I guess the press embargo on 2008 Impreza driving impressions articles ended today. :)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0709_2008_subaru_impreza_wrx
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0707_2008_subaru_impreza_wrx/

interesting MT got .3 second faster 0-60 than C&D

and it seems like MT is the only one that really likes it.

wow......seeing the 19/24 mpg rating as the official rating, while on par for REALITY with the current model, doesnt look all that great for the new model which was supposed to have a more efficient rating.

So it looks awful and drives worse than the current one.

Nice job!

So it looks awful and drives worse than the current one.

Nice job!



So true..... !!

TOMMY B

RALLY ON /////////////

It's been said a million times already, but the sedan doesn't look all that bad, just not that great.

And any time I have to say to myself, "I got to see it in person..", it allways ends up a disapointment. As opposed to something like the new Porsche GT2 which looks amazing in pictures online and in magazines, and I have zero doubt it'll be 10x more gorgeous in real life.

the looks don't matter to me that much, the disappointment here is that they are saying its not as fun as the prev car. I'll still test drive and decide for myself. but said to hear from so many sources.

http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0709_09z+2008_subaru_impreza_WRX+left_side_vie w.jpg

this shot from motortrend looks amazing.. this finally give the sedan more justice.. i love the hatch but this makes the sedan look a lot better

wow......seeing the 19/24 mpg rating as the official rating, while on par for REALITY with the current model, doesnt look all that great for the new model which was supposed to have a more efficient rating.Looking at fueleconomy.gov, the WRX Auto is rated 20/25 for 2008. For comparison, the Auto Forester 2.5X is 20/26, and the Auto Legacy 2.5i is 20/27, both for the 2008 models. If you go back and look at the 2007 Impreza 2.5i, its rating under the new mileage system is also 20/25 (23/28 under the old system).

So while the manual versions were rated slightly better in previous years, the auto is rated slightly better than the manual for 2008. And the auto WRX is pretty close to last year's auto 2.5i.

LOL MT quoted some posts off of NASIOC and even named one screen name, Superglue WRX.

So it looks awful and drives worse than the current one.

Nice job!

Did you read the artical? It says it's pretty much identical to the previous model in handling and performance.

My biggest disappointment is they don't note any better handling than the outgoing model. I was really hoping that the 08 would be on par with the MS3 and GTi, but it doesn't seem that way.

hmmm ... consensus seems to be that the cars are much more mainstream, which has pros and cons. We'll see how they sell ...

wow......seeing the 19/24 mpg rating as the official rating, while on par for REALITY with the current model, doesnt look all that great for the new model which was supposed to have a more efficient rating.

Don't forget the EPA changed the rating system, so most cars now have lower numbers.

I say the more the car sales the better. I think subaru has realized they have their niche market which is not going anywhere, they have not and will not because nothing else offers the same quality and all wheel drive, subaru is now trying to get in with the general public, which the legacy has done well. I don't understand why the car is so de-tuned, but from the point of view of most wrx owners the potential is huge, that is once cobb takes a bit of time to fiddle with it.

Any reviews of the base model?

"Since when should a Subaru look and drive like a Toyota - and an ugly one at that?"

Sums it all up for you...

2008 Subaru WRX POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS Drivetrain layout Front engine, FWD

Well I guess thats game over ;)

if the new car basically performs the same as its predecessors, but it looks like crap...i see no super-convincing reason to buy it

LOL MT quoted some posts off of NASIOC and even named one screen name, Superglue WRX.

and lists the car as FWD

no handling improvements blows

Focusing on the good, aesthetically the average run-of-the mill look of the car better meets the expectations of the average consumer. There is a reason that all these sedans and five-door hatches look alike. The mags have a grasp of this. Similarly, performance should not be a leap forward since the idea was to make the car blend in better with vehicles on which other manufacturers are getting good sales numbers.

So it looks awful and drives worse than the current one.

Nice job!

So true..... !!

TOMMY B

RALLY ON /////////////



It's useless posts like these that spread misinformation and hyperbole all over the forums, creating sensless overreactions from members who read the threads but not the original articles.

The Motor Trend review gave the WRX praise in nearly every category; including interior fit & finish, weight savings & construction, handling, quicker steering ratio, better torque and response at lower RPM's, and performance numbers equaling the outgoing model.

The apparent lack of reading comprehension and posting of completely false statements by some members is just unbelievable.

stimied : You are a Scooby Newbie :alien: ......

I think the general consensus from members who can be termed enthusiasts will be that the new WRX simply does not have anything to offer that would cause one to run out and trade in their 02-07 WRX for, and that the STI will be the only viable alternative to the current cars. I think that is probably what Subaru intended. It will be interesting to see if the new WRXs are competitive in the general market--I have serious doubts, though I would like to be proved wrong as I wish Subaru well. I also hope Subaru will eventually provide two trim levels for the STI, one a little less hardcore with perhaps even an in-between suspension setup. That would be sweet, and something I would jump at.

FWD..hehe.

It looks like a honda with a hood scoop now!

I think the general consensus from members who can be termed enthusiasts will be that the new WRX simply does not have anything to offer that would cause one to run out and trade in their 02-07 WRX for, and that the STI will be the only viable alternative to the current cars. I think that is probably what Subaru intended. It will be interesting to see if the new WRXs are competitive in the general market--I have serious doubts, though I would like to be proved wrong as I wish Subaru well. I also hope Subaru will eventually provide two trim levels for the STI, one a little less hardcore with perhaps even an in-between suspension setup. That would be sweet, and something I would jump at.

+1 to that!:)

Picture caption: First Test: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX
OMGWRXLOL: Subaru's latest rally-bred rocket crash lands on the Internet. We pick up the pieces and set the record straight.

OMGWRXLOL! :lol:

--kC

It's useless posts like these that spread misinformation and hyperbole all over the forums, creating sensless overreactions from members who read the threads but not the original articles.

The Motor Trend review gave the WRX praise in nearly every category; including interior fit & finish, weight savings & construction, handling, quicker steering ratio, better torque and response at lower RPM's, and performance numbers equaling the outgoing model.

The apparent lack of reading comprehension and posting of completely false statements by some members is just unbelievable.

So it handles about the same as the old one - we agree on that.
And what did motortrend think of the old one?

The WRX also trailed the Mazdaspeed in every handling test we conducted, evidence that the Subie's softer suspenders, while providing a more supple on-road ride, were too spongy to match the taut dampers and springs on the 3, which still delivered a ride pleasant enough for everyday commuting. Through the slalom, the WRX posted a speed of 63.4 mph, well behind the Mazda's 68.6, a pace that betters that of the BMW 330i, Infiniti G35, and Jaguar XK. Around our figure-eight course, a telling test of handling and braking, the WRX clocked a time of 27.1 sec at 0.64 g average, again no match for the 3's 26.6-second at 0.69g average. Circumnavigating the skidpad, the Mazda held on for 0.86 g of lateral grip--better than that of a Lexus IS 350--once more outgunning the Subie's stickiness of 0.80 g. And although the WRX wears snazzy red-painted calipers that use three times the number of pistons, it was the Mazdaspeed that offered superior brake feel and performance, halting from 60 to 0 mph in 111 feet--only a foot on top that of a Z06--a substantial 12 feet shorter than the Subaru.

Hmm.....

Perhaps subaru should have aimed to move the game on a small bit.
With a new car, matching your predecessor is not exactly progress now is it?

And if the Mazda 3 was supposed to be a competitior, well, looks like subaru is trailing out of the gate - not bad for a new car!

I wanted this car to be better, and now have to hope the STI will make up for it's little brother's failings.

Thats my opinion anyway. Everyone can have their own. You can call my thread uesless, just like I can call subaru's efforts useless with this abomination.

stimied : You are a Scooby Newbie :alien: ......despite the fact he is a "Scooby Newbie", you would do well to take lessons on punctuation, grammar, sentence structure, etc. from him.

I think the general consensus from members who can be termed enthusiasts will be that the new WRX simply does not have anything to offer that would cause one to run out and trade in their 02-07 WRX for, and that the STI will be the only viable alternative to the current cars. I think that is probably what Subaru intended. It will be interesting to see if the new WRXs are competitive in the general market--I have serious doubts, though I would like to be proved wrong as I wish Subaru well. I also hope Subaru will eventually provide two trim levels for the STI, one a little less hardcore with perhaps even an in-between suspension setup. That would be sweet, and something I would jump at.It would be interesting to see a "decontented STI."

It would be interesting to see a "decontented STI."

Maybe a STI TR?

I think the general consensus from members who can be termed enthusiasts will be that the new WRX simply does not have anything to offer that would cause one to run out and trade in their 02-07 WRX for, and that the STI will be the only viable alternative to the current cars. I think that is probably what Subaru intended. It will be interesting to see if the new WRXs are competitive in the general market--I have serious doubts, though I would like to be proved wrong as I wish Subaru well. I also hope Subaru will eventually provide two trim levels for the STI, one a little less hardcore with perhaps even an in-between suspension setup. That would be sweet, and something I would jump at.
Agreed. However, the MT video from Willow said that the new car seemed to have less turbo lag and better brakes than the previous version. Not something that is going to make or break people's decisions by any means, but at the same time, I think subtle refinements are what people are looking for. The car is good in so many ways, I'm just glad they didn't screw it up. Except for that whole sheet metal thing...

Looking at fueleconomy.gov, the WRX Auto is rated 20/25 for 2008. For comparison, the Auto Forester 2.5X is 20/26, and the Auto Legacy 2.5i is 20/27, both for the 2008 models. If you go back and look at the 2007 Impreza 2.5i, its rating under the new mileage system is also 20/25 (23/28 under the old system).

So while the manual versions were rated slightly better in previous years, the auto is rated slightly better than the manual for 2008. And the auto WRX is pretty close to last year's auto 2.5i.

Right but that was my point -- the revised rating for the 07 WRX is 18/25....that means that potentially if you do more highway driving you are going to get WORSE mileage (albeit only marginally worse) in the 08 (rated at 19/24) vs the 07. While that doesnt look all that bad on paper, it's definitely a step backwards AND contradicts Subaru's claim of 10% BETTER economy.

So, while we are definitely rushing to conclusions, you couple this with the other observations (bland styling, non-exciting handling, etc) and it becomes difficult for me to remotely justify even looking at the 08, let alone replacing my 06. At least at the moment

but, hopefully for Subaru, the masses' requirements for purchasing the WRX were different than mine

LOL MT quoted some posts off of NASIOC and even named one screen name, Superglue WRX.

Edmunds.com Inside Line did that back in April.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=120212

Edmunds.com Inside Line did that back in April.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=120212

In both cases, direct quotes from internet users are superb example of lackluster automotive journalism. Magazines don't need to report on the opinion of every internet forum dolt with a keyboard, no matter how relavent it is to the subject vehicle.

Magizine writers should clearly establish thier own opinion on a vehicle.

Internet forums are for seeing the opinions of everyone else.

I think the general consensus from members who can be termed enthusiasts will be that the new WRX simply does not have anything to offer that would cause one to run out and trade in their 02-07 WRX for, and that the STI will be the only viable alternative to the current cars. I think that is probably what Subaru intended.

I think you are spot on. Having said that, I am considering replacing my early '02 with an '08. I prefer the blander styling to the boy racer look and I have thoroughly enjoyed driving my '02 for the last 6 years.

Does anyone know if the warranty is only 3/36 now rather than the 5/60 I got in 2001?

The more I read these reviews through Car and driver, Motor trend, edmunds....the more disturbed I get. Subaru is clearly going after a different buying market. The car is no longer a cheap alternative sports car...they are in the $29k range with some options. My wagon was under 25K very well equipped. Once you start approaching the the 30k barrier there are many fast performance cars to choose from(350Z, loaded mustang, EVO..etc) This new WRX has nothing to do with performance improvement, but with improving the refinement in the car. More space, nicer materials,taller...WTF!...who cares!...in all seriousness, bring back the cheaper plastics and give it 50 more horses and a face lift....why buy a plush WRX when Subaru has the LGT....it makes no sense. We are all waiting to see the STi...once again, most of us can't afford an STi..33k, that was the old model...whats the new model gonna cost?...37-38K!? It saddens me that we will most likely never see an article like this ever again.......enjoy!

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/3615/two-against-one.html

The more I read these reviews through Car and driver, Motor trend, edmunds....the more disturbed I get. Subaru is clearly going after a different buying market. The car is no longer a cheap alternative sports car...they are in the $29k range with some options. My wagon was under 25K very well equipped.

The new WRX "5-Door" is still under 25K very well equipped. No need for panic.

This new WRX has nothing to do with performance improvement, but with improving the refinement in the car. More space, nicer materials,taller...WTF!...who cares!...

More buyers care about these qualities more than performance. Subaru is in the buisness of selling cars. They are trying to sell more than ever before, trying to reach a broader audience.

whats the new model gonna cost?...37-38K!?

No. Stop being so dumb.

The new WRX "5-Door" is still under 25K very well equipped. No need for panic.



More buyers care about these qualities more than performance. Subaru is in the buisness of selling cars. They are trying to sell more than ever before, trying to reach a broader audience.



No. Stop being so dumb.

I'm not being dumb, just bringing up some valid points. If you want a plush sedan...buy the LGT, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry..etc. I truly believe the WRX did so well because of the niche market it had...anyone that was between the ages of 18-35 years of age was very interested in them. What other all wheel drive, 220+ horse power car was out there for under 25k?....none! Not everyone out there wants a "mature car"...I'm in my mid 30's and still want the car to be a cheap econo rocket. The day I loose the kid in me...I will be truly lost. What Subaru gains here in a more mature crowd will also be lost in the younger market; there is big money tuner cars. Unfortunately the younger ones that purchase this model will be blowing there money trying to make the car look more aggressive because they wont have the money to afford the STi. They Shouldn't even name the new model a WRX. Name it the Impreza SL..(sport/luxury). Come out with the WRX that is cheaper,sportier,tighter suspension and give the true fans of the WRX what they want at that rock bottom price. The STi will always be their flag ship rally car.

My biggest disappointment is they don't note any better handling than the outgoing model. I was really hoping that the 08 would be on par with the MS3 and GTi, but it doesn't seem that way.

:huh: :confused: :huh: The WRX has always handled better than the new GTi, and will always handle worse than the MS3. The GTi's suspension is as soft as the Legacy's, and the MS3's is nearly as firm as the STi's... why would you expect a stock WRX to handle like either of them? :huh:

I think the point of comparison to the MS3 is valid, and in this case subaru really didnt step up to counter mazda at all. That is pretty sad considering that they took the time to revise a completely new rear suspension and could tune a new chassis but couldnt make a version competitive with the MS3. The MS3 is not an STi competitor, it is a WRX competitor. I am going to wait for the 08 Sti to make a decision, but right now I will not trade in my 04 wrx wagon on a car that is not really any better. I hope the Sti is not priced too high. Please subaru keep it reasonable!

I'm not being dumb, just bringing up some valid points. If you want a plush sedan...buy the LGT, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry..etc. I truly believe the WRX did so well because of the niche market it had...anyone that was between the ages of 18-35 years of age was very interested in them. What other all wheel drive, 220+ horse power car was out there for under 25k?....none! Not everyone out there wants a "mature car"...I'm in my mid 30's and still want the car to be a cheap econo rocket. The day I loose the kid in me...I will be truly lost. What Subaru gains here in a more mature crowd will also be lost in the younger market; there is big money tuner cars. Unfortunately the younger ones that purchase this model will be blowing there money trying to make the car look more aggressive because they wont have the money to afford the STi. They Shouldn't even name the new model a WRX. Name it the Impreza SL..(sport/luxury). Come out with the WRX that is cheaper,sportier,tighter suspension and give the true fans of the WRX what they want at that rock bottom price. The STi will always be their flag ship rally car.

they're going for a more mature market because the mature market can actually afford the cars and usually buy them new... the younger buyers usually can't afford it and end up buying it up used

I'm not being dumb, just bringing up some valid points.

Thinking the next STI will be priced at $38K in US dollars is dumb. "Build a car I want" is not a valid point.


Not everyone out there wants a "mature car"...

Not everyone out there wants a car that looks like it came from a video game or Fast and Furious movie. According to the FHI bean counters, more potential customers prefer the mature look.

there is big money tuner cars. Unfortunately the younger ones that purchase this model will be blowing there money trying to make the car look more aggressive because they wont have the money to afford the STi.

Buyers who modify a car are vastly outnumbered by those who purchase a car as a transportation appliance and leave it alone.

Thinking the next STI will be priced at $38K in US dollars is dumb. "Build a car I want" is not a valid point.




Not everyone out there wants a car that looks like it came from a video game or Fast and Furious movie. According to the FHI bean counters, more potential customers prefer the mature look.



Buyers who modify a car are vastly outnumbered by those who purchase a car as a transportation appliance and leave it alone.


Not everyone, wants a car that is boring and has no personality either. I guess the new model fits you perfectly.

:huh: :confused: :huh: The WRX has always handled better than the new GTi, and will always handle worse than the MS3. The GTi's suspension is as soft as the Legacy's, and the MS3's is nearly as firm as the STi's... why would you expect a stock WRX to handle like either of them? :huh:

I would still expect the new WRX to be on par with the MS3 handling wise. Most of the recent comparisons have been lost due to handling set backs. Better tires would help and should be an option as the re92s are woefully inadequate for a car of this caliber.

So I still say that a new design should not be marginally better in the handling department than its predecessor.

Not everyone, wants a car that is boring and has no personality either. I guess the new model fits you perfectly.

I never mentioned my personal desires of what a Subaru Impreza should be. You did. I'm just trying to assist you in seeing things from different angles other than your own.

[QUOTE=LastResort;18805833]despite the fact he is a "Scooby Newbie", you would do well to take lessons on punctuation, grammar, sentence structure, etc. from him.

LastResort, You write well, But get a life,you have over 75 + post on this board over the last 2 days....

I have race Pro Rally for over 13 years. What have you done ? other then read & talk about cars.

Tell me more, why is the new WRX is so great.

I would bet the 1993 WRX is better then this new 2008

TOMMY B

RALLY ON /////////

LastResort, You write well, But get a life,you have over 75 + post on this board over the last 2 days....

I have race Pro Rally for over 13 years. What have you done ? other then read & talk about cars.

Tell me more, why is the new WRX is so great.

I would bet the 1993 WRX is better then this new 2008

TOMMY B

RALLY ON /////////


I think the point he was making is that you post in EVERY thread, saying the exact same freaking thing 15 times a day...bumping old threads to repeat your dislike for the car.

You act like you're 10. We get it, you don't like it. Shut the hell up about it already.

Thinking the next STI will be priced at $38K in US dollars is dumb.

Why:huh: The $$ difference between the current WRX vs STI is approx. $8,500, and that's with the STI being built on the same chassis/body sharing a majority of parts. If the new STI is as different as they claim from the normal Impreza WRX I would expect the price gap to widen, perhaps substantially. With the number of STI's they sell compared to 2.5i/WRX's I would think they would need to charge more for the "custom" parts produced on a relatively small scale for the STI.

I'd think $36k would be a minimum base price for the new STI, if it's as different and hardcore as they claim compared to the WRX. That's only a $2,500 increase from the current model, not really outrageous(or dumb).

I too am hoping that they would say that there is significant handling improvement so I'm a little disappointed.

After reading the articles, it seems that they (magazine reviewers) didn't really drive the card hard and so their opinion is based on a couple of quick spins around the block. Is it possible that Subaru only allowed them a gentle cruise and no flogging? Nobody mentioned "slalom", "test-track".. etc.

I think the point he was making is that you post in EVERY thread, saying the exact same freaking thing 15 times a day...bumping old threads to repeat your dislike for the car.

You act like you're 10. We get it, you don't like it. Shut the hell up about it already.

Amen.

I would bet the 1993 WRX is better then this new 2008

TOMMY B


93 WRX is probably lighter but I doubt that it is better.
Just my opinion and one's definition of "better".

Krzys

I too am hoping that they would say that there is significant handling improvement so I'm a little disappointed.

After reading the articles, it seems that they (magazine reviewers) didn't really drive the card hard and so their opinion is based on a couple of quick spins around the block. Is it possible that Subaru only allowed them a gentle cruise and no flogging? Nobody mentioned "slalom", "test-track".. etc.


EDIT---
forget this thought i just read other reviews, i guess there is really no improvements in handling. i guess i'm glad i'll keep my MY04 WRX.

LastResort, You write well, But get a life,you have over 75 + post on this board over the last 2 days....

I have race Pro Rally for over 13 years. What have you done ? other then read & talk about cars.

Tell me more, why is the new WRX is so great.

I would bet the 1993 WRX is better then this new 2008

TOMMY B

RALLY ON /////////Look Petter, I don't like the car any more than you do. I'm just tired of seeing the same things posted over and over again. It was completely juvenile of you to point out he was a scooby newbie, and mply that has anything to do with his opinion.

But please, tell me how the fact that I don't rally means I can't have an opinion about this car, or your attitude.

I too am hoping that they would say that there is significant handling improvement so I'm a little disappointed.

After reading the articles, it seems that they (magazine reviewers) didn't really drive the card hard and so their opinion is based on a couple of quick spins around the block. Is it possible that Subaru only allowed them a gentle cruise and no flogging? Nobody mentioned "slalom", "test-track".. etc.

I flogged the new car on Glendora Mountain Road on the night of Thursday, July 12, 2007.

Not everyone, wants a car that is boring and has no personality either. I guess the new model fits you perfectly.

i don't know about that.. why else do the camrys, corrollas, accords, civics, pilots, highlanders, impalas, silverados, f150s, sell so well? they all have little to no personalities but most people don't care how unique cars are.. look at the 06-07 tribecas.. look at subarus in general, they're very unique and have always been quirky, but that uniqueness doesn't really appeal to everyone

Not everyone, wants a car that is boring and has no personality either. I guess the new model fits you perfectly.

Gah.... stop please for all our sakes. You're retarded.

Look Petter, I don't like the car any more than you do. I'm just tired of seeing the same things posted over and over again. It was completely juvenile of you to point out he was a scooby newbie, and mply that has anything to do with his opinion.

But please, tell me how the fact that I don't rally means I can't have an opinion about this car, or your attitude.

Why all the love ? for this or any new subaru (WRX ,B9 , baja Etc..) This board needs spot on this page (News) for some of us to vent are negtive thoughts.. People like my self on this board can't say any thing bad about any subaru more then one time. We all like subaru cars as much as anyone on this board.

TOMMY B

RALLY ON //////////////////

[quote=LastResort;18805833]despite the fact he is a "Scooby Newbie", you would do well to take lessons on punctuation, grammar, sentence structure, etc. from him.

LastResort, You write well, But get a life,you have over 75 + post on this board over the last 2 days....

I have race Pro Rally for over 13 years. What have you done ? other then read & talk about cars.

Tell me more, why is the new WRX is so great.

I would bet the 1993 WRX is better then this new 2008

TOMMY B

RALLY ON /////////



You Goose


RALLY ON ///////// :lol:

Responses ranged from disbelief ("I really hope this is an April Fool's joke") to outrage ("Somebody find the Subaru designer and shoot him"). On Subaru fan sites, criticisms were particularly harsh and included a fair amount of mean-spirited ("Did they hire the design team from Chrysler?"), melodramatic ("Seriously, I want to throw up"), and sarcastic ("I see the Camry, where's the Impreza?") commentary. The faithful were not happy with what Fuji Heavy had wrought.

HAHAHA straight from nasioc

I have race Pro Rally for over 13 years. What have you done ? other then read & talk about cars.

For what reason does that give you any qualifications to rate a road-going consumer vehicle?

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.sevenphotos.com

This new WRX has nothing to do with performance improvement, but with improving the refinement in the car. More space, nicer materials,taller...WTF!...who cares!...

To name one person who cares..... Me. Everything they changed, I consider for the better, with the possible exception of a potential slight loss in handling "edge." But suspension and tires are something I'd expect to change on _any_ Impreza I bought, so the new model doesn't create any drawback there.

And how the boxy, frumpy '02-'07 sedan can be considered "aggressive", while the new model (which has more distinct stylistic detailing) is considered "bland" - I definitely don't get that at all.

_Jeff

The funny thing to me is everyone argued that the current platform is outdated...especially when it came in last in one car magazine comparison. And now the completely redesigned Impreza....looks well....outdated already. Weren't people spouting that the new wider platform with the new rear suspension would offer a significant handling increase

So to recap:

The old WRX = priced up to $27k.
The re-designed (new) WRX = up to $30k with no significant performance improvements after 8 years, only "aesthetic" ones.

Good job Subaru on letting every other auto-maker in the world catch up or surpass you in performance vs. cost.
It saddens me that we will most likely never see an article like this ever again.......enjoy!

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/3615/two-against-one.htmlSubaru will never really get this kind of praise again, which is what really helped them "take off" in America in the first place. Shame. :rolleyes:

So it looks awful and drives worse than the current one.

Nice job!

who cares!


you'll just replace the tires, swaybars, grill, and put in an accessport when they come out, just like everybody did with the outgoing impreza.

Yeah, and the vastly superior looks and aluminum bits helped the previous Impreza along to a healthy sales figure of 300 units a month in their entire lineup in Japan lately.

Performance-only enhancements do not increase sales. Aesthetic enhancements do. Toyota and Honda are concrete examples of this. Subaru may be a sell-out for some reason, despite being one of the few makers offering genuine enthusiast vehicles, but they have to sell to stay in business.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.sevenphotos.com

Yeah, and the vastly superior looks and aluminum bits helped the previous Impreza along to a healthy sales figure of 300 units a month in their entire lineup in Japan lately.

Performance-only enhancements do not increase sales. Aesthetic enhancements do. Toyota and Honda are concrete examples of this. Subaru may be a sell-out for some reason, despite being one of the few makers offering genuine enthusiast vehicles, but they have to sell to stay in business.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.sevenphotos.com

But will it work for Subaru? Time will only tell...

The funny thing to me is everyone argued that the current platform is outdated...especially when it came in last in one car magazine comparison.

Actually, the one that came in last was the non-WRX Impreza, which as we know, is not breaking any handling records, based on the way it is setup. ;)

Actually... I think it was a Car and Driver comparison where the WRX got smoked, by the likes of the Honda Civic Si and the GTI, not to mention the MS3.

Edit: It probably was the TR, as it would be closest in price to the others.

Actually, the one that came in last was the non-WRX Impreza, which as we know, is not breaking any handling records, based on the way it is setup. ;)

I think it was an WRX TR that came in last in that comparison test. If I'm thinking of the same article it was a 'cars under 25k' test. So they couldn't use a regular WRX because they said it exceeded the price limit for the compro.

Actually, the one that came in last was the non-WRX Impreza, which as we know, is not breaking any handling records, based on the way it is setup. ;)

I was talking about the test where the TR came last. Granted, factors such as interior quality played in its placement, but it was still outhandled.

I'm surprised no one else noticed this.... well, not really surprised. :p

Basic warranty 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Powertrain warranty 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Roadside assistance 3 yrs/36,000 miles

It used to be 60,000 miles for powertrain. Gives you a warm and fuzzy that Subaru really wants to back this model up with a good warranty. :rolleyes:

Wait....what? In the age of expanding warranties, Subaru can't be cutting back, can they?

In both cases, direct quotes from internet users are superb example of lackluster automotive journalism. Magazines don't need to report on the opinion of every internet forum dolt with a keyboard, no matter how relavent it is to the subject vehicle.

Magizine writers should clearly establish thier own opinion on a vehicle.

Internet forums are for seeing the opinions of everyone else.

Perhaps in this case the relavence of the online community's opinion is seen to be dirrectly linked to the potential of this car selling. In other words they realize the signifigance of the online community and how it represents actually money in the automobile industry and in this case, Subaru's ability to sell this car to their desired market.

Did anybody catch that bit in MT that the new car boosts only 11.9 psi? With EM tuning and the usual mods, the 08s could conceivably be even more impressive than stage 2 06-07s with the TD04.

Look for a lot more busted 3rd gears! :(

the 06 -07 boosts only 11.9

Doh!

my bad.

I think it's unfortunate they have the potential to increase the power from last generation, and aren't doing so. It's also about time they put the sti 6 speed in the wrx, or come up with a less expensive solution.

If they're concerned with taking away from the Legacy, just bump the power up in that model as well. There's obviously room for more power in that platform.

I like the new impreza, looks and all, but it seems like it doesn't stack up well against the competition.

The only new option I like on the new wrx is the VDC? And its over rated. A
six speed would be nice.

A six speed and more power.

Is there any feet to this rumor about there possibly being a decontented Sti? I think it would slot nicely into the pricing structure at around $29,000. I really think it should come in at around 28 with the better engine, suspension, and tranny, but we now have to account for the price markup that Subaru thinks that it can get away with.

Seems to me that they are going in the direction of VW. If they can't move upmarket with one model, they will slowly price all their models upmarket.

Subaru is betting all its chips on the STi now... i hope they make it raw... But deep down inside i think the new STI will fail to impress also.

I'm scared of that as well.

>>Achilles38WRX
>>Not everyone out there wants a car that looks like it came from a video >>game or Fast and Furious movie. According to the FHI bean counters, >>more potential customers prefer the mature look.

USA STI Limited is still available. When they make true limited editions like 202,203,204 ... they are sold out even before they start to build them.

The more I read these reviews through Car and driver, Motor trend, edmunds....the more disturbed I get. Subaru is clearly going after a different buying market. The car is no longer a cheap alternative sports car...they are in the $29k range with some options. My wagon was under 25K very well equipped. Once you start approaching the the 30k barrier there are many fast performance cars to choose from(350Z, loaded mustang, EVO..etc) This new WRX has nothing to do with performance improvement, but with improving the refinement in the car. More space, nicer materials,taller...WTF!...who cares!...in all seriousness, bring back the cheaper plastics and give it 50 more horses and a face lift....why buy a plush WRX when Subaru has the LGT....it makes no sense. We are all waiting to see the STi...once again, most of us can't afford an STi..33k, that was the old model...whats the new model gonna cost?...37-38K!? It saddens me that we will most likely never see an article like this ever again.......enjoy!

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/3615/two-against-one.html

AMEN

I'm not being dumb, just bringing up some valid points. If you want a plush sedan...buy the LGT, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry..etc. I truly believe the WRX did so well because of the niche market it had...anyone that was between the ages of 18-35 years of age was very interested in them. What other all wheel drive, 220+ horse power car was out there for under 25k?....none! Not everyone out there wants a "mature car"...I'm in my mid 30's and still want the car to be a cheap econo rocket. The day I loose the kid in me...I will be truly lost. What Subaru gains here in a more mature crowd will also be lost in the younger market; there is big money tuner cars. Unfortunately the younger ones that purchase this model will be blowing there money trying to make the car look more aggressive because they wont have the money to afford the STi. They Shouldn't even name the new model a WRX. Name it the Impreza SL..(sport/luxury). Come out with the WRX that is cheaper,sportier,tighter suspension and give the true fans of the WRX what they want at that rock bottom price. The STi will always be their flag ship rally car.

AMEN again. These are pretty much my issues with the 08 as well. I mean they were talking so much OMG double wishbones, and in the end there really is no improvement over the previous years. Personally I just don't find the new car appealing whatsoever, and pushing the 20k tag for a loaded one puts it in the company of cars it just can't compete with. I also agree that the new STi will be atleast 36k, theres no way it can be cheaper with the loaded 08 wrx pushing 30k. And if there is as much greatness as speculated in the New STi and there will be that huge a performance difference i also feel the WRX should loose the nameplate and just be called a GT, open diffs and VDC do not strike me as rally bred performance:rolleyes: again just another opinion. and for those saying that the car needed to be refined isnt that the opposite of it's original purpose? cheap, fast, tunable, agressively styled... The LGT is a great fit for those that want refinement, and if push came to shove hands down i would take that over a loaded 08 WRX. Sorry i just cant justify buying a car that really has not much on any of the previous model years performance wise.
awd is nice, but how many of us are stuck in snow and rain constantly? can't wait to check out a 135i, see the refresh on the ms6, and the evo/lancer ralliart.

IBthatlancerralliartbetternotbefwd

The double-wishbones are only in the rear, and are designed to increase the interior size and ride. The rear suspension doesn't do much for handling on a Subaru.

I can understand how one might expect a significantly better handling car if double wishbones were replacing the front struts, but that will not be the case as long as the Impreza remains a subcompact with a horizontally opposed engine.

You've got to realize that Subaru wants to compete with the big dogs.. which sell refinement. If you can find a car in that price range that offers a refined drive, AWD and can still muster a sub 6 second 0-60, please let me know.

I remember reading that SOA was pushing better handling and used the new rear as one of it's points. It is disapointing that the new one gains no ground on the old one performance wise. I quess it kind of does because it is taller and still handles the same.

Everyone today wants to compete with the big dogs. I don't remember the last one to succeed. You become a big dog by constantly improving what you are good at. When you are in the lead, you set the market.

Peace,

Greg

Is there any feet to this rumor about there possibly being a decontented Sti? Not a snowballs chance in hell, I was just speculating.

Its taller with narrower tires and still handles the same. I think the LGT rear suspension has always been in another league of sophistication compared to the Impreza's. It has been well known that the LGT can rival the handling of an STI with just a tire swap ( I forget what magazine did the comparo )

The new impreza WRX will please most people who buy it and it will sell far more than it ever has.

Saying it should handle like the MS3 is a mistake. The MS3 is a brutal ride, and far form mainstream. Subaru wants to take sales form the Mazda 3 and Volkwagon Golf. Granted the Subaru is more expensive, but if they can capture a portion of those people they will increase sales...

And lets not kid ourselves here. We are drop in the bucket to Subaru. The die hard enthusiast is not Subarus target audience for the WRX. We just dont buy enough cars. If you want all out raw performance, save up and buy the STI. And yes you will pay a premium for one.

But I believe its going to be a great car!

Worse handling?

If I am not mistaken lane change manouver speed rose by 5% (65 to 68 mph). The feel is not there but performance is. Would you prefer it the other way around?

If you want raw performance - save 35-40K and buy Lotus or STI or Evo.

Subaru caters to the mases. The lack of raw performance may explain why WRX name was dropped in Japan. The new car is not worth the old name but it is more refined. It is not worse car just different. I think it now does make sense.
Maybe now STI will come in different stages?

Krzys

you all need to understand that the wrx is not targeted for us bunch of kids who want to modify cars for cheap.
The sti will be ALL THAT you all want, you just have to pay more for it now.
by now all the wrx fanboys have grown and should be able to afford the STI.
just look at it, it looks like a grandma's car. it couldn't be any more boring.

Subaru just doesn't care about us people who actually gave this
car its reputation :(
Subaru SUCKS!

Its taller with narrower tires and still handles the same. I think the LGT rear suspension has always been in another league of sophistication compared to the Impreza's. It has been well known that the LGT can rival the handling of an STI with just a tire swap ( I forget what magazine did the comparo )

The new impreza WRX will please most people who buy it and it will sell far more than it ever has.

Saying it should handle like the MS3 is a mistake. The MS3 is a brutal ride, and far form mainstream. Subaru wants to take sales form the Mazda 3 and Volkwagon Golf. Granted the Subaru is more expensive, but if they can capture a portion of those people they will increase sales...

And lets not kid ourselves here. We are drop in the bucket to Subaru. The die hard enthusiast is not Subarus target audience for the WRX. We just dont buy enough cars. If you want all out raw performance, save up and buy the STI. And yes you will pay a premium for one.

But I believe its going to be a great car!

Basing this assessment on which information? :confused:

Let me ask you this: Have you driven a MS3? How many cars have you bought in the past 6 years?

Comparing these new reviews to the reviews for the '02/'03 WRX, they are totally lackluster. Many reviews sang high praises when the WRX first came here. I guess everyone got use to having a relatively cheap, AWD, turbo car here in America.

Maybe Subaru should have changed the name WRX to S-GT like in Japan. I think badging this car as such is selling a bit of a false image, since it's rally roots have been somewhat buried.

Anyway, I think the new WRX is now truly too close to the Legacy GT now that's it's "grown up". If I was in the market, I'd skip over the WRX and go for the Legacy GT. But I'm really hoping the STI delivers the "goods", as I may trade up in a couple years.

And lets not kid ourselves here. We are drop in the bucket to Subaru. The die hard enthusiast is not Subarus target audience for the WRX. We just dont buy enough cars. If you want all out raw performance, save up and buy the STI. And yes you will pay a premium for one.


Hmm - the most mainstream and refined subaru there is is the tribeca. And that bombed on both sides of the atlantic. So maybe refinement is not what people are looking for, or not what people are looking for from a subaru.

If subaru want to build toyotas, I'll just buy a toyota instead.

Sales of the old impreza were on the up and up, even though it was as refined as sugar beet, and ancient. That says something for the approach.

you'll just replace the tires, swaybars, grill, and put in an accessport when they come out, just like everybody did with the outgoing impreza.

Ya - why not just build it right in the first place?
Modify any car and you'll make it better.

I'd never buy a modified car off someone - Buying someone else's customised car is like buying their used underwear. It's too personal & it's covered in their shіt.

Its taller with narrower tires and still handles the same. I think the LGT rear suspension has always been in another league of sophistication compared to the Impreza's. It has been well known that the LGT can rival the handling of an STI with just a tire swap ( I forget what magazine did the comparo )

The new impreza WRX will please most people who buy it and it will sell far more than it ever has.

Saying it should handle like the MS3 is a mistake. The MS3 is a brutal ride, and far form mainstream. Subaru wants to take sales form the Mazda 3 and Volkwagon Golf. Granted the Subaru is more expensive, but if they can capture a portion of those people they will increase sales...

And lets not kid ourselves here. We are drop in the bucket to Subaru. The die hard enthusiast is not Subarus target audience for the WRX. We just dont buy enough cars. If you want all out raw performance, save up and buy the STI. And yes you will pay a premium for one.

But I believe its going to be a great car!
how can you say don't compair them, and then say they want to take some of the customers?:confused: :rolleyes:
btw i thought the MS3 was a pretty good ride

Worse handling?

If I am not mistaken lane change manouver speed rose by 5% (65 to 68 mph). The feel is not there but performance is. Would you prefer it the other way around?

If you want raw performance - save 35-40K and buy Lotus or STI or Evo.

Subaru caters to the mases. The lack of raw performance may explain why WRX name was dropped in Japan. The new car is not worth the old name but it is more refined. It is not worse car just different. I think it now does make sense.
Maybe now STI will come in different stages?

Krzys
the whole point of the wrx was raw budget power, in a practical package was it not? it has been selling quite well as such correct? i also vote to remove WRX from this cars name and call it a GT

Did anybody catch that bit in MT that the new car boosts only 11.9 psi? With EM tuning and the usual mods, the 08s could conceivably be even more impressive than stage 2 06-07s with the TD04.

Look for a lot more busted 3rd gears! :(

not with LGT gears, as said it should have due to the similar LGT motor:banana:

not with LGT gears, as said it should have due to the similar LGT motor:banana:
they also said the 07 box was revised, but they are exploding left and right:lol:

The new impreza WRX will please most people who buy it and it will sell far more than it ever has.

Saying it should handle like the MS3 is a mistake. The MS3 is a brutal ride, and far form mainstream. Subaru wants to take sales form the Mazda 3 and Volkwagon Golf. Granted the Subaru is more expensive, but if they can capture a portion of those people they will increase sales...

How? Why? You, and I believe Subaru, are confusing 2 different markets. The WRX shouldn't be mainstream, it should be like the MS3, a specialized Econo-sport car based on an economy car. The WRX is not going to steal buyers away from the $17k mazada 3, that's what the 2.5i is for "mainstream". And the MS3 is not competition for the STI, no econo at $34k.

I question if Subaru will actually see increased sales with this new blander/softer design. Maybe in the 2.5i class, but normal "mainstream" folks looking for a reasonably priced hatch/sedan aren't going to pay the $7k premium over the 2.5i for a WRX who's only benefit to the mainstream is turbo power.

At $25K "mainstream" buyers are going to purchase this:

The best-selling car in America remains vastly unchanged for 2008, but hybrid buyers will save $1,000 over the 2007 model. The Toyota Camry underwent a complete redesign for the 2007 model year, and the car has continued to dominate the midsize sedan market. A hybrid version will continue to be available for 2008 and will start $1,000 less than the ’07 model. The 2008 MSRP will be $25,200, not including a $620 destination charge. The 2008 gasoline-powered version sees a $100 price increase, which is a normal adjustment for year to year model changes that aren’t significant.

And will never even set foot in a Subaru dealer. Yes different sized cars, but people in the "mainstream" would consider a larger Toyota a much better deal than a smaller Subaru. Just my $0.02 :cool:

How? Why? You, and I believe Subaru, are confusing 2 different markets. The WRX shouldn't be mainstream, it should be like the MS3, a specialized Econo-sport car based on an economy car. The WRX is not going to steal buyers away from the $17k mazada 3, that's what the 2.5i is for "mainstream". And the MS3 is not competition for the STI, no econo at $34k.


Actually, the Mazda 3 is also the basis for the Volvo S40 that sells for well over $30K, since both share a platform. I have driven the Volvo extensively, during my business trips and let me tell you, you will not find anything "econo" about the ride or the handling, of that Volvo.;)

the whole point of the wrx was raw budget power, in a practical package was it not? it has been selling quite well as such correct? i also vote to remove WRX from this cars name and call it a GT

So it performs as well as the outgoing Impreza... but it has lost it's roots? Is the WRX not allowed to have a decent interior now? The amount of hp shouldn't be a factor about its roots since the JDM WRX hasn't increased it's power output in what, like 10 years.

Check out the C30 for a proper comparison - now what would you rather have?

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/motorshows/2006/detroit/production/03-large/volvo-c30-s.jpg

If the wrx is gone all soft, why not just get the volvo instead?
The reasons for choosing the subaru have just left the building.

(My friend who is in the market for a sporty ~25K car saw a picture of the new wrx, and ran to the volvo dealer screaming, begging them to give him a c30)

I'm normally a big subie supporter, but with the money subaru will loose on the new impreza, they will be lucky to be in business in a few years.

Check out the C30 for a proper comparison - now what would you rather have?

If the wrx is gone all soft, why not just get the volvo instead?
The reasons for choosing the subaru have just left the building.

(My friend who is in the market for a sporty ~25K car saw a picture of the new wrx, and ran to the volvo dealer screaming, begging them to give him a c30)

I'm normally a big subie supporter, but with the money subaru will loose on the new impreza, they will be lucky to be in business in a few years.

Because the C30 is slow and has little rear seat room. I figure those are good reasons.

i also vote to remove WRX from this cars name and call it a GT

I would vote to do the same too. The new car they call as the "WRX", should really be called the RS or the GT or something nice and innocuous, since that is the market they are targetting with this new abomination they call as the WRX.

Call the upcoming STi as the WRX-STI, so that the brandname "WRX" is attached to something that has connotations of true high-performance that will not be humiliated in a straight line, by the performance of a current generation V6 Camry or Honda Accord.

The 08's power would have passed muster in 2002 or 2003 but bringing out a 2008 WRX with engine performance that cannot match a family car like the Camry, is pitiable.:mad:

you all need to understand that the wrx is not targeted for us bunch of kids who want to modify cars for cheap.
The sti will be ALL THAT you all want, you just have to pay more for it now.
by now all the wrx fanboys have grown and should be able to afford the STI.
just look at it, it looks like a grandma's car. it couldn't be any more boring.

Subaru just doesn't care about us people who actually gave this
car its reputation :(
Subaru SUCKS!

Oh yea because the WRX was nothing before it came to the US... :rolleyes:

how can you say don't compair them, and then say they want to take some of the customers?:confused: :rolleyes:
btw i thought the MS3 was a pretty good ride

I believe he means they want to take Mazda 3 customers, not Mazda Speed 3 customers.

This thread is a retard-fest.. I can't believe that I expected more but I did.

The Volvo won't have the same sporty ride that the Subaru has. If anything, when the reviews come out you will be hearing much the same things as you heard about the WRX (body roll etc.) but in a slower and FWD car. Although I am holing out hope that their sport suspension (sport chassis or something) gives the Volvo an edge that it needs in the market. If the Volvo C30 was AWD, I probably wouldn't even be thinking about a WRX (all reliability and other pluses of of the WRX can't match the look of the new car and the quality of a volvo. Not to mention that six speed and I5 howl).


In terms of the Mazdaspeed 3. I think it just won itself a whole market until Mitsubishi comes out with the ralliart. I wouldn't say the ride is so bad, but the noise levels are pretty heady at points and the whole package feels a little more stiff and racer like. Not exactly the ideal daily driver, but exactly what the new WRX should have been aiming for.

This thread is a retard-fest.. I can't believe that I expected more but I did.

Yea I know... I don't know how Superglue does it... and some of these people commenting are over 30... really makes you wonder...

Yea I know... I don't know how Superglue does it... and some of these people commenting are over 30... really makes you wonder...

Just because some of us are over 30 doesn't mean we are old farts or immature by any means. I may be 34, but I'm a kid at heart...you'll see, someday you'll get there too....I feel no different than when I was 21. I just disagree and disappointed in which way the WRX is heading...the real truth will be Subaru sales...we will just have to wait and find out.

right on

I too am hoping that they would say that there is significant handling improvement so I'm a little disappointed.

After reading the articles, it seems that they (magazine reviewers) didn't really drive the card hard and so their opinion is based on a couple of quick spins around the block. Is it possible that Subaru only allowed them a gentle cruise and no flogging? Nobody mentioned "slalom", "test-track".. etc.




Did you not watch the MT video that showed a test driver flogging the car around the Streets of Willow Racetrack? He commented on how well the car handled; with neutral drifts, minimal push in some of the most challenging corners, and little-to-no turbo lag.

Just because some of us are over 30 doesn't mean we are old farts or immature by any means. I may be 34, but I'm a kid at heart...you'll see, someday you'll get there too....I feel no different than when I was 21. I just disagree and disappointed in which way the WRX is heading...the real truth will be Subaru sales...we will just have to wait and find out.

Well what I was refering was the just same posts we have been hearing over and over again. The whining and crying, I would think that someone in there 30s could would be able to voice their opinion a little better then that. You don't seem to be part of that crowd. But can we have a real discussion and understand that Subaru is a corporation with profit motives. The way some people talk you would think Nasioc bank rolled Subaru.

The way some people talk you would think Nasioc bank rolled Subaru.

Either that, or people here were under the impression that they had some kind of say in how the Impreza should look, drive, and feel. Turns out, Subaru didn't want to custom build a car for 10,000 whiney people with keyboards.

Subaru is under the impression that this new Impreza will actually sell more than the previous models on a global scale. Even if you had the sort of data to state otherwise, there's no reason to take the new car as a personal insult or act like Subaru abandoned you. Subaru doesn't owe us anything. They could go out of business next week and you would think people on here would be knocking on factory doors saying, "Excuse me, Subaru, I believe you still owe me a 2 door 350hp STI because I bought a used WRX once".

Constructive criticism is partly how this new car got here. There were genuine criticisms about rear seat room, trunk space, mileage, interior fit/finish. With that criticism and the newer market it looks like Subaru has addressed these issues. I don't remember people saying "The Impreza's rear passenger space makes me want to throw up in mouth". Serious critiques are appreciated by most people on here as I'm sure it is also appreciated by Subaru or any other product manufacturer.

The high strung emotional people are posting the same crap in every thread that references the new car. All these things have repeated numerous times in every "colorful" wording imaginable. I think it's time people start to calm down and think of new reasons to post instead of the same old; "That fugly turd needs to die because I threw up in my mouth and there's no aluminum Corola/Kia/Focus/Saturn looks like a Mazda I'm going to cry all the way to the Mitsu delership to trade in my agressive 2006 pignose"

Instead of people complaining that the new Impreza is unoriginal, they should think about that for their next unoriginal post. How about something with some substance and a little less angry 9th grader feel to it?

So it performs as well as the outgoing Impreza... but it has lost it's roots? Is the WRX not allowed to have a decent interior now? The amount of hp shouldn't be a factor about its roots since the JDM WRX hasn't increased it's power output in what, like 10 years.
by trying to turn it into a mainstream car with a 30price tag yes it has lost it's roots. and i thought the s-gt put out 250hp:rolleyes:

even the S-gt gets 250hp from the ej20
As a warm-up for the 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX coming to the U.S. this fall, Japan’s media and buff books have already been out in the home-market version of the car this week.

No, this isn’t exactly the car that Subaru will be shipping to the States. The model that America knows as WRX is badged S-GT in Japan and runs with a 2.0-liter flat-four turbo pumping out 250 brake horsepower. So, a smaller engine than America’s WRX 2.5-liter turbo that’s expected to generate around 225 bhp. But more power and of course that different badge, chosen by Subaru eggheads in Japan to put more distance between cooking Imprezas and the full-on, 300 bhp-plus WRX STi coming this fall

thats for whoever said the jdm wrx has been putting out the same numbers for 10 years

I believe he means they want to take Mazda 3 customers, not Mazda Speed 3 customers.

you can't compare a base mazda3 to a WRX, come on:rolleyes:

Well what I was referring was the just same posts we have been hearing over and over again. The whining and crying, I would think that someone in there 30s could would be able to voice their opinion a little better then that. You don't seem to be part of that crowd. But can we have a real discussion and understand that Subaru is a corporation with profit motives. The way some people talk you would think Nasioc bank rolled Subaru.


I think for the most part, the people on NASIOC are the real die-hard suby fans. I'm sure the people at Subaru are looking at this site daily...they want as much feed back as possible. There is alot of negative and some positive from what I've read. Subaru sure doesn't want to leave there real fans left in the dust. I will always be a fan but am clearly not impressed with what they just produced. Yes the inside is very nice, I do like the new gauges and the fancy nav system, but all this comes with a much higher price...and honestly, a plush interior and Rally X really don't belong together. I was hoping this time the new WRX would be as sharp as it's name. When they said " a legend reborn"...I was expecting aggressive original lines, possibly a rubberized floor, get rid of those crappy RE-92's, tow-hitch standard at least some more muscle under the hood. In the past, the WRX attracted young adventurous males...except for the exception of subi-gal. Will younger males be attracted to this car? From what I've read so far...No...theres nothing sporty about it besides it's name. Will girls be attracted to the new WRX...maybe, but do they really care if there car has a turbo? can do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds?..most women, in my opinion, will pick the much cheaper Toyota Matrix, Mazda 3 or Ford focus...they will most likely not consider the WRX. Old people 50+?..I don't think so. The only demo-graph I possibly see is the middle aged business man that wants a performance car that is cheaper than 30k and have the luxury's of a Lexus. But when you think about this, there are too many great sedans to choose from; Maxima, Camry, Accord....good thing the Suby has the all wheel drive factor. The anticipation of "the legend reborn" .......I pictured in my head the same sales pitch Nissan did with the x-terra ...the everywhere, do-all, performance vehicle. Instead the making the new model more adventurous, it's clearly reserved almost neutral. Some girly-girl back at main head quarters thought WRX stood for Women's Rally X....( No offense Subi-gal...we all love you.):banana:

A six speed and more power.

You want the basic car to weigh 200 lbs more?

You want the basic car to weigh 200 lbs more?
if it comes with a 6mt and more power i doubt anyonw would cry over 200lbs.

Because the C30 is slow and has little rear seat room. I figure those are good reasons.

The C30 also has the lower-end Haldex AWD. ie: it drives like a FWD.

if it comes with a 6mt and more power i doubt anyonw would cry over 200lbs.

I see otherwise: cries of "bloated" and "pork" etc would reverberate from all corners of the 'net. I'd rather save the 200 lbs .. which benefits handling and breaking. More power would only net equiviliant acceleration to the lighter, nimbler version we've been delivered.

I don't care if the weight goes up a little. Where are you pulling out this 200 LB figure anyhow? If they could throw on a little more boost, dump in a six speed manual so that I could cruise in an overdrive gear on the highway, and get rid of some of the body roll I saw in the edmunds shot (which may or may not be as bad as it looked from that angle) and up the weight by 100 lbs then I think a lot of people on this forum would be really happy. How much more weight is a revised turbo and a little more boost really going to produce?

I don't even care about the power so much as that extra cruising gear. That would make the car more marketable with a better highway MPG!


And when is Subiesport going to put up their review now that the embargo is broken?? I have actually been looking forward to what you guys thought, as opposed to "just the facts."

even the S-gt gets 250hp from the ej20


thats for whoever said the jdm wrx has been putting out the same numbers for 10 years

The 1st-gen JDM WRX in 1992 put out 240ps. Since then the output has ranged from 220-280ps.

^^^^^^

even the S-gt gets 250hp from the ej20


thats for whoever said the jdm wrx has been putting out the same numbers for 10 years

Damn, beat me to it!

And when is Subiesport going to put up their review now that the embargo is broken?? I have actually been looking forward to what you guys thought, as opposed to "just the facts."

Subaru changed the embargo deadline a few days ago and, unfortunately, we're in the middle of a couple big projects that we can't drop to get the review finalized early. Our review will be up next week.

The existing 5th gear is an overdrive gear. 0.738:1 IIRC

I'm surprised no one else noticed this.... well, not really surprised. :p

Basic warranty 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Powertrain warranty 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Roadside assistance 3 yrs/36,000 miles

It used to be 60,000 miles for powertrain. Gives you a warm and fuzzy that Subaru really wants to back this model up with a good warranty. :rolleyes:

Im willing to bet is a missprint, just like the front engine FWD is. They didnt change the warranty on any of the other MY08 cars.

I think for the most part, the people on NASIOC are the real die-hard suby fans. I'm sure the people at Subaru are looking at this site daily...they want as much feed back as possible. There is alot of negative and some positive from what I've read. Subaru sure doesn't want to leave there real fans left in the dust. I will always be a fan but am clearly not impressed with what they just produced. Yes the inside is very nice, I do like the new gauges and the fancy nav system, but all this comes with a much higher price...and honestly, a plush interior and Rally X really don't belong together. I was hoping this time the new WRX would be as sharp as it's name. When they said " a legend reborn"...I was expecting aggressive original lines, possibly a rubberized floor, get rid of those crappy RE-92's, tow-hitch standard at least some more muscle under the hood. In the past, the WRX attracted young adventurous males...except for the exception of subi-gal. Will younger males be attracted to this car? From what I've read so far...No...theres nothing sporty about it besides it's name. Will girls be attracted to the new WRX...maybe, but do they really care if there car has a turbo? can do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds?..most women, in my opinion, will pick the much cheaper Toyota Matrix, Mazda 3 or Ford focus...they will most likely not consider the WRX. Old people 50+?..I don't think so. The only demo-graph I possibly see is the middle aged business man that wants a performance car that is cheaper than 30k and have the luxury's of a Lexus. But when you think about this, there are too many great sedans to choose from; Maxima, Camry, Accord....good thing the Suby has the all wheel drive factor. The anticipation of "the legend reborn" .......I pictured in my head the same sales pitch Nissan did with the x-terra ...the everywhere, do-all, performance vehicle. Instead the making the new model more adventurous, it's clearly reserved almost neutral. Some girly-girl back at main head quarters thought WRX stood for Women's Rally X....( No offense Subi-gal...we all love you.):banana:

1) Don't speak for everyone else as a car buyer. Car prefrences differ vastly between individuals. Don't assume you know who will buy what.

2) The Maxima, Camry, Accord are in a total different class and are built as familly haulers. Those cars aren't even comparable to a smaller and much more agile WRX. The WRX is still a niche car and the new body style simply tries to widen that niche.

3) The Xttera's marketing scheme as an SUV has nothing to do with the WRX either. Cars aren't Lego picese that can be swapped or substituted just to prove a point.

4) As far as the car being advertised..... this is Subaru of America we're talking about. The Impreza has never been an advertising focal point. The last add I remember for the 06/07 model was something about AWD and 5 star crash safety. Not too thrilling.

I believe he means they want to take Mazda 3 customers, not Mazda Speed 3 customers.

Possibly. I mean, that is exactly what he said.

For those of you that think the MS3 and WRX are meant to be direct competitors: :rolleyes:

Drive an MS3 and get back to us if you still think a WRX should be anything like that. BTW: I've still only seen 1 MS3.. if they're so damn awesome in the eyes of subaru folks, where the hell are they? I see '07 WRXs every day.

For those of you that think the MS3 and WRX are meant to be direct competitors: :rolleyes:Why wouldn't they be? one's AWD, and one has a stiffer suspension, which are pretty minor differences in considering what people cross-shop these days. They both are 5 door turbo economy cars.

Possibly. I mean, that is exactly what he said.

For those of you that think the MS3 and WRX are meant to be direct competitors: :rolleyes:

Drive an MS3 and get back to us if you still think a WRX should be anything like that. BTW: I've still only seen 1 MS3.. if they're so damn awesome in the eyes of subaru folks, where the hell are they? I see '07 WRXs every day.

My coworker just got a black MS3 and it's sexy. I'd have cross shopped my 06 WRX against the sedan SI, new GTI and MS3 IF they all were already on the market in December of 2005. My gut feeling tells me I'd have ended up with the MS3 because it costs almost the least yet smokes all the other cars in a roll.

I only had the SRT4 to look at (and even could have gotten it at invoice through a friend) but I didn't want another Neon (I had a 99 R/T before the WRX). I think all of these cars are in the same market, period. The STI and Evo are obviously a class above these cars.

Why wouldn't they be? one's AWD, and one has a stiffer suspension, which are pretty minor differences in considering what people cross-shop these days. They both are 5 door turbo economy cars.

What if someone is looking for AWD?

I would of bought the MS3 the day it came out had I not wanted AWD.

I am pretty much sold on the 08 WRX. The reviews are about what I expected. The MS3 is the only other car I am considering at this point in time, but FWD with that much power...I don't know. I have driven it and while the engine is amazing I am really tired of the shortcomings of FWD cars. Launching and accelerating through corners is always an issue when there is any sort of sand or gravel on the road...or of course rain! With the new WRX's better and quieter interior and materials, optional grille and body kit...should be good to go with some nice bronze wheels. Some new springs sound like all you need to get the suspension back on track. Besides the boring front end I think the car is looking good...I mean the sedan of course. I hate the hatch's rear end.

Is it worth waiting for the 1-series? Will the 128i be a good contender? An optioned 135i will compete with the STi which is too expensive for me. Also I have a feeling everyone is going to buy those cars and they will be a dime a dozen on the road.

The Ralliart Lancer is also coming, which will also be AWD 2.0 Turbo to compete with the standard WRX, but anyone know when that will actually come out?

Possibly. I mean, that is exactly what he said.

For those of you that think the MS3 and WRX are meant to be direct competitors: :rolleyes:

Drive an MS3 and get back to us if you still think a WRX should be anything like that. BTW: I've still only seen 1 MS3.. if they're so damn awesome in the eyes of subaru folks, where the hell are they? I see '07 WRXs every day.

They're in limited production runs

Whats with the hatchback STI????? Its soo ugly....

What if someone is looking for AWD?

I would of bought the MS3 the day it came out had I not wanted AWD.Agreed, that's the big reason I bought one as well. But not everyone needs AWD, and the MS3 is a good option, or the SRT-4. Frankly, I would have considered a GTO, or a charger if I was looking for RWD. GTI maybe.

Doesn't the 08 WRX have a detuned version of the Legacy GT's engine? If that is the case, won't Cobb Stage 1 be able to equal Legacy GT Stage 1 at 290 hp??

http://www.cobbtuning.com/images_products/3133.jpg

Doesn't the 08 WRX have a detuned version of the Legacy GT's engine? If that is the case, won't Cobb Stage 1 be able to equal Legacy GT Stage 1 at 290 hp??

http://www.cobbtuning.com/images_products/3133.jpg

Same engine, different turbo (the USDM LGT uses the IHI VF40, the 2008 WRX has a revised version of the Mitsubishi TD04 that was on the 2002-2007 USDM WRX)

Same engine, different turbo (the USDM LGT uses the IHI VF40, the 2008 WRX has a revised version of the Mitsubishi TD04 that was on the 2002-2007 USDM WRX)

Still not sure why they bothered with a reconfigured TD04 instead of the VF40. I'm thinking either the TD04 costs less or it somehow pevents the WRX from matching the LGT... or a little of both?

I can see a couple of positives of the new 2008. First, if you look at the overall product line, Subaru can use a hatch. Second, the new design is more WAF friendly, you might even be able to get one to sit in it. My young married neighbors have a lust for the WRX when they see mine, but if they say anything near the wife, you hear an immediate NO!

Still not sure why they bothered with a reconfigured TD04 instead of the VF40. I'm thinking either the TD04 costs less or it somehow pevents the WRX from matching the LGT... or a little of both?

For both of those reasons, plus a third:

The TD04 is quick to spool (minimal lag, like the V-dubs), and won't generate enought top-end power to frighten the panties off the secretaries who'll be buying this car.:lol:

IMO, since the new car is intended to appeal to a wider swath of the car-buying population, Subaru REALLY missed the boat by not offering the Legacy's 5AT in the new WRX -- it would've helped performance, fuel economy, and would've been a nice feature to point at on the window sticker.

Dumb move, Subaru.:rolleyes:

Subaru REALLY missed the boat by not offering the Legacy's 5AT in the new WRX -- it would've helped performance, fuel economy, and would've been a nice feature to point at on the window sticker.

Dumb move, Subaru.:rolleyes:

I agree completely. A 5EAT with Sportshift would have been a major needle-mover when it came to the new WRX. For a car that touches $30K, it was egregious to exclude such a feature that was already available off-the-shelf from the Subaru parts-bin. Re-introducing a 4EAT in the 08 WRX, when even $14k Honda Fits come a 5EAT with sportshift, was silly to say the least. I pointed this out to the Subaru Factory reps (Japanese) who were present at the NY auto show, and told them that they really dropped the ball on this one.

My dealer says he should have a 2.5i sedan and a WRX hatch sometime the first week of August. He is supposed to call me when they come in to test drive the hatch. I will report back with my findings.

Drive an MS3 and get back to us if you still think a WRX should be anything like that.

better suspension, less understeer, better interior, better mpg, better looking, yeah why the hell not?

It almost makes sense that this is the direction Subaru would go IMO. There's only so many renditions of the same ol' same ol' that can be played out. The car is great as is, but certain risks must be taken to ensure the advancement of the Brand as a whole. Our North American cars have always been detuned, "more luxurious" versions of their J-market counterparts and in this case, we are once again "stuck" with the least desirable models. The shiny "chrysler" grill is a US market only thing, as is the continuation of the WRX nameplate, among many other things I'm sure.

The fact is, we are stuck with whatever we get, just as all of us GC/GM 2.5RS owners were stuck with our "slow" RS's back in the day. Modified versions of the new WRX will pop up that will blow our minds, I'm sure. I dislike it as much as the next guy, but I disliked the 06/07 facelift alot...for a little while. Now, not only do I not have a problem with it, but an 06/07 STi in that pure white color is one of the most beautiful vehicles I have ever seen to date.

It is up to us to make the cars the way we want them to be, because we are stuck with the US-market-only Models. If you truly love Subaru's, you will either hold on to your old one's, or take the plunge and try to build a new one into the car you envision it should be.

I could gripe all day about the smaller TMIC, the bland styling, the plasticky intake manifold, etc etc. But the fact is that the WRX makes the same power as the old one even with all those things. And it comes with LGT-style brakes, which are pretty cool IMO (sure the calipers aren't red, but the discs are massive!).

What I'm trying to say is, people are going to buy the car. Maybe not the same type of people who were buying it in the past, but people will buy it. Thats what is most important to Subaru, because they must make money. If you are expecting your beloved Subaru Brand to be an enthusiast loyal manufacturer til the bitter end, you are going to be severely dissapointed. They are out to make money. The rally heritage of the WRX is something that exists only in Japan (where the car's were actually available) and in the hearts/minds of enthusiasts here in the US.

The shiny "chrysler" grill is a US market only think,

Since when?

It almost makes sense that this is the direction Subaru would go IMO. There's only so many renditions of the same ol' same ol' that can be played out. The car is great as is, but certain risks must be taken to ensure the advancement of the Brand as a whole. Our North American cars have always been detuned, "more luxurious" versions of their J-market counterparts and in this case, we are once again "stuck" with the least desirable models. The shiny "chrysler" grill is a US market only thing, as is the continuation of the WRX nameplate, among many other things I'm sure.

The fact is, we are stuck with whatever we get, just as all of us GC/GM 2.5RS owners were stuck with our "slow" RS's back in the day. Modified versions of the new WRX will pop up that will blow our minds, I'm sure. I dislike it as much as the next guy, but I disliked the 06/07 facelift alot...for a little while. Now, not only do I not have a problem with it, but an 06/07 STi in that pure white color is one of the most beautiful vehicles I have ever seen to date.

It is up to us to make the cars the way we want them to be, because we are stuck with the US-market-only Models. If you truly love Subaru's, you will either hold on to your old one's, or take the plunge and try to build a new one into the car you envision it should be.

I could gripe all day about the smaller TMIC, the bland styling, the plasticky intake manifold, etc etc. But the fact is that the WRX makes the same power as the old one even with all those things. And it comes with LGT-style brakes, which are pretty cool IMO (sure the calipers aren't red, but the discs are massive!).

What I'm trying to say is, people are going to buy the car. Maybe not the same type of people who were buying it in the past, but people will buy it. Thats what is most important to Subaru, because they must make money. If you are expecting your beloved Subaru Brand to be an enthusiast loyal manufacturer til the bitter end, you are going to be severely dissapointed. They are out to make money. The rally heritage of the WRX is something that exists only in Japan (where the car's were actually available) and in the hearts/minds of enthusiasts here in the US.

Somebody needs to do their homework more (grille, brakes).

The rally heritage of the WRX is something that exists only in Japan (where the car's were actually available) and in the hearts/minds of enthusiasts here in the US.

:huh:
The STI is huge in England, as well as most of Europe, and has been for some time. The British have been nuts for the WRX. It consisted of over 60% of overall Impreza sales over there for this last bodystyle.

Somebody needs to do their homework more (grille, brakes).

According to the Motor Trend review, they have Legacy GT level brakes. Not LGT brakes themselves, but of comparable quality/size. I'm just basing my opinions off of the article in question, which is what this thread is about.
As for the grill, the S-GT pics I have seen as well as the pictures of the black dealer Demo vehicle with the Volk wheels released not too long ago all seem (to me) to have color keyed grills, not those massive chrome monstrosities.

:huh:
The STI is huge in England, as well as most of Europe, and has been for some time. The British have been nuts for the WRX. It consisted of over 60% of overall Impreza sales over there for this last bodystyle.

And yes, people in Europe are crazy about these cars as well, it was my fault for overlooking that. Japan/Europe/Australia all got the "better" cars while the US was stuck with the detuned versions. My bad!

According to the Motor Trend review, they have Legacy GT level brakes. Not LGT brakes themselves, but of comparable quality/size. I'm just basing my opinions off of the article in question, which is what this thread is about.The brakes are identical to those on the current Outback XT. They're not as large as the LGT brakes, unfortunately. The LGT thing started as a very hopeful rumor before the part numbers were actually compared.
As for the grill, the S-GT pics I have seen as well as the pictures of the black dealer Demo vehicle with the Volk wheels released not too long ago all seem (to me) to have color keyed grills, not those massive chrome monstrosities.The chrome grille is standard everywhere from what we've seen. The optional grille is also optional everywhere from what we've seen. It's win-win.

As for griping about the intercooler and manifold, you'd be a fool to do so. Both are more efficient at what they do than the previous parts.

The brakes are identical to those on the current Outback XT. They're not as large as the LGT brakes, unfortunately. The LGT thing started as a very hopeful rumor before the part numbers were actually compared.
The chrome grille is standard everywhere from what we've seen. The optional grille is also optional everywhere from what we've seen. It's win-win.

Beaverboy, thanks for taking the time to explain those to impreza_GC8, I didn't feel like it. impreza_GC8, I'm sorry if what I said was taken the wrong way.

Regarding the grille, the Australian WRXs will come standard with the mesh grille that will be optional for the rest of us. I'm guessing that news was made public after Beaverboy's reply.

And yes, people in Europe are crazy about these cars as well, it was my fault for overlooking that. Japan/Europe/Australia all got the "better" cars while the US was stuck with the detuned versions. My bad!


I know that this is still true across the line for most of Subaru's high performance cars. In terms of the Impreza, however, I think there would be a strong argument for saying that the 2.5 in the STI and WRX is an equally good engine to what they get across the pond. Barring of course, the special editions, but those are also few and far between even over in the UK and I don't feel that they would do well with Subaru's price conscious following in the States.

The only thing that I find lacking in the States is that we do not get a stripped out, and thus faster, STI.

Chuck. I like the Subaru 2.5 liter motor too, but I don't think they came from God. Only Porsche flat sixes come from God......

Porsche flat sixes, BMW straight sixes, and Ferrari V12s.

And I am pretty sure that the Hyundai 2.7Ltr V6 in the Tiburon came from Satan himself.

Regarding the grille, the Australian WRXs will come standard with the mesh grille that will be optional for the rest of us. I'm guessing that news was made public after Beaverboy's reply.Well, before I'd read it, at least. :lol:

I can see a couple of positives of the new 2008. First, if you look at the overall product line, Subaru can use a hatch. Second, the new design is more WAF friendly, you might even be able to get one to sit in it. My young married neighbors have a lust for the WRX when they see mine, but if they say anything near the wife, you hear an immediate NO!

What's a WAF?

My wife was dubious about the WRX when I first said I wanted one, but now she loves it. :banana: :D

Chuck. I like the Subaru 2.5 liter motor too, but I don't think they came from God. Only Porsche flat sixes come from God......

and the Supra's inline 6 turbocharged motor and the LS7 would be good candidates.

What's a WAF?
My wife was dubious about the WRX when I first said I wanted one, but now she loves it. :banana: :D

WAF=Wife Acceptance Factor