two kids, and their required seating/safety equipment, pretty much dictates that your 5-door spends the vast bulk of its existence in the seats-up mode.

The increase in cabin room is welcome, but the decrease in every-day useable cargo space sucks rocks.

Logic. It's what's for dinner ... unless you have children.

Note that capacity is with *the seats up*. And, since the seats are further back, it stands to reason that the capacity in that configuration would be less and has no bearing on the overall capacity which is undoubtedly greater.

Logic. It's what's for dinner.

Yea, with seats down there is more room. When seats are up its a differenty story. As has been stated elsewhere the rear seat have been pushed back 3 inches and the total outside length of the hatch is just under 2 inches shorter. That seems to add up with the new numbers. Also the angle of the '08 hatch looks more severe then the wagon so you probably lose a few cubic feet there. In reality you have to be blocking up the rear window to be losing that space. That seems to happen with me only on full family camping trips.

Yea, with seats down there is more room. When seats are up its a differenty story. As has been stated elsewhere the rear seat have been pushed back 3 inches and the total outside length of the hatch is just under 2 inches shorter. That seems to add up with the new numbers. Also the angle of the '08 hatch looks more severe then the wagon so you probably lose a few cubic feet there. In reality you have to be blocking up the rear window to be losing that space. That seems to happen with me only on full family camping trips.

It'd be nice to see the "volume under the lid/retractable cover" numbers.:lol:

There is a whole laundry list of new features designed to create a more enjoyable driving experience.

Enjoyable?

Enjoyable is for old people. I want to be scared!!

After crunching some numbers if you subtract half a foot from a body that is 4 foot tall and 4 foot wide it comes out to about 6 and a half cubic feet. So it seems about right.

It'd be nice to see the "volume under the lid/retractable cover" numbers.:lol:


Yep. At least I don't have to worry about strollers anymore.:)

i dont know if it has been asked, but what will the cost be for the new imprezas? My understanding from reading this is, with the removal and change of parts (LSD is gone, TMIC is smaller, intake manifold is plastic...), but the chassis is bigger, will prices compared to the 07 imprezas be any different?

I would get reverify the TD04 claim before you go to print. It just doesn't look like a TD04.

From this picture you can see the flange that bolts up to the intercooler uses the same 2 bolt pattern as on the IHI VF40. Also, the flange is in the same position relative to the turbo housing as a VF40. If you look even closer, you can see the brass tube that surrounds the neck of the VF40.

2008 WRX

If anyone is willing to just climb in the engine bay with a flashlight and look at whats written on the turbo it will tell you, plain as day, what it is.
I was there at the Wicked Big Meet where that picture was taken (im 99% sure its from WBM). You could not read any writing on the Turbo, at least I dont recall seeing any. The SPT rep said it was a brand new turbo, never before used by Subaru.

I also trust Ryan that he *WAS* told it is a TD04.

Who is correct? Dunno, reps are wrong all the time. Both could be wrong, both could be right. Retooled TD04, or brand new.

Another comment that i recieved "The 08 WRX turbo is about the same size as the Legacy VF40/46, just running less boost."

So...is the TD04 anywhere near the same size as the VF40/46?

i dont know if it has been asked, but what will the cost be for the new imprezas? My understanding from reading this is, with the removal and change of parts (LSD is gone, TMIC is smaller, intake manifold is plastic...), but the chassis is bigger, will prices compared to the 07 imprezas be any different?
About the same price as the 07 models. That has been known since the NYIAS.

I don't see why it wouldn't be a TD04. So they had to use a new housing.... big deal, I don't see where the controversy is coming in here. The aftermarket has been mixing IHI and Mitsu turbos for a while now, so what is to stop FHI from adapting a VF40 housing to a TD04 or even making a new casting for a brand new model line.

Traditionally speaking, no two Subaru models have shared a turbo besides the Forester XT and the WRX, so why is it strange that the Legacy, WRX and in the Future, the STI will all have different turbos. What should be interesting here is that when the STI comes out, it will probably share the same engine/turb0/intercooler architecture, so the STI turbo will be bolt in on a WRX, or so I would assume.

Also, with the WRX going to the Legacy style turbo setup, it now means that aftermarket turbo manufacturers will start producing, at long last, larger turbos for this style of manifold/intercooler. Legacy fan bois rejoice.

I was there at the Wicked Big Meet where that picture was taken (im 99% sure its from WBM). You could not read any writing on the Turbo, at least I dont recall seeing any. The SPT rep said it was a brand new turbo, never before used by Subaru.

I also trust Ryan that he *WAS* told it is a TD04.

Who is correct? Dunno, reps are wrong all the time. Both could be wrong, both could be right. Retooled TD04, or brand new.

Another comment that i recieved "The 08 WRX turbo is about the same size as the Legacy VF40/46, just running less boost."

So...is the TD04 anywhere near the same size as the VF40/46?

I'm sure he was told TD04 as well. But with such strong evidence that it's not I would (if I worked for Subisport) try and find someone at SOA who will look it up for me and come back with an answer without giving it to me from memory.

The TD04 is noticeably smaller than the VF40

http://www.eftel.com/~mdignam/gallery/diggers%20car%2002.jpg

I'm almost positive it's not a retooled TD04. And yeah the other picture is from WBM.

I'm sure he was told TD04 as well. But with such strong evidence that it's not I would (if I worked for Subisport) try and find someone at SOA who will look it up for me and come back with an answer without giving it to me from memory.

The TD04 is noticeably smaller than the VF40

...

I'm almost positive it's not a retooled TD04. And yeah the other picture is from WBM.

The WBM car was an early pre-production car. Not necessarily final production specs. I have been asking Subaru of America about the turbo for months and they never gave me an answer because they said that FHI hadn't decided on that detail yet (if that's truth or fiction, only they know).

The TD04 information came from the FHI engineer as agreed upon with the product manager when I was on the test drive.

The only thing we can all agree on at this point is that we won't be absolutely certain until someone pulls one out of the car (the car I saw had no ID on the housing). Which, by my guess, will be no sooner than August. All other comments outside of what the FHI engineers told us are speculation at this point. Since FHI told us TD04, thats what we're assuming will be there until someone proves otherwise. Guess and theories of what could be there is really not getting us anywhere.

Ryan

okay, maby i am on the wrong forum, but i know i have VDC and a rear LSD on my 2006 Outback 2.5i auto.
But then again it is a JDM Outback. If electronic traction reduces usable torque by 50% or more, the LSD shouldn't have been left out. Or some differential lock should be added. Don't become another Hyundai/Volvo/Skoda setup 4x4 carmaker Subaru.. please :)

The WBM car was an early pre-production car. Not necessarily final production specs. I have been asking Subaru of America about the turbo for months and they never gave me an answer because they said that FHI hadn't decided on that detail yet (if that's truth or fiction, only they know).

The TD04 information came from the FHI engineer as agreed upon with the product manager when I was on the test drive.

The only thing we can all agree on at this point is that we won't be absolutely certain until someone pulls one out of the car (the car I saw had no ID on the housing). Which, by my guess, will be no sooner than August. All other comments outside of what the FHI engineers told us are speculation at this point. Since FHI told us TD04, thats what we're assuming will be there until someone proves otherwise. Guess and theories of what could be there is really not getting us anywhere.

Ryan

The thing is were not guessing here, there's solid evidence. Heres another photo (better) which shows the same turbo in WBM WRX in the WRX at NYIAS.

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jjl306/wrxengine3.jpg

I'm sure if someone with a legacy GT took the same angle picture of the VF40 turbo (possibly even the VF46) it would look exactly as in that picture.

If they told you it's going to be a TD04, by all means print it. But make sure you have a name behind that source because from what it looks like here it's not a TD04. You may even want to find out what kind of an engineer this guy was because I know that most FHI engineers 1) don't deal with the press and 2) don't know a word of english.

I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I just want the truth as much as you do.

In fact I can even see lettering on that turbo housing I just posted, so if someone at the show read what it said...

Even the coolant feed tube is in the same location as the VF40.

so with all this turbo talk being upgraded , anyone know if subaru upgraded the trans for this new subaru ? or will this trans be even weaker because of more power.

My Father's 2005 Outback 2.5XT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/D0WNxSH1ft/NYIAS07/DSC01152.jpg

2008 WRX at NYIAS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/D0WNxSH1ft/NYIAS07/DSC01110.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/D0WNxSH1ft/NYIAS07/DSC01109.jpg

From those pictures the wastgate actuator and coolant pipping match. Even more evidence that it's not a TD04 with a VF40 housing.

so with all this turbo talk being upgraded , anyone know if subaru upgraded the trans for this new subaru ? or will this trans be even weaker because of more power.

The transmission is different. Whether it's upgraded is a different story. The 4EAT is all new.

According to the SPT rep, the 5MT is a "Legacy transmission with WRX gears."

I sat and shifted and it felt like my WRX w/ STi short shifter kit (it had the kit too), it did *NOT* feel as smooth as my Father's Outback 2.5XT (butter smooth).

From those pictures the wastgate actuator and coolant pipping match. Even more evidence that it's not a TD04 with a VF40 housing.

You do know that a TD04 and VF39 look pretty much alike right? The actuator and coolant lines look alike too... I don't see how this is evidence. Besides, the car at WBM is a pre-production model, meaning, not the final product so any "evidence" taken from a pre-prod car isn't really evidence at all.

Nor is the auto tranny a 4eat. It is an entirely different kind of transmission. Just so we all have our facts straight.

The new turbo is a TD04 with a Legacy style compressor cover. Why are we doubting the veracity of what a Fuji Engineer says? I am confused.

Guys, you are all arguing over pre-production cars that were likely hand-made, and will be thrown in the crusher as soon as the PR life cycle is over. (we lost 6 Legacy S401s' that way). Such cars are usually made with whatever materials are on hand at the time. So the car at the NYAIS may have had an exact copy of the Legacy GT turbocharger because it was a Legacy GT turbocharger - borrowed to have the car show-ready. Auto shows are not engineering debuts, they are just to show the car existing. Much of the underskin bits are not necessarily final. Many details on a production car are not finished until literally a month before the actual debut.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

You do know that a TD04 and VF39 look pretty much alike right? The actuator and coolant lines look alike too... I don't see how this is evidence. Besides, the car at WBM is a pre-production model, meaning, not the final product so any "evidence" taken from a pre-prod car isn't really evidence at all.

Nor is the auto tranny a 4eat. It is an entirely different kind of transmission. Just so we all have our facts straight.

The new turbo is a TD04 with a Legacy style compressor cover. Why are we doubting the veracity of what a Fuji Engineer says? I am confused.

Thats great, but the VF40/VF46 looks nothing like a TD04 or an STi Turbo. And the coolant lines are not only fed differently, but they are routed differently in a TD04.

Lets assume the WBM WRX was pre-production, the car at NYIAS was production and comes with the same setup. The reality is the turbo on that car is the one that is going to ship with every other USDM WRX that comes out of the factory.

If your suggesting Subaru is tooling hybrid turbos, thats ridiculous. We both know that hybrids are piss poor solutions for boosted applications. If Subaru's intention was to stick with the TD04 there is absolutely no reason to switch intercoolers. In fact it borderline retarded to switch intercoolers so you can produce a hybrid turbo. Hybrids are for tunners who are to cheap to replace piping.

The reason we're doubting the engineer is because what he's telling you doesn't make sense. End of story.

And just because Subaru choose a new acronym doesn't mean it's not a 4eat.

It still has 4 speeds and is still an electronically actuated automatic transmission. 4EAT is a universal term not exclusive to Subaru.

right...

Ryan ordered me to be nice, despite my nasioc moniker, so I will leave this e-argument to the "gurus".

BTW, to help you guys out.

If the car you tested was significantly quicker than a current model WRX since they have the same frontal area and coefficient of drag, it's probably not a TD04.

If the car you tested was slower, again, it's probably not a TD04.

right...

Ryan ordered me to be nice, despite my nasioc moniker, so I will leave this e-argument to the "gurus".

Whatever, thats your prerogative. If I'm wrong, no one really cares and I've wasted about an hour of my time comparing photos and info. If subisport is wrong, it's a bitch and a half to have your readers call you on it and have to print a retraction (if you guys do that sort of stuff).

Wow that car, look and all is really starting to grow on me.

So with the VDC is the whole drifting thing out the door or can it be turned off??

wait ti'll august ghey..



Remember, SubieSport is a magazine... Trying to make money...

So with the VDC...can it be turned off??

Yes. "Off" button.

What is the advantage of having limited slip differentials front & rear versus open differentials front & rear as in this new WRX?

Remember, SubieSport is a magazine... Trying to make money...

It's called an embargo.

And just because Subaru choose a new acronym doesn't mean it's not a 4eat.

It still has 4 speeds and is still an electronically actuated automatic transmission. 4EAT is a universal term not exclusive to Subaru.

Exactly. Just because they renamed the 4EAT to something else, I wonder why we made the leap to assuming that the the innards are different ? It still has 4-speeds and is electronically controlled, just like any other econo-car Auto trans.

Hell, even the $14K Honda Fit comes with a 5EAT, let alone a Civic or an Accord which have had 5EATs for several years now.:rolleyes:

According to the SPT rep, the 5MT is a "Legacy transmission with WRX gears.".

i take it your talking about the 08 wrx ? why wouldnt they put the LGT gears in since the gears are the ones that fail lol .

:D The gauges sweep and light up red...very nice!

They "sweep" because they are servos motors and they need to calibrated.

They "sweep" because they are servos motors and they need to calibrated.

I wasn't complaining about it, I always thought the STi gauge sweep was cool :cool:

So with the VDC is the whole drifting thing out the door or can it be turned off??

For what i know the LSD can transfer power from the spinning side to the other side when combined with VDC.

1. Open diff=power always take the easiest way. If a wheel spin, all power will go to the spinning wheel. If you add traction control, the wheel will stop spin and the power will go the other way, but no more than 50%.

2. LSD=same as above, but when one wheel spin, the mechanism will transfer more than 50% power to the other wheel.


Hey guys, Subaru MUST have some sort of differential brake/lock on their new models right? If not, i will not be buying a new Subaru until they have. If i compare cars with and without, ALL the cars except the BMW got stuck i deep snow. Same clearance, same tires, same road, same day.
compared these: ( BMW x3, Kia Sportage, Hyundai SantaFe, Volvo XC70 and XC90, MB 4matic, Subaru Outback)

Oh, and i sometimes also turn off VDC for playing in the snow with sweet drifting and sometimes when REALLY deep snow, the VDC off gives you better traction (because of the rear LSD gets to work).

Does anyone notice the "plastic" intake manifold in the '08 WRX, i wonder how durable such an application will be after years of prolonged boost and/or aftermarket upgrades? Does this item enhance or retard performance?

Does anyone notice the "plastic" intake manifold in the '08 WRX, i wonder how durable such an application will be after years of prolonged boost and/or aftermarket upgrades? Does this item enhance or retard performance?

It is a PLUS in several ways plastic doesn't retain heat like metal does, makes a much smoother surface and is easier to engineer an optimal design.

As for longevity I can't imagine it being a problem. Subaru isn't the first to do this. Corvettes have had them for a decade as well as others i am sure.

Also the intercooler is not smaller it is square and has plastic ends so it appears smaller but is actually about the same.


Also this was supposed to be technical thread so could everyone please shut up about the looks. I hate reading through pages of people comparing it to This or That. Nobody gives a flying F#@& about your opinion it's looks. Go buy your EVO and let it fall apart on you we don't care.
We should have one place to voice your opinion on the looks so the rest of us can discuss and learn about important stuff.

i take it your talking about the 08 wrx ? why wouldnt they put the LGT gears in since the gears are the ones that fail lol .

The difference between LGT and WRX gears are the ratios.

If you beat the crap out of an LGT what makes you think those gears wouldn't break? :confused:

Did anyone mention the downgraded brakes on the new model?

I wonder why we made the leap to assuming that the the innards are different ? It still has 4-speeds and is electronically controlled, just like any other econo-car Auto trans.

I asked. Subaru said it was different than the outgoing "4EAT."

Did anyone mention the downgraded brakes on the new model?

They were not downgraded in the new model. 4 is not always greater than 2.

Hey it's the new Mazda 3....;)

Did anyone mention the downgraded brakes on the new model?

These are brakes from LGT. Bigger and better than your wimpy WRX 4 pots.

Limited slip gone = th3 suk

Cheap it out whenever they can.

The good sounds like : Leggie 2.5 engine, 2x wishbone, longer wheelbase, Better interior

The bad: No more aluminum, no limited slip, no more 4 pots

The yawn: Exterior is OK, but not original.

Translation >>> NO RUSH to upgrade to this model.

These are brakes from LGT. Bigger and better than your wimpy WRX 4 pots.
HAHAHA You lose pc4400! :banana:

Also this was supposed to be technical thread so could everyone please shut up about the looks. I hate reading through pages of people comparing it to This or That. Nobody gives a flying F#@& about your opinion it's looks. Go buy your EVO and let it fall apart on you we don't care.
We should have one place to voice your opinion on the looks so the rest of us can discuss and learn about important stuff.

+1 :)

These are brakes from LGT. Bigger and better than your wimpy WRX 4 pots.

ok, didnt know, that's all. But I am happy with my wimpy wrx though.

Hey it's the new Mazda 3....;)

.......should I even say anythnig, or I shall ban myself, lol. "just ingorance" I shall say. the performance is mostly what matters and everyone on here knows it'll outperform a Mazda 3, so U can buy one [a 3 that is] and have fun in it when snow season comes.

~Clinton

This thread is unreal. Some people, it seems, will make up anything they can in order to argue with the actual experts who have actually seen the car in order to find some way to put it down.

The VDC is in there by new federal law requiring all new cars sold in the US by 2009 to have electronic traction control systems.

The plastic intake manifold design is SUPERIOR.

The WBM car was pre-production, so any turbo on it does not mean that will be the turbo on the final production model.

Most car owners will argue that a few inches in cargo area width is more important than a few inches in height. And most car enthuiasts will tell you that the double wishbone suspension in the Impreza is long long overdue.


Great write-up, Subiesport guys. I look forward to getting my copy of your next issue. I especially love the pic posted here. The 2008 just keeps looking better and better.

.......should I even say anythnig, or I shall ban myself, lol. "just ingorance" I shall say. the performance is mostly what matters and everyone on here knows it'll outperform a Mazda 3, so U can buy one [a 3 that is] and have fun in it when snow season comes.

~Clinton

Uh....well what bout the Mazdaspeed 3? wouldnt that outperform a wrx?

These are brakes from LGT. Bigger and better than your wimpy WRX 4 pots.

I beg to differ!!!!!!! :devil:

Uh....well what bout the Mazdaspeed 3? wouldnt that outperform a wrx?

yes the ,mazdaspeed3 outperforms the wrx and i think it might outperform the new wrx . i knwo for sure on the street the spped3 will win up top . It would be nice to have a mod friendly car like the mazdaspeed3 .

I beg to differ!!!!!!! :devil:
You would be wrong.

The WBM car was pre-production, so any turbo on it does not mean that will be the turbo on the final production model.


The VDC is in there by new federal law requiring all new cars sold in the US by 2009 to have electronic traction control systems.


Repeating it doesn't make it any more true. What is your source? Where are your facts coming from? Oh wait...I forgot, you can pull things out of your ass and call them legitimate because you said so.

It helps to remove the head from wherever it may be logged to facilitate actually reading things before you criticize them.

WBM is most likely not a pre-production car because it doesn't make sense to give it to SPT to make after-market parts (esp the intake which directly impacts the operation of the turbo) if none of the parts are going to be the same on the production model.

And electronic stability control for all models is not required until 2011 not 2009.
http://forums.trucktrend.com/70/6260584/off-topic-automotive/feds-mandate-electronic-stability-control-systems/index.html

Repeating it doesn't make it any more true. What is your source?.

As of last week (post WBM) there was not a single production 08 Impreza in the USA.

It is a PLUS in several ways plastic doesn't retain heat like metal does, makes a much smoother surface and is easier to engineer an optimal design.

As for longevity I can't imagine it being a problem. Subaru isn't the first to do this. Corvettes have had them for a decade as well as others i am sure.


About the usage of composites (plastics) that have replaced aluminium in the new Impreza:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/fe...wrx/index.html

To quote from the above article in sport compact car (on the 08 Impreza):

---------------------------
The Legacy's EJ25 uses the same block and similar heads as found on STIs and '06 WRXs. The main difference is the intake manifold and associated plumbing. In order to reduce manufacturing costs, the Legacy motor uses an ABS plastic intake manifold and end-tanks on its top mount intercooler. This is good for weight reduction and lowering intake temperature, but comes at a cost for high-boost turbo cars. Unlike conventional aluminum intake manifolds and runners, plastic manifolds typically use a recessed rubber O-ring to seal against the cylinder head instead of a flat gasket. Under stock boost, this is fine, but for anyone who wants to upgrade turbos or just increase the stock boost levels past 17psi, the O-rings just might do a Challenger. The plastic intercooler end-tanks will have similar issues with high boost or prolonged beatings at stock boost.

While bolting up an aluminum STI manifold to the heads in order to hold more boost is a relatively easy task, getting the rest of the Legacy fuel, vacuum and boost plumbing to fit is not. Changing manifolds requires almost a complete engine bay fuel system swap since OE-quality fuel lines and connectors are near impossible to modify. That means the intercooler and throttle body will have to get changed out too.

Changing the stock VF40 turbo also presents another set of problems. Unlike the STI and WRX, the VF40 compressor outlet is a flange that bolts directly to one of the plastic end tanks. Not only is this not the greatest idea, WRX and STI turbo upgrades will not work with Legacy manifold/throttle body/intercooler set-ups. Again, you'll have to change the manifold or look for a Legacy bolt-on turbo from companies like Deadbolt Performance.

The lesson here is really to not be greedy with power. Keep the hardware stock and change out some intake and exhaust plumbing, and the new WRX should be more car than most can handle. If you have to have big power, then get ready for a huge financial commitment.
-------------------------------------------------------

Bottomline, it seems like the plastic setups will reduce weight but unfortunately, is not designed to cope with power that is well beyond the stock rating. The design intent in going with plastic, seemed to be cheaper manufacturing costs rather than any performance objective.

These are brakes from LGT. Bigger and better than your wimpy WRX 4 pots.

I think this is pure speculation based on some unknown emails from unknown people. What I do know is that the WRX in the NY auto show, had clearly smaller brakes when compared to the Legacy 3.0R parked beside it. I am assuming that the GT brakes are at least the same size as the Legacy 3.0R.

The brakes on the WRX in the NY auto show, looked like the 2-pot/1-pot in the pre-2006 WRX, not the larger discs from the Legacy GT.

I think this is pure speculation based on some unknown emails from unknown people. What I do know is that the WRX in the NY auto show, had clearly smaller brakes when compared to the Legacy 3.0R parked beside it. I am assuming that the GT brakes are at least the same size as the Legacy 3.0R.

The brakes on the WRX in the NY auto show, looked like the 2-pot/1-pot in the pre-2006 WRX, not the larger discs from the Legacy GT.

and they look waaaaay better lol

I remember reading a few months ago that allot of car companies are cutting back on aluminum due to its high costs. There has been a huge increase in the price of aluminum over the past few years. Gonna be intreating to see what kind of power a Cobb stage 1 and 2 will be able to do. Depending on what turbo(I am not joining that argument) ü guess will make a big differnce. Car and driver had a first drive of the 08 wrx in the newest edition(jap version). They seemed to say what we all been hearing, more mature, less fun. I think that was actually the tag line of the article. I was really hoping the new mags this month would have a review of the new WRX, as I am waiting to purchase a car and the only 2 I'm looking at are 08 wrx and 08 Mazda speed3.

I was really hoping the new mags this month would have a review of the new WRX, as I am waiting to purchase a car and the only 2 I'm looking at are 08 wrx and 08 Mazda speed3.

No US mags will have reviews of the USDM car until August (September issues), since we all just drove them last week: Folks that were on hand were Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Super Street, Sport Compact Car and a few others.

Also, keep in mind that reviews of the JDM model with its twin-scroll turbo and different suspension configuration (confirmed with FHI engineers) aren't going to be wholly representative of what we're getting here.

VDC is great. But it is for sure not a substitute for differetial brake/lock!!!!!

Just look at the new Saab coming out. Finally a company decided to add a differential brake to the Haldex clutch solution becaus open diffs+traction control is not enough if you want good AWD in snow. I bet all Subaru's sold here in Sweden will still have the LSD or similar on every new car.

As for the rest of the new Impreza, i think it will be great :)

No rear LSD? A nanny VDC running in the backround? Bland (ugly) stlying? Plastic intake manifold? Plastic Intercooler end tanks?

No thanks.. no thank you at all. ill pass on this one.

Hmmmm, I guess LSx and Porsche motors are badly designed because of their plastic intake manifolds.:rolleyes:

well i dont' like the fact that they deleted the impreza wagon.........

the interior looks nice and refined...

going from a real limited slip to that electronical stuff is.... well ..
lest just say its a reason i don't like my brothers gti 07'... electronic/no limted slip diff

50 pounds lighter IS a bit nice.. but any GD can lose that much weight quite easily..... (hell i just changed wheels and dropped about 25 lbs')

These are brakes from LGT. Bigger and better than your wimpy WRX 4 pots.

:p and a little bit heavier too unfortuntely

I woulnd't think they'd perform very differently on teh same size rotors.

i think the suspension/brake forum had a huge argument over this already....

No US mags will have reviews of the USDM car until August (September issues), since we all just drove them last week: Folks that were on hand were Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Super Street, Sport Compact Car and a few others.

Also, keep in mind that reviews of the JDM model with its twin-scroll turbo and different suspension configuration (confirmed with FHI engineers) aren't going to be wholly representative of what we're getting here.

They still let Motor Trend look at their cars in advance after all they've done?:lol: ;)

Close... La Jolla, San Diego, Ca. :p

Actually Pacific Beach is San Diego. Tower 23...

Repeating it doesn't make it any more true. What is your source? Where are your facts coming from? Oh wait...I forgot, you can pull things out of your ass and call them legitimate because you said so.

Link to actual NHTSA ruling (http://www.safercar.gov/esc/Rule.pdf)

Sorry, I had the year wrong, tool. That doesn't mean that I was pulling things out of my ass. :rolleyes:

Why don't you go troll in Off-Topic?

Actually Pacific Beach is San Diego. Tower 23...

I just saw a sign on the way from the airport that said La Jolla. My mistake, I don't know that area. Nice hotel. :D

Subaru needs to fire their photographers and hire the crew at subiesport... the WRX actually looks good in this photo! :huh:

Hmmmm, I guess LSx and Porsche motors are badly designed because of their plastic intake manifolds.:rolleyes:

Hmmm...are you certain that the composites used in the Corvette and the Porsche are the same as the ones in the econo-WRX or GT ?

There are plastics used in walmart for packaging and there are other "plastics" used in the space shuttle program. 2 completely different animals, even though both are classified under "plastic".
:)

Under stock boost, this is fine, but for anyone who wants to upgrade turbos or just increase the stock boost levels past 17psi, the O-rings just might do a Challenger. The plastic intercooler end-tanks will have similar issues with high boost or prolonged beatings at stock boost.

I am running the sti manifold option on my legacy, but I did it for more turbo options 2 years ago. The plastic manifold has no problems at 17psi+. There are plenty running avo450's, 20g, sz55's, gt35's .......with no problems. However it is true what they say about the intercooler, stage 2 with the stock turbo is right at its limits.

Hmmm...are you certain that the composites used in the Corvette and the Porsche are the same as the ones in the econo-WRX or GT ?

There are plastics used in walmart for packaging and there are other "plastics" used in the space shuttle program. 2 completely different animals, even though both are classified under "plastic".
:)

Are you sure they aren't similar?

LS1s in f-bodes have them too.

The grade of plastic doesn't matter near as much as the design.

Beautiful.

The grade of plastic doesn't matter near as much as the design.

The "grade of plastic doesn't matter" ?:lol: :lol:

Are you sure they aren't similar?

I am certain they are not the same, specifically the Corvette version. I believe it was a patented version that was significantly stronger than Nylon but unfortunately, even that plastic was not built for pressure variations and extreme strains of a turbo model.

The Porsche version is something that I am not familiar with at all but you can bet your bottom dollar that it was a patented "plastic" too and definitely not "available" to Subaru to put into their econo-WRX. :)

Bottomline, the key point is the following, from the above referenced Sport Compact Car article on the 08 WRX and the GT before it:

In order to reduce manufacturing costs, the Legacy motor uses an ABS plastic intake manifold and end-tanks on its top mount intercooler.

The design intent here is to reduce manufacturing costs not some kind of lofty performance target that Porsche etc were striving for.

The "grade of plastic doesn't matter" ?:lol: :lol:
How about you quote the whole thing???

Take a look at another econo car, the Cobalt ls/lt it uses a plastic intake mani that is rated up to 500hp with boost, but because of it's design it can cause puddling. So when using nitrous if not tuned properly can result in disaster.

So before you write off the manifold as junk, learn if it is first!

It must be fun arguing about speculations all day.

Actually Pacific Beach is San Diego. Tower 23...


great food there too!

Bottomline, the key point is the following, from the above referenced Sport Compact Car article on the 08 WRX and the GT before it:

In order to reduce manufacturing costs, the Legacy motor uses an ABS plastic intake manifold and end-tanks on its top mount intercooler.

The design intent here is to reduce manufacturing costs not some kind of lofty performance target that Porsche etc were striving for.

That is a misleading statement there at the end. Just because they were able to reduce manufacturing costs does not mean they did not have performance in mind - that intake manifold is on the 276hp Legacy GT in Japan, for instance, which has significantly more power than the upcoming USDM WRX.

The statement also does not reference *what* costs were being reduced, and where. Reducing the cost of aluminum usage again does not mean that they reduced the performance.

In fact, almost all cars are designed to reduce manufacturing costs, with the exception of multi-million dollar specialty automobiles. No manufacturer says to their engineers "increase manufacturing costs, will ya?".

The SCC article unfortunately is a single voice that is relying on the opinion of aftermarket tuners whose experience levels we do not know. So far we have heard of one possible urban legend case that the o-rings on the plastic intake manifold have developed a leak, and we don't even know if that case was because of incorrect installation, manufacturing defect, or a host of other issues that come up with aftermarket tuning. And on the other side there is far more proven cases where the plastic intake manifold *has not* failed under higher boost levels. 400+ whp Legacies already exist. My personal car has been seeing 20+ psi for *3* years now.

Bottom line is that there is only speculation that the composite intake manifold is inferior to the older aluminum intake manifold design.

There has been no hard proven fact that it is. I would instead speculate that since the composite plastic intake manifold is a much newer and more refined design than the aluminum intake manifolds, it may actually have superior flow and performance.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

That is a misleading statement there at the end. Just because they were able to reduce manufacturing costs does not mean they did not have performance in mind - that intake manifold is on the 276hp Legacy GT in Japan, for instance, which has significantly more power than the upcoming USDM WRX.

The statement also does not reference *what* costs were being reduced, and where. Reducing the cost of aluminum usage again does not mean that they reduced the performance.

In fact, almost all cars are designed to reduce manufacturing costs, with the exception of multi-million dollar specialty automobiles. No manufacturer says to their engineers "increase manufacturing costs, will ya?".

The SCC article unfortunately is a single voice that is relying on the opinion of aftermarket tuners whose experience levels we do not know. So far we have heard of one possible urban legend case that the o-rings on the plastic intake manifold have developed a leak, and we don't even know if that case was because of incorrect installation, manufacturing defect, or a host of other issues that come up with aftermarket tuning. And on the other side there is far more proven cases where the plastic intake manifold *has not* failed under higher boost levels. 400+ whp Legacies already exist. My personal car has been seeing 20+ psi for *3* years now.

Bottom line is that there is only speculation that the composite intake manifold is inferior to the older aluminum intake manifold design.

There has been no hard proven fact that it is. I would instead speculate that since the composite plastic intake manifold is a much newer and more refined design than the aluminum intake manifolds, it may actually have superior flow and performance.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

Thank you.

i want to trade my mustang 1989 convertible red rims from cobra and a dodge ram 1500 1997 black for a subaru

So with the VDC is the whole drifting thing out the door or can it be turned off??

tha fact the rear diff is open will make drifting next to impossible. combined with vdc the car will always be attempting to correct you